"Checkmate": Will the light fighter be more successful than its "big brother" Su-57


Today in the Moscow region opens the international aerospace show, the 15th in a row since its foundation. At it, Russia will present several promising new products: civil liners MS-21 and Il-114-300, Mi-171A3, Ka-32A11M and Ansat-M helicopters, Su-57E, MiG-35, MiG-29 and Su-35 fighters, anti-aircraft missile systems SAM "Tor-E2", "Antey-4000" and S-350 "Vityaz", as well as other types of weapons and equipment... But the most anticipated event is undoubtedly the final discharge of the veil of secrecy over the newest domestic single-engine fighter, which should make everyone checkmate.


Here we should pay tribute to the PR specialists of Rostec, who managed to create an intrigue out of the blue and attract increased interest of the widest audience to the new product. The advertising campaign was played out like clockwork: first, a video appeared giving bold hints of who the manufacturer intends to sell the fighter to, then a series of "leaks" of photographs took place, where everyone could see the plane from different angles, hidden by a black cover hiding the most important elements of its design ... One thing was clear from the start - it was a single-engine fighter, which meant a breakthrough in the military aircraft industry of Russia, but there were still doubts whether it was a pure horizontal plane or a long-promised vertical take-off and landing aircraft. Apparently, the "vertical" will still have to wait, but I really want this business not to be postponed indefinitely. The possibilities of using VTOL aircraft in the Russian Navy are much wider than it is commonly believed, about which we are in detail told earlier. However, back to the "stripped" plane. Why did the developer call it a "fundamentally new" aircraft?

Let's put together everything that is currently known about the light multi-role fighter, which will officially be presented today at MAKS-2021. It seems that it has one AL-41F1 engine, therefore, dividing its thrust-to-weight ratio by two, we get an aircraft with a take-off weight in the region of 18 tons. It is also clear from its design that this fighter was created using stealth technologies. Apparently, this project is a further development of the fifth generation fighter program.

Despite the fact that work on the Su-57 began back in 2001, as of 2021, the serial production of the aircraft has not begun. This was due to both the overall complexity of the technical problem posed and the banal unavailability of a promising engine planned for installation on an aircraft ("Product 30"). Therefore, the first Su-57s so far fly with the weaker AL-41F1, which produces about 14,5 tons of thrust instead of the required 16-17 tons. Since the Su-57 is still not supplied for the own needs of the Russian Aerospace Forces, even the Indians, who highly respect Russian weapons, have abandoned its export version of the Su57E. For now, anyway. But can they be blamed for this?

In this context, the creation of a light version of the fifth generation fighter seems to be a very correct step:

At first, the entire appearance of the novelty literally screams that the aircraft is maximally unified with its older brother. And this is a big plus for him, since the mass production of units and assemblies tested on the Su-57 greatly simplifies the design and reduces the cost of a light fighter. Component unification is a great thing also in a real war, when some parts can be twisted and rearranged from a damaged aircraft to one that can still be quickly repaired.

Secondly, single-engine fighters are banally more in demand due to their relative cheapness compared to twin-engine ones. Each such aircraft costs its customer much less money both when purchasing and during subsequent operation. At the same time, a fighter with a single power plant is still able to perform its main function - "extermination" of enemy aircraft. Yes, he will give way to a heavy fighter, but it all depends on the buyer's requests and where and against whom he intends to use these aircraft. India, the United Arab Emirates, Vietnam and Argentina are symbolically shown as potential buyers in the Rostec commercial. These countries are clearly not going to fight against the United States and NATO as a whole. A light multi-role fighter, created with the use of stealth technologies, will be quite enough for them to ensure the security of their air borders. Practice shows that the line of Russian Su-30 fighters and their modifications is in great demand abroad, but the heavy Su-57 has not yet entered. However, India can still show real interest in the Su-57E when it is installed and tested in the Product 30 case.

Thirdly, the presence of a light multipurpose fighter in the Russian Aerospace Forces along with the heavy Su-57, designed to fight for air supremacy, will make their capabilities more balanced. Not all work only for export, right? It is possible that a carrier-based fighter will be created on its basis in the future, if the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation deems it appropriate to build a program for building domestic aircraft carriers.

With all the positive from this news it should be borne in mind that the Russian novelty will enter a market already densely occupied by several serious competitors. This is the United States with its F-16, and Sweden with the Gripen fighter, and the joint Sino-Pakistani JF-17 Thunder (Chengdu FC-1 Xiaolong). To give them not only check, but also checkmate, the Russian aircraft will have to try very hard.
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  1. Binder Offline Binder
    Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 15: 38
    -22%
    An irrepressible dreamer, this Mr. Marzhetsky! Eck it suffered again ... lol After all, he rightly notes that work on the Su-57 has been going on since the distant 2001, and the fighter has not been, and still is not. Why would a new product suddenly be more successful? Alas, gentlemen, patriots of Russia, a successful fifth-generation fighter cannot be created and put into service in a technologically backward country, which, moreover, is subject to sanctions, this is elementary, Watson! And who will buy this dubious product? One engine is undoubtedly cheaper than two, but knowing the low quality of Russian engines, serious doubts arise about the reliability of the aircraft. In short, there is no reason to open champagne yet. bully
    1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
      Just a cat (Bayun) 20 July 2021 15: 40
      +9
      and what prevents Israel from creating its own fighter? eggs? laughing
      1. bobba94 Offline bobba94
        bobba94 (Vladimir) 20 July 2021 19: 30
        -5
        Israel in the early 70s created its own fighter Kfir. Quite a combat fighter, speed for Mach 2, weapons, avionics ... everything is on the level. They took the Mirage as a model ... more than 200 aircraft were released. Then they decided to replace Kfir with American Fs, because they had to spend money on their own, and the Americans gave them for free (annual gratuitous military aid in the amount of about $ 5 billion).
      2. Binder Offline Binder
        Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 21: 20
        -9
        The Israelis created their own fighters, and very successfully - at one time, the "Kfirs" were in no way inferior to the most advanced foreign counterparts.
        1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
          kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 20 July 2021 22: 33
          +6
          Quote: Bindyuzhnik
          The Israelis created their own fighters, and very successfully - at one time, the "Kfirs" were in no way inferior to the most advanced foreign counterparts.

          You are, of course, "purebred", as you wrote, but before writing about Israel's aviation, you would have read something.
          5 years ago I wrote on VO about "Israeli" fighters "Kfir". laughing Blinded from what was, or rather from what was stolen, bought in the West.
          Tell us better about the "Israeli" Galil or how Lieutenant Uzi Gal, on his "knees and in pain", invented the Uzi from scratch. laughing
          Let's laugh! hi
          As it is not hot in Odessa, that is, in Israel. laughing
          1. Binder Offline Binder
            Binder (Miron) 21 July 2021 06: 40
            -9
            Quote: kapitan92
            5 years ago I wrote on VO about the "Israeli" fighters "Kfir"

            As for the stories of the creation of the Galil assault rifle and the Uzi submachine gun, they are known to any Israeli schoolchild, what is there to talk about?
            And so, yes, it's hot here, the usual summer weather.
            1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
              kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 21 July 2021 11: 17
              +2
              Quote: Bindyuzhnik
              As for the stories of the creation of the Galil assault rifle and the Uzi submachine gun, they are known to any Israeli schoolchild, what is there to talk about?

              There is nothing to talk about, that's right!
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      3. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
        sgrabik (Sergei) 20 July 2021 23: 06
        0
        And where are these "Kfirs" now, where did they go if they were so advanced, no one will ever curtail successful and promising projects, they will develop and improve, and just the opposite happened to you with your magnificent "Kfirs", why would it be, apparently they turned out to be far from so successful and advanced !!!
        1. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) 21 July 2021 06: 31
          -8
          "Kfirs and today" fly. The decommissioned vehicles after repair and modernization were sold to the Air Force of a number of Asian and Latin American states.
    2. Vladest Offline Vladest
      Vladest (Vladimir) 21 July 2021 17: 16
      -4
      Quote: Just Cat
      and what prevents Israel from creating its own fighter? eggs?

      Is this really necessary? Justify the need for everyone to create their own aircraft.
      1. Alexndr p Offline Alexndr p
        Alexndr p (Alexander) 22 July 2021 12: 15
        0
        you're laughing? justify to whom? in front of you?
        it's the same as trying to explain something to a monkey or a hedgehog.

        Only a Satonian or a Ukrainian can ask - why do we need to build airplanes? we can coolly fold sawdust pellets and okay
  2. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
    sgrabik (Sergei) 20 July 2021 17: 14
    +5
    Enough to grind this nonsense, you can continue to consider Russia backward as much as you like, you are clearly stuck in the stereotypes of the 90s and are once again trying to pass off what you wish for reality, you better remember how much time it took the United States to design, create prototypes and serial production all its 198 Raptors F-22, or maybe Israel has its own highly developed aerospace industry, and there is no need to drag the production of UAVs here, this is a completely different direction, which has little to do with manned aviation and astronautics !!!
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 21: 13
      -7
      Quote: sgrabik
      maybe Israel has its own highly developed aerospace industry

      It exists and works successfully. But no less important, in my opinion, that Israeli aircraft manufacturers do not demonstrate to the head of state a model of a non-existent fighter, presenting it as an outstanding achievement. The situation is as if someone showed an inflatable doll and said at the same time: "Look what a beautiful friend I have!" lol
  3. Sergey-54 Online Sergey-54
    Sergey-54 (Sergei) 20 July 2021 17: 38
    0
    Well, they imposed the sanctions, let them sniff.
  4. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
    Pishenkov (Alexey) 20 July 2021 21: 23
    +3
    Alas, gentlemen, patriots of Russia, a successful fifth-generation fighter cannot be created and put into service in a technologically backward country, which, moreover, is subject to sanctions, this is elementary,

    - Miron, having written this phrase, you apparently did not even understand what you actually wrote. But the praise is there.
    If the Russian Federation is a technologically backward country, then which one is it developed? There are only two states in the world that are able to produce such equipment accurately and one presumably (PRC). One of them - the Russian Federation, as you noticed, is just under sanctions, but even in this state it produces fifth generation fighters + the entire line of civil aviation. Under the sanctions, I repeat. There are only two countries capable of doing this in the world, one of them is just the world hegemon, imposing all these sanctions. so who is it about with "technological backwardness"? Then a technologically advanced country, in your opinion, there is only one left in the world. And for some reason she is somehow strongly concerned about our "backward" defense achievements, many of which are not yet available to them. Lagged behind, you see ... technologically. lol
    I am not ready to judge the quality and abilities of the Russian 5th generation - I have no data. But for some reason, the F-16 and Gripen mentioned by Mr. Marzhetsky do not fit into competitors of any 5th generation fighter at all - the class is not the same, the age is already a couple of decades, and there are many questions about reliability - from 10 Gripen in the Czech Air Force, for example , only 4 or five are constantly in a combat state, and half are always in some kind of repair.
    so if you are writing, do not write blatant nonsense - it looks stupid. I hope at least you know your horses better than aircraft. wink Stay with them
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 22: 03
      -10%
      you probably didn’t even understand what you actually wrote.

      But where can we, sirim, understand ... bully

      There are only two states in the world that are able to produce such equipment accurately and one presumably

      In the world today, only one state is able to produce fifth generation fighters. In the Russian Federation, only exhibition samples are produced, in the PRC, despite outright plagiarism and theft of other people's developments, they have not yet achieved anything in this direction. Only the Americans have the full range of opportunities for the successful production of fifth-generation fighters - scientific and design teams, high-tech industries and qualified personnel, financial resources and political will. All others lack any of these qualities.

      Then a technologically advanced country, in your opinion, there is only one left in the world. And for some reason she is somehow strongly concerned about our "backward" defense achievements, many of which are not yet available to them.

      Only primitive propaganda cartoons are inaccessible to Americans. laughing
      1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
        kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 20 July 2021 22: 36
        +5
        Quote: Bindyuzhnik
        Only primitive propaganda cartoons are inaccessible to Americans.

        Well yes! Either they sculpted these cartoons about SDI like cakes, even scared Gorbach! fellow
      2. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
        Pishenkov (Alexey) 20 July 2021 22: 59
        +5
        Oh well. Feed the horses, horse breeder. Remove the dung there, smooth out the fur, pick the dirt out of the horseshoes ... Rejoice at least for the Americans - they won't be happy for you. And accept the fact that after a fairly long decline, the Russian Empire is returning to duty. Once again, to spite everyone. Incidentally, this is the only empire that has survived to this day, with a real imperial potential and a real imperial power.
        And reassure yourself that of the two so technologically advanced countries that they can produce 5th generation fighters and the entire civilian air line, the Russian Federation seems to be the most backward. wink
        True, under sanctions, as you were pleased to note, and with 10 times less funds for defense, but with all this with a commensurate combat potential, so that the most technologically advanced power in the world would sit quietly and not really rock the boat.

        Yes, by the way, it is interesting, but with a commensurate Russian budget and with similar sanctions, the United States will be able to create at least something similar, or will they return to the proven designs of the Wright brothers? ..
        1. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 23: 45
          -9
          Quote: Pyshenkov
          Feed the horses, horse breeder. Remove the manure there, smooth out the fur, pick out the dirt from the horseshoes ...

          Somehow I'll decide what to do myself fool

          Quote: Pyshenkov
          The Russian Empire is returning to service.

          The Russian Empire ended in February 1917. You should at least know this fact. laughing

          Quote: Pyshenkov
          but with a commensurate Russian budget and with similar sanctions

          The United States simply cannot have a budget commensurate with the Russian budget - Americans, like a Russian, will not be able to sit on treasures and be poor. And in general, tie up with this primitive demagoguery.
      3. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
        kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 21 July 2021 11: 31
        +5
        Quote: Bindyuzhnik
        in the PRC, despite outright plagiarism and theft of other people's developments, they have not yet achieved anything in this direction.

        Myron! Don't be dumber than you are! I repeat, study mat more. part, before sitting down to his "patriotic" writings.

        The design of the Kfir aircraft began with a covert operation by the Mossad. By recruiting Alfred Frauenknecht, a Swiss engineer with access to the technical documentation of the French Mirage III fighter, Mossad agents got their hands on the complete documentation and took it to Israel, where it was used by IAI to develop the Kfir.

        Why are Jews better than Chinese?

        IAI's task was to find an engine to replace the French Atar 09. There were two options - General Electric J79 and Rolls-Royce Spey. The J79 was chosen because it was used on the American McDonnell Douglas F-1969 Phantom II fighters purchased by Israel in 4, along with the license to manufacture the J79 in Israel.

        There will be time, I will inform you how Uziel "invented" his automatic machine on a "stool from scratch". laughing
        1. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) 21 July 2021 13: 03
          -5
          Quote: kapitan92
          There will be time, I will inform you how Uziel "invented" his automatic machine on a "stool from scratch".

          Inform your like-minded people better - they may believe. And at the same time, inform them about the coolest brand of the times of the USSR - the Ugo Schmeisser machine. M.T. Kalashnikov. yes
          1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
            kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 21 July 2021 13: 19
            +1
            Quote: Bindyuzhnik
            Inform your like-minded people better - they may believe.

            You surprise me more and more with your limitations! Although, what am I talking about !?
            1. Binder Offline Binder
              Binder (Miron) 21 July 2021 13: 45
              -5
              Indeed, what about? wassat
    2. After 3D Element (After 3D Element) 20 July 2021 23: 21
      -6
      Rogozin recently gave a good answer about the development of the Russian Federation, who said that due to the sanctions, one specific microcircuit is not enough for the Russian Federation to overtake the United States in terms of the number of commercial launches. If it is not possible to make microcircuits for its astronautics in the Russian Federation, then the Russian Federation is not such a developed country, is it? Or does it not look patriotic? It's probably better to write and say that we can do everything, except for this and that?))))
      1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
        Pishenkov (Alexey) 20 July 2021 23: 31
        +6
        ... and without exception there is no such and such developed at all. The Japanese and Germans, for example, make good TVs and cars. It seems and developed. And the planes, if on their own, are generally completely "with the exception". Microcircuits, by the way, are also "with the exception", and they are not alone. Do you think the Americans are so worried about Taiwan that they are already ready to fight China? Are they worried about the democracy there?
        No, this is their koshcheevo egg with a needle inside - they also have an "exception" there and the production of, as it were, American chips ... Bang Taiwan, and in the States in general 80% of everything will not fly anywhere else and will not go, and also no one she will not call anyone, write an email and join her favorite social network ...
  5. After 3D Element (After 3D Element) 20 July 2021 23: 13
    -7
    I agree to all 100! The Vostochny cosmodrome has not been completed for 7 years already, the old and unpromising Angara cannot be brought to mind, but here you have a new fighter
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 23: 49
      -10%
      They traditionally hide me here when I write that in a country where they cannot make a decent electric kettle on their own, a fifth-generation fighter, all the more, cannot be produced. It would seem - a simple truth, but they will not enter in any way ...
      1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
        sgrabik (Sergei) 21 July 2021 12: 12
        +2
        Miron, well, this is purely primitive demagoguery on your part, the level of industrial development is, of course, measured not by teapots, but by the ability to create and produce what others cannot do, no country in the world produces everything, without exception, from its components, but all the most important, strategic directions of industry and especially the defense industry are always a priority for any developed country, but everything that concerns teapots, irons and other necessary household appliances, it is quite successfully produced under license on the territory of Russia.
        1. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) 21 July 2021 12: 58
          -4
          After all, the key point here is

          Quote: sgrabik
          produced under license on the territory of Russia.

          laughing laughing laughing
          1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
            sgrabik (Sergei) 21 July 2021 16: 03
            +1
            This is how the whole world lives and we are no exception to the general rules.
          2. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
            kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 21 July 2021 22: 30
            0
            After all, the key point here is

            produced under license on the territory of Russia.

            laughing laughing
            Galil, also Galil (Hebrew גליל, English Galil) is an Israeli assault rifle developed by designer Israel Galili (nee Israel Balashnikov) based on the Finnish Valmet Rk 62 assault rifle, which in turn is a variant of the Kalashnikov assault rifle.

            In terms of internal structure, Galil is similar to the Kalashnikov assault rifle, except for the use of a different cartridge.

            IAI's task was to find an engine to replace the French Atar 09. There were two options - General Electric J79 and Rolls-Royce Spey. The J79 was chosen because it was used on the American McDonnell Douglas F-1969 Phantom II fighters purchased by Israel in 4, along with the license to manufacture the J79 in Israel.

            With dvigun I repeat, since you did not understand, but it does not surprise me. laughing
            1. Binder Offline Binder
              Binder (Miron) 21 July 2021 23: 00
              -5
              You, my dear, are completely in vain trying to prove something to me, quoting common truths from Wiki. You will not pass for an intellectual, even the fact that I have already forgotten to you and will not recognize until the end of my days. So live regularly, do all the physiological tasks on time, and find yourself someone else as a listener. I wish you good health! hi
              1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
                kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 21 July 2021 23: 21
                +3
                Quote: Bindyuzhnik
                You darling

                Firstly, I do not consider myself gay, so this is an appeal to myself or my friends, you have a lot of them.

                Quote: Bindyuzhnik
                completely in vain are you trying to prove something to me, quoting common truths from Wiki.

                Finally, we got it. From the wiki, I am quoting only for you, because knowledgeable and literate people know how to use the Internet before being clever on the forums.

                Quote: Bindyuzhnik
                So live regularly

                Thank you. I am a pensioner, but I do it regularly! Which is what I wish for you.

                Quote: Bindyuzhnik
                find yourself someone else as a listener.

                I would be glad, but here it is the "bindyuzhniki", then the "owners", then your colleagues are trolls, so we can only dream of peace. And where, besides the Russian forum, you will learn the truth about yourself.

                Quote: Bindyuzhnik
                I wish you hello!

                Have a nice one you too! hi
                1. Binder Offline Binder
                  Binder (Miron) 22 July 2021 14: 16
                  -3
                  To whom you refer yourself is your business, I can only note that you definitely do not suffer from an excess of education. yes The address "darling" was very common in Russia in the 19th century, and it did not carry the slightest hint of unconventional orientation at all. Usually, this was addressed to a male person standing lower on the social ladder, for example, a clerk in a shop, a janitor, a cabman, etc. Forgive me, but you do not pull on a higher position in society. hi
                  1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
                    kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 23 July 2021 00: 17
                    +2
                    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
                    To whom you refer yourself is your business, I can only note that you definitely do not suffer from an excess of education. The address "darling" was very common in Russia in the 19th century, and it did not carry the slightest hint of unconventional orientation at all.

                    You try to appear Jewish, but you will not "reach" them, and your children will not "reach".
                    This is not an insult, it is, alas, a fact. Poor Israel, the glorious sons of Israel fought and died for you, and now you have received as a "gift" - "the queen gave birth in the night, either a son or a daughter."
                    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
                      Marzhecki (Sergei) 23 July 2021 08: 29
                      +3
                      Such bandits only defame the Jewish people. In the place of the Israeli authorities, I would take the passport from such characters and send them to their historical homeland, to Ukraine
      2. magma Offline magma
        magma (Tatyana) 22 July 2021 06: 35
        +2
        Quote: Bindyuzhnik
        ... in a country where they are unable to make a decent electric kettle on their own, a fifth generation fighter will not be able to produce any more.

        The kettles are yours. Why take away a piece of bread from you. smile
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 20 July 2021 15: 43
    -10%
    More successful SU57? Which is still a single copy? And which VVP offered even the killer Endogan?
    Easily.
    Sharing an unkilled bear is the very thing.
  • Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 15: 53
    -13%
    Time will tell. This is how I would like, of course, to create an aircraft in Russia that is not inferior in characteristics to the F-35.
    1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
      Just a cat (Bayun) 20 July 2021 15: 55
      +9
      Russian planes also have to kill pilots and fall apart when afterburner? laughing
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 15: 58
        -11%
        Russian planes also have to kill pilots and fall apart when afterburner?

        No, they must be produced in the same quantities and show the same results of test flights and combat use.

        And they are already coping with "falling apart" - the first fallen serial Su-57 will confirm.
        1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
          sgrabik (Sergei) 20 July 2021 17: 21
          +5
          Well, if it comes to that, then the F-22 and even more so the F-35 have already fallen quite enough times, so, to put it mildly, there is no need to show double standards in this matter.
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 17: 25
            -6
            Well, if it comes to that, then the F-22 and even more so the F-35 have already fallen quite enough times

            They fell, yes. But not the first production aircraft.
            1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
              sgrabik (Sergei) 20 July 2021 23: 29
              +1
              It is better to let the first aircraft in the experimental batch fall, and in the stage of further refinement, our designers and engineers will identify and eliminate all its shortcomings, than they will then begin to fall almost every month, like the F-35.
              1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 23: 40
                -4
                than they will then begin to fall almost every month, like the F-35.

                The F-35 does not fall every month. For 9 years of combat operation, there were 11 emergencies with different outcomes. And this despite the fact that more than 600 copies have already been delivered, and they fly very actively. Naturally, the more aircraft are produced and the more they fly, the more accidents will occur to them.

                I once wrote how many accidents occurred with the MiG-31 and Su-27 during the same period of time - no less.
              2. Cyril Offline Cyril
                Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 23: 41
                -5
                It is better to let the first aircraft in the experimental batch fall, and during the fine-tuning stage, our designers and engineers will identify and eliminate all its shortcomings,

                Practice shows that in Russia / the USSR, planes from "combatant" parties, and not just inexperienced ones, have often (and are) falling. Although, according to your logic, this should not be.
                1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
                  sgrabik (Sergei) 20 July 2021 23: 57
                  0
                  According to statistics, the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces fall no more often than in NATO.
                  1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                    Cyril (Kirill) 21 July 2021 00: 18
                    -6
                    According to statistics, the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces fall no more often than in NATO.

                    And I did not say that more often. I said not less often. Despite the fact that they have been in the series for a long time, and according to your logic, the designers should have eliminated all their "childhood diseases". But, as we can see, reality is somewhat more prosaic than our amateurish ideas about the work of designers.
    2. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 20 July 2021 16: 28
      +9
      Time will tell. This is how I would like, of course, to create an aircraft in Russia that is not inferior in characteristics to the F-35.

      Not inferior to the F-35? What nonsense? Why do we need to create shit?
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 16: 41
        -12%
        Why do we need to create shit?

        I don't know why exactly you are creating shit :)
        1. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 21: 01
          -10%
          Quote: Cyril
          I don't know exactly why you are creating shit

          Who studied what ...
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 23: 13
            -5
            123 did not study. He confuses Moscow with Minsk :)
            1. Binder Offline Binder
              Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 23: 35
              -7
              Poor fellow ... I sincerely feel sorry for him.
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  • Miffer Offline Miffer
    Miffer (Sam Miffers) 20 July 2021 17: 24
    -10%
    a fighter who must make everyone checkmate.

    What's the check? Who is mate? - There is no war and is not expected.
    And then. He only "must do to everyone". It does not yet exist as such, and even if it will be in one copy by 2027, then" everyone "will simply not notice it.

    along with the heavy Su-57, designed to fight for air supremacy

    The only Su-57 in the army has already won air supremacy. The second "unique" will come up soon. By 2027.
    And together they will "shah" all air salons.
    1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
      sgrabik (Sergei) 20 July 2021 17: 31
      +7
      Time will tell and put everything in its place, all these stupid statements are simply funny to read, the dogs bark - the caravan is coming !!!
      1. Miffer Offline Miffer
        Miffer (Sam Miffers) 20 July 2021 17: 59
        -11%
        It’s funny to me to read your stupid nickname, but by the time everything is put in its place, I hope you’ll come up with another twenty, less gypsy ones.
        1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
          sgrabik (Sergei) 20 July 2021 23: 19
          +2
          When people with limited development have nothing to answer on the merits of the question, they resort to such nonsense and become personal. Don’t poke me, I didn’t drink broodershaft with you, and I’m not going to !!!
          1. Miffer Offline Miffer
            Miffer (Sam Miffers) 21 July 2021 10: 30
            -5
            Yesterday, at 17.24, I wrote "on the merits" of the topic.
            Then Sergey got out and began to insert his 5 kopecks not on business. I didn't ask you about anything at all, and I absolutely sneeze at your "wise thoughts". I don't force you to read my comments, so go by.
            1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
              sgrabik (Sergei) 21 July 2021 12: 21
              0
              Leave your stupid comments to yourself, they are so ridiculous that no one is interested here, you just have a multiply inflated self-esteem and I deeply do not care about your ridiculous writings, you are clearly superfluous here.
              1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 20 July 2021 21: 43
      +5
      ..yes, exactly. And the Crimean bridge will never be built - there is bad soil and all sorts of currents, various hypersonic-atomic missiles, these are only Kremlin cartoons, the Caliber range does not exceed 500 km, and the Russian vaccine is all fake, Putin's propaganda, and he himself was injected with Faizer on the sly, Ukrainian Crimea, Tikhanovskaya-President of Belarus ... Something else, dear ??? Not tired yet?
      I understand, it's a shame. But what to do - humble yourself. There is nothing else you can do but talk self-soothing nonsense, nervously wiping and preparing diapers. What else is this Vova going to pull out of his sleeve again ... laughing
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 21 July 2021 07: 28
        +5
        Do not waste your time on bindyuzhniks and other professional Judas from Israel. These are worthless little people who fled from Ukraine for a better life over the hill, abandoned their homeland, but it turned out that on the new one they are not needed by anyone with their rare talents. Now they are sitting and scribbling poisonous comments about Russia, and it's good if for shekels. And then it looks more like just from your rotten soul, from morning to evening, because there is a lot of free time. These are really rotten people.
        1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
          kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 21 July 2021 11: 35
          +4
          Quote: Marzhetsky
          These are really rotten people.

          good
      2. Miffer Offline Miffer
        Miffer (Sam Miffers) 21 July 2021 10: 32
        -5
        And the "patriots of Russia" from the Czech Republic have not yet given the floor.
        1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 21 July 2021 12: 07
          +2
          And what kind of discrimination is this? From Israel you can, but not from the Czech Republic. And I, by the way, am Russian, regardless of where and when I was. And I was in many places and many times. But with all this, he remained Russian. Even more precisely Soviet, not that in the sense of politics, but in the sense of upbringing, pride and perception of the world. And it makes me very happy that my homeland is gradually returning to what I remember from childhood and youth, for the good of the whole planet, by the way.
          And you - that HTO, eh ??? Another stupid chase of a Latina without clan and tribe? Another "hero" who is either ashamed or scared to write them for his name and surname? negative
          1. Miffer Offline Miffer
            Miffer (Sam Miffers) 21 July 2021 18: 03
            -3
            And what kind of discrimination is this?

            It is absurd to love Russia while living in the Czech Republic.
            This is probably a common property of "Russian patriots", the further they are from Russia, the more they "love" it.

            remained Russian. Even more precisely Soviet,

            You, Russian-Soviet, 30 years ago successfully profiled your country, the USSR. You are profiting today's Russia in the same way.

            who is either ashamed or scared to write them for his name and surname

            You are correctly explaining this to yourself. You are all here with klikuh-chasers, like Bolsheviks-underground workers. As they got scared, so did you follow them.
            1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
              Pishenkov (Alexey) 21 July 2021 19: 02
              +2
              I didn’t get rid of it, and I didn’t use klikuhi, AS YOU, I don’t use it. I am not ashamed of my name, and I don’t hide where I live, unlike you. I’m not afraid. So which one of us has been screwed up here, the question is clear in my opinion.

              It is absurd to love Russia while living in the Czech Republic.

              - to love your Motherland, dear, wherever you are, this is not absurd, this is the norm for every normal person. But you obviously do not understand this, you are ashamed of everything, you see, and for where you live, and for your Motherland, and even for what your name is.

              You, Russian-Soviet, 30 years ago successfully profiled your country, the USSR.

              - no, we served and worked. Only now there are too many people like you between us, who only pretended to be Russian and Soviet. And they climbed into power, not for ideological reasons, about which they lectured to all of us from the stands, but exclusively for the sweet life. They surrendered everything as soon as they were promised that their life would then be even sweeter. She became with them, and with us, all the rest, Russian-Soviet, she plunged into shit.
              I really want to hope that this lesson has been learned, and any trash will be cut off at the root like weeds. Which they are, in principle, wherever they are.
              1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
                Marzhecki (Sergei) 23 July 2021 08: 35
                +5
                Personally, I do not see anything wrong with moving to live in another country, if you can self-actualize there better: study, earn more money, swim in the warm clean sea, etc. The question is different.
                If after moving you do not start to shit on your homeland, but, on the contrary, maintain love and respect for it, you are a normal person. If you, having left, start to shit on her in all forums, you are morally ugly, like our Israeli codela on the site. This is the main fundamental difference between you, Alexey, and the bandages with his other accomplices.
                1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) 28 July 2021 21: 01
                  -3
                  Personally, I do not see anything wrong with moving to live in another country, if you can self-actualize there better: study, earn more money, swim in the warm clean sea, etc. The question is different.
                  If after moving you do not start to shit on your homeland, but, on the contrary, maintain love and respect for it, you are a normal person.

                  But with Alexei Pishenkov, everything is somewhat different. Having left for Europe, he not only continues to "love the Motherland", but actively decries this very Europe in which he now lives.

                  If Miron (Bindyuzhnik) was born and raised in Russia (although, it seems, he is from Ukraine), then he emigrated to Israel and blames Russia - this is understandable. A person, being born in a country, does not choose it. He might not like Russia initially, and as soon as he had the opportunity, he left for Israel.

                  Alexey was born in Russia, then he himself went to "Russophobic and homophilic" Europe (no one forced him to leave there), continues to live there, but constantly in his articles he decries this very Europe. And this is not explainable and contradicts any logic.
  • 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 20 July 2021 18: 06
    +4
    First visitors smile

  • Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 19: 11
    -5
    So, the stand shows the practical range of a promising new generation light multipurpose fighter. It is 3 thousand km. The practical ceiling of the aircraft, designated at MAKS-2021 as The Checkmate (in the export version), is 16,5 thousand meters. Maximum combat load - 7,4 tonnes... In this case, the maximum speed is denoted as 1,8-2 speed of sound (1,8-2 M).

    Vladimir Putin was told that several variants of the newest fighter are being developed: a two-seater aircraft, as well as an unmanned version.

    The maximum overload is indicated at the level 8 units.

    It surpasses the F-35A in flight range and slightly in sound speed, but inferior in combat load and, oddly enough, maximum overload (8 units versus 9 for Lightning). Reduced maneuverability in favor of stealth?
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 20: 59
      -7
      Quote: Cyril
      It surpasses the F-35A in flight range and slightly in sound speed, but inferior in combat load and, oddly enough, maximum overload (8 units versus 9 for Lightning).

      I would not trust 100% of the data on the exhibition stand. And in any case, these data are only the results of calculations by the design bureau, there is no car in real life and it is not a fact that it will ever be.
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 22: 45
        -3
        Well, I operate with what I have. That is, the declared characteristics :)
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 23: 53
          -5
          I understand...
      2. Alexander K_2 Online Alexander K_2
        Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 22 July 2021 07: 22
        -4
        And that the picket fence already has some flight data? Well done, I'm waiting for similar messages from the Russian Navy!
    2. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 20 July 2021 21: 29
      +2
      ... and a price that is at least 2 times less ...
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 22: 49
        -6
        Not without it. Although it is not yet known what exactly includes the declared price of the Russian aircraft.
        1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 20 July 2021 23: 19
          0
          ...fact. Therefore, I called the difference 2 times, and Chemezov 3. I threw this off just for fine-tuning and packaging. It is simply that the comrades from the United States have clearly overtaken us in sawing, there is no doubt. So the price will definitely be better in any case.
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 23: 32
            -4
            It is simply that the comrades from the United States have clearly overtaken us in sawing, there is no doubt.

            By analogy with the space program, where the Proton manufacturer deliberately reduced the cost of the launch at a loss (which is why it got into multibillion-dollar debts), just not to miss the market, there are certain doubts that the price of the Su-57 and the new the plane is cost effective.
  • AND Offline AND
    AND 20 July 2021 19: 16
    +5
    Quote: 123
    First visitors smile

    While the cyril and the bendyuzhnik are sabotaging, the caravan goes without straining ...
    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 20 July 2021 22: 46
      -5
      What is my "joke"? I just outlined the declared characteristics and compared them with the characteristics of the F-35.

      If you are from the "offended" - this is your problem.
  • Alexander K_2 Online Alexander K_2
    Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 20 July 2021 19: 22
    -5
    I would like to be deceived, but it is not clear why with the new AEROPLAN it should be better than with all the previous ones? It could be better if the Russian leadership really assessed the state of the industry and the army of Russia, and did not fool everyone: Armats, Daggers, Zircons, Bulava, etc., "wunderwatches!" , they clog their ears with "Baikals2". And they plan to adapt the engine by General Electric, it turns out we cannot create our own (in 1,2-2022, it will fall from somewhere), so put the old one from AN-2024, or have you already forgotten how to do it?
  • Leonid Kolyadinsky (Leonid Kolyadinsky) 20 July 2021 19: 43
    +3
    Putin was shown not an airplane, but a model of an airplane. And if the aircraft itself began to be built in May 21, then real flights can be expected in five years, then the stage of tests / alterations and the troops will receive the first production aircraft in a dozen years at best. The deadline for the construction of a modern fighter is certainly worthy, but what the "partners" will have by that time, we do not yet know.
    1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
      Just a cat (Bayun) 20 July 2021 21: 20
      +1
      fu, fe, fi (choose the right one) 35 began to build almost from the 80s of the last century ... and are still children's sores. and the partners are already thinking that they were left without aviation at all. There is no point in producing the 35th, and the 22nd will not work ... there are no assembly lines.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • AND Offline AND
    AND 20 July 2021 21: 20
    +3
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    Quote: sgrabik
    maybe Israel has its own highly developed aerospace industry

    It exists and works successfully. But no less important, in my opinion, that Israeli aircraft manufacturers do not demonstrate to the head of state a model of a non-existent fighter, presenting it as an outstanding achievement. The situation is as if someone showed an inflatable doll and said at the same time: "Look what a beautiful friend I have!" lol

    Well, he made fun. Delirium of a gray mare, you have nothing of your own ... From the word at all.
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 22: 07
      -8
      Quote: AND
      you have nothing of your own ... From the word at all.

      Repeat this mantra at least three times a day - you can at least convince yourself. lol
      1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
        sgrabik (Sergei) 20 July 2021 23: 40
        +3
        Miron, well, you, following your own advice, repeat more often the mantra about the deep backwardness of Russia and about its lack of strength and capabilities, maybe someone else besides you will believe in this.
        1. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 23: 59
          -8
          Actually, I really don't care who believes what. Just telling today that Russia has outstripped someone there in some way is like claiming that Lada is the best car that has outstripped all competitors.
          1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
            sgrabik (Sergei) 21 July 2021 12: 30
            +2
            In Russia, the automobile plants of many leading world auto concerns are operating quite successfully, every Russian citizen has a choice of what to buy, a Lada or a Toyota, but what does the military-industrial complex and the aviation-space industry of Russia have to do with it, because we are talking about them !!!
            1. Binder Offline Binder
              Binder (Miron) 21 July 2021 12: 44
              -5
              Quote: sgrabik
              Automotive factories of many of the world's leading carmakers are operating quite successfully in Russia.

              That's exactly how it is - concerns world and not Russian lol And our own production is in deep decline.
              1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
                sgrabik (Sergei) 21 July 2021 16: 20
                +3
                Miron, all our car factories belong to foreign automakers, VAZ under the control of Renault-Nissan, GAZ under Volkswagen, Kamaz under Mercedes, and so on, but what, Israel has its own automakers, or maybe there are manufacturers of civil aircraft and helicopters ?? ?
  • zz810 Offline zz810
    zz810 (zz810) 20 July 2021 21: 20
    -2
    so if he is so good, why would the MO spend money on the 57th ?! belay
  • AND Offline AND
    AND 20 July 2021 21: 26
    +2
    Quote: Alexander K_2
    I would like to be deceived, but it is not clear why with the new AEROPLAN it should be better than with all the previous ones? It could be better if the Russian leadership really assessed the state of the industry and the army of Russia, and did not fool everyone: Armats, Daggers, Zircons, Bulava, etc., "wunderwatches!" , they clog their ears with "Baikals2". And they plan to adapt the engine by General Electric, it turns out we cannot create our own (in 1,2-2022, it will fall from somewhere), so put the old one from AN-2024, or have you already forgotten how to do it?

    Calm down already an Anglo patriot. For you, everything that is Russian will not be better. Don't make people laugh. Another minus.
  • IMHO Offline IMHO
    IMHO (nikitoss) 20 July 2021 21: 55
    -3
    Everywhere they talk about an airplane, but there is no airplane (now someone will explode about the bridge), there is a model! Yes, full-size, but everywhere it pours about having no analogues, better than anyone else, checkmate
    There is a popular saying: don't say gop until you jump over. We are very glad that it appeared (layout), but let it take off and go into production. Otherwise, everything still reminds of the Yo-mobile, which was shown for the elections, well, let's not forget about the models of aircraft carriers and destroyers, which were not destined to come true. There was already a queue for superjets, a queue for the Su-57 too. Well, wait and see. And there is a bridge, but this is not such a miracle of technology as the patriots shout to us.
    1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
      Just a cat (Bayun) 20 July 2021 22: 39
      +3
      Yo-mobile was a private initiative, just like Fomenko's "Marusya".
  • AND Offline AND
    AND 20 July 2021 22: 25
    +2
    Quote: IMHO
    Everywhere they talk about an airplane, but there is no airplane (now someone will explode about the bridge), there is a model! Yes, full-size, but everywhere it pours about having no analogues, better than anyone else, checkmate
    There is a popular saying: don't say gop until you jump over. We are very glad that it appeared (layout), but let it take off and go into production. Otherwise, everything still reminds of the Yo-mobile, which was shown for the elections, well, let's not forget about the models of aircraft carriers and destroyers, which were not destined to come true. There was already a queue for superjets, a queue for the Su-57 too. Well, wait and see. And there is a bridge, but this is not such a miracle of technology as the patriots shout to us.

    Surprise! Do it better and show your miracle of technology, let's see, evaluate. Or just chat?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • AND Offline AND
    AND 20 July 2021 22: 36
    +1
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    Quote: sgrabik
    maybe Israel has its own highly developed aerospace industry

    It exists and works successfully. But no less important, in my opinion, that Israeli aircraft manufacturers do not demonstrate to the head of state a model of a non-existent fighter, presenting it as an outstanding achievement. The situation is as if someone showed an inflatable doll and said at the same time: "Look what a beautiful friend I have!" lol

    Do you even understand what you are writing? (they do not demonstrate to the head of state a model of a non-existent fighter, presenting it as an outstanding achievement.) How can there be an outstanding achievement if it does not exist? Nursery. Do you even believe in what you write?
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 20 July 2021 22: 41
      -8
      Uh, you have obvious problems understanding the printed text. This is to the doctor ...
  • AND Offline AND
    AND 20 July 2021 22: 46
    0
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    Uh, you have obvious problems understanding the printed text. This is to the doctor ...

    It’s so sinking ... Shame. The doctor won't help you. Such a whip. Horrorsss.
  • AND Offline AND
    AND 20 July 2021 23: 02
    +3
    Quote: Cyril
    What is my "joke"? I just outlined the declared characteristics and compared them with the characteristics of the F-35.

    If you are from the "offended" - this is your problem.

    You are offended by everything Russian. Read your writings wise guy. Where is your homeland? What are you a patriot? You write one negative about everything Russian. You are smart and if you don't like something, do it better or help. Why talk and be clever just like that? Some are showing off ..
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 21 July 2021 07: 30
      +5
      Bindyuzhnik is a man without a homeland, without shame and without conscience.
      1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
        Pishenkov (Alexey) 21 July 2021 12: 20
        +2
        No, it's just that some have such concepts as homeland, shame, conscience, honor, truth, lies, etc. they are just "flexible" laughing
        This is now a generally newfangled trend, flexibility and streamlining. Here it is good, but here it is exactly the same - bad, yesterday a boy - tomorrow it is a girl ... wink
        This is our swami, Sergei, you see, the concepts are outdated, ossified ... We are somehow not flexible ... laughing

        But for me personally, despite the obvious backwardness, it’s just that it’s more comfortable to live.
      2. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
        kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 21 July 2021 22: 23
        +4
        Quote: Marzhetsky
        Bindyuzhnik is a man without a homeland, without shame and without conscience.

        The homeland for "bindyuzhniks" is where ... it is warm!
    3. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 21 July 2021 14: 25
      -7
      You are offended by everything Russian.

      I am offended only by your stupidity. More precisely, I am simply sad from her.

      Where is your homeland? What are you a patriot?

      "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" (c) Those who yell the most about patriotism (like you), as practice shows, are the first to betray their country.

      You write one negative about everything Russian.

      Lying.

      You are smart and if you don't like something, do it better or help.

      This is what I do in my field of professional activity and in everyday life.

      Why talk and be smart just like that?

      Really :) Why express your opinion, huh?)

      Some are showing off ..

      You have - yes.
      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 21 July 2021 23: 28
        +1
        Sorry, but as for me, the scoundrel, this is exactly the one who lives in one country, and the priest tears for another, in which he does not want to live out of selfish interests ..
      2. Andrey Gladkikh Offline Andrey Gladkikh
        Andrey Gladkikh (Andrey Gladkikh) 24 July 2021 14: 09
        -1
        Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

        No need to quote quotes, the meaning of which you do not understand. In this expression, the keyword LAST. Already everywhere the scoundrel tried to settle in, but it did not work out. And only in the last place did he decide to settle in (resort to) patriotism. And people like you always interpret this expression as if instead of "last" there was "first". And it is LAST!
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) 24 July 2021 14: 55
          -1
          No need to quote quotes, the meaning of which you do not understand.

          I know the history of this aphorism very well :) So patriotism has already become your last refuge for you. First you are "communist-internationalists", then "patriots".

          Well, about the place of patriotism among other havens for scoundrels, that is, another aphorism:

          In Dr. Johnson's famous vocabulary, patriotism is defined as the last refuge of villains. We take the liberty of calling this refuge first.

          (c) Ambrose Bierce. He was a wise man.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 21 July 2021 12: 55
      -7
      Well, a very convincing method of conducting a discussion with Mr. Marzhetsky! laughing There are no arguments from the word in general, so he demonstrates his own low intellectual level and proletarian origin - there is nothing to cover, so it is necessary to arrange a scandal with boorish vybryk and insults of the opponent. Marzhetsky, and you still tell that a lawyer by profession? lol Yes, apparently, you were once expelled from vocational school for academic failure and violation of discipline. And I solve my problems as needed - I found something to scare. bully
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 23 July 2021 09: 34
        +3
        I have 2 higher educations with honors, soon I will enter the third.
        As for the origin: I am on my paternal side from the Polish gentry, I know my pedigree until the 17th century, and your ancestors bent their backs in front of mine.
        About the insult: you publicly insult my country and get back what you deserve, okay?
        1. The comment was deleted.
  • anclevalico Offline anclevalico
    anclevalico (Victor) 21 July 2021 13: 49
    0
    We don't have the 57th yet, but they were already excited about the model of an incomprehensible design. Circus with horses!
  • AND Offline AND
    AND 21 July 2021 18: 48
    +2
    Quote: Cyril
    You are offended by everything Russian.

    I am offended only by your stupidity. More precisely, I am simply sad from her.

    Where is your homeland? What are you a patriot?

    "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" (c) Those who yell the most about patriotism (like you), as practice shows, are the first to betray their country.

    You write one negative about everything Russian.

    Lying.

    You are smart and if you don't like something, do it better or help.

    This is what I do in my field of professional activity and in everyday life.

    Why talk and be smart just like that?

    Really :) Why express your opinion, huh?)

    Some are showing off ..

    You have - yes.

    one). Where is the nonsense? You are lying ... Show me at least one of your writings, that in the Russian Federation, that something is good and that it was written from you. Completely negative from you and Western propaganda.
    2). The villain's hideout is where you are now.
    3. A lie only in your head tells you what to write.
    four). "In your field of professional activity and in everyday life" you are a dancer and a balabol.
    five). You have no opinion, only fantasy and propaganda.
    ‌6). You, bendyuzhnik and a couple of other stavleniks, friends of Navalny, are entirely propaganda of Euro-Anglo-Amenricosia. Shameless and without a conscience, you only have disadvantages and you are so smart). Very funny.
    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 24 July 2021 14: 58
      -2
      Shameless and without a conscience you have only cons are and you are so smart).

      laughing laughing Oh that's an argument, yes :))

      Are you 10 years old?)
  • Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 21 July 2021 20: 12
    0
    It all depends on what counts as a success. If we are talking about commercial success, a light, and therefore cheaper than the Su-57 fighter, then anything is possible ... If we assume a duel between a light fighter and a heavy one, then the heavy Su-27s have already proved their superiority in a real battle against light MiGs. 29 in the skies of Africa ...
  • Alexander K_2 Online Alexander K_2
    Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 22 July 2021 07: 16
    -4
    It is urgently necessary to rivet another 9 letak, it would be enough nails and plywood, since the engine does not really attach a rubber band and for the first time start like the Guys shoot with a slingshot! Let NATO pound!
  • AND Offline AND
    AND 26 July 2021 17: 54
    0
    Quote: Alexander K_2
    It is urgently necessary to rivet another 9 letak, it would be enough nails and plywood, since the engine does not really attach a rubber band and for the first time start like the Guys shoot with a slingshot! Let NATO pound!

    What nails? What plywood? In what century are you chewing? You are probably in America or Europe ... In the 21st century, all production facilities are automated, robots work.