Why China isn't building warships for the Russian navy

The depressing state of the surface component of the Navy remains one of the most sensitive pain points in Russia. Yes, the process of rebuilding the fleet is gradually underway, but the complex of problems in the industry is so great that overcoming it will take many more years. With great difficulty we were able to localize the production of power plants for frigates of Project 22350, and we can only dream of building new destroyers, cruisers, and even more so aircraft carriers.

But what if tomorrow we really have to "lightly" make war in the oceans, which are hinted at by the provocative actions of the British Navy? There may no longer be time for the buildup, and no one cares that Russia is frankly not ready for this, on the contrary, weakness only provokes aggression. So are there any real options for our country to acquire a combat-ready surface fleet within a reasonable time frame?

We have to admit that the state armaments program (GPV) for the years 2011-2020 for the navy turned out to be largely a failure. If everything is more or less normal with regard to the underwater component, then there were a lot of serious problems with the surface component.

At first, even after the adoption of the GPV, the Ministry of Defense repeatedly revised it, setting sometimes overly optimistic construction dates and linking them with the parallel development of promising weapons for ships, which often led to a shift in the implementation deadline to the right.

Secondly, thwarted the program for the construction of frigates of Project 22350 and Project 11356, Kiev's decision to stop supplying gas turbine power plants to Russia. Corvettes of projects 20380 and 20385, which were left without German MTU diesel engines, also fell victim to Western sanctions. If NPO Saturn was able to cope with the replacement of marine engines for frigates of Project 22350, then Chinese-made diesel engines have to be installed on corvettes, and the Zvezda plant disrupted the supply of domestic M507 diesel engines for small rocket ships of Project 22800. Of course, sooner or later, import substitution will be completed. but the timing, timing ...

Thirdly, the situation is extremely unsatisfactory with the speed of construction of new ships, as well as the repair and modernization of old ones. Building in our country takes a long time and is expensive, many times longer than in the West or in Korea, Japan and China. No wonder the order for floating docks for the newest Russian icebreakers "sailed" to Turkey, where the contractor offered much more comfortable conditions in terms of price and timing.

So, what do we have in the bottom line. There is a rapidly growing demand for the construction of new military and civilian ships. We have irrevocably lost the famous shipyards in Nikolaev together with Ukraine. The remaining shipyards are not enough for everything, their capacities are reserved for years ahead, and they build for a long time and expensively. This is reminiscent of the so-called "trishkin caftan", when the project of a domestic aircraft carrier would have to free up the stocks of "Sevmash" to the detriment of the construction of submarines. You have to choose either this or that. At the same time, due to the sequestration of the defense budget, promising projects, such as the nuclear destroyer Leader, were shelved for a long time, most likely forever. This means that in the next decade we will not actually build anything larger than the SuperGorshkov frigate. That is, the future of our Navy is: modernized old Soviet "Orlans", cruisers and BODs, as well as new frigates of projects 22350 and 22350M plus two brand new UDC under construction in Kerch. To be honest, sparse.

The situation in the shipbuilding industry is extremely depressing, and the most correct solution seems to be the creation of a new shipyard, capable, if necessary, of building an aircraft carrier, repairing a TARK, and taking over part of orders for frigates and submarines to speed up the implementation of GPV. However, so far nothing has been heard about such initiatives from the authorities. And then what is left? Back in 2009, the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Vladimir Vysotsky, said the following:

We at least do not exclude the purchase of foreign ships abroad.

Naturally, the admiral was immediately attacked with criticism, but what did he say so seditious in essence? Recall that the legendary Russian cruiser Varyag was built to order in the United States, like the battleship Retvizan. The gunboat "Koreets" was produced in Sweden. The battleship "Tsesarevich" was built by France for the Russian Empire. During the Soviet era, our Navy used BODs created in Poland, and shipbuilding orders were placed in the GDR, Romania and Yugoslavia. In general, there was nothing shameful in this either for Tsarist Russia or for Soviet Russia. The main thing is not to stick, like the Russian Federation, with the French Mistrals, but these problems could have been avoided without making an order in a NATO member state. And where, in theory, could we build the large surface ships we are so missing quickly and relatively inexpensively?

Logic suggests that China could act as a partner for the implementation of such a program. The pace of work of the Chinese shipbuilding industry is simply amazing, warships appear there like hot cakes on a market day, aircraft carriers are growing on the stocks day by day. At the same time, Beijing does not hesitate to build custom-made warships for its allies. For example, the Chinese are helping Pakistan to strengthen its navy. Rear Admiral Faisal Rasul Lodhi, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Islamic Republic's Naval Forces, explained:

The Pakistani Navy will receive 2021 Type 4A frigates by 054. These ships will significantly improve combat capabilities.
Pakistani Navy and will make a significant contribution to operations to ensure maritime security in the region.

Thus, if desired, Russia could also place an order at Chinese shipyards for the construction of warships for the Russian Navy: both on a turnkey basis, with constant control by the customer over the progress of the contract, and partially, with subsequent refinement and armament already at domestic shipyards. The most interesting thing is that theoretically it would be possible to order ships of more serious classes than our shipyards can handle, destroyers and cruisers of Chinese projects. Perhaps Beijing will be ready to build such ships for Moscow, taking into account the customer's requirements. No kidding, the Chinese are pretty far ahead, and they have a lot to see in the Navy.

For example, these are the fourth generation destroyers of the 055 Nanchang project, with a total displacement of up to 13 tons, an analogue of the American Aegis system and universal launchers with 000 cells. In terms of size, these Chinese destroyers are second only to the Zamvolt, and in their characteristics they are close to the Ticonderoga-class missile cruisers. The PRC Navy intends to acquire 112 such multipurpose ships. Their predecessors are Type 16D destroyers, which are analogous to the American Arleigh Burke. The Chinese have already built 052 missile destroyers of this class. Also, the PLA has modern BODs and UDCs and is building the third aircraft carrier, which should approach the Nimitz in terms of capabilities.

If it is possible to reach acceptable terms of the agreement, then Russia could give China an order for the construction of a series of large surface ships, which it is not yet capable of. Obviously, this will be both faster and even cheaper than trying to stretch the “trishkin caftan” of the domestic shipbuilding industry for all the needs of the Russian Navy. Well, or let's still build a new military superyard in our country.
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  1. Orthodox Offline Orthodox
    Orthodox (Orthodox) 10 July 2021 12: 41
    ... let's build a new military superyard in our country ...

    Only on your own! China is a very unreliable ally, all sorts of tricks
    just wait from him!
    1. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
      Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 11 July 2021 15: 21
      Putin's Russia is "even more reliable"
  2. Volder Offline Volder
    Volder 10 July 2021 12: 58
    The question in the title is not correct. The correct question should be: Why doesn't the RF Ministry of Defense order the construction of ships in China?
  3. Cherry Offline Cherry
    Cherry (Kuzmina Tatyana) 10 July 2021 13: 58
    Why China isn't building warships for the Russian navy

    Does he have to?
    1. Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 10 July 2021 14: 03
      An interesting formulation of the question. If you order and pay money, then yes. If you don't, then of course not, you don't have to. hi
  4. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
    sH, arK 10 July 2021 14: 41
    I didn't read any more nonsense ... China would have built it, only now there was already an experience of installing its diesel engines, they returned to Kolomna, which are already 50 years old ...
    1. wolf46 Offline wolf46
      wolf46 10 July 2021 17: 15
      I agree that even with a hypothetical ordering of warships from China, Russia will not get access to the latest technologies of the Celestial Empire.
      1. oderih Offline oderih
        oderih (Alex) 10 July 2021 19: 21
        Anything above 5000 kW is the lot of gas turbine technologies. What are you talking about?
  5. Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
    Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 10 July 2021 19: 29
    China is seen as a middle state, central, the center of the world, and this predetermines the attitude towards all others.
    A different social system predetermines a collision in the future, and therefore it is foolish to harm ourselves, even in spite of the momentary benefit. It is only the Russian Federation, in pursuit of momentary profits, advertises and sells the most advanced weapons and technologies at dumping prices, for example, it helps the same China in creating an early warning system for a missile attack.
  6. Igor Berg Offline Igor Berg
    Igor Berg (Igor Berg) 10 July 2021 20: 33
    Building in our country takes a long time and is expensive, many times longer than in the West or in Korea, Japan and China.

    The main meaning in these words. And so in everything and everywhere. You don't even need to read the rest.
  7. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 10 July 2021 21: 34
    The article describes and proved in paints - mediocrities rule! But the conclusion is not correct for some reason. If the author proposes to China to make our warships, then would he immediately suggest that the Chinese rule the country? And the Chinese do not stand on ceremony with mediocrity.
  8. bonifacius Offline bonifacius
    bonifacius (Alex) 11 July 2021 00: 56
    ... let's build a new military superyard in our country ...

    Well, let's build it. And where to get the Chinese to work on this super-dupery? Those Chinese who are tyryat forest do not fit. Ukrainians have all forgotten how to build ships. Now, if this shipyard was built in the center of Moscow, then shipbuilders would be found quickly.
  9. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
    sgrabik (Sergei) 11 July 2021 08: 14
    We need to have our own shipyards, completely suitable for the construction of large warships, such as destroyers and aircraft carriers, it is impossible to make such strategically important issues dependent on foreign states, is it really not enough that the precedent with the French Mistrals was enough to confirm this fact, today China is our friend, and no one knows what will happen tomorrow !!!
    1. Monster_Fat Offline Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat (What's the difference) 11 July 2021 11: 04
      There is no one to work with hands. Not in the shipyards or elsewhere. For in Russia, people get a pittance for working with their hands. It is not in vain that Putin's "middle class" starts at 17000 rubles. Nobody goes to work in production for the money that they pay there, moreover, for hazardous production, because ship repair and shipbuilding production are dangerous. And the state does not give a shit about miserable wages in production, on the contrary, it (the state) does its best to maintain the minimum level of wages in the production sector, following one of the "iron" rules of Kudrinomics - the cost of production resources should be minimal to maintain investment attractiveness. In addition, labor in Russia is lowered below the plinth - those who earn money with their own hands are considered losers, rogue. Money like, you don't have to earn, but - "do". It is no coincidence that the face of the investment and economic forum in St. Petersburg was not a man of labor or a scientist, but a "tick-toker". You can build shipyards, but who will work for them?
      1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
        sgrabik (Sergei) 11 July 2021 14: 08
        This is true, no one will work without decent wages, and even more so in such areas as shipbuilding, aircraft construction, space industry, it is necessary to shift priorities towards engineering and technical workers, we now need them much more than lawyers, economists and " effective managers "of all stripes !!!
  10. Oleg Dudko Offline Oleg Dudko
    Oleg Dudko (Oleg Dudko) 11 July 2021 13: 19
    You can also order a couple of helicopter carriers from France, there is experience.
  11. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 11 July 2021 15: 24
    Putin's Russia is confidently catching up with the Russian Empire of Nicholas II in terms of "achievements in economics and politics."
  12. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 11 July 2021 17: 21
    Yes, an inconvenient title.

    The Chinese have a different attitude to kickbacks ...
  13. bulava74 Offline bulava74
    bulava74 (bulava) 11 July 2021 17: 29
    We must not cry about the lack of capacity, and building shipyards is the first thing.
    And yes, at that time, if possible, modernize existing ships. Although the problems with the propulsion system of the existing ships of the first rank, due to the lack of components to replace the out of order, cannot be solved - production is discontinued or the Ukrainians remain in the possession.
    Under the alcoholic Yeltsin, they stretched everything they could.
    It is necessary to correct the situation and introduce new capacities. This business is financially and resource-intensive, but necessary. After all, we are building gigantic objects. The shipyard is not a simple facility, but quite solvable.
    1. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
      Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 12 July 2021 11: 09
      And Putin and his kagal need it?
  14. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 12 July 2021 22: 06
    MTU diesels have never been installed on 20380 corvettes, Kolomna diesel engines have always stood and are there, the same engines were installed on 20385 instead of German MTUs. RTOs are not corvettes, they are RTOs, and Chinese engines were installed not on Karakurt, but on Buyany-M, instead of German diesels, and the domestic fleet was dissatisfied with the quality of Chinese engines.
    USSRNAVY (Dmitriy) 13 July 2021 08: 19
    Amendments. A typo, in Poland they did not build a BOD, but a BDK pr.775. And they always built slowly in the USSR, and in tsarist Russia too. PROBLEM N1. Even without 2 factories in Nikolaev, large oil companies can build 3 factories in the Baltic and, now in Kerch, 1 factory. Total 4 plus something in Zelenodolsk in the amount of TFR. And the NSR also repairs large NKs.
    1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
      kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 13 July 2021 10: 58
      Quote: USSRNAVY
      And they always built slowly in the USSR, and in tsarist Russia too. PROBLEM N1.

      I would not include Tsarist Russia in your list.

      The official laying of the battleships took place on November 9, 1895. On May 7, 1898, the "Peresvet" was launched, and on October 27, "Oslyabyu"

      Battleship "Alexander 3" - 3 years old.
      It makes no sense to enumerate the entire program for the modernization and construction of the RI fleet, but the timeframe from laying down to acceptance by the fleet is incomparable with modern Russian ones.
  16. Siegfried Offline Siegfried
    Siegfried (Gennady) 21 July 2021 13: 43
    the problem is that it is easy to install a hidden beacon in the ship for guiding missiles and many other hidden surprises.