When the presidential Il-96-300 can become a "people's plane"


Three decades of "market reforms" have led to the fact that the Russian sky is almost completely owned by the Western corporations Boeing and Airbus. The events that followed the Ukrainian Maidan in 2014 showed the perniciousness of such an addiction. Today, the domestic civil aircraft industry has embarked on the path of revival. In the short-haul segment, the stake is made on the completely "import-substituted" Sukhoi SuperJet New, in the mid-haul segment - on the promising MS-21. How can we respond to the challenges of the time in the long-haul segment?


In this direction, there is a project of a joint Russian-Chinese liner CR929, but its main production will be in the PRC, so let's take it as a parenthesis. But since Soviet times, Russia has already had a ready-made wide-body Il-96 airliner, which is successfully used by President Vladimir Putin himself, as well as Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. Is this not an advertisement for the reliability of an aircraft that is trusted to transport the country's top officials? What prevents the start of commercial operation of the updated Il-96-400M?

First, let's say a few words about Board # 1. The presidential Il-96-300PU was created in Voronezh by special order. Technically, this is a very reliable car, equipped with four engines, completely assembled from domestic components. Flying on the Il-96, President Putin can perform several tasks at once.


At first, this is the real air command post of the head of state, as indicated by the PU letters in the name of the aircraft. From it, the president can lead the country and make strategic decisions promptly, right up to the start of a nuclear war. At the same time, its safety is ensured by the President-S complex, which is supposed to protect the Board No. 1 from being hit by aviation and anti-aircraft missile systems. More detailed information on this issue is classified.

Secondly, this liner, made by special order, is a real "flying Kremlin". The salon, where the president can receive representatives of foreign states, is richly decorated with works of the best masters in jewelry and engraving. This makes the Il-96-300PU a unique and very expensive aircraft.

Thirdlyusing it, the president emphasizes that Russia is still a member of a very narrow club of aircraft-building powers capable of producing long-haul airliners. Others prefer the products of the American Boeing or the European Airbus.

Having dealt with the wonderful presidential aircraft, it remains to understand why the rest of our country does not fly on its own wide-body aircraft. Indeed, the Il-96 is very reliable, made from domestic components, and uses time-tested Russian engines. Why did the national airlines refuse to operate it in favor of American and European liners?

The answer lies in commercial inefficiency. Unlike Boeing and Airbus of the corresponding class, our Il-96 is equipped with not two, but four aircraft engines. Since there are twice as many power plants on it, the operating costs are correspondingly higher. What is insignificant for "Board No. 1" and other aircraft of the special flight unit, it is critical for the profitability of the air carrier business. That is why the remarkable Il-96 is produced in small batches. But is it possible to somehow rectify this situation and make our long-haul liner competitive with American and European ones?

In fact, certain steps are already being taken in this direction. First of all, we should mention the development of an updated version of the liner under the Il-96-400M index, which was launched in 2017. Its fuselage was lengthened by 10 meters, which increased the passenger capacity to 400 people. This is already comparable to the European A330-300, which, depending on the layout of the cabin, can carry from 295 to 440 passengers, as well as the American 777-200, which can take on board from 305 to 440 people. Not bad at all.

However, the installation of two more powerful PD-96 engines on the Il-400-90M instead of the four PS-1A35 engines can completely change the picture. This is a promising double-circuit turbofan aircraft engine with ultra-high thrust from 33 to 40 tons on takeoff. In fact, this is a scaled and enhanced version of the PD-14, which has already been certified for the MC-21 medium-haul liner. The development of a new power plant began in 2016, a demonstrator is expected in 2023, and the first Il-96-400M with a PD-35 can fly in 2025. Serial production of PD-35 should begin in 2028. This super-powerful engine will be installed both on the updated domestic Il-96 and on the joint Russian-Chinese CR929.

Therefore, by about this time, our country will be able to get its own 100% national wide-body long-haul airliner, which will fully meet all modern requirements. And this is very good.
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  1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 12 2021 11: 53
    +7
    An aircraft with 4 engines flying across the oceans and the Siberian taiga is more reliable than an aircraft with 2 engines. One can talk about fuel consumption, but the new Perm engines are quite economical and meet modern noise requirements. A couple of days ago, I saw the plane from this article in the air, it passed over my head at low altitude. Great car, I would like my compatriots and I to fly these. Today the Russian Federation is second only to the West in servicing its aircraft. You need to start from the territory of the Russian Federation. Such an aircraft could operate flights Moscow - Vladivostok and the like, so it is possible to organize a decent service for these machines in the receiving ports, and it is time to impose sanctions against Western airlines. To begin with, remove Western aircraft from domestic flights within the Russian Federation. It is quite possible to provide high-quality service for domestic machines in its ports of the Russian Federation
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) April 12 2021 14: 15
      0
      To begin with, remove Western aircraft from domestic flights within the Russian Federation.

      And you don't need to wait for the start of production of your own? Approximately until the end of the year certification, only then the start of production and it with American engines. I haven't started certification with Russian ones yet.

      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 12 2021 15: 57
        +2
        There is production, but if you buy Western trash, for kickbacks, you will never have your own people, and those that do exist will stand idle. He flew with motors from Perm, flew normally and Tu-204 flies on them. Normal motors, economical, low-noise, and western certification is not required for flights in the Russian Federation
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) April 12 2021 18: 58
          -1
          What production is there? Who flew that? Have you watched the video? On it MS-21.
          And if about the IL-96, then it will fly, but everything that concerns the engines, nothing has changed, the problem has not gone anywhere. 4 engines are still more expensive to maintain. They can probably fly at home, but with subsidies, they cannot be sold abroad. Those who are doing now will go either to the presidential detachment or to the Ministry of Defense. The commercial needs an engine until there is no use for it.
          1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 12 2021 20: 56
            +2
            I saw an Il-96,2 in flight, 4 days ago, it passed over my head. 2 engines are more expensive than 96, but more reliable, and since the IL-72 is not a maize truck and there are hundreds of passengers on it, this is important. At home we have flying coffins of the ATR-XNUMX type fly, for kickbacks to our triple citizens from the galley. It's time to tie up with this mess, and those who allowed the flights of this coffin in the Russian Federation to be removed from office and brought to justice, at least in memory of those who ditched on this trough near Tyumen. Comers must be put in place. In the United States, they will remove the shavings from the comer who goes against the interests of the United States and leave him without pants ... Nobody bothers the Russian Federation to deal with comers in the same way as the USA does
            1. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) April 12 2021 22: 53
              -2
              I saw an Il-96,2 in flight, 4 days ago, it passed over my head. 2 engines are more expensive than 96, but more reliable, and since the IL-72 is not a maize truck and there are hundreds of passengers on it, this is important. At home we have flying coffins of the ATR-XNUMX type fly, for kickbacks to our triple citizens from the galley.

              In 1997, in Irkutsk, an An-124 crashed directly onto residential buildings, 3 out of four engines failed. So this is not a guarantee, at least put 6. What should have been done with the "who authorized the flights of this coffin to the Russian Federation"?

              You are some kind of beast laughing You should only shoot, plant, and remove shavings. If you try to commerce in the United States to fly a plane with 4 engines, and I will look at this anecdote. And how will the locals compete with them?
              Just understand, an aircraft whose maintenance and upkeep is costly not to sell. To produce only for the domestic market, these are small series, respectively, more expensive. It is necessary to make competitive products and not keep everything on subsidies. Until the engine is made, you can forget about commercial operation.
              1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 12 2021 23: 18
                +3
                Do not compare the gift of God with scrambled eggs, if you read about that disaster, then you know that that plane was critically overloaded, took off from an airfield that was not designed for such cargo and which has an insufficiently long runway. It is the fault of the people who violated all the written and unwritten rules for operating equipment, not the machine. There is no guarantee against fools and 6 motors, but a guarantee against a malfunction is quite reliable ... But look what happens to a comer who goes against the interests of the United States, there will be no wet place from him ... It depends on the operating rules that apply in the country. If flights of planes with a large number of passengers on 2 motors are prohibited, they will take 6 motors, if they are economical enough and you can profit from the operation of planes, and saving on the lives of passengers and pilots is disgusting ... Americans they make bullshit like the F-35 and promote it for bribes, just as the Russian Federation pushed flying coffins like the ATR-72, there is neither healthy competition nor legality. negative
                1. 123 Offline 123
                  123 (123) April 12 2021 23: 54
                  -2
                  Do not compare the gift of God with scrambled eggs, if you read about that disaster, then you know that that plane was critically overloaded, took off from an airfield that was not designed for such cargo and which has an insufficiently long runway. It is the fault of the people who violated all the written and unwritten rules for operating equipment, not the machine. There is no guarantee against fools and 6 motors, but a guarantee against malfunction is quite reliable ...

                  So the engines have nothing to do with it? Protection from the fool you say? And on the APR -72 people have nothing to do with it, just a bad plane? And who else besides you thinks so? I do not insist that the plane is good but still interesting. For example, I found this information:

                  Within less than a minute after the aircraft had lifted off the runway, the first and third engines were switched off, followed by the same with the second engine. An attempt to hold the aircraft on one remaining engine, undertaken by the crew under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Vladimir Fedorov, was unsuccessful, and the aircraft, having entered the right bank, crashed onto house No. 45 on Grazhdanskaya Street.

                  The immediate cause of the crash of the ATR72-201 VP-BYZ aircraft was the PIC's decision to take off (In violation of the requirements of clause 2.14 of FAP-128 and RLE ATR72) without anti-icing treatment in the presence of snow and ice deposits on the surface of the aircraft, detected by the crew while taxiing the aircraft, which led to a deterioration in the aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft and its stall in the climb after takeoff, as well as non-recognition by the crew of the aircraft entering this mode and, as a consequence, failure to take measures to bring the aircraft to operational flight modes.

                  https://mak-iac.org/rassledovaniya/atr-72-vp-byz-02-04-2012/

                  In my opinion, it is quite difficult to dispute that in the first case the engines failed. And in my opinion it is not comfortable to take off without them. And in the second case, the airplane was not treated with anti-bleaching agent. You know, you can count anything, but I just can't believe that in the first case the technique did not fail, but in the second it did, and people have nothing to do with it.
                  And you got it already with the search for a victim for punishment. Start with yourself.
                  1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 13 2021 09: 04
                    +3
                    Good gentleman, don't be rude to me. If you don't understand something, you need to study. I have a specialized aircraft building education and I understand everything there. The length of the runway and the take-off weight are calculated for a reason, you don't use the Vaz-2107 instead of the KaMaZ, I hope ... The engines were driven into a breakdown by exceeding their takeoff power, they were not designed for such a load. During the operation of each aircraft, there are restrictions obtained not only by the technical calculations of the designers, but also by the test pilots, if you do not follow them, you will die on any aircraft. On the ATR-72 there is an engineering miscalculation in the wing structure, it has an increased tendency to icing and is not suitable for flying in a cold RF at all. Attempts to use it at subzero temperatures ended in disaster abroad as well, and rotten officials like to blame their sins on the dead crew. I am sure that the An-124 was forced to take off in such conditions by the bosses from the galley, but without a brain ... A furniture maker should deal with furniture, not the army, and this is just one example ... of a man out of place.
                    1. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) April 13 2021 11: 22
                      0
                      Thank you for the lecture on aircraft construction and the peculiarities of aircraft operation.
                      I am very glad that you understand everything, unfortunately I do not.
                      On the plane crash, I quoted the information that I found. I can add a little, in the description of the technical characteristics it is indicated:

                      Takeoff run at normal takeoff weight: 2520 m

                      https://avia.tutu.ru/plane/81f2a4/

                      As for the airport in Irkutsk, I found a justification for limiting aircraft takeoff at this airport.

                      1956 - 2500 m long runway was built at the airport
                      ...
                      2008 - work on lengthening the takeoff and landing
                      stripes. Its length was 3563 meters. This configuration
                      the runway allows you to take heavy,
                      wide-body aircraft types, such as An-124 (Ruslan), B-767, -777

                      https://iktport.ru/documents/public/MK297.pdf

                      It is difficult to judge whether the missing 20 meters indicated in the characteristics are critical. Life experience tells me that no. The catastrophe happened in winter. I spent a lot of time at the airfield, according to my observations, airplanes at low temperatures require less distance for takeoff and landing, in hot summer weather they tend to use the runway to the maximum, that is, the length of the run increases. Perhaps I am wrong and you, having a specialized education, will be able to convince me. But style statements aren't enough for that - I've seen it on TV or check it out on Wikipedia.

                      Curiously, the rationale for the work on lengthening the runway was the incident in 1999, the Il-76, due to overload, could not take off and just drove on. This is indicated to itself quite openly, but at the same time there is not a word about the AN-124 disaster in the document. I believe that the specialists who compose the document have no motive to hide the cause of the accident. Apparently they did not think that it was caused by a short streak.
                      I also did not find anything about overloading the plane.
                      But then I came across this statement in the description of the D-18T power plant:

                      The engines have low gas-dynamic stability in take-off modes and a lot of various operating restrictions, including downwind at the airfield.

                      True, this is just Wikipedia, and as you know, there is no particular trust in it, but probably there is some real basis for such a statement. It turns out that during takeoff, a breakdown of air flows, surging is possible.
                      In general, I think the length of the GDP played a certain role (if it were longer, the plane would probably have been able to stop), but the failure of 3 engines became the root cause of the disaster.
                      As for the ATR-72, I am not saying that the plane is wonderful and not prone to icing, but before departure it was not treated with reagents, in my opinion it was simply saved on this. An airplane prone to icing is not treated with an anti-icer before departure, does such preparation in flight exclude the human factor?
                      And yes, it was not rudeness, they just got your "bloodthirsty" descriptions of whom and how you deem it necessary to punish. This is the difference in approach. Of the two eternal questions, you are interested in - who is to blame, I am more interested in what to do. hi
                      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 13 2021 12: 24
                        +3
                        You should understand that when the length of the runway required for takeoff and landing is indicated (in the aircraft performance characteristics, this is indicated as takeoff and run, respectively), these are the minimum values ​​of the runway length required for takeoff and landing. If 20 meters is not enough for a takeoff run, and the car is overloaded, this is not just critical, it is a ban on takeoff in such a strip. Taking off from such a strip is an unambiguous disaster, which is exactly what happened. 20 meters may not be critical on a new car, without cargo and with a crew of test pilots ... and even they will have to think about how to take off and not ditch ... conditions (this is not a normal situation). Yes, the cold air adds a little thrust to the engines, but just a little ... With such an overload as it was then on Ruslan, it's not about anything ... but also the plane is worn out and with Ukrainian spare parts of very low quality ... If I write to you that there is more 50% of the spare parts that came to VASO from Ukraine during the joint production of An-148 were defective, will this convince you ?! It's just that on the IL-76, the crew, having received an order from a stupid boss to take off with an unacceptable overload, did not become heroic, but would drive the engines to an out-of-the-box mode of operation and would die on takeoff when the runway was taken off, or the turbines would die right after takeoff ... the car is excellent, but from a durum they say it is possible to break a penis ... The breakdown of the air flow in the turbine occurs precisely because of an excessively sharp increase in engine speed ... Only the most experienced pilots could fly on the first jet type Me-76, and on takeoff and When landing, this machine was defenseless, precisely because it was impossible to abruptly give gas on it, the fire of the engines due to the disruption of the flow ... The An-262 is not a fighter, this is a heavy machine and you need to fly it carefully in compliance with all recommendations ... Well, I saved then again, not the crew, but the owners of the aircraft ... Again, the question is, who launched such a machine without processing and why is it generally needed in the Russian Federation with such jambs in its design, if it is worse than even the antediluvian An-124 .. Rollbacks, obviously rollbacks ... Do you think that idiots who are responsible for hundreds of deaths should not be punished ?! I disagree with you. I believe that those responsible for the An-24 and ATR-124 disasters should be hanged on the aspen, for these are killers ... But I am interested in both questions and the answer to them is obvious to me ... Hang the guilty and appoint someone smarter to lead the army furniture maker with relevant education and experience.
                2. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
                  kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) April 13 2021 01: 07
                  -1
                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  you know that that plane was critically overloaded, took off from an airfield not intended for such cargo and having an insufficiently long runway. It is the fault of the people who violated all the written and unwritten rules for operating equipment, not the machine.

                  You can ask you for links to those materials about the disaster that you read.
                  As far as I know, after the work of several commissions, military and civilian, there were several versions of the causes of the disaster. Even specialists from Ukraine were invited, and the D18t engine was produced there. (Motor sich)
                  The recording of the crew's conversations was not preserved - both flight recorders were in the center of the fire and were badly damaged.

                  On February 11, 1998, the results of an investigation into the causes of the disaster by a government commission were announced, which found that the plane crashed due to design flaws in the D-18T engines,
                  statistics: from 1987 to 1997, 60 failures of the D-18T engine occurred: 23 during the take-off run (7 after separation), 15 in flight, 4 during landing, 3 during testing and bench tests, 42 due to a small margin of gas-dynamic stability
                  The second version: an increased (exceeding the standard) water content in aviation fuel (kerosene) led to a catastrophic situation and, as a result, ice formation and clogging of fuel filters, which caused engine surge:
                  There was no indication of an overload or an unsuitable strip of materials. Let's not fantasize.

                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  People are to blame here

                  I fully agree with this. Here the human factor is evident!
                  1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 13 2021 08: 56
                    +2
                    If you overslept these materials, this does not mean that they are not. What I wrote was an official message on Russian TV, the same materials are in Wikipedia. If you open the article about the An-124 in Wiki, you will see them.
                    1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
                      kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) April 13 2021 11: 35
                      -2
                      Quote: Sapsan136
                      If you overslept these materials, this does not mean that they are not. What I wrote was an official message on Russian TV, the same materials are in Wikipedia. If you open the article about the An-124 in Wiki, you will see them.

                      I understand that your "materials" are based on TV programs of the Russian Federation? laughing Everything is clear with you !!!
                      Watch more often, the 1st channel is better. hi
                      This is from Vicki !!!

                      Investigation
                      A special commission was set up to investigate the causes of the RA-82005 (08) crash.
                      On February 11, 1998, the results of an investigation into the causes of the crash were announced by a government commission, which found that the plane crashed due to design flaws in the D-18T engines produced by the Ukrainian Motor Sich enterprise: engines No. 1 and 3 shut down on the runway when Ruslan has not yet taken off. Already in the air, the engine shut-off solenoid valve No. 2 worked. Immediately after the disaster, experts suggested that the refusal was due to a mixture of the so-called summer and winter fuel, which, through the fault of ground services, could have been poured into the Ruslan's tanks. However, the members of the commission found that the fuel had nothing to do with it, and the engines were out of order due to design flaws (this, at least, can be said about engines No. 1 and 3). It was not possible to establish why the solenoid valve for stopping the engine No. 2 worked: after the crash of the plane, practically nothing remained of it. The commission came to the conclusion that it was necessary to replace the D-18 engines of the first series with engines of the third series on all 20 An-124s operated at that time in Russia ..........
                      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 13 2021 12: 04
                        +2
                        And with you and at all ... Can you find out your education ?! Do you think that it is not necessary to overload the motors in order to accelerate along the GDP of an overloaded aircraft ?! I'm not even talking about the fact that the motors are old, and the quality of spare parts that went to VASO from Ukraine, for example, is 70% marriage, of which 30% is fixable marriage, and 40% is not fixable (only for scrap)
                      2. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
                        kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) April 13 2021 12: 11
                        -2
                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        I'm not even talking about the fact that the motors are old, and the quality of spare parts that went to VASO from Ukraine, for example, is 70% marriage, of which 30% is fixable marriage, and 40% is not fixable (only for scrap)

                        "Change your shoes on the go" is already good! hi
                      3. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 13 2021 12: 29
                        +3
                        As far as I understand, you have no education ... but I just pointed out to you that the worn-out aircraft was operated at loads beyond its limits, violating all written and unwritten rules, as a result of which a catastrophe was inevitable. It is not the plane that is bad, but such as Chernomyrdin, who, to please Ukraine, left the Russian fleet without turbines and bought marriage in Ukraine, to the detriment of the development of domestic production ... Already at the same Kazan, Samara, Perm or Voronezh aircraft factories, the specialists are much better, than in Ukraine ...
                      4. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
                        kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) April 13 2021 12: 58
                        -2
                        As far as I understand, you have no education ...

                        TsPSh. laughing

                        the worn-out aircraft was operated at extreme loads for it, violating all written and unwritten rules, as a result of which a disaster was inevitable.

                        An-124-100 (registration number RA-82005, serial 4516003, serial 01-07) was released in 1985 (first flight was made on October 30) and was originally operated by Aeroflot (Antonov Design Bureau) under w / n USSR-82005 ... On February 14, 1988, it was transferred to the USSR Air Force (566th Military Transport Aviation Regiment, based at Seshcha airfield), received w / n 08 in them; since 1992 - as part of the Russian Air Force, the tail number changed to RA-82005, b / n in the Air Force remained the same - 08. Equipped with four double-circuit three-shaft turbojet engines D-18T produced by the Zaporozhye machine-building KB "Progress"... On the day of the disaster, he made 576 take-off-landing cycles and flew 1034 hours

                        Board RA-82005 followed from Moscow to the Vietnamese military airfield
                        Cam Ranh with landings in Irkutsk and Vladivostok. Onboard there were 40 tons of cargo - two SU-27UBT fighters, 15 passengers and 8 crew members assembled at the Irkutsk Aviation Plant.

                        Further chronology of events was restored by the experts of the commission to investigate the causes of the disaster with scrupulous accuracy:

                        3 seconds after takeoff, altitude 5 m - surge and engine shutdown # 3.
                        9 seconds after takeoff, height 22 m - normal engine stop No. 2.
                        11 seconds after takeoff, height 66 m - engine surge # 1.
                        The increase in the angular speed and angle of attack did not exceed the permissible values, but due to a sharp loss of thrust after stopping three of the four engines, the An-124 began to roll to the left and a sharp decline with a simultaneous loss of linear speed.

                        The plane is not bad, but such as Chernomyrdin, who, to please Ukraine, left the Russian fleet without turbines.

                        "Ruslans" went into series production in the mid-80s. Chernomyrdins still did not "smell", and problems with the engines were already then.
                        Everything. Watch TV. smile
                        End of communication. hi
                      5. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 13 2021 13: 46
                        +3
                        Well, what does your Central Party School have to do with the army and aviation ?! The answer is no ... I now have a permit to work with gas equipment, but I will never write about the technical intricacies of laying the main gas pipeline, because it is not my topic, not my profile ... Well, well ... under Gorbachev and Yeltsin, problems were everywhere, because there were no scheduled repairs, no money was allocated, everything was done through the anus. Go about your business, and before writing about aviation, graduate at least the corresponding faculty of the Polytechnic ... negative
                      6. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
                        kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) April 13 2021 18: 50
                        -3
                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        Well, what does your Central Party School have to do with the army and aviation ?! The answer is no.

                        laughing laughing laughing
                        You are still young!
                        TsPSh is a parish school!
                        Koshkin, Mikhail Ilyich, creator of the legendary T-34 tank. Was born in 1889. Graduated from a parish school.
                        By the way, T.D. Lysenko - Stalinist "academician", was born in 1898, graduated from the Central School of Arts.
                        The TsPSh was graduated by both outstanding Soviet designers and the Stalinist "academicians" who brought Soviet biology to the handle.

                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        Go about your business, and before writing about aviation, graduate from at least the corresponding faculty of the Polytechnic ...

                        Of course, I have diplomas of the "tower" and more than one, but why boast about it?
                        I've also seen "emptyheads" with diplomas, especially those received in the 90s ..
                        We digress from the topic of our dispute.
                        You got away from all questions and facts.

                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        ..Well, well ... under Gorbachev and Yeltsin, problems were everywhere, because there were no planned repairs, no money was allocated, everything was done through the anus.

                        This is empty talk, cheap populism, a comrade with "specialized education."
                        Adieu ..
                      7. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 13 2021 19: 09
                        +3
                        I am not too young, but even my grandfather, who died a few years ago at the age of 90, did not graduate from the Church Parish School, he graduated from a vocational school ... he served in intelligence ... not the GRU, of course, but still .. Well, if it’s untimely for you and not high-quality maintenance of equipment, this is populism and nonsense, it means a worthless price for your education, or you have it philological ... and you need to write about what you know more about than aviation ... fool By the way, the T-34 was brought to mind by Morozov, what Koshkin did was a semi-finished product ...
  2. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
    kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) April 12 2021 23: 27
    +2
    Quote: 123
    If you try to commerce in the United States to fly a plane with 4 engines, and I will look at this anecdote.


    Boeing 747-400. Operated, produced 700 units.


    Airbus А 380. Produced, operated. Issued 246 units for February 2021.
    There is no point in listing all 4-engine models.

    Quote: 123
    Until the engine is made, you can forget about commercial operation.

    Commercial operation can be launched, that's just how cost-effective it is and when it will pay off, that's the question. hi
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) April 13 2021 00: 09
      0
      To be honest, washed yes I thought the Airbus A 380 was stopped producing. It's useful to watch, they are writing just going to stop this year "due to low demand". As far as I understand, it is not popular precisely because of the increased operating costs, just because of the 4 engines. Boeing has not been produced for 10 years. It is flying and those released earlier are still alive.

      Commercial operation can be launched, that's just how cost-effective it is and when it will pay off, that's the question.

      So what am I talking about? This is what I am saying, just in slightly different words. Our companies in a "voluntary-compulsory" order can probably be foisted, but in order to compete with new foreign ones, they will have to date. It will not be possible to sell to foreigners, unless Cuba will take another 1-2 on credit or Iran. And a small series means a high price. The aircraft will be expensive to manufacture and operate.
      And here I am being pissed off as an enemy, as an enemy of Russian aviation and a defender of competitors.laughing
      Thank you for correcting hi
      1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
        kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) April 13 2021 00: 40
        0
        Quote: 123
        Our companies, in a "voluntary-compulsory" manner, can probably be foisted,

        This is how it happens! Take the famous "superjet". Aeroflot is already crying from him. I flew it 5 times, and I started with the first copies at Aeroflot. Flight Moscow - Sofia. It did not yet have "ovens" for heating the food board, it was first prepared for internal. flights, then the truth was finalized and allowed to external.
        It is impossible to stop the plant, they do not take it abroad. For example, the Americans do not allow Iran.
        Here it is on "theirs" and shove. Downtime is serious, there is no profitability.
        You are right, of course you need serial production, but besides it, you need to have a competitive dvigun, but there is none, there are also problems with avionics.
        Hope dies last! The main thing is that it does not develop into a campaign or a banal cut of funds.
        I flew on 747s, on 86s, these "stables" are still convenient. laughing
        All the best. Good luck. drinks
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) April 13 2021 01: 53
          +1
          As I looked at the Superjet, the production capacity, in my opinion, is loaded by 1/4. Do not let the production bend. Until the new version is completed, it will be so. As for avionics, they seem to be already doing it, the Superjet and MS-21 will be the same. And for the time being, they will do the Il-96 for the needs of the Motherland, if all the needs are covered, refuellers will do it. and wait for a new engine. In general, work is underway, but everything takes time. Development, production, certification.
          All the best to you too drinks
          As a snack, one more bird is undergoing certification.

  • akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound April 12 2021 12: 18
    +2
    When will the presidential Il-96-300 become a "people's plane"?

    Then, when complex engineering structures (such as aviation and "space" design bureaus, for example) will be dealt with by professionals with special engineering education, as was the case in the USSR, and not by effective managers with a humanitarian idea of ​​a distant subject for them.
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 12 2021 14: 22
    -1
    Those. sometime later, as usual. Judging by the comments.

    Calculate:
    The release of the first IL 96 is already under 30 years old, the engines will be in 10 years, if we take into account the delay in terms.
    Moreover, effective managers will steer.
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) April 12 2021 15: 37
      +1
      Well, as an alternative, you can do nothing at all and leave it as it is. Are you in favor of this option?
      P.S. it is also good that the production base did not have time to endanger, everything can be revived and scaled up. If desired.
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 12 2021 18: 35
        0
        Tse is a little different.
        The fact that IL will be, no one doubts. Because a lot is tied to it.

        But it is suspicious whether there will be a massive "national".
        Now - the release is minuscule and the plane is 4-engine ...
        After 10 years? When will motors be mastered? - You indirectly answered this title question .......
  • steelmaker Online steelmaker
    steelmaker April 12 2021 14: 55
    -2
    Thirty years have passed since the collapse of the USSR. And that's all, we can't create our own. And if we can, then in single copies. And those copies must receive permission from the owner so that they can fly, drive and build within the country. And they called it so tricky - certification.

    The Ministry of Aviation Industry of the USSR (MAP) - abolished by the Decree of the State Council of the USSR dated November 14, 1991, ceased its activity on December 1, 1991.

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki
    Well, who is stopping Putin from sending his masters and returning to our certification of everything Russian? And not constantly ask permission from the US and the EU?
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) April 12 2021 15: 34
    -2
    Quote: steel maker
    Well, who is stopping Putin from sending his masters and returning to our certification of everything Russian? And not constantly ask permission from the US and the EU?

    In principle, you can. Only abroad they will not be able to fly then ...
    Everything is cleverly done
    1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 12 2021 15: 59
      +3
      Then the airspace of the Russian Federation will be closed for Western aircraft, because the Russian Federation is not obliged to let Western-made flying coffins into its airspace.
      1. steelmaker Online steelmaker
        steelmaker April 12 2021 16: 19
        -2
        Everything is correct. "On the tricky ass, there is a threaded bolt." Only political will is missing.
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) April 12 2021 16: 45
    -2
    Quote: Sapsan136
    Then the airspace of the Russian Federation will be closed for Western aircraft, because the Russian Federation is not obliged to let Western-made flying coffins into its airspace.

    First, you need to saturate the aircraft fleet with your planes, otherwise it could be bad.
    And about not obliged - what do the WTO norms say about it? I just have to.
    1. steelmaker Online steelmaker
      steelmaker April 12 2021 17: 07
      -1
      So we returned "to our rams". One must be a statesman, not a "huckster", have political will, and not express concern. Then all issues will be resolved very quickly. But first, you need to remove from the government and deputies with other citizenship, return families and businesses to Russia. But only cooks and taxi drivers will be able to do this, education will not be enough for mediocrity!
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) April 12 2021 17: 08
        +1
        In general, so
    2. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) April 12 2021 21: 01
      +4
      Membership in the WTO after the imposition of Russian sanctions against the Russian Federation is not profitable, so they can go with their rules to the forest to a bad mother, and we have decent planes, the same Tu-204s are in sedimentation tanks and not because they are worse, just for foreign flying coffins type ATR-72 triple citizens from the galley receive kickbacks
  • Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) April 13 2021 15: 05
    +1
    The development of a new power plant began in 2016, a demonstrator is expected in 2023, and the first Il-96-400M with a PD-35 can fly in 2025. Serial production of PD-35 should begin in 2028. "...... Translated into the current realities of Putin's capitalism, where words often diverge from deeds, this means in the year around 2035-2040 IL-96 will fly with two new PD engines -35, maybe it won't fly
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) April 14 2021 07: 13
    +1
    Quote: Spiritual
    The development of a new power plant began in 2016, a demonstrator is expected in 2023, and the first Il-96-400M with a PD-35 can fly in 2025. Serial production of PD-35 should begin in 2028. "...... Translated into the current realities of Putin's capitalism, where words often diverge from deeds, this means in the year around 2035-2040 IL-96 will fly with two new PD engines -35, maybe it won't fly

    Anything can be. But let's hope for the best.