The decision was made: frigates and corvettes will become the "backbone" of the Russian fleet


I am finishing a series of articles on the state of affairs in our surface fleet. IN first material I talked about the strange sale to the Algerian Navy of two of our new corvettes of Project 20380, which have been under construction since 2015 at PJSC Shipyard Severnaya Verf for the Russian Navy, and explained what is the difference between this project and Project 20385. the second part it was about a breakthrough heavy corvette of project 20386, which will have to replace the outdated light frigates of the far sea zone of project 11356R.


In this final part, we will talk about a series of similar ships, speculate in which direction the domestic surface fleet will develop, and finally put an end to Algerian history. More precisely ellipsis ... So, I continue.

Серия


Just now I lamented that the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the Russian Navy could not agree among themselves on the concept of the development of the fleet, torn between large and small pennants, not knowing who to give preference to, heavy surface ships (BNK) rank 1-2 with a large displacement or small missile boats (MRK) of the 3rd rank with firepower equal to large pennants. So the decision has already been made, and not yesterday, and not even the day before yesterday. The preference is given to large pennants, not cruisers and destroyers, of course, but frigates of the 1st and 2nd rank of the oceanic zone and corvettes of the 2nd rank of the near and far sea zone. Of course, we will also build RTOs, but their lot is the near sea zone, and, thank God, that even from there we can threaten the Swede. But agree to show the flag and back it up with the fact of your presence. policies state to a ship without a jack is somehow stupid (and not by rank in the literal sense of the word). This will be done by heavy frigates of project 22350 / 22350M and corvettes of projects 20385/20386.

We will most likely say goodbye to light frigates of Project 11356R. We built them out of despair. We had nothing to threaten the Swede with, or rather the Yankees. We had sea-based weapons worthy of better use (the Polyment-Redut air defense missile system and the UVP 3S14, not counting the Paket-NK PTZ and the Caliber PLR), but there was nowhere to place it. In the 90s we abandoned our surface fleet to the mercy of fate (only the submarine was maintained in proper condition due to lack of money), we did not design new BNKs, so we had to launch a series of obsolete, but cheap and time-tested frigates of Project 11356R and diesel-electric submarines “Varshavyanka »Project 636.3, when after Munich 2007 (and the famous speech of the GDP) the situation in the world changed and the words had to be supported by arguments (nobody canceled the gunboat policy in the 21st century). But then Ukraine intervened and by refusing to supply its power plants slowed down the development of our surface fleet for at least 10 years. Now, 7 years later, the situation has changed, we have new BNK projects (22350 / 22350M and 20385/20386), equipped with domestic power plants, and the need for the construction of obsolete ships has disappeared. The light frigate of Project 11356R is being replaced by a heavy corvette of Project 20386, but I do not exclude that while the prototype of the lead corvette Mercury of this series will be tested and tested, the Admiral Kornilov, which is now freezing at the shipyards of the Shipyard, can still return to Project 11356R. Amber ", will replenish not the Indian, but the Russian fleet (but so far the command does not plan this, the emphasis is on corvettes and heavy frigates).

To reduce the cost of their construction, a series is needed. Big series! Serial ships reduce the cost of production. Small batch is more expensive. Until now, everything went in small batches in our country. But now the decision has been made. We are launching a series of heavy surface ships. As the basis of the fleet, do not be surprised, corvettes are chosen, not frigates. Stupid in order to save money. There is simply not enough money for everything at once, and our slipways are not made of rubber. Therefore, only 22350 heavy frigates of the admiral's series of project 10 are planned so far (PJSC Shipyard Severnaya Verf will build). Of these, 2 are already in service ("Gorshkov" and "Kasatonov"). The third - "Admiral Golovko" was launched, received Yaroslavl engines, and is preparing for mooring tests. The fourth - "Admiral Isakov" this year is preparing to launch. Another 4 "admirals" are under construction - "Amelko", "Chichagov", "Yumashev" and "Spiridonov". And two more have been contracted, serial numbers have already been issued, if everything goes according to plan, the bookmark will take place this year (the names of the admirals, and, accordingly, the names of future ships are not yet known). An even more powerful frigate of the modernized project 22350M (with a displacement of 8000 tons) is still in the R&D stage.

We are doing better with corvettes. A series of 29 units is planned. Of these, 8 are already in service. Another 5 are under construction at PJSC Shipyard Severnaya Verf and PJSC Amur Shipyard. And 16 more were contracted by the Ministry of Defense. Most of these are products of projects 20380 and 20385 (28 units), ships of the near sea zone, light corvettes with a displacement of 2250 and 2430 tons, respectively. Another corvette "Mercury" of project 20386, being built at "Severnaya Verf", is considered as a prototype. Based on the results of his tests, a decision will be made to continue the series. But this is a special corvette - a heavy, far sea zone, with a total displacement of 3400 tons, is considered as a replacement for the outdated light 2nd rank frigates of Project 11356R.

And what about the enemies?


It is difficult for us to compete with our enemies in this component. But it's worth looking at their example. The largest batch ship in the US Navy is the 4th generation URO destroyer of the Arleigh Burke class. Since 1988, they have already riveted 68 pieces. The first of them entered the fleet in 1991, the last in September last year. At the moment, 6 more units are under construction and 15 more are planned. The total will be 89, but I think the Americans will not stop there. They are being built by only two factories, but they work like clockwork, launching 2-3 destroyers a year from the stocks. This is a very formidable ship with guided missile weapons (URO), capable of carrying from 56 to 96 of the very same Tomahawk cruise missiles with a range of 2,5 km, which can also carry a nuclear warhead. During this time, he has already gone through three upgrades (I, II and IIA series), each heavier than the previous one in displacement (8448 tons, 9073 tons and 9648 tons, respectively) and more advanced in armament. Since 2016, the production of a new improved fourth modification - series III has begun, according to which another 24 ships will be laid. At the same time, the Americans do not stop there, they are designing new ships for the future, even more advanced, but also just as expensive.

So the logical continuation of the 4th generation URO destroyers of the "Arlie Burke" type were the URO destroyers of the "Zumvolt" type, these are the 5th generation destroyers, sharpened for the destruction of coastal and ground targets, and equipped with the same Tomahawks (80 pieces). With a displacement of 14797 tons, its crew is half that of the Arleigh Burke (148 people versus 380 people on the IIA destroyers). At the same time, the price of the lead destroyer exceeded $ 4,4 billion (Burks are 2 times cheaper - $ 1,7 billion for the serial and $ 2,2 billion for the lead in the series), so Congress cut appetites of the military department, and instead of the planned 32 pieces, only 3 were built (more precisely, two, the third is under construction), and 29 were canceled. And although the Pentagon insisted, drawing attention to the fact that on new destroyers it is working out new Technology and weapons, and "Zumvolt" is a testing ground for them, but the Congress was adamant - there is no money, the budget is not rubber (and the Americans have it!). And the argument was rolled out in reinforced concrete - old submarines of the Ohio class, with higher stealth, can carry 2 times more missiles (154 versus 80) and their conversion for these purposes costs 2 times cheaper. Therefore, the vaunted Zumvolt covered itself with a copper basin, and the Pentagon had no choice but to extend the service life of the old 4th generation destroyers, which will form the backbone of the US Navy until 2035 (before the start of the massive withdrawal of series II destroyers from the fleet). But the destroyers, I must say, are very good, tested technology, a promising platform that allows you to upgrade the project all the time. At one time, in the late 80s, they were ahead of their time with him, they built the ship of the future.

There, they have 22 more Ticonderoga-class URO cruisers dangling in the Navy, the head of which, which gave the series name, was laid down in 1980 (scrapped in 2004), and the last one, built in 1994, will be decommissioned only in 2045 (in the venerable age of 51!). Also a terrible weapon with a displacement of 9800 tons, carrying up to 122 Tomahawks. True, they don't build them anymore, they only extend the resource to the rest. Also, the pockets are not bottomless. And these are the Americans! Sea robbers. How can we compete with them in the number of ships? Only in quality. We will sink their destroyers from our "inflatable mattresses". But with supersonic Onyxes and hypersonic Zircons. And the first "mattresses" are already in the fleet. Cheap and very angry. And even with modernization options. More on this below.

Transform ships


The modular principle of the architecture of projects 20380/20385/20386 allows, during the construction of new and modernization of existing ships, to install new systems of weapons and electronic weapons on them, which reduces production costs and provides a high modernization potential during the minimum 30-year life cycle of the ship (which after overhaul extended). This principle was already implemented on the 20380 project, when, starting from the second building (the first serial and subsequent ones), changes were made to the project. Thus, the Kortik-M air defense missile system was replaced by a new medium-range Redut air defense missile system with vertical launch installations (12 cells - 3 modules of 4 cells each), and from the eighth building the 3S24 Uranus anti-ship complex will be replaced with Onyx "Or" Caliber "also with UVP (universal shipborne shooting complex UKSK 3S14). Starting from the ninth hull, a new foremast is installed on the ships of project 20380, structurally similar to that installed on ships of project 20385. On the surface of such a structure, there will be three antenna blades of the air defense system.

Project 20385 relative to the eighth corps of project 20380 also underwent changes that strengthened its armament, in addition to the UKSK 3S14 with its family of missiles for various purposes ("Caliber-NK", "Onyx", "Zircon"), it also received an additional module for 4 cells of the SAM " Redoubt ", now he has 16 of them (4 x 4 instead of 3 x 4 on the project 20380).

As a result, the corvettes of this family have turned out to be the most innovative and technically advanced ships of our Navy. The modular principle turned them into a kind of transformer ships, when each subsequent ship may differ from the previous one, depending on the tasks that are in front of it. So, corvettes serving in the Baltic and equipped with the most powerful at the moment sea-based air defense systems of the Redut air defense system (this is the naval version of the famous S-400), have become the most formidable weapon in the region, surpassing all the opponents available there by a head in this component ( all sorts of Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Dutch and other different Poles). Having turned into floating air defense fortresses, they multiplied by zero all the claims of these greatest dwarf states to the Russian Federation in our 200-mile economic zone. In terms of fire efficiency, only air defense cruisers allocated to NATO in a separate class of ships can compete with them, which neither the Swedes, nor the Danes, nor the Norwegians, nor the Dutch, not to mention the Poles, have.

Corvettes, on the other hand, serving in the Pacific Ocean, are forced to perform tasks not only of sentinel and security services within a 200-mile coastal zone, but also to go out into the distant sea zone for single patrolling, for which they are equipped with shock functions by replacing the Uranium anti-ship missile system on UKSK 3S14 with the possibility of using the Kalibr-NK missile launcher, the Onyx anti-ship missile system, and, in the future, the Zircon missile launcher, which turns them into universal multipurpose URO attack corvettes. The plans of the command were to equip all four of our fleets with them, six corvettes for each (24 in total). But already now, judging by the ships contracted for production, we are exceeding these plans (at the moment the series is already 29 units). And given the fact that they have the same platform, this allows us to increase the series of these ships as needed, reducing the unit cost and production costs. What corvettes will go to the Northern Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet, we'll see. But judging by the Algerian contract, Project 20380 corvettes will definitely not go to the Black Sea Fleet.

The secret of the Algerian project


To close the issue with Algeria, I can only say that, apparently, the command decided to sacrifice two corps (7th and 8th), originally intended for the Black Sea Fleet, in favor of the Algerian Navy for some objective reason, we do not famous. Most likely, this is due to the weapons installed on them. Indeed, from the 8th corps, it is planned to replace the 3S24 "Uran" anti-ship complex installed on the corvette, equipped with subsonic anti-ship missiles Kh-35U, with the UKSK 3S14, designed for supersonic "Onyxes" and winged "Caliber-NK". This is exactly what the Algerians should have received (do not be confused by the name "Yakhont" - these are the same "Onyxes" only in export version). True, as air defense protection, the Algerians will get the outdated Kortik-M air defense system (in the export version, referred to as “Kashtan-M”). Only the head corvette of this series was equipped with this air defense complex, all subsequent ones were armed with the already deadened version of the S-400 - the Redut air defense system.

There are generally more questions than answers with the Algerian project. It became clear from the Algerian press that they were expecting from two to six ships (half in the air defense version, half in the PLO version). The "Tiger" they chose will be 300 tons heavier than their Russian counterparts and 10 meters higher (on the last point I have questions, maybe due to the foremast?). The time-tested German diesel-diesel plant, consisting of two MTU 16V1163TB93 diesel engines and one RENK gearbox for each of the two units included in it, will be used as a power plant. In terms of armament, in addition to the Kashtan-M air defense missile system, they also ask to install the Shtil-1 air defense system (no question - any whim for your money), and a long-range surface-to-surface missile for each of the ships. I am writing, as indicated in the press, there may be inaccuracies in translation, but what kind of "ground-to-ground" on the ship? Maybe surface-to-surface? I have already said about the strike missile armament, they will get the export version of the Onyx and the Caliber - 1 x Caliber-NKE missile system (8 missiles) or the Yakhont complex (8 anti-ship missiles). I don’t know which helicopter they will choose, options are possible - 1 Ka-28 anti-submarine helicopter or a Ka-31 radar patrol helicopter or a Super Lynx type helicopter in hangar storage. Everything else, as on our ships, is only in export performance. From what is published on the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau website, they will get very good boats, no worse, and even better than ours.

Why they threw the Black Sea Fleet, I have not figured out this secret, it remains covered in darkness. Maybe the ships of the project 20385 will go to the Black Sea Fleet, after all, they will work in Syria, and this is far from the near sea zone for which the project 20380 is sharpened. You still have to swim to it, but we have problems with the Kolomna diesel engines. In the open press about this not gu-gu, but in public commentators, devoted to the details of the operation of these unique (in the literal sense of the word) devices, say that they are regular customers of repair plants, and they cannot sail far from them. Maybe our Moremans are waiting for the results of the work of a new gas turbine unit based on the Yaroslavl M90FR gas turbine engines installed on the lead corvette of the project 20386 "Mercury", but it has not even been launched yet (I do not even stutter about sea trials).

Personally, only one fact surprises me, the 7th and 8th buildings were laid down at the Severnaya Verf shipyard under the names Zetivy and Strogiy on 20.02.2015/1007/1008 (serial numbers 7 and 8), as a result they have not yet been built ( Hull 22.07.2015 has been launched, is preparing for mooring trials, Hull 9 is just preparing to launch in May this year). At the same time, the 2103th corps was laid down at the Amur Shipyard six months later on July 5, 6, which was named Hero of the Russian Federation Aldar Tsydenzhapov (serial number XNUMX) - it is already in service, serving in the Pacific Ocean. It took XNUMX years to build, but the Zealous and the Strict were not even XNUMX years old. At the same time, this business was put on stream at Severnaya Verf, and for the Amur people it was only the third ship of this project. It is clear that the problem is not with the producers. And no one knows what the matter is. So do I.

Thundering fire, sparkling with brilliance of steel ...


Let me summarize briefly. If the Algerian Navy received the most armed ships in its class and are happy about this, becoming the most formidable naval power in Africa, then for Russia there are completely different tasks. Do not forget that Algeria got Project 20380 corvettes, and these are ships of the near sea zone. For Algeria just right - they have nowhere to swim especially. We need to convey our weighty word with a small pennant far beyond the seas that wash our power along the perimeter, we need ships of the oceanic zone. But the pockets of the Motherland are not bottomless. Therefore, we are going to solve the set task by saturating the 2nd rank ships with fire, but capable of operating autonomously in the distant sea and oceanic zones. As you may have guessed, we are talking about corvettes.

Corvettes. In the Soviet Union, even the class of such ships did not exist. This is all a tribute to the newfangled Western gadgets. According to the NATO classification, they have corvettes, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, and even aircraft carriers. We had MPK (small anti-submarine ships) and BOD (large anti-submarine ships) for anti-submarine defense; TFR of the 3rd rank (small patrol ships of the near sea zone) and TFR of the 2nd rank (patrol ships of the far sea zone) for carrying out patrol service, escort, solving problems of air defense, anti-aircraft defense, participation in landing operations; We had, of course, cruisers, destroyers, and landing ships, there were not only aircraft carriers, we called them aircraft-carrying cruisers (now there is only one left - the flagship of the Navy and Northern Fleet TAVKR "Admiral Kuznetsov"). Now life makes us build frigates and corvettes instead of aging and retiring Soviet cruisers and destroyers, saturating them with the firepower of heavier ships in displacement, and forcing them to perform their functions, which were previously unusual for them. And cruising and raiding (in autonomous solo voyage); and on combat escort and escort of a group of ships (as part of ship formations); and on the demonstration of the flag and the power of the Russian fleet in different parts of the oceans (I'm just talking about the surface fleet now, with the underwater fleet, thank God, not everything is so bad, there is more to threaten the Swede, or rather the Yankees). So, instead of patrol boats of the near and far sea zones, corvettes and frigates appeared, but with expanded functions and tasks of application.

We can say that we have finally made up our minds and have chosen a strategic vector for the development of the surface component of our Navy. In the coming years, we are focusing on saturating rank 2 ships with fire and increasing their range. We are creating a heavy oceanic corvette (you can call it a light frigate or even a light destroyer) and launch it into production. In parallel, we are working on improving the power plant of the gas turbine type. BNK of the 1st rank will also be present here, but there is no need to talk about large series. For the next 30-40 years, the corvette will become the backbone of the Russian fleet.

By the way, our enemies are also following this path and are in no hurry to churn out new destroyers and cruisers, focusing on multipurpose universal strike frigates. The cost of our project 20380 corvette is around 17-18 billion rubles. Project 20386 will cost us almost 2 times more - 29 billion rubles. But this is the lead corvette, the serial one will be cheaper, in the region of 24-25 billion rubles. And with him we will threaten the Swede, or rather the Yankees. Get ready, comrade. imperialists! There are hundreds of ways to drive a bear out of a den, but there is no single way to drive it back. If Americans want to test this statement for themselves, then welcome to hell!

That's all for me. Sorry if I'm tired of anyone.
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  2. Polente the Wanderer 27 March 2021 16: 21
    +1
    According to the data (so or not?) Mil.Press FLOT (All data from flot.com) in 2019 we had 230 ships, the USA = 243. But in terms of combat capabilities ("a generalized indicator of military parity, expressing the ratio of the number and combat power of the ship composition ") we have 49% against 100% of the USA. In 2019, China has 361 ships and 93%, respectively.
    Taking into account the fact that the basis of our (in the future?) Fleet is a corvette (built from 5 years), the Yankees have a destroyer (2-3 per year), the picture is painful. Although what is considered the basis. In terms of the number of Yankees in "2019, 57 nuclear submarines, 68 destroyers, 21 cruisers. We have 65 MPKs, boats, 36 MRKs, 19 diesel submarines, 13 frigates, 15 corvettes. "
    Heavy industry (shipbuilding in particular) probably uses manual labor, therefore, the productivity is small and, accordingly, it turns out to be long and expensive to build.
    So, will we threaten someone or go into a deep defense, an autopsy will show. The ocean is not land, partisan will not work
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 27 March 2021 19: 05
      -3
      the statistics you still have - did not find our atomic submarine in it (SSGN, SSBN, SSBN and other nuclear submarines), we still have missile cruisers from Soviet times (there is also an aircraft carrier aircraft carrier Kuznetsov), there are fewer frigates, corvettes too (I have mean in the ranks), BDK, BOD, TFR also did not see, in general, left statistics. The cost of production decreases with an increase in the series, the ship is a hand-assembled product, piece production, you cannot put on the conveyor
      1. Polente the Wanderer 28 March 2021 15: 51
        0
        Along with Mil.Press Military, Mil.Press FlotProm and other publications, it is a member of the military information group Mil.Press. Mass media registration certificate No. FS77-39156 dated March 11.03.2010, XNUMX, issued by the Federal Service for Supervision of Communications, Information Technology and Mass Media.
  3. Scharnhorst Offline Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst (Scharnhorst) 27 March 2021 18: 16
    +2
    In my opinion, a regular reader of the maritime theme, reliance on frigates and corvettes is currently a necessary measure. We still cannot master larger ships either economically or theoretically. Therefore, we are modernizing Soviet projects 1143, 1144, 1164, 1155. a new first rank is too tough - we are building corvettes and frigates with overcoming the difficulties of import substitution of power plants and gearboxes, we are creating "Polyment-Redut" and VNEU for submarines. But the main strategic mistake of the Soviet legacy is being solved, when, after the conclusion of the INF Treaty, the country was left without this class of weapons for many troubled years, and the United States could have them in the fleet on almost all cruisers, destroyers and non-strategic nuclear submarines. Now our fleet also has to become the main carrier of short- and medium-range missiles (all new RTOs of two types; corvettes; frigates; submarines and nuclear submarines) to the detriment of the demands of a purely naval confrontation with foreign counterparts of the same type. Now the INF Treaty has sunk into oblivion, the United States and the EU do not hold back anything from the revival of this class of missiles in the European theater of operations, and if we do not now fill this gap in the American model and likeness, placing missiles even on icebreakers and barges, then at one fine moment, with the appearance of such missiles near Tallinn and Kharkov, we will find ourselves unarmed in front of a preventive disarming missile strike from a potential enemy.
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 27 March 2021 19: 13
      -3
      On your question, I will quote my correspondence with a recent reader:

      So, comrade. Siad, I read about superKarakurt, I answer - not a competitor to corvettes 20386, imprisoned for BMZ (near sea zone), but we need DMZ (distant) and OZ (oceanic), its main task is PLO, OVR (protection of the water area) - covering the area deployment of submarines at the time of their departure from the bases. That does not negate its necessity, the MPK park is aging, goes into utilization, the TFR is also not getting younger.

      Regarding RTOs, the author does not understand why they were built in such a quantity. What betrays a narrow specialist in him - a PLO moreman, not a rocket officer. The whole trick, dear comrade. Siad, that RTOs carry tactical nuclear weapons of retaliation Caliber-NK with a coverage radius of up to 2,5 thousand officially, and unofficially, I will tell you a secret, up to 4 thousand km. And woe to our enemies, who know every little about all our silos of ground-based strategic ballistic missiles (ground triad of nuclear weapons) and can cover them in time with a preemptive strike, carriers of sea-based cruise calibers (and in the future, hypersonic Zircons with a range of up to 10 Thousand km) it is impossible to cover, due to their constant movement, and in the case of RTOs, this is possible not only in inland seas such as the Caspian, but also along rivers, and this is already a complete scribe for our enemies. Diesel-electric submarines Varshavyanka solves the same tasks as MRK, but already in the DMZ, closer to the decision-making centers of our sworn friends.

      Now you understand the cunning plans of Comrade Putin? And do not you think that in the Kremlin and the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation all are completely fools and bribe-takers? We must look at things wider, comrade. Siad. Remember the speech of Comrade Putin in Munich 2007? It was necessary to answer for the market, and Vova answered. It seemed a little to no one! Obama really got sick, after 26 volleys across Syria from the Caspian Sea from some kind of inflatable mattresses that couldn't even be seen in a periscope, he retired and started writing his memoirs under the general title "I and the Genius of Crime Putin."
      On the remaining points I agree.
    2. asr55 Offline asr55
      asr55 (asr) 27 September 2021 11: 25
      -1
      Of course they were tired and even very simple with their fantasies. Why would the pkr end up in Talin? So far, even the United States does not have a DBK and is not expected. Especially in Talin. As for Kharkov, it is generally useless to install them there. DBK should be deepened 10-12 km from the coastline. And their Neptune, the prototype of the old x-35, is generally fake. The former Minister of Defense of Ukraine expressed his heart in this regard that Ukraine does not have the technical ability to create an anti-ship missile system on its own and put it into mass production. You cite the data on Destroyers Zumwalt, because this is the greatest failure in the history of the US Navy. And why did Mercury become a heavy corvette? Maybe a universal one with a larger displacement, yes, I agree, but it is very doubtful to replace the project 11356 frigate, since, for example, in Grigorovich, you can easily place two UKSK with 16 missiles. The fact that they were released without a towed GAS and an old torpedo complex can be corrected. At that time, these ships were needed in any condition. And if the ships of Project 11356 are produced today, it will be a ship much more powerful in displacement and armament. And what about Mercury ?! It is a scam of the century to build such ships in exchange for the 20385 corvettes.

      The "concept of modularity", which "justified" the project 20386, has failed in a number of countries (including the United States). At the same time, we “for some reason” ignore their successful experience in this area, for example, the MEKO concept, and all “modularity” for us boiled down to stuffing combat systems in 20 and 40 foot containers (with a significant decrease in their performance characteristics). After all - if that is the way to test this concept, then it can be done on any cheap cargo ship. So where is the real test of "our modules"? It seemed that the design of the project 20386 ship was not done by professional shipbuilders, but by diligent ship modelers.

      For some reason, the bow 100-mm artillery mount was not in front of, but behind the block of vertical launchers of the Redut anti-aircraft missile system. This know-how contradicts the norms adopted not only in domestic shipbuilding, but also in international practice.
      The innovative superstructure, reminiscent of a submarine retractable enclosure, is split in two. Between them are two quad launchers of the not very advanced Uranus anti-ship missile system, hidden behind shields. On the roof of the aft part of the superstructure, two 30-mm machine guns were placed, which are suitable for repelling pirates and shooting floating mines.

      The firing modules on the roof of the superstructure were right behind the canopies of the chimneys.
      To lift a helicopter to the surface, an elevator with a carrying capacity of at least 12 tons is required. But where can one get it if such units are not produced in Russia?
      Since one of the main tasks of corvettes is to provide anti-submarine warfare, then project 20386 should also be aimed at solving anti-submarine warfare. We already know that the Ka-27PL helicopter plays the role of the "coming dad" on the ship. Yes, it provides for side-by-side placement of two quad launchers of the Packet-NK anti-submarine / anti-torpedo protection complex. But what means give target designation to this weapon? Obviously, realizing the inferiority of the corvette's hydroacoustic equipment, its creators envisaged a modular version of the installation of the towed GAS "Minotavr". Its drum is located in the aft part of the modular compartment. But, according to experts, the corvette will not have enough search speed to use the Minotaur GAS. And all because the creators of "Mercury" decided to introduce an unusual power plant on the ship - a gas turbine with partial electric propulsion.
      Very controversial reasoning in the article, no offense.
  4. Gentlemen, why, why carry rockets with a flight range of up to 3 thousand km on ships? There is nowhere to put money? These missiles must be launched from the shore and then moved to another location to avoid retaliation!
    And the gold-driven army that eats and drinks in 4 throats on steamers - in the trash, definitely!
  5. 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 27 March 2021 23: 20
    0
    Personally, only one fact surprises me, the 7th and 8th buildings were laid down at the Severnaya Verf shipyard under the names Zetivy and Strogiy on 20.02.2015/1007/1008 (serial numbers 7 and 8), as a result they have not yet been built ( Hull 22.07.2015 has been launched, is preparing for mooring trials, Hull 9 is just preparing to launch in May this year). At the same time, the 2103th corps was laid down at the Amur Shipyard six months later on July 5, 6, which was named Hero of the Russian Federation Aldar Tsydenzhapov (serial number XNUMX) - it is already in service, serving in the Pacific Ocean. It took XNUMX years to build, but the Zealous and the Strict were not even XNUMX years old. At the same time, this business was put on stream at Severnaya Verf, and for the Amur people it was only the third ship of this project. It is clear that the problem is not with the producers. And no one knows what the matter is. So do I.

    It can be assumed that the construction of the corvettes "Zealous" and "Strogiy" was suspended due to a shortage of engines and other components; priority was given to other ships with more modern weapons. Corvettes in the Far East were built without such problems, the first two are "cats" on which they trained, mastered production. The ships coped, they looked at the Ministry of Defense, made sure that they could, and the series went on.
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 27 March 2021 23: 50
      -2
      Now, with regards to the topic of the Algerian Navy and our Black Sea Fleet. Here are links to Russian and Algerian sources where they write about it.
      https://topwar.ru/177392-stanut-samymi-opasnymi-korabljami-v-afrike-pressa-ssha-o-pokupke-alzhirom-korvetov-tipa-stereguschij.html
      https://topcor.ru/17791-rossija-gotovit-k-prodazhe-samyj-vooruzhennyj-storozhevik-v-mire.html
      https://www.menadefense.net/algerie/lalgerie-a-t-elle-commandee-des-corvettes-tigre/

      Here's the counterversion, pay attention to the armament of the 7th corps - 3S24 anti-ship missiles
      https://iz.ru/1011810/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/v-meru-retivyi-chernomorskii-flot-usiliat-nevidimym-korablem

      Tiger complete set:
      1 x missile system "Uran-E" (8 anti-ship missiles) - Var. one
      1 x missile system "Caliber-NKE" (8 missiles) or complex "Yakhont" (8 anti-ship missiles) - Var. 2 and 3
      http://www.almaz-kb.ru/products/voennogo-naznacheniya/korvety-malye-raketnye-korabli-i-raketnye-katera/malyy-storozhevoy-korabl-korvet-proekta-20382-tigr/

      There was no shortage of Kolomna diesel engines, there was a shortage of gearboxes made by PJSC Zvezda, but this is not a reason to sell ships readily 100% to Algeria. The fact that the Black Sea Fleet team has already been formed at Zealous does not mean anything. Here is an example from the Mistrals:

      September 15, 2014 UDC "Vladivostok", built by the French company STX France by order of the Russian Navy at the shipyard Chantiers de l'Atlantique in Saint-Nazaire (France), went to sea for sea trials with Russian crew on board... And already on December 18 of the same year, due to difficulties with the transfer of the ship, the Russian crew on the training ship "Smolny" departed from Saint-Nazaire for their homeland. So ingloriously for us ended our epic with the "Mistrals". Let me remind you for those who have forgotten: on June 7, 2011, during the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, a contract worth € 1 billion 120 million was signed between Rosoboronexport and the French shipbuilding company DCNS. The contract provided for the supply of two Mistral-class UDC (universal amphibious assault ships). The first ship was named "Vladivostok", the second - "Sevastopol", France was supposed to transfer them to the Russian fleet in November 2014 and October 2015, respectively. However, this did not happen for reasons beyond our control. The United States intervened in the matter and blocked the deal, pushing its decision through the gutta-percha Hollande (if anyone has forgotten, this figure was then working as President of France). As a result, France fell under penalties, a loss of business reputation (such an incident happened for the first time in its history!), And we were left without two ships that would be very useful to us now in Syria (but then no one knew about Syria, the ships were under construction in a reinforced ice class for operation in northern latitudes, including in difficult ice conditions, and were assigned to the Pacific Fleet, but the Yankees looked into the water and here we must give them their due).
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 28 March 2021 13: 57
        +1
        Maybe this is the answer to the puzzle. recourse

        but then no one knew about Syria, the ships were built in a reinforced ice class for operation in northern latitudes, including in difficult ice conditions, and were assigned to the Pacific Fleet, but the Yankees, as they looked into the water, and here it is necessary to give them due

        We did not know about Syria, but at that time the civil war was already underway. The Yankees and our military probably already knew everything, understood where they were going. The fact that the ships were built adapted to our conditions and to which fleet they were assigned in this case is not so important. For use in Syria, they would be very useful.
        We now know no more about Algeria than we did about Syria then, and a country with Russian weapons, by definition, will not have good relations with the United States and others. Maybe our military knows more and Algeria too? Are they preparing and so strengthening their military capabilities?
        We can only observe, make assumptions.
        Thanks for the links hi
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Volder Offline Volder
        Volder 30 March 2021 21: 34
        +2
        Quote: Volkonsky
        Now, with regards to the topic of the Algerian Navy and our Black Sea Fleet. Here are links to Russian and Algerian sources where they write about it.

        The director of the Severnaya Verf plant in September 2018 did not confirm the construction of corvettes for the Algerian Navy. Here is an excerpt from the interview:

        Journalist: - Is the export promotion of the project 20382 "Tiger" corvette?
        Igor Ponomarev: - Almaz and I have made export passports and advertising passports. The enterprise is ready to build corvettes 20380 and frigates 11356 for a foreign customer, there will be orders - we will build.

        As for the Algerian primary source, there are just assumptions of journalists and a reference to some unknown "source from the Algerian Navy." In general - rumors and speculation, sucked from the finger. Wishful thinking. Moreover, the Algerian Ministry of Defense has never confirmed the information about the corvettes 20380 allegedly ordered in Russia. There is no confirmation from the Russian Ministry of Defense, the Navy and Severnaya Verf either.
  6. marciz Offline marciz
    marciz (Stas) 28 March 2021 01: 03
    -4
    As always, feeble-minded Kremlin prisoners obscure the eyes and consciousness of the people, now with corvettes and frigates hahahahaha !!!
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 28 March 2021 07: 29
      -4
      Do you prefer US aircraft carriers and destroyers? and why did you decide that you are the people?
      1. marciz Offline marciz
        marciz (Stas) 28 March 2021 20: 53
        0
        Patamushta I'm from the USSR !!!!! Got it and this is one of my 15 republics !!!!! Even though I live in Ukraine !!!
        1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Vladimir) 28 March 2021 22: 45
          -3
          so what? I also live in Ukraine, and I also come from the USSR
          1. marciz Offline marciz
            marciz (Stas) 29 March 2021 00: 22
            -1
            They will hand over Russia they hand over the bill my heart !!!! ((((
  7. AICO Offline AICO
    AICO (Vyacheslav) 28 March 2021 12: 02
    +4
    Quote: Scharnhorst
    We cannot master larger ships yet.

    But yachts for bl. mastered pretty well!
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 28 March 2021 13: 58
      -1
      But yachts for bl. mastered pretty well!

      And at what shipyard do we build yachts?
  8. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 March 2021 13: 13
    +3
    The author is an ill-mannered couch warrior who writes outright nonsense. Compared to the universal frigates 11356, which he called outdated, the non-universal corvettes 20386, which are built at the price of 22350 heavy frigates, are useless, expensive and worthless buckets. It is a pity that now it is impossible to put a MINUS on openly mediocre articles.
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 28 March 2021 16: 32
      -6
      DLB BLD - Sergey Lavrov said about you

      As part of the Russian Navy, corvettes of project 20386 will be able to fully replace frigates of project 11356. Vladimir Tryapichnikov, head of the shipbuilding, armaments and operation of the Navy, told Mil.Press FlotProm about this on Thursday, May 30, at the launching ceremony of the minesweeper "Vladimir Emelyanov" of the project 12700 (code "Alexandrite").

      https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%92%D0%BC%D1%8412/
      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 March 2021 16: 34
        +4
        Mr. Lavrov and you need to mind your own business and not get involved in military issues, in which you understand no more than my cat
        1. Polente the Wanderer 28 March 2021 20: 28
          +2
          The work is paid. Contact: [email protected]

          Perhaps that is why the authors place their articles in all kinds of publications where they were accepted, because this is only the opinion of the individual author and the publishers say that they are not responsible for the articles.
          1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
            Volkonsky (Vladimir) 28 March 2021 22: 59
            -3
            what exactly do you disagree with? I already had the good fortune to be convinced of your knowledge in naval affairs. If you don't like something - here's the paper, write better!
        2. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Vladimir) 28 March 2021 23: 02
          -4
          The author is an ill-mannered couch warrior who writes outright nonsense. Compared to the universal frigates 11356, which he called outdated, the non-universal corvettes 20386, which are built at the price of 22350 heavy frigates, are useless, expensive and worthless buckets. It is a pity that now it is impossible to put a MINUS on openly mediocre articles.

          As part of the Russian Navy, corvettes of project 20386 will be able to fully replace frigates of project 11356. Vladimir Tryapichnikov, head of the shipbuilding, armaments and operation of the Navy, told Mil.Press FlotProm about this on Thursday, May 30, at the launching ceremony of the minesweeper "Vladimir Emelyanov" of the project 12700 (code "Alexandrite").

          compare your statement with the words of Rear Admiral Tryapichnikov.
  9. Polente the Wanderer 28 March 2021 15: 46
    +1
    Data from https://flot.com/nowadays/structure/techreadiness/2019/

    1. Tektor Offline Tektor
      Tektor (Tektor) 29 March 2021 13: 42
      -2
      Fleets cannot be compared only in terms of numbers. The combat effectiveness of individual elements must be taken into account. In particular, the presence of Zircon dramatically changes the balance of forces. And the presence of underwater robots makes such comparisons simply conditional. And you can finally understand the relationship only when you access intelligence information about situational awareness. For example, if we can track the position of any enemy ship, then the advantage will be on our side regardless of the other parameters, since at any time, you can send aircraft with anti-ship missiles for target designation.
  10. Polente the Wanderer 28 March 2021 16: 16
    +3
    the ship is a hand-made product, piece production, you cannot put on the conveyor

    But how can China and the United States build destroyers faster than we do corvettes? Korea (South) is generally one of the leaders in civil shipbuilding. In the case of China, the author of the article may say that there are a lot of them, but others are building due to block manufacturing, widespread use of work automation
  11. Volder Offline Volder
    Volder 28 March 2021 23: 07
    +3
    Quote: Volkonsky
    judging by the Algerian contract, Project 20380 corvettes will definitely not go to the Black Sea Fleet.

    There is no Algerian contract. There is no official confirmation of this - neither from Algeria, nor from Russia.

    To close the issue with Algeria, I can only say that, apparently, the command decided to sacrifice two corps (7th and 8th)

    What does "most likely" mean? Are you not sure what you are talking about yourself?

    Indeed, from the 8th corps, it is planned to replace the 3S24 "Uran" anti-ship complex installed on the corvette, equipped with subsonic anti-ship missiles Kh-35U, with the UKSK 3S14, designed for supersonic "Onyxes" and winged "Caliber-NK".

    On the ninth building "Hero of the Russian Federation Aldar Tsydenzhapov" 8 launchers "Uran-U" with X-35 anti-ship missiles are installed.

    It became clear from the Algerian press

    If the Algerian press does not continue to publish misinformation, of course, it cannot. The author's blind faith in their 100% honesty makes you smile.

    they are waiting for two to six Tiger ships

    The Severnaya Verf Tigry plant is not currently building.

    The Algerian Navy received the most armed ships in its class and are happy about it ...

    So far, they haven't received anything.
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 29 March 2021 00: 22
      -3
      On the ninth building "Hero of the Russian Federation Aldar Tsydenzhapov" 8 launchers "Uran-U" with X-35 anti-ship missiles are installed.

      Well, you yourself have answered the question posed. So it was building number 7.

      Separate changes were made to the project starting from the second building. The Kortik-M air defense missile system has been replaced with a new medium-range air defense missile system with vertical launch systems, and from the eighth it is planned to replace the Uran anti-ship complex with Onyx or Caliber, also with UVP.

      This is the official information of TsMKB Almaz

      According to media reports dated November 24, 2020, Algeria intends to buy three Project 20380 corvettes of the "Guarding" type for its Navy. [31]
      https://rg.ru/2020/11/25/rossijskie-korvety-mogut-stat-samymi-groznymi-korabliami-v-afrike.html
      https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/africas-most-dangerous-surface-combatants-algeria-to-receive-heavily-armed-russian-steregushchiy-class-missile-corvettes
      1. Volder Offline Volder
        Volder 30 March 2021 21: 21
        +2
        Quote: Volkonsky
        So it was building number 7.

        "Hero of the Russian Federation Aldar Tsydenzhapov" is NOT 7th building.

        Quote: Volkonsky
        This is the official information of TsMKB Almaz

        Information from the past. This was previously planned. But in fact it turned out what it did: on the ninth building of "Aldar Tsydenzhapov" launchers with "Uranus" were installed.

        According to media reports dated November 24, 2020, Algeria intends to buy three Project 20380 corvettes of the "Guarding" type for its Navy.

        https://rg.ru/ можно не считать - это всего лишь перепечатка. Что же касается militarywatchmagazine.com, то изложенный там текст сильно смахивает на выдачу желаемого за действительное. Не приведены ссылки на "ряд местных новостных агентств" (каких?), не понятно, какое должностное лицо ВМС Алжира это подтвердило. Также нет подтверждения с российской стороны о том, что 2 корвета строятся для Алжира. Такое ощущение, что безответственная редакция тупо повторяет информацию от 2015 года. По крайней мере, никаких новых подробностей не сообщается. Хотя за 5 лет должно было что-то всплыть. Всё это выглядит очень несерьёзно. До тех пор, пока мы не услышим официальных объявлений от официальных лиц, представляющих официальные государственные структуры (или хотя бы завод-изготовитель), данная новость о продаже будет считаться фейком.
  12. Polente the Wanderer 29 March 2021 17: 20
    +3
    The topic of the state of the Navy is very important.
    But if the author of the article claims that the data from Mil.Press is "generally left-wing statistics.", Then he himself quotes Ryapichny's words published in Mil.Press to confirm his article.
    Then he begins to bicker with the readers.
    That claims that "our enemies are also following this path and are in no hurry to churn out new destroyers and cruisers, focusing on multipurpose universal strike frigates." What US frigates are we talking about? And who are "our enemies" according to the author?
    The main thing is to get paid for the article?
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 29 March 2021 21: 17
      -4
      The United States took a European frigate as the basis for its new ship. Who are our enemies - the Americans. I do not argue with Mill Press, I argue with you when you give inaccurate figures from there (look for yourself at the zinc Mill Press, cited by you above, and then compare with what you yourself wrote at the beginning)
      1. Polente the Wanderer 30 March 2021 19: 25
        0
        Initially, it was not about the accuracy of the numbers (the total number and combat capabilities are given in full) and a full-fledged comparison, but about the development trend of our fleet. Because it would be even more painful if we were to compare aircraft carriers and everything else. everything appeared on emotions, and not because you bothered to immediately look at this table on the website flot.com.
        But it is better not to engage in shapkozakidatelstom like "welcome to hell!", And to really look at the state of affairs.
        Yes, we do not have the money and opportunities that the Yankees have.
        But why not raise the question of what is holding us back: What is the level of automation in shipbuilding?
        Are there specific types (or 380,385,386,22350,22350M) of ships in all categories that will be serially built?
        1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 March 2021 22: 12
          -1
          I have not seen in your statistics submarines of all types, cruisers of the 1st rank, destroyers of the 1st rank, even owls. buildings (although they were in the screenshot of the table below), therefore I doubted the reliability of the facts. With regards to the general state of affairs in our Navy, it is awful, especially against the background of China's gaining power, which bakes rank 1 ships like pancakes. We are facing cyclopean difficulties in rebuilding our surface fleet (thanks to EBN, we are reaping the benefits of the 90s, we just killed the fleet). With the submarine, not everything is so bad, but against the background of the United States and China, it is also not ice. The Britons also killed their fleet, now they are rebuilding. I'll write an article about this a little later.
          1. Volder Offline Volder
            Volder 31 March 2021 20: 02
            0
            Quote: Volkonsky
            ... that's why I doubted the veracity of the facts

            For some reason, you have no doubts about the reliability of information about the sale of corvettes. A very convenient position: wherever you want, you doubt, where you don’t want, you don’t doubt. Apparently depends on your mood lol

            ... the state of affairs in our navies

            The Russian fleet is called the Navy.
      2. Polente the Wanderer 30 March 2021 19: 36
        0
        Get ready, comrade. imperialists!

        If you haven't noticed, capitalism has been in Russia since 1991.
        "Imperialism as the Highest Stage of Capitalism // Lenin, V. I. Complete collection of works, 5th ed. Moscow, 1962. Vol. 27, pp. 386–387
        1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 March 2021 22: 14
          0
          we have capitalism, they have imperialism, we are all rolling into postmodernism - into feudalism, it’s easier for us, we are not far away. The Russian Federation can avoid this, you have a strong hand, maybe state capitalism with elements of socialism
  13. Vasiliev Denis Offline Vasiliev Denis
    Vasiliev Denis (Vasiliev Denis) 31 March 2021 13: 23
    0
    if the 7th corps means "Zealous". Then according to the latest reports, he still goes to the Black Sea Fleet. https://topwar.ru/181479-na-severnoj-verfi-nazvali-sroki-peredachi-vmf-korveta-retivyj-proekta-20380.html
    1. Volder Offline Volder
      Volder 31 March 2021 20: 07
      0
      Quote: Denis Vasiliev
      https://topwar.ru/181479-na-severnoj-verfi-nazvali-sroki-peredachi-vmf-korveta-retivyj-proekta-20380.html

      Finally, the official information has arrived! The project 20380 corvette Retivy, built at Severnaya Verf, will be transferred to the Navy by the end of 2021. This was stated by the general director of the enterprise Igor Orlov. More details - on your link.
      PS The author Volkonsky will now declare that this is a hoax, that the Russian side cannot be trusted, because Volkonsky is always right and cannot be mistaken in his conclusions.
  14. Friend of the People_2 (Kirill Vetrov) 31 March 2021 18: 09
    0
    All is well, but there would be a top with pictures and photos with the names of what it is and performance characteristics. Most, like me, do not see the difference between a battleship and a corvette.
    1. Vasiliev Denis Offline Vasiliev Denis
      Vasiliev Denis (Vasiliev Denis) 31 March 2021 18: 37
      0
      here is a cycle of three articles. some of them were described. but in fact probably writing about "battleships" is not the topic of this resource. for this there are specialized resources such as Military Review, with its knowledgeable public. there is always a showdown in the comments)))))))
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. 2534 Offline 2534
    2534 April 9 2021 10: 55
    0
    We will most likely say goodbye to the light frigates of Project 11356R.

    fool
    in fact, these ships will serve in the Navy for another 20 years
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. 2534 Offline 2534
    2534 April 9 2021 11: 02
    0
    As a result, the corvettes of this family have turned out to be the most innovative and technically advanced ships of our Navy. The modular principle has turned them into a kind of transformer ships, when each subsequent ship may differ from the previous one, depending on the tasks facing it.

    20385 for UKSK "shoveled" from 20380 ALL - from the bow to the stern
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Sergey 1956 Offline Sergey 1956
    Sergey 1956 (Sergey) April 16 2021 13: 57
    0
    The author is an absolute layman in this matter !!!!!!!!!!
  21. Anchonsha Offline Anchonsha
    Anchonsha (Anchonsha) 10 May 2021 10: 20
    0
    In terms of the number of ships, we will never have the opportunity to equal the West, so we need to take quality, both in armament with higher technologies, and in the creation of ships with a higher technological level. And for this, education and science should prevail in our society. In addition, it is necessary to forcibly stop the outflow of our specialists, scientists over the hill, the so-called people of the "world" such as our artists, raised at the expense of the state and working in their art at the expense of the treasury, but turning up their nose from the Motherland because there is a lot of purchased real estate behind the hill.