Why the project of the super-heavy launch vehicle "Yenisei" is postponed


The year 2021 began with not the best information for the domestic cosmonautics. The project of the super-heavy launch vehicle "Yenisei", intended for flights to the earth's satellite, is being shelved. Does this mean that you can already forget about the Moon of Russia?


The Yenisei was to become the first Russian super-heavy rocket with a launch weight of 3167 tons, created after the collapse of the USSR. It was she who was envisaged as the main "workhorse" for the second stage of the Russian Lunar program by 2028. By adding a third to its two stages, it was planned to produce an even more powerful Don rocket. The cost of the program was estimated at 1,5 trillion rubles. And the other day there was a report of the Council for Science of the Russian Academy of Sciences, which recommended postponing the creation of the Yenisei. What conclusions can be drawn from this?

This event is assessed in different ways. According to one version, "Roskosmos" itself "leaked" the super-heavy rocket, because it is not able to pull this project out. At the end of last year, the head of the state corporation Dmitry Rogozin announced that he would build Yenisei on the basis of existing of technologies a bit early, a fundamentally new main engine is needed. The idea of ​​the need to make the rocket reusable was also voiced. And so the Council of Academicians spoke, who have no direct relation to this project, but expressed their authoritative opinion, to which Roscosmos immediately joined. It is possible that there really is some truth in this hypothesis about the "drain".

At first, the state corporation is forced to work under conditions of constant sequestration of budgetary spending on space. One "Yenisei" costs as much as "Roscosmos" receives money in 10 years. They can all be put into one rocket, but the moon will not get any closer from this. In 2015, de facto, our entire lunar program was curtailed: the expenditures for the development of takeoff and landing modules and other equipment necessary for research and development of an earth satellite were cut. With this approach, the "lunar program" becomes not so much a real scientific as a populist project. And this is a big question for the management of the state corporation, since it is desirable that it be managed by specialists with specialized education who clearly understand what they are doing and why.

Secondly, Russia will still be able to reach the moon. At the end of 2020, the Angara-A5 heavy launch vehicle successfully launched. It still needs to fly and fly, but it can be used both in the creation of a national orbital station, and for flight to an earth satellite according to a complex scheme with docking. If we put the super-expensive Yenisei on the back burner, focusing on realistic tasks, we will be able to maintain certain positions in space.

There is another, slightly more optimistic version of the abandonment of Yenisei. For the next decade, there are no real tasks for a super-heavy rocket, the Angara-A5 will be enough. But I am glad that the academicians do not intend to completely close the Yenisei, instead they propose to single out a separate lunar subprogram "Space activities of Russia". This project is an extremely complex technically science-intensive task.

Even if development work on documentation, new materials and technologies continues in subsequent years, this will allow preserving the domestic engineering school, training specialists who can return to the creation of a super-heavy rocket at a better time, when the country's financial capabilities will allow the implementation of more ambitious tasks. Space technologies developed at the same time can find application in related industries, for example, in aircraft construction, as well as in the defense complex.

The decision to postpone Yenisei for the future cannot please, since it is forced. But so far there are no other options to realize it on our own. Perhaps in international cooperation, but not with the US, EU or China, but with some India, which has its own space ambitions.
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  1. mark1 Offline mark1
    mark1 15 January 2021 12: 45
    +1
    The rejection of superheavy is a terrible blow to the Russian cosmonautics. It is not necessary to curtail programs, it is necessary to make financing stable and progressive and not cut. It is strange that gentlemen of the academician do not understand this. They would be highly intelligent gentlemen to demand from the government and the president not to cut the financing of Russian space, to give it the status of a strategically important direction of development, and they decide how to cut a hundred hats out of one leaky skin and leave them on insoles. Arguments that for a rocket there is no load are crafty - no rocket, no load - there is a rocket right away you can not limit yourself in the design of PN, see the development prospects and not fantasize like now. Bitter and insulting.
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 15 January 2021 13: 22
      0
      Quote: mark1
      The reasoning that there is no load for a rocket is crafty - there is no rocket, no load - there is a rocket right away, you can not limit yourself in the design of PN, see the development prospects and not fantasize like now. Bitter and insulting.

      It's a shame, yes. What we have, we have.
    2. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 15 January 2021 14: 03
      +1
      Arguments that there is no load for a rocket are crafty - no rocket, no load - there is a rocket right away, you can not limit yourself in designing the PN

      So there is still a load? Or will we make a rocket, then spend "a little more" on developing what can be transported on it? In designing yourself, you probably can not limit yourself, but it will be difficult to use. Expensive all the same.
    3. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 15 January 2021 16: 00
      +1
      It is strange that the gentlemen of the academician do not understand this.

      The RAS does not deal with launch vehicles at all. it at most (and even then on the sidelines) participates in the development of the AMS.

      The RAS, most likely, issued this statement at the request of Roscosmos, whose leadership realized that Russia alone would not be able to create a superheavy. And since this has already been proclaimed in triumphant tones, an open refusal to implement the project on time will further worsen the already shaky reputation of the Roskosmos leadership.

      So this statement was a kind of lightning rod - they say, scientists advise, let's listen to them and put it off. This is how we can do everything on time, but since the scientists said ...

      The reasoning that there is no load for a rocket is crafty - there is no rocket, no load - there is a rocket right away, you can not limit yourself in the design of PN, see the development prospects and not fantasize like now. Bitter and insulting.

      I totally agree.
  2. Indifferent Offline Indifferent
    Indifferent 15 January 2021 14: 00
    +3
    A very smart decision. There is a flight plan to the Moon by docking three modules into one ship, which will fly to the Moon. And modules, 37 tons each, can be put into orbit by the "Angara 5V", which is in demand and will certainly be brought to mind. This rocket is needed for heavy stationary satellites. It's like a fallback. Given the current trends in world development, not a single country in the world, including China, can build a huge and super expensive rocket. We need to spend money on the development of all other elements of the lunar program. And this is the landing stage, the lunar module, the returned part of the ship. It would not hurt to launch one more "lunar tractor" to study the surface at the landing site of the astronauts. (After all, the Americans flew there only in the dreams of Hollywood). When all this is done, it is tested and shows that it is capable of flying, then there may be money for a super heavy rocket. And this is already the 30s, not earlier. There is a crisis ahead and only fools do not understand this!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. General Secretary (General Secretary) 22 January 2021 10: 55
      0
      The multi-start scheme is much more complicated and risky.
  3. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 15 January 2021 16: 00
    -1
    Was the first part of the article inspired by the interview with Moiseenko? :) Just read it yesterday.
  4. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 15 January 2021 16: 02
    -1
    A not very successful photo was put at the beginning of the article, Mr. Marzhetsky, given the sad fate of the Soviet H-1 (this is it).
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 January 2021 11: 28
      0
      I personally select not all photos.
  5. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 15 January 2021 17: 54
    0
    Over the past 10 years, the Russian budget has not increased "by a ruble". Although the dollar has doubled. Approximately 20 trillion rubles. the budget of Russia for the year. While we are paying tribute to the United States, what kind of lunar program can we talk about. We only need space for defense! Of course, it's a shame for the Power, but if the government doesn't have a headache, I won't do anything. Mikhail Kovalchuk, the president of the Kurchatov Institute, spoke in such a way that no one dared to object.

    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 15 January 2021 20: 23
      -1
      Over the past 10 years, the Russian budget has not increased "by a ruble". Although the dollar has doubled. Approximately 20 trillion rubles. the budget of Russia for the year.

      Are you still celebrating? belay Budget revenues and expenses have been growing for ten years.

      minfin.gov.ru

      What other tribute? The Baskaki haven't come for a long time.

      We only need space for defense!

      First of all, yes. yes

      Of course, it's a shame for the Power, but if the government doesn't have a headache, I won't do anything.

      Could you? sad

      Mikhail Kovalchuk, the president of the Kurchatov Institute, spoke in such a way that no one dared to object.

      They listened to Kovalchuk, agreed with everything, realized the threat, realized that space is needed primarily for defense, and ..... the conclusion followed - give the Lunar program and a glass on the floor ... smile
  6. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 15 January 2021 18: 31
    0
    Considering that they promised to reach the moon in 2015, and since then the deadlines have been pushed back every year ...
    Then this is all crap to calm the erectorate. Let them stick to news promises, since there is no money.
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 15 January 2021 20: 06
      -1
      Considering that they promised to reach the moon in 2015, and since then the deadlines have been pushed back every year ...
      Then this is all crap to calm the erectorate. Let them stick to news promises, since there is no money.

      Americans with simpler money, the Lunar Program is 15 years old, "sleepwalkers" still have not appeared. Yes, the eRectorate cannot be reassured by promises, the potency must be suppressed somehow winked
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 16 January 2021 10: 52
        -1
        A little bit, nodding at the Amerov - it is evident that many have already become a habit.

        Did they also plan to reach the moon in 2015?
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) 16 January 2021 14: 16
          -1
          Did they also plan to reach the moon in 2015?

          Yes, in 2004 they opened the "Constellation" program, within the framework of which expeditions to the moon were planned no later than 2020.

          A little bit, nodding at the Amerov - it is evident that many have already become a habit.

          Well, it's 123, he has a fad.
          1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
            Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 16 January 2021 17: 07
            -1
            Thank you, I didn’t look for it myself.
        2. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) 16 January 2021 15: 43
          +1
          A little bit, nodding at the Amerov - it is evident that many have already become a habit.

          Golden words good I will remind you of them more than once laughing

          Did they also plan to reach the moon in 2015?

          You might be surprised ... repeat

          President Bush has unveiled a new vision for space exploration, urging NASA to "gain a foothold on the moon and prepare for new voyages to worlds beyond our own."
          .....
          “Our third goal,” Bush said, “is to get back to the moon by 2020 as a starting point for further missions.” He proposed to send robotic probes to the lunar surface by 2008, and in 2015 - with a human mission, "To live and work there for longer periods of time."

          https://www.nasa.gov/missions/solarsystem/bush_vision.html
          1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
            Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 16 January 2021 17: 07
            -1
            Thank you, reminded.
            True, there is a bush, a politician, and "He suggested ...." think whether we will or not, and did not give the order and.
            And we have the Director of Roscosmos. Former.
            1. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) 16 January 2021 18: 32
              +1
              True, there is a bush, a politician, and "He suggested ...." think whether we will or not, and did not give the order and.

              Do not make me laugh laughing They just offered me modestly, but here he indicated and gave instructions. They didn’t succeed well, okay, we must answer to the fullest extent. winked
              What do you mean offered? This is a program for which, by the way, serious money was allocated, if I am not mistaken, only in 2004 - 14 billion. Not any "think whether we will or not."
              By the way, the plans were:

              2004-2008 - development of a manned spacecraft that will replace the shuttles and will be able to deliver astronauts to the ISS and the Moon (Constellation program)

              And also not free. Remind me how and when did Musk celebrate the sending of astronauts to the ISS?

              And we have the Director of Roscosmos. Former.

              What are you saying smile Rogozin has been running Roscosmos since 2018. The third year has gone. winked Do you propose to shoot him for the plans that were not implemented until 2015? smile
              1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
                Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 16 January 2021 23: 04
                -1
                1) Right there yesterday, like, (or on VO) there was an article, as their presidents say in public. And they say a lot. Pathetics for weekly inspiration, without clear plans. Which by the way can be seen in your quote. "He offered...."
                2) And where is Rogozin? He could be imprisoned for his own.
                And then there were their untouchable promises,
                1. 123 Offline 123
                  123 (123) 16 January 2021 23: 48
                  +1
                  Immediately yesterday, it seems, (or on VO) there was an article, as their presidents say in public. And they say a lot. Pathetics for weekly inspiration, without clear plans.

                  As I understand the essence of the claims against Putin, what is he saying wrong? Need to say I propose and that's it? Well, no plans to approve winked You think that the American president is so, he was just passing by. Say what are you doing here? But it is understandable ... Or maybe you are flying to the moon, I just suggest it ... And our naturally tsar, walking around with a formidable air, gives out instructions, then the boyars do not carry them out, and therefore all the stake together with the king. smile

                  He could be imprisoned for his own.

                  What for example? Is there a specific crime committed by Rogozin? Do not hesitate to speak.

                  And then there were their untouchable promises,

                  Interestingly you do it. If they promised with three boxes and in the end did not do it, then it's okay. It seems that they did not even promise, but simply offered, so they did not do well, okay. And no one needs to be punished, because there is nothing.
                  And we just didn’t do it, everyone to the wall. By the way, I don’t remember that Putin would swear by his mother or give a grudge, that, they say, nosebleed, but on the 15th, Russian bast shoes will set foot on the moon. Can you remind me when and where it happened?
                  Why do we need to plant our promissed ones, there are no American ones?
                  1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
                    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 17 January 2021 13: 55
                    -1
                    1) They did not understand anything and for some reason turned to Putin.

                    2) Specifically - no. Untouchable .. Even stillborn projects that cost a lot are "non-specific".
                    The Accounts Chamber and the security forces at Roscosmos find violations for billions of dollars every year, but this is not a specific crime, is it? And I don't work there, there are no details ..

                    3) Again they turned on Putin. You cannot be right without it. A manual?
                    1. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 17 January 2021 14: 02
                      +1
                      They did not understand anything and for some reason turned to Putin. A manual?

                      Did I turn? belay Themselves sorted out where, as presidents, give instructions. so look on the Internet as our name. sad

                      Specifically, no. Untouchable.

                      So not or untouchable?

                      The Accounts Chamber and the security forces at Roscosmos find violations for billions of dollars every year, but this is not a specific crime, is it?

                      It is not only the Audit Chamber that finds, for specific crimes they initiate specific criminal cases.

                      As well as stillborn projects, which cost a lot.

                      Do you think the lunar program is stillborn? Although ... there is something in it. It could very well be a game ... get the enemy involved and spend trillions ...
                      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
                        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 17 January 2021 14: 06
                        -1
                        You, as a kid, change words and pretend that you do not understand.
                        You are trying to bring everything to Putin and to Putin.
                      2. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 17 January 2021 14: 08
                        +1
                        You, as a kid, change words and pretend that you do not understand.
                        You are trying to bring everything to Putin and to Putin.

                        Я belay Re-read your comments am
            2. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
              Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 January 2021 11: 27
              0
              Quote: 123
              What are you saying Rogozin has been driving Roscosmos since 2018. The third year has gone. Do you propose to shoot him for the plans that were not implemented until 2015?

              Prior to that, he was in charge of Roskosmos for many years as Deputy Prime Minister.
              1. 123 Offline 123
                123 (123) 17 January 2021 11: 47
                +1
                Prior to that, he was in charge of Roskosmos for many years as Deputy Prime Minister.

                Let's first see who walks on the moon today, who succeeded, and then we'll figure out who advised what, who supervised what.
                1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
                  Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 17 January 2021 13: 57
                  -1
                  And where does "walk"? Classically - first to achieve without people. at least that.
                  2 times recently the Chinese.
                  1. 123 Offline 123
                    123 (123) 17 January 2021 14: 07
                    +1
                    And where does "walk"? Classically - first to achieve without people. at least that.

                    So the programs provide for manned flights and so on. As far as I remember, the launch of unmanned vehicles is scheduled for next year.
                    1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
                      Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 17 January 2021 14: 14
                      -2
                      No "i" will immediately send people away without testing the technique without them. Moreover, given the current level of automation.
  • Vladest Offline Vladest
    Vladest (Vladimir) 15 January 2021 22: 33
    -2
    Russia is not like an experienced fighter. Who hits not with a fist but with spread fingers. To behave like this, you have to be very rich. But this is not Russia either. Yes, plus a lag in technology. Desire to be strong like the USA or China.
    To begin with, nevertheless, it was necessary to choose something one or a state or influence in the World. Or man, science, society against military ambitions.
    And so the space boom is now starting in the USA. I.Mask, Bezos, Artemis program. There was no manned spacecraft for them either, but it is already there and the second one is on its way. And then you look and StarShip Mask will arrive in time and much earlier than some conditional 2028.
    This is another problem of the Russian space LAGGERING ...
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 16 January 2021 18: 47
      +2
      Russia is not like an experienced fighter. Who hits not with a fist but with spread fingers. To behave like this, you have to be very rich. But this is not Russia either. Yes, plus a lag in technology. Desire to be strong like the USA or China.

      What are you talking about belay Russia is a peace-loving country, but knows how to beat. It is not necessary to beat everyone with a fist; a touch of fingers is enough for other Baltic tribes. But it doesn't. Although in my opinion it is worth spanking for a long time. The soldier will not offend the child.
      What lag in technology are you talking about? Various areas have their own leaders, and that's okay. In some ways the United States is ahead, in some ways China or Russia.

      To begin with, nevertheless, it was necessary to choose something one or a state or influence in the World. Or man, science, society against military ambitions.

      Your advice is extremely important to us smile Surely the Russian leadership will listen to them winked
      Is everything great with that? What have you chosen? State or influence in the world? smile Science or military ambitions? Share your positive experience laughing

      And so the space boom is now starting in the USA. I.Mask, Bezos, Artemis program. There was no manned spacecraft for them either, but it is already there and the second one is on its way. And then you look and StarShip Mask will arrive in time and much earlier than some conditional 2028.

      Bacchanalia and political instability are now beginning in the United States, aggravated by the economic crisis. You see, by 2028, the corroded states will appear. So don't tell us fairy tales here, we'll wait and see how spaceships ply the vastness of the theater.

      This is another problem of the Russian space LAGGERING ...

      Why are representatives of small non-states so fond of talking about our lag?
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 16 January 2021 23: 59
        -1
        for other Baltic tribes a touch of fingers is enough.

        Yeah, the USSR, entering the Winter War, also thought. that Finland will fall quickly and will not offer serious resistance. As a result, by "snapping its fingers" the Soviet Union beat off its nails.
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) 17 January 2021 00: 08
          +1
          Yeah, the USSR, entering the Winter War, also thought. that Finland will fall quickly and will not offer serious resistance. As a result, by "snapping its fingers" the Soviet Union beat off its nails.

          And, for example, in Vietnam they kicked the part of the body that they usually save, what does this prove? Or makes the Baltic underdogs stronger militarily?
          In general, pass by, go better to see how the states you adore are preparing for the inauguration at gunpoint.
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 17 January 2021 00: 20
            -1
            And Shatatovites, for example, in Vietnam kicked the part of the body that they usually save, what does this prove?

            This is exactly what proves - disdain and arrogance even for a small and seemingly weak opponent generates, let's say, unforeseen opportunities.

            Or does the Baltic undersized

            First, fight against them to be considered undersized :)

            stronger militarily?

            Ask participants in the Winter War what does and does not make a potential adversary militarily stronger.

            how the states you adore are preparing for the inauguration at gunpoint.

            I, unlike you, have no pathological desire to constantly monitor the political situation in another country.
            1. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) 17 January 2021 10: 11
              +2
              This is exactly what proves - disdain and arrogance even for a small and seemingly weak opponent generates, let's say, unforeseen opportunities.

              In this case, not any arrogance and disdain. The word seems to be superfluous here. An adversary can only be an independent "player". Eternal backsliders and beggars do not pull this role.

              First, fight against them to be considered undersized :)

              Touched by the living? laughing Kindred lackey souls touched? Well, nothing, have to be patient. Get used to it. I will continue to soak you in my own puddle. yes
              By the way, as far as I remember, we didn't switch to you. I recommend that you contact your associates in this way.

              Ask participants in the Winter War what does and does not make a potential adversary militarily stronger.

              Participants in the Winter War, if still, then a little. It is easier to find contemporaries, for example, the Somalis. These guys know the recipe for how to play football with carcasses of the invaders smile

              I, unlike you, have no pathological desire to constantly monitor the political situation in another country.

              Perhaps this is a forbidden trick on my part. Forgive me, I forgot that you are not allowed on this topic .... Times are not easy now ... Remember such a critic RezhYm Illarionov? The boy imagines himself to be a truth-teller and, out of naivety, blurted out something like - it is still unknown who the president is and it is not good to cut Trump out of social networks. As a result, the US Libertarian think tank quickly reminded the bum who is hu yes Flew out of the Cato Institute in the blink of an eye, only the sole print on the back of the trousers remained lol
              Such is the sadness crying Every cricket, remember the master's boot wink

              https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/01/13/putin-aide-turned-critic-probed-for-us-election-conspiracy-blog-a72595
        2. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
          Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 January 2021 11: 26
          +1
          Quote: Cyril
          As a result, by "snapping its fingers" the Soviet Union beat off its nails.

          The USSR then achieved many results, albeit at a high cost. And most importantly, problems were identified in the Red Army, many of which were eliminated before June 22, 1941. Unfortunately, not all of them. But without that cold winter shower, it would be much worse.
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 17 January 2021 15: 18
            0
            The USSR then achieved many results, albeit at a high cost.

            YES. But he hoped to achieve high results quickly and practically for nothing, believing that an army that has 32 light tanks and several biplanes, by definition, will not hold out for a long time against a large and powerfully armed Soviet army. In addition, before that, the Finns had not been noticed in any serious wars, so no one took them seriously as experienced and courageous soldiers.

            And then it turned out that the Finns know how to fight, and other countries suddenly organized massive aid to Finland with manpower.

            That is why I say that the USSR, who decided to snap the fingers of the Finns, beat off his fingers. Formally, of course, we won, the goals seemed to have been achieved. But the victory was, to put it bluntly, very shameful.
  • gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 16 January 2021 11: 59
    -1
    Why the project of the super-heavy launch vehicle "Yenisei" is postponed

    - Aaaa .., "Yenisei" ... - this is one of the components ... - "non-flown components"; those. - not one Yenisei will take off in the near future; there is also "Angara" and so on and so on ... - these "rivers" are not lucky ...
    - probably this is a sad tradition ... - to give "names to missiles" using the names of Siberian and Far Eastern rivers ... - expect failure ...
    - Yes, figs with these missiles ... - Here I will personally say (I can say a rather seditious thing) ... that personally I believe that ... what ... what ... that the Russian Space has simply "switched to work for China" ... - Something in Russia is somehow "moving" in the Russian Space ... for show. .. -simply create the appearance of work; and the main specialists and "resources" of the Russian Space are simply "plowing" for China ... - for the Chinese Space ... - I personally do not believe in the fantastic successful work of Chinese specialists in the field of Space ... - Something is not here then ...
    - Maybe I'm wrong ...
  • Igor Berg Offline Igor Berg
    Igor Berg (Igor Berg) 16 January 2021 21: 39
    -2
    Nifigase, 1,5 trillion .. This is Rogozin asking ... but how to calculate how much you really need ... it's time to introduce "sharashka"
  • cmonman Offline cmonman
    cmonman (Garik Mokin) 16 January 2021 23: 58
    -2
    The decision to postpone Yenisei for the future cannot please, since it is forced. But so far there are no other options to realize it on our own.

    Finally, Marzhetsky, you saw the light, understood and loudly said that the country should live (and spend!) Within its means!

    Perhaps in international cooperation, but not with the USA, EU or China, but with some India ...

    “... But not with the USA ..” - but in vain! By the way, they invited!
    “... But not with the EU ..” - and that doesn't need you!
    “... But not with China ..” - these took from you everything they could - why do they need you now, they are already ahead !!!
    “... and with some India ...” - and you shouldn't have offended India by calling it “some”! After that, they won't even invite you to do meat grinders ...!
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 17 January 2021 01: 00
      0
      Finally, Marzhetsky, you saw the light, understood and loudly said that the country should live (and spend!) Within its means!

      When will you see? winked
      1. cmonman Offline cmonman
        cmonman (Garik Mokin) 17 January 2021 01: 18
        -1
        I'm afraid not soon ...! request
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) 17 January 2021 01: 28
          +1
          I'm afraid not soon ...!

          In vain. Waking up can be painful yes
          1. cmonman Offline cmonman
            cmonman (Garik Mokin) 17 January 2021 07: 06
            -1
            In vain. Waking up can be painful

            You are right, and it will happen somewhere in the year 2050-2070, after me. Grandchildren-great-grandchildren will not have $$$ on pensions and social benefits. Options are possible - ruble and yuan in the next. 10 years will become the world currency, the US will turn off the machine and start saving. Or all the Americans (for the joy of the world!) Will have moved to Mars by this time (there will already be something on it), the Russians will forget about Crimea as a nightmare and master half-empty Florida.
            In the meantime, the Yenisei has been canceled, and Russia is “thinking for three” ...
            By the way, North Korea is building something huge ... maybe it will work out with it ...
            1. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) 17 January 2021 09: 48
              +1
              You are right, and it will happen somewhere in the year 2050-2070, after me.

              Is not a fact No. The world is changing rapidly.

              Options are possible - ruble and yuan in the next. 10 years will become the world currency,

              Rather, there will be a division into sectors (currency zones).

              USA will turn off the machine and start saving

              It will be difficult for you to live within your means, you are too used to freebies.

              Or all Americans (for the joy of the world!) Will have moved to Mars by this time (there will already be something on it)

              A very unlikely scenario. You will begin to live within your means and forget about the Moon. In addition, if they decide where to move, they will take not only everyone. request

              Russians will forget about Crimea as a nightmare and master half-empty Florida.

              Why should we forget about Crimea? belay Nice place, let you have nightmares in Washington DC winked In Florida, rake it yourself, you have been living for so many years and there are swamps all around.

              In the meantime, the Yenisei has been canceled, and Russia is “thinking for three” ...

              Enjoy the moment yes In the future, such an occasion may not appear.

              By the way, North Korea is building something huge ... maybe it will work out with it ...

              You might be wondering why not .... The country has huge potential. They were able to stop American punishers, survived, mastered rocketry on their own and made nuclear weapons. The southern part of the country, even under the heel of the occupiers, was able to become one of the leaders in shipbuilding, machine tool building, and electronics. As soon as the last Yankee is thrown into the Yellow Sea, United Korea will rise, shine with colors fellow Will become one of the leaders in the space industry ... under the wise leadership of the Kim dynasty smile laughing In the meantime, learn from experience, apparently, soon you will also clap until you turn blue when meeting Haris.
            2. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) 17 January 2021 12: 11
              +1
              By the way, about the dollar and world currencies .... Here are your European subordinates plotting. Brussels believes that world markets are too dependent on the dollar, looking for ways to reduce Europe's vulnerability to US sanctions and other financial risks, challenging the dominance of the dollar ahead of Joe Biden's inauguration. Completely blossomed laughing
              https://www.ft.com/content/20f39e33-e360-479e-82e2-5441d24f0e0b
    2. isofat Offline isofat
      isofat (isofat) 17 January 2021 01: 24
      0
      Quote: cmonman
      ... you saw the light, understood and loudly said that the country should live (and spend!) within its means!

      cmonmanNow remind me of the US debt. And most importantly, are you going to repay debts?
    3. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 January 2021 11: 24
      +1
      Quote: cmonman
      The decision to postpone Yenisei for the future cannot please, since it is forced. But so far there are no other options to realize it on our own.

      Finally, Marzhetsky, you saw the light, understood and loudly said that the country should live (and spend!) Within its means!

      Kapets, for the first time they throw one to me. Did I ever write something else? Can you justify it?
      1. cmonman Offline cmonman
        cmonman (Garik Mokin) 17 January 2021 17: 19
        0
        Can you justify it?

        No, Marzhetsky, I can't !!! Because the cabbage soup is sour, the meat is burnt, your favorite team has lost - so I wrote this one ...
        You are really concerned about the country's money and I wish you to be heard by the leadership of the same country.
        The mistake came out ... sorry ...
  • Vladest Offline Vladest
    Vladest (Vladimir) 17 January 2021 12: 52
    0
    Quote: 123
    Bacchanalia and political instability are now beginning in the United States, aggravated by the economic crisis. You see, by 2028, the corroded states will appear. So don't tell us fairy tales here, we'll wait and see how spaceships ply the vastness of the theater.

    I've been observing how the States are being buried for 50 years already. During this time, the USSR has already evaporated. And the United States as it was and will remain so.
    Have you compared the growth rates of the US and Russian economies at least once? In the USA they are 2-4 %% per year. In the Russian Federation it is 1-2 %%. Russia just lags behind the US year after year.
    The population in the United States is growing 1,5-2 million every year. Russia MINUS half a million a year. https://ng.ach.gov.ru/ Check here. This is the site "Achievements of National Projects of Russia".
    I don't see how Russia snaps a finger. Turkey broke off Russia in Syria and Libya. As well as Armenia's ally in Karabakh.
    Whatever Russia did to the Baltics, I don’t even see a hint. NATO is not Georgia or Ukraine.
    So that's it. For the Russian Federation, the best plan would be to learn from China. Although even now China does not go where it is not asked.