The Russian Navy can replenish with two aircraft carriers: what kind of ships were laid in the Crimea


The debate about whether Russia needs its own aircraft carriers or not has been going on for many years. Complicating the issue is the fact that the only domestic aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov" has shown itself in practice not in the best way. Projects "Storm" and "Manatee", it seems, will remain on paper for more than a decade, however, most likely, the Russian Navy may still receive a pair of light aircraft carriers in the foreseeable future. How can this be possible?


Last year, two Project 23900 universal amphibious assault ships (UDC) "Ivan Rogov" and "Mitrofan Moskalenko" were laid down in Kerch. They are considered our response to the French Mistral helicopter carriers that were never delivered. All components for both ships must be strictly domestic production. UDCs are designed to transport thousands of marines, 75 armored vehicles, 4 landing boats, as well as 16 helicopters: Ka-29, Ka-27, Ka-31 (RER), Ka-52K shock and several drones. Given that Moscow is now pursuing an active external policiesusing their military contingents abroad, the ships will obviously be useful. However, there is a possibility that both UDCs have a slightly different fate. President Putin personally hinted at this:

They are good, modern. We even planned to redo them a little and use them for other purposes. Almost the same, but for different purposes. But now I will not talk about it yet.

For other purposes? This is already interesting. If you look at the entire short history of their construction, you can see how the displacement of ships is constantly growing. First, the figure was 15 thousand tons, then 20 thousand, then 30 thousand tons. The last officially announced displacement figure for both UDC is 40 thousand tons. The resulting ships are of a very decent size. By the way, the "Admiral Kuznetsov" has a total displacement of 59,1 thousand tons, and the Japanese helicopter carrier Izumo "type 22DDH" - 27 thousand tons. We remembered about these two ships not in vain, since the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral" was originally designed as a helicopter carrier, and Tokyo recently decided to turn both of its helicopter carriers into light aircraft carriers, equipping them with American F-35 aircraft.

Inevitably, one has to ask the question, can not both Russian UDCs be transformed in the same way in the future? The ability to transfer two thousand marines with armored vehicles somewhere is good, but having a couple of aircraft-carrying ships in the Black or Mediterranean Sea is even better. True, then the second question arises, which aircraft can be accommodated on "Ivan Rogov" and "Mitrofan Moskalenko". If the much larger Kuznetsov had landing problems, then what about the converted UDC?

And here we can recall that at the end of the existence of the USSR, we had already created the Yak-141, a supersonic all-weather carrier-based fighter, which was intended for use on the Admiral Kuznetsov and its brothers. The unique aircraft set a lot of records, but on a promising project it put an end to the collapse of the Soviet Union, which made the Yak-141 useless. The formal reason for the curtailment of work was the crash of the fighter during landing, and mass production did not begin. Interestingly, according to the American edition of Task and Purpose, the Lockheed Martin corporation could have been inspired by the Soviet fighter when creating its "unique" F-35, since at one time it did not disdain to cooperate with the Yakovlev Design Bureau:

Almost certainly, the data collected from the old Soviet VTOL aircraft project was used in the development of the VTOL F-35 Joint Strike Fighter variant. This means that the F-35 owes at least part of its existence to the Soviet-era weapons program.

So ... And we are always told that this is the United States ahead of the rest of the world.

Since 2017, Russia has been developing a new vertical takeoff and landing aircraft (VTOL). The implementation period of the updated project, which will clearly be based on the developments on the Yak-141 and its version called the Yak-201, is estimated at 7-10 years. Supersonic VTOL fighters can be used both on aircraft carriers and on land, where there are no prepared runways. If this project is revived and modernized, Russia will receive an excellent multipurpose aircraft that can serve both on land and in carrier-based aviation, and the Russian Navy will replenish with two light aircraft carriers.
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  1. Binder Offline Binder
    Binder (Miron) 6 January 2021 15: 21
    -14%
    The two UDCs laid down in Kerch will have time to completely rust and crumble from old age before Russia has its first all-weather carrier-based fighter. lol
    1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
      Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 6 January 2021 16: 04
      -10%
      And you think they will have time to rust? But VVP said: Let's adapt a little for other purposes, they will probably be modeled on China, for floating Casinos and Dance floors with helipads. This is if the money is not lost.
      1. Binder Offline Binder
        Binder (Miron) 6 January 2021 16: 37
        -14%
        I confess that I did not think about such a method of using the UDC, there is not enough education - I did not have a chance to study at the KGB school. yes Then you should go to the end - all these

        Quote: Alexander K_2
        floating casinos and dance floors with helipads

        - this is the only way, for show-off, you need to immediately make floating brothels and send them on voyages across warm seas. Earn foreign currency and at the same time correct the demographic situation in the Russian Federation. good
        1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
          Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 6 January 2021 17: 47
          -8
          I'm afraid it won't work, good "girls" will not be found for these MIRACLES of ships. All the professionals have already settled in!
        2. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) 6 January 2021 19: 01
          +5
          - this is the only way, for show-off, you need to immediately make floating brothels and send them on voyages across warm seas. To earn currency and at the same time to correct the demographic situation in the Russian Federation

          You have a business acumen good Provide staff? You can earn some money yourself. smile
          1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
            Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 7 January 2021 13: 21
            -7
            You just have to wait until they launch, otherwise the staff will have to pay a penalty for the "downtime"!
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Binder Offline Binder
            Binder (Miron) 7 January 2021 15: 17
            -8
            Quote: 123
            Provide staff?

            There is a surplus of staff in your country - I personally met the representatives of the ancient profession of Russian origin in the most remote points of the globe. My irony about the possible construction of two light aircraft carriers, if you haven't noticed, stems from my disbelief in the possibility of quickly creating and putting into mass production of Russian carrier-based fighters. Given the ongoing sanctions and Russia's growing technological lag every year, this task seems insoluble. Try to reasonably refute my point of view, without sinking to vile hints - you are compromising yourself with this. negative
            1. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) 7 January 2021 16: 38
              +3
              There is a surplus of staff in your country - I personally met the representatives of the oldest profession of Russian origin in the most remote points of the globe. And your hints are from those for which they beat in the face

              And they pat you on the head? sad The tradition of determining nationality by mother, so that it does not soar, did not appear with us.

              My irony about the possible construction of two light aircraft carriers, if you haven't noticed, stems from my disbelief in the possibility of quickly creating and putting into mass production of Russian carrier-based fighters.

              Maybe you should focus on the technical side of the issue, and not go to the side of demography?

              Given the ongoing sanctions and Russia's growing technological lag every year, this task seems insoluble.

              What nonsense. The terms of the ongoing sanctions stimulate the accelerated development of technology and production. What kind of sanctions will prevent the construction of a UDC or a new fighter?

              Try to reasonably refute my point of view, without stopping to nasty hints - you are compromising yourself with this.

              Expect the same from you hi
              1. Binder Offline Binder
                Binder (Miron) 7 January 2021 17: 19
                -5
                Quote: 123
                The terms of the ongoing sanctions stimulate the accelerated development of technology and production.

                This is ridiculous. You seem to be an educated person, but you reason like a poor student from a vocational school - what accelerated development if in today's Russia even a suitable electric kettle is not able to make on its own? American corporations such as Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Pratt & Whitney, etc. use the best practices of the whole world, cooperate with leading experts from different countries, of course, they move faster, I will not mention the amount of funding at all. Well, where can the Russians keep up with them? So, propaganda cartoons are being created in the Russian Federation about new types of weapons, "having no analogues" - the Kremlin cannot oppose anything else with the power of a potential enemy. And not very literate VVP voters firmly believe in the cartoon reality, contrary to logic.
                1. 123 Offline 123
                  123 (123) 7 January 2021 17: 42
                  +4
                  This is ridiculous. You seem to be an educated person, but you reason like a poor student from a vocational school - what accelerated development if in today's Russia even a suitable electric kettle is not able to make on its own?

                  What are you talking about. belay What kind of teapot is good for you and what is in it that Russia cannot produce? We type in the search, "buy a teapot made in Russia" and enjoy. If you mean specifically heating elements, it's like dirt (the first links that came across, I know for sure that there is still a lot, I hope they will not accept it for advertising)
                  https://polymernagrev.ru/
                  https://www.promnagrev.ru/

                  Tellingly, at the request "buy a teapot made in Israel", the bourgeois Google had difficulties with the selection of options laughing

                  American corporations such as Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Pratt & Whitney, etc. use the best practices of the whole world, cooperate with leading experts from different countries, of course, they move faster, I will not mention the amount of funding at all.

                  Washed yes So the whole civilized world is helping the Americans build fighters? Is it possible from this moment in more detail? Whose help is it that helps the United States stay ahead of the rest? As far as I remember, only 5 countries are capable of producing engines for them. In addition to the USA, fighters (verticals) were also produced by the British and the Russians. Evil tongues claim that the F-35C is based on the good old Yak-141.

                  Well, where can the Russians keep up with them?

                  And do not say yes All around a hopeless hope crying
                  By the way, the "civilized world" can not help the Americans with the development of hypersound? Or maybe they just lack funding? smile
                  1. Binder Offline Binder
                    Binder (Miron) 7 January 2021 20: 05
                    -6
                    Quote: 123
                    kettle made in Israel

                    For Israel, the production of household electrical appliances is a long time passed. wink

                    Quote: 123
                    So the whole civilized world is helping the Americans build fighters?

                    Exactly. This is generally typical for modern high-tech products. You want details - I have them! As an example, I will tell you about the production of a unique unit manufactured by one of the Israeli defense enterprises. The unit, developed by Israeli designers, is assembled from parts and elements produced not only in Israel itself, but also in Sweden, Germany, Switzerland and South Korea, then the finished products are placed in packages from Finnish cardboard and on pallets from Latvian boards go to the customer in the USA ... This is how the international turns out ... yes

                    Quote: 123
                    "civilized world" cannot help Americans develop hypersound

                    The civilized world laughs merrily at the fantasies of Russian propagandists. laughing
                    1. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 7 January 2021 21: 01
                      +1
                      For Israel, the production of household electrical appliances is a long time passed.

                      Did the wave of deindustrialization and green eco-scholars come to you? now you warm water in the sun?

                      Exactly. This is generally typical for modern high-tech products. You want details - I have them! As an example, I will tell you about the production of a unique unit manufactured by one of the Israeli defense enterprises. The unit, developed by Israeli designers, is assembled from parts and elements produced not only in Israel itself, but also in Sweden, Germany, Switzerland and South Korea, then the finished products are placed in packages from Finnish cardboard and on pallets from Latvian boards go to the customer in the USA ... This is how the international turns out ...

                      That's how it is, Finnish cardboard and Lithuanian pallets were especially impressed. Surely this is the pinnacle of technology laughing I think the inscription "zalgiris" on the boards testifies to their manufacture using unique green technologies and at least 5 tons are added to the engine thrust. Why are there so many suppliers? Have the Americans lost all production? Does your wonderful machine brew coffee for pilots?

                      The civilized world laughs merrily at the fantasies of Russian propagandists

                      This is no longer fashionable, the whole world laughs like Russian propagandists mock the storming of the Capitol laughing
                      1. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) 7 January 2021 21: 38
                        -3
                        Quote: 123
                        Did the wave of deindustrialization and green eco-scholars come to you? now you warm water in the sun?

                        This wave has rolled from us - the Israelis are leaders in the production and operation of solar water heaters. 30 years ago, when I came to Israel, solar boilers were already in every home.

                        Quote: 123
                        Lithuanian pallets

                        Pallets are made in Israel from Latvian boards (not Lithuanian), if you are aware that Latvia and Lithuania are different states. lol

                        Quote: 123
                        Why are there so many suppliers? Have the Americans lost all production? Does your wonderful machine brew coffee for pilots?

                        Suppliers are selected on a competitive basis, each of them produces its part the best in the world, and therefore the quality of the final product is at the highest level. And what the unit does I will not say, coffee makers in Israel, by the way, are not produced, like kettles. bully
                      2. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 7 January 2021 21: 53
                        +1
                        This wave has rolled from us - the Israelis are leaders in the production and operation of solar water heaters. 30 years ago, when I came to Israel, solar boilers were already in every home.

                        Naturally laughing How to live without firewood laughing

                        Pallets are made in Israel from Latvian boards (not Lithuanian), if you are aware that Latvia and Lithuania are different states

                        Are you kidding laughing And what is the correct spelling of Iran or Iraq? What's the difference, Lithuanian, Latvian. Boards are boards.

                        Suppliers are selected on a competitive basis, each of them produces its part better than anyone else in the world, and therefore the quality of the final product is at the highest level.

                        We know your contests yes Passed a fair division of labor smile Better we build planes and reactors ourselves than the best boards in the world. Let the Chukhon druids grow them for you laughing

                        And what the unit does I will not say, coffee makers in Israel, by the way, are not produced, like kettles.

                        In Kislovodsk, the Turks still make coffee for coffee, take it useful. And brew coffee on a hot sand and in the F-35 on the long road will come in handy.
                      3. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) 7 January 2021 22: 12
                        -3
                        Quote: 123
                        How to live without firewood

                        Well, not everyone harass the taiga at zero and sell it to the Chinese for a song.

                        Quote: 123
                        What's the difference, Lithuanian, Latvian. Boards are boards.

                        In fact, the boards, although Latvian, are made of Russian timber - Latvians buy logs, process them, and sell sawn timber, so Russia is also participating. smile

                        Quote: 123
                        In Kislovodsk, the Turks still produce coffee, take it useful

                        Why do I need crafts from Kislovodsk craftsmen - I prefer original products of Turkish craftsmen. The original is always better than the copy.
                      4. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 7 January 2021 22: 39
                        +2
                        Well, not everyone harass the taiga at zero and sell it to the Chinese for a song.

                        Why zero? We still have a little laughing This is where you put yours sad

                        In fact, the boards, although Latvian, are made of Russian timber - Latvians buy logs, process them, and sell sawn timber, so Russia is also participating.

                        Could you buy a tree right away and do whatever you like with it? Why so many intermediaries to send a Russian board to the USA in the end? Are they embarrassed to buy themselves?

                        Why do I need crafts from Kislovodsk craftsmen - I prefer original products of Turkish craftsmen. The original is always better than the copy.

                        So you can take Russian birches under the guise of Lithuanian, but not the Turks of Kislovodsk? Do they have a different metal? laughing
              2. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
                Bulanov (Vladimir) 9 February 2021 15: 31
                0
                Where did the Latvians get the boards? Have you started sawing the remains of your forest? But what about the "green"?
                1. Binder Offline Binder
                  Binder (Miron) 9 February 2021 17: 23
                  -2
                  Why torment your forests? Your Russian guys sell round timber to Latvians at a cheap price, which Latvians dissolve on boards, pack and sell to Israelis and not only them.
          3. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
            sgrabik (Sergei) 8 January 2021 15: 48
            +2
            Bindyuzhnik, almost everything that was shown in the so-called cartoons two years ago already exists in metal, successfully flies and floats, to put it mildly, your non-love for Russia is visible to the naked eye, but you shouldn't stoop to insanity and consider everyone around you naive fools , wishful thinking is much better for you than to think soberly and objectively !!!
      2. Dear sofa expert. 8 January 2021 09: 41
        +2
        personally met the representatives of the most ancient profession of Russian origin in the most remote points of the globe.

        Surely there were Ukrainian women. It is easy to confuse, since they speak Russian abroad (it is better than (MOV) understand).

        With the ongoing sanctions and Russia's growing technological lag every year

        .... the Russian army was modernized by 70%, and in the meantime, the Bridge was built.)
  2. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 7 January 2021 13: 15
    +2
    Floating brothels are built in the world of the sea (even one Italian sank while having fun with the captain of one diva), but only the coronavirus covered this armada on the water ... Therefore, the prospects under the brothel are covered, do not hope to get there, even in Russian, even in Israeli. .. That they are building large ships, fortunately, the shipyards are loaded in a crisis, and yet they will still find where to stick, if only that was ...
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 7 January 2021 15: 22
      -3
      Quote: Vladimir Tuzakov
      do not expect to get there, even in Russian, even in Israeli

      The Russian and Israeli brothels are very similar - both employ mostly Russian girls. And the pandemic will not last forever - vaccines are produced, drugs are developed - we will break through. yes
      1. isofat Online isofat
        isofat (isofat) 7 January 2021 16: 04
        +3
        Binder, and Russian girls have nationality? For example, how do you know Russian from your mother?
  • sgrabik Offline sgrabik
    sgrabik (Sergei) 6 January 2021 17: 06
    +3
    Stop splashing your bile, if it is really necessary and justified, then this project will be implemented, the foundation is there, but our design bureaus and military-industrial complex enterprises are quite capable of developing and modernizing deeply !!!
  • rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 (Victor) 7 January 2021 15: 55
    +1
    yes, not all Jews are distinguished by intelligence and ingenuity, and this Odessa native is just one of these laughing
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 6 January 2021 16: 03
    -4
    This is just another can / cannot fantasy.
    UDC, of ​​which we have 0, but only Amers have 8, cannot be easily converted into aircraft carriers. The take-off site is small.

    Vertical take-off planes that land even on a barge, but are weak, will not make them into aircraft carriers.

    The Japanese and the Chinese are completely thinking of redoing the internal filling, they already have massively tested naval short-take off fighters and catapults, at least some.
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 January 2021 17: 40
      +3
      Quote: Sergey Latyshev
      This is just another can / cannot fantasy.
      UDC, of ​​which we have 0, but only Amers have 8, cannot be easily converted into aircraft carriers. The take-off site is small.

      For this, the site must be expanded.
    2. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 6 January 2021 19: 23
      +5
      Several corrections.

      UDC, of ​​which we have 0, but only Amers have 8, cannot be easily converted into aircraft carriers. The take-off site is small.

      There are already 7 of them, the eighth after the fire on needles ..

      https://rg.ru/2020/08/27/pozhar-na-korable-vms-ssha-okazalsia-samym-dorogim-podzhogom-v-istorii.html

      There is no need to alter anything, fighters with accelerated take-off are successfully based on ships of a similar displacement.

      Vertical take-off planes that land even on a barge, but are weak, will not make them into aircraft carriers.

      Ships with even outdated Harriers are quite considered aircraft carriers.

      Naturally, in terms of their characteristics, they are not comparable to the American ones, but formally they are aircraft carriers.

      The Japanese and the Chinese are completely thinking of redoing the internal filling, they already have massively tested naval short-take off fighters and catapults, at least some.

      Such aircraft do not need catapults, in the sense that they can be used without them. Those that the Japanese have can hardly be called "mass and tested", production is stopped, they will be "tested". That the Chinese have such a class is a mystery to me. I would be grateful if you enlighten hi
  • Better to build destroyers! We will fill up all the coasts with mines, and the Northern Sea Route - too - not a single OTAN-ovskaya tub will stick!
  • Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
    Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 6 January 2021 19: 49
    +4
    But can not both Russian UDCs be transformed in the same way in the future?

    The development of aviation rocket and space technology has called into question the feasibility of maintaining the US aircraft carrier fleet.
    The war in Syria showed the importance of supply ships, the shortage of which was compensated by the freight of merchant ships, and UDCs are universal, have a different status, do not require carrier infrastructure and escort, and are simply cheaper.

    Lockheed Martin Corporation could be inspired by the Soviet fighter when creating its "unique" F-35

    The British Harrier was the first and served in the Marine Corps until recently.

    an excellent multipurpose aircraft that can serve both on land and in carrier-based aviation

    Commenting on the pursuit of versatility, one of the Soviet designers gave the example of a duck that flies, and swims, and dives, and walks on the ground, but it does all this badly.
    The vector of development of fighter aircraft is directed towards unmanned aircraft controlled by artificial intelligence, and such capabilities were demonstrated by the flight of Buran during the Soviet era.
  • Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
    Dart2027 6 January 2021 22: 43
    +2
    I doubt the need for aircraft carriers at the World Cup, as it is fired through by missiles. Aircraft carriers are needed in the north, where you need to cover the deployment of nuclear submarines from anti-submarine aircraft, but here you need aircraft carriers with full-fledged aircraft, but all these verticals, etc. are only suitable for supporting the landing.
    I think that first of all it will be UDC, not full-fledged aircraft carriers, or as an option they will have several attack UAVs.
  • Sergey Demin_2 Offline Sergey Demin_2
    Sergey Demin_2 (Sergey Dyomin) 6 January 2021 22: 47
    +1
    on the Black or Mediterranean Sea, a couple of aircraft carriers are even better

    What for??? The entire Black Sea is quietly covered from the peninsula, the eastern half of the Mediterranean is more than overlapped with bases in Syria, and even two aircraft carriers in the western Mediterranean will not help (see geography).
  • Cat Offline Cat
    Cat (Sergei) 7 January 2021 00: 25
    +1
    Well, until the VTOL aircraft, we are as far as heaven ... and all these terms must be multiplied, at least by Pi. And in size, such ABs will be slightly shorter than Kuzi, and in the presence of a springboard, light fighters and attack aircraft of the Yak-130 type will take off on them. If the dimensions of the Krylovsky GNTs VI Multipurpose aircraft carrier are 44 Kt 304x74 m, then Rogov and Maskolenko with a VI of 40 Kt will be practically the same.
  • Termit1309 Offline Termit1309
    Termit1309 (Alexander) 7 January 2021 02: 19
    +1
    Quote: Cat
    Well, until the VTOL aircraft to us for now, as to heaven ..

    Well, a little smaller. But I think it's worth writing about it. That the representatives of the neighboring "European" country more often choke with bile and envy.
  • Cheburashk Offline Cheburashk
    Cheburashk (Vladimir) 7 January 2021 08: 20
    +1
    The Russian Navy may still receive a pair of light aircraft carriers in the foreseeable future. How can this be possible?

    Maybe they will build it if those who will be responsible for the theft and missed deadlines are put up against the wall.
  • Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
    Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 7 January 2021 13: 26
    -2
    As a result, a dozen more yachts will be built, sailing on the Black Sea with bl ... dyami and other non-traditional orientations.
  • Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 7 January 2021 13: 53
    0
    The future of aircraft carriers belongs to unmanned aircraft, when operators at the consoles sit in the womb.
    1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 8 January 2021 14: 56
      +2
      The future of aircraft carriers is a cut on needles, and a couple of them for fun by the museum. With the development of drones with the beginnings of AI, any large ship becomes a priority target. And from a swarm of "bees" just to get away, and aircraft carriers, an example is the fate of armored battleships in the development of aviation ... Therefore, UDC, as transport with advanced UAV capabilities and a helicopter wing on board, makes sense for the next 20 years, and no further. There is a revolutionary rearmament, so everything else should be tied to a new level of weapons ...