Stage 57 engine for Su-XNUMX will be the most powerful power plant for fighters

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Russia will showcase its fifth generation Su-57 fighter with a new product 30 engine (working designation of a “second stage” aircraft engine) in 2022. In the same year, the Russian Aerospace Forces will begin to receive the updated Su-57, writes the American edition of Military Watch.


According to information received from knowledgeable sources, the power unit will be named "Saturn 30", and it will be the most powerful in the world ever installed on an aircraft of this type. Currently, the Su-57 uses the AL-41F1 (first stage engine - "product 117") - an improved version of the AL-41 power unit, which is installed on the Su-35.

The Su-57 first took to the skies in January 2010. In December 2020, the Russian Aerospace Forces received the first serial copy at their disposal. The aircraft manufacturers have promised that the rate of production of fighters will grow to more than 15 units per year to ensure not only Russian troops, but also export supplies. It is believed, although it is not yet documented, that Algeria was the first, without advertising information, to have already placed an order for the Su-57. In addition, one should not exclude the serious interest of China, Vietnam, Myanmar and a number of other countries.

The delays in serial production among the Russians can be partly explained by their desire to minimize the number of aircraft with AL-41F1 engines. At the same time, this power unit is only 9% less powerful than the F119 engine installed on the American F-22 Raptor.

It should be clarified here that the F119 is now the most powerful engine in the world used in twin-engine fighters. At the same time, the American F135 aircraft engine installed on the F-35 Lightning II is the most powerful in the world in the single-engine fighter category.

When the Russians present Saturn 30, they will push the Americans on the podium in both categories. This is not surprising, since throughout the Cold War Soviet aircraft engines were traditionally more powerful than their Western counterparts. However, the 15-year decline after the collapse of the USSR left its mark on the Russian aviation industry. But now the Russians are catching up and the Saturn 30 could potentially be used in other Russian developments, including single-engine and next-generation aircraft.
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  1. Binder Offline Binder
    Binder (Miron) 2 January 2021 18: 44
    -8
    And again, all the achievements of the Russian military-industrial complex occur exclusively in the future, and this future is invariably postponed to a longer period. In general, when patriotic Russians tell each other about the upcoming victories of their native military industry, they somehow do not take into account that foreign competitors do not sit idly by, but purposefully work on their projects, achieving impressive results. hi
    1. Andrew Novarov Offline Andrew Novarov
      Andrew Novarov (Andrew Novarov) 2 January 2021 18: 56
      +7
      Calm down already
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 2 January 2021 23: 12
      +5
      foreign competitors do not sit idly by, but purposefully work on their projects, while achieving impressive results.

      Is it possible from now on in more detail? hi
      1. Binder Offline Binder
        Binder (Miron) 2 January 2021 23: 32
        -6
        The Lord is with you, what are the details? Today, there are several hundred fifth-generation fighters F-35 and F-22 in the world, in addition, the Chinese have made some of their sub-fifth generation. In Russia, at the end of 2020, only one serial Su-57 with a first stage engine was produced. So who has impressive results? wassat
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) 3 January 2021 00: 32
          +7
          Today, there are several hundred fifth-generation fighters F-35 and F-22 in the world, in addition, the Chinese have made some of their sub-fifth generation.

          1) The division into 4th and 5th generations is rather arbitrary, the criteria by which one aircraft is considered the 5th generation and the other one does not reach it is often invented for propaganda purposes. This is approximately the case with the F-35 and the Chinese "underplanes". The criteria of the 5th generation came across on the Internet, prepared by Ukrainian specialists in 2014. At that time, there were still specialists, they had not yet had time to cloud their consciousness with the Maidan, and it was already difficult to suspect of sympathy for the Russian "occupiers". In general, there is a claim to objectivity. yes
          So, among others, these are the requirements for the power plant:

          The possibility of prolonged supersonic flight in non-afterburning engine operation

          (do not be alarmed by the link the pdf file is downloaded immediately)
          http://www.hups.mil.gov.ua/periodic-app/article/2391/soivt_2014_2_29.pdf

          And you want to say that the F-35 matches it? If not, then should it be considered an "underplane", in the sense of the "under-five" generation?
          I suppose the arrogant attitude towards the Chinese has no real basis, at least when it comes to the F-35.

          2) As for the actual technologies of the fifth generation ... If we compare the same F-35 with the Su-57, the latter outperforms it in almost all characteristics, even with the 1st stage engine. This is understandable, planes of different classes. More correct comparison with the F-22. True, there are many statements that American planes are not directly visible at all, the "always drunk" Russians have the wrong air intake, then the rivets stick out, then something else. But this is rather propaganda, no one knows the real data.

          3) Now, about the production itself ... Yes, the production of the F-35 has been put on stream, if I am not mistaken, 123 aircraft were made in a year, the Su-57 are only planning to produce up to 15 per year, and by 2021, they are unlikely to collect even a dozen. But, the F-35 cannot be fully attributed to the 5th generation, if only because of the engine. The Su-57 will have a new one, but the Americans don't see something on the horizon. And the F-22 has long been out of production and is not expected to be resumed request You will still laugh, but the fact is, in 2020 Russia released 1 plane and this is exactly 100% more than the Americans. laughing Every year the gap will narrow and the Americans cannot do anything about it.

          It remains to tear the throat for the F-35 that it is produced in batches. So the "impressive achievements" are only in organizing the serial production of the 4+ generation aircraft. Achievements on the F-22 are already in the past, the plane is not young, and there is no replacement for it.
          1. Binder Offline Binder
            Binder (Miron) 3 January 2021 06: 07
            -5
            Quote: 123
            It remains to tear the throat for the F-35 that it is released in packs

            In fact, this aircraft also successfully performs combat missions, remaining invulnerable to "the most advanced Russian air defense systems" lol .
            1. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) 3 January 2021 13: 57
              +4
              In fact, this aircraft also successfully performs combat missions, remaining invulnerable to "the most advanced Russian air defense systems

              Before the advent of the F-35, your aircraft were not capable of performing combat missions and were shot down by the thousands? If not, what's the difference? Militarily undeveloped neighbors can be driven by anything.
              As for invulnerability ... You know the anecdote about the elusive Joe, right? Or remind?
              1. Binder Offline Binder
                Binder (Miron) 3 January 2021 15: 06
                -5
                About the militarily undeveloped, you are too much, not patriotic. lol
                1. 123 Offline 123
                  123 (123) 3 January 2021 15: 13
                  +3
                  About the militarily undeveloped, you are too much, not patriotic.

                  What does not mean patriotic? belay I have nothing to do with the Middle East request
                  1. Binder Offline Binder
                    Binder (Miron) 3 January 2021 15: 17
                    -5
                    I meant that there are Russian bases in our neighborhood, and at these bases it seems like S-400s are ... bully
                    1. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 3 January 2021 15: 19
                      +5
                      I meant that here in our neighborhood there are Russian bases, and at these bases it seems like there are S-400s ...

                      They stand, like the American ones at the Saudis. Does this somehow make your neighbors more advanced militarily?
                    2. boriz Offline boriz
                      boriz (boriz) 3 January 2021 15: 43
                      +3
                      Myron, what are you, in fact, unharness for the American aviation?
                      Better tell us how, at the first whistle of the Americans, they leaked their own fighter program.
                      Thanks to the efforts of Yakov Kedmi, in the 90s Israel got specialists who would not have been released from the country before Yeltsin. You have been parasitizing on footage from the USSR all your life. Ready engineers, ready teachers. How easy and pleasant it is to bend your fingers and puff out your cheeks without hitting your finger.
                      We began to make our own fighter. Almost built already. But, followed by the command "to the leg" and Israel, squealing guiltily, leaked its program.
                      Where is your fighter? Is Russia's example not for the future? The technical school is easy to drain, but it is very difficult to restore it. Difficult for Russia. For Israel it is impossible. You are used to parasitizing on someone else's work.
                      1. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) 3 January 2021 18: 20
                        -3
                        There are different opinions on the closure of the Lavi program, but American pressure did not play a decisive role here.

                        Quote: boriz
                        Through the efforts of Yakov Kedmi, Israel in the 90s appeared specialists,

                        Project "Lavi" was closed in 1987, and J. Kedmi is trying only on "nightingale droppings" laughing

                        Quote: boriz
                        Where is your fighter?

                        The documentation was sold to the Chinese, based on which they created the Chengdu fighter

                        Quote: boriz
                        You are used to parasitizing on someone else's work.

                        Here you bent, however. If I begin to list the outstanding Jewish leaders of the Soviet defense industry, it will immediately become clear who is used to parasitizing on whom ... fool
                      2. boriz Offline boriz
                        boriz (boriz) 3 January 2021 19: 09
                        +3
                        The last flight of "Lavi" made in 1990, later the project was curtailed in favor of the F-16.

                        Of course, without American pressure ...
                        And what does the Chinese plane have to do with it? I'm asking about Israeli. Where?
                        Ours, with 25 years of obstruction in work, are struggling, trying to make up for lost time, and you yourself have merged.

                        Before the USSR, they somehow managed without Jews. Popov, Yablochkov, Zvorykin, Tupolev, Sikorsky, Yuriev, Zhukovsky, Mendeleev, Ipatiev, Polikarpov ...
                        But starting from the first Soviet government, it broke through. Mafia. This is generally a separate big topic.
                        Who educated them? Work experience?
                      3. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) 3 January 2021 19: 37
                        -2
                        Quote: boriz
                        you yourself have merged.

                        Nobody merged, just for a country with less than 10 million people (much less in the 80s) such large-scale production is economically unprofitable. The Israelis previously produced their fighters when they did not have an alternative, and they did it very successfully, however, if there is an opportunity to purchase good equipment from the Americans, and even on very favorable terms ...

                        Quote: boriz
                        Before the USSR, they somehow managed without Jews.

                        And they sat in bast shoes with a splinter.

                        lol
                        Quote: boriz
                        Mafia.

                        Yeah, mafia. All these Landau-Zeldovich-Kharitons-Lavochkin-Mile-Vannikovs and thousands of others, without which there would be no Soviet defense - MAFIA!!!
                2. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
                  sgrabik (Sergei) 9 January 2021 15: 36
                  0
                  Yes, these kind of S-400s are not in the most advanced and combat-ready versions there, and besides, they are controlled by Arab and not Russian operators, and this is far from the same thing !!!
                  1. Binder Offline Binder
                    Binder (Miron) 9 January 2021 15: 48
                    -3
                    Believe it if it's easier for you.
        2. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
          sgrabik (Sergei) 9 January 2021 15: 04
          +1
          Quote: Bindyuzhnik
          remaining invulnerable to "the most advanced Russian air defense systems"

          And why this stupid lie, please facts in the studio, by the way, our advanced air defense systems, in the form of over-the-horizon radars, perfectly see these aircraft at a distance of almost a thousand kilometers, this is a fact confirmed even by the Americans, well, you cannot prove anything, with this inadequate and obsessive confidence of yours that Russia is not capable of creating modern types and systems of weapons that are not inferior to the best Western models !!!
          1. Binder Offline Binder
            Binder (Miron) 9 January 2021 15: 46
            -3
            Quote: sgrabik
            And why this stupid lie

            Silly lies - this is what the Kremlin propagandists are feeding the Russians.

            Quote: sgrabik
            the certainty that Russia is not capable of creating modern types and systems of weapons that are not inferior to the best Western models !!!

            Even the propaganda cartoons, which some Russian citizens watch with delight, are not made very skillfully, what can we say about modern weapons systems ... laughing
            1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
              sgrabik (Sergei) 9 January 2021 16: 23
              0
              Blessed is he who believes in such nonsense, anti-Russian propaganda in all its glory, but it should not overshadow reason !!!
      2. General Black Offline General Black
        General Black (Gennady) 3 January 2021 09: 36
        +1
        In addition, here is a small stroke.
        https://aftershock.news/?q=node%2F935114
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) 3 January 2021 14: 24
          +2
          In addition, here is a small stroke.

          Your Honor, you are right as always, there are some problems and failures in production yes
      3. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
        Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 3 January 2021 13: 13
        +1
        And what are the achievements in the Russian Federation, only in words? Are we living off the accursed inheritance of the USSR?
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) 3 January 2021 14: 28
          +2
          And what are the achievements in the Russian Federation, only in words? Are we living off the accursed inheritance of the USSR?

          The fact that you are not familiar with them does not mean at all that they do not exist.
          After all, the Su-57 was not developed in the USSR, like the MS-21, like new icebreakers, reactors, hypersound, new materials, technologies, there are a lot of examples, there would be a desire to notice them. hi
          1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
            Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 3 January 2021 18: 25
            -3
            There are many examples, I agree with you. There is only NO work! Under the USSR, they could come up with a lot of different things, only when needed (T-34, AK 47 I do not take), it was difficult to produce for people. And, look in reality, according to SU-57, MS-21, Armata, they look more like the same samples for the exhibition. But we don’t give up: Here’s how we will finish it, how we will fly, we will go, we will sail, we just need more MONEY, we just have to WAIT, so 100 years!
            1. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) 3 January 2021 20: 25
              +2
              There are many examples, I agree with you. There is only NO work!

              What do you mean no work? How should it look like?

              Under the USSR, they could come up with a lot of different things, only when needed (T-34, AK 47 I do not take), it was difficult to produce for people.

              I agree that the production of "consumer goods" was secondary.

              And, look in reality, according to SU-57, MS-21, Armata, they look more like the same samples for the exhibition. But we don’t give up: Here’s how we will finish it, how we will fly, we will go, we will sail, we just need more MONEY, we just need to WAIT, so 100 years!

              There were enough such "exhibition" samples in Soviet times, and there are also abroad. Not everything goes straight to a large series. What 100 years are you talking about? And how do you imagine the deployment of mass production without allocating money? By the pike's behest?
              1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
                Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 4 January 2021 00: 23
                -2
                Well, if the PAK FA (prototype SU-57) in the early 80s, the fighter design bureaus of the Soviet Union began full-scale work on a promising multifunctional fighter on the I-90 theme ("fighter of the 1990s"), it will be 100 years old!
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  • xalexey Offline xalexey
    xalexey (alex x) 3 January 2021 13: 02
    +1
    You also talked about Su57 itself when you wrote about it. Now it is there and you are starting to talk about engines in the same spirit. When the engine appears, you will find something else. Everything that was said yesterday as about the future already exists.
    1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
      Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 3 January 2021 13: 09
      -1
      This is the case not only with Russian aviation
    2. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
      Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 4 January 2021 00: 26
      -1
      The future already exists, I completely agree with you, only in Russia - the future is in the Far Future!
    3. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
      Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 4 January 2021 00: 29
      -1
      Let it appear in the beginning, then the avionics will go away, I say, Russia all the time does not even yesterday, but the day before yesterday.
  • avm Offline avm
    avm ( Alexei) 16 January 2021 14: 23
    0
    100%, in the future Russia is ahead of the rest of the world, the future is coming, and Russia is still there ... And this has been going on for 30 years ... They would steal less, and betray (and this is done exclusively by those in power), then no sanctions are scary ...
  • BoBot Robot - Free Thinking Machine Offline BoBot Robot - Free Thinking Machine
    BoBot Robot - Free Thinking Machine 2 January 2021 19: 25
    +2
    Well, we can, if we want!
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 2 January 2021 21: 46
    -4
    Well. They promised at 18, promised at 19, promised at 20.
    Now they promise in 2022.
    Anonymous promises that have no analogues in the world - in them we are ahead of the whole planet ...
    And yusa has already made 600 single-engine F35s and is going to another 2500 ...
    1. xalexey Offline xalexey
      xalexey (alex x) 3 January 2021 13: 10
      +3
      Yeah .. Yes, only F35 has not yet gone through a full cycle of tests, in particular as close as possible to combat ones, which were planned for 2017, and just recently, for this reason, its mass serial production was postponed indefinitely. Until now, this aircraft is being produced in small-scale or pilot production facilities. But this program was allocated $ 400 billion.
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 3 January 2021 16: 30
        0
        Well, you are right in everything.)))
        Especially about small-scale production - 100 pieces per year in total. This is how large-scale should be, it's scary to think.

        And about the full cycle of tests, directly close to combat .... they are also already writing under different sauces .... Already 600 pieces have been released, sold out, they are serving, lo and behold, and there were no tests, supposedly.
        Strangely impossible ...
  • bzbo Offline bzbo
    bzbo (Black doctor) 2 January 2021 23: 19
    +5
    https://aftershock.news/?q=node/935114

    FSE-35 finished

    The Pentagon has decided to postpone mass production of the fifth generation F-35 fighter-bombers indefinitely. According to Bloomberg, officials have also indicated when the fighter will be ready for combat tests, which have been repeatedly postponed since 2017.

    Tests were scheduled for December 2020, and a decision on mass production for the $ 398 billion program was to be made no later than March. Spokesman for the US Undersecretary of Defense Jessica Maxwell explained that technical problems and the impact of COVID-19 were the reason for the cancellation. A new date will be set after an independent technical review.
  • Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
    Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 3 January 2021 13: 07
    0
    When will the Russians present Saturn 30! It would be interesting to know when the Russians will present "Saturn 30" in 100 years?
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 3 January 2021 20: 20
      +1
      When will the Russians present Saturn 30! It would be interesting to know when the Russians will present "Saturn 30" in 100 years?

      What is this Saturn-30 and why should Russia present it?
      1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
        Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 4 January 2021 00: 33
        -2
        According to information received from knowledgeable sources, the power unit will be called "Saturn 30" and it will be the most powerful in the world ever installed on an aircraft of this type. Currently, the Su-57 uses the AL-41F1 (first stage engine - "product 117"), an improved version of the AL-41 power unit, which is installed on the Su-35.
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) 4 January 2021 16: 09
          +4
          That's clearer. yes The engine is promised for 2022. In my opinion, the information is not secret, I am surprised that you do not know. If you are confused by the timing, then sorry to create an engine of this level is not easy, a lot of work. I doubt that the Chinese will make their own earlier or the Americans will master hypersound faster. Do you think they will also need "100 years"? winked
          1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
            Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 4 January 2021 18: 26
            -2
            I think if Russia succeeds in inventing Saturn, then China will get it tomorrow, with all the documentation, and not for dear!
            1. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) 4 January 2021 18: 44
              +3
              I think if Russia succeeds in inventing Saturn, then China will get it tomorrow, with all the documentation, and not at a cost!

              After such words, I begin to doubt your ability to think sad
              1) They don't invent it, they finish it.
              2) What is your confidence based on is not clear request By analogy, you cannot be given a salary, the next day you will drink. I think so winked How do you like this logic?
              1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
                Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 4 January 2021 23: 14
                -2
                Maybe you are right, I thought that to finish something, you need to produce something. What is NOT available to complete CANNOT be completed! And the one who received this payment has the right to dispose of his salary. Or am I wrong?
                How do you like this logic?
                1. 123 Offline 123
                  123 (123) 5 January 2021 00: 12
                  +4
                  Quite normal logic yes, in terms of salary. But you do not think that you should not be given it and do not fear that you will drink it all until morning. But with the engine, for some reason, everything is different. Where does this skepticism come from?

                  I thought that to finish something, you need to produce something. What is NOT available to complete CANNOT be completed!

                  Where did you get such confidence? Images and videos have been online for a long time. Do you think these are cartoons?




                  1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
                    Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 5 January 2021 15: 21
                    -2
                    For wages and a new engine: wages are given by the employer for a specific amount of work performed. This time, How much work has been done on the new engine? Or do you regard the commercials as work on a new engine for the NEWEST, COOLEST aircraft? In this case, the money should have been transferred to Mosfilm, Lenfilm or Animation! Where is this new engine, how much will it be invented, how much more budget money and STATE funds are needed? In the 20s-30s, and the post-war years of the last century, they bought licenses for motors, technologies and equipment in the west. Maybe it's enough to feed people noodles? Or is there a new engine already, but MOST CLASSIFIED?
                    1. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 5 January 2021 15: 48
                      +3
                      For wages and a new engine: wages are given by the employer for a specific amount of work performed. This is the time

                      That's right, after that it becomes your property. The engine developed by Russian specialists is the property of the state. This is not the point. You probably misunderstood the question. Why do you think that you will not distribute the salary to your neighbors, and the state, as soon as it receives the engine, will immediately give it back? Let's start your confidence is still not clear to me request Russia still sells old engines to China and does not transfer technology. Why should it be different with a new engine?

                      How much work has been done on the new engine?

                      I will not answer this question, even if I knew, I would not violate the secrecy regime. One can only speculate based on data from open sources.

                      Or do you regard the commercials as work on a new engine for the NEWEST, COOLEST aircraft?

                      At least it has been brought to the stage of flight tests, which means it exists "in hardware".

                      In this case, the money should have been transferred to Mosfilm, Lenfilm or Animation!

                      The above photos and videos have nothing to do with animation in general and Mosfilm in particular. This is real shooting.

                      Where is this new engine, how much will it be invented, how much more budget money and STATE funds are needed?

                      I already told you, we are waiting for the completion of work on the engine in 2022. the amount of government funding secret, but the amount is not small.

                      In the 20s-30s, and the post-war years of the last century, they bought licenses for motors, technologies and equipment in the west.

                      Do you want to repeat this experience and buy an engine? Only the United States has a similar class. Do you think the purchase is possible? Flag in your hands, go negotiate laughing
                      In addition, it is not a good idea to "add" combat aircraft to imported engines. No.

                      Maybe it's enough to feed people noodles? Or is there a new engine already, but MOST CLASSIFIED?

                      What do you want? The engine does not create felt boots. If you understand the topic and have built at least one engine, do not grumble, but go and help.
                      1. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
                        Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 5 January 2021 19: 05
                        0
                        Any thing, whether it's an engine or a simple pencil, has a price. Even a few components of this price: what funds were spent on design, creation, and most importantly, the time spent on the production of this thing or product! Of all these components, there is only money spent on the production of some kind of "piece of iron", about which they try to convince us to appear on the SU-57 one day. Question: WHEN ??? There is a great saying in Russian: The road is a spoon to dinner ! According to our Chinese, we should not consider the Chinese, Indians and other representatives, developing "NOT ENOUGH SMART! For their money, They want to receive the most advanced developments, since the modern world has plenty to choose from! So does Russia have what to offer them in addition to the RosKino films listed above? I want to hope so and I am delighted with your Vera! Well, about helping with the invention - Everyone should do their own thing, and Everyone has the right to have his own Opinion. Something like that.
                      2. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 5 January 2021 19: 31
                        +2
                        Any thing, whether it's an engine or a simple pencil, has a price. Even a few components of this price: what funds were spent on design, creation, and most importantly, the time spent on the production of this thing or product! Of all these components, there is only money spent on the production of some kind of "piece of iron", about which they are trying to convince us, someday appear on the SU-57. Question: WHEN ???

                        You can't read and have problems with vision? belay
                        I repeat to you for the third time, FOR THE THIRD !!!! COMPLETION OF WORK IS PLANNED FOR 2022. review the attached videos again. They have exactly the same engine, at least that version of it that exists today.

                        There is a great saying in Russian: The road is a spoon for dinner!

                        Moderation in food contributes to better health and longevity. Moderate your appetite.

                        According to our Chinese - we should not consider the Chinese, Indians and other representatives, developing "NOT ENOUGH SMART!

                        And where did you get the idea that I think they are not smart enough? belay I believe they are lagging behind in engine technology and that's a fact.

                        For their money, They want to receive the most advanced developments, since the modern world has plenty to choose from!

                        What are you talking about!!! And where is this supermarket? laughing I already suggested that you go with the Americans to agree on the engines. The French also did not give Rafal technology to the Indians. So it is empty and further "desire".

                        So does Russia have what to offer them in addition to the RosKino films listed above?

                        What's again am Re-read above, Russia sells them old engines. and that characteristically take and do not refuse. Nobody will offer them more modern ones.

                        I want to hope so and I am delighted with your Vera!

                        What does faith have to do with it? D-30 and AL-31 are still being purchased. As far as I remember, a new engine (SU-31, Su-4) “product 30” is being developed to replace the AL-35. Nobody will give the new engine for the Su-117 to the Chinese.

                        Well, about helping with the invention - Everyone should do their own thing, and Everyone has the right to have his own Opinion. Something like that.

                        I completely agree with you, only the opinion should be based on real facts.
                        Happy New Year!!! drinks
                      3. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
                        Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 5 January 2021 20: 07
                        -1
                        Thanks for the compliments. And according to new developments - Blessed is he who Believes! For SU-57 Big ship Great voyage and you are right here, for 1 (one) serial SU-57 one engine presented on VIDEO is quite enough, although it would not hurt to have a couple more, one on "summer", another on NZ, third on Although, as you say, they are riveting by 2022 (in February 2008, tests of the AL-41F1S engine were completed, which made it possible to start flight tests). Do you think they will have time to rivet and test another 12 (two) per year?
                      4. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 5 January 2021 20: 39
                        +3
                        for 1 (one) serial SU-57, one engine presented on the VIDEO is quite enough, although it would not hurt to have a couple more, one on the “letake”, another on the NZ, the third in repair!

                        If you noticed, the Su-57 is equipped with two engines. One is usually put during tests. More or less like this.



                        Although, as you say, maybe by 2022 they rivet

                        I really hope for it. yes

                        (in February 2008, tests of the AL-41F1S engine were completed, which made it possible to start flight tests). Those. for this hour 12 (twelve years) as invented, but everything is tested.

                        This engine has completed testing and is in operation. in particular installed on the Su-35
                        http://roe.ru/catalog/vozdushno-kosmicheskie-sily/dvigateli/al-41f-1s/

                        The AL-41F1 is under development. If I am not mistaken, they differ in the control system and more traction. There are so many modifications, it is easy to get confused in this, especially for us mere mortals. laughing
                      5. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
                        Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 5 January 2021 23: 02
                        -2
                        And so there is no new engine, despite the development of resources for 12 years? Well, probably for the remaining year or two, everything will change dramatically! I say: Blessed is he who believes!
                        And they come up with modifications, if only they allocate money!
                      6. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 5 January 2021 23: 10
                        +2
                        And so there is no new engine, despite the development of resources for 12 years

                        What kind of engine are you talking about? In general, the process is complicated, not everyone succeeds. For example, the Chinese have been struggling with the task for decades, only they seem to have given birth to something to replace the D-30, and the characteristics are not clear, it may well be another "Swiss watch" from China.

                        Well, probably for the remaining year or two, everything will change dramatically! I say: Blessed is he who believes!

                        Have you tried making engines yourself? Can you do it faster?

                        And they come up with modifications, if only they allocate money!

                        Are you speaking as an expert or as a grumpy layman?
                      7. Alexander K_2 Offline Alexander K_2
                        Alexander K_2 (Alexander K) 5 January 2021 23: 19
                        -3
                        I am like a sane person. What do we care about the Chinese, the Chinese are throwing satellites to the moon and Mars! And if they don’t invent, then they will copy the hearts for their “letakovs”!
                        If Russia does not change its attitude to Science, Industry, People, Ideology, it will only have to shoot videos and write fairy tales!
                      8. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 6 January 2021 00: 27
                        +2
                        I am like a sane person. What do we care about the Chinese, the Chinese are throwing satellites to the Moon and Mars!

                        Well, let them throw it. Are you sorry? And engines for airplanes are still bought from us for countries capable of producing less than they fly into space.

                        And if they don’t invent, then they will copy the hearts for their “letakovs”!

                        Of course they will, the question is only in time. The process is long. By then, a new generation engine will appear. But you won't learn to copy, this is not an iPhone for you.

                        If Russia does not change its attitude to Science, Industry, People, Ideology, it will only have to shoot videos and write fairy tales!

                        What other ideology do you need? Do you want to build communism again? Let's try some of the neighbors first?
                        After all, what is typical, tokomaks, colliders, reactors, icebreakers, airplanes, do, and hypersound without science and developed industry can not be mastered. What are you going to change there? By people, I am totally against it. I know your concern. I saw how it happens. You plow for the good of your native state, because the Egyptians still need to build dams for it, or the Chinese have to raise industry. And then look if you can put something in the refrigerator. But you will receive a letter.
  • anclevalico Offline anclevalico
    anclevalico (Victor) 4 January 2021 08: 03
    0
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    And they sat in bast shoes with a splinter.

    You made my day! Neighing heartily. Saviors of mankind ...
  • Barmaley_2 Offline Barmaley_2
    Barmaley_2 (Barmaley) 12 January 2021 01: 56
    0
    Don't say gop ... And, secondly, "China's interest" is a strange interpretation against the background of the fact that the Chinese say that, like, the engines themselves are already doing no worse, and indeed their aircraft is of the 5th generation, and drying is not a fifth. What kind of untranslatable national folklore.
  • svarga911 Offline svarga911
    svarga911 (Sergei) 17 January 2021 20: 40
    0
    Why is it actually the most powerful? "Product 30" at afterburner 18t, and the F-35 engine 19,5t. And it has been put on for 10 years, and ours is not ready yet. And I think that not a fig did not turn off promising developments. Probably already something new on the ointment ...
    We lag behind in military engines for 30 years (F-22 in 1990 first flight), for civilians count by 50.
    1. caiman Offline caiman
      caiman (buf) 18 January 2021 09: 40
      0
      you seem to have chewed everything on the shelves, but everything exactly does not reach you))))), the f-35 engine is the engine ONLY FOR A SINGLE-ENGINE AIRCRAFT, we don't have such fighters,
      1. svarga911 Offline svarga911
        svarga911 (Sergei) 7 May 2021 11: 26
        0
        yeah, this engine is only for a single-engine, these three are only for a three-engine, and so on.
  • caiman Offline caiman
    caiman (buf) 18 January 2021 09: 37
    0
    what kind of nonsense does the author write - Soviet engines during the entire Cold War were always more powerful than American ones, firstly, for a moment 15 and the Sabers had the same engine ENGLISH))), then in Vietnam the F-4 engine was many times more powerful than engine mig-21, then f-15 for a very long time surpassed all our fighters thanks to the most powerful engines at that time, and even at the moment f-15 has very powerful engines that are not inferior to and even superior in power to the same su- thirty,