Continuation of Turkish Stream started working

58

On January 1, 2021, Serbia began receiving natural gas through the extension of the Turkish Stream main pipeline, which runs along the bottom of the Black Sea, as well as the territories of Turkey and Bulgaria. Prior to this, the "blue fuel" in this Balkan country came in transit through Hungary and Ukraine.

Serbian media showed how the country's President Aleksandr Vucic personally launches the start of the supply of raw materials through the Kireevo-Zaicar gas acceptance and delivery point on the border with Bulgaria. For Serbia, this is an incredibly significant event that will allow modernizing the economy country.



Serbia has received an alternative gas supply option and is no longer dependent on Ukraine. In addition, the route is much cheaper, since Hungary sometimes demanded up to $ 70 for the transit of 1 thousand cubic meters of gas, and the price through Bulgaria will be from $ 12 to $ 14

- informed RIA News" regional energy expert Elitsa Putnikovich.

The purchase price of raw materials for Serbia is $ 155 per 1 cubic meters of gas. 13,88 billion cubic meters of gas per year will be pumped through the country. Now Serbia itself is turning into a transit country.

It will be able to rebuild its own energy sector, and coal will be replaced by gas, improving the environment. Gazprom Energoholding is already constructing a thermal power plant in Pancevo near Belgrade, and similar projects exist in other regions. Gasification of the south of the country will be carried out. In the north of the country (in the province of Vojvodina), construction of new production facilities is underway, which will be very useful for gas.

Serbia spends a little over 2 billion cubic meters of gas a year, but in the future the consumption will increase to 4 billion cubic meters of gas. This volume will be sufficient for new connections, industrial zones and supply of private households

- the expert clarified.

Initially, up to 15 million cubic meters of gas will be supplied per day, while Serbia in winter consumes up to 12 million cubic meters of gas daily. This means that we will get enough for supplies to Bosnia and Herzegovina through the existing gas pipeline in Sarajevo, and then it is planned to build another branch to Banja Luka

- explained the expert.

We remind you that back in December 2019, the Serbs completed the construction of a 402 km section of the pipeline and compressor stations on their territory. December 25, 2020 Serbia, after the completion of work in Bulgaria, held successful tests of your site. Now that the continuation of the Turkish Stream is operational, Russian gas can freely flow to Europe through Serbian territory.
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    1. bobba94
      bobba94
      0
      1 January 2021 20: 15
      Yesterday there was an article about Azerbaijani gas that went to Europe via the TAP gas pipeline. I read the comments ....... An article appeared today about Russian gas that went to Europe via the Turkish Stream gas pipeline. I look forward to comments ......
      1. Bakht
        Bakht
        +2
        1 January 2021 20: 57
        A comment:
        EUROPE NEEDS GAS !!!!
      2. Uneven
        Uneven
        -4
        1 January 2021 22: 28
        Gazprom simply did not have time. It was outstripped by the TANAP project, and the final point will be put by the EastMed project to supply gas to Southern Europe from the Eastern Mediterranean. Moreover, the countries of Southern Europe themselves are investing in this project, and therefore they are interested in the implementation of the Eastern Mediterranean project, leaving all the rest as a reserve opportunity. In addition, there is a rapidly developing LNG market, which also diversifies risks and dependence on the monopoly of suppliers.
        As a result, instead of capturing new markets, the Turkish Stream actually redistributes gas supplies within its traditional consumers. By the way, Bosnia and Herzegovina is not a market at all. For 20 years, about 5 billion cubic meters of gas have been supplied to BiH. Applied at 250 million cubic meters per year, and with a diminishing dynamics: in 2019, supplies amounted to about 60 million cubic meters. So, mentioning BiH, along with Serbia, which receives about 1 billion cubic meters per year, can only be "for the company."
        Redistribution is good. But it doesn’t cover the costs of the Turkish Stream. It's just transferring from one pocket to another. And if we take into account that the Ukrainian transit in the coming years under the 19-year contract was concluded on the “download or pay” principle, then the costs for it are non-decreasing. Whether or not gas flows through it to Serbia, you will have to pay for 40 billion cubic meters a year in any case.
        But these details, of course, no one will announce out loud. Because questions and doubts will arise. Although, let's be frank, everything is already clear. Both Turkish Stream and Nord Stream-2, together with the infrastructure built on Russian territory, are entirely political and completely unprofitable projects. Tens of billions of dollars will never pay off, and these costs will be borne by the Russian consumer, who will pay all the miscalculations out of his own pocket.
        1. 123
          123
          +3
          2 January 2021 01: 54
          Svidomo epos quote? Can't use your own words?
          1. Uneven
            Uneven
            -4
            2 January 2021 10: 12
            And at least touch the topic, weakly?
      3. goga3913
        goga3913
        +2
        2 January 2021 05: 53
        The comment is that Ukraine is throwing off what does not belong to it by right, TRANSIT!
        1. Uneven
          Uneven
          -2
          2 January 2021 10: 16
          Ukraine gets the main thing - MONEY for transit. Moreover, regardless of its volume. Even if there is net zero, all the same, according to the agreement, Gazprom will pay Ukraine 0 billion cubic meters for transit within 5 years. gas annually.
          1. 123
            123
            +1
            2 January 2021 13: 22
            Ukraine gets the main thing - MONEY for transit. Moreover, regardless of its volume. Even if there is net zero, all the same, according to the agreement, Gazprom will pay Ukraine 0 billion cubic meters for transit within 5 years. gas annually.

            Do you plan to exist for more than 5 years? Doesn't this "distant" perspective interest you?
            By the way, there are 4 years left .... the clock is ticking ... tick ... so ... time is running out inexorably.
            1. Uneven
              Uneven
              -3
              2 January 2021 21: 50
              4 years left

              Then we will draw conclusions.
              1. 123
                123
                +1
                2 January 2021 22: 37
                Then we will draw conclusions.

                That is, I am right, and for a period of 4 years all strategic plans end? End of the story?
                1. Uneven
                  Uneven
                  -1
                  3 January 2021 12: 03
                  What did you mean? You are blown off topic all the time. As far as I remember, Turkish Stream is a RUSSIAN project. Here they discuss its meaning and meaning, as well as related plans. Let me remind you: TP and Nord Stream -2 were conceived as an alternative to Ukrainian gas transit to Europe, as a punishment for Ukraine for its withdrawal to the West. For the sake of pushing through the TP in the format of 4 branches, Russia got involved in the Syrian adventure, planning to take control of the Syrian-Turkish border and using the Kurdish factor to create pressure on Turkey in order to force it to agree with Russian plans. But it did not break off. The Turkish-Syrian border + the buffer zone on the Syrian territory was taken under control by the Turks, and after they shot down the Russian SU-24, plans for 4 branches of the TP collapsed. SP-2, even in case of completion of construction and launch, will not help to get away from the Ukrainian transit, because under the terms of its operation, Gazprom is prohibited from filling it by more than 50%.
                  In addition to the fact that Russia was forced to pay Ukraine for 5 years for the fixed volume of gas pumped through the Ukrainian transit, it also paid Ukraine $ 3 billion.
                  We must assume that all of the above exactly corresponded to the strategic plans of the Kremlin "strategist"?
                  1. 123
                    123
                    +1
                    3 January 2021 13: 36
                    What did you mean? You are blown off topic all the time. As far as I remember, Turkish Stream is a RUSSIAN project. Here they discuss its meaning and meaning, as well as the plans associated with it. Let me remind you: TP and Nord Stream -2 were conceived as an alternative to Ukrainian gas transit to Europe, as a punishment for Ukraine for its withdrawal to the West.

                    Again the Sumerian epic? Ukraine has become an unreliable and unpredictable partner; an alternative to transit is needed. What punishment are you talking about? Ukraine punishes itself laughing

                    For the sake of pushing through the TP in the format of 4 branches, Russia got involved in the Syrian adventure, planning to take control of the Syrian-Turkish border and using the Kurdish factor to create pressure on Turkey in order to force it to agree with Russian plans. But it did not break off. The Turks took control of the Turkish-Syrian border + the buffer zone on the Syrian territory, and after they shot down the Russian SU-24, plans for 4 branches of the TP collapsed.

                    Do you think Erdogan is being forced to build pipelines? laughing good lol

                    SP-2, even in case of completion of construction and launch, will not help to get away from the Ukrainian transit, because under the terms of its operation, Gazprom is prohibited from filling it by more than 50%.

                    I have to disappoint you, European partners threw you, their shirt is closer to their body. Loading over 50% is already provided. Formally, Austrian gas flows through the pipe.

                    Gazprom signed a long-term contract with the Austrian OMV for the supply of gas to the largest market for the monopoly in Germany. According to Kommersant's information, the volume of the contract may be 6 billion cubic meters, the term - 15 years. According to analysts, the new contract may help Gazprom solve the problem of gas supplies via Nord Stream 2. Currently, European legislation prohibits the monopoly from loading the pipeline with its own gas by more than 50%, but by selling gas to European companies that support the project with a delivery point in Russia, the monopoly will be able to bypass this restriction.

                    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4595444

                    In addition to the fact that Russia was forced to pay Ukraine for 5 years for the fixed volume of gas pumped through the Ukrainian transit, it also paid Ukraine $ 3 billion.

                    You can rejoice and live on. You still don't intend to exist for more than 5 years? Remaining 4. Time is running out. What will you do next?

                    We must assume that all of the above exactly corresponded to the strategic plans of the Kremlin "strategist"?

                    I'm not sure if this is the case. But these are only tactical failures. The strategic plan is being implemented. There will be transit bypassing Ukraine, but American LNG in Europe is unlikely to become a mass commodity.
                    1. Uneven
                      Uneven
                      -1
                      3 January 2021 14: 05
                      Ukraine punishes itself

                      The one who graciously accepts Russian money?

                      Do you think Erdogan is being forced to build pipelines?

                      Erdogan decides whether to agree with Putin's wishes on his territory or not.

                      According to analysts, the new contract may help Gazprom solve the problem of gas supplies via Nord Stream 2

                      So we will check the unnamed "analysts" - will it help?

                      You still don't intend to exist for more than 5 years?

                      Please, a reference - where did you get this from? Or again "amateur performance"?

                      The strategic plan is being implemented.

                      Is it possible in more detail?
                      1. 123
                        123
                        +1
                        3 January 2021 14: 22
                        The one who graciously accepts Russian money?

                        She accepts them from everywhere wherever she can, but somehow they don't go to good use. Do you know what the girls call "graciously accepting" money from everyone? winked

                        Erdogan decides whether to agree with Putin's wishes on his territory or not.

                        This is not "Putin's Wishlist", but a commercial project, for which, by the way, Turkey receives a lot of money. And yet, yes, Erdogan himself decides what will happen on his territory, this is not Bulgaria.

                        So we will check the unnamed "analysts" - will it help?

                        What are you going to check there? belay It says “blue on green”, Austrians buy gas from Russia, their gas goes through the pipe. All formalities were followed. The norms of the third package are met, filling over 50: provided. Everyone is happy and satisfied, well, almost everyone laughing

                        Please, a reference - where did you get this from? Or again "amateur performance"?

                        Exclusively from your words. You are ecstatic from a five-year contract, and you find it difficult to answer the question of what next. And I asked him more than once. Hence the conclusion, you just do not know what's next. So I believe that for more than 5 years the existence of Ukraine is in question. Disappoint me and tell me that it is not so smile

                        Is it possible in more detail?

                        And what is more detailed? Building a pipe is not a strategic plan or an end in itself, it is a means to an end.
                        The strategy is to maintain a presence in the European market, prevent American LNG from being allowed there and remove from the "equation" controlled by "partners" satellites like Ukraine and Poland. So far, although not without problems, "the plan is being successfully implemented.
                        1. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -2
                          4 January 2021 12: 06
                          She accepts them from everywhere where she can, but somehow they don't go to the point

                          a) Do you prefer to give away?
                          "Putin forgave Africa billions and won a standing ovation"
                          https://secretmag.ru/news/putin-prostil-afrike-milliardy-i-sorval-ovacii.htm
                          b) In terms of the effectiveness of "procs" it is better to be equal to the leaders: Not everyone can afford to waste additional oil trillions of dollars. But the Russian leadership has solved this problem! In addition, it also swept away all non-pensioners by a total of more than 100 trillion rubles.

                          a commercial project for which, by the way, Turkey receives a lot of money.

                          For which we fought! Not everyone works at a loss.

                          Austrians buy gas from Russia, their gas goes through the pipe

                          In the first half of 2020, Russian exports to Austria decreased by 10%, to 6,6 billion cubic meters. m. And what does the not completed SP-2 have to do with it?

                          So I guess

                          You are free to "believe" as you like, this is absolutely not reflected in reality.

                          The strategy is to maintain a presence in the European market, prevent American LNG from being allowed there and remove from the "equation" controlled by "partners" satellites like Ukraine and Poland. So far, although not without problems, "the plan is being successfully implemented.

                          a) I won't even argue about Gazprom's "Wishlist".
                          b) If everything is so rosy, then how do you explain THIS: "Gazprom" was caught selling
                          gas to myself "?
                          https://lenta.ru/news/2019/09/13/statistika/
                          c) By the way, gas is consumed in Europe from about a dozen countries. For what reason will only American LNG be "not allowed"?
                        2. 123
                          123
                          0
                          4 January 2021 15: 51
                          a) Do you prefer to give away?
                          "Putin forgave Africa billions and won a standing ovation"

                          Sometimes great powers have to do this, you know, clients are poor, there is simply no prospect of getting a debt request Here are some links especially for you about how it happens in Haiti, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Nigeria. Surely soon the issue of writing off Ukraine's debt will appear on the agenda. winked
                          https://www.vedomosti.ru/library/news/2009/07/08/parizhskij-klub-kreditorov-spisal-gaiti-ves-dolg
                          https://echo.msk.ru/news/217420.html
                          https://www.rbc.ru/economics/20/04/2006/5703c2e39a7947dde8e0a6cd

                          b) In terms of the effectiveness of "procs" it is better to be equal to the leaders: Not everyone can afford to waste additional oil trillions of dollars. But the Russian leadership has solved this problem! In addition, it also swept away all non-pensioners by a total of more than 100 trillion rubles.

                          Svidomo epic again? You voice some strange data, and then you will say that you gave facts smile

                          In the first half of 2020, Russian exports to Austria decreased by 10%, to 6,6 billion cubic meters. m. And what does the not completed SP-2 have to do with it?

                          Can't you read? This is how gas flows through SP-2 beyond the limitations of the third energy package. Why did they not penetrate so much gas, maybe the Ukrainians will be sold laughing

                          a) I won't even argue about Gazprom's "Wishlist".

                          And rightly so, because there is nothing to object. I briefly outlined your strategy on the gas market, and by the way, this applies not only to Gazprom.

                          b) If everything is so rosy, how do you explain THIS: "Gazprom was caught selling gas to itself"?

                          Firstly, I did not say that everything is rosy. Secondly, there is very little data on the deal in the article, so it is difficult to draw a conclusion. Share more detailed information, we will surely find an explanation. Maybe he will not sell gas directly to someone.

                          c) By the way, gas is consumed in Europe from about a dozen countries. For what reason will only American LNG be "not allowed"?

                          It is for the very reason that the United States is trying to prevent Russian gas from entering Europe and is doing a lot for this. True, the results are quite controversial No. They achieved essentially two things:

                          1) Uncompetitive price of American LNG. There are actually not so many idiots who want to buy "freedom molecules".
                          2) The banal physical absence of the gas itself. Shale gas production is falling, the industry is massively bankrupt and no recovery is expected.
                        3. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -3
                          4 January 2021 17: 38
                          Sometimes great powers have to do it

                          Look carefully, there is not about them. I'm talking about the RF.
                          a) It is strange that you do not know the fact that every Russian non-retired person was depleted by 1000000 (rounded up) rubles ... Multiply this amount by the number of people living in this category.
                          b) The graphs were not enough to represent the amount of oil "surplus profits" received by the Russian Federation?

                          gas flows through SP-2 in excess of the limitations of the third energy package

                          As far as I know, nothing "goes" there yet.

                          What you have outlined as a "strategy" (while maintaining the current international alignments), the maximum pulls on non-science fiction.

                          Selling gas to yourself for the sake of fulfilling the plan launched from above becomes the norm for Gazprom. In the same way, the company acted at the end of last year to report on the achievement of record exports and breaking the bar of 200 billion cubic meters per year.

                          https://www.finanz.ru/novosti/aktsii/gazprom-nachal-prodavat-gaz-sam-sebe-1028523074

                          Despite the collapse in world LNG prices and the related problems for US suppliers, they continued to increase their market share.
                          So, year-on-year, the United States increased LNG sales to Europe and Turkey by 129%, to 17,4 billion cubic meters (this is about 6,2% of the market)

                          https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4451721
                        4. 123
                          123
                          +1
                          4 January 2021 18: 39
                          Look carefully, there is not about them. I'm talking about the RF.

                          Judge by their deeds. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it is probably a duck. What can you argue with? I don’t believe it?

                          It’s strange that you don’t know the fact that every Russian non-pensioner was deducted by 1000000 (rounded up) rubles ... Multiply this amount by the number of people living in this category.

                          It is strange that you persistently continue to carry this nonsense. Give the facts, and "here it is," buy a goose in the market and read it to him.

                          Were the graphs not enough to represent the amount of oil "super profits" received by the Russian Federation?

                          No, not enough. Yes, sales fell as well as income, what follows from this? Perhaps some events have gone unnoticed for you ... coronavirus, crisis. Now everyone has it. And in general, I'm tired of "pulling ticks" information. express your thought clearly. you make some strange hints and expect me to draw certain conclusions. The result is unlikely to satisfy you because your initial data are erroneous and we are unlikely to come to the same conclusions. Request to change the manner of presenting thoughts. Otherwise, the correspondence loses all meaning.

                          As far as I know, nothing "goes" there yet.

                          Yes, you are right, wrong, we are talking about SP-1. I described to you the mechanism by which the 50% restrictions are bypassed. Now this is not a problem.

                          What you have outlined as a "strategy" (while maintaining the current international alignments) pulls maximum for non-science fiction.

                          This is your value judgment. Want to give a different opinion? Flag in hand, if not, then get rid of your empty word sets. I did not see any information in this statement. You just don't believe it. Why, what exactly are the discrepancies and what you think the strategy of Gazprom is is completely unclear. I repeat, if you have something to say, say, if not, goodbye.

                          Selling gas to yourself for the sake of fulfilling the plan launched from above becomes the norm for Gazprom. In the same way, the company acted at the end of last year to report on the achievement of record exports and breaking the bar of 200 billion cubic meters per year.

                          Are you saying "quotes" again? Find it difficult to formulate with your own words?
                          The link voiced the opinion of the editorial board that Gazprom is doing this to fulfill the plan. Is it really difficult to say. Where can you see this plan? The Gazprom Marketing & Trading subsidiary has several lines of business, including retail gas trading, LNG trading and gas transportation.
                          https://www.gazprom-mt.com/WhatWeDo/Pages/default.aspx

                          It is somewhat difficult to do this without having the gas itself at its disposal; it is strange to buy gas from a third-party company. In general, I do not see anything strange in the fact of this sale.

                          Despite the collapse in world LNG prices and the related problems for US suppliers, they continued to increase their market share.
                          So, year-on-year, the United States increased LNG sales to Europe and Turkey by 129%, to 17,4 billion cubic meters (this is about 6,2% of the market)

                          You have a disgusting way of speaking in quotes. negative Find some old article, and then I will explain elementary things to you.
                          1) Article for August 2020.Some time has passed since then and the situation has changed. A month after the events described:

                          The USA reduced the supply of LNG to Europe by 3,9%

                          https://neftegaz.ru/news/spg-szhizhennyy-prirodnyy-gaz/630547-ssha-snizili-postavki-spg-v-evropu-na-3-9/

                          For December it looks like this:

                          LNG supplies to Europe fell by 40%

                          https://www.finanz.ru/novosti/birzhevyye-tovary/postavki-spg-v-evropu-rukhnuli-na-40percent-1029861466

                          2) As for August itself ...

                          the fall in oil and gas production in the United States will continue

                          https://1prime.ru/energy/20200814/831911578.html

                          3) Russian gas is supplied to Europe not only by Gazprom, as for LNG itself

                          Russia and the United States can hardly be called major players in the global LNG market. In total the share of both countries in the global trade in liquefied gas is only 12,4%, Russia has 5,8%, and the USA has 6,6%... This is significantly less than the recognized leaders - Qatar and Australia, 24,5% and 21,2%, respectively. However, only last year, Russia and America bypassed all small players, and there are practically no medium-sized players on the LNG market, with the exception of Malaysia - 7,9%, Nigeria - 6,3%, and Indonesia - 5,8%, all of them showing a decline export of liquefied gas.
                          http://www.ngv.ru/magazines/article/spg-vne-politiki/

                          The fact that the Americans delivered for August (17,4 billion cubic meters, about 6,2% of the market) are not significant volumes. Only Gazprom has about 30% of the market, and there are other companies, such as Novatek.
                        5. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -2
                          4 January 2021 20: 12
                          If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then this is probably a duck.

                          ... or its image on the screen.
                          We have different criteria for "greatness".

                          Let's get the facts

                          Do you know anything about the past pension "reform"?

                          express your thoughts clearly

                          Is it difficult for you to perceive information without chewing on the obvious things?

                          The Gazprom Marketing & Trading subsidiary has several lines of business, including retail gas trading, LNG trading and gas transportation.

                          According to Gazprom's own statistics, the gas was sold to Austria and the Netherlands, countries where the company's largest underground storage facilities are located. But these deliveries did not reach the end buyers: for example, only 1,1 billion cubic meters were sold from underground storage facilities in the Netherlands (against 2,6 billion a year earlier), and in Austria - 0,99 billion cubic meters (against 1,7 billion in 2017 year).
                          The gas was bought by Gazprom itself, represented by its European subsidiary Gazprom Marketing & Trading.

                          You have a disgusting way of speaking in quotes.

                          No problem. In short: Europe is striving for maximum diversification of gas supplies. To resolve this issue, it is required to bring the share of all sellers to a level at which the disposal of any of them would not be a disaster. First of all, this is a political issue, since it will save the Europeans from the potential threat of the dictates of monopolistic sellers, so all new sellers with reasonable volumes will be welcomed. Having achieved a situation in which the buyer (Europe) can choose with whom to deal with, it is possible to suppress prices. For the sake of achieving this result, at this stage, sometimes it is not scary to overpay.
                          About trends sometime next time.
                        6. 123
                          123
                          +2
                          4 January 2021 20: 48
                          We have different criteria for "greatness".

                          True? And what are yours? Would you like to share?

                          Do you know anything about the past pension "reform"?

                          You are making progress good On the second day it became clear what you were talking about. Yes, the pension reform is not pleasant. And let's see around what the neighbors, for example, is going on. It turns out there, too, the age is raised. Are they also disgusting and strive to "put on shoes" for pensioners, or are there any reasons?
                          https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-45226652

                          And this is how the French rejoice in the pension reform.
                          https://rg.ru/2019/12/07/vo-francii-pensionnaia-reforma-privela-k-vseobshchej-zabastovke-i-pogromam.html

                          What a bastard this Macron is laughing and in Ukraine there is talk of a complete abolition of pensions.
                          https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5f7914119a7947395871c1f6

                          This is how interesting it turns out, reforms are going on in many places, and only we have "shoes".

                          Is it difficult for you to perceive information without chewing on the obvious things?

                          In your case, yes, because what is swarming in your head is not clear, what seems obvious to you, for others it is not at all so.

                          The Gazprom Marketing & Trading subsidiary has several lines of business, including retail gas trading, LNG trading and gas transportation. "
                          “According to the statistics of Gazprom itself, gas was sold to Austria and the Netherlands, the countries where the company's largest underground storage facilities are located. But these deliveries did not reach the end buyers: for example, only 1,1 billion cubic meters were sold from the underground storage facilities in the Netherlands (against 2,6 billion a year earlier), and in Austria - 0,99 billion cubic meters (against 1,7 billion in 2017 year).
                          The gas was bought by Gazprom itself, represented by its European subsidiary Gazprom Marketing & Trading. >

                          You got your quotes am If you have something to say, say no, go to the forest fellow What should I do with this quote? To admire your ability to copy letters?

                          Europe is striving for maximum diversification of gas supplies. To resolve this issue, it is required to bring the share of all sellers to a level at which the disposal of any of them will not be a disaster. First of all, this is a political issue, since it will save the Europeans from the potential threat of the dictates of monopolistic sellers, so all new sellers with reasonable volumes will be welcomed. Having achieved a situation in which the buyer (Europe) can choose with whom to deal with, it is possible to suppress prices. For the sake of achieving this result, at this stage, sometimes it is not scary to overpay.

                          What Europe is striving for, you briefly described, I described Gazprom's strategy to you, there are still Americans who are trying to replace Russian gas with their own, and there are also a bunch of smaller suppliers striving to occupy their niche in the market.
                          You can clearly see what it is that turns out by the dynamics of sales.

                          The situation in this "tangle" is complicated; it simply will not work to describe everything in two words.
                          Europe, for example, is trying to reduce Russia's share in the market and restrict transit through the Baltic, Russia, in response, does not give Turkmen gas access to the European market. It is difficult to say what the Europeans would do better. Azerbaijani gas alone is not enough for this.

                          By the way, "at this stage, sometimes it is not scary to overpay" means the collapse of the European economy and they do not strive for this. As it is not scary, Ukraine very clearly shows.
                        7. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -2
                          4 January 2021 21: 16
                          1)
                          And what are yours? Would you like to share?

                          For example, such powerful countries as Estonia do not make territorial claims to the "Great".
                          The "Great" presidents are not included in the sanctions lists and are not forced to apply for permission to attend a sporting event abroad. And athletes of the "Great" are not forced to compete under the white flag in the absence of the symbols of their country.
                          The closest "partners" and allies do not spit on the "Greats", refusing to acknowledge their adventures.
                          The standard of living of the citizens of "Great" is an unattainable dream of everyone else ...
                          2) It is clear that apart from "himself d." on pensions you have nothing to answer.
                          3) The financial capabilities of the EU and Ukraine are somewhat different. For the time being, you don't have to worry about the Europeans. And success in politics usually pays dividends. And they will help Ukraine. NATO got such a country without any military action!
                        8. 123
                          123
                          +2
                          4 January 2021 22: 45
                          Tellingly, at all points there is a bailiff "not". Don't do that, don't do that. In general, your criteria are rather strange.

                          For example, such powerful countries as Estonia do not make territorial claims to the "Great".

                          For example, it is enough for Cuba to declare territorial claims to Florida or Tajikistan to Tibet. Is that all? China and the United States thrown off the pedestal? winked

                          "Great" presidents are not included in the sanctions lists

                          Sanctions are the prerogative of the UN Security Council, all other restrictions.

                          are not forced to apply for permission to attend a sporting event abroad. And athletes of the "Great" are not forced to compete under the white flag in the absence of the symbols of their country.

                          In both cases, these are measures on the part of the Anglo-Saxons, who essentially keep the code in control of the Olympic movement. Major sponsors in the USA. It turns out that the criterion of greatness is either control over the Olympic Committee, or the favor of the Anglo-Saxons? A very strange criterion.

                          The closest "partners" and allies do not spit on the "Greats", refusing to acknowledge their adventures.

                          What an interesting criterion ....
                          This was the reaction to the US invasion of Iraq:

                          The European Union's response to US foreign policy statements has been mixed. Within the EU there is a split of European states into allies and opponents of the United States in solving the Iraqi problem.
                          The group of European supporters of the United States policy towards Iraq includes Great Britain, Portugal, Denmark, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain. American policy found support in a number of Central and Eastern European countries that were at that time candidates for EU membership. Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, being NATO members, supported with the USA.

                          http://evolutio.info/ru/journal-menu/2005-2/2005-2-talayko

                          As you can see, the list of supporters does not include, for example, Germany or France.
                          And who is China's ally?
                          As a result, these countries do not come out great. request Who will be considered great?

                          So it turns out that all your criteria are not workable, even taking into account the fact that they are clearly tailored to one country. They are not even suitable for propaganda.

                          It is clear that in addition to "himself d." on pensions you have nothing to answer.

                          What answer are you waiting for? Many people change the retirement age, I gave you examples. But are we going to pretend that this is a completely different matter?

                          The financial capabilities of the EU and Ukraine are somewhat different. For the time being, you don't have to worry about the Europeans.

                          How, it turns out, if the state has less money than Russia (like Ukraine) or more (like in the EU), is that a completely different matter? Where does this selectivity come from?

                          And success in politics usually pays dividends.

                          True? And what do you consider successes and what dividends do they bring?

                          And they will help Ukraine.

                          Of course, of course ... help ... And when? smile Isn't the time yet? How long does she have to wait? 10 years-20? thirty? Will she make it?

                          NATO got such a country without any military action!

                          What to do, "little sister" broke away from the family and went from hand to hand.
                          You can call in Germany, one old man lives there, knock him on a spotted bald head.
                          Since 1991, Ukraine has been an independent independent state, at least it was ...
                          And where she flooded there, on what brothels she shies away, where and with whom she sleeps, this is primarily her problem, she is an "adult". She herself fell under the Nazis and NATO members. And this is primarily her responsibility. Russia should not be "blamed" for this. Claim to the wrong address. You will not judge Germany by England's exit from the EU. Nobody groans what country they lost laughing
                          And what about "what country did you lose", you can talk about this in the past tense, Ukraine is not the same, "got sick" "got drunk". The old beauty faded, the scythe fell off.
                        9. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -2
                          5 January 2021 10: 46
                          your criteria are rather strange

                          Everything is relative. You don't have any yet.

                          it is enough for Cuba to declare territorial claims to Florida or Tajikistan to Tibet. Is that all? China and the United States thrown off the pedestal?

                          As soon as possible. We wait!

                          Sanctions are the prerogative of the UN Security Council, all other restrictions

                          Does this make it easier for Russia?

                          It turns out that the criterion of greatness is either control over the Olympic Committee, or the favor of the Anglo-Saxons?

                          I will support your doubts as soon as Somalia begins to practice this.

                          And who among the supporters of the United States did not recognize, say, the annexation by the states of half of the territory of Mexico?

                          And who is China's ally?

                          Do you think China is a great country?

                          Many people change the retirement age

                          It was not about "many", but about the amounts that the citizens of Russia will not receive as a result of this "reform"

                          Where does this selectivity come from?

                          Do you prefer one size fits all?

                          Ukraine is not the same

                          Well, yes, again - the grapes are green. Why do we need SUCH Ukraine?
                          Let me remind you. Z. Brzezinski: "Russia with Ukraine is always an Empire, without Ukraine - never."
                          Russia tried very hard and did everything to alienate not only Ukraine, but also all the other former republics of the USSR.
                        10. 123
                          123
                          +2
                          5 January 2021 15: 07
                          Everything is relative. You don't have any yet.

                          You are right, you didn’t offer criteria, we need to think it over.
                          At a minimum, this is the ability to defend one's opinion, sovereignty, and ensure stability not only on its territory, but also abroad, if necessary. Ability to develop key (critical) technologies, control over the resource base. Well, perhaps a great country is capable of forgiving and being generous.

                          As soon as possible. We wait!

                          Let's wait Yes In the meantime, the United States has at least territorial disputes with Canada over the maritime border and a number of disputed islands
                          https://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2010/08/100802_canada_arctic_usa
                          https://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2016/02/160201_nato_countries_territorial_disputes

                          Does this make it easier for Russia?

                          Easier is not easier, you have to call things by their proper names, so their essence is clearer. Why is it only about Russia? These shameless boors behave this way with almost everyone, including satellites, who are formally considered allies.

                          I will support your doubts as soon as Somalia begins to practice this.

                          Practice what? Are you waiting for Somalia to take control of the Olympic Committee, or to seek the favor of the Anglo-Saxons?

                          And who among the supporters of the United States did not recognize, say, the annexation by the states of half of the territory of Mexico?

                          Who were the US allies at the time? Today's ones became listed much later, we are in no hurry anywhere.

                          Do you think China is a great country?

                          Why not? We are talking about great countries, which means at least she is not one and there are not so many candidates. But you probably only think of one. smile Then I don't understand your moaning, green card in the teeth and forward to the dream fellow Or do they not? request

                          It was not about "many", but about the amounts that the citizens of Russia will not receive as a result of this "reform"

                          A number of countries are undergoing similar processes; as a result of the reforms, the citizens of all these countries will receive less money. But we are only talking about Russia. It's like with oil, sales have fallen all over the world, and you are showing charts for Russia. we do not live in a vacuum.

                          Do you prefer one size fits all?

                          I prefer uniform criteria. And it turns out something like this, winter has come and we poke our finger at Russia, look at what we have sunk to, what the country has been brought to, they have snow and frost. As if the neighbors are warmer.

                          Well, yes, again - the grapes are green. Why do we need SUCH Ukraine?

                          I did not say that. Over time, this will come in handy. We will wash, comb, put in order. First time or what?

                          Let me remind you. Z. Brzezinski: "Russia with Ukraine is always an Empire, without Ukraine - never."

                          You also decided to turn the bones of the old Pole? And what he said about Ukraine without Russia, will you not quote? smile Who will she be? Russia is living and developing quite normally without Ukraine, it is difficult to say the same about the latter.

                          Russia tried very hard and did everything to alienate not only Ukraine, but also all the other former republics of the USSR.

                          Well, of course laughing Who told you such nonsense? the only way for local "elites" to sit on the throne is to stay away from Russia, otherwise, when uniting, they become an unnecessary link "a violinist is not needed" request In 1991, everyone rushed scattered, one of the first in Ukraine.
                          Themselves sunk to such a life, and you yourself and disentangle. And it turns out that they themselves were "naughty" somewhere, Russia is to blame. Will not work. No.
                        11. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -2
                          5 January 2021 15: 46
                          1) To summarize, the "Great" in its pure form does not exist.
                          Apparently you will have to work with what you have. After all (by and large) the point is not in the term.

                          2)
                          we are only talking about Russia.

                          I can not disagree.

                          3)
                          It's like with oil, sales have fallen all over the world, and you are showing charts for Russia. we don't live in a vacuum

                          I have to chew: On the basis of the graphs, one can imagine (calculate) the amount of oil "in excess of revenues" that were received and successfully squandered by the Russian administration.

                          4)
                          Russia is living and developing quite normally

                          Supporters of this opinion are melting before our eyes.

                          5)
                          the only way for local "elites" to sit on the throne is to stay away from Russia

                          We are not even talking about unification into a single state. It is enough to compare the number of those wishing to get into the CIS with those dreaming of EU membership.
                          It is clear, however, that this is due to envy of "normal life" in Russia and its rapid "development."
                        12. 123
                          123
                          +1
                          5 January 2021 16: 07
                          To summarize, the "Great" in its pure form does not exist.
                          Apparently you will have to work with what you have. After all (by and large) the point is not in the term.

                          So let's put this topic aside.

                          I can not disagree.

                          It won't work. Russia does not exist in a vacuum. If similar processes are taking place all over the world and Russia is often a part of them, we will not get an understanding of the essence of the processes. It's like in a hospital ward all patients discuss only one patient, how he came to that.

                          I have to chew: On the basis of the graphs, one can imagine (calculate) the amount of oil "in excess of revenues" that were received and successfully squandered by the Russian administration.

                          It doesn't work out very well No. apparently with teeth problems ...
                          It is possible to represent the amount of income by charts, but why reinvent the wheel? This is not a secret, use it for health hi
                          http://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_308390/
                          8e2dd0994342861d9616fc6cb51fd401f8b41f9e/

                          But about "successfully squandered by the Russian administration" is your speculation.

                          Supporters of this opinion are melting before our eyes.

                          This is your value judgment and nothing more.

                          We are not even talking about unification into a single state. It is enough to compare the number of those wishing to get into the CIS with those dreaming of EU membership.

                          Desires and dreams are not for me. I prefer reality. a couple of questions arose ... Why are not all "dreamers" taken? Why did England come out, stopped dreaming?

                          It is clear, however, that this is due to envy of "normal life" in Russia and its rapid "development."

                          Let's not talk about the rapidly developing Bulgaria and the Baltic states.
                          As soon as the flow of subsidies runs out, all this will be blown away, and by the way, the Poles too. Russia is tired of subsidizing fraternal republics, which is probably why there are fewer people willing.
                        13. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -3
                          5 January 2021 19: 44
                          all over the world there are similar processes and often Russia is a part of them

                          Russia has the largest amount of natural resources per capita.
                          But the income of this "soul" is several times less than the income of the population of countries in which there is practically nothing. Why?

                          apparently teeth problems

                          And with eyesight? Otherwise, how can you explain what you have seen on the charts only for the last couple of years?
                          Why are not all "dreamers" taken? Why did England come out, stopped dreaming?

                          I'm not talking about that. Why are they not "dreaming" about the CIS, but more and more about the EU?
                          Yes, they do not just dream, but also ask ...

                          As soon as...

                          And you say that you do not like to dream!
                        14. 123
                          123
                          +1
                          5 January 2021 20: 17
                          Russia has the largest amount of natural resources per capita.

                          Where does the data come from?

                          But the income of this "soul" is several times less than the income of the population of countries in which there is practically nothing. Why?

                          I watch you love charades? laughing
                          The question is complex, it is difficult to answer within the framework of this discussion. If you are able to summarize the essence so briefly, tell us why Manako has more incomes than Ukraine, and there are practically no natural resources. winked

                          And with eyesight? Otherwise, how can you explain what you have seen on the charts only for the last couple of years?

                          Apparently you have problems not only with your teeth sad Data for the rest of the years is not difficult to find and they are also freely available, can you tell how this is done? winked

                          I'm not talking about that. Why are they not "dreaming" about the CIS, but more and more about the EU?
                          Yes, they do not just dream, but also ask ...

                          I wrote to you, Russia does not give out freebies, the backboneers are tired. Sit on a European neck ... if you can laughing But even there, not everyone gets it, everything is according to the principle of a pyramid, the Poles were fed, then others pulled themselves up, now they get less. Do you have another version why all the "suffering" are not accepted there?

                          And you say that you do not like to dream!

                          What do dreams have to do with it? belay The amount of subsidies is steadily decreasing from year to year, and "applicants" will not see it at all.
                        15. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -3
                          5 January 2021 22: 16
                          1) First, I propose to deal with Russia. From Monaco, you yourself somehow: https://finance.rambler.ru/economics/41801253-skolko-stoyat-vse-izvestnye-resursy-rossii/
                          Can you sum it up?

                          2)
                          Russia does not distribute freebies

                          Over the entire post-Soviet period, Russia has helped Ukraine by about a quarter trillion dollars, said Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev.

                          https://www.interfax.ru/russia/373117

                          As far as I remember, the US "acquired" Ukraine for $ 5 billion. - A clear example of the effectiveness of the "brilliant" foreign policy of the Kremlin "grandmaster"

                          3)
                          The amount of subsidies is steadily decreasing from year to year, and "applicants" will not see it at all

                          And somewhere they give more? The euro (as opposed to the ruble) is a full-fledged world currency.
                          They will print as many as they need, and drive inflation to all consumers of the euro.
                        16. 123
                          123
                          +2
                          5 January 2021 23: 05
                          First, I propose to deal with Russia. With Monaco, you yourself somehow

                          It will not work No. Russia does not live on a separate planet, if we do not figure out why, for example, in Switzerland and Italy, Romania or Greece, the standard of living is different, although the conditions seem to be similar. Or why Ukraine 30 years ago "almost France", and today's "almost Mozambique". Why do the USA and Canada have different results, although they seem to have colonized territories at the same time, practically by the same people?
                          Can you answer these questions?
                          And the answer, which seems obvious to you, in relation to Russia .. at least it is not correct.
                          The collection on Rambler is curious Yes The truth remains a lot of unclear about the mechanism of calculations ... If the "natural storeroom" is generally clear, although there are still questions. Let's say somewhere in Chukotka a field has been taken into account, if it is developed, it will not be soon. How this should immediately improve people's well-being is not clear. Do we have to immediately develop all the fields?
                          There are even more questions with "intangible assets". Why, for example, social institutions, such as the institution of marriage, the institution of the family, etc. Is a family in Switzerland or Germany more expensive than ours or more valuable? Are we all sick and illiterate people? In general, rather strange calculations, and without understanding the mechanism of the formation of these numbers, I see no reason to discuss.

                          Can you sum it up?

                          But why? belay The link is the export of hydrocarbons. Someone denies that he is? you said that all this is, as it were, more delicate ... "propolymerized". How about this?

                          "Over the entire post-Soviet period, Russia has helped Ukraine by about a quarter of a trillion dollars, said Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev."

                          There was a case, but the source dries up, and they reached for a new one.

                          As far as I remember, the US "acquired" Ukraine for $ 5 billion. - A clear example of the effectiveness of the "brilliant" foreign policy of the Kremlin "grandmaster"

                          They buy livestock on the market. Is this how you feel about Ukraine? This is, first of all, a vivid example of the corruption of the Ukrainian "elite". For 5 billion they sold their Motherland. As for the "grandmaster", the comparison is not correct No. for Russia did not set itself the task of destroying Ukraine, but it is easier and cheaper. Break not build. The result is obvious.

                          And somewhere they give more? The euro (as opposed to the ruble) is a full-fledged world currency.

                          That's what I'm talking about. The craving for freebies is ineradicable. Have you tried to earn money yourself?

                          They will print as many as they need, and drive inflation to all consumers of the euro.

                          This mechanism works for the time being. What then? Doesn't the grass grow?
                        17. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -2
                          6 January 2021 14: 03
                          1)
                          Russia does not live on a separate planet, if we do not understand why, for example, in the same Switzerland and Italy, Romania or Greece, the standard of living is different, although the conditions seem to be similar

                          Do you propose to analyze material in the format of a commentary, which stretches for several theses? My spare time is not rubber. Here we would like to sort out some Russian issues.
                          But you have absolutely no interest in this (oddly enough).
                          Although, it would seem, everything is quite simple: Analyze the income and cost structure of the Russian Federation over the past couple of decades.

                          2)
                          Do we have to immediately develop all the fields?

                          On questions of this level pulls and answer accordingly, but I'd rather "chew": I propose to take into account only what has ALREADY been mined. This (along with other things) would be quite enough for a couple of industrializations of the country.

                          3) You have not explained how your "There was business" will contact your "Russia does not give out freebies"?

                          4)
                          Russia did not set the task of destroying Ukraine

                          In this case, it is not the purpose of the acquisition that matters, but only the price. This is quite enough to assess the qualifications of "buyers"

                          5)
                          What then?

                          The question is very topical for the Russian Federation, and it seems that the answer to it will be much less comforting than for the EU.
                        18. 123
                          123
                          +1
                          6 January 2021 18: 55
                          Do you propose to analyze material in the format of a commentary, which stretches for several theses? My spare time is not rubber. Here we would like to sort out some Russian issues.

                          Here it is !!! belay If we are talking about Russia, then you think that I will explain everything to you in two words, if it comes to identical processes in other countries, then you need to "analyze the material for several dissertations." sad

                          Here we would like to sort out some Russian issues.
                          But you have absolutely no interest in this (oddly enough).

                          The questions are the same, the difference is simply the names of the countries. You really want to figure it out, right? The processes are identical in Russia and in other countries.

                          Although, it would seem, everything is quite simple: Analyze the income and cost structure of the Russian Federation over the past couple of decades.

                          The methodology should work not only in Russia, if it is finished working. Try to apply it to the USA and Canada, compare the structure of income and expenses over the past 20 years. You will get an answer to the question why two neighboring countries inhabited by the same colonists at the same time achieved different results? smile What is not? Then it is not easy, and your approach is primitive. You don't understand anything about it request

                          On questions of this level pulls and answer accordingly, but I'd rather "chew": I propose to take into account only what has ALREADY been mined. This (along with other things) would be quite enough for a couple of industrializations of the country.

                          Spit it out, stuff out of your teeth, don't chew No. for the third day you keep repeating about how many "got" fellow and everything is "propolymerized". Honestly, I'm tired of pulling pincers out of you. What other than "this would be enough for 2 industrialization" do you have? Any data? By the way, more than 200 new productions are opened in Russia a year and so for 5 years in a row. And before that, they were building something. More or less like this.
                          http://www.enginrussia.ru/news/lenta-novostey/Oktjabr_nojabr_2014_obzor_novyh_proizvodstv/

                          This is the question of industrialization. take your head out of the sand, don't imitate the ostrich.

                          You have not explained how your "There was business" will contact your "Russia does not distribute freebies"?

                          In my opinion, it is clearly written, subsidies are cut and bachelors are drawn to another feeder.

                          In this case, it is not the purpose of the acquisition that matters, but only the price. This is quite enough to assess the qualifications of "buyers"

                          Build a house and destroy it ... you propose to promise it at a price? This first of all speaks about the stupidity of the "product".

                          The question is very topical for the Russian Federation, and it seems that the answer to it will be much less comforting than for the EU.

                          These are your wet dreams, something like "Ukraine will definitely be helped" laughing I wanted to hear something real, some numbers, justification. Anything other than faith.
                        19. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -3
                          6 January 2021 19: 37
                          1)
                          If we are talking about Russia, then you think that I will explain everything to you in two words

                          The problem is that you are not trying. What kind of abroad is there?

                          2)
                          The technique should work not only in Russia

                          Same. See item No. 1

                          3)
                          What other than "this would be enough for 2 industrialization" do you have? Any data?

                          You finally convinced me that you do not read my links. Do you want to discuss with you what you do not own?

                          4) Following your link on "open production" - tears. Do you call this "industrialization"?

                          5)
                          In my opinion, it is clearly written, subsidies are cut and bachelors are drawn to another feeder.

                          How are they "cut" if only one Ukraine was paid $ 250 billion?
                          Do you want to say that we will not date anyone else?

                          6)
                          Build a house and destroy it ... you propose to promise it at a price?

                          You understand perfectly well that paying fifty times more than a real customer and being left with nothing is, at least, complete shit.

                          7) Read: <Vladislav Zhukovsky: “Nothing will save us - neither $ 60 nor $ 500 oil”
                          https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/452511
                        20. 123
                          123
                          +2
                          6 January 2021 20: 36
                          The problem is that you are not trying. What kind of abroad is there?

                          Not trying what? You don't understand anything at all. You have no idea how to analyze it. All your thoughts boil down to - look how much money you got for oil and gas, and where are they? Of course they did. That's your whole analysis. fool

                          Same. See item No. 1

                          Well, try applying your technique to the US and Canada. You consider it a worker. I'm looking forward to the results winked

                          You finally convinced me that you do not read my links. Do you want to discuss with you what you do not own?

                          A very strange statement ...
                          I wish to discuss with myself what I do not possess. Did I understand you correctly? sad
                          I'm tired of your way of hiding behind links. Speak already, who stole and lost how much. Enlighten how money for oil and gas disappeared.

                          Following your link on "open production" - tears. Do you call this "industrialization"?

                          Yes, that's what I call industrialization. the link is the data for 2 months of 2014. This is just a fragment, a similar situation has been observed for several years, at least five. Want links? To health hi
                          https://sdelanounas.ru/

                          How are they "cut" if only one Ukraine was paid $ 250 billion?

                          How, how ... gradually. Do you understand what is paid? It is written in the past tense. The system of subsidizing the outskirts at the expense of Russia was built back in the Soviet Union, this is how the economy was built, it cannot be changed overnight.

                          Do you want to say that we will not date anyone else?

                          What do you mean we will? What have you got to do with it? Yours are all on the other side of the Dnieper, at least mentally. As for Russia, we will, but in much smaller volumes and only "ours" (Lukashenko as an example).

                          You understand perfectly well that paying fifty times more than a real customer and being left with nothing is, at least, complete shit.

                          Who is to blame for the stupidity of the "former" owner? Moreover, it is said loudly with nothing. They didn't buy this, but rather a lease. everything is so changeable.

                          Read: <Vladislav Zhukovsky: “Nothing will save us - neither $ 60 nor $ 500 worth of oil”

                          Thank you, glanced over, it doesn't deserve more. A stupid person who calls himself an economist predicts our inevitable collapse. A year has passed since then ... Which of his predictions came true?

                          Just an example of one of his stupidity ...

                          First, oil prices. They are being held high by two key factors. The first is the conspiracy between Russia and Saudi Arabia in 2016-2017 to limit oil production. As a result, both countries raised prices for black gold from $ 45 to $ 65-67 per barrel. If that hadn't happened, the price would have been $ 35-40 - and hello everyone.

                          Does this fool think that Russia has conspired with the Saudis and raised the price of oil? laughing

                        21. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -3
                          6 January 2021 22: 00
                          1)
                          Not trying what? You don't understand anything at all. You have no idea how to analyze it.

                          "you are not trying" to deal with Russian problems. And under any sauce you are trying to dodge it. And the answer lies on the surface - the Russian leadership is not acting in the interests of the country. And it doesn't matter - deliberately or (and) out of a fool, the result is sad.

                          2)
                          I wish to discuss with myself what I do not possess. Did I understand you correctly?

                          Significant disclaimer. I'll chew it, otherwise it won't work: "Do you want to discuss with you what you don't know? = Do you want me to discuss with you a topic that you don't know?"

                          3)
                          I'm tired of your way of hiding behind links.

                          That is, links are only possible for you?
                          Why on earth? You definitely do not pull on Jupiter. At best, on his opponent. But his rights are thinner ...

                          4)
                          Yes, that's what I call industrialization

                          If what is happening in Russia is industrialization, then I am the Pope.

                          5)
                          The system of subsidizing the outskirts at the expense of Russia was built back in the Soviet Union, this is how the economy was built, it cannot be changed overnight.

                          The most popular "technique" for justifying one's own failures is to blame predecessors. Hey! The USSR died 30 years ago. But at one time in the USSR, real industrialization was carried out in half this time, in incomparably worse conditions.

                          6)
                          Who is to blame for the stupidity of the "former" owner?

                          The "former" are far away. The last 20 years and the present, something has depended on. They chose, as usual, of all the bad options to choose the worst ...

                          7)
                          Thank you, glanced over, it doesn't deserve more. A stupid person who calls himself an economist predicts our inevitable collapse. A year has passed since then ... Which of his predictions came true?

                          8) If you didn’t "run your eyes", but read carefully, you would not ask me this question.
                          Judging by your link (if this is not a joke of humor), do you take information from any dilettante seriously if it warms your soul?

                          9) So that you do not climb the links:
                          Timur Nigmatullin, analyst at Otkritie Broker:

                          We see that demand is growing, that there is a shortage of oil and its reserves on the market. And OPEC + has agreed on an additional cut. That is, other things being equal, one can count on an increase in oil prices, and all cartel participants will benefit from this. At the same time, individual market participants, Russia and Kazakhstan, will be able to insignificantly increase production. We are talking about volumes less than 1%. Most likely, this is a consequence of the winter season, and such fluctuations can be explained by this factor. Perhaps these were some kind of principled positions of the two countries. Even if explained by seasonality, this can be done, because production will grow by a vanishingly small amount. In general, for Russia, the reduction in OPEC + production is a significant negative factor that affects the entire macroeconomy. Despite the fact that oil is expensive, production is low, the ruble is weak and the economy is growing more slowly than it could. Reducing production for Russia is very costly.
                        22. 123
                          123
                          +2
                          7 January 2021 00: 16
                          "you are not trying" to deal with Russian problems. And under any sauce you are trying to dodge it. And the answer lies on the surface - the Russian leadership is not acting in the interests of the country. And it doesn't matter - deliberately or (and) out of a fool, the result is sad.

                          You are trying to pull arguments to the required conclusion. They are erroneous and have no real basis. Try the same technique to apply to Canada and the United States (you are giving up on this for the third time). So why do they evolve differently? Is the Canadian government not acting in Canada's best interests? In the EU you adore, Germany is the backbone, and there industrial production has been declining for a long time, and the economic growth rate is lower than ours. I guess it's not worth mentioning about Ukraine laughing

                          Would you like me to discuss a topic with you that you do not know?

                          Really? belay And what is this topic?

                          That is, links are only possible for you?

                          There is a difference. I state my point of view, in support of this I provide a link with data or more detailed information on this topic. You just insert the link, while neither your point of view is clear, nor should you pay attention to this link.

                          Judging by your link (if this is not a joke of humor), do you take information from any dilettante seriously if it warms your soul?

                          Try to refute the conclusions of this "dilettante" with numbers in hand. laughing You can do it directly on his channel winked

                          If what is happening in Russia is industrialization, then I am the Pope.

                          So that's what Pope Francis are you laughing Naturally, you have no other arguments request

                          The most popular "technique" for justifying one's own failures is to blame predecessors. Hey! The USSR died 30 years ago.
                          But at one time in the USSR, real industrialization was carried out in half this time, in incomparably worse conditions.

                          Why moaning? belay Each era has its pros and cons. To deny that the economy and cooperative ties in the post-Soviet space were laid down in Soviet times is simply stupid. The economy cannot be rebuilt so quickly. By the way, the tradition of pulling the pipe to Europe also appeared under the USSR and there are a lot of parallels, the same sanctions and so on.
                          What is real industrialization and not real? Do you want Komsomol construction projects and prisoners with kyle?

                          Timur Nigmatullin, analyst at Otkritie Broker:

                          Just great good Pay attention to the bold.

                          We see that demand is growing, that there is a shortage of oil and its reserves on the market. A OPEC + agreed to further cut... That is, other things being equal, one can count on an increase in oil prices, and all cartel members will benefit from this... At the same time, certain market participants, Russia and Kazakhstan will be able to insignificantly increase production... We are talking about volumes less than 1%.

                          It turns out that the parties to the transaction agreed to cut production, in which Russia and Kazakhstan can significantly increase production. Watch the video above again for what it says about the "voluntary" production cut by the Saudis.
                          If some of the participants increase production, while others are forced to reduce it, it is rather strange to conclude that the deal is beneficial to everyone. This means that the Saudis were "bent" and they simply have nowhere to go.
                        23. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -3
                          7 January 2021 00: 55
                          1)
                          You are trying to pull arguments to the required conclusion. They are wrong and have no real basis.

                          I have much more reason to believe that my point of view is the only correct one, since it is adhered to by all, without exception, professionals and specialists in this field. I do not see the slightest reason for doubting my correctness.

                          2)
                          what is this topic?

                          Any of those that I tried to discuss with you.

                          3)
                          I state my point of view, in support of this I provide a link with data or more detailed information on this topic. You just insert the link, while neither your point of view is clear, nor should you pay attention to this link.

                          This is not true. Example: Since the 90s, you opposed my link on the export of hydrocarbons from the Russian Federation to yours, with information only for the last two years and tried to draw conclusions based on it.

                          4)
                          Naturally, you have no other arguments

                          There is. Compare INDUSTRIALIZATION in the USSR in the first half of the 20th century with "your" Didn't notice the difference?

                          5)
                          The economy cannot be rebuilt so quickly.

                          As it turned out, in fifteen years practically from scratch it is possible, but in thirty, having the untouched potential of a world power, in peacetime, with a fabulous conjuncture, it turns out only to plunder and destroy?

                          6) Are "insignificant" and "essential" synonyms for you?
                        24. 123
                          123
                          +1
                          7 January 2021 01: 12
                          I have much more reason to believe that my point of view is the only correct one, since it is adhered to by all, without exception, professionals and specialists in this field.

                          Do you naturally consider specialists only people who share your point of view? smile Can you learn from the surname?

                          I do not see the slightest reason for doubting my correctness.

                          ABOUT!!! This is a brilliant argument. laughing And what others will be? smile

                          This is not true. Example: Since the 90s, you opposed my link on the export of hydrocarbons from the Russian Federation to yours, with information only for the last two years and tried to draw conclusions based on it.

                          Do you need information for 20 years? Over 30? Over 40? The volume of production and sale of hydrocarbons is not a secret. Can't you do it yourself? Suppose I find it for you. How does this confirm your version that this money was wasted and stolen?

                          There is. Compare INDUSTRIALIZATION in the USSR in the first half of the 20th century with "your" Didn't notice the difference?

                          Why, there is a difference. I don't understand why you think that one is real and this one is not.

                          As it turned out, in fifteen years practically from scratch it is possible, but in thirty, having the untouched potential of a world power, in peacetime, with a fabulous conjuncture, it turns out only to plunder and destroy?

                          Regarding "from scratch" and "untouched potential of a world power," I would not agree. In numbers? And then I have Russia in the 90s weakly associated with untouched potential.

                          Are "insignificant" and "essential" synonymous for you?

                          Sorry, I made a reservation. hi Do you have any other objections on this issue? The Saudis were just "bent", yours ... what is it .... which the economist seems to be a complete nonsense. Do you consider him a professional too?
                        25. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -2
                          7 January 2021 10: 54
                          1)
                          Can you learn from the surname?

                          I have mentioned at least three above. Against your zero, more than enough.

                          2)
                          ABOUT!!! This is a brilliant argument laughing And what others will be?

                          Regarding yours, this will be enough.

                          3)
                          Do you need information for 20 years?

                          I don't need anything from you. I have enough information for definite conclusions. Your point of view is not an argument for me,
                          Since during our communication you have absolutely successfully discredited her.

                          4)
                          I don't understand why you think that one is real and this one is not.

                          In the course of industrialization, society also undergoes some changes, its worldview changes. A positive attitude towards work, combined with a desire to use new technologies and scientific discoveries as soon as possible, also contribute to the accelerated growth of production and incomes of the population. As a result, an ever wider, ultimately, global market for products and services of all kinds is formed, which in turn stimulates investment and further economic growth.

                          And where is all this in the Russian Federation?

                          5)
                          Regarding "from scratch" and "untouched potential of a world power," I would not agree. In numbers?

                          What, on a large scale, was plundered and destroyed at the beginning of 1992?
                          Everything that was on the territory of the RSFSR went to the current team of "reformers" in its original form.

                          6)
                          Starting in January, the OPEC + alliance will increase production by 500 thousand barrels per day, and then will revise the volume every month - this decision was made by the ministers of two dozen oil countries, led by Saudi Arabia and the Russian Federation.
                          The quotas of each participant in the transaction will remain the same - Russia will be able to increase supplies by 125 thousand barrels per day, said the head of the Ministry of Energy Alexander Novak.
                          Global demand for oil is now 9 million barrels a day below pre-crisis levels, he said at a press conference following the talks. Daily supplies from OPEC + almost completely compensate for this failure: the alliance pumps 7,7 million barrels per day less.
                          The original plan of the deal implied an increase in production from January by 2 million barrels per day, but such a step would be “unsafe” for the market, Novak admitted.

                          Russia is forced to coordinate its oil policy with OPEC. Russia's chance to play independently in the oil market was lost in March 2020.
                        26. 123
                          123
                          +2
                          7 January 2021 16: 27
                          I have mentioned at least three above. Against your zero, more than enough.

                          At least one at a time, I showed you that he was wrong and writes nonsense about the collusion between Russia and the Saudis. Do you think it is worth examining the rest of the "specialists" in detail? By the way, a fresh article appeared on the site, just in the subject.
                          https://topcor.ru/18104-saudovskaja-aravija-sokraschaet-dobychu-nefti-chtoby-rossija-mogla-ee-uvelichit.html

                          I suggest that you independently analyze everything and draw conclusions based on facts, and not blindly rely on the opinion of "experts".

                          Regarding yours, this will be enough.

                          Is your faith unshakable? Can't you get through with arguments and facts?

                          I don't need anything from you. I have enough information for definite conclusions. Your point of view is not an argument for me,

                          Information from the official website of Rosstat is not my personal opinion. you ignore the facts.

                          Since during our communication you have absolutely successfully discredited her.

                          From your lips sounds like praise laughing

                          In the course of industrialization, society also undergoes some changes, its worldview changes. A positive attitude towards work, combined with a desire to use new technologies and scientific discoveries as soon as possible, also contribute to the accelerated growth of production and incomes of the population. As a result, an ever wider, ultimately, global market for products and services of all kinds is formed, which in turn stimulates investment and further economic growth.

                          As I understand it, the essence of the claims to the current industrialization is the absence of "some changes in society, its perception of the world"? Your quote describes "the transition from an agricultural economy to an industrial production".

                          https://ru.quizzclub.com/trivia/kak-nazyvaetsya-perehod-ot-agrarnoj-ekonomiki-k-promyshlennomu-proizvodstvu/answer/1717581/

                          Do you think we have an agrarian economy? belay Don't you understand that the conditions are completely different?

                          Let's try to find a definition of what industrialization is. The Internet was the first to issue this:

                          Industrialization is a process of accelerated socio-economic transition from the traditional stage of development to industrial, with the predominance of industrial production in the economy. This process is associated with the development of new technologies, especially in industries such as energy and metallurgy.

                          Yes, it contains the word "social". But since at first you had complaints about the lack of new industries, and now we are moving towards the "social sphere", can you explain exactly what kind of transformations in the worldview of society do you expect? Do you want people to start having a positive attitude towards work and their incomes to increase from this? I'm afraid if you continue to "use quotations", there will be no sense. Your opinion remains "in the fog".

                          What, on a large scale, was plundered and destroyed at the beginning of 1992?
                          Everything that was on the territory of the RSFSR went to the current team of "reformers" in its original form.

                          And what was destroyed in October 1917? However, if you consider the current "team of young reformers", then it is wiser to consider the situation as of February 1917. Everything that was on the territory of the Russian Empire went to the "reformers" in their original form.

                          Russia is forced to coordinate its oil policy with OPEC. Russia's chance to play independently in the oil market was lost in March 2020.

                          What do you mean forced? belay What nonsense. Cooperation with OPEC has been going on for many years. What missed chance are you talking about? Riddles again? sad Either state your thesis clearly or you can go to great distances. fellow
                        27. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -3
                          8 January 2021 12: 19
                          1)
                          At least one at a time, I showed you that he was wrong and writes nonsense about the collusion between Russia and the Saudis.

                          You "showed" me some type without education on the topic in question, without rank and position, ie absolutely not responsible for his words.
                          How is this person able to refute the experts?

                          2)
                          I suggest you analyze everything yourself and draw conclusions based on facts.

                          In any matter, I rely on specialists, and not on all sorts of shabashniki.
                          Of course, they can also make mistakes, but, as a rule, they are much less likely to be amateurs and more often in details than in trends.
                          Personally, I'm more interested in trends.

                          3)
                          you ignore the facts

                          For example?

                          4)
                          Do you think we have an agrarian economy? belay Don't you understand that the conditions are completely different?

                          How do you link your first sentence to the second? The same France, for example, positions itself as an agrarian country. And what follows from this?

                          5)
                          But since at first you had complaints about the lack of new industries, and now we are moving towards the "social sphere", can you explain exactly what kind of transformations in the worldview of society do you expect?

                          The point is not in my "claims", but in the actual state of affairs. The "reformers" destroyed a single scientific and industrial complex, liquidated entire industries, and severed inter-farm chains. As a result, the Russian economy has turned into separate oases in the desert, breakthrough technologies have been lost, the country has slipped from a leading position into the "third world" and continues to degrade. In parallel, with the help of the media, there is a deliberate deterioration of human material, in moral and educational terms.

                          6)
                          And what was destroyed in October 1917?

                          The Russian Empire. What was left of it rotted and fell apart "thanks" to the spiritual fathers of the current government of Russia - the chicks of Kerensky's nest.
                        28. The comment was deleted.
        2. Uneven
          Uneven
          -4
          2 January 2021 10: 18
          By the way, the names of states are usually written with a capital letter.
          1. isofat
            isofat
            +1
            2 January 2021 11: 59
            Uneven, you call this miracle education a state? This is the outskirts of Russia.
            1. Uneven
              Uneven
              -5
              2 January 2021 12: 28
              In what way, apart from the scale, do you see the fundamental difference between Ukraine and the Russian Federation?
              1. isofat
                isofat
                +2
                2 January 2021 13: 23
                Uneven , on this outskirts of Russia, the state that you call Ukraine has not yet formed.
                1. Uneven
                  Uneven
                  -4
                  2 January 2021 21: 45
                  Are you saying that the Russian Federation was forced to pay tribute by someone unknown?
              2. 123
                123
                +2
                2 January 2021 13: 25
                In what way, apart from the scale, do you see the fundamental difference between Ukraine and the Russian Federation?

                The difference in subjectivity that allows Russia to develop, in the absence thereof, Ukraine lives out its age.
                1. Uneven
                  Uneven
                  -3
                  2 January 2021 21: 35
                  The difference in subjectivity that allows Russia to develop, in the absence thereof, Ukraine lives out its age.

                  1) The fact of the matter is that the Russian Federation had a cart and a small cart,
                  but everything went wrong ...
                  2) If you wish, you can easily find on the Internet, starting in 2014, a whole bunch of annual "predictions" from different kinds of "prophets" on the topic of the next "freezing" and "collapse" of Ukraine.
                  Taking into account your problems with the computer. technology, if desired, I can help in finding the appropriate material.
                  1. 123
                    123
                    +3
                    2 January 2021 22: 36
                    The fact of the matter is that Russia had a cart and a small cart for development, but everything went to no good ...

                    Another "fact"? smile Your "chants" are tiresome. Will there be anything in support of this thesis? I look forward to substantiating my wrongness with facts and comparisons. smile Tell us why Ukraine will prosper and develop, and Russia is "FSE". winked

                    If you wish, you can easily find on the Internet, starting in 2014, a whole bunch of annual "predictions" from different kinds of "prophets" on the topic of the next "freezing" and "collapse" of Ukraine.

                    I am not interested in various kinds of "predictions", there are enough similar ones on both sides, I prefer facts, analysis, conclusions. If you have something to say, you are welcome Yes

                    Taking into account your problems with the computer. technology, if desired, I can help in finding the appropriate material.

                    No, thank you laughing your "materials" before the invention of computer technology, as a rule, wrote on the fence, from where they subsequently migrated to the Internet, while not changing at all in terms of information content winked
                    1. Uneven
                      Uneven
                      -2
                      3 January 2021 12: 43
                      Will there be anything in support of this thesis?




                      Ukraine is living out its day "and" I am not interested in various kinds of "predictions

                      We conclude that these are your PERSONAL forecasts.

                      your "materials" before the invention of computer technology, as a rule, wrote on the fence

                      Are you able to prove this thesis?
                      1. 123
                        123
                        +1
                        3 January 2021 13: 02
                        What interesting graphs good Did you hear about the "oil war" and the global crisis? Congratulations.
                        How does this relate to this topic?

                        We conclude that these are your PERSONAL forecasts.

                        Rather, it is my assessment of the events taking place. A decline in the population, the collapse of the economy, an ongoing civil war. Ukraine is still living out its age.

                        Are you able to prove this thesis?

                        I am able to assess the quality of the "material" you provide sad Yes, his place is on the fence winked
                        1. Uneven
                          Uneven
                          -2
                          3 January 2021 13: 16
                          How does this relate to this topic?

                          If you wish, you can easily compare the income of the Russian Federation over the past 20 years with government spending. The difference between them would be enough (at least) for a couple of industrializations of Russia.

                          Rather, this is my assessment of the events taking place

                          Why not in Russia ?! You have not explained your disregard for Russian problems and your hypertrophied interest in Ukrainian ones. The only explanation for this phenomenon is full compliance with the provisions of the agitprop of the Russian Federation.

                          I am able to assess the quality of the "material" you provide sad Yes, he has a place on the fence

                          Such claims require proof. In the meantime, this is just a very arrogant concussion ...
                        2. 123
                          123
                          +1
                          3 January 2021 13: 53
                          If you wish, you can easily compare the income of the Russian Federation over the past 20 years with government spending. The difference between them would be enough (at least) for a couple of industrializations of Russia.

                          Quite right, the budget has been in surplus all these years, the accumulated reserves have allowed us to painlessly survive the global crisis. And don't worry about industrialization, more than 300 production facilities have been opened in Russia over the course of a year. Almost every day a new plant, factory, workshop opens. And so for 5 years ...

                          Why not in Russia ?! You have not explained your disregard for Russian problems and your hypertrophied interest in Ukrainian ones. The only explanation for this phenomenon is full compliance with the provisions of the agitprop of the Russian Federation.

                          Why is the neglect belay There really are problems, where without them. And who doesn't have them? To understand their "depth" it is useful to compare with someone. Why not with Ukraine? Neighbors all the same .. Especially since you yourself began to tell how Russia was forced to sign a transit agreement with Ukraine for 5 years ... So we look at who gets what as a result.

                          Such claims require proof. In the meantime, this is just a very arrogant concussion ...

                          Evidence? belay Yes please Yes you just stated that pumping over 2% through SP-50 is impossible. I gave you an example of a contract with the Austrians that refutes this thesis. Yes, Yes your "materials" place on the fence. winked
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. isofat
                isofat
                +1
                2 January 2021 22: 17
                Quote: Uneven
                Are you saying that the Russian Federation was forced to pay tribute by someone unknown?

                Unevensmile
                On the outskirts of Russia, which you call Ukraine (this is your language), the state has not yet taken shape. And what you tried to do fell apart, is falling apart, and there is no end in sight to the civil war.

                PS I understand your pain if you consider Ukraine your homeland. But you yourself ruined your homeland when you removed the Russian language. That is the only thing that united people living in Ukraine.

                The USA, for example, did not have their own language, but this did not prevent them from building a state for themselves. They took the language from the British, and all the cases. Yes
                1. Uneven
                  Uneven
                  -4
                  3 January 2021 12: 14
                  You give a link to my question, but in response you quote the agitprop cheat sheet of the Russian Federation absolutely off topic.
                  I remind my question:

                  Are you saying that the Russian Federation was forced to pay tribute by someone unknown?

                  Based on this, I conclude that you agree that Russia has become so degraded that it is forced to pay tribute to the "failed", "collapsed", "ragged" is not known for what.
                  1. isofat
                    isofat
                    0
                    3 January 2021 13: 10
                    Uneven, please read my answer to your question again. Have you stopped understanding Russian? There will be no other answer to your question.
                    1. Uneven
                      Uneven
                      -3
                      3 January 2021 13: 22
                      Your answer is not satisfactory. Resit.
                      But first, practice answering exactly the question that is being asked to you, and not fantasizing on abstract topics.
                      1. isofat
                        isofat
                        0
                        3 January 2021 13: 45
                        Uneven... I am glad that you did not like my answer. hi