Russia risks dropping out of the superpower space race


While the head of Roscosmos, Dmitry Rogozin, curses joyfully from the realization that something else is flying in his economy, China is preparing to share the Moon, Mars and the resources of the asteroid belt with the United States. How did it happen that the PRC has become a great space power, whose achievements cannot but cause a feeling of jealousy in Russians?


A certain irritation from the Chinese successes is caused by the fact that Beijing has learned everything from us. Cooperation with the USSR in the field of rocketry began back in 1956, but in the 60s it was curtailed for political reasons. In 1970, the Long March-1 launch vehicle launched the first Chinese satellite into orbit. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the PRC began an in-depth study and borrowing of our developments on the basis of intergovernmental agreements of 1992 and 1996. Chinese cosmonauts trained in Russia, and their first manned spacecraft, Shenzhou (Shenzhou), painfully resembled the Soyuz. The result was in 2003 the flight into space of the "Chinese Gagarin" Yan Liwei.

It is quite significant that Beijing did not take part in the ISS project, unlike Moscow. Instead, the PRC continued to copy the Soviet Technologyby launching their own orbital stations Tiangong (Tiangong) and Tiangong-2, suspiciously reminiscent of our Salyut and Almaz. So the Celestial Empire became one of the three countries capable of independently launching spacecraft intended for long-term stay of astronauts in orbit. It is quite indicative that the Russian leadership at the same time preferred to get rid of its Mir station, although this decision to this day causes an ambiguous attitude towards itself.

The next step of the PRC was its own lunar program. The Chinese repeated the experience of the USSR, sending several devices to the surface of the satellite, successfully taking and delivering samples of lunar soil to Earth, but were able to go further. The Chang'e-4 mission continues on the far side of the Moon, which no other country, not even the United States, has yet been able to do. Beijing does not hide the fact that the study of the soil is necessary for the future construction of a permanent lunar base, which means a manned flight, which for certain reasons could not be carried out by the Soviet Union at one time.

The development of an earth satellite will take place in several stages, and it should become an intermediate link on the way to Mars and the tempting resources of the asteroid belt. To accomplish such ambitious tasks, China will need its own super-heavy rocket, work on which is already underway. It is called "Changzheng-9" (CZ-9, "Long March-9") and will be able to launch into low-earth orbit up to 140 tons, up to 50 tons on a departure trajectory to the Moon and up to 44 tons - to Mars. The creation of such a giant is a very difficult technological task.

The fact is that the dimensions of the upper stage diameter are limited by the railway dimensions, since the missiles must be transported somehow from the place of production to the launch pad. By the way, dependence on logistics is also a problem for our country. The Chinese approached the solution of the problem radically, abandoning rail transport in favor of sea transport. From the mainland of the country, the cosmodrome was moved to the island of Hainan. But the achievements of the Chinese are not limited to this. They were able to rethink the experience of Soviet engineers and create their own kerosene-oxygen rocket engines with a thrust of over 500 tons and 150-ton solid-fuel boosters. For "Changzheng-9" new hydrogen engines with a thrust of 200 tons are being developed, which were tentatively named YF-220.

There is every reason to believe that China's super-heavy rocket will fly by 2030, damn it. It will allow in one fell swoop to solve all the tasks of delivering a manned lunar mission. Our Angara-A5, like Changzheng-5, is theoretically capable of this only by coordinating several launches, which is very expensive, time-consuming and difficult. Beijing also has another option with the simultaneous use of two missiles at once, one of which will deliver the crew to the lunar orbit, the second - the landing module. By the way, "Chang'e-5" suspiciously reminded specialists of the lunar lander.

But nothing will end there. The Chinese research station Tianwen 1 is already on its way to Mars. In a few months, it should deliver to the Red Planet an analogue of the American rover Opportunity, which will study the atmosphere, soil and magnetic field, as well as an orbital probe, which will transmit data on the state of the Mars space to Beijing. It will be unpleasant to remember that the Russian probe Phobos-Grunt, which was supposed to deliver the Chinese microsatellite Inkho-1 to Mars, in 2011 could not fly away from the Earth and burned up in the dense layers of the atmosphere.

Let's be realistic: the Moon, Mars, asteroids and deep space will be divided between only two technological superpowers - the United States and China, which almost completely parasitizes on our developments. If in the next few years nothing changes for the better in Russia, Russian cosmonautics will only continue to regress under the "curse". And, perhaps, it is worth considering why such a thing became possible at all.
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  1. 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 22 December 2020 14: 27
    +3
    While the head of Roscosmos, Dmitry Rogozin, curses joyfully from the realization that something else is flying in his economy, China is preparing to share the Moon, Mars and the resources of the asteroid belt with the United States. How did it happen that the PRC has become a great space power, whose achievements cannot but cause a feeling of jealousy in Russians?

    From what Rogozin "swears" is your idle speculation.
    I personally do not feel any jealousy of the Chinese and I suppose I am not alone in this. What are you trying to say, whoever does not envy the Chinese is not a Russian? Why do you have so much audacity to decide for everyone? How far away you are from the people.

    It is quite significant that Beijing did not take part in the ISS project, unlike Moscow.

    How significant yes If one of the "partners", by the way, mainly financing the station, is against China's entry into the project, then it is somewhat difficult for Beijing to participate. laughing

    In the 90s of the last century, the United States blocked China's participation in the ISS project.

    https://iz.ru/news/580265

    It is quite indicative that the Russian leadership at the same time preferred to get rid of its Mir station, although this decision to this day causes an ambiguous attitude towards itself.

    What does ambiguous mean? The station's resource was coming to an end, there was no money for its maintenance.

    In general, judging by the text, the Chinese will do something fellow , the Chinese will do it fellow

    Let's be realistic: the Moon, Mars, asteroids and deep space will be divided between only two technological superpowers - the United States and China, which almost completely parasitizes on our developments.

    Let's be realistic, no one will share anything in space.
    If something does not change for the better in Russian journalism, it will simply die out. Maybe you should think about how you got to this kind of analysts?
    1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
      Kristallovich (Ruslan) 22 December 2020 14: 32
      0
      It is foolish to argue with the fact that Russian space has lagged behind the US and is beginning to lag behind the Chinese. And the point here is not only in the chronic underfunding and the scientific hole of the 90s, which reached us after 20 years. Considering how many scandals there have been in the ranks of Roskosmos over the past 10 years, the managerial level in the state corporation also raises questions.
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 22 December 2020 14: 42
        +3
        And the article discusses the development of astronautics? There space is divided, which is typical without us laughing As for the "pit", no one denies the negative impact of the 90s, but isn't the industry recovering? Yes, slowly, with a creak, with a swing, but there is movement forward. The management of the state corporation is not my friends or relatives, and I do not feel much sympathy for them, but ... the same Rogozin has not been there for 10 years, but only 2. The hangara still flew with him. And the shading to it basically ... "either cursed" wrong, then joked with a trampoline, somewhere at this level.
        1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
          Kristallovich (Ruslan) 22 December 2020 15: 16
          +2
          but isn't the industry recovering?

          Not restored. We continue to fly ships that are 60 years old (oh yes, they are modernized ...), with rockets of about the same age. We have been making "Eagle" (aka "Federation") for more than 10 years, and it is not even in the hardware yet. We are proud of "Angara", although technologically this is the last century. Launched the second medium in 6 years. Pride takes! This rocket could have been bragged 20 years ago, but not today. For 15 years, Musk has created a technologically breakthrough company, developed new launch vehicles with reversible stages, designed a modern spacecraft, designs another one for flights to Mars, and began implementing a satellite Internet project. For 15 years we have done absolutely nothing. This is an objective reality. The question was about technological development, and here, whatever one may say, we are lagging behind. Moreover, if we take Russian space as a whole and compare it in general with the American space, then we are lagging behind very much. Indeed, in addition to SpaceX, the United States also has Blue Origin, Virgin Orbit and Rocket Lab, which are developing a number of promising technologies. We have nothing like this and not close. And this is not the case when analogs can be made in a year or two. Space is years and decades. It is very difficult, time consuming and expensive.
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) 22 December 2020 16: 50
            +5
            The question was about technological development, and here, whatever one may say, we are lagging behind. Moreover, if we take the Russian space as a whole and compare it in general with the American space, then we are very far behind. Indeed, in addition to SpaceX, the United States also has Blue Origin, Virgin Orbit and Rocket Lab, which are developing a number of promising technologies. We have nothing like this and not close

            Here side by side on the website of the TTX Vanguard was published. And on the other side of the Atlantic, Minutemans from the 70s are in the mines. And no replacement is expected, under the contract they promise to create it in 2030. If we take everything as a whole, then forgive them, as to Beijing "sideways". For that matter, the Vanguard is more important in the mine than it is in orbit. Let the Americans, instead of Tesla, even launch Caterpillars into space, and on every Chinese windowsill, seedlings grow near the lunar soil.
            Speaking of promising projects ... does the abandoned project at (6:30) remind you of anything?



            So these "leaders" did not master the project and abandoned it 15 years ago, but ours are doing it on the sly. And these are not the cases when analogs can be made in a year or two.
            Our priority is the military direction, and this is probably correct. As for the civilian complex, of course there is a lag, but it is not so critical. But in our country, 1991 was the year with all the consequences, and what happened to them? The lunar program "beauty and pride" of cosmonautics has been procrastinating for 15 years and there is no end in sight of the work.
            As for all SpaceX, Blue Origin, Virgin Orbit and Rocket Lab, take it, who is against? Whose claim is this? Is it addressed to our "bourgeois" or do you want the state to reform the industry and produce private traders?
            1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
              Kristallovich (Ruslan) 22 December 2020 18: 45
              -1
              Here side by side on the website of the TTX Vanguard was published.

              And next to it, KAMAZ is testing a new engine. And they also opened a poultry farm near Rostov ... Oh, and we talked about space, right?

              For that matter, the Vanguard is more important in the mine than it is in orbit.

              Exactly. And more important than medicine, education, infrastructure development ... The main thing is that Avangard is in the mine. You know, when a person runs out of arguments on a topic, he begins to weave absolutely third-party things, they say, it will be counted.

              Speaking of promising projects ... does the abandoned project at (6:30) remind you of anything?

              Did we have something flying on an ion engine? Did I miss something?

              So these "leaders" did not master the project and abandoned 15 years ago

              Suddenly: https://www.popmech.ru/technologies/news-392212-nasa-ispytalo-rekordnyy-ionnyy-dvigatel/

              And you can find a bunch of news from the USA on this topic yourself.

              As for all SpaceX, Blue Origin, Virgin Orbit and Rocket Lab, take it, who is against?

              And we have Roskosmos, which will not tolerate competition. Along the way, you do not quite understand what a state corporation is in Russia. Nobody wants to share the budget. And for whom to create all this? There is no market. Nobody needs it with us.
              1. 123 Offline 123
                123 (123) 22 December 2020 20: 25
                +3
                And next to it, KAMAZ is testing a new engine. And they also opened a poultry farm near Rostov ... Oh, and we talked about space, right?

                Roscosmos has nothing to do with the noble cause of incubating chickens, but it is the most direct thing to military missiles and military space in general, however, like most of the American companies you listed. I'm not food for you about hyperloops. After all, we also talked about the technological lag. Russia has focused on the military direction because the financial capabilities are not comparable. The Americans are ahead in the civilian sector, while in the military sphere everything is not so smooth for them.

                Exactly. And more important than medicine, education, infrastructure development ... The main thing is that Avangard is in the mine. You know, when a person runs out of arguments on a topic, he begins to weave absolutely third-party things, they say, it will be counted.

                Just don't knock out a tear with pacifism and start a conversation about distributing money to pregnant pensioners, you won't like it laughing
                What is the vaunted American medicine, sharpened to make money and not to provide medical care to the bulk of the population, is clearly traced in the statistics of deaths from coronavirus. Is it more important for them to fly to the moon than to make a vaccine?
                You know, American schools are also not a standard, but they pay educational loans before retirement. Here is the title of the publication of the country "a space power like the United States", at least according to its president laughing

                The legendary American roads are already a myth, or How the infrastructure in the United States is declining. https://vk.cc/bWnf69

                Such information can be typed in a wagon and a small cart. Maybe they should cut the military budget a little?
                And we need the "Vanguards" otherwise instead of schools, hospitals, there will be craters on the roads, don't believe me, ask the Libyans, Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians.

                Did we have something flying on an ion engine? Did I miss something?

                And I wrote that it flew? belay In my opinion, I wrote engaged. So they do not walk on the moon, the example you cited with the Martian ship and so on is also not observed live request which does not prevent you from extolling out of merit.

                Suddenly:

                Not impressive No. Is this engine already flying? Do you like the implemented projects or am I wrong?

                There are a lot of similar "suddenly" and "voila" in the open spaces of the boarding school. Here's a tugboat news from two years ago. In my opinion, the news is no worse than about the testing of the American ion engine.

                In 2018, the first tests of the nuclear editor have already passed for its subsequent use for these purposes.

                https://w-elma.com/company/articles/buksir-v-nevesomost/

                And we have Roskosmos, which will not tolerate competition. Along the way, you do not quite understand what a state corporation is in Russia. Nobody wants to share the budget. And for whom to create all this? There is no market. Nobody needs it with us.

                How is it? Should you share your budget with them? But what about the disinterested desire for space exploration? Do we know the financial possibilities for a more modest one, so that they can also be distributed to these parasites. How effectively they are used can be seen on the example of countries with comparable GDP, for example Germany, which for 75 years, under the strict leadership, for some reason has not turned into an advanced space power.
                By the way, is it necessary to create a space services market for private traders? I'm afraid such ideas will not be popular with the overwhelming majority of our population.
                1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
                  Kristallovich (Ruslan) 22 December 2020 20: 41
                  -1
                  Roscosmos has nothing to do with the noble cause of incubating chickens

                  Here I agree with you. Tooting. But I will add that our article is about peaceful space, and the conversation was about it. The Americans also have space defense projects, and they are also not weak. What only X-37 is doing there is unknown. But once again - we are not talking about this.

                  What is vaunted American medicine ... [...] The legendary American roads ...

                  And then Ostap suffered ... I say, when a person runs out of arguments on a topic, he tries in every possible way to change it. I'm not going to comment on this. This is not in dispute.

                  In my opinion, I wrote engaged.

                  Yes. But you also wrote that the West has abandoned such projects. Wrote without checking. Lied, in short. And now the silence has been caught.

                  for example, Germany, which for 75 years, under the strict leadership, for some reason has not turned into an advanced space power.

                  In Germany, such goals have never been set.

                  How is it? Should you share the budget with them? But what about the disinterested desire for space exploration?

                  Private space in the United States, among other things, makes money on government contracts. Those. once invested, created something, and now they make money on it. Everything is fair and legal. And we have a state monopolist.
                  1. 123 Offline 123
                    123 (123) 22 December 2020 21: 16
                    +4
                    Here I agree with you. Tooting. But I will add that our article is about peaceful space, and the conversation was about it. The Americans also have space defense projects, and they are also not weak. What only X-37 is doing there is unknown. But once again - we are not talking about this.

                    Quite right, about peaceful space, however, the line is so thin ... But we also talked about the technological lag. Forgive me, but to call an organization ahead of competitors in the military sphere, just because it is inferior in the civil sphere, is somewhat incorrect. In this case, we can speak either about insufficient funding, or about the fact that less attention is paid to this area, the priority is lower.

                    And then Ostap suffered ... I say, when a person runs out of arguments on a topic, he tries in every possible way to change it. I'm not going to comment on this. This is not in dispute.

                    I told you you won't like it laughing As for the ended arguments, the reproach was not addressed, as far as I remember, it was not me who raised the topic hi

                    Yes. But you also wrote that the West has abandoned such projects. Wrote without checking.

                    This information is announced in the attached video. And yet, yes, I have not tested it. That the information is not correct and in the bowels of the American corporation the project is nearing completion? Share information, it will be interesting to listen good

                    Lied, in short.

                    In what? belay

                    And now the silence has been caught.

                    What do you mean caught silent? Half an hour passed. You will probably be surprised, but sometimes I move away from the computer, besides, I am "tightly covered" by your volunteer assistant and great friend of Americans, Kirill. laughing In general, I'm sorry I didn't answer instantly hi
      2. Brancodd Offline Brancodd
        Brancodd 22 December 2020 20: 02
        +4
        In 2017, funding for the federal space program was cut by Medvedev 2 times.
        The budget of Roscosmos is $ 3 billion.
        In 2017, NASA expenditures amounted to $ 18,1 billion. Total US budget expenditures amounted to $ 47,5 billion. That is 13 times more than Russia’s expenses.
        EKA European Space Agency has a budget of $ 11.6 billion, 4 times the budget of Roscosmos.
        Statistics for 2019
        In 2019, EKA completed 9 starts, including 1 emergency.
        Roscosmos -25 (all trouble-free).
        The United States has 21.
        China - 34 (2 emergency).
        Such is the efficiency in comparison.
        Today, the period without emergency launches of Roscosmos is 2 years and 2 months. Total - 52. This is a record for the entire post-Soviet period.
        1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
          Kristallovich (Ruslan) 22 December 2020 20: 08
          -2
          You have not read my messages carefully. In the first of them, I pointed out the chronic underfunding of domestic space. And that's not really the point. The conversation was that we are lagging behind. For what reasons is the next question.
    2. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 22 December 2020 15: 26
      -5
      I personally do not feel any jealousy of the Chinese and I suppose I am not alone in this. What are you trying to say, whoever does not envy the Chinese is not a Russian? Why do you get so much impudence decide for everyone?

      It's funny to read this from you, when in one of our skirmishes you attributed to ALL British and Russians a dislike for von Braun and other former Nazi engineers and scientists :)

      Let's be realistic, no one will share anything in space.

      What is this statement based on?
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 22 December 2020 16: 58
        +5
        It's funny to read this from you, when in one of our skirmishes you attributed to ALL British and Russians a dislike for von Braun and other former Nazi engineers and scientists :)

        Do not distort No.
        I recommend refreshing your memory, as recently as yesterday, some people attributed to the Russians immense admiration for American successes and, incidentally, the unforgettable von Braun too. Not good No. , a person's lies do not paint. negative

        What is this statement based on?

        Yes, at least on this



        If it comes to a carve-up, then it will take place here on Earth and arguments like Vanguard and Zircon in such disputes are much more valuable than cars dangling in space.
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) 22 December 2020 19: 17
          -4
          Do not distort

          What's the jitter?)

          S. Marzhetsky generalized the jealousy of the Chinese to all Russians, you generalized the dislike of von Braun and other German scientists and engineers to all the inhabitants of London, as well as to the people who caught Gagarin's flight :)

          and those who caught, there is a specific attitude towards “former SS men” like Werner von Braun. Emotions for such personalities are accepted by them express with a bayonet or butt. I'm even afraid to imagine how happy the successes of the former "NSDAP member" were Londoners... They were not familiar with his products by hearsay.

          In both cases, unreasonable generalization and ascribing to strangers their own emotions.

          I recommend refreshing your memory, as recently as yesterday someone attributed Russian immense admiration for American successes and, incidentally, the unforgettable von Braun too.

          Let's refresh your memory, I agree :) I quote myself:

          Those who rejoice at every SpaceX launch are just as rejoicing and rejoicing at the launch of Gagarin on a modified military rocket, the main task of which (the basic version) is to erase cities into dust. Likewise, they rejoiced and rejoiced in the launches of American astronauts to the moon on a rocket designed by former SS and NSDAP member Wernher von Braun.

          In my quote, the word "Russian" is never used :) And just ascribing to me what I did not say - this is:

          a person's lies do not paint

          We go further:

          Yes, at least on this

          On what "on this"? In Peskov's words that "from a legal point of view, such attempts to privatize space are unacceptable"?

          You yourself, on every corner, say that Americans easily violate all legal norms when it suits them :)

          If it comes to a carve-up, then it will take place here on Earth and arguments like Vanguard and Zircon in such disputes are much more valuable than cars dangling in space.

          Your Vanguards (which one or two have been used up) and Zircons (which are not yet in service at all) do not matter in the matter of the division of space resources, as long as you do not have what to extract and transport these resources.

          And yes, in addition to "cars dangling in space", the United States (and China, too, if anything) has something to answer to "Vanguards" and "Zircons".
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) 22 December 2020 20: 56
            +5
            What's the jitter?)

            S. Marzhetsky generalized the jealousy of the Chinese to all Russians, you generalized the dislike of von Braun and other German scientists and engineers to all the inhabitants of London, as well as to the people who caught Gagarin's flight :)

            It's elementary, even now you are talking about the Chinese, the British and the Germans, and you quote me in confirmation. But there is a little petty, unpleasant detail ... the quote is not complete ... If you reread this sentence here in an unabridged form ...

            and those who did find it had a specific attitude to "former SS men" like Wernher von Braun. It is customary for them to express emotions towards such persons with a bayonet or a butt.

            It talks about the Russian people who caught Gagarin, that is, people who went through the war. so twice yes. Yes, the attitude of the Russian people towards such personalities was specific, exactly as I described, and they were not delighted with von Braun's success. And secondly, yes, you still juggle and juggle negative

            In my quote, the word "Russian" is never used :) And just ascribing to me what I did not say - this is:

            ABOUT!!! You meant someone else ... However, do not drag the discussion here on another article, do not litter comments. There is a shading on this issue, squeak under the "primary source".

            On what "on this"? In Peskov's words that "from a legal point of view, such attempts to privatize space are unacceptable"?
            You yourself, on every corner, say that Americans easily violate all legal norms when it suits them :)

            What does "verb at every corner" mean belay Do you want to say that it is not so?
            That is why the Vanguards are needed.

            Yours The vanguards (of which one or two have been missed) and Zircons (which are not yet in service at all) do not matter in the matter of the division of space resources, as long as you do not have what to extract and transport these resources with.

            Oh how !!! Your very similar to the words of the American lackey. wink An ordinary person would write ours. Piercing? After such a "resident's mistake," it becomes clear who you meant when you spoke of enthusiasm for von Braun's successes.winked Somehow you are not careful, now you can't cut it out with an ax request And what do you think matters in this case? The ability to send an automatic device to an asteroid, stick a flag and declare it yours? Remember how you worried about our flag at the bottom near the North Pole?
            In general, all disagreements will be resolved here on Earth, unless, of course, they plan to dump from this planet laughing
            No matter how vanguards there are, they are all ours, and Zircons fly and every day there are more and more of them. Your we can only dream about it and bite our elbows. This is a gift for you, look before going to bed, nibble your elbow to calm down smile



            And yes, in addition to "cars dangling in space", the United States (and China, too, if anything) has something to answer to "Vanguards" and "Zircons".

            As long as there is, only every day it is getting smaller, you know it is getting old and the technological gap is increasing. And we'll come to an agreement with the Chinese. That they are going to something in space, in my opinion, only you and Marzhetsky think hi
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) 22 December 2020 21: 35
              -2
              It's elementary, even now you are talking about the Chinese, the British and the Germans, and you quote me in confirmation.

              Amendment - Mr. Marzhetsky is talking about the Chinese, and you are talking about the British and Germans :)

              In my quote I have never mentioned either the Russians or any other nation. If you had read my comments carefully, you would have seen what I said about "those who enjoy SpaceX launches." I singled out a category not according to nationality, but according to the interest of these people in astronautics and the progress of mankind in this direction.

              the quote is not complete ...

              Do you even really know how to read?) I gave your quote even in a fuller form than you yourself :) Here it is:

              Those who rejoice in "every SpaceX launch" did not find Gagarin alive, and those who did, have a specific attitude towards "former SS men" like Wernher von Braun. It is customary for them to express emotions towards such persons with a bayonet or a butt. I’m even afraid to imagine how the residents of London were happy with the successes of the former "NSDAP member". They were not familiar with his products by hearsay.

              Not a word about Russians in this quote of yours :)

              Yes, the attitude of the Russian people towards such personalities was specific, exactly as I described, and they were not delighted with von Braun's success.

              Have you interviewed all the millions of Soviet / Russian people to assert this?)

              And I have already given you in another thread specific examples of how the USSR awarded the highest state awards to German scientists who, before they were taken to the USSR, worked on Hitler's atomic and rocket projects. Among these scientists there were even those who were members of the NSDAP - moreover, of their own free will.

              As a result, all your naive generalizations are broken on hard facts.

              ABOUT!!! You meant someone else ...

              I meant those whom I called in plain text - I do not have your habit of writing one thing and thinking another. More precisely, your habit first to write, and then try to dodge, inventing some implicit interpretations of your own words :)

              "There is a shade on this issue, squeak under the" primary source "."

              So it has long been placed under the "primary source" :) You either have not seen, or do not want to see - as always :)

              What does "verb at every corner" mean

              That means :)

              Do you want to say that it is not so?

              Maybe so - but this does not negate the fact that you speak about it at every corner :) Although all countries do this, without exception :)

              Oh how !!! YOUR is very similar to the words of the American lackey. wink An ordinary person would write our

              "Yours" - because it is you who are waving these "Vanguards" and "Zircons", although this is generally a different area :)

              And what do you think matters in this case? The ability to send an automatic device to an asteroid, stick a flag and declare it yours?

              The ability to have the technical means for mastering these very asteroids and other celestial bodies. The Americans and Chinese are working in this direction and have achieved much more success than Russia.

              This is a gift for you, look before going to bed, nibble your elbow to calm down

              Unlike you, I am indifferent to "Vanguards" and "Zircons". And you plug up the gaps in your "argumentation" with them wherever possible :) You were correctly pointed out above :)

              As long as there is, only every day it is getting smaller, you know it is getting old and the technological gap is increasing.

              This "less and less" and "technological lag" is more than enough to turn Russia into ashes. However, like the Russian nuclear weapons, it will be enough to do the same with the United States.

              And we'll come to an agreement with the Chinese.

              Only parties equal in capabilities are negotiated. The unequal either subdue or obey.
              1. 123 Offline 123
                123 (123) 22 December 2020 21: 57
                +3
                Amendment - Mr. Marzhetsky is talking about the Chinese, and you are talking about the British and Germans :)

                Really? belay And what wretched boy wrote this on your behalf?

                S. Marzhetsky generalized jealousy for the Chinese in all Russians, you generalized the dislike for von Braun and others German scientists and engineers at all Londoners, as well as people who caught Gagarin's flight :)

                I hope you don't consider the people of London Mongols?

                In my quote I have never mentioned either the Russians or any other nation. If you had read my comments carefully, you would have seen what I said about "those who enjoy SpaceX launches." I singled out a category not according to nationality, but according to the interest of these people in astronautics and the progress of mankind in this direction.

                Of course of course yes There was some misunderstanding. After the words

                your vanguards

                - everything fell into place laughing Now it's much clearer who did you mean winked

                "Yours" - because it is you who are waving these "Vanguards" and "Zircons", although this is generally a different area :)

                Well, in general, you do not wave, but wave, but this is so ... Something I am skeptical about such an explanation, not convincing No.

                The ability to have the technical means for mastering these very asteroids and other celestial bodies. The Americans and Chinese are working in this direction and have achieved much more success than Russia.

                Well, and the flag in their hands. Will they leave garrisons on every asteroid?
                In addition, there is a likelihood of deterioration in US-China relations. Perhaps they will not be up to the division of asteroids. Look at your leisure, the information is interesting.



                Unlike you, I am indifferent to "Vanguards" and "Zircons". And you plug up the gaps in your "argumentation" with them wherever possible :) You were correctly pointed out above :)

                But do not breathe evenly to the products of one overseas company. I don’t know what you see as "stopping", in this case the Vanguards are quite appropriate, it was a question of a technological lag, a corporation that makes such products can hardly be called backward.
                If anything, read my later comments, there is everything about it.

                This "less and less" and "technological lag" is more than enough to turn Russia into ashes. However, like the Russian nuclear weapons, it will be enough to do the same with the United States.

                This is the meaning of nuclear deterrence.

                Only parties equal in capabilities are negotiated. The unequal either subdue or obey.

                This is Khivi's groveling psychology. If there is less strength and opportunity, then there is a choice. Do as you say or fight. Russia will not obey anyone, I hope you will understand this. hi
                1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) 22 December 2020 22: 21
                  -3
                  True? belay And what wretched boy wrote this on your behalf?

                  I conveyed YOUR words and the words of Mr. Marzhetsky :) Will you repeat it for the third time?) Or will it come to you?)

                  Well, actually, you don't wave, you wave, but that's it ...

                  It's not for you to point me to grammar, given how you wrote the adverb "firsthand" :)

                  Moreover, the word "waving" is quite acceptable from the point of view of the modern Russian language, although it is considered more colloquial. Educate yourself:

                  https://www.ekburg.ru/news/18/45598-kak-pravilno-mashet-ili-makhaet/

                  But the expression "not by hearsay" does not exist in nature - only in your parallel reality :)

                  Well, and the flag in their hands. Will they leave garrisons on every asteroid?

                  How they (the Americans and the Chinese) will defend their space possessions - the future will show.

                  In addition, there is a likelihood of deterioration in US-China relations. Perhaps they will not be up to the division of asteroids. Look at your leisure, the information is interesting.

                  This has nothing to do with the issue under consideration. Even if they are at enmity, the process of "dividing" space resources will still take place (provided that they begin to develop them). How they will divide them - by military or diplomatic means - is the tenth thing.

                  But do not breathe evenly to the products of one overseas company.

                  Of course, because I love space technology more than military, and the space technology of "one American company" is now objectively the most advanced in the world.

                  it was about technological lag, a corporation making such products can hardly be called backward.

                  It was about the lag in space exploration technologies, to which these strategic missiles have nothing to do.

                  This is the meaning of nuclear deterrence.

                  I know. But this has nothing to do with the topic considered in the article.

                  This is Khivi's groveling psychology.

                  This is the psychology of a person who lives in the real world, not in the world of pink ponies.

                  Do as you say or fight. Russia will not obey anyone

                  She already obeyed and more than once. Where is the guarantee that this will never happen again?
            2. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) 22 December 2020 21: 48
              -5
              And here is another quote about how adequate people in the USSR met Neil Armstrong, the first person to visit the moon:

              Almost a year after his flight to the moon, in May-June 1970, Neil Armstrong visited the USSR. On May 24, he arrived in Leningrad, where, as part of a delegation of thirty-two senior NASA executives and scientists, he took part in the XIII annual conference of the Committee on Space Research (COSPAR) under the International Council for Science, which was held May 20-29. Conference participants greeted Armstrong with thunderous applause, who made a big report on the first landing of people on the moon and his impressions of staying and working on the lunar surface. During the days of the forum, the guards experienced great difficulties, restraining those wishing to express their admiration to Armstrong.

              And these are the same people who lived at a time when the situation between the USSR and the USA was much more tense than it is now. And the answer is simple - these people were adequate, and did not see in all people "on the other side" enemies who only think how to destroy the unfortunate Russian woman.
              1. 123 Offline 123
                123 (123) 22 December 2020 22: 06
                +4
                And here is another quote about how adequate people in the USSR met Neil Armstrong, the first person to visit the moon:
                Conference participants greeted Armstrong with thunderous applause
                During the days of the forum, the guards experienced great difficulty, holding back those who wanted to express their admiration for Armstrong.

                This is almost a standard formulation for spraying a less significant event. This is how Moscow welcomed Gagarin. Is there something similar about meeting Armstrong?

                1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) 22 December 2020 22: 28
                  -3
                  This is how Moscow welcomed Gagarin. Is there something similar about meeting Armstrong?

                  There is a simple answer to this:

                  At the same time, the general public knew almost nothing about the astronaut's visit. During the five days of Armstrong's stay in Leningrad, only one local newspaper wrote about him. It was only during the visit that the Soviet side made a decision to extend it [18].

                  It's difficult to express your respect to a person when you don't even know that he is in your city, isn't it?

                  Well, in his native American cities, Armstrong was welcomed no worse than Gagarin in Moscow:

                  On August 13, Neil Armstrong, Edwin Aldrin and Michael Collins, accompanied by their families and NASA Director Thomas Payne, made a blitz tour from Houston to three US cities on the presidential plane from Houston: New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. The 3-hour celebrations in New York were attended by a total of 4 million people... Astronauts welcomed in Chicago 3,5 million peopleк
                  1. 123 Offline 123
                    123 (123) 23 December 2020 06: 49
                    +1
                    During the five days of Armstrong's stay in Leningrad, only one local newspaper wrote about him.
                    in New York, a total of 4 million people took part.
                    Astronauts in Chicago welcomed 3,5 million people

                    This is a pretty bright indicator. yes The attitude towards the success of the Americans at that time is quite indicative. Just don't say that every Soviet person was ready to kiss von Braun, but they did not have the opportunity laughing
                    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                      Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 11: 48
                      -4
                      This is a pretty bright indicator.

                      Yeah. An indicator of the protection of society from unwanted news.

                      The attitude towards the success of the Americans at that time is quite indicative.

                      Yeah, a rather indicative attitude of the POWER to the success of the Americans.

                      Don't tell me that every Soviet person was ready to kiss von Braun.

                      Do not exaggerate and do not bring to the point of absurdity, it does not paint you. Unlike you, I didn’t say anything about “every Soviet person”, about “kissing” too. But to rejoice for the success of the Americans and pay tribute to the undoubted design talent of Wernher von Braun - there would be, I am sure, a lot of such people in the USSR.

                      but they didn't have the opportunity

                      Actually, it was not there - the Apollo 11 team and Wernher von Braun did not come to the USSR. There was only Armstrong.
                      1. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 24 December 2020 12: 47
                        +3
                        Do not exaggerate and do not bring to the point of absurdity, it does not paint you. Unlike you, I didn’t say anything about “every Soviet person”, about “kissing” too. But to rejoice for the success of the Americans and pay tribute to the undoubted design talent of Wernher von Braun - there would be, I am sure, a lot of such people in the USSR.

                        There is only one way to "pay tribute" to the Nazi's design talent, a noose around his neck and a "control" aspen stake.
                        There were indeed quite a few "such people" in the USSR, but they usually waved a pick for crimes committed during the war years.
                        I am sure with your convictions, you would surely be among them.
                      2. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 12: 59
                        -3
                        There is only one way to "pay tribute" to the Nazi's design talent, a noose around his neck and a "control" aspen stake.

                        How much pathos, how much pathos :)

                        At the same time, the Soviet leadership used the design talents of these same Nazis in a more rational way, and even awarded some of them the highest state awards.

                        There were indeed quite a few "such people" in the USSR, but they usually waved a pick for crimes committed during the war years.

                        Yes, really?) Feoktistov, Chertok did not wave any kind of "pick" and did not commit any crimes during the war years :)

                        I am sure with your convictions, you would surely be among them.

                        Practice shows that those. those who tear off their vest and say at every corner that "For Mother Russia they are ready to do anything", they are the first to hand over this very Mother Russia :)
                      3. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 24 December 2020 13: 07
                        +3
                        How much pathos, how much pathos :)

                        Not less than your slippery sycophancy smile

                        At the same time, the Soviet leadership used the design talents of these same Nazis in a more rational way, and even awarded some of them the highest state awards.

                        They were used pragmatically, they worked for us and not for the enemy. This is not an argument for blowing kisses to von Braun.

                        Yes, really?) Feoktistov, Chertok did not wave any kind of "pick" and did not commit any crimes during the war years :)

                        Did they have the same beliefs as you?

                        Practice shows that those. those who tear off their vest and say at every corner that "For Mother Russia they are ready to do anything", they are the first to hand over this very Mother Russia :)

                        Practice shows that those who offer to kiss someone else's tailbone in this lesson are usually ahead, because those who "rip a vest" still have to come to this, but you do not, everything is thoughtful and meaningful, you just have to act. Are you an hour away from Urengoy? smile
                      4. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 13: 19
                        -2
                        Not less than your slippery sycophancy

                        I do not see any sycophancy in recognizing von Braun's design talent. Even during the Great Patriotic War, Soviet designers recognized the talents of the Germans.

                        They were used pragmatically, they worked for us and not for the enemy.

                        First of all, you literally comment back pathetically argued that the former Nazi scientists should immediately be taken to the wall :) I dare say that the murdered scientist also does not work for the enemy.

                        Now that you have been poked into reality with a pug, your traditional spinning of the snake in a pan about "pragmatic use" begins.

                        Pragmatic use does not imply state awards :) And even more so no one put them up against the wall :)

                        Did they have the same beliefs as you?

                        What does it have to do with their and my beliefs? You say that all the citizens of the USSR who rejoiced at the achievements of the Americans (and von Braun) and gave them their due, "waved a pick" and were traitors. I gave you at least 2 specific names. And he also quoted a quote that during Armstrong's visit to Moscow the security could not cope with the flow of people who wanted to show their respect Armstrong.

                        Practice shows that those who offer to kiss someone else's tailbone in this lesson are usually ahead

                        Maybe you will not broadcast here your predisposition to such intimate practices? :) I never said anything about "tailbone kissing". There are other ways to show your respect. However, apparently, these other methods are unknown to you - only kissing the tailbone. But this is already your problem.
                      5. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 24 December 2020 14: 15
                        +3
                        I do not see any sycophancy in recognizing von Braun's design talent.

                        Of course you don’t, you’re used to it.

                        Firstly, you literally comment back pathetically argued that the former Nazi scientists need to go straight to the wall

                        What do you mean ex? Former scientists or ex-Nazis? especially since it was not about all scientists, but about (I quote you)

                        pay tribute to the undoubted design talent of Werner von Braun

                        Another juggling and twitching? smile

                        Now that you have been poked into reality with a pug, your traditional spinning of the snake in a pan about "pragmatic use" begins.

                        First of all, you haven’t yet grown up the "stick". No.
                        Secondly, what facts are we talking about? belay

                        Pragmatic use does not imply state awards :) And even more so no one put them up against the wall :)

                        Why? It is not up to you to decide how to evaluate other people's work. Maybe they were encouraged to work more productively. How pragmatic do you think? How is it in a concentration camp? Exhaustion work?

                        What does it have to do with their and my beliefs? You say that all the citizens of the USSR who rejoiced at the achievements of the Americans (and von Braun) and gave them their due, "waved a pick" and were traitors.

                        Don't juggle, I said that people with similar beliefs waved a pick. Moreover, they "gave their due" to this already something new. Professionals could appreciate the work at its true worth, this is not at all the thoughtless enthusiastic admiration of the ignorant and mediocrity that you are promoting.

                        Maybe you will not broadcast here your predisposition to such intimate practices? :) I never said anything about "tailbone kissing". There are other ways to show your respect.

                        I'm sure you have a lot of them in your arsenal. laughing
                      6. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 14: 39
                        -2
                        Of course you don’t, you’re used to it.

                        Nope, there is simply no sycophancy in this. It is only in your head.

                        What do you mean ex? Former scientists or ex-Nazis?)

                        Initially, it was about German scientists who worked for the Nazis (some of these scientists themselves were in the NSDAP). What you began to mean, once again trying to dodge, I do not know.

                        especially since it was not about all scientists, but about (I quote you)

                        So among the German scientists exported to the USSR, there were also former members of the NSDAP :) Or if the Soviets took them out, this automatically made them white and fluffy, and if the Americans, then they remained Nazi scientists?)

                        Another juggling and twitching?

                        Yes, you do not stop doing this, I have already lost count :)

                        First of all, you haven’t yet grown up the "stick".

                        And nevertheless, it is quite enough for you to continue your rotation in the pan :)

                        Secondly, what facts are we talking about?

                        About the facts that in the country that suffered the most from the Nazis, former Nazi scientists were awarded state awards :) And they did not put them against the wall or hung a noose around their neck, which you are talking about pathetically :)

                        It is not up to you to decide how to evaluate other people's work.

                        And to whom? You?) You are doing this too :) Only the estimates are different.

                        Maybe they were encouraged to work more productively.

                        They were awarded after the implementation of the Soviet atomic project and were released. Some of these scientists stayed in the GDR, some moved to West Germany. So there was no “incentive” for these awards.

                        How pragmatic do you think? How is it in a concentration camp? Exhaustion work?

                        Exaggeration again. Do you have only 2 options? Either a reward, or exhaustion and a concentration camp?) Well, here's the third for you - just create acceptable conditions for work, and after its completion, release them to their homeland (scientists were prisoners of war like that). As you can see, state awards are not required at all.

                        Don't juggle, I said that people with similar beliefs waved a pick.

                        I said that there were people in the USSR who rejoiced at the success of the Americans (and von Braun) in the Moon Race. Not because they outplayed the USSR, but because they made a tremendous achievement for humanity as a whole.

                        To this you replied that such people were traitors.

                        To this, I gave you 2 specific names of people who were not any traitors - moreover, they played an important role in the formation of Soviet cosmonautics.

                        And now, again dipping a pug into the truth, you again began to spin around and rassusolit about some of my and their beliefs :)

                        Professionals could appreciate the work at its true worth, this is not at all the thoughtless enthusiastic admiration of the ignorant and mediocrity that you advocate.

                        I "propagandize" to recognize the objectively high contribution of the Americans (and von Braun) to the development of world astronautics. What is "thoughtless" here and how does this differ from the position of the same Chertok, who in his book "Rockets and People" in plain text calls von Braun a brilliant designer?
                        Come on, explain this difference to me, and I'll take a look at your next spin.

                        I'm sure you have a lot of them in your arsenal.

                        Of course, a lot. And none of them are related to the intimate practices that you are obsessed with :)
                      7. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 24 December 2020 15: 31
                        +3
                        Initially, it was about German scientists who worked for the Nazis (some of these scientists themselves were in the NSDAP). What you began to mean, once again trying to dodge, I do not know.

                        It was originally about von Braun. I was pretty tired of your verbal balancing act negative

                        So among the German scientists exported to the USSR, there were also former members of the NSDAP :) Or if the Soviets took them out, this automatically made them white and fluffy, and if the Americans, then they remained Nazi scientists?)

                        How much can you explain the same thing? fool To use German scientists is progmatics. Any kind of "admiration and admiration" for German scientists working for enemies has nothing to do with pragmatics.

                        They were awarded after the implementation of the Soviet atomic project and were released. Some of these scientists stayed in the GDR, some moved to West Germany. So there was no “incentive” for these awards.

                        This means that their work was appreciated. Do you think there are many "figures" like you in the United States nowadays who exalt their merits immensely? Or at that time the Americans "applauded" their successes?

                        I said that there were people in the USSR who rejoiced at the success of the Americans (and von Braun) in the Moon Race. Not because they outplayed the USSR, but because they made a tremendous achievement for humanity as a whole.

                        It may very well be, but they were happy that people were able to fly to the moon and not specifically von Braun's successes.

                        To this you replied that such people were traitors.

                        You can read what I answered a little higher. Is this another interpretation of what I said?
                        You ascribe to me your conjectures and on the basis of this you deduce such "freaks".

                        And now, again dipping a pug into the truth, you again began to spin around and rassusolit about some of my and their beliefs :)

                        First, it's disgusting.
                        Secondly, such attempts to somehow change the meaning of what was said in the hope of proving their case are futile. There is no desire to engage in such nonsense. Goodbye hi
                      8. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 16: 24
                        -4
                        It was originally about von Braun.

                        Yes, that's right, about him. You said that people who survived the war had only one attitude towards him as a former Nazi scientist - a bayonet and a stock.

                        To this I gave you the example of other German scientists, including those who were in the NSDAP, who were awarded state awards in the USSR without any bayonets and butts.

                        There is no verbal balancing act here - there is a quite appropriate and correct analogy. Or is von Braun somehow different from those German scientists who were exported to the USSR?

                        To use German scientists is progmatics. ...

                        What is the "progmatics" of state awards? German scientists couldn't be used without reward?

                        To use German scientists is progmatics. Any kind of "admiration and admiration" for German scientists working for enemies has nothing to do with pragmatics.

                        Any kind of "admiration and admiration" for German scientists working for enemies has nothing to do with pragmatics.

                        Well, Chertok in his book tells how Soviet specialists analyzing the developments of the Germans, exactly what with delight and admiration related to their achievements, which far outstripped the achievements of the Russians, Americans and British in those years.

                        Quote:

                        Isaev told me about this rare find in Berlin on his return from Peenemünde. He was an engineer of the original mindset, keen on new non-standard ideas no matter who proposed them. In a half-whisper, so as not to be overheard, he narrated: “Bullet in the forehead! What's invented there! This is a plane! But not our pathetic BI, which has a bottle of some one and a half tons, and there are all 100 tons of solid fire! This plane is thrown by this damn engine to a terrible height - 300 or 400 kilometers!
                        It falls down at supersonic speed, but does not cut into the atmosphere, but hits it like a flat pebble that we throw at a minimum angle to the water surface. It hits, bounces and flies on! And so two or three times! Ricochet! Do you remember how we competed in the Carnelian Bay of Koktebel: who will have more sliding touches of the water. So, these figures thus glide through the atmosphere and dive down only after flying over the ocean to cut into New York! A strong idea! ...»

                        And Chertok himself calls von Braun in the same book a brilliant engineer.

                        This means that their work was appreciated.

                        Bingo. And they did not put them against the wall, and did not put a noose around their neck. But this is exactly how, in your own words, in the country most affected by the Nazis, Nazi scientists should have been treated.

                        Do you think there are many "figures" like you in the United States nowadays who exalt their merits immensely?

                        I do not know how the United States treats the Germans who worked for the USSR - I was not interested in this issue. Therefore, unlike you, I will not make any assumptions about this.

                        You can read what I answered a little higher. Is this another interpretation of what I said?

                        No, this is your next attempt to twist and distort the meaning of your own words.

                        You ascribe to me your conjectures and on the basis of this you deduce such "freaks".

                        No speculation, I just give you your own words, said earlier. The fact that you are now trying to justify these words of yours is your problem.

                        First, it's disgusting.

                        I agree. Your pathetic attempts to abandon your own words are disgusting :)

                        All the best.
                      9. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 16: 31
                        -2
                        Oh yes, I forgot

                        It may very well be, but they were happy that people were able to fly to the moon and not specifically von Braun's successes.

                        So that was von Braun's success.
  • Vladest Offline Vladest
    Vladest (Vladimir) 3 February 2021 11: 22
    -4
    Quote: 123
    and those who did find it had a specific attitude to "former SS men" like Wernher von Braun. It is customary for them to express emotions towards such persons with a bayonet or a butt.

    Someone in the USSR informed the population that the Soviet space was built on the basis of the work and development of "Nazi von Braun !?"
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 24 December 2020 08: 59
    -3
    Quote: Cyril
    I personally do not feel any jealousy of the Chinese and I suppose I am not alone in this. What are you saying, whoever does not envy the Chinese is not a Russian? Why do you have so much audacity to decide for everyone?

    It's funny to read this from you, when in one of our skirmishes you attributed to ALL British and Russians a dislike for von Braun and other former Nazi engineers and scientists :)

    Our 123 is a big juggler. smile
    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 11: 49
      -2
      He has that, yes.
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  • Senikza Offline Senikza
    Senikza (Sergei ) 22 December 2020 14: 27
    +4
    If in the next few years nothing changes for the better in Russia, we are not only astronautics, we will lose the country!
    There is nothing to take offense at the Chinese, they started from much worse positions, but have become a superpower. They have an image of the future and they execute the embezzlers.
  • Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 22 December 2020 14: 31
    -2
    China, which is almost completely parasitic on our developments.

    Well, China has already moved away from directly "parasitizing", creating a lot of its own. A reusable ship, for example, was recently tested (our "Eagle" is still a model). However, I would not use this word in principle - there is nothing "parasitic" in copying a successful technology.

    But I agree with the main message of the article, yes. Russia is still losing the new space race to both China and the United States.
  • Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 22 December 2020 14: 33
    -1
    If in the next few years nothing changes for the better in Russia, Russian cosmonautics will only continue to regress under the "curse". And, perhaps, it is worth considering why such a thing became possible at all.

    - Maybe because the salary of a researcher in Russia is less than $ 200? Maybe none of the smart people wants to go to low salaries? And why did cosmonautics develop in the USSR, but not in Russia? But is it developing in communist China? One gets the impression that aliens, or the Lord helps the communists and not so much - the capitalists.
    And Russia should now focus on developing a space elevator. This is the first step in the development of astronautics. No one will step into the distance without her.
    1. Pavel Yo Offline Pavel Yo
      Pavel Yo (Pavel Ermolaev) 30 December 2020 05: 22
      0
      How long have you personally worked as an accountant in the space industry to say such things so confidently? Recently, a law on libel on the Internet was passed, I hope real people for such comments as yours will begin to punish real good fines, or even better sites that do not moderate such comments will punish, in the amount of hundreds of minimum wages for the first time ...
  • Uneven Offline Uneven
    Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 22 December 2020 15: 10
    -4
    A couple of figures: In 2000, the number of space launches of the Russian Federation - 36, China - 5. In 2019, the Russian Federation - 25, China - 34. In addition: “Over the past decade, the Russian space program has recorded an increase in emergency and partially emergency launches - 6,6 % of the total number of launches, which is slightly higher than that of the United States (2,7%) and China (4,2%). "
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 22 December 2020 17: 31
      +5
      A couple of figures: In 2000, the number of space launches of the Russian Federation - 36, China - 5. In 2019, the Russian Federation - 25, China - 34. In addition: “Over the past decade, the Russian space program has recorded an increase in emergency and partially emergency launches - 6,6 % of the total number of launches, which is slightly higher than that of the United States (2,7%) and China (4,2%). "

      To criticize all much. Could you give statistics on Ukraine?

      We are a space power, the United States of America too, - (Zelensky)

      https://nv.ua/ukraine/politics/ukraina-kosmicheskaya-derzhava-zelenskiy-novosti-ukrainy-50131391.html

    2. Brancodd Offline Brancodd
      Brancodd 22 December 2020 19: 56
      +4
      Lies. Over the past 2 years - not a single accident. 52 trouble-free launches. This is a record for the post-Soviet period. China has not had a single year without accidents. ESA has been shaking off the ash from its burned-out rockets for the past 3 years. At the same time, it is 2 times behind us in launches.
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 22 December 2020 21: 57
        -3
        ESA has never applied for the status of a leader in astronautics and has never chased records. She has taken her niche of space research and is doing her job quietly.

        Over the past 2 years - not a single accident. 52 trouble-free starts

        China has not had a single year without accidents

        This is so, yes. But at the same time, in recent years, they have surpassed Russia in the number of launches and in the scale of space programs. They successfully landed the rover on the moon, successfully took and delivered soil samples, and sent a mission to Mars.
        1. Pavel Yo Offline Pavel Yo
          Pavel Yo (Pavel Ermolaev) 30 December 2020 05: 31
          +2
          So Russia does not pursue, does not dump and does not apply political blackmail to third countries to take away loads and launches from other countries. And the decrease in our launches is not a consequence of our policy, but of the Western one, refusing mutually beneficial cooperation even to the detriment of itself - well, they press their loads in the middle parts of the body on our rocket to bring commercial loads, so they forbade their own to work with ours and pour billions of printed babos into their ... Everything is logical. And I smiled about China - when we have the same size of economies, then we can compare the space programs, but while our GDP is ten times less, it’s dibious to compare the rates and sizes of space programs!
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 30 December 2020 09: 05
            -1
            So Russia is not chasing

            Yes Yes Yes. "We don't need this" (c)

            does not dump

            And who is "dumping"?

            and does not apply political blackmail to third countries to take away loads and launches from other countries.

            Give examples of when customers were taken away from Russia with the help of blackmail?

            refusing mutually beneficial cooperation even to the detriment of herself

            Please give an example of which customers abandoned our missiles to their own detriment.

            well, it presses them in the middle parts of the body on our rocket to bring their loads to commercial

            It is strange, for some reason the British OneWeb does not press, the Egyptian NARSS also does not press, the Spanish Hispasat also does not press, and the rest suddenly began to press. It's somehow illogical.

            And he smiled about China - that's when we have the same size of economies - then we can compare space programs

            Well, ESA has a small budget too, but for some reason it manages to send its AMS both to asteroids and to other planets of the solar system.
  • Uneven Offline Uneven
    Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 22 December 2020 15: 17
    -5
    Food for thought: According to the declaration, Rogozin has property worth 350 million. This is three times more than he could earn as an official in his entire life, even taking into account that his official salary is higher than that of the head of NASA.
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 22 December 2020 17: 44
      +6
      Food for thought: According to the declaration, Rogozin has property worth 350 million. This is three times more than he could earn as an official in his entire life, even taking into account that his official salary is higher than that of the head of NASA.

      From what garbage site do you get this information? Information from "Donatenfuehrer"? Deutschland propaganda?

      Navalny spoke about two plots that were allegedly bought by the head of Roscosmos Rogozin. The cost of plots and houses is many times higher than Rogozin's income, according to the FBK investigation.

      Do not pay attention, these are Germans out of resentment, they were recently popularly explained at the UN that the "six of the USA" will not be a permanent member of the Sobez, now they are shitting as they can laughing
      Adequate editions give more balanced estimates.

      https://www.interfax.ru/russia/721843

      https://www.rbc.ru/society/19/08/2020/5f3d66009a794701d1d1d4e1
      1. Uneven Offline Uneven
        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 22 December 2020 22: 45
        -4
        Abuse during the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome has not been stopped to this day, at the moment hundreds of millions of rubles have already been stolen. This was stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin

        https://lenta.ru/news/2019/11/11/kosmodrom/
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) 23 December 2020 06: 54
          +3
          Abuse during the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome has not been stopped to this day, at the moment hundreds of millions of rubles have already been stolen. This was stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin

          Thieves and corrupt officials are everywhere. We are fighting with them. Let me give you a dozen examples of the "planting" of ministers, governors and officials of a lower rank, and you have at least three such examples in Ukraine. Can you?
          1. Uneven Offline Uneven
            Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 23 December 2020 16: 31
            -3
            1) When "fighting" (for example, as in Singapore or South Korea) - the results of the struggle are obvious. And when they only imitate the struggle, it turns out like in the Russian Federation:



            2) "Thieves and corrupt officials are everywhere"
            Even if this were true, how does this justify Russian thieves and corrupt officials?
            1. 123 Offline 123
              123 (123) 23 December 2020 16: 40
              +2
              When "they are fighting" (for example, as in Singapore or South Korea), the results of the struggle are obvious. And when they only imitate the struggle, it turns out like in the Russian Federation:

              You at least start like this, then you will teach life winked
              I don't know about Singapore, here's Korea

              The court sentenced former South Korean President Lee Myung-bak to 15 years in prison for corruption.

              https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5bb72f5d9a7947c918f88eed

              "Thieves and corrupt officials are everywhere"
              Even if this were true, how does this justify Russian thieves and corrupt officials?

              And who justifies them? belay They are planted. What does it mean if it were true? Do you want to say they are not somewhere? Maybe you? laughing
              1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 15: 05
                -4
                The court sentenced former South Korean President Lee Myung-bak to 15 years in prison for corruption.

                Exactly :) Sentenced the former president.

                And here's how things are in Russia:

                The State Duma adopted a law on the immunity of former presidents

                https://www.rbc.ru/politics/09/12/2020/5fd0b2e39a79474c23978c9d

                And in 1999, the current president, with his first decree, guaranteed immunity, security, and life-long benefits to his predecessor, Boris Yeltsin, and his family members.
                1. 123 Offline 123
                  123 (123) 30 December 2020 11: 40
                  0
                  Exactly :) Sentenced the former president.

                  What can I say, corruption in Korea has reached the highest echelons of power, it's sad crying

                  And here's how things are in Russia:

                  Why should we be like Korea? That corruption has been defeated in countries where immunity is not practiced?

                  And in 1999, the current president, with his first decree, guaranteed immunity, security, and life-long benefits to his predecessor, Boris Yeltsin, and his family members.

                  A very pragmatic solution yes I think otherwise EBN would not have resigned, with all the ensuing consequences.
                  1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                    Cyril (Kirill) 30 December 2020 11: 57
                    -1
                    What can I say, corruption in Korea has reached the highest echelons of power, it's sad

                    It has reached them in Russia too, but the "higher echelons" are not responsible for it.

                    Why should we be like Korea?

                    Because according to the corruption perception index, South Caucasus is in 46th position, and Russia - in 136.

                    A very pragmatic solution

                    Of course. After all, if Yeltsin had been brought in for her, it would have created a precedent, and it would have been more difficult for his successor to turn away from his responsibility.

                    I think otherwise EBN would not have resigned, with all the ensuing consequences.

                    To justify the absence of anti-corruption proceedings against a corrupt official by the shortcomings of the political system that he has built is such a level of argumentation :) However, this is always the case with you.
                    1. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 30 December 2020 12: 29
                      +1
                      It has reached them in Russia too, but the "higher echelons" are not responsible for it.

                      True? Have data or blah. blah. blah .. this is my value judgment ..... wink

                      Because according to the corruption perception index, South Caucasus is in 46th position, and Russia - in 136.

                      First, the corruption perception index and the level of corruption are not the same thing.
                      Secondly, the index was "calculated" by a rather curious organization Transparency International, its objectivity is rather doubtful. It's their job to throw at the fan.

                      The Russian branch of Transparency International was recognized as a "foreign agent"

                      https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2703783

                      Of course. After all, if Yeltsin had been brought in for her, it would have created a precedent, and it would have been more difficult for his successor to turn away from his responsibility.

                      How naive do you have a naive notion of life, just bordering on infantilism? sad If attracted ... That is, EBN voluntarily goes to prison .... Are you talking about a man who did not flinch to shoot his own parliament from tanks? If it were not for the "inviolability" of the bloodless transfer of power, it simply would not have taken place.

                      To justify the absence of anti-corruption proceedings against a corrupt official by the shortcomings of the political system that he has built is such a level of argumentation :) However, this is always the case with you.

                      About the absence of anti-corruption proceedings against which specific corrupt official are you talking about? Or is everything abstract as always winked
              2. Uneven Offline Uneven
                Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 30 December 2020 06: 46
                -2
                In the Russian Federation, they are "fighting" not against corruption, as a phenomenon, but against competing firms. Until the case # 144128 gets underway, all talk about the fight against corruption is an empty concussion ...
                1. 123 Offline 123
                  123 (123) 30 December 2020 11: 48
                  0
                  In the Russian Federation, they are "fighting" not against corruption, as a phenomenon, but against competing firms. Until the case # 144128 gets underway, all talk about the fight against corruption is an empty concussion ...

                  Excuse me for your curiosity, where can I get acquainted with the materials of criminal case No. 144128? What is not? request Well then, it's a concussion. wink
                  In the meantime .... here about your like-minded people they show ... some details of the "internal kitchen" of anti-corruption fighters laughing

                  1. Uneven Offline Uneven
                    Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 30 December 2020 12: 09
                    -2
                    Excuse me for your curiosity, where can I get acquainted with the materials of criminal case No. 144128?

                    I gave links above. Believe it or not! This is your personal question.
                    Here it is, the same gateway:


                    Personally, I do not perceive this character as anything. A number of his materials are noteworthy.
                    1. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 30 December 2020 12: 36
                      0
                      I gave links above. Believe it or not! This is your personal question.

                      You gave links to the speeches of half-crazy freaks, I am asking you about the case materials. Sorry, but I'm not used to taking the word of any dubious person, I would like to get acquainted with the facts.

                      Here it is, the same gateway:

                      What other gateway? The meaning of placing the photo is not clear request What should she confirm or deny?

                      Personally, I do not perceive this character as anything. A number of his materials are noteworthy.

                      You still watch the video yes not one you thought that he "deserves attention", I suppose excessive gullibility is just about you.
                      1. Uneven Offline Uneven
                        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 30 December 2020 12: 46
                        -2
                        1)
                        You gave links to performances by half-crazy freaks

                        Are you a psychiatrist?

                        2)
                        Sorry, but I'm not used to taking the word of any dubious person

                        How exactly can you prove that you are not "any dubious person"?

                        3) You are confusing again: I mentioned the materials, and you - about their author.
                      2. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 30 December 2020 12: 52
                        0
                        "You gave links to the performances of half-crazy freaks"
                        psychiatrist?

                        Let us induce you into the role of a psychiatrist and confirm their sanity. yes Facts smile How much can you repeat, where can you get acquainted with the facts?

                        How exactly can you prove that you are not "any dubious person"?

                        Firstly, I am not obliged to prove anything to you. You put forward the thesis, you need to confirm it.
                        Secondly, I do not propose to be based on my opinion, but I offer facts, verified data published in several fairly reliable sources.

                        You are confusing again: I mentioned the materials, and you - about their author.

                        ABOUT!!! does he have any? belay Can I have some examples?
                      3. Uneven Offline Uneven
                        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 30 December 2020 13: 02
                        -3
                        1)
                        Let us induce you into the role of a psychiatrist and confirm their sanity. The facts

                        I confirm. Everything is stated there correctly. If you don't like the facts themselves, then they are neither cold nor hot from this ...

                        2)
                        First, I don't have to prove anything to you

                        You are not alone in this. But if you have undertaken to characterize someone, then please - justify your opinion.

                        3)
                        Can I have some examples?

                      4. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 30 December 2020 13: 48
                        0
                        I confirm. Everything is stated there correctly. If you don't like the facts themselves, then they are neither cold nor hot from this ...

                        Simply enchanting good Now are facts your word? laughing

                        You are not alone in this. But if you have undertaken to characterize someone, then please - justify your opinion.

                        I suggest keeping the chronological order. First, present the facts to support your version, we will return to the "characterization" later.

                        I watched the video. Explains beautifully. What about appeals to law enforcement agencies? If you want to prove someone's guilt, there is only one way, through the court. He doesn’t do it even while he’s safe abroad. so it's all blah, blah, blah.
                        By the way, what money and where do Navalny live and study?
                      5. Uneven Offline Uneven
                        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 30 December 2020 14: 19
                        -2
                        Now are facts your word?

                        Perhaps you have noticed that I do not work without them. I'm not very good at fantasy. That's why I'm not trying ...

                        Submit facts first to support your story

                        Until now, that's the only thing I do.

                        If you want to prove someone's guilt, there is only one way, through the court

                        The absence of refutations is the best proof. Legal registration will take place immediately after an independent court appears in Russia.

                        By the way, what money and where do Navalny live and study?

                        Personally, I don't give a damn about that - Navalny is not in power.
                      6. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 30 December 2020 14: 59
                        0
                        Perhaps you have noticed that I do not work without them. I'm not very good at fantasy. That's why I'm not trying ...

                        You are exactly what you are trying yes Where are they facts? request let's get at least one to start.

                        Until now, that's the only thing I do.

                        As it turns out poorly, there are still no facts. "Exhaust" zero request

                        The absence of refutations is the best proof.

                        If you refute every blogger on the Internet, life is not enough.

                        Legal registration will take place immediately after an independent court appears in Russia.

                        Did Navalny tell you this or is it just your opinion? What court in your understanding is independent is not clear, for sure the one that will put people on videos on the Internet laughing Fortunately, the prospects for the emergence of such are very vague.
                        If the case was considered in court, Navalny's lawyers could have at their disposal real data, on the basis of which the court makes a conclusion. It would be possible to clearly show the correctness of their position and the bias of the court, if any. But, apparently, he is not interested in this. request All he needs is to trumpet about corruption and declare we have extracts. And under the guise of stealing "donatics" and attaching a family to them abroad.

                        Personally, I don't give a damn about that - Navalny is not in power.

                        Fortunately, he won't be there. If you don't give a damn, then you didn't send "donatics"? And the kids, if any? Check their pocket money laughing
                      7. Uneven Offline Uneven
                        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 30 December 2020 16: 01
                        -2
                        1)
                        You are exactly what you are trying. Where are they facts?

                        The facts are above. They expect your "attempts" to comprehend them.

                        2)
                        If you refute every blogger on the Internet, life is not enough

                        Are you saying that "every blogger" has compromising evidence on the current officials of the Russian Federation?
                      8. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 30 December 2020 16: 59
                        +1
                        The facts are above. They expect your "attempts" to comprehend them.

                        Do me a favor, state at least one briefly yes

                        Are you saying that "every blogger" has compromising evidence on the current officials of the Russian Federation?

                        Compromising evidence? belay laughing crying lol He has nothing but "we have extracts" request This is zero, empty chatter.

                        Examples from countries with an independent court:

                        It is a pity that there are no European countries or the United States among them, and they told us so much about the wonderful judicial system. laughing I hope they will take the "righteous path", we are waiting for the soon "landing" of Mrekel or Biden good
                        In general, I am happy for the Koreans and South Americans, good luck to them. The example with Ukraine was particularly encouraging. Who was convicted of corruption there, tell me? Or when, for example, an "independent" Ukrainian court will convict at least someone for wearing banned Nazi symbols?

                      9. The comment was deleted.
                      10. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 30 December 2020 18: 19
                        0
                        What to do, the severity of Russian laws is mitigated by the non-binding nature of their implementation laughing After all, Navalny is also not in lumbering but in Germany, although if you follow the beech of the law, everything should be somewhat different.

                        What can you say about Ukraine? When will at least one corrupt official or Nazi be convicted?
                      11. Uneven Offline Uneven
                        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 30 December 2020 18: 44
                        -2
                        I have absolutely no control over the situation in Ukraine. The last time I was there in the 60s of the last century. It was good on the South Coast. I have not seen a single corrupt official or a Nazi.
                      12. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 30 December 2020 18: 50
                        0
                        I have absolutely no control over the situation in Ukraine. The last time I was there in the 60s of the last century. It was good on the South Coast. I have not seen a single corrupt official or a Nazi.

                        I guess a lot has changed since then. You probably don't visit Korea or Argentina more often, but you give out information. Does your vision fail in Ukraine? "Dead zone"? Do you want to help?
                      13. Uneven Offline Uneven
                        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 31 December 2020 05: 42
                        -2
                        You have a clearly hypertrophied interest in Ukraine, explained (from my point of view) only by solidarity with the position of the Russian agitprop "green grapes".
                      14. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 31 December 2020 05: 53
                        0
                        You have a clearly hypertrophied interest in Ukraine, explained (from my point of view) only by solidarity with the position of the Russian agitprop "green grapes".

                        But you have a reverent attitude towards the regime operating there and all sorts of Nazi henchmen like Bandera laughing Surely Sumerian propaganda has eaten into the brain yes
                      15. Uneven Offline Uneven
                        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 31 December 2020 11: 04
                        -2
                        Let me remind you the title of the topic discussed here: "Russia is at risk of dropping out of the space race of superpowers." And Ukraine is to blame for the failure of the Russian Federation on the space front?
                      16. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 31 December 2020 12: 54
                        +1
                        Let me remind you the title of the topic discussed here: "Russia is at risk of dropping out of the space race of superpowers." And Ukraine is to blame for the failure of the Russian Federation on the space front?

                        Congratulations!!!! On the 3rd day you remembered the topic of the article laughing
                        "At risk of retirement" is the value judgment of the author
                        "Russia's failure on the space front" is Svidomit's dream, and unrealizable winked
                        Hello Yuzhmash hi
                      17. Uneven Offline Uneven
                        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 31 December 2020 16: 24
                        -2
                        1) "On the 3rd day you remembered the topic of the article" Well, you still have everything ahead!
                        2) Russia's failure on the cosmic front is just a statement of fact. One epic with holes in the ISS is worth it! We will modestly keep silent about the problems with the cosmonauts' underwear.
                        3) "Hello Yuzhmash" - See p. 1
                      18. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 31 December 2020 17: 23
                        0
                        "On the 3rd day you remembered the topic of the article" Well, you still have everything ahead!

                        These are your speculations repeat

                        Russia's failure on the space front is simply a statement of fact. One epic with holes in the ISS is worth it! About problems with underwear

                        You traditionally declare the fruits of the fulfilled consciousness as facts. lol
                        Holes, underwear ..... on the basis of this analysis, do you draw conclusions? belay Are you an analyst for lace lingerie? smile
                        However, it is not surprising, no matter how you mimic, you cannot hide belonging to the pot bearers. No.
                        Sala to indigenous rocket scientists !!!!
                      19. Uneven Offline Uneven
                        Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 1 January 2021 22: 16
                        -3
                        Help on the topic:

                        We plan to create a permanent station on the Moon by 2015, and from 2020 industrial production of a rare isotope, helium-3, may begin on the Earth's satellite, "said Nikolai Sevastyanov, head of RSC Energia, writes the Kommersant newspaper.
                        Sevastyanov also noted that in 2015 the Clipper reusable spacecraft will be "put into operation", with the help of which flights to the Moon will be carried out. The intermediate target for the Russian spacecraft will be the ISS, which, according to the head of the rocket and space corporation, by this time will turn into an international spaceport. In addition to the Clipper, intended mainly for transporting people, the interorbital tug Parom will participate in the construction of the lunar base.
                      20. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 1 January 2021 23: 51
                        +1
                        Help on the topic. QUOTE:

                        Want some more quotes? smile

                        "We will build new ships to take man deep into the universe, to set foot on the moon again and prepare for travel beyond our world. (George Bush 2004.)

                        https://history.nasa.gov/Bush%20SEP.htm

                        The project, on which NASA has already spent $ 9 billion, "is too expensive, lags behind the plan and does not shine with innovation." (Barack Obama 2010)

                        This is the first step in returning American astronauts to the moon for the first time since 1972 for long-term study and exploration. ”(Donald Trump 2017)

                        https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/new-space-policy-directive-calls-for-human-expansion-across-solar-system
                    2. Uneven Offline Uneven
                      Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 1 January 2021 22: 23
                      -3
                      For comparison:

                      The degree of US technological superiority in space is so pervasive that no potential adversaries / competitors in the foreseeable future can even come close to the overclocked locomotive of American private innovation in space. The Russian space program looks like a pale shadow of the technological might of the Soviet Union. For all the post-Soviet times, not a single truly breakthrough product or technology has been created. The imperceptibility of the size of the Russian economy, the ongoing brain drain, the degradation of technical education, the isolation of the space industry by international sanctions and export restrictions, and most importantly, the monopoly quasi-state structure of the space industry in the complete absence of entrepreneurial initiative - all this is a guarantee of guaranteed decay of the former power.

                      https://www.forbes.ru/tehnologii/401873-okonchatelnaya-pobeda-ssha-kak-rossiya-beznadezhno-otstala-ot-ameriki-v
                    3. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 2 January 2021 00: 03
                      +2
                      For comparison:

                      You are offering a boastful statement of Americans for comparison
                      where do they consider themselves the hubs of the earth, trumpeting about their own superiority and exclusivity? laughing They have been talking about this for 16 years now and in fact everything ends in a mess. The moon is still in place and there are no Americans there. request
                      In general, Bloomberg has the right to his own opinion, he expressed it and no more. You are repeating the same mistake. You declare this very opinion an irrefutable fact and argue until you turn blue in the face that this is so. I have to disappoint you, for many people the words of Americans and reality are not the same thing.
                    4. Uneven Offline Uneven
                      Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 2 January 2021 12: 37
                      -3
                      1)
                      it all ends in zilch

                      - absolutely true about Russian space plans.

                      2)
                      declare an opinion an irrefutable fact

                      - the facts are given below. Perhaps you have not yet reached them.

                      3) Again, you have nothing to say about the topic of the article?
                    5. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 2 January 2021 13: 39
                      0
                      - absolutely true about Russian space plans.

                      This is absolutely true for all unrealized plans. If you focus on exactly and only Russian, show your bias and not objectivity.

                      the facts are given below. You may not have reached them yet

                      You do exactly as described:

                      You are repeating the same mistake. You declare this very opinion an irrefutable fact and argue until you blue in the face that this is so.

                      There are some value judgments of Bloomberg.

                      Again, you have nothing to say about the topic of the article?

                      Firstly, there is nothing to say to you because the argumentation is reduced to quoting Bloomerg.
                      Secondly, I can even remind you of the topic if you have forgotten ...

                      Russia risks dropping out of the superpower space race

                      I don’t see such risks yet request You simply do not have arguments in favor of a negative scenario other than the inflated conceit of the authors of Bloomberg and their opinion hi
                    6. Uneven Offline Uneven
                      Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 2 January 2021 21: 26
                      -3
                      This is absolutely true for all unrealized plans. If you focus specifically and only on Russian ones, you show your bias and not objectivity.

                      An article about Russian problems. About them and speech. And Bloomberg has it too.

                      nothing to say to you

                      a) Is that all that you were worthy to say on this topic? Not much!
                      b) What I quoted is not enough for you? Need more?

                      I don’t see such risks yet

                      Are you able to explain the reason for your blindness?
                    7. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 2 January 2021 22: 26
                      +1
                      An article about Russian problems. About them and speech. And Bloomberg has it too.

                      Do you think Russia is participating in this race in splendid isolation?

                      Is it not enough for you what I have quoted? Need more?

                      I would like to hear your own opinion, arguments, analysis, conclusions. I can read Bloomberg on my own.

                      Are you able to explain the reason for your blindness?

                      No more than you can explain your own hi
                    8. Uneven Offline Uneven
                      Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 3 January 2021 12: 22
                      -2
                      Do you think Russia is participating in this race in splendid isolation?

                      The same manual: I'm talking about Russian problems, and you about "myself".

                      I would like to hear your own opinion, arguments, analysis, conclusions.

                      Already. In terms of quantity, no less than yours.

                      No more than you can explain your own

                      See item 1 The same methodology. Reception "myself".
                    9. 123 Offline 123
                      123 (123) 3 January 2021 13: 12
                      +1
                      The same manual: I'm talking about Russian problems, and you about "myself".

                      And I tell you about the topic. Let me try to explain to you. If we talk about the space race, this means that besides Russia, at least someone else is participating in it. Yes, Russia has problems, do you think the other participants have none? At a minimum, it is necessary to compare, problems, achievements, results, trends. You are simply broadcasting the opinion of the representatives of the rival country of Russia on this very race and offering to savor our problems.
                      You call this analysis? sad
                    10. Uneven Offline Uneven
                      Uneven (VADIM STOLBOV) 3 January 2021 13: 18
                      -2
                      Yes, Russia has problems, do you think the other participants have none? At least you need to compare

                      a) Well, thank God! Recognized.
                      b) By what criteria do you propose to compare?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Pavel Yo Offline Pavel Yo
    Pavel Yo (Pavel Ermolaev) 30 December 2020 05: 35
    0
    What other results of the fight against corrupt officials do you expect, except for the number of cases initiated against top officials and other managers?))))
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 24 December 2020 08: 49
    0
    Quote: 123
    We are fighting with them. Let me give you a dozen examples of the "planting" of ministers, governors and officials of a lower rank, and you have at least three such examples in Ukraine. Can you?

    And where does Ukraine in general? Is this a new propaganda trend like this, to compare with Independent?
    Then this is really BOTTOM ...
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 24 December 2020 08: 52
      +4
      And where does Ukraine in general? Is this a new propaganda trend like this, to compare with Independent?
      Then this is really BOTTOM ...

      Our correspondence has been going on for a long time, as far as I remember the comrade represents exactly that country. You on his part do not see any objections like yours .. In general, you got in without understanding.
      Did they knock you down again? smile
    2. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 15: 00
      -2
      When there is nothing to argue with, compare it with Ukraine :) Well, at least it’s not with Papua New Guinea. Although, maybe 123 will come to that.
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 24 December 2020 15: 38
        +4
        When there is nothing to argue with, compare it with Ukraine :) Well, at least it’s not with Papua New Guinea. Although, maybe 123 will come to that.

        I compare it with the country of residence of the opponent, besides, it was not only Ukraine that was discussed. If you master, re-read the comments above, for example Korea is mentioned there. What arguments do you need, with whom do you consider it necessary to compare?
        As usual, you did not understand the essence of the issue and "rushed into battle" without preparation, as a result, once again "gassed the puddle" winked
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 16: 04
          -3
          I compare it with the country of residence of the opponent, besides, it was not only Ukraine that was discussed.

          Why compare with it if the article deals with Russia, the USA and China?

          it mentions Korea, for example.

          He mentioned it as a country in which they really fight corruption, in response to your "We are fighting with them." Your opponent did not say anything about Ukraine.

          You yourself were the first to start arguing in the format "and in your Ukraine ...", although your opponent initially did not say anything about Ukraine.

          You yourself were the first to translate the arrows, and now you are surprised at the same.
          1. Pavel Yo Offline Pavel Yo
            Pavel Yo (Pavel Ermolaev) 30 December 2020 05: 37
            0
            South Korea is so actively fighting corruption that the president turned out to be a corrupt official.
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) 30 December 2020 08: 51
              -1
              Because in the South Caucasus they are so actively fighting corruption, this very president was brought to justice.
  • Petr Vladimirovich (Peter) 22 December 2020 16: 13
    0
    Sergei! Well done! To shock the audience so that they break from the keyboard to the refrigerator and back, you need to be able to! Respect and respect !!!
    KRGS, Peter
    1. cmonman Offline cmonman
      cmonman (Garik Mokin) 22 December 2020 18: 18
      -3
      to break down from Klava to the refrigerator and back ...

      Well said ... !!! Class !!!
    2. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 24 December 2020 07: 08
      0
      Thank you if you're not kidding smile
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 24 December 2020 08: 46
        +2
        Thank you if you're not kidding

        They are not joking, they will joke yes
        1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
          Marzhecki (Sergei) 24 December 2020 08: 49
          0
          And this is how someone perceives. wink
  • Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
    Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 22 December 2020 18: 11
    +4
    How did it happen that the PRC has become a great space power, whose achievements cannot but cause a feeling of jealousy in Russians?

    Not jealousy, pride in a comrade who picked up the banner of socialism from the hands of a fallen teacher and continues the work of building socialism begun by the teacher.
    While the USSR was one of the two great powers in the world and was gradually decaying due to the formal socialization of production and the isolation of the leadership of the party and the state, the formation of a class of untouchables, planning from above for everything and everyone, an increase in commodity shortages and social fermentation, the PRC eked out a miserable existence and a bicycle was the ultimate dream.
    The turning point in the development of socialism in the PRC was the reforms of Deng Xiaoping, who realized that the economic policy of the state should never break away from the lower classes, that socialism is only a transitional stage and has such signs of capitalism as private initiative, property, personal enrichment, etc. natural aspirations of people.
    How to combine the private-proprietary interests of citizens with public and state interests K. Marx and F. Engels did not say a word, and V. I. Lenin not only pointed out - How, but also checked in practice. The New Economic Policy showed brilliant results in the 20s in the USSR, but after the death of V.I. Lenin it was curtailed under the growing threat of war and the need to mobilize all available resources to create heavy industry and the production of means of production.
    Deng Xiaoping took as a basis Lenin's experience of building socialism in relation to the specific conditions of China of his time, and the Chinese Communist Party enriched the theory of Marxism and outlined a "road map" for building socialism for all in relation to its specific conditions and times.
  • cmonman Offline cmonman
    cmonman (Garik Mokin) 22 December 2020 18: 13
    -3
    If nothing changes for the better in Russia in the next few years ...

    Sergei, please list what, in your opinion, should change in Russia for the “better”, otherwise the readers are confused by your phrase! They, the readers, want to change a lot ... laughing
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 24 December 2020 07: 07
      0
      I also want to change a lot, these are my personal wishes. Let everyone think with his own head.
  • steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 22 December 2020 19: 27
    0
    I agree with the article. The examples are convincing, some have nothing to argue. In manned space, we are already catching up. It calms, and maybe even pleases, we are still unattainable in military space. Or maybe it's for the best? With our economy, what kind of space can you dream of? I'm glad for Rogozin with his annual 44 million rubles. You don't need education to have such a salary. It is enough not to have a conscience!
    1. cmonman Offline cmonman
      cmonman (Garik Mokin) 23 December 2020 16: 57
      -2
      ... maybe even happy, in military space we are still out of reach.

      Unattainable in terms of the speed of their missiles or their take-off height? Or by quantity?
  • Brancodd Offline Brancodd
    Brancodd 22 December 2020 20: 35
    +2
    Quote: 123
    Yes, slowly, with a creak, with a swing, but there is movement forward. The management of the state corporation is not my friends or relatives, and I do not feel much sympathy for them, but ... the same Rogozin has not been there for 10 years, but only 2. The hangara still flew with him. And shading to it basically ... "either cursed" wrong, then joked with a trampoline, somewhere at this level

    If we take away the hysterics, then we can state that in 2 years under Rogozin, Roscosmos has already done something.
    For example, already 2 years - not a single accident (52 starts). Not an achievement? Well compare with ESA
    So far, everything that is planned in the federal space program is being completed on time, including the construction schedule for the second stage at Vostochny, and the development of Soyuz5
    We managed to complete the transfer of production of the Angara to the Omsk flight. This is an integral part of Khrunichev's financial recovery. The debt burden has decreased from 130 billion rubles to 38 billion rubles.
    "Sarmat" in Krasnoyarsk is the same Roscosmos. In 2022 will be adopted
    Rogozin has so far managed to snatch funds from the Ministry of Finance for key projects - the hydrogen stage for the Angara and Nuclon. I hope we will be able to resolve the issue of financing Sphere.
  • Brancodd Offline Brancodd
    Brancodd 22 December 2020 22: 59
    +3
    Quote: Cyril
    This is so, yes. But at the same time, in recent years, they have surpassed Russia in the number of launches and in the scale of space programs. They successfully landed the rover on the moon, successfully took and delivered soil samples, and sent a mission to Mars.

    Well done. But let's compare Roskosmos not with China with its financial capabilities, but with Roskosmos 4-5 years ago.
    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 14: 52
      -2
      But let's compare Roskosmos not with China with its financial capabilities, but with Roskosmos 4-5 years ago.

      Let's compare.

      In 2014 - 32 orbital launches (31 successful)

      In 2015 - 26 orbital launches (23 successful)

      2020 - 15 orbital launches (0 failed).

      In total, in 2014-15, Russia was the undisputed world leader in space launches (the share of the global number was 30-39%), and in 2020 - only the third in the world, moreover, by a wide margin from the Americans and Chinese.
      1. Brancodd Offline Brancodd
        Brancodd 24 December 2020 15: 36
        +3
        Let's compare.

        In 2014 - 32 orbital launches (31 successful)

        In 2015 - 26 orbital launches (23 successful)

        2020 - 15 orbital launches (0 failed).

        In total, in 2014-15, Russia was the undisputed world leader in space launches (the share of the global number was 30-39%), and in 2020 - only the third in the world, moreover, by a wide margin from the Americans and Chinese.

        The statistics given are not complete and do not fully correspond to reality:

        For the period from 2000 to 2009, 176 launches were carried out (17.6 per year), emergency - 11 emergency)
        2010- 23 (1 emergency)
        2011- 24 (3 emergency)
        2012 - 26 (1 emergency)
        2013 - 27 (2 emergency)
        2014 - 26 (1 emergency)
        2015 -17 (2 emergency)
        2016- 15 (1 emergency)
        2017 - 17 (1 emergency)
        2018 - 20 (1 emergency)

        2019 - 25 (0 emergency)
        2020 - 16 (0 emergency)

        Since 2000 there has not been a single year without accidents.
        2019 and 2020 do not fall out of the statistics from the year of your choice in 2014 by the number of starts, but there are no accidents. This is an achievement for me. I hope this series will continue next year.
        In addition, next year we are waiting for:
        2 hangars launches
        Launching the Science module
        Luna 25 launch
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 16: 00
          -2
          You have some strange statistics. On your list in 2015, Russia performed only 17 orbital launches, while in reality - as many as 26 (23 successful)

          in 2010 - not 23, but 31

          in 2011 - not 24, but 32

          in 2012 - 24, not 26

          in 2013 - not 27, but 32

          in 2014 - not 26, but 36.
          1. Brancodd Offline Brancodd
            Brancodd 24 December 2020 18: 34
            +1
            All the same, I recommend using not Wikipedia, but the official data of Roscosmos

            https://www.roscosmos.ru/launch/2020/
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) 24 December 2020 19: 29
              -2
              But I still advise you to use Wikipedia, and not with the Roscosmos website. The reason is that only those launches that formally take place under its jurisdiction are displayed on the Roscosmos website. While in Russia, space launches are also carried out under the jurisdiction of the VVKO.

              And although these are formally different organizations, the technical part (the manufacture of missiles, preparation for launch, the launch itself, etc.) is performed by Roskosmos and the enterprises that are part of its structure. VVKO in such cases acts only as a customer and coordinator.
              1. Brancodd Offline Brancodd
                Brancodd 24 December 2020 23: 26
                +1
                All launches from Plesetsk (VVKO) are accounted for in the statistics of Roscosmos, including Rokot launches.
                1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) 25 December 2020 07: 17
                  -2
                  No, the Roscosmos website does not display launches performed in the interests of the Ministry of Defense.

                  Well, go to Wikipedia, there all these launches are listed by year, you can check each launch.
                  1. Brancodd Offline Brancodd
                    Brancodd 25 December 2020 12: 33
                    +1
                    No, the Roscosmos website does not display launches performed in the interests of the Ministry of Defense.

                    Sure?

  • Brancodd Offline Brancodd
    Brancodd 22 December 2020 23: 19
    +3
    Quote: Cyril
    Your Vanguards (which one or two have been used up) and Zircons (which are not yet in service at all) do not matter in the matter of the division of space resources, as long as you do not have what to extract and transport these resources.

    Last week, the next units with the Avangard unit near Orenburg took up combat duty. Next year we are waiting for the S-500. And Nudol. And this is an anti-satellite weapon. With China, there will most likely be cooperation, not a war in space. At least in the summer, the Chinese National Space Administration invited Roscosmos to agree on programs for exploring the moon and consider the possibility of creating a joint orbital station ...
  • eco3 Offline eco3
    eco3 (erwin vercauteren) 23 December 2020 07: 35
    +4
    Russia has just developed a revolutionary new ion engine for space exploration and you say Russia is losing the space race really pathetic amateurs who call themselves experts journalists and analysts good laughs with your article I have to thank you for that but maybe you should try game analysts it's more on yours level
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 24 December 2020 07: 06
      0
      It is not enough to develop an engine; it still needs to be built and implemented. And then laugh at your health.
  • xalexey Offline xalexey
    xalexey (alex x) 23 December 2020 12: 37
    0
    Let's be realistic that today all these programs are nothing more than speculation and drawings in the sand. A repeat of our successes 40 years ago, this is not an application for development. Only our one nuclear tug program can change the alignment of forces as in the exploration of the Moon, Mars and Space in general.
  • Petr Vladimirovich (Peter) 23 December 2020 18: 35
    0
    Oh! And it is possible to arrange the work so that in the City Clinical Hospital 64, who is snickering in wards for 6 people. there were toilets (I am silent about the shower), towels, disposable dishes in the dining room, for 80 patients with amputations not 10, but at least 20 serviceable wheelchairs, and cockroaches, on the contrary, were not there? And then at least to Mars, at least to Jupiter ...
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 24 December 2020 08: 51
      +2
      And who interferes with solving the problems of Jupiter and the toilets in parallel? The fact that you have to make a choice between them speaks only of the inefficiency of management.
      1. Petr Vladimirovich (Peter) 24 December 2020 11: 33
        0
        I completely agree. But at the same time, I believe that it should still have started with solving earthly problems ...)))
    2. Brancodd Offline Brancodd
      Brancodd 24 December 2020 09: 46
      +1
      Oh! And it is possible to arrange the work so that in the City Clinical Hospital 64, who is snickering in wards for 6 people. there were toilets (I am silent about the shower), towels, disposable dishes in the dining room, for 80 patients with amputations not 10, but at least 20 serviceable wheelchairs, and cockroaches, on the contrary, were not there? And then at least to Mars, at least to Jupiter ...

      The funds for the development of the health care system were not taken by the Space Program. Here is a small example - the size of the loan issued to Turkey for the construction of the Akkuyu nuclear power plant exceeds the financing of the entire five-year space program ($ 20 billion). It's a matter of priorities
  • Vladest Offline Vladest
    Vladest (Vladimir) 3 February 2021 10: 50
    -3
    And the entire cosmonautics of the USSR and the USA parasitizes on von Braun's German cosmonautics.