Europe chose a self-destructive path in the fight against Russia


According to the Dusseldorf Chamber of Commerce and Industry (Germany), due to its anti-Russian sanctions policy The European Union incurred common economic losses exceeding 120 billion euros, writes the Strategic Culture.


During the recent EU summit, European leaders decided to extend the restrictions until mid-2021. However, such actions only contribute to the growth of tension and mistrust. The sanctions have been in effect since 2014, when the EU accused Russia of interfering in the processes in Ukraine. Moscow reciprocated by imposing restrictions on the export of European agricultural products.

The TPP has calculated that the EU loses 21 billion euros annually, of which about 5,5 billion euros is borne by Europe's largest economy, Germany. Thus, in six years, the Europeans have missed more than 120 billion. In fact, Europe has chosen the path of self-destructive struggle with Russia.

Earlier, the leaders of the EU countries agreed on a fateful stimulus package totaling 1,8 trillion euros. The money is for the 27 member countries to recover from the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic. So, the cumulative losses of the EU from sanctions against Russia amount to 7% of these unprecedented efforts to stimulate growth.

It is simply incomprehensible to the mind why the EU continues to inflict such painful damage on itself, the authors of the publication are surprised. This process is irrational and similar to the act of self-torture or self-flagellation. But the Europeans continue to stubbornly adhere to this direction, although they know very well what happened in Ukraine in 2014. Then, thanks to the efforts of the United States and Europe, a coup d'etat was carried out in this country. As a result, ultranationalist forces and rabid Russophobes came to power in Kiev.

However, the EU continues to cynically accuse Moscow. From this we can conclude that Brussels slavishly follows Washington's course, while European countries are sacrificing their sovereignty for the sake of the obscure US hostility towards Russia. But the Americans do not suffer the same losses as the Europeans, since they do not have large trade ties with the Russians. Probably, the elite of Europe is also irritated by the fact that Russia regularly demonstrates its dignity and independence.
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  1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 17 December 2020 09: 49
    +2
    It remains only to wait for this "self-destruction" due to the ban on all Polish apples ....

    In the meantime, monetary Russian tourists flock to terrible Europe at every opportunity and EUR 89,43 + 0,20.
    It self-destructs well, when they even have gas for cheap - take it, I don't want to.
  2. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 17 December 2020 10: 00
    +2
    As soon as somewhere instead of the word "hello" they say "heil" in someone's personal address - you know, they are waiting for us there, from there our great revival will begin

    17 Moments of Spring

    This is a common strategy for reviving fascism. SS marches have been held in the EU for a long time and no one forbids them. And Ukraine is encouraged and protected, because Bandera and Shukhevych are chosen as heroes there. This is the EU's solidarity and protection from the threat of Russia, which won in World War II, to defeat fascism and Nazism again.
  3. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 17 December 2020 10: 04
    -4
    EU GDP 17.1 trillion euros. 21 billion is 0.12% of EU GDP.
    1. Dear sofa expert. 17 December 2020 11: 12
      +3
      EU GDP 17.1 trillion euros. 21 billion is 0.12% of EU GDP.

      Do you think that profit and GDP are the same thing?
      1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 17 December 2020 11: 26
        -3
        No, not the same thing. Do you think income and profit are one and the same?
        1. ODRAP Offline ODRAP
          ODRAP (Alexey) 17 December 2020 12: 31
          -5
          Don't touch uncle. He's always twitching. bully
          1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 17 December 2020 12: 59
            -4
            By the way, yes, a respected sofa expert raised the right question.

            Earlier, the leaders of the EU countries agreed on a fateful stimulus package totaling 1,8 trillion euros. The money is for the 27 member countries to recover from the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic. So, the cumulative losses of the EU from sanctions against Russia amount to 7% of these unprecedented efforts to stimulate growth.

            This part of the article compares soft to warm. That is, they compare the reduction in trade with budget expenditures, that is, the costs of collected taxes.
            1. Dear sofa expert. 17 December 2020 14: 02
              +2
              That is, they compare the reduction in trade with budget expenditures, that is, the costs of collected taxes.

              Correctly noticed. 120 billion is precisely the lost trade taxes collected. Now imagine the size of the “underwater part of the iceberg” - the income (and profit) of the enterprises themselves, which received less money from unsold (because of the embargo, due to the imposed sanctions) products to Russia.
              1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 17 December 2020 14: 47
                -5
                Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                Correctly noticed. 120 billion is precisely the lost trade taxes collected.

                What makes you think that these are taxes?

                https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5da419129a79472b97f4079d

                It says here that we are talking about a reduction in trade volumes.

                Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                Now imagine the size of the “underwater part of the iceberg” - the income (and profit) of the enterprises themselves, which received less money from unsold (because of the embargo, due to the imposed sanctions) products to Russia.

                Citizens of the Russian Federation do not eat so much.
        2. Dear sofa expert. 17 December 2020 13: 42
          +1
          No, not the same thing. Do you think income and profit are one and the same?

          And what has the income to do with it? As I understand it, the article refers to the loss of $ 120 billion in profit.
          In addition, if we are talking about profits from international trade, then for the state these two concepts are not particularly different, since when selling, income tax also goes to the state treasury, and the costs of manufacturing (purchasing) and selling products are initially included in the price, and therefore, are shifted onto the shoulders of the buyer.
          1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 17 December 2020 15: 01
            -4
            Quote: Dear sofa expert.
            And what has the income to do with it? As I understand it, the article refers to the loss of $ 120 billion in profit.

            You misunderstand

            Quote: Dear sofa expert.
            In addition, if we are talking about profits from international trade, then for the state these two concepts are not particularly different, since when selling, income tax also goes to the state treasury, and the costs of manufacturing (purchasing) and selling products are initially included in the price, and therefore, are shifted onto the shoulders of the buyer.

            Aaaa .... Well, you say, say so.
            And you don't need to pay wages, pay for raw materials, rent, electricity?
            And if the goods are not for export, who pays the "costs of manufacturing (purchasing) and selling products"
            1. Dear sofa expert. 17 December 2020 15: 51
              +4
              Aaaa .... Well, you say, say so.
              And you don't need to pay wages, pay for raw materials, rent, electricity?
              And if the goods are not for export, who pays the "costs of manufacturing (purchasing) and selling products"

              See above: “.. and the costs of manufacturing (purchasing) and selling products are initially included in the price ..)

              What makes you think that these are taxes?

              Got it from the content of the article.

              And here is from your link:

              According to experts, 45% of the monthly lost $ 4 billion (that is, $ 1,8 billion a month) receive less countries that have imposed sanctions against Russia

              Here, too, we are talking about tax profit, because it is money that can be lost.
              “To receive less trade volumes” does not sound like that. Is not it?)

              Citizens of the Russian Federation do not eat so much.

              "Eat" for 500 billion € a year. (Here - you can in volumes)))

              And by the way, it is the size of the EU / Russia market that is a more important factor than the% that you calculate there, mindlessly comparing them to GDP.)

              It is the potential loss of market volumes in favor of China and other suppliers that is even more the main risk of the Europeans from the sanctions imposed by them.
              A holy place is never empty. Products from the EU embargo are quickly being replaced by other, smarter suppliers. Recovering this lost market is difficult. Here, new competitors will not move much, and lost trust is easy to lose, but it is sooooo difficult to get back.
              1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 17 December 2020 23: 25
                -4
                Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                See above: “.. and the costs of manufacturing (purchasing) and selling products are initially included in the price ..)

                And when they sell to the domestic market, do they not mortgage?

                Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                Got it from the content of the article.

                Yes, the author is well done, the readers themselves speculate in the right way, although the author did not write this.

                Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                And here is from your link:
                According to experts, 45% of the monthly lost $ 4 billion (that is, $ 1,8 billion a month) receive less countries that have imposed sanctions against Russia
                Here, too, we are talking about tax profit, because it is money that can be lost.
                “To receive less trade volumes” does not sound like that. Is not it?)

                You read the article more closely, and you don't need to invent it.

                The sanctions imposed on Russia by Western countries reduce trading volume by $ 4 billion per month, with almost half of the losses accounted for by the countries that imposed these sanctions.

                https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5da419129a79472b97f4079d

                Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                "Eat" for 500 billion € a year. (Here - you can in volumes)))

                Perhaps they eat 500 billion euros a year, but of which the share of imports is much less, $ 30 billion.
                https://www.interfax.ru/business/720524
                And in 13 year 43,3 billion $, and as you and I understand, not all of these 43,3 were from the EU

                Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                And by the way, it is the size of the EU / Russia market that is a more important factor than the% that you calculate there, mindlessly comparing them to GDP.)

                I wonder if you yourself understand what you want to say?

                Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                It is the potential loss of market volumes in favor of China and other suppliers that is even more the main risk of the Europeans from the sanctions imposed by them.
                A holy place is never empty. Products from the EU embargo are quickly being replaced by other, smarter suppliers. Recovering this lost market is difficult. Here, new competitors will not move much, and lost trust is easy to lose, but it is sooooo difficult to get back.

                Yes, the Russian Federation will have to regain the trust of its neighbors for a long time.
                Moreover, by and large, even China has joined the anti-Russian sanctions.

                https://lenta.ru/news/2018/09/14/from_china_with/
                1. Dear sofa expert. 17 December 2020 23: 48
                  +2
                  And when they sell to the domestic market, do they not mortgage?

                  Lay. And how!)

                  Yes, the author is well done, the readers themselves speculate in the right way, although the author did not write this.

                  Self-critical.)

                  You read the article more closely, and you don't need to invent it.

                  Mutually.) Speaking of attention. For some reason it works for you only in one direction (against Russia). That is why you are not indignant that we are talking about 120 billion? Based on your link to RBC, the amount should be almost 10 billion more.)
                  (1,8 billion x 12 months x 6 years = 129,6 billion).
                  But this is so, speaking of your objectivity.)

                  I wonder if you yourself understand what you want to say?

                  Oh, I actually wanted to ask you this question first, but I forgot, because I wrote on my knees, during a break from work. Unlike you, I do not work as a troll, but in production (also affected by European sanctions, by the way.)

                  The Russian Federation will have to regain the trust of its neighbors for a long time.

                  Oh, don't worry so much. Those offended will line up in line to Russia, moreover, in a kneeling position.
                  1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 18 December 2020 11: 05
                    -3
                    Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                    Lay. And how!)

                    Then it is not clear why your idea of ​​putting costs in the price for export.

                    Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                    Self-critical.

                    Do not flatter me, it was not I who wrote the article.

                    Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                    Mutually.) Speaking of attention. For some reason it works for you only in one direction (against Russia). That is why you are not indignant that we are talking about 120 billion? Based on your link to RBC, the amount should be almost 10 billion more.)
                    (1,8 billion x 12 months x 6 years = 129,6 billion).
                    But this is so, speaking of your objectivity.)

                    Not against Russia, but against the authorities of the Russian Federation, shamelessly varuyushh, 6 years in a row that did not ensure the growth of incomes of citizens of the Russian Federation, who turned the country into a gas station of the "West", leading my country into archaism, usurping power. Feel the difference. And I really like to cool the ardor of the hurray of patriotic enthusiasm, which is based only on the great-grandparents.
                    About objectivity. Well, probably because these are all assessments, the sanctions were not imposed all at once, and it is rather delusional to calculate the lesson according to your method.

                    Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                    Oh, I actually wanted to ask you this question first, but I forgot, because I wrote on my knees, during a break from work. Unlike you, I do not work as a troll, but in production (also affected by European sanctions, by the way.)

                    So, I understand that you don't always understand what you wrote. Do you work in a troll factory? They have recently been sanctioned.

                    Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                    Oh, don't worry so much. Those offended will line up in line to Russia, moreover, in a kneeling position.

                    That's right, you need to continue to be a dreamer, no matter what.
                    1. Dear sofa expert. 18 December 2020 11: 28
                      +2
                      Not against Russia, but against the authorities of the Russian Federation, godlessly different,

                      Navalny, formally, as it were, is also against the authorities. And the sanctions, in the end, fall on the shoulders of the people. Thus, the states hostile to Russia, through the people, are trying to put pressure on the regimes they dislike.
                      So, in fact, the Bulk pest and enemy of the people. And the article cries about him, no less than: treason to the Motherland. Try this shirt on yourself. She, too, will be in time for you, if you are really a Russian. Although, I am more than sure that you do not live in Russia. Rather like this .. "medium hand troll"

                      Do you work in a troll factory?

                      See above.
                      1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 18 December 2020 23: 48
                        -3
                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Navalny, formally, as it were, is also against the authorities. And the sanctions, in the end, fall on the shoulders of the people.

                        If you think Bortnikov and Kiriyenko are people, then let them go. Or do you want to say that these people will compensate for their losses from sanctions at the expense of other citizens of the Russian Federation? Then yes, you are right. And by the way, what is Navalny's fault here?
                        And by the way, about objectivity. The citizens of the Russian Federation suffered the main losses not from the sanctions, but from the offices of the Russian sanctions, the price tag for food went up almost twice, and the government talked about inflation of 4% per annum. That is, the government of the Russian Federation, for the most part, has recouped for the sanctions on its citizens. Or remember the Magnitsky case? Sanctions were imposed for his murder, but what did the government do in response? It played out on Russian orphans, mostly disabled. But for some reason it does not upset you?

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        So, in fact, the Bulk pest and enemy of the people. And the article cries about him, no less than: treason to the Motherland.

                        What is his betrayal of his homeland? Want to repeat 37?
                        You will not believe it, but if someone has an opinion different from yours, this does not mean that he is a traitor to his homeland.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Although, I am more than sure that you do not live in Russia. Rather like this .. "medium hand troll"

                        This is understandable, when there is nothing to say, then they usually give out such maxims or get personal. There is nothing new under the Moon.
                        It seems like we discussed the name of my hometown, an orange tree, you suggested that it was Dutch, I said that it was German.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Do you work in a troll factory?
                        See above.

                        Where?
                        But seriously, apart from the Prigozhin troll factory, where in the world have such structures been found? Maybe there really are Ukrainian or State Department factories and you will share similar facts?
                      2. Dear sofa expert. 19 December 2020 00: 08
                        +2
                        What is his betrayal of his homeland? Want to repeat 37?

                        Well, at least in the fact that he is now on the territory of another state, with demands to impose new sanctions, as it were on the "Kremlin oligarchs", but in fact imposed sanctions on Russia because of his demands. Isn't that enough?

                        https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/russland-sanktionen-137.html

                        This is understandable, when there is nothing to say, then they usually give out such maxims or get personal.

                        Well, what else can you call your "activity" on this site? In my opinion, I gave you a completely objective comparison - you with the bulk. You are exactly the same as this, so to speak "fighter for rights", but in fact, an enemy of Russia.
                        What does the transition to personalities have to do with it?

                        Do you work in a troll factory?
                        See above.
                        Where?
                        But seriously, apart from the Prigozhin troll factory, where in the world have such structures been found?

                        So I quoted you about the factories.) Do not distort.
                      3. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 19 December 2020 12: 06
                        -3
                        Quote: Dear couch expert.
                        Well, at least in the fact that he is now on the territory of another state, with demands to impose new sanctions, as it were on the "Kremlin oligarchs", but in fact imposed sanctions on Russia because of his demands. Isn't that enough?

                        What article of the Criminal Code does his actions fall under?
                        Navalny, however, bluntly said that sanctions are needed not against the state as a whole, but against specific individuals around Putin. Why are you so worried about the counting and villas of all Rosenbergs? Do you think that if their assets are seized, they will compensate for this at the expense of Russian citizens?

                        Quote: Dear couch expert.
                        Well, what else can you call your "activity" on this site?

                        Education.

                        Quote: Dear couch expert.
                        In my opinion, I gave you a completely objective comparison - you with the bulk.

                        You and objectivity are incompatible concepts.

                        Quote: Dear couch expert.
                        You are exactly the same as this, so to speak "fighter for rights", but in fact, an enemy of Russia.

                        Let's speak in your language. The Russian Federation will be brought to the zugunder not by Navalny (very few people know him outside of large cities), but by the comprador authorities. Not rallies at the arena of 10 thousand people, but billions of rubles of Colonel Zakharchenko. Not the radio station Echo of Moscow with an audience of at best a million people, but Roldugin's billions of dollars in Panama offshores. The main enemy of Russia is the Russian authorities. You support the enemies of Russia, so you are the enemy of the Russian people.

                        Quote: Dear couch expert.
                        So I quoted you about the factories.) Do not distort.

                        What's the twitching? I just asked, who is not as stupid as a troll factory besides the cook Putin to deal with? In addition to the banal withdrawal of funds from the budget, there is little sense from this.
                      4. Dear sofa expert. 19 December 2020 12: 22
                        +1
                        What article of the Criminal Code does his actions fall under?

                        Slander, Treason to Rodinne.

                        As an example:

                        The statement by Alexei Navalny that Vladimir Putin is personally behind his poisoning could turn into criminal cases. As "Kommersant" writes with reference to the interviewed political scientists, cases can be brought under articles on libel and treason.

                        https://66.ru/news/politic/234894/

                        - I advise you to be careful with this your:

                        ... The main enemy of Russia is the Russian authorities. You support the enemies of Russia, so you are the enemy of the Russian people ...

                        That is, in other words, YOU, here and now, on this site, call on everyone to fight the Russian Power?

                        Do not forget that the power of Russia is the power chosen by the people of Russia. While speaking out against the power of Russia, YOU are simultaneously against the will of the Russian people. Your deed is compounded by the fact that YOU simultaneously support the pressure on Russia from the regimes of other states hostile to it. This is collaboration of the purest water! Well, if, of course, you are a Russian. What I, as I said, strongly doubt. Otherwise, you would not risk so stupidly you and your loved ones here. Do I see it correctly?)
                      5. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 19 December 2020 21: 19
                        -2
                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Slander, Treason to Rodinne.

                        As an example:

                        The statement by Alexei Navalny that Vladimir Putin is personally behind his poisoning could turn into criminal cases. As "Kommersant" writes with reference to the interviewed political scientists, cases can be brought under articles on libel and treason.

                        https://66.ru/news/politic/234894//

                        From an article in Kommersant

                        According to political scientist Oleg Matveychev, ... At the same time, the expert does not believe that the oppositionist can be prosecuted for treason, since he "does not have official duties associated with access to classified materials."

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        - I advise you to be careful with this your:

                        Do not worry.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        That is, in other words, YOU, here and now, on this site, call on everyone to fight the Russian Power?

                        Within the law, yes. Putin and his team run our country poorly.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Do not forget that the power of Russia is the power chosen by the people of Russia.

                        Read what electoral autocracy is.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        While speaking out against the power of Russia, YOU are simultaneously against the will of the Russian people.

                        There is no need to generalize. Putin is chosen by retirees nostalgic for the past. Even in this forum, according to my feelings, its supporters are in the minority.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Your deed is compounded by the fact that YOU simultaneously support the pressure on Russia from the regimes of other states hostile to it.

                        What makes you think that I support?

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        This is collaboration of the purest water!

                        Do not talk nonsense.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Well, if, of course, you are a Russian. What I, as I said, strongly doubt.

                        It's your problems.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Otherwise, you would not risk so stupidly you and your loved ones here.

                        What's the risk? Has it become dangerous to have an excellent opinion about rubbed on TV in the Russian Federation? You are exaggerating, the Russian Federation is not yet North Korea.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Do I see it correctly?)

                        I doubt you see correctly.
                      6. Dear sofa expert. 19 December 2020 22: 58
                        +2
                        Read what electoral autocracy is.

                        So you're fond of libertarianism?)
                      7. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 20 December 2020 13: 46
                        -2
                        Quote: Dear couch expert.
                        So you're fond of libertarianism?)

                        No, libertarianism is too cool for me. Libertians are calling for the abandonment of the state (as are the communists). I think this is not realistic at this historical stage. Social liberalism is closer to me, it does not deny the state and market regulation.
                      8. Dear sofa expert. 20 December 2020 14: 49
                        +2
                        Social liberalism is closer to me,

                        In any case, I understand the essence of your inner problem, which you yourself, in view of too "close distance" to yourself, apparently cannot consider. As the saying goes: “face to face, you can't see your face.

                        The fact is that you are trying to take as the basis of your convictions the example of the "West" (Europe), in which the principles of social liberalism, in general, have taken root well and are functioning. But they function not at all because of their (visible to you) perfection, but because of the absence of disagreements on this basis between the authorities and the people. It so happened historically that these principles are rooted culturally and civilizationally in the European tradition itself. They are not historically rooted in Russia. That is, in order to liberalize the Russian state, one must first liberalize the Russian society itself. And this, for various objective reasons, is not realizable. Multinationality alone, and with it the multiconfessional nature of the Russian state, makes this impossible. Therefore, you, and people like you, have to oppose your ideas not only to the government, but also to the people of Russia itself, and all your statements that you, as it were, are fighting not with Russia, but with its regime, are not consistent. Calling yourself an enemy of the Russian government, you, will or not, automatically become an enemy of all of Russia.
                      9. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 21 December 2020 03: 28
                        -2
                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        In any case, I understand the essence of your inner problem, which you yourself, in view of too "close distance" to yourself, apparently cannot consider. As the saying goes: “face to face, you can't see your face.

                        Do you know what your problem is? You see a problem where there is none. I do not have problems.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        The fact is that you are trying to take as the basis of your convictions the example of the “West” (Europe), in which the principles of social liberalism, in general, have taken root well and are functioning. But they function not at all because of their (visible to you) perfection, but because of the absence of disagreements on this basis between the authorities and the people. It so happened historically that these principles are rooted culturally and civilizationally in the European tradition itself.

                        You forget about countries like Japan or South Korea. Is there a European tradition too? The communist movement (by the way, with some stretch this movement can be called an offshoot of libertarianism) is also a product of European "civilization", but it somehow took root in China, North Korea or the USSR.
                        And by the way, can you name a more "perfect" system of government?

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        They are not historically rooted in Russia. That is, in order to liberalize the Russian state, one must first liberalize the Russian society itself. And this, for various objective reasons, is not realizable. Already multinationality alone, and with it the multiconfessional nature of the Russian state, makes this impossible.

                        This is an old song that Russia is not like that. But history suggests otherwise. "Western" Marxism was also not rooted. But it got accustomed. About 200 years ago, liberalism was not "rooted" in the West either. And if we recall the Novgorod Republic, it turns out that liberalism has more "roots" in Russia than in the West.
                        In the United States, 60 percent of "white" Americans, 15% of blacks and 10% of Latinos. In the Russian Federation 80% of Russians, 10% of Muslims by birth, 5-7% of Muslims. This argument of yours is also not valid.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Therefore, you, and people like you, have to oppose your ideas not only to the government, but also to the people of Russia itself, and all your statements that you, as it were, are fighting not with Russia, but with its regime, are not valid.

                        What is your evidence?
                        Usually in Russia the ruler is the main liberal

                        https://www.rbc.ru/politics/19/01/2014/570416189a794761c0ce5bf4

                        And I ask you, there is no need to speak for the entire people of Russia, no one has authorized you to do this, and I doubt that you own this information

                        https://iz.ru/news/585677

                        In 13, every third Russian saw a "western" path of development for the country, now, after so many years of propaganda, every fifth (mainly young people). If propaganda works in the other direction, they can bring up to 50%.
                        And about "the people and the party are united"

                        https://www.rbc.ru/society/31/01/2019/5c5317049a7947626ffa8eea

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        Calling yourself an enemy of the Russian government, you, willingly or not, automatically become an enemy of all of Russia.

                        Why are you talking nonsense again? I am not an enemy of the Russian government, as a citizen of the Russian Federation I do not support it and advocate its change, even the word “opponent” is too loud.
                      10. Dear sofa expert. 21 December 2020 09: 56
                        +1
                        Do you know what your problem is? You see a problem where there is none. I do not have problems.

                        You have it. The negative assessment of your posts by others, objectively reflects the degree of rejection of you by society.

                        What is your evidence?

                        See one line above.

                        And I ask you not to speak for the whole people of Russia

                        I speak for the majority. And it does not require proof. Otherwise, you would be in this majority now, and this dispute would simply not exist a priori.

                        Why are you talking nonsense again? I am not an enemy of the Russian government,

                        You have defined yourself so.

                        Not against Russia, but against the authorities of the Russian Federation

                        Did you write that?
                      11. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 23 December 2020 14: 16
                        -3
                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        You have it. The negative assessment of your posts by others, objectively reflects the degree of rejection of you by society.

                        I don't have it. On this forum, for the most part there are people of a certain warehouse, and the local rating does not say anything. On other sites, the situation may be the opposite.
                        Vaughn respected Sapsan136 dreams of arranging mass executions of children in Ukraine and at the same time has a high rating. This does not mean that the majority of local residents, and even more so the majority of citizens of the Russian Federation, dream of the same.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        See one line above.

                        See one line above.

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        I speak for the majority. And it does not require proof. Otherwise, you would be in this majority now, and this dispute would simply not exist a priori.

                        Well, you see, not for the whole people, but for the mythical majority, you are making progress.
                        I gave the link above
                        https://www.rbc.ru/society/31/01/2019/5c5317049a7947626ffa8eea
                        What majority are you? Of those 45% who believe that the country is going in the wrong direction, or of those 42% who think that in that direction?

                        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                        You have defined yourself so.

                        Against does not mean enemy. The word "enemy" is too aggressive, it immediately seems that you are looking at someone through the crosshair of the sight or they are looking at you. And I don't want to look at anyone through the scope, and I don't want to be looked at.

                        It says https://iz.ru/news/585677
                        that 55% of the population for their own, special way (note that this is not an absolute majority). True, I doubt that most of them will be able to articulate what this special path is. You can?
                    2. Dear sofa expert. 21 December 2020 11: 52
                      +1
                      In 13, every third Russian saw a "western" path of development for the country

                      By the way, you mentioned an interesting point.)

                      And what happened next?
                      What could disappoint Russians so much? Even if (in your opinion) propaganda, what gave rise to this?
                      Was it not an attempt by the West to annex (through the "European association", with the aim of subsequent admission to the EU), the state of Ukraine from the CIS, and the customs union? That, in principle, the West is doing well so far.
                    3. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 23 December 2020 14: 28
                      -2
                      Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                      By the way, you touched on an interesting point.

                      Most people (around the world) are conformists. They feel comfortable when their opinion coincides with the opinion of the majority. The authorities, elites (probably all over the world) use this, trying to create the illusion that their opinion is the opinion of the majority. In the West, this is more difficult to do because of the lack of a monopoly on the media. We now live in an interesting time when traditional media are giving way to the internet, which is very difficult to control.

                      Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                      Was this an attempt by the West to annex

                      After the annexation of Crimea, it sounds funny. I don’t think the majority of the population think in such categories
  • ODRAP Offline ODRAP
    ODRAP (Alexey) 17 December 2020 12: 28
    -2
    7%. From the amount of losses on Kovidlu. Losses from sanctions look pale against the background of an epidemic, don't they?
    Further. It is not specified how much Russia will lose against the background of gay-European losses. So, for comparison.
    Even further. Favorite habit - to distort. The EU did not “lose”, but received less. ”Completely different money.
    It's like I, walking through the woods, can find a hundred bucks, but I can not. But, I can also lose, my penknife ...
    Finally. The card is valid. Azerbaijani Karabakh, Ukrainian Crimea. bully
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 17 December 2020 13: 02
      -1
      Quote: ODRAP
      Further. It is not specified how much Russia will lose against the background of gay-European losses. So, for comparison.

      Well, it's not hard to compare the great Russian Federation with some kind of geyrope.

      https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5da419129a79472b97f4079d
      1. ODRAP Offline ODRAP
        ODRAP (Alexey) 17 December 2020 13: 38
        -3
        And there is nothing to compare. Rosstat will not give such a figure.
        And if he does, he will call it "negative profit" ®
        bully
  • Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 17 December 2020 15: 16
    -4
    First, they convince us that Europe has ALWAYS opposed Russia, now they prove that they have chosen this path NOW ... This path is SELF-destructive, but it is not clear why it (Europe) has not yet self-destroyed.
    Not constructive, not rational - I can agree, but why self-destructive?
    1. Dear sofa expert. 17 December 2020 18: 21
      +3
      why it (Europe) has not yet self-destructed.

      Well, at least, because before there was no such strong (economically) China. China is taking over the markets that Europe is so carelessly scattered about. It will be very difficult (impossible) to return what was lost.
      In addition, Russia itself is opening up more and more internal opportunities for serving its own market, and it also exports some of it.
  • cmonman Offline cmonman
    cmonman (Garik Mokin) 17 December 2020 18: 39
    -3
    ... although they know very well what happened in Ukraine in 2014. Then, thanks to the efforts of the United States and Europe, a coup d'etat was carried out in this country. As a result, ultranationalist forces and rabid Russophobes came to power in Kiev.

    The key is “well known ... a coup d'etat has taken place. As a result, ultranationalist forces and rabid Russophobes came to power in Kiev. " The Russian author knows this, but Europe doesn’t know the “Russophobia” of Ukraine, they know it from the cymbals. Europe knows that Ukraine overthrew the snickering boss and as a result of the hype Russia chopped off Crimea for itself. It is possible to calculate for a long time how much Europe has lost (Russia won territorially, but economically lost more than Europe in%), but the losses will disappear when Ukraine officially recognizes Crimea as Russian.
    And this will happen after Russia pays compensation for the squeezed business in Crimea. Europe doesn't give a damn about the seizure of territory, but the seizure of private business without compensation is robbery. This will never be forgiven, because private property is sacred.
    1. Dear sofa expert. 17 December 2020 20: 29
      +1
      private property is sacred.

      Even if this property belongs to the "snickering boss"?)
    2. ODRAP Offline ODRAP
      ODRAP (Alexey) 17 December 2020 23: 04
      -2
      Infa flashed that Naftogaz was filing a claim against Russia (not Gazprom \ Rosneft) for the property seized in Crimea (it did not participate in the referendum), in the amount of 18 billion d.
      The deed is true, they will win one hundred percent.
      Who will pay and with what is an interesting question.
      I think they won't take the land with the villages.
      1. cmonman Offline cmonman
        cmonman (Garik Mokin) 18 December 2020 03: 14
        -2
        Lawsuits are coming !!! Russia said it was not going to pay. Then - the expropriation of Russian-owned property abroad is haunting !!! All the people are having fun and rejoicing ... !!!
        rbc.ru

        Jan 10, 2020 - Switzerland did not agree with Russia's arguments during the appeal ... The court ordered Russia to pay $ 82 million to Ukrainian companies because of Crimea ... The Hague arbitration rejected Russia's claim in the claim of Privatbank Business ... four were given the final ...
  • slesarg65 Offline slesarg65
    slesarg65 (Igor Ivanov) 18 December 2020 08: 24
    +2
    All of Europe is unable to defeat Russia. Many have tried! Poles and Swedes received musals. Turks and Jews are wiser. So what does Gayrope want?
    1. ODRAP Offline ODRAP
      ODRAP (Alexey) 18 December 2020 16: 32
      0
      Well, Steinmeier alone did it.
      Can you repeat it?
      1. Dear sofa expert. 18 December 2020 22: 10
        +1
        Well, Steinmeier alone did it.

        Oh, where is this Steinmeier now?