How France began with the glorification of 12 SS soldiers, and ended up 12 killed in Charlie Hebdo


Europe's brain died. Did not know? It seems that something similar was recently stated by French President Macron, speaking about the "brain" of NATO. One could not even argue with this phrase of his. But one cannot fail to notice that this same brain died not only of NATO, but also of the entire EU leadership, and of Macron himself. And he died a long time ago. At this point, I'm just stating a medical fact.


Victims of multiculturalism


After several consecutive terrorist attacks in France, all the world media began vying with each other to discuss the horrors of terrorism, the conflict between Emmanuel Macron and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, as well as the cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed who provoked all this. Not for the first time, I note. I must say that on the "conscience" of these same cartoonists from the Parisian magazine "Charlie Hebdo" in total there are already more than twenty corpses. But ... apparently, for some, this is not an argument yet.

At the same time, from all sides in the European and our media there are talks about French national pride, about the values ​​of European civilization, as well as about how to fight for all this without fear of these very terrorists. Sounds like good. At first glance, one can even be glad that Europe has finally woken up, and, realizing the threat of Islamic terrorism in its own skin, remembered its pride and historical traditions. But if someone thinks that this is actually the case, then I have to disappoint you - this is not so. From the word at all. This is not an epiphany, this is the very death of the brain.

Let's see where exactly all this is happening, in what kind of Europe. This is happening in that very super-tolerant, multicultural and hospitable Europe, where the dignity of each person, his ideals and beliefs, including religious ones, is put above all else. In the same France, crosses are removed in schools so as not to offend the feelings of Muslim students, and in Denmark, traditional pork meatballs, and pork in general, are prohibited in canteens of educational institutions for the same reason. In Britain and Ireland, they went even further, there, to please the "guests" who have come in large numbers, even Christmas itself is already called "seasonal holidays" ...

Now, with all the evidence, only one thing can be stated - the West is dead. His body decomposes and is filled with scavengers, devouring his flesh that has not yet cooled down. They live on welfare; they live very well on welfare; they invite their friends and family to a place where they can live well on welfare. The fact that some Swedes or French still live in this blessed place due to a misunderstanding does not matter. Europeans no longer breed; they do not even mind against the tolerant use of their women for this - and in general, they can go to their America or somewhere else, to Africa, for example, to Antarctica, to Mars. The fact that such a strategy of "assimilation" will bring down the current prosperity of Europe does not bother migrants one iota. First, they don't think so far; secondly, even the local ruins will still be better than the abandoned hollow of the baobab tree.

But how did enlightened Europe come to life like this? After all, such changes do not occur in one hour, it seems, it was cooked over low heat. We will now consider this on the example of France. To understand such metamorphoses, you have to start from afar.

Heroes of France and soldiers of the SS


On the night of April 23-24, 1945, the commander of the 33rd (1st French) Waffen-SS Charlemagne Grenadier Division, SS Brigadenführer Gustav Krukenberg received an urgent telegram from the Berlin Reich Chancellery in Neustrelitz with the order to immediately arrive in Berlin to defend the capital of the Third Reich. In the ranks of the French division, which at the beginning of 1945 numbered about 7,5 thousand fighters, by that time there were no more than 1100 people. 330 volunteers volunteered to defend Berlin, of which a separate assault battalion was formed. On April 24, the battalion set off for Berlin in nine trucks. In the capital of the Reich, they managed to break through the northwestern suburbs in Nauen a few hours before the Soviet troops completely encircled the city.

It was these Frenchmen who distinguished themselves in the battles for Berlin, they were the last defenders of the Reich Chancellery, it was they who defended Hitler's bunker to the last. They fought fiercely, only in one day of fighting on April 28, out of a total of 108 Soviet tanks destroyed, the French “Charlemagne” destroyed 62. And SS Unterscharführer Eugene Valo was even presented to the highest Reich award Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross for the destruction of six of them, becoming one of the his last cavaliers (three days later he died from a bullet of a Soviet sniper, not having lived only a month before his 22nd birthday and a week before the end of the war). When on the morning of May 2, after the announcement of the surrender of the garrison, Soviet troops took the Reich Chancellery, there, except for 29 Frenchmen, no one was left alive.

In total, from September 1941, when the French Legion was transferred to the Eastern Front under German banners, until May 1945 through the legion, disbanded in 1944, and its successor, the 33rd Waffen-SS Grenadier Division, more than 10 thousand . the French. The remnants of the division surrendered to American troops in May 1945. It is with them that the story that I want to tell you is connected.

On May 6, 1945, in Bavaria, 30 km from the resort town of Bad Reichenhall, 12 Frenchmen who served in the Charlemagne division and who had just left the hospital after being wounded surrendered to the American troops without resistance. The next day it turned out that the city was being transferred to the zone of responsibility of French units from the division of General Leclerc.

Reference: General Philippe Leclerc, at the head of the 2nd French Armored Division, from July 31, 1944, together with the Allied forces, participated in the liberation of France, starting with their joint landing in Normandy.

When it became known to the surrendered SS men, they tried to escape, but were detained by French patrols. The general drove up to the place of transfer of prisoners of war. Upon learning that the soldiers in German uniform were French, he became indignant and began to insult them, calling them "boshes" and "traitors." When he said the words: "How could you Frenchmen wear a German uniform?" - one of the prisoners could not stand it and brazenly replied: "Just like you, general, you can wear an American one." This phrase became a death sentence for all of them.

After these words, Leclerc fell into a rage and ordered everyone to be shot. According to one version, the general gave such a cruel and contrary to the laws of the Geneva Convention, being under the painful impression of inspecting the death camp in Dachau, where, it seems, Leclerc was on the eve. Be that as it may, the next day, May 8, 12 French SS men were led to be shot. At their request, a Catholic priest spoke to them. After that, the condemned refused to blindfold or "humane" shooting them in the back. Just before the execution, they began to sing the Marseillaise and shout “Vive la France!”, Looking into the faces of the firing squad. Fierce by this behavior, the general gave the order not to bury the bodies, but to throw them in the clearing. Only three days later they were buried by the Americans.

In 1947, the Germans transferred the ashes of those executed to the monument. We managed to find out the names of several soldiers. They were knocked out on a granite slab, where one of the symbols of France "royal lily" is depicted, and the words "12 brave sons of France" are written. Here are the names of those whose documents were found:

SS Obersturmführer (chief lieutenant) Sergei Krotov (fr. Serg Krotoff), from a family of Russian emigrants.
Untersturmführer (lieutenant) SS Paul Briffaut (fr. Paul Briffaut).
Untersturmführer (Lieutenant) SS Robert Doffa (fr.Robert Doffat).
Grenadier (private) Jean Robert (fr. Jean Robert).
Grenadier (private) Raymond Pairas (fr. Raymond Pairas).
Jacques Ponnau, title not defined (person identified in 1979 from a photograph).

At home, these people are elevated to the pantheon of military glory and are equated with the Heroes of France. Any questions? They are worshiped on a par with the heroes of the "Normandie-Niemen". How can you both defend the right to publish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed and condemn the violence caused by it? These people have long had all the signs of mosaic schizophrenia and bipolar split consciousness. Since 1945, they have condemned Nazism, and since 1947 they have been worshiping its last defenders. This is no longer cured. The West is dead!
55 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 9 December 2020 13: 08
    -2
    Now, only one thing can be clearly stated - the West is dead. His body decomposes and is filled with scavengers devouring his flesh that has not yet cooled down.

    I will not tire of repeating.
    The authorship of the "Rotten West" tick is attributed to Stepan Petrovich Shevyrev. In his article in the journal Moskvityanin, he wrote

    In our sincere friendly and close relations with the West, we do not notice that we are dealing as if with a person who carries an evil, contagious disease, surrounded by an atmosphere of dangerous breath. We kiss with him, hug, share a meal of thought, drink a cup of feeling ... and do not notice the hidden poison in our careless communication, we do not smell in the fun of the feast of the future corpse, which he already smells of.

    It was 1841, almost 180 years ago, and everything was decaying. Is it already decomposed?
  2. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 9 December 2020 13: 28
    -5
    death camp in Dachau

    Dachau was not a death camp.

    The West is dead!

    It sounds beautiful to someone, but very controversial.
    1. boriz Offline boriz
      boriz (boriz) 9 December 2020 13: 55
      +5
      Dachau was not a death camp.

      Yeah, labor and rest camp. Pension.
      Have you completely lost your mind? Medical experiments on people were carried out in the wrong place?
      I understand it's hard to work on special documents, but are you able to master Vicky? This publication is not noticed in excessive sympathy for Russia and the USSR, so if this is already written there, then it is definitely true.

      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Эксперименты_нацистов_над_людьми
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 15: 16
        -6
        First, read what a "death camp" is on the same Wiki.
        1. Dear sofa expert. 10 December 2020 14: 25
          +2
          First, read what a "death camp" is on the same Wiki.

          How do you love all sorts of worthless "subtleties", just to blather something. Is it okay that 41500 people died there?
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 10 December 2020 15: 35
            -1
            How do you love all sorts of worthless "subtleties"

            No. I love the precise use of terms in accordance with the meaning that was originally laid in them.

            Is it okay that 41500 people died there?

            The investigated archival arrays allow us to say that through the Sevvostlag from 1932 to 1957. passed at least 800 thousand people, of whom died (died for various reasons, died as a result of industrial injuries and camp banditry, was shot) up to xnumx thousand

            Also a death camp?
  3. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 9 December 2020 13: 56
    -5
    How France began by glorifying 12 SS soldiers

    It is not clear when and how France began with the glorification of 12 SS soldiers. France has a shameful spot of her behavior during the Second World War, but certainly in France there was no, no, and it is not possible to glorify people who served on the side of the Germans, at least for a prosaic reason - historical dislike for the Germans.
  4. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 9 December 2020 13: 59
    -5
    At home, these people are elevated to the pantheon of military glory and are equated with the Heroes of France. Any questions?

    Of course have.

    Where did the author read on this tablet "The Twelve Brave Sons of France"?
    https://warspot.ru/129-la-guerre-comme-la-guerre

    Paul Briffaut and Robert Doffa in November, Sergei Krotov in December 1947 and Raymond Payrat in 1950 were convicted in absentia and sentenced to death by the Seine Department court for treason. However, formally, these fighters were innocent before France, since they fought only on the Eastern Front with the Soviet army. Nevertheless, they were shot without trial, and General Leclerc's actions were acquitted retroactively.

    Why does the author have everything in one place?
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Wolf) 9 December 2020 16: 53
      +3
      http://rus-orden.com/Mobile.aspx?doc=texts4/140202news.html
      1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 9 December 2020 17: 01
        -5
        The question is, where did you get the idea that

        At home, these people are elevated to the pantheon of military glory and are equated with the Heroes of France.

        - if the monument is located in Germany, erected by the Germans, and the inscription on it is in German?
        1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Wolf) 9 December 2020 17: 09
          +2
          personally interviewed the French, will such an answer suit? they are remembered and known, they condemn Leclerc, not them, violated the Geneva Convention in relation to combatants
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 18: 10
            -3
            personally interviewed the French, will such an answer suit?

            No, it won't. What was the general population, how was the sample calculated, the representatives of which groups were in this sample - these questions were worked out in your "survey"? Or did you just get involved in a discussion on some ultra-right site of Hitler's French fans and, based on the results of this "poll", build your opinion about all the French?
          2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 9 December 2020 20: 28
            -4
            Quote: Volkonsky
            personally interviewed the French, will such an answer suit?

            Knowing your commitment, such an answer will not suit you. Dear Cyril correctly pointed out, you could hardly make a representative sample.
            I also condemn Leclerc, he violated the Geneva Convention in relation to prisoners of war. But this does not mean that I condone Nazism. Everyone has the right to a fair trial with the provision of a defense lawyer, whether he is at least three times Chikatilo, or four times Dr. Mengele.
  5. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 9 December 2020 14: 04
    -5
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    At home, these people are elevated to the pantheon of military glory and are equated with the Heroes of France. Any questions?

    Of course have.

    Where did the author read on this tablet "The Twelve Brave Sons of France"?
    https://warspot.ru/129-la-guerre-comme-la-guerre

    Paul Briffaut and Robert Doffa in November, Sergei Krotov in December 1947 and Raymond Payrat in 1950 were convicted in absentia and sentenced to death by the Seine Department court for treason. However, formally, these fighters were innocent before France, since they fought only on the Eastern Front with the Soviet army. Nevertheless, they were shot without trial, and General Leclerc's actions were acquitted retroactively.

    Why does the author have everything in one place?

    This is taken from the Russian-language Wikipedia.
    The executed were buried by the Americans, the nameplate was hung up by the Germans 2 years later. The grave is located on the territory of Germany and this is an ordinary war grave, not a memorial. Why complicate a world that isn't easy anyway?
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 9 December 2020 15: 43
      +3
      Yes, it was wrong.


      Below is indeed the inscription "twelve brave sons of France, captives of the victor, who were executed without trial." The text is written in German. A grave in Germany.
  6. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 9 December 2020 14: 19
    -3
    Quote: boriz
    Dachau was not a death camp.

    Yeah, labor and rest camp. Pension.
    Have you completely lost your mind? Medical experiments on people were carried out in the wrong place?
    I understand it's hard to work on special documents, but are you able to master Vicky? This publication is not noticed in excessive sympathy for Russia and the USSR, so if this is already written there, then it is definitely true.

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Эксперименты_нацистов_над_людьми

    The concept of DEATH CAMP has a very specific content. If you are able to master the wiki, then read the article "death camp". Dachau is located in Germany and, according to the law, could not be a death camp, they were all outside the Reich. Chelmno, Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor, Majdanek, Auschwitz. You can include Jasenovac and Trostinets and several other small camps.
  7. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 9 December 2020 14: 20
    -4
    I understand working on special documents is hard, but Wiki

    I will surprise you, but I have the Dachau file cabinet.
  8. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 15: 09
    -4
    In the same France, crosses are removed in schools so as not to offend the feelings of Muslim students, and in Denmark traditional pork meatballs, and pork in general, are prohibited in canteens of educational institutions for the same reason. In Britain and Ireland, they went even further, there, in order to please the "guests" who have come in large numbers, even Christmas itself is already called "seasonal holidays" ...

    Volkonsky read Pishenkov's article a month ago and did not even bother to check the facts.

    And the facts are as follows:

    1. In French schools, it is forbidden to flaunt ANY religious symbols, be it crosses, hijabs, satanic pentagrams, etc. Not because "they do not want to offend Muslim students," but because the school is a state institution, and the state in France constitutionally secular, and the school is not a place to demonstrate their religious preferences.

    2. In Denmark, no one banned pork meatballs - the authorities of the Randers commune voted to include meatballs in the school menu. This "meatball war" was still 4 years ago, but the author seems to have stopped at just that time. And in the yard, meanwhile, 2020.

    A similar fake is the news about the ban on pork sausages in Germany - here you can read about it in detail:

    https://www.dw.com/ru/утка-про-свинину-или-немецким-сосискам-запрет-не-грозит/a-19094952

    3. Christmas is called a seasonal holiday for a simple reason - because it is a seasonal holiday, that is, tied to a specific time of the year. There is no question of any attempt to please the "come in large numbers".

    The same Pishenkov also had "news" that in Europe, allegedly because of immigrants, Christmas symbols are banned at fairs - in particular, there were initiatives to remove the figure of Santa Claus.

    And this is really so, only the authors of this initiative were ... Catholic traditionalists, who openly stated that the image of Santa Claus was commercialized by the Coca-Cola company in its advertising and discredited as a religious Christmas symbol. Again, there is no question of any attempt to "appease Muslims".

    Based on how the author is "friends" with such an obligatory thing as fact-check, one can judge the quality of the rest of the article.
  9. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 9 December 2020 15: 13
    +3
    I constantly write and say that Europe hates Russia at the genetic level. And everyone who fought with Russia and killed our people, they will never, for Europe, be criminals, but only heroes and martyrs. If Putin has already declared that they will die, then they need to be "put right" to the end. A country that commits aggression or provides territory for aggression must cease to exist as a nation. No mercy! And everyone should know this!
  10. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 17: 02
    -4
    Now, only one thing can be clearly stated - the West is dead. His body decomposes and is filled with scavengers devouring his flesh that has not yet cooled down. They live on welfare; they live very well on welfare; they invite their friends and family to a place where they can live well on welfare.

    The author would first take the trouble to find out how, under what conditions and when benefits are given to immigrants in Western Europe.

    And just for comparison, I would have learned the same thing in Russia. Hint - very similar :)

    The fact that some Swedes or French still live in this blessed place due to a misunderstanding does not matter. Europeans no longer breed

    Neurons in the author's brain "do not multiply", and in Europe the Caucasian population is 80-90% of the total population.

    The fact that such a strategy of "assimilation" will bring down the current prosperity of Europe does not bother migrants one iota. First, they don't think so far; secondly, even the local ruins will still be better, rather than an abandoned baobab tree.

    The most paradoxical is that the author, angrily condemning the alleged veneration of the Nazis in Europe, in his article descends to the rhetoric characteristic of these very Nazis :) Well, at least he did not write about "intercourse with monkeys", and that is good :)
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Wolf) 9 December 2020 17: 16
      +3
      It is very difficult for gays and lesbians to reproduce, didn't you know? heard about childfree movement? France already has entire cities where the majority of the population is migrants - the suburbs of Paris and Marseille
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 17: 49
        -3
        No more than 5-7% of the total population of gay people - did you know? :) In addition, they exist both among Europeans and among immigrants, because orientation does not depend on religion. And, by the way, it does not affect the ability to have children either - if a non-traditional orientation wants to “continue the race,” he can safely do it both naturally and artificially.

        heard about childfree movement?

        I heard, and what?) They are also in Russia - according to a survey by VTsIOM in 2018, the number of childfree in our country is 6%.

        in France already there are whole citieswhere the majority of the population are migrants - suburbs Paris and Marseille

        So cities or suburbs?) Maybe we turn to statistics? Paris:

        The total population of Paris is 2,2 million. Of these, foreigners (generally from all countries, including European, Russia, etc.) - 330 thousand.

        It is not clear what "the majority of the population of Paris", consisting of foreigners, is meant.

        However, you, of course, do not take into account that Paris and Marseille are the two largest cities, where the concentration of foreigners, by definition, will be higher than in the country as a whole. Exactly the same indicators will be in other large cities of the world - in Moscow, for example, 85% are ethnic Russians, the rest are newcomers.
        1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Wolf) 9 December 2020 17: 56
          +4
          among white Christians the percentage of gays and lesbians reaches 12%, among the Muslim population it fluctuates around 2% - faith does not allow! the trend is indicated - whites are dying out, everything else is sophistry
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 18: 07
            -2
            among white Christians, the percentage of gays and lesbians reaches 12%, among the Muslim population it fluctuates around 2%

            Where does this data come from? And how were they calculated?

            - faith does not allow!

            Not this way. Faith does not allow to speak openly about one's orientation - this is not at all the same as "not being" a non-traditional orientation. In the Muslim community, where methods of direct physical violence against "non-traditional" ones operate, naturally not every one of them will recognize himself as such.
          2. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 18: 49
            -3
            And, about how the Islamic faith allegedly "does not allow" to enter into same-sex relationships, I recommend learning in the context of the Afghan-Pakistani custom of "bacha-bazi", Persian homoerotic poetry, the practice of serving male clients in Turkish hammams. You will learn a lot of interesting things :)
            1. Bakht Offline Bakht
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 December 2020 20: 24
              +4
              In Islam, one punishment is imposed for sodomy - death. Religion and customs are not the same
              1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 20: 31
                -3
                Nevertheless, for some reason, religion allowed and allows these customs. These customs, by the way, are not one hundred years old.
                1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                  Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 December 2020 20: 37
                  +5
                  Religion does NOT allow these customs. In Judaism, Christianity and Islam, sodomy is one of the deadly sins. The difference in Islam is that in Islam, punishment is stoning.

                  And the fact that sodomy exists is not related to religion. After all, murder is also one of the sins, but people kill.

                  The conversation began with a percentage. If a crime is liable to death, then the proportion of criminals is much lower. See the list of countries where death is laid for sodomy. These are Muslim countries. There are no Christian ones on this list
                  1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                    Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 20: 47
                    -2
                    Religion does NOT allow these customs. In Judaism, Christianity and Islam, sodomy is one of the deadly sins. The difference in Islam is that in Islam, punishment is stoning.

                    Don't confuse what religion declares with what actually happens. In reality, some people professing these religions practice "sodomy". Both of these phenomena coexist quite well in the same people.

                    And the fact that sodomy exists is not related to religion.

                    What I was talking about.

                    The conversation began with a percentage. If a crime is liable to death, then the proportion of criminals is much lower.

                    The percentage of people who are attracted to members of the same sex is the same in Christian countries and in Muslim countries - 5-7%.

                    The only difference is that in Christian countries this is not followed by "stoning", so representatives of these countries are more likely to admit their orientation than representatives of Muslim countries. And naturally, this affects the survey data.
                    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 December 2020 20: 51
                      +4
                      You wrote

                      Islamic faith allegedly "does not allow"

                      Don't write a word "supposedly", there would be no point of dispute. This is the second time we have said that sodomy is allowed in Islam. This is not true
                      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 20: 52
                        -2
                        I wrote that the Islamic faith does not prevent some of the bearers of this faith from engaging in "sodomy." I did not say anything about what this faith declares.
                    2. Bakht Offline Bakht
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 December 2020 20: 52
                      +4
                      representatives of these countries are more likely to admit their orientation

                      This is precisely the sign of decay and death.
                      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 20: 53
                        -2
                        This is precisely the sign of decay and death.

                        No, this is a sign that in these countries, a natural phenomenon is treated normally.
                      2. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 December 2020 21: 03
                        +4
                        To commit a crime, especially against God, is prohibited by ANY religion. In Islam, this percentage is lower. It is a fact. But he is unpleasant to you and you do not want to admit him.
                        The direction of your statements is quite definite. And, as I said, the second time.
                        In the end, the Lord burned down two cities, and he is not afraid to burn part of the world.

                        This phenomenon is unnatural. It is in relation to this phenomenon that our contradiction manifests itself. A person who claims that sodomy is naturally in general has no right to talk about religion.

                        The Apostle Paul in the Epistle to the Corinthians said that a person can do such things, but the path to God is forbidden to him. It is as punishment for the absence of God in the soul that the Lord moves the wicked to such a mortal sin
                      3. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 21: 10
                        -2
                        In Islam, this percentage is lower. It is a fact. But he is unpleasant to you and you do not want to recognize him.

                        Where is the confirmation of this "fact"? There is evidence that bacha-bazi blooms and smells in Muslim Afghanistan and Pakistan.

                        This phenomenon is unnatural.

                        Tell that to the XNUMX species of animals (including great apes and humans) that have same-sex contact.

                        A person who claims that sodomy is naturally in general has no right to talk about religion.

                        Why don't I have the right to talk about religion? I have the constitutional right to speak on any topic.

                        The Apostle Paul in the Epistle to the Corinthians said that a person can do such things, but the path to God is forbidden to him. It is as punishment for the absence of God in the soul that the Lord moves the wicked to such a mortal sin

                        The words of the Apostle Paul have nothing to do with the subject under discussion.
                      4. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
                        akarfoxhound 9 December 2020 22: 18
                        0
                        So what if this smokiness is scarcely manifested among those living on the planet - does not mean that it is natural, and therefore normal, it is a disturbed psyche, and in people it is also a perversion of the soul in addition.
                        If you do like animals normally, well, then eat your children, is this also found in animals ?! Can you guess a bunch in the central square of your city, is it natural for animals ?! Would you like to sleep with your mother or daughter in passing? It is even more common in the animal kingdom than rocexualism. Episodes from "Animal World" and "AnРl" continue? This is normal for a person, he does not differ from an animal according to your logic ?! Well, go ahead and with the song! good
                      5. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 22: 31
                        -2
                        So what if this smokiness is scarce in people living on the planet?

                        It manifests itself all the time.

                        doesn’t mean it’s natural

                        Just means. Any phenomenon that occurs in nature is called natural. Same-sex relationships occur in nature - therefore, they are natural.

                        this is a disturbed psyche

                        Same-sex orientation has long been excluded from the international list of diseases.

                        If you do like animals normally, well, then eat your children, is this also found in animals ?! Can you guess a bunch in the central square of your city, is it natural for animals ?! Would you like to sleep with your mother or daughter in passing?

                        So, dear, just like you opponents of same-sex relationships are the first to appeal to their "unnaturalness" :) That is, they use the "naturalness" of different-sex relationships as an argument against same-sex relationships.

                        You will decide in your party there - either you judge the issue from the standpoint of "naturalness / unnaturalness", but then such things as condoms, medicine, agriculture, and industry are considered unnatural. Or you are looking for another counterargument.

                        And I just speak in terms that you understand.
                  2. Cyril Offline Cyril
                    Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 22: 16
                    -2
                    In the end, the Lord burned down two cities, and he is not afraid to burn part of the world.

                    Don't you think that to use as an argument stories about a creature whose existence is not confirmed by anything - to put it mildly, doubtful?)
                2. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
                  akarfoxhound 9 December 2020 22: 05
                  +1
                  Under today's nasty concept "tolerance" and mean perversions to call "a natural phenomenon." A fan of overton windows?
                3. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 22: 08
                  -2
                  perversions

                  And who determines what to call "perversion" and what not to call? You? Excuse me, but who are you?
                4. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
                  akarfoxhound 9 December 2020 22: 30
                  0
                  I seem to be a man after all. Well, your path looks like - Forward, although not correctly - back to the animal kingdom!
                5. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 22: 36
                  -2
                  I seem to be a man after all.

                  And how does your Homo Sapiens make you a moral authority?
                6. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
                  akarfoxhound 10 December 2020 22: 41
                  +1
                  By the moral authority of Homo Sapiens - Homo sapiens over those rolling downward in full confidence of "naturalness" in reverse oblique evolution ???
                  When you reach the primates, ask right after the moral, here you will find out the difference, you will not understand, then further down. Trilobites had morals - heaps !!! wink
                7. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) 12 December 2020 12: 21
                  -1
                  That is, you are not able to answer my simple question. Q.E.D.

                  And so yes, trilobites have more moral than you.
                8. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
                  akarfoxhound 16 December 2020 23: 10
                  0
                  Answer the incompatible question? rnomes and trilobites are united in claims for morality and you proved something demandingly there? This is not a Reporter, this is a psychiatrist! wassat

                  - Doctor, the problem, the guys are drawn, maybe I'm gay?
                  - No, what are you! You are not gay. The only gay person I know is the great French physicist Gay Lussac. And you my friend is a simple, banal homosexual.

                  I, like any reasonable person, am not interested in the opinion of an adherent of the "normality of active life of gomes", as well as his propaganda and philosophy of "morality of natural behavior" of neither homosexuals, nor pedophiles, nor necrophiles, nor zoophiles, nor sadists, nor cannibals and other abominations ... So - what are you demanding to prove there? ... demand from the brothers in mind of the trilobites in moments of "natural thrust"
                  Ugh, disgusting!
  • Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 9 December 2020 21: 09
    -1
    Quote: Bakht
    To commit a crime, especially against God, is prohibited by ANY religion. In Islam, this percentage is lower. It is a fact. But he is unpleasant to you and you do not want to admit him.
    The direction of your statements is quite definite. And, as I said, the second time.
    In the end, the Lord burned down two cities, and he is not afraid to burn part of the world.

    This phenomenon is unnatural. It is in relation to this phenomenon that our contradiction manifests itself. A person who claims that sodomy is naturally in general has no right to talk about religion.

    The Apostle Paul in the Epistle to the Corinthians said that a person can do such things, but the path to God is forbidden to him. It is as punishment for the absence of God in the soul that the Lord moves the wicked to such a mortal sin

    1. There is no god.
    2. Same-sex orientation is a given, it is neither good nor bad.
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 December 2020 21: 15
      +4
      There is no god. But there is a moral law within us.
      Same sex love exists and it is very bad. From my point of view.
      From the point of view of Moses, Christ and Muhammad, the Kingdom of God is ordered to you
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 21: 51
        -3
        But there is a moral law within us.

        Morality is a very, very relative concept. It is different for everyone.

        Same sex love exists and it is very bad. From my point of view.

        Nobody forbids you not to engage in it or to consider it sinful. But your opinion is just your opinion.
  • Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 9 December 2020 21: 24
    -1
    Quote: Bakht
    There is no god. But there is a moral law within us.
    Same sex love exists and it is very bad. From my point of view.
    From the point of view of Moses, Christ and Muhammad, the Kingdom of God is ordered to you

    So I do not claim to be a kingdom that does not exist.
    According to your criteria, it is bad when a different orientation. It's bad when a different skin color, a different god, a different culture.
    For me, the moral code inside us does not at all imply a god who determines it.
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 December 2020 22: 37
      +3
      Nature has endowed all living beings with some specific properties. One of them is heterosexual. Sodomy has always been viewed as a deviation. Disease. Animals were cited here. Bad example. In the animal kingdom, this is also considered a deviation. Deviation in the brains. Too specific topic and I don't like it at all.
      The conversation began with religion. Absolute prohibition in all religions. The fact that someone is now revising the provisions does not make their statements true. Your generalization about skin color, beliefs, I do not accept. In this case, we are talking about a deviation from natural attitudes. Someone talks about God, someone about nature. Never mind. There are biological markers. Everything that differs from them dies out. From the point of view of nature (the Creator), same-sex relationships are not normal. If you want to consider them normal - your business. I focus on chromosomes and the possibility of continuation of the species. For same-sex relationships, this opportunity is zero. Absolute zero. So this is not normal.

      For me, the moral code inside us does not at all imply a god who determines it.

      I'm an atheist. But God is inside. I just call it a moral code. Or principles. I have never been to a mosque, or a church, or a synagogue. I believe in science and knowledge. And morality. Each of us has these principles. Good or bad the person chooses. So from my point of view, morality and God are inseparable. I read the Bible and the Koran (honestly speaking the Koran with difficulty). There is nothing that I would oppose. And everywhere same-sex relationships are prohibited
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 23: 04
        -2
        Let me answer? :) The points:

        Nature has endowed all living beings with some specific properties. One of them is heterosexual.

        Nature has not rewarded anyone with anything, because nature is not a person. Sexuality is not a specific feature.

        Sodomy has always been viewed as a deviation. Disease.

        As a deviation, yes. Same sex orientation is still considered a deviation. But as a disease - no, it is not considered. Because the term disease has a very specific definition, namely:

        Disease is a specific biological process that occurs in the human body as a result of the interaction of the latter with the environment and leads to violation or complete cessation of his life.
        The main feature that qualitatively distinguishes disease processes from physiological ones is the presence of a threat to normal human life.

        Based on this definition, same-sex orientation is not a disease, since it does not lead to disruption or complete cessation of the body's vital activity and does not pose a threat to this vital activity.

        Animals were cited here. Bad example. In the animal kingdom, this is also considered a deviation. Deviation in the brains.

        This is no more of a deviation than, say, the creation of monogamous pairs among members of a species where polygamy is more common.

        The conversation began with religion. Absolute prohibition in all religions. The fact that someone is now revising the provisions does not make their statements true.

        Neither does the "antiquity" of religious prohibitions make these religious prohibitions true.

        If we talk about religious prohibitions, then in all three Abrahamic religions sin and perversion are considered "the sin of Onan", premarital sexual intercourse, the use of contraception. Do you also consider these phenomena to be sinful and "unnatural deviations"?

        In this case, we are talking about a deviation from natural attitudes.

        If you have already started talking about "natural attitudes", then be consistent. Let's say give up medicine that gives a chance to survive and give offspring to sick and weak individuals. This, after all, directly contradicts evolution, increases the percentage of defective genes in the population's gene pool. Or, say, give up contraception because they prevent reproduction. That also contradicts "natural attitudes".

        I focus on chromosomes and the possibility of continuation of the species. In same-sex relationships, this opportunity is zero. Absolute zero. So this is not normal.

        Lying. People with same sex orientation are capable of fertilization and childbirth to the same extent as people with dual sex orientation.

        I believe in science and knowledge.

        It's strange that you somehow believe in them if you consider same-sex orientation a disease, while modern science does not consider it a disease :)
  • Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 9 December 2020 23: 49
    -1
    And if the author so zealously and pathetically exposes the "schizophrenia of Europeans", then does he as zealously expose the "schizophrenia of Moscow", which quite recently at the official level (at the level of the Foreign Minister, to be precise) received a delegation of deputies from the German party "Alternative for Germany "? Let me remind you that this party and its individual representatives were noted, in particular, with the following statements and initiatives:

    - in 2017, the head of AfD said that “the Germans should be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in the First and Second world wars";

    - in October 2020, at the vote of the Bundestag on the opening of a memorial center in Berlin in memory of victims of the Nazis in Eastern Europe and the USSR (both the CDU, the Social Democrats, and the "greens" voted for this project), the AfD deputies called this project a "mania of memories", and as an alternative they proposed a memorial "German victims of World War II";

    - on the 75th anniversary of the East Prussian operation, the AfD faction noted in its social media accounts: “75 years ago, 2,5 million Germans fled in front of the advancing Red Army - taken by surprise, loading only the bare essentials into carts and carts in a 20-degree frost. Today we remember the victims of flight and exile»

    What is most interesting is that the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs itself, in its reports on "attempts to rehabilitate Nazism in Europe," cheated "Alternative for Germany" in the tail and in the mane for such initiatives and statements. And then there is such a sudden cordiality and warmth. What is the reason for such a sharp turn? And the reason is in the topics that were touched upon at this meeting - including: 1) the restart of German-Russian relations, 2) the lifting of sanctions against Russia, 3) the completion of the construction of the Nord Stream-2 gas pipeline.

    Did you discuss at this meeting, to put it mildly, the ambiguous statements of the AfD members regarding the Second World War? The members of the German delegation replied that no, they did not touch.

    So what's with schizophrenia, author? Where is righteous anger, where is emotional rebuke, where are your "diagnoses"? :)
  • Dmitry S. Offline Dmitry S.
    Dmitry S. (Dmitry Sanin) 10 December 2020 05: 34
    +1
    Good day to all commentators! The article is, of course, made of disgusting, crooked and in the style of false conclusions and generalizations - the author regularly uses the latter techniques.
    As far as I remember, the courage of those who accept death has always earned respect from the executioners - and here they are also without trial, soldiers, shot. So they wrote: brave. I don't see the heroization of Nazism here, at all.
    But, I see that the author is not always friendly with logic:

    the body decays and is filled with scavengers, devouring its flesh that has not yet cooled down

    If the body decomposes, then it has cooled down long ago, and pyrolysis, high-temperature decomposition, takes place without the participation of scavengers, which do not fill the bodies, by the way.
    You can "not one iota" move, but not "not strain."
    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 10 December 2020 12: 58
      -2
      The author's knowledge in the terms he uses can be judged at least by the pearl "bipolar split consciousness" :)
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 10 December 2020 18: 43
    -2
    Quote: AlexZN
    I understand working on special documents is hard, but Wiki

    I will surprise you, but I have the Dachau file cabinet.

    It's funny, I stated a FACT that I can prove to anyone who wants to, but people rushed to minus.