What showed Russia the crushing defeat of Karabakh


So it happened. Armenia failed to withstand the combined military power of Azerbaijan and Turkey and, having held out for just over a month, was forced to surrender in Nagorno-Karabakh on humiliating terms. This will have the most difficult consequences for Yerevan, the entire Transcaucasia as a whole and Russia, since it opens wide doors to the Central Asian region for Turkey, which will introduce its peacekeepers into the territory of the unfinished republic, which implies the appearance of a military base.


Armenia unexpectedly suffered a great defeat, which should serve as a lesson for those who frivolously rest on the laurels of the winners of previous generations. Meanwhile, despite the surprise, the defeat was largely expected due to the incomparability of the military potential of Yerevan and Baku. Azerbaijan has a stronger the economy, he has much more mobilization and financial resources. For many years, Baku has been investing petrodollars in retraining and re-equipping the army with the most modern weapons. Turkey openly sided with President Aliyev, while Russia chose not to interfere, leaving Armenia to fight alone. Despite this, our soldiers still died, killed by the Azerbaijani military at the end of the conflict.

One of the main reasons for Baku's victory was its dominance in the air. At the same time, conventional aviation was hardly ever used, despite the fact that the belligerents had their own air forces. This was due to the fact that both Azerbaijan and Armenia are armed with air defense systems of Russian origin, various modifications of the S-300 air defense system. If enemy fighters and bombers appeared in Nagorno-Karabakh, they would be quickly shot down. However, Azerbaijan had a total advantage in the air thanks to unmanned aircraft of Turkish and Israeli production, in front of which the "Favorites" were powerless. Why did this happen?

The real "heroes of the war" for Karabakh turned out to be shock UAVs and loitering ammunition. There is a video on the network in which the Armenian S-300PS air defense missile system is destroyed, most likely, by the Israeli IAI Harop patrolling ammunition. When a target is detected, it turns into a homing kamikaze drone, designed primarily to combat air defense systems. According to the statement of President Aliyev, the Azerbaijani army has six "Favorites":

Our drones destroy Armenian tanks and other military machinery... So far, we have destroyed more than 230 tanks, six S-300 air defense systems, and hundreds of armored vehicles.

It is quite possible that this is indeed the case. Armenia has the S-300PS air defense system of the 1982 model. They were created against traditional combat aircraft, but they are ineffective against modern highly maneuverable strike UAVs. In addition, air defense systems need protection of short-range air defense systems like Pantsir-S1. They also have a number of problems with the presence of a blind spot, which the Turks in Syria and Libya actively used, but in their absence, the outdated S-300 were much more vulnerable. At the same time, both Baku and Ankara had an excellent opportunity to study in detail the weaknesses of Russian weapons. Azerbaijan acquired two S-300PMU-2 divisions from the Kremlin, and Turkey acquired the most modern S-400 divisions. Undoubtedly, the knowledge of the characteristics of the domestic air defense was used in planning the operation against Nagorno-Karabakh.

The appearance on the battlefield of such weapons is a major challenge for Russia. The available air defense systems were initially created against other targets, therefore they need modernization, especially if we take into account Ukraine's interest in unmanned aircraft. The emergence of mobile air defense systems, which will become specialized "drone killers", capable of repelling massive attacks of entire swarms of UAVs, is needed.
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  1. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 10 November 2020 14: 30
    +2
    capable of repelling massive attacks of entire swarms of UAVs.

    For such a reflection, the concept of "Buk" is quite suitable, only cheaper, when a charge flies into such a swarm and bursts into erase small fragments in different directions.
    1. Sergey Sfiedu Offline Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu (Sergey Sfyedu) 10 November 2020 14: 51
      +4
      UAVs do not fly in dense swarms. It was not possible to shoot down several UAVs with one SAM. And given the small size and low radio contrast of modern UAVs, it's not at all a fact that it will be possible to shoot down.
      1. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
        Bulanov (Vladimir) 10 November 2020 16: 45
        0
        Why then do they write about attacks by drone swarms?
        1. Ivan Ivanov_20 Offline Ivan Ivanov_20
          Ivan Ivanov_20 (Ivan Ivanov) 11 November 2020 02: 19
          +2
          Because a swarm is not a close heap, but a lot and at the same time ...
        2. Yarpen Offline Yarpen
          Yarpen (Maksim) 12 November 2020 21: 03
          0
          Because journalists are rams, as a rule, and are chasing a big word
  2. steelmaker Online steelmaker
    steelmaker 10 November 2020 14: 37
    +2
    I believe that for our military, this is not a problem. The Turks in Syria started this way with their UAVs, but ours quickly realized. Can't hear it now. The author is right to raise this issue. Better to play it safe than not to evaluate the enemy.
    1. Sergey Sfiedu Offline Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu (Sergey Sfyedu) 10 November 2020 14: 54
      -4
      There was no such massive use of drones in Syria.
      1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
        sgrabik (Sergei) 11 November 2020 16: 18
        +2
        UAVs there are constantly used against our military grouping, and especially against the Khmeimim airbase, attempts to strike our units and units in Syria are still continuing.
        1. Gervkr Offline Gervkr
          Gervkr (German Kryuchkov) 12 November 2020 13: 46
          +3
          Terrorists sent drones to the Khmeimim airbase, and these handicraft drones and the ammunition attached to them, ordinary hand grenades. And now imagine if the automated loitering ammunition Harpy and Harop with a warhead capacity of 300 kg of TNT equivalent each, and the Anka and Bayraktar TB2 drones, each carries 2 ATGMs on the MAM-L Roketsan wing with laser targeting, are used. Has anyone studied the strategy of such a fight? I read somewhere that an exercise was invented for our soldiers to combat the UAV, the UAV is flying with a tied rope on which balloons are fixed. And the balls are an imitation of a swarm of UAVs. The task of the soldier is to hit the balloons from the machine! What's this? Tactics? And apparently the Armenians were advised to do this, there were photos of military personnel shooting from machine guns at UAVs, the sad result of such tactics is known in the networks. So far we have only one answer - EW Krasukha. But this is not enough. 20 ton colossus at KAMAZ. It still needs to be delivered to the desired point and there to have time to deploy, and how to protect the equipment and manpower of the units on the march? So far, our defense industry and military specialists have conceptually failed, hence the advice from a hangover, to shoot at balloons. The Bayraktar drone aims ammunition at a target from a height, or from a distance to the target, from a low altitude of 8 km. What are the chances of a military unit to survive with regular successful training in shooting balloons? So the Armenians thought they would have time ...
          1. Yarpen Offline Yarpen
            Yarpen (Maksim) 12 November 2020 17: 32
            +1
            What are you talking about? Apart from the main air defense in the states of motorized rifle brigades, we have 4 TORs per battalion group (12 units per air defense unit). And not like here, the lonely one was running discharged, but in a much more serious performance. Which maneuverable and high-speed warheads take with a smaller EPR by the way.

            All these beautiful letters of yours were suppressed in Idlib and Libya by a very modest set of means. How did the undersultan beat the Syrians here for several days and crucified? And we'll take all of Idlib and move on. As a result, I washed my face and left Serakib. a couple of hundred coffins were attributed to the "Syrians". So WE saw nothing particularly new.

            For 25 years, the Armenians generally do not know what they were doing, but judging by the fact that Karabakh was never recognized, they were not particularly ready to fight for it. Let their leadership be asked questions about the taste and relative benefits of fables. And as for the means "for the poor" - igiloids, greens and Houthis have somehow learned to defend themselves from such garbage, you will smoke figs. Slippers are probably brushed aside.
    2. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 10 November 2020 15: 24
      -5
      Quote: steel maker
      I believe that for our military, this is not a problem.

      You think it is wrong - the problem for the Russian military is huge because they cannot oppose the enemy's modern strike drones with anything effective, and the Russians do not have their own strike unmanned aircraft and it will not appear very soon.
      1. Vsevolod Averkeev (Vsevolod Averkeev) 11 November 2020 10: 16
        +8
        Interesting stuff in Asia Times.
        Allegedly, the Krasukha-4 complex transferred to the base in Gyumri has shot down 9 different UAVs since the beginning of the conflict, including Bayraktars.
      2. Vsevolod Averkeev (Vsevolod Averkeev) 11 November 2020 11: 40
        +6
        The UAE has supplied the Army of Haftar with Pantsir 1SE anti-aircraft systems. An export version of the Russian air defense missile system of the 2005 model, based on the chassis of the German company "MAN". "Armor" started very well, in a day shot down two modern NATO UAVs in November 2019: the MQ-9 Reaper, owned by the US Air Force and its twin brother, the Italian MQ -9A Predator-B.
        As of today, according to the Lostarmour website, there are nineteen Bayraktars, three Anka-Ss and several homemade drones from PNS workshops in Tripoli for clear confirmation with photos and geolocation. According to various unconfirmed reports, the Turks lost up to 33 shock and reconnaissance UAVs in these battles. Most of them became victims of the "Shell" fire
        But, perhaps most importantly, they had to act in the face of powerful opposition from modern electronic warfare and electronic reconnaissance systems deployed on Turkish frigates off the coast of Libya.
        1. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) 12 November 2020 04: 55
          -1
          Quote: Vsevolod Averkeev
          According to various unconfirmed reports, the Turks lost up to 33 shock and reconnaissance UAVs in these battles. Most of them became victims of the "Shell" fire

          Here is the key point "according to unconfirmed reports".
        2. Gervkr Offline Gervkr
          Gervkr (German Kryuchkov) 12 November 2020 14: 12
          0
          The biggest lie is statistics. Turn it as you want. It was the UAVs of Turkish production that threw Haftar's army away from Tripoli. As a matter of fact, the Pantsiri may have started well, but it turned out at the exit, as always.
      3. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
        sgrabik (Sergei) 11 November 2020 16: 23
        +2
        Bindyuzhnik (Miron), what absurd nonsense, you don't need to pass off what you wish for reality, it looks stupid, do not forget that Russia is far from a banana republic and its scientific and technical potential is at least in no way inferior to either Turkish or Israeli.
        1. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) 12 November 2020 05: 01
          +2
          Quote: sgrabik
          scientific and technical potential is at least in no way inferior to either Turkish or Israeli.

          Your commentary is reminiscent of the Islamic creed - "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet." Keep believing and see what kind of shock UAVs massively appear in the Russian military in the near future.
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      6. Gervkr Offline Gervkr
        Gervkr (German Kryuchkov) 12 November 2020 14: 08
        +1
        Again a question in the concept of an answer. Our Ministry of Defense has ordered the concept of the UAV at the Sukhoi Design Bureau. Those, without hesitation, took the blueprints of one of the DRYERS, and converted it into a strike-type UAV and named it Hunter. The weight of the product is not less than 10 tons and the cost for a manned fighter.
      7. Yarpen Offline Yarpen
        Yarpen (Maksim) 12 November 2020 17: 43
        +1
        Yeah, therefore, with rather modest forces involved, Erdogan wiped himself out in Idlib with his ankas and bayraktar, sending home in an order of coffins. And they repeated it in Libya. And there, in fact, there was almost no air defense. In the Russian Federation itself, only direct cover for the troops - TORs, a battery per battalion group normally (zrdn - 12 units in the ISBR), not counting the main air defense. Forward!

        (I thought that with the word TOP, post the video as a lonely discharged TOP (not in the army configuration they drove it), so it is not necessary, thanks, everyone has seen)
      8. Semens Offline Semens
        Semens (Semen) 12 November 2020 18: 36
        +1
        The RF Armed Forces will hit the bases and factories where these UAVs are located and / or produce, will use electronic countermeasures, microwave, etc., mm radars see flies, and not just flying chamber pots stuffed with explosives ... you have to worry a lot about the RF Armed Forces ... Much of what is in the RF army is not sold even to the allies ...
    3. neri73-r Offline neri73-r
      neri73-r 11 November 2020 17: 13
      +2
      Quote: steel maker
      I believe that for our military, this is not a problem. The Turks in Syria started this way with their UAVs, but ours quickly realized. Can't hear it now. The author is right to raise this issue. Better to play it safe than not to evaluate the enemy.

      I agree that it will be another war with us. Unmanned aerial vehicles are dangerous to us, where there is no our full-fledged air defense, electronic warfare and electronic warfare. For example, in conflicts of low intensity. And if the war is against the same Turkey, then we have weapons that are used throughout the depth of the theater of operations! And the command and control centers of troops in general and, in particular, the command centers of the UAV (as well as the places of their storage, basing and production) will be destroyed in the first place! So the UAV is not a panacea for them and not such a danger for us.
  3. Bakht Offline Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 10 November 2020 14: 43
    -3
    since it opens wide the doors to the region of Central Asia for Turkey, which will introduce its peacekeepers into the territory of the unfinished republic, which implies the appearance of a military base.

    Earlier you wrote inadequate analytics. And now you are writing an outright lie.

    Zakharova stated that only Russian peacekeepers will be in Karabakh

    https://ria.ru/20201110/karabakh-1583884569.html
    1. Sergey Sfiedu Offline Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu (Sergey Sfyedu) 10 November 2020 14: 53
      +6
      Zakharova has a lot to say. But who will believe her? As peacekeepers or not as peacekeepers, the Turks will not leave Azerbaijan.
      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 10 November 2020 14: 55
        -1
        Almost 2000 servicemen, 90 armored personnel carriers. All 15 separate brigade. This is from the Russian side. And what about Turkey? Can you tell me?
        What it means

        Turks will not leave Azerbaijan

        There are no Turkish bases here, no Turkish military contingent.
        Here for a month and a half they talk about "Erdogan's provocation" and about Azerbaijan as a vassal. What do we have left? A clear victory for Russian diplomacy.
        1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
          Marzhecki (Sergei) 11 November 2020 07: 38
          0
          Quote: Bakht
          Turks will not leave Azerbaijan
          There are no Turkish bases here, no Turkish military contingent.

          This means that they will come and not go.
          1. Yarpen Offline Yarpen
            Yarpen (Maksim) 12 November 2020 17: 48
            +1
            maybe they will come to the Azeri zone, to the one that we have outlined for ourselves - it is unlikely. Here who calls what Karabakh, the initial territory or the Azeri regions seized in the first war.
        2. Gervkr Offline Gervkr
          Gervkr (German Kryuchkov) 12 November 2020 14: 25
          +1
          Kommersant, referring to the SVR, gave a summary of the grouping of the Turkish army involved in Azerbaijan, the territorial deployment of units, up to the first order to start the operation in Karabakh, given by the Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar in Baku on 27.09.20. There is no victory for Russian diplomacy and not close. The victory of Russian diplomacy is when, in response to the assassination of our ambassador Griboyedov in Persia, the Persian Shah gives the territory of Northern Azerbaijan and a huge diamond the size of a cobblestone to the control of the Russian Empire (stored in Gokhran). The Turks in Syria shot down an airplane of the Russian Armed Forces, killed Ambassador Karlov, shot down a military helicopter in the CSTO area of ​​operation. And where is the tangible victory of Russian diplomacy? There is nothing.
          1. Bakht Offline Bakht
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 12 November 2020 14: 54
            -3
            The commentator is just a newspaper.
            If it's not difficult - then give a link. Especially about the order
            1. Gervkr Offline Gervkr
              Gervkr (German Kryuchkov) 12 November 2020 18: 28
              0
              Demagogy. Each state has closed orders and state secrets.
              1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 12 November 2020 20: 11
                0
                Kommersant with reference to SVR

                are these your words? And so confidently. I accept your answer. What you wrote is demagoguery.
      2. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 11 November 2020 07: 43
        -5
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        Zakharova has a lot to say. But who will believe her? As peacekeepers or not as peacekeepers, the Turks will not leave Azerbaijan.

        Yes, Zakharova is still an authority. Naturally, the Turks will be there. That's why they came.
        And Bakhtiyar drowned us for "peace in the South Caucasus" through the military victory of Azerbaijan. You can imagine what is in his head.
        Well, about the "pure victory of Russian diplomacy" - it's just a clinic ...
        1. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 11 November 2020 10: 06
          +4
          The Turks will be wherever they want to see them ... But they will not be a side in resolving issues ... This is what the representative of the Indel Minister says ... By the way, Russian diplomacy has a clear victory ...
        2. DeGreen Offline DeGreen
          DeGreen 12 November 2020 08: 12
          0
          Clinic, this is what you wrote
    2. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 11 November 2020 07: 37
      +2
      Quote: Bakht
      since it opens wide the doors to the region of Central Asia for Turkey, which will introduce its peacekeepers into the territory of the unfinished republic, which implies the appearance of a military base.
      Earlier you wrote inadequate analytics. And now you are writing an outright lie.

      And who are you actually to judge the adequacy of analytics?
      For me, you are inadequate when you said that after the victory of Azerbaijan, peace will come in the South Caucasus.
      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 11 November 2020 07: 52
        -2
        A simple question - has peace come or not?
        1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
          Marzhecki (Sergei) 11 November 2020 07: 57
          +1
          What other world? This is preparation for a new war, as it was after the end of the First World War.
          Do me a favor and spare me your comments from now on.
          All the best.
          1. Bakht Offline Bakht
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 11 November 2020 08: 06
            -5
            By the way, have you already found a Turkish base in Azerbaijan?
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                  1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 11 November 2020 08: 14
                    -6
                    You can write whatever you want. I never pointed out to you. I am just commenting on your writings. And I point out inaccuracies and inconsistencies. There are no Turkish bases in Azerbaijan. Peace has come to Karabakh, which is provided by Russia. Azerbaijan returned what belongs to it by right. Armenia retained at least part of Nagorno-Karabakh (the alternative was the complete loss of Karabakh).
                    These are the facts from which you must build on when writing any article. And not invent some horror stories.
                    Can you refute any of the facts I have listed?
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 11 November 2020 08: 24
                        -4
                        Can you answer my arguments in detail? Well, or at least read such articles. Probably also "Turkish interests" wrote

                        https://topwar.ru/176944-mir-v-karabahe-kto-bolshe-vsego-vyigral-ot-soglashenija-mezhdu-armeniej-azerbajdzhanom-i-rossiej.html

                        https://svpressa.ru/politic/article/281124/?utm_source=warfiles.ru
  4. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
    sgrabik (Sergei) 10 November 2020 14: 55
    +5
    It is necessary to derive the necessary experience from this conflict and urgently draw the appropriate conclusions, it is necessary to significantly accelerate the development, fine-tuning and supply of the most modern systems to our army for the effective fight against all types of UAVs, including micro-shock microdrones capable of forming combat swarm, it is this direction that needs to be paid special attention now !!!
    1. neri73-r Offline neri73-r
      neri73-r 11 November 2020 17: 22
      -3
      Quote: sgrabik
      and the supply of the most modern systems to our army for effective combat against all types of UAVs, including shock microdrones capable of forming battle swarms, it is this direction that needs to be paid special attention now !!!

      We have it all. First of all, they fight against UAVs, destroying command posts, both by troops and by the UAV command posts themselves! RER, electronic warfare and echeloned air defense + attack missile and other weapons. The UAV itself is iron!
  5. the crushing defeat of Karabakh showed Russia that the weaklings were beaten, beaten and will be beaten in the face, and the weaker the more painful! Strengthen the army, Russia, or else you will fly nuts!
  6. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 10 November 2020 16: 49
    -6
    Bindyuzhnik (Miron) Today, 15:24
    You think it is wrong - the problem for the Russian military is huge because they cannot oppose the enemy's modern strike drones with anything effective, and the Russians do not have their own strike unmanned aircraft and it will not appear very soon.

    - Perhaps .. that this is the most adequate and objective comment on this topic ...
    - I can only add that Russia will not have an unmanned strike aircraft (and not only strike aircraft) very, very soon ... - so long ago that a fundamentally new guided aircraft weapon will appear in time; and Russia will still master and establish the production of outdated UAVs ... and play the expensive national Russian game ... - "tank biathlon" ...
    - Well, what can you do if the armed forces of Russia are headed by a person who has the same relation to military affairs ... as ... as to obstetrics ... - this is S.K. Shoigu ... - With such a Minister of Defense and with such a headquarters for Russia, there is nothing else to do but play tank biathlon ...; periodically receiving news about the downed Russian planes and helicopters ...
    - My plus to the author of the comment ...
    1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
      sgrabik (Sergei) 11 November 2020 16: 35
      +2
      I do not see anything adequate in this comment, and even more so objective, Bindyuzhnik (Miron) wrote outright stupidity, and you are trying to pass off this stupidity as an objective truth !!!
  7. kirillovleva_2 Offline kirillovleva_2
    kirillovleva_2 (Kirillov Lev) 10 November 2020 17: 10
    +4
    The dominance of UAVs is due to the almost complete absence of air defense in Karabay - the Strela and Osa systems do not count, they are very limited in height, weak radars, etc. To use the s-300 against drones is stupidity, the cost of the missile will ruin the defender, and they are designed to destroy aircraft and larger missiles. Israel recently shot down a penny Hezbollah drone with a missile worth in the region of $ 300, even the Americans called those who used it idiots.
    1. Krasnodar Offline Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 11 November 2020 00: 54
      +3
      And if this drone were a spotter, how much money could it cost to cause damage? )) 30 thousand tanks? 3 million? 30 lamas? And what about human life? laughing For Americans, 300 thousand tanks for this is complete garbage, for many times less wealthy Israelis, to be honest, too)).
  8. boriz Offline boriz
    boriz (boriz) 10 November 2020 18: 29
    10
    No one is to blame for the defeat, except the Armenians.
    For 26 years, they were greedy in negotiations with Azerbaijan, although they could disperse on decent terms, having in hand a full-fledged international treaty.
    Those same 26 years stupidly refused to see how Azerbaijan strengthens its army. Who else should he fight with, except Armenia?
    They stopped working with their army, and with the arrival of Pashinyan, personnel pogroms began.
    They spoiled relations with Russia, from the word "absolutely". Up to insults. Against this background, the demands for immediate assistance from the Russian Federation looked stunning rudeness and dementia, when it turned out that there was no one to expect help from except Russia.
    It was clear to everyone as daylight that Putin would not talk to Pashinyan, he urgently needed to be changed. Putin had the opportunity to influence the situation. Question: for what and for whom? The Armenians (not only in Armenia) had to show that they realized their mistakes and henceforth "will not be like this anymore." Not a fig. Kolya sat out until his disgrace. It’s a pity to tears that they didn’t catch him at night.
    Even in these conditions, Russia helped and, in the last days of the conflict, the UAVs practically stopped flying. But this could have been done earlier, so that by the beginning of the conflict there was both materiel on hand and trained personnel.
    1. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
      Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) 10 November 2020 19: 02
      -8
      UAVs did not stop flying. These were the traditional fairy tales of Armenians to kind EEEHU ... where is the photo of the wreckage of the allegedly downed plane of Azerbaijan? confined themselves to the smoke of burnt lamb ... as they soaked the Aramians in the trenches before and continued ... it would be stupid for Russia to quarrel for the sake of the soros with Turkey and Azerbaijan. now there is one less state ... the Balts have blown away, the dill will podvanatek for a long time. after all, 30 million carcasses.
    2. zhart Offline zhart
      zhart (zhart) 11 November 2020 16: 18
      +1
      The consequences of the next Maidan are evident.
  9. Cucumbers Offline Cucumbers
    Cucumbers (Cucumbers) 10 November 2020 20: 41
    +1
    And another spit in the face of Russia - they shot down a helicopter .... by accident, like in Syria Su-25, like the murder of Karlov. We will figure it out, find the culprit, again this bleating. What generations they want to educate is already clear
  10. Rus Offline Rus
    Rus 10 November 2020 23: 23
    -9
    It is a pity that our army is as helpless in a modern war. Everything is the old fashioned way ... Bombs with a large deviation from the target ... Trenches and buried tanks ... decrepit ships and ancient aircraft ... Everything is Soviet ... The only thing is full tanks and the officers' allowance ... An ancient rocket r 36 suddenly became the newest .. daggers drag the moment 31 last 93 years.
    1. noname1117 Offline noname1117
      noname1117 11 November 2020 01: 29
      +3
      Lord, how tired of such whiners. Who will fight the "modern" war? USA? Ok, in fact.
      Abrams and Bradleys are of the same age as T-80 and BMP-2. At the same time, they consider them the top of military affairs and do not even plan to replace them.
      F-15/16, making up 75% of the US Air Force, OVER the Su-27. The B-52 flew with Stalin alive and will fly for at least 20 more years. "Ancient aircraft" ...
      Fleet? The first Nimitz was founded in 67th and is quite floating. Ticonderogs were built in the 80s and will serve until the middle of the century. Arleigh Burke has been under construction for 30 years and will be built indefinitely.
      All the same applies to other NATO countries. Only for some reason, some have this ultra-modern technology, while others have "Soviet scrap metal"
    2. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
      sgrabik (Sergei) 11 November 2020 16: 42
      +2
      Rus, you yourself read your nonsense, well, if there are no brains in your head, then at least you don’t disgrace yourself, don’t write this stupid nonsense, don’t show your complete illiteracy !!!
    3. The comment was deleted.
  11. DeGreen Offline DeGreen
    DeGreen 10 November 2020 23: 57
    +4
    The author is a visionary. Today it was officially announced that only Russian peacekeepers will be
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 11 November 2020 07: 41
      +2
      Karabakh is part of the territory and Azerbaijan. They have the right to invite Turks to it without any interstate agreements with Russia. And they will invite, and the base will be opened. Do you feel the difference?
      1. Isim soyad Offline Isim soyad
        Isim soyad (Isim Soyad) 11 November 2020 10: 23
        -3
        About that

        Karabakh is part of the territory and Azerbaijan

        - amendment, not "and Azerbaijan", but only Azerbaijan. There is no autonomy or status for Nagorno-Karabakh. Those Armenians who want to live in Khankedi or other regions must accept the citizenship and constitution of Azerbaijan, having our passports.

        And about this -

        They have the right to invite the Turks to it without any interstate agreements with Russia.

        - you're right. There will be officers / observers at the headquarters of the peacekeepers' centers, to observe the fulfillment of the obligations assumed.
        I do not think that Aliyev would agree to the peacekeepers from the Russian Federation, without having something to counterbalance.
        1. rrt Offline rrt
          rrt (rrt) 15 November 2020 00: 14
          0
          Are you saying that Turkish officers will be watching the Russian peacekeepers? - "uh, don't go there, go here ....". hehe))
      2. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 11 November 2020 13: 41
        +5
        Karabakh is now, in fact, a disputed territory, and peacekeepers are not invited from among the countries participating in the conflict, they can only be neutrals
      3. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 11 November 2020 17: 26
        +2
        And now what prevents them from inviting Turks and establishing a base in Sumgait or Ganja ??
  12. cooper Offline cooper
    cooper (Alexander) 11 November 2020 01: 52
    0
    Well .. about the Turkish military base in Karabakh, the author is clearly bent. Ostap suffered as it was getting hot. wink
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 11 November 2020 07: 41
      +5
      The base will be in Azerbaijan, and not one.
      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 11 November 2020 13: 40
        +7
        So Azerbaijan and so long ago fell under Turkey, so Karabakh does not change the general state of affairs.
        1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
          Marzhecki (Sergei) 19 November 2020 09: 12
          0
          Well, Belarus is also like Russia lies, but our military base is not there.
          1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 19 November 2020 12: 04
            +2
            RB is a parasite, which it is high time to put before a choice: either they become really under the Russian Federation, or they go through the forest, but without money and help from the Russian Federation, since they are so independent and multi-vector. We saw how this multi-vector approach ends - exclusively with Russophobia and Armenia has not gone far from Ukraine here. We have already managed to ban the Russian language and call the Russian invaders and pour slop on the Russian Federation. After that, the Armenians had to quit solving their problems themselves, this would serve as a good lesson for Minsk
  13. oracul Offline oracul
    oracul (leonid) 11 November 2020 07: 35
    +3
    We must always realistically assess the potential of the enemy. Turkey's participation is instructors, drones and ISIS fighters, so the phrase about the united power is not correct. But the fact that Armenia has relied on drawing Russia into a bloody massacre, being itself not ready for it, is a fact.
  14. Vitaly Lozovich Offline Vitaly Lozovich
    Vitaly Lozovich (Vitaly Lozovich) 11 November 2020 09: 22
    +3
    Firstly, Russia did not abandon anyone and did not intend to intervene in the conflict, because as we well remember the Armenian demonstrations - the Russian invaders get out of Armenia! Secondly, all Turkish UAVs turned out to be complete crap in front of the Russian "Krasukha 4", when it was turned on, from 9 to several dozen shock drones fell to the ground (there are different reports), this is how they passed the test, or rather, did not pass. Further: no DOORS to Central Asia are open before Turkey. Turkey, after Putin's statement, quietly sits on the "fifth" point, does not even try to dictate something there, and Azerbaijan is most glad that Russia is bringing its troops along the perimeter of Karabakh. Has Armenia lost? Serves them right. But we once again tested our electronic warfare and they were at the height of glory. But the helicopter with our pilots is really a pity. But declaring a war for a downed helicopter is stupid, but giving us those who did it is right. And the raids on Azeris in Moscow and other cities, where they drive around in cars with flags, is also correct. Catch and plant! Take a walk in your Azerbaijan!
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Nikolaevich I Offline Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I (Vladimir) 11 November 2020 10: 13
    +4
    The fact that the technical and organizational components of ground-based air defense are now rapidly becoming obsolete and for the air defense, as a branch of the military, "revolutionary" transformations are ripe, became clear long before the Karabakh conflict! The transformations at the first stage were hampered by the lack of understanding (unwillingness to understand) of the military officials in the need for these transformations now! Perhaps the results of the Karabakh conflict will play the role of a "roast rooster" pecking these ranks in the appropriate places! But doubts remain! Such transformations require significant (and urgent ...) financial investments ... and in the Russian Federation there is always "no penny ..."!
  17. Vsevolod Averkeev (Vsevolod Averkeev) 11 November 2020 10: 18
    +1
    for Turkey, which will introduce its peacekeepers into the territory of the unfinished republic

    - who will enter what where ??? the author burns ???
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 19 November 2020 09: 11
      0
      The author just understands the situation better than some sofa experts.
  18. Tektor Offline Tektor
    Tektor (Tektor) 11 November 2020 11: 07
    -1
    In addition, air defense systems need to be protected by short-range air defense systems like Pantsir-S1.

    No. The carapace is not effective against small kamikaze drones. There is only one remedy here - Air Defense Derivation. Those. you need a means that every minute monitors the situation above and around from all angles. And it never turns off. Among such means is Mercury, which should cover the hangar with the air defense system.
    1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 11 November 2020 13: 39
      +4
      The length of the Turkish combat drone is 6,5 meters, the wingspan is 12 meters, the combat speed is only 130 km per hour, and the working flight height is no more than 1500 meters. So the fact that the Armenian air defense fought extremely badly, not covering the S-300 air defense systems with melee air defense systems, poorly using camouflage, not protecting armored vehicles on the march, although in the USSR Shilki and Tunguska were used for this ... this is a problem only Armenia, whose army proved to be poorly trained.
    2. Nikolaevich I Offline Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I (Vladimir) 11 November 2020 16: 39
      0
      Quote: Tektor
      There is only one remedy here - Air Defense Derivation.

      Alas! Derivation is far from being a "panacea"! For example, I do not understand those "huge" expressed hopes for such an art installation!
  19. ELENA LOGACHINI Offline ELENA LOGACHINI
    ELENA LOGACHINI (ELENA LOGACHINI) 11 November 2020 11: 08
    +3
    The victory of Baku showed only one thing, that if you have a friend behind you who is ready to support you in any situation, then you are not afraid of any war.
    1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 11 November 2020 12: 07
      0
      Not quite so, all the advanced experience of Turkey and Israel in high-precision unmanned weapons was manifested here, so they used it against the outdated air defense systems of the Armenians. The novelty of the weapon worked, which is an object lesson and warning for everyone else ... Especially for the Russian Armed Forces. because to this day there are neither medium and small unmanned attack weapons, nor weapons against them, because, as always, they do not react to changes in weapons and follow the old path of gigantomania, when in military conflicts the transition to a mass scale of cheap and high-precision weapons of destruction is already happened ...
    2. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 11 November 2020 17: 31
      +2
      Baku's victory showed only one thing: if instead of a head you have a big oppa, then no one behind your back will help.
  20. Crankshaft Offline Crankshaft
    Crankshaft (Vladimir) 11 November 2020 11: 55
    +1
    For local wars with the participation of Russia and conventional weapons, such battles only improve our weapons and tactics, i.e. benefits the military. Apart from the United States and China, we have no opponents to whom we can lose the war like Armenia to Azerbaijan. A war with the United States and or China can only be nuclear for us, and this is not a choice, but the only possible action (whether we want it or not). Our losses in such local wars can be different and cannot be compared due to many attendant factors. For example, the war in Syria and or in Lebanon cannot be compared with a hypothetical war with Ukraine, Azerbaijan with the support of Turkey, not to mention Turkey. Now ours will throw all their forces and capabilities into the development of UAVs, not only reconnaissance, but also shock ones, including disposable kamikaze. The basis is already there, the tactics have been decided. I think in Syria, ours will soon test the UAV "Flock". The further development of UAVs is a drone versus drone fight, a choice of disposable versus reusable, disposable versus disposable, reusable versus a flock of disposables. The determining factor will be the price / quality. The equipment of reusable UAVs with electronic warfare systems will begin (such were developed by the "Knapsack" type for 10 km range. The use of laser weapons. Protection of stationary objects with balloons with a stretched net.
  21. AlexLevant Offline AlexLevant
    AlexLevant (Alex Levant) 11 November 2020 13: 31
    0
    We, as always, are preparing for the last war.
  22. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 11 November 2020 13: 34
    +3
    And without Armor, there are air defense systems in the near defense zone, such as Shilka, Tunguska, and the like. I have not seen Armenia use these systems, but they were designed to provide direct protection against air attacks by armored vehicles, military columns on the march, and the like. If the S-300 air defense systems were covered with at least 4 Shilkas, or Tungusks, their combat resistance would have been much higher. The Armenians did not use the Zu-23-2, which also proved to be excellent as an anti-aircraft gun in the close air defense zone, capable of effectively work in simple meteorological conditions both as a means of supporting the infantry and as an effective system for destroying enemy light armored vehicles. As it was already written to me that they say the drones are the Death Star and they are not included in the air defense zone. Trust the officer, a drone with a motor of only 100 horsepower does not differ in speed, load capacity, or the ability to work from great heights. Long-range ammunition will simply not be raised by a 100-liter motor, but to use simpler ammunition, for example, corrected aerial bombs, such bombs need to be dropped from high altitudes, so that using the drop height the aerial bomb could cover some distance, like a kind of glider, but climb onto high altitude with a decent amount of ammunition on board, a drone with a motor of only 100 liters is not able to, especially in the mountains, where the air is thin. Drones work from heights of 600-1500 meters, no more, their operating speed is 130 km per hour, which makes them accessible even for large-caliber sniper rifles, such as Elephant, for example, in the hands of a good sniper. Large-caliber machine guns, such as the DShK, or the UTES, could also be effective.
    1. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
      Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 18: 26
      0
      And what about the performance characteristics of "Bayraktar" to the air defense officer "in scrap" to see? To not write garbage?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayraktar_TB2#Specifications_(Bayraktar_TB2)

      Powerplant: 1 x 100 Hp Internal Combustion Engine with Injection
      Cruise Speed: 130 km / h
      Service Ceiling: 8,200 m
      Operational altitude: 5,500 m
      Endurance: 27 hours
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAM_(Smart_Micro_Munition)#Technical_specifications
      ____________ MAM-C _____ MAM-L
      Diameter_____70 mm_____160 mm
      Length______970 mm_______1 m
      Weight _______ 6.5 kg_______22 kg
      Range________8 km________8 km (14 km with Inertial Navigation System / Global Positioning System option)
      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 11 November 2020 21: 36
        +1
        1) The language of this site is Russian, so write in Kangaroo elsewhere.
        2) Take the trouble to explain, since from your point of view we are so stupid, to what maximum height, with full ammunition, and even in the mountains, where the air is thin, a drone can rise, with an engine of only 100 horsepower, if the Soviet fighter-bomber Su -17M4 took off from a mountain airfield in Kandahar with a load of 3 bombs of 250 kg each.
        3) And yet, the flight range, it is ferry, when the aircraft flies with full tanks from point A to point B, with a maximum supply of fuel on board and combat, when you need to fly from point A, donating part of the fuel, in order to take on board ammunition, complete a combat mission, which means that the aircraft must fly over targets for some time, search for them and destroy them with onboard weapons, and then return to the point of departure. Take the trouble to explain what the flight range will be for a Turkish drone with a full ammunition load, which needs to hang over the target for at least 15 minutes in order to find at least one target and try to destroy it with its 100 hp engine.
        4) The weapon with which the Turk is armed has laser guidance, that is, in order to shoot down the sight of a rocket, even an ordinary smoke or aerosol curtain is enough.
        5) The further from the target the launch of the ammunition, the lower its accuracy, and the Turks hit right on target, and the video from the drone camera suggests that the fire was fired from heights of about 600 meters, and only sometimes from heights up to 800-1200 meters , but definitely not from 8200 meters, about which you write
        1. Gervkr Offline Gervkr
          Gervkr (German Kryuchkov) 12 November 2020 14: 54
          -2
          For this, the tactics of air strike by unmanned aerial vehicles and loitering ammunition HARPY, HAROP, HERON are used - they ram and suppress with a warhead 300 kg of TNT equivalent of the enemy's air defense, and they can also strike enemy manpower, the operator sees the target of guidance from 8 km in height, or from a distance up to 8 km to the target from low altitude. And here Krasukha 4 will not help. The robotic complex has homing and autonomy in operation.
          1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 12 November 2020 18: 14
            +2
            Have you ever flown an airplane ?! Apparently not. From a height of 8000 meters, the ground is not always visible at all, it is cloudy, but you want the operator to see it, and even aim accurately. Don't be funny, there is no such thing.
      2. Mihail Chatkin Offline Mihail Chatkin
        Mihail Chatkin (Mihail Chatkin) 12 November 2020 22: 40
        +1
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) is useless to prove anything. He thinks at the level of the 70s of the last century.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Alkatrass A Offline Alkatrass A
    Alkatrass A (Аlkatrass A) 11 November 2020 13: 45
    -5
    Putin gave Transcaucasia to Erdogan
    We all waited for the response to the attack on Azerbaijan. Instead of a punitive operation against Turkish puppets, Putin agreed to end the war on conditions Azerbaijan could only dream of. Our soldiers will not be avenged, which means that the enemies will continue to kill our soldiers, without fail apologizing for this. For now.
    Putin lost Transcaucasia to Erdogan, launched him to our borders. Now this region is so Turkish that Azerbaijan can shoot down our helicopter and not be afraid of the consequences. Today Azerbaijan is in the zone of influence of Turkey, tomorrow Dagestan and Chechnya will fall, then the rest of the Turkic peoples of Russia.
    Putin's actions are a signal to other countries: Russian soldiers can be killed, there will be no punishment for this. If Putin were as consistent, the war in Karabakh would have been over long ago: Karabakh would have been under Russian protectorate, Russia's military presence in the region would have become permanent, Artsakh received would be an official status. Instead, a humiliating peace is imposed on Armenia; Russian peacekeepers will be expelled from Karabakh in 5-10 years, and then the war will start again.
    According to his long-standing habit, Putin did not solve the problem, but postponed its solution to the future.
    Without a change of government in the country, it is impossible to change Russia's failed foreign policy. These people do not need a strong Russia, they need to sit quietly in their chairs until old age. They will go away, but the problems will remain.
    1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
      sgrabik (Sergei) 11 November 2020 17: 01
      0
      We will somehow figure out without you what, how and when we need to do, we are not going to mindlessly get involved in any conflict, even if this conflict occurs between our neighbors !!!
  25. Vasil gaifullin Offline Vasil gaifullin
    Vasil gaifullin (Vasil Gaifullin) 11 November 2020 15: 00
    0
    The Caucasians tested our weapons for free. Thanks to them, the export potential of our country will only increase. After all, the sale of weapons by our capitalists is in second place, after the sale of oil and gas resources.
  26. Dm123 Offline Dm123
    Dm123 (Dm) 11 November 2020 15: 33
    0
    Quote: Sapsan136
    Trust the officer

    - it's not about believing you or not.
    As an example, Israel has been successfully using drones against various countries for many (yes, many!) Years using outdated Soviet technology. And no one in the Russian Federation really drew conclusions from this, and in the minds of officers still, figuratively speaking, "checkers and cavalry attacks" ...
    1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
      sgrabik (Sergei) 11 November 2020 17: 07
      -1
      Well, after this conflict, it is simply stupid not to make the deepest conclusions and not make an urgent correction to the national military program, placing at the forefront the production of the most modern UAVs of all types, as well as reliable and effective defense systems against them !!!
    2. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 11 November 2020 17: 34
      0
      Does Russia use the T-55 and S-200? Fresh ... In the minds of Russian officers - "base" and "warrior" ....
  27. Kuznetsov Offline Kuznetsov
    Kuznetsov (Kuznetsov Alexander) 11 November 2020 17: 53
    +2
    What Nagorno-Karabakh showed Russia.
    Nothing that Russia would not know.
    Armenia has demonstrated, what Russia has been saying all the time, that replacing brains with lace panties made of glass beads, even if they are from Soros, does not help much in real life, especially in war.
    That Azerbaijan and Aliyev need to be careful with the Turks, otherwise you can lose your head from those very Turks. What Aliyev actually understands well, he bowed to them, but did not invite them to the peacekeepers.
    Russia has shown that it will not participate in other people's wars. Which is very good.
    At the same time, Russia has demonstrated its weakness in propaganda, lace panties and glass beads instead of brains from a white person remain very attractive to a variety of natives. In general, bury your gold in the civilized field of fools.
    1. Kuznetsov Offline Kuznetsov
      Kuznetsov (Kuznetsov Alexander) 11 November 2020 18: 06
      -1
      And with military conclusions, let the military figure it out. Everything is more or less clear there.
  28. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 18: 06
    -2
    Quote: Bulanov
    Why then do they write about attacks by drone swarms?

    - Because there are swarms of drones that can attack. There are several dozen of them in the swarm - very small.
  29. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 18: 08
    -1
    Quote: sgrabik
    UAVs there are constantly used against our military grouping, and especially against the Khmeimim airbase, attempts to strike our units and units in Syria are still continuing.

    - They use crap against Khmeimim, not UAVs. Aircraft models from the school circle are used there.
  30. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 18: 10
    -2
    Quote: sgrabik
    It is necessary to derive the necessary experience from this conflict and urgently draw the appropriate conclusions, it is necessary to significantly accelerate the development, fine-tuning and supply of the most modern systems to our army for the effective fight against all types of UAVs, including micro-shock microdrones capable of forming combat swarm, it is this direction that needs to be paid special attention now !!!

    - Import substitution is under-import substitution ... recourse crying
  31. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 18: 17
    -2
    Quote: Vsevolod Averkeev
    Interesting stuff in Asia Times.
    Allegedly, the Krasukha-4 complex transferred to the base in Gyumri has shot down 9 different UAVs since the beginning of the conflict, including Bayraktars.

    - They are clearly lying. Otherwise, the Armenians would have shaken the whole world with these fallen "Bayraktars". But there is nothing like this ...
    1. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 11 November 2020 19: 56
      +1
      https://panarmenian.net/m/eng/news/286779
      - especially touches the tale about the "export growth" of Turkish UAVs

      The video features a Canada-produced Wescam CMX 15D Gimbal Turret.

      After the first reports emerged of Turkish drones being used to target civilian populations in Karabakh, Canada halted military export permits to Turkey
    2. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 11 November 2020 21: 40
      0
      Videos of the downed Byroktar are on social networks, take the trouble to find and watch before you write us your fairy tales
  32. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 18: 33
    -3
    Quote: Marzhetsky
    What other world? This is preparation for a new war, as it was after the end of the First World War.

    - Who will fight whom, read out the lists of the parties, please ?! wink
  33. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 18: 39
    -1
    Quote: sgrabik
    Bindyuzhnik (Miron), what absurd nonsense, you don't need to pass off what you wish for reality, it looks stupid, do not forget that Russia is far from a banana republic and its scientific and technical potential is at least in no way inferior to either Turkish or Israeli.

    - Israeli - in a number of places it is inferior absolutely, for example, - microelectronics. This is exactly what without which there are no high-quality UAVs, no high-quality weapons, no aviation avionics, no RTR, no electronic warfare ...
  34. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 18: 44
    -1
    Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
    The Turks will be wherever they want to see them ... But they will not be a side in resolving issues ... This is what the representative of the Indel Minister says ... By the way, Russian diplomacy has a clear victory ...

    - Do not tell the public: one of the closest and few remaining allies of Russia - Armenia - has been humiliated to the last degree, - what is the "victory" here?
    Military - defeat, political - humiliation ... Some Erdogan in the former Soviet space disposes as at home, organizes the victories of wars ...
    1. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 11 November 2020 19: 48
      0
      The diplomatic victory of Russia is that the Armenian tail no longer wags the Russian dog, Armenian citizens got a chance to ask themselves and their chosen people for the results of their policy, the property and lives of civilians in Armenia did not suffer, the people of Artsakh were saved from de-Armenianization of the region. ...
      1. Breard Offline Breard
        Breard (Serg) 12 November 2020 04: 49
        +1
        Hmm ... well, well, "Russia’s diplomatic victory" to state the defeat of our ally! ... it's just betrayal and or cowardice. Moreover, cowardice and betrayal "justified" ... by "peacekeepers"!
        The Russian leadership sees how strong Turkey is. Namely, Turkey fought in Karabakh behind the back of Azerbaijan.
        Russia was afraid to fight behind Armenia's back. Moreover, the CSTO.
        1. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 12 November 2020 11: 01
          +1
          Russia's ally - Armenia - has not been defeated, Armenia has not even withdrawn its troops from the barracks ... Enough to shake the air in vain with meaningless statements ...
    2. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 11 November 2020 21: 45
      +3
      What are the allied obligations of Armenia to the Russian Federation ?! Maybe Armenia provided the Russian Federation with a place for a military base for free ?! No ... Maybe Armenia fought on the side of the Russian Federation in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria ?! No ... But Armenia called the Russians invaders, demanded the withdrawal of Russian troops from the base for which the Russian Federation pays a lot of money, banned the Russian language in Armenia ... And this is your ally of the Russian Federation ?! Don't make my sneakers laugh ... This is a parasite that has lost its shores, which considers the Russian Federation exclusively from the point of view of a consumer of freebies, which, in the opinion of Armenians, should burst into them from the Russian Federation, but what does the Russian Federation need to Armenia to feed them and fight for them ?! Yes, it should not and is not obliged to anything !!!
      1. Gervkr Offline Gervkr
        Gervkr (German Kryuchkov) 12 November 2020 15: 20
        -1
        And didn’t ask why the US bases are not called occupiers in the countries where they are located, but ours are called? Moreover, if the country wanted to remove the American base, the Americans will move it. This has already happened in Kyrgyzstan. By the way, does the NATO military base in Ulyanovsk seem to be still functioning? If a Russian military helicopter was shot down in the CSTO's area of ​​operation, where is our commensurate response? Or was Ambassador Karlov killed? What was the answer? Single pickets with the flags of Azerbaijan and Tatarstan, without the flag of the Russian Federation appear in Tatarstan, where is our answer? Caucasians with flags of Azerbaijan are running around Moscow time and Peter, where is our answer? But when something is written in internationally recognized English, my God, the pride of a Great Russian and statements about the kangaroo language awakens. Apparently, the Armenians thought according to the same scheme, the result is known ...
        1. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 12 November 2020 15: 45
          +1
          There has never been a NATO military base in Ulyanovsk, but who should be given an "answer" with pickets in Tatarstan? State flags of foreign states in Russia are not prohibited, there is nothing to be "responsible" for ...
        2. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
          Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 12 November 2020 18: 10
          +3
          Because the United States will tear anyone who opens his mouth against them. See how the Yankees behaved at their bases in the Asian republics of the former USSR. The locals were killed like dogs, the whole district was flooded with kerosene when landing their planes and no one dares to open their mouths and demand compensation, because the Yankees compensate quickly, and with Tomahawks. The Yankees got out of Kyrgyzstan only after pressure from the Russian Federation, and in Ulyanovsk there has never been any NATO base. It was, there was a permit for refueling of US military transport aircraft en route to Afghanistan, which was canceled long ago. Well, this is not a question for us, but for Putin personally. If he is ready to swallow this rudeness and betray the country, then these are his sins, not everyone like him and the drunkard Kain Yeltsin, with Judushka Gorbachev
  35. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 18: 54
    -1
    Quote: Vasil Gaifullin
    The Caucasians tested our weapons for free. Thanks to them, the export potential of our country will only increase.

    - The export of Turkish UAVs will grow by hundreds of percent, the export of Russian air defense systems, which they have clicked like in a dash, is unlikely ... ... The world just doesn't know about it, especially now ...
    1. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 11 November 2020 19: 58
      +2
      Turkey buys Russian air defense systems, Russia does not buy Turkish UAVs - fact .....
  36. Sergey Smirnov_2 (Sergey Smirnov) 11 November 2020 20: 24
    +1
    The Armenians did not want to join Russia, let them now reap the benefits. Otherwise they wanted to eat the fish and frighten the Azeris with our forces.
  37. Petrovich Offline Petrovich
    Petrovich (Sergei) 11 November 2020 20: 42
    0
    Quote: Rus
    It is a pity that our army is as helpless in a modern war. Everything is the old fashioned way ... Bombs with a large deviation from the target ... Trenches and buried tanks ... decrepit ships and ancient aircraft ... Everything is Soviet ... The only thing is full tanks and the officers' allowance ... An ancient rocket r 36 suddenly became the newest .. daggers drag the moment 31 last 93 years.

    What army are you talking about now? And judging by your grammar, you are clearly not from Russia ...
  38. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 21: 03
    0
    Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
    Turkey buys Russian air defense systems, Russia does not buy Turkish UAVs - fact .....

    - I think that Turkey will now stop buying Russian air defense systems ... laughing lol
    1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 11 November 2020 22: 30
      0
      The rooster also thought, but he got into the soup ... and we will not grieve that the NATO country will not receive our weapon, or refuse it, remaining with the antediluvian air defense system Hawk
    2. House 25 Sq. 380 (House 25 Sq. 380) 12 November 2020 01: 18
      +1
      If you are not paid money for your "thoughts", then they cost somewhere near zero .... But the fact, as they say, is obvious .....
  39. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 21: 04
    0
    Quote: Petrovich
    Quote: Rus
    It is a pity that our army is as helpless in a modern war. Everything is the old fashioned way ... Bombs with a large deviation from the target ... Trenches and buried tanks ... decrepit ships and ancient aircraft ... Everything is Soviet ... The only thing is full tanks and the officers' allowance ... An ancient rocket r 36 suddenly became the newest .. daggers drag the moment 31 last 93 years.

    What army are you talking about now? And judging by your grammarи you are clearly not from Russia ...

    - judging by your grammarе. lol
  40. aliyevanargis1957mailru (nargis Aliyeva) 11 November 2020 22: 10
    0
    All are so learnedly expressed, all "military consultants" are straight. One thing is not clear where Central Asia is and where is the window to the "unfinished region" Is this about Karabakh? Is it in Central Asia, and Turkey should be there, because something should. curb Russia's appetite.
  41. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 November 2020 22: 53
    +1
    Quote: Sapsan136
    1) The language of this site is Russian, so write in Kangaroo elsewhere.

    - Before the October Revolution, Russian officers were forced to study at least three languages ​​at a high level even at school, and even in military schools and the Academy - no one would have turned to call English - "the language of the kangaroo." Shame on you?

    2) Take the trouble to explain, since from your point of view we are so stupid, to what maximum height, with a full ammunition load, and even in the mountains, where the air is discharged, a drone can rise with an engine of only 100 horsepower

    - Everything is absolutely clearly written there in "kangaroo language".

    if the Soviet Su-17M4 fighter-bomber took off from a mountain airfield in Kandahar with a load of 3 bombs of 250 kg each.

    - The creators of "Bayraktar" were completely "on the drum" of the S17M4 problem.

    3) And yet, the flight range, it is ferry, when the aircraft flies with full tanks from point A to point B, with a maximum supply of fuel on board and combat, when you need to fly from point A, donating part of the fuel, in order to take on board ammunition, complete a combat mission, which means that the aircraft must fly over targets for some time, search for them and destroy them with onboard weapons, and then return to the point of departure. Take the trouble to explain what the flight range will be for a Turkish drone with a full ammunition load, which needs to hang over the target for at least 15 minutes in order to find at least one target and try to destroy it with its 100 hp engine.

    - It says in pure kangurian language: flight duration - 27 hours. And the cruising speed is 130 km / h. 130 * 27 = 3510 km. Given that the entire Nagorno-Karabakh can be inscribed in a rectangle of 100x200 km.

    4) The weapon with which the Turk is armed has laser guidance, that is, in order to shoot down the sight of a rocket, even an ordinary smoke or aerosol curtain is enough.

    - Undoubtedly - of sufficient density. The only question is that in 99.99% of cases the crews of all armored and non-armored targets on the ground had no idea that they were attacked until those last 2-3 seconds, when they already heard the whistle of an approaching weapon - usually it was a MAM bomb -L.

    5) The farther the ammunition is fired from the target, the lower its accuracy, and the Turks hit right on target

    - the laser beam is narrow enough not to expand too much beyond these 5-8 km.

    and the video from the drone camera suggests that the fire was fired from heights of about 600 meters, and only sometimes from heights of up to 800 -1200 meters, but definitely not from 8200 meters, about which you write

    - Zoom lenses are installed there, 20-25x. Hence this false impression.

    And one moment: in Russian (as well as in Kangurian), when typing, after the punctuation marks, the "space" key must be pressed.
  42. Astronaut Offline Astronaut
    Astronaut (San Sanych) 12 November 2020 02: 27
    0
    The author writes about a topic in which he does not understand anything, tk. completely ignores the facts, in particular the impact of electronic warfare on UAVs
  43. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 12 November 2020 03: 18
    +1
    Quote: Astronaut
    The author writes about a topic in which he does not understand anything, tk. completely ignores the facts, in particular the impact of electronic warfare on UAVs

    - How did this efficiency manifest itself in Karabakh?
    1. cdmax Odessa Offline cdmax Odessa
      cdmax Odessa (cdmax Odessa) 12 November 2020 14: 31
      -1
      Quote: Michael1950
      How did this efficiency manifest itself in Karabakh itself?

      Krasukha-4, Armenia does not have its own electronic warfare. Hence such a sad result
  44. DeGreen Offline DeGreen
    DeGreen 12 November 2020 08: 03
    0
    All the same, early Putin introduced peacekeepers to Karabakh. I watched the performance of the Armenians yesterday and was stunned. Russia is to blame that Azerbaijan attacked Karabakh and Russia is to blame for not getting involved in the war. The majority of Armenians believe that Russia has betrayed them. (I wonder what). It is the Armenians who consider Crimea to be Ukraine, and the militias as bandits
    1. cdmax Odessa Offline cdmax Odessa
      cdmax Odessa (cdmax Odessa) 12 November 2020 14: 27
      -2
      Quote: DeGreen
      The majority of Armenians believe that Russia has betrayed them. (I wonder what).

      In fact, it is. Armenia, a country of the CU, the CSTO, was exchanged for Aliyev's oil. And even the deaths of their own military men did not stop this concern and "decay". Turkey, which did not conclude anything, did many times more for Azerbaijan than its ally in the CSTO and the CU. But now for some reason the Russian Federation sent peacekeepers there under its auspices, and not the UN
      1. DeGreen Offline DeGreen
        DeGreen 12 November 2020 23: 07
        0
        Armenia is as much a Russophobic country as Ukraine. This is the first thing. And the second - even the Armenians themselves did not recognize Nagorno-Karabakh
  45. cdmax Odessa Offline cdmax Odessa
    cdmax Odessa (cdmax Odessa) 12 November 2020 13: 28
    -1
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    Do you think it is wrong - the problem for the military of the Russian Federation is huge because they cannot oppose anything effective to modern enemy strike drones

    Not certainly in that way. As the case has shown, the most effective is not the destruction of the UAV, but its failure or "blindness". Electronic warfare and only electronic warfare
  46. Yarpen Offline Yarpen
    Yarpen (Maksim) 12 November 2020 17: 06
    +1
    Yes, in military terms, everything was expected, the tactics of the Turks have long been understood. Karabakh cannot survive without full-fledged assistance to Armenia, she did not recognize it, did not enter the war, and what is the funniest thing is that it did not really prepare for the war. But the government of Armenia rubbed it well on the people. So the questions are political and not military.

    What kind of air defense can we talk about there? In the Russian Armed Forces, it is standard for the direct cover of the 12 TOP troops in the air defense of a motorized rifle brigade - this is just such a thing that knocks down small crap, both UAVs and all kinds of faster warheads. This is roughly 4 vehicles for ONE battalion group. those. for a 30-40 thousandth Armenian group, according to our standards, only about 100 TORs are needed. And there, in the brigade, I am still happy with all sorts of hodgepodge, and most importantly, above the brigade, there is actually the very air defense of a higher level, BUKs basically. It's in the army. And the object - S-300 and Pantsiri. All this works in conjunction with fighters, RTR, electronic warfare and other charms in a single radar space. By the way, Armenia doesn’t seem to have raised its fighters at all, although at the exercises, the machines were even stronger than the Turkish F-16s.

    And we saw a lonely TOR, and not once our military, but a modification with 4 missiles, as far as I understand. Yes, even if there was the newest army with 16 missiles - what he will do there alone. A dozen more old operating systems were purchased from someone, not modified and not the fact that they were generally workers. Well, the uncovered object S-300 in Armenia itself, which, as it were, should not shoot at every little detail.

    Could at least see how the ISI, the Greens or the Houthis there to hold out against the WTO, and organize competently observation, reconnaissance, shelter, camouflage, test the troops on their UAVs, which by the way were .. But why?
  47. Stalnov I.P. Offline Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. (Stalnov Ivan Petrovich) 13 November 2020 10: 55
    0
    And what did this WAR show for Russia, that the Armenians, thanks to their policies and mentality, simply do not know how to fight, if they are not given to be WINNERS, what does RUSSIA have to do with it? No one attacked Armenia as a state, but there were disputed territories, their issue had to be resolved, and Armenia, with its revolutions, throwings, leaders, wasted everything, that's their business! We have only one question, how long will our apparatuses be shot down and WE will lose people and where is the political will of the Supreme and Defense Minister. This is not the first time, maybe enough to chew snot.
  48. Vyacheslav Moscow 13 November 2020 13: 12
    0
    ... What did the crushing defeat of Karabakh show to Russia ...

    - passed Karabakh Pashinyan. And any references to Turkish and Israeli UAVs are an excuse for suckers. Azerbaijan began to use these drones back in 2016. There was enough time to prepare. But nothing was done. Even basic camouflage was not carried out. The impression was that the Armenians themselves were substituted for the drones. Now we must expect Pashinyan to declare Russia guilty of defeat, leave the CSTO and demand to leave the military base in Gyumri.
  49. nikolai.shupenin 14 November 2020 12: 38
    -1
    Armenia is a village and its destruction did not show Russia. and do not ... comrade. marzhetsky
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 19 November 2020 09: 04
      0
      Quote: nikolai.shupenin
      Armenia is a village and its destruction did not show Russia. and do not ... comrade. marzhetsky

      it's too bad that he didn't show anything
  50. Konstantin Governors (Konstantin Gubernatorov) 14 November 2020 13: 17
    +1
    In my opinion, the only way to counter drones, which are easy to upgrade, are inexpensive, and can be mass-produced and supplied with artificial intelligence, is to translate the war on drones into a war on drones against drones. Then, perhaps, a situation will even come when the massive nature of these weapons from both sides will make them meaningless, as is largely the case with nuclear weapons.
  51. Stalnov I.P. Offline Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. (Stalnov Ivan Petrovich) 14 November 2020 19: 17
    +1
    And what she showed, nothing for RUSSIA. That the Armenians just for 30 years fuked everything about, with their revolutions and throwing themselves to someone else. Armenia did not fight, no one attacked it, I am sure if it was attacked, Azerbaijan as a state ceased to exist. In military terms, nothing new, if the Armenians ... I am the Army, it is their fault, and if the drones were used against the Russian army, they would simply be destroyed, including the objects from which they started. There is an example of Syria. So, let them sprinkle ashes on your head.
  52. roman egorov Offline roman egorov
    roman egorov (roman egorov) 17 November 2020 12: 12
    +1
    Shock and small drones are a big problem for any army, what would the Americans do? Whether the frigates with the Tomahawks would have brought up all the command posts for the control of the drones would have been razed. Amers, Europeans also do not have anti-drone air defense. The Israelis have an Iron Dome deployed on their territory and are sooo expensive. Our army has a problem not in drones, but in the absence of controlled high-precision ammunition .. I still remember how ours in Syria used carpet bombing .. And the Turks clearly hit the bull's-eye with Roketsanami ...