Pro-Russian shifts are outlined in the Malaysian Boeing MH17 case

November 4, 2020 51

Consideration of the case on the destruction of the Malaysian Boeing MH17 may soon come to a logical conclusion, and the Ukrainian side may be declared the loser. For a long time, legal experts did not want to take into account the Russian arguments, but now the situation is changing - in the Netherlands they showed interest in the Russian point of view.

Judge Hendrik Steenhuis said that in the arbitration court in the case of the downed plane they would like to get acquainted with the documents of the Russian aviation concern Almaz-Antey - in the Netherlands they will hear the conclusions of experts from Russia. After sending the corresponding request, the judges are waiting for a response from the Russian Federation.

If the data of an independent examination from the Russian Federation are taken into account in the course of the investigation, the leaders of Ukraine who came to power in this country as a result of the coup in 2014 may be brought to justice. According to Almaz-Antey analysts, if the liner was hit by a Buk air defense missile system, the attack was carried out from the area south of the village of Zaroshchenskoye, and not from Snizhne (as the international prosecution claims).

According to experts, the Boeing was hit by an old 9M38 missile - such weapons were in the arsenal of the Armed Forces of Ukraine at that time. If the court in the Netherlands takes into account Russia's arguments, Ukraine will have to answer for the deaths in the sky of almost three hundred passengers of the Malaysian passenger plane.

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amateur

+10

4 November 2020 13: 46

Do not think that the Dutch and the Americans are fools and they don't know who actually shot down this Boeing. They actually do not even admit Malaysia to the commission of inquiry, because someone, somewhere, has made a political decision to appoint the guilty Russia. So the Dutch court "spit in the eyes - God's dew". No arguments in favor of the RF are accepted. Another example is Lyokha Navalny. Does NATO really think that with the use of a chemical warfare agent, he would get off only with diarrhea. But everyone does "square eyes" and say "newbie, newbie ..."
Valentine

+1

4 November 2020 14: 06

How much snot can you chew with this Buk. None of the witnesses of that crime saw either the launch of the Buk rocket, or its contrail, which stays in the air for up to 40 minutes, and none of the same witnesses saw the dusty column, which is necessarily formed when starting a solid fuel rocket, and it does not fly silently, but emits a loud, hissing crackle of torn fabric. It was somewhere after 5 pm, people worked in their gardens, and they could see perfectly well, although there was a slight cloudiness, that one big a plane, and two small ones nearby, then there was a pop, a flash, and a large plane began to fall, and the small ones flew in different directions ... So no Buk took part there, and this provocation was created by Ukraine and Washington specifically to suspend further the offensive of the Donbass militias ..
1. Dear sofa expert.
  
  0
  
  4 November 2020 16: 11
  
  It was somewhere after 5 pm, people were working in their orchards, and they could see perfectly well, although there was a slight cloudiness, that one large plane was flying in the sky, and two small
  
  Come on .. this is also an exaggeration.) To see a passenger plane at an altitude of 10 km? What kind of vision do you need to have? Condensation trail maximum. Well, or if it sparkles in the sun. Well, “two little ones” can be forgotten. They will not even sparkle.
  
  Shot down (or finished off) then most likely yes, it was from the plane.
  1. Valentine
    
    0
    
    4 November 2020 16: 44
    
    Quote: Dear sofa expert.
    See a passenger plane at an altitude of 10 km?
    
    Just do not forget that you can perfectly navigate by the condensation trail, and understand that it was not the "Lada" of the 6th model that left a trace there .. I live in the West of the Rostov Region, so this is not new for us, the plane is almost invisible, and You won't notice the jet of their condensation with a broom, even small, even large. Yes, the roar of the rocket launch itself, and the hurricane of dust raised by it, eyewitnesses should have seen, but no one saw it, and after all, when there is a noise, pop, explosion somewhere, people always instinctively they turn on him, and their brains are sure to record what is happening, so here, with this investigation, there are a lot of misunderstandings and falsehoods.
  2. sludge
    
    0
    
    5 November 2020 08: 08
    
    Every day I see planes at this altitude, it looks like I have super vision
    1. Dear sofa expert.
      
      0
      
      5 November 2020 10: 25
      
      Every day I see planes at this altitude, it looks like I have super vision
      
      How do you determine the height? Also by sight?
      1. sludge
        
        -2
        
        7 November 2020 16: 07
        
        Flightradar, have you heard?
        
        sludge
        
        -2
        
        7 November 2020 16: 11
        
        Such is my fetish, I see the plane, I open the flightradar, there is both altitude and speed. 11 km is also clearly visible
        
        Dear sofa expert.
        
        +2
        
        7 November 2020 19: 25
        
        Such is my fetish, I see the plane, I open the flightradar, there is both altitude and speed. 11 km is also clearly visible
        
        I don’t know where you live. Maybe on Everest. So from there up to 11 km at hand.)
2. Mish
  
  0
  
  5 November 2020 14: 06
  
  But only Russia supports the Buk version, only Ukrainian
  1. Valentine
    
    +1
    
    5 November 2020 14: 20
    
    So after all, this is only a version, and eyewitnesses, ordinary villagers, say only what they saw with their own eyes. And there is another interesting fact: at that time I was forty kilometers from the crash site, and perfectly heard on VHF an excerpt from the conversation of Commander Gorlovsky Bezler's garrison, who after 40 minutes was at the crash site, and talked to someone on walkie-talkies, that he was interested in the fact that the plane crashed less than an hour ago, and the bodies of the dead made such a stench as if they had lain in the sun at least three days, and this is another mystery in this story, but for some reason everyone is silent about this.
molybdenum

-3

4 November 2020 14: 11

Empty. Russia does not have a single state position on Boeing, and Russian specialists are unable to explain or prove anything. The very next day after the briefing by Almaz-Antey, which presented the results of its experiments, the deputy head of Rosaviatsia, at his briefing, denied all this. "What rocket?" - he said. "The plane can only shoot down another plane!" From such statements, even representatives of foreign media outlets got jaws.
1. Pete mitchell
  
  -1
  
  4 November 2020 15: 47
  
  Quote: molibden
  ..the deputy head of the Federal Air Transport Agency, at his briefing, denied all this. "What rocket?" - he said. "An aircraft can only shoot down another aircraft!" Even the representatives of foreign media got jaws from such statements.
  
  And with what fright did the deputy head of the Rossaviation become a specialist in combat use? He probably read something and watched some kind of movie - but according to his position, this is not necessary. If he does not know how to formulate his thoughts clearly, then this is already a question from another plane.
  1. molybdenum
    
    -1
    
    4 November 2020 16: 23
    
    Are you asking me this? The director of "Almaz-Antey" at his briefing announced the Federal Air Transport Agency, saying that tomorrow they will hold their own, and will explain many details. They (Federal Air Transport Agency) and explained. I was lying around in surprise and laughter.
    1. Pete mitchell
      
      -1
      
      4 November 2020 16: 32
      
      Wonderful are your deeds, O Lord. Is the Russian land really depleted and there are no intelligent managers - well, so that they don't get stuck at every step
      1. molybdenum
        
        -2
        
        4 November 2020 22: 42
        
        You are mistaken, I have been out of business for a long time. Yes, there was a case, he somehow created the sky and the Earth. He created man, in his own image and likeness, endowing him with will and reason. But to influence and control him - thank you. Reason and will were then given for what? Now I am just an outside observer and I am not taking sides. By the way, how did you guess that I was him?
        
        Pete mitchell
        
        +1
        
        5 November 2020 16: 04
        
        Actually, I didn't mean you. There are things that are not joked about, the French have experience ...
        You reasonably argue about the toothlessness of the Russian representatives in this matter, it's a pity they themselves do not understand this.
        
        molybdenum
        
        -1
        
        5 November 2020 17: 08
        
        Of course, I understood you, but decided to screw it in, for a change. :-)
        I think that ignorance should not be confused with piety, although one does not exclude the other. I will not comment on the French situation, since that is still a topic. But from my own life and experience, as well as analyzing the experience of others, I can say that the only thing that these people respect besides Allah is strength.
        
        Pete mitchell
        
        0
        
        5 November 2020 21: 41
        
        I agree with this without a doubt.
        I repeat, I very much agree with you about the participation of the toothlessness of the Russian side in this investigation: either demand that you be invited to the table as an equal; or send everyone on foot erotic route, moreover, so that there is no doubt ...
        
        molybdenum
        
        -1
        
        5 November 2020 22: 51
        
        Alas, strategic thinking is not our strong point.
        
        Pete mitchell
        
        0
        
        6 November 2020 00: 23
        
        It seems to me that this is not yet a level of strategic thinking, this is so - sat down at a green cloth with sharpeners: keep a candelabrum at hand. The strategy will begin when they start to lay out decent cards: not necessarily trump cards, but it will be troublesome to fight back. You do not seem to believe in this option, which also has the right to be. We'll see. Unfortunately 777 and deaths are just statistics on a big board
        
        molybdenum
        
        -2
        
        6 November 2020 01: 09
        
        I don’t believe you are right. I don’t see who could do it, taking into account some very scrupulous nuances. A little lower, to my other interlocutor, I tried to carefully explain this, but he did not understand me at all and was ready to rush with a saber not even at tanks, but at combat high-altitude drones. :-) I reminded me very much of those who represent Russia in this matter. Sadness and melancholy, from contemplation and understanding of what is happening. Although, if you think about it, when it was different. :-(
        
        Pete mitchell
        
        0
        
        6 November 2020 01: 17
        
        Destroying a civilian plane is, by definition, a war crime, which most likely became the subject of a bargain: the real politic mother is her sorceress. Remember the death of Kursk - the crew went to heaven for everyone, and the rest is a solid "agreement"
2. Dear sofa expert.
  
  +2
  
  4 November 2020 16: 20
  
  Russia does not have a unified state position on Boeing, and Russian specialists are unable to explain or prove anything.
  
  It cannot be a priori, because Russia does not take part in the investigation, and does not have all the necessary materials for this investigation.
  
  And since Russia did not commit this crime, it cannot know all the details of the execution of this atrocity.
  For that, those who did it know it.
  And since the criminals were initially well prepared, the ends of the crime are well entangled.
  
  But no matter how much the rope twists, the end will still be.
  1. molybdenum
    
    -2
    
    4 November 2020 23: 26
    
    It cannot be a priori, because Russia does not take part in the investigation,
    
    What is it like? Those. in your opinion, it turns out that Russia will have a state position only when it is invited to participate, and until that moment it will blink its eyes like now? Are you seriously? Where does it come from, this state position, should it? Explain?
    Imagine that Russia will be called tomorrow to “take part in the analysis”, and what will she present? What are the arguments and evidence? None! Besides our well-known “this is not us,” where are the arguments?
    A criminal always hides the traces of a crime - this is an axiom. The task of the investigation is to find evidence of guilt. Only in exchange for a mitigation of punishment can a criminal cooperate with the investigation, but for this the criminal must first be pressed with facts. What do you think, if Russia is allowed into the process, it will learn something that is currently unknown? Do you think that, conditionally, Ukraine has handed over all the evidence against itself to the international investigation team and is ready to admit it if this catastrophe cannot be pinned on Russia? But. Your childish naivety amazes me. Do you think Putin has some trump cards up his sleeve in this case? Do you think he will pull them out at the decisive moment? Wow! Yes, he is the "naked king" in this matter. Not only does he have no arguments, he doesn't even have sleeves. Russia therefore withdrew from consultations on Boeing because it was unable to resist, as they wrote, "politicized and superficial arguments." In normal human language, this means the following: the specialists representing the Russian side are so stupid that they cannot distinguish between round and red. If Russian specialists, conventionally, are shown a black ball, while saying that it is a white cube, they cannot refute it. There are not enough brains. Yes, this is the most superficial statement, so what? If there are no brains, then yes, then all that remains is to pose as an offended child.
    1. Dear sofa expert.
      
      +2
      
      5 November 2020 10: 40
      
      If Russian specialists ...
      
      Excuse me, I would like to hear the same competent opinion and "Latvian experts" on the downed Boeing.
      
      The fact that your "state position" is stupid to nudge your "elder brothers" and without you everyone knows.
      1. molybdenum
        
        -3
        
        5 November 2020 11: 46
        
        With regard to the "Latvian state position" - it is exactly what you have outlined. What have I got to do with it?
        I expressed my position - read it. If what has already been written does not allow you to understand it, then I will add. How long did it take for Russian specialists to present the data from the route locator? 2 years! It will take another five years to guess that there was also a second track locator - Baturinskoye, if not confusing. Although even at the very first briefing of the Ministry of Defense of 21.08.14, all points of obtaining navigation data were named! How many projections did Russian specialists indicate for the rocket with their characteristics (effective reflection surface)? Two! From the nose and from ... the back side. About the side projection, everyone was silent like partisans during interrogation. And further, an endless list. And if you also add spices here - the very product that the militia still had, and which everyone is looking for with such frenzy - you generally "float".
        Almaz-Antey got involved in this business solely for financial reasons. Commercial markets were closed for him. What can't you do for the money. And I must note that their specialists have worked, unlike, better than all others. True, in my understanding, their main mistake was that they should have detonated a rocket near the IL-86 cockpit in accordance with their own theory of a missile and an aircraft meeting, and not the one that the international investigation insists on.
        
        Dear sofa expert.
        
        +2
        
        5 November 2020 11: 59
        
        How long did it take for Russian specialists to present the data from the route locator?
        
        Were you obliged?
        
        I will not even comment on the rest, written by you, invented for people like you, nonsense.
        
        molybdenum
        
        -3
        
        5 November 2020 16: 57
        
        No, of course we don't. Just because of the lack of reasonable and irrefutable arguments, even the data from the trash can went into battle. Cool data, by the way. They explain a lot. Just a) you need to understand what exactly, and b) present them on time. Apparently, some technician stole this decommissioned hard drive from work for his computer, began to examine the data on it and ... wow, July 14, 2014, a Malaysian Boeing.
        And you really better not comment on the rest, because it can drive you into such an interesting position ... Partly because of this, Russia is so indistinct in defending its line, and that is why I did not give specific documentary facts. I absolutely do not want to shock your weak organisms, nor do I want to help the Dutch.
        
        Dear sofa expert.
        
        +2
        
        5 November 2020 17: 56
        
        and that is why, I did not give specific documentary facts.
        
        You don’t have any facts against Russia, and it cannot be. Like no one else has them. Otherwise they would have been put on public display long ago. In the meantime, so .. as A. Raikin said: "a sweeping blame of epoch-making significance."
        I can prove to you in no time how untenable these accusations are.
        There is simply no need to “throw beads before the next pig”. This topic has already been "sucked" here many times.
        Arguing with you is not constructive, no matter what position you take here.
        
        molybdenum
        
        -3
        
        5 November 2020 22: 47
        
        A wise decision. Indeed, you should not waste your time and your intellect on such a small-beaded pig like me. You should join the powerful team of experts that represent Russia's position on this issue. If you were able to amaze me with the power of your intellect, then I can imagine how these amateurs from the JIT will be flattered and sausage from him.
Sergey Latyshev

-3

4 November 2020 14: 12

Ha. What is this arbitration court?
It seems like a criminal is coming.
Wiring?
1. Dear sofa expert.
  
  +1
  
  4 November 2020 16: 25
  
  Ha. What is this arbitration court? It seems like a criminal is coming. Wiring?
  
  The criminal trial in the case of the Boeing crash will be conducted by a panel of judges, in all, the district court of the Dutch city of The Hague. And what is the essence of the "wiring"?
  1. Sergey Latyshev
    
    0
    
    4 November 2020 18: 21
    
    In the text of the post, the court is called "arbitration".
    Although the main process, they write, goes like a criminal court
    Or is it some other court. Or the author got it wrong. Or I got it wrong. Or is it a wiring. What's true?
    1. Dear sofa expert.
      
      +1
      
      4 November 2020 19: 16
      
      In the text of the post, the court is called "arbitration".
      
      Yes, it looks like a bug.
Oleg Rambover

-3

4 November 2020 21: 11

https://www.mid.ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/4387013

This tripartite commission was supposed to decide on the pre-trial settlement of compensation for the victims' relatives. The Netherlands and Australia are demanding compensation and recognition, the Russian Federation was ready only for compensation. Now they will be charged through the courts.
1. Dear sofa expert.
  
  +1
  
  4 November 2020 23: 05
  
  The Russian Federation was ready only for compensation.
  
  In which paragraph of the text in your link is it written about Russia's readiness for compensation?
  
  Or is it just your personal conclusions?
  1. Oleg Rambover
    
    -3
    
    4 November 2020 23: 34
    
    What else could the RF have consulted with the Netherlands and Australia regarding MH17?
    1. Dear sofa expert.
      
      +2
      
      4 November 2020 23: 48
      
      What else could the RF have consulted with the Netherlands and Australia regarding MH17?
      
      Just like that, just because you don't know what to consult about, do you make such conclusions?
      
      Not serious like that.
      
      Well .. for example: a technical investigation by the Dutch Security Council (DSB), conducted under the regulations and under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). Russia took part in this investigation through the Federal Air Transport Agency.
      
      Or do you somehow especially understand the meaning of the word "consultation"?)
      1. Oleg Rambover
        
        -3
        
        5 November 2020 01: 32
        
        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
        Russia took part in this investigation through the Federal Air Transport Agency.
        
        And what does the Foreign Ministry have to do with it?
        
        https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/9732915
        
        “The Cabinet of Ministers extremely regrets the unilateral decision of the Russian Federation and stresses its commitment to continuing negotiations with the aim of working out a solution that would compensate for the enormous suffering and damage caused by the disaster of flight MH17,” the minister said. was brought to his attention. "
        
        That is, the Russian Foreign Ministry did not know for two years what these consultations, in which he participated, were about? Hmm ...
        Of course, our Foreign Ministry hasn't been shining lately, but I don't think that there are such incompetent employees.
        
        Dear sofa expert.
        
        +2
        
        5 November 2020 01: 43
        
        That is, the Russian Foreign Ministry did not know for two years
        
        You first sent me one link where you made your suggestion.
        
        I asked for a paragraph that would confirm Russia's readiness to pay compensation.
        
        Instead, you cited ignorance of the reasons for the consultation.
        
        For example, I gave you one of the topics.
        
        Now you are sending me another link, in the context of which something dawned on you there again.
        
        Decide already.
        
        Oleg Rambover
        
        -3
        
        5 November 2020 01: 56
        
        Admit it, you, as always, have not read the text of the statement of the Russian Foreign Ministry
        
        However, in all likelihood, Australia and the Netherlands did not seek to understand what actually happened in the summer of 2014, but were only aimed at getting Russia to plead guilty and receive compensation for the relatives of the victims.
        
        From the text of the statement.
        Of course, nowhere will it be said in direct text that you were preparing to pay (What a bad opinion do you have about our Foreign Ministry), but the very fact of two-year negotiations on compensation speaks volumes
        
        Dear sofa expert.
        
        +2
        
        5 November 2020 02: 01
        
        Admit it, you, as always, have not read the text of the statement of the Russian Foreign Ministry
        
        I will disappoint you, but I read it.)
        
        Therefore, I asked to quote what I get again, inherent in you, unintelligible excuses.
        
        So what exactly are your conclusions based on?
        
        And again I will ask: where did you see the fact about "two-year negotiations EXACTLY about compensation" ???
        
        Do you have difficulty understanding Russian-language texts?
        
        Dear sofa expert.
        
        +2
        
        5 November 2020 01: 50
        
        ..... Today we summoned the Russian Ambassador to the Foreign Ministry, and this information was brought to his attention. "
        
        Ah, I think I understand your problem.
        
        And what does the Foreign Ministry have to do with it?
        
        You have misunderstood the text you sent me.
        
        It was necessary to read like this:
        
        Today we, the DUTCHERS, summoned the Russian Ambassador to OUR DUTCH MFA, and this information was brought to his attention. "
        
        I'm right?)
        
        Oleg Rambover
        
        -3
        
        5 November 2020 02: 00
        
        I have no problem. You have in the wriggle in the pan.
        
        Dear sofa expert.
        
        +2
        
        5 November 2020 02: 06
        
        In addition, when in 2018 we agreed to hold trilateral consultations with Australia and the Netherlands on the entire range of issues related to the circumstances of the crash of flight MH17, we proceeded from the fact that such consultations would help to establish, based on facts, the true causes of the crash of flight MH17. ... However, in all likelihood, Australia and the Netherlands did not seek to understand what actually happened in the summer of 2014, but were only aimed at getting Russia to plead guilty and receive compensation for the relatives of the victims.
        
        As I understand it, this is the key paragraph in our dispute?
        
        Try to read it more carefully and syllabically.)
        
        By wriggling (the word is what))) in a frying pan - It is you who are the "champion of the world and its surroundings (as well as your companion, with a verb in the past tense (Kuril ..)))
        
        Oleg Rambover
        
        -3
        
        6 November 2020 00: 56
        
        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
        Try to read it more carefully and syllabically.)
        
        At your age, it's time to read fluently. What part of this text is causing you difficulties? By the way, have you met anything about ICAO in the text?
        As I understand it, reading causes you some difficulties, but do not consider it a work.
        
        https://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/3512294
        
        As you can see, back in February 19, the Foreign Ministry guessed what it would be about (you shouldn't be talking about our diplomats).
        
        https://nos.nl/artikel/2277752-nederland-en-australie-spraken-met-rusland-over-aansprakelijkheid-mh17.html
        
        The Netherlands and Australia did not hide what they wanted.
        And consultations went on for two years.
        
        Quote: Dear sofa expert.
        By wriggling (the word is what))) in a frying pan
        
        Well darling, what are you. Did I start talking nonsense about ICAO? Did I talk nonsense about
        
        Today we DUTCHES have summoned OUR DUTCH MFA ...
        
        So let's dance your jig-jig further.
        PS RF will pay compensation to the relatives of the victims, I think, within 5 years.
        
        Dear sofa expert.
        
        +2
        
        6 November 2020 02: 44
        
        PS RF will pay compensation to the relatives of the victims, I think, within 5 years.
        
        We will see)
Barmaley_2

+2

5 November 2020 02: 11

justification and evidence that it was Ukraine that shot down, if they are brought down, they will not change ANYTHING anyway! The guilty have long been appointed and all the dogs have been lowered, the map has been played and that game has been lost. And therefore it will be, as in the joke: spoons were found, but the sediment remained. The only thing + is that if they appoint to pay the grannies to the victims, it will fall on the shoulders of Ukraine. That's all the maximum benefit that will be from reassigning the culprit. I think that this amount can hardly be a complete consolation with such a powerful negative effect from the received informational blow below the belt.
1. Dear sofa expert.
  
  +2
  
  5 November 2020 02: 18
  
  The perpetrators have long been appointed and all the dogs have been let down
  
  In principle, your revelation appeals to me.
  I would like to clarify, who exactly are the “dogs” that were launched?
  And here's another addition to yours:
  
  spoons were found, but the sediment remained.
  
  I'd rather say:
  Dogs bark, Crimea remains.)
amateur

+4

5 November 2020 18: 18

Quote: Valentine
At that time I was forty kilometers from the crash site and heard on VHF an excerpt from the conversation of the Horlivka garrison commander Bezler, who was at the crash site after 40 minutes, and talked to someone on walkie-talkies,

For the information of the author: VHF from an antenna of 30 meters can be heard ~ 30 km. Well, woki-toki from hand / hand works (according to the passport) for 2 miles (3.6 km) but really for 2 km. You can hear it 40 km away only by sticking the antenna in one place.