Russia will lose along with Nagorno-Karabakh


The battle for Nagorno-Karabakh is developing according to a scenario unfavorable for the Armenian side. Having enlisted the support of the Turks, the Azerbaijani army is gradually moving forward.


On the eve, a representative of the Nagorno-Karabakh army admitted that it was forced to make a "tactical retreat", yielding several villages to Baku:

In some sectors of the front, the Defense Army pulled back troops to avoid unnecessary casualties.

Apparently, the situation is quite serious. In Yerevan, Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan was forced to declare the introduction of martial law and the conscription of recently demobilized servicemen into the Armenian army. The head of state called on to prevent another Armenian genocide. All this indicates the possibility of the transition of an armed conflict to a higher stage.

The Azerbaijani army numbers about 75 thousand people, while due to mobilization, its number was brought to 85 thousand. Yerevan has only 42 thousand soldiers, that is, it is twice as low. In addition to this, Nagorno-Karabakh has its own army, numbering 20 thousand servicemen, also having a mobilization reserve of another 20 thousand. Theoretically, the combined forces of Yerevan and Stepanakert can be equal in number to the forces at the disposal of Baku. But even here everything is not easy.

Turkey is openly behind Azerbaijan's back. Ankara and Tel Aviv pumped up the army of Baku with the most modern types of weapons, which made it objectively the strongest in the region. Military, economic and the mobilization potential of the alliance between Turkey and Azerbaijan will not leave a chance for Armenia and the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic to withstand if the confrontation becomes protracted. Yerevan will be the first to run out of resources. It is obvious that Turkish F-16 fighters appeared in the air over Karabakh to exert psychological pressure on the enemy. Russia could change the alignment by taking the side of Armenia. But for a number of reasons, the Kremlin will not do this. As long as the hostilities are taking place in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, which is legally part of Azerbaijan, Moscow has no reason to get involved in this conflict. Yes, and a special desire, let's be honest. What Yerevan can really count on is the supply of weapons.

However, it should be pointed out that such policy laissez-faire can have negative consequences for our country. President Aliyev stated that the war will end when the army of this unrecognized republic leaves Nagorno-Karabakh. Let us recall that this is about 20 thousand people. They will not leave of their own accord; this will happen only as a result of a complete military defeat. The question is, where will they go next?

To Armenia? Quite possible. And maybe further, to Russia: to the Krasnodar Territory, to the Rostov Region, etc. These are thousands of people who fought, fired at and angry at Moscow. It is not hard to imagine how complicated the crime situation in the Russian south, and throughout the country too, can be after this.
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  1. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
    Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) 6 October 2020 15: 15
    -1
    and who will let them into Russia? The "angry" Tajiks were deported to their homeland in whole trains. let them take away the anger on the rams. Russia did not force the Armenians to take away the Karabakhs.
    1. Sergey Sfiedu Offline Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu (Sergey Sfyedu) 6 October 2020 17: 57
      -1
      Let me go. On a completely legal basis. Armenia has an agreement with Russia, its citizens can come, live and work in Russia.
      1. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
        Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) 6 October 2020 18: 01
        +3
        will you let me live and work? i definitely not
        1. Sergey Sfiedu Offline Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu (Sergey Sfyedu) 6 October 2020 18: 04
          -1
          Not you, but you. If you were in the south of Russia, you would know how many Armenians there are already. However, the north is full of them. So they will not come to an empty place. Already in some places small business is entirely in the hands of Caucasians. Well, it will be even better.
          1. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
            Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) 6 October 2020 18: 09
            0
            I was in the south. and I know that under them is the floor of Rostov. besides, the Caucasus is not only Armenians. There are also Azerbaijanis who are driving out the Armenians. so it won't be better for them. if the pogroms that they can arrange as in the 90s is not considered the best option.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  2. ioan-e Offline ioan-e
    ioan-e (Boris) 6 October 2020 15: 33
    +1
    The level of analytics is approximately the same - a fish swims in a pond and it has scales, and if it had wool, it would have fleas, but fleas ...... Sergey Marzhetsky, what did you want to say? We understand perfectly well that, whatever the outcome of the conflict, Moscow will suffer losses, at least reputational losses, because there is no choice between good and bad, there is a choice between bad and even worse. But in order for this choice to appear, it is necessary to start playing ahead of the curve, but this requires a nationally oriented elite, which, unlike the current one, will not be held by the West for money, real estate and families! With the current "conciliators" in power, the GDP will not fight much!
  3. Many_ways_point Offline Many_ways_point
    Many_ways_point 6 October 2020 15: 49
    -9
    It's too late to drink Borjomi. Russia lost when Putin decided to save Erdogan from a coup instead of just doing nothing. but these are still flowers. The berries will come when the Turks make their own F35 and S400 and start building the Great Turan.
    1. ioan-e Offline ioan-e
      ioan-e (Boris) 6 October 2020 16: 00
      +2
      Your comment is the position of the blind! It's easier to deal with one mad dog than a pack of disciplined dogs led by a hardened wolf! If Erdogan had not been saved, the US six would have come to power and the straits would have been closed for the Russian Federation long ago, and a considerable part of the 6 US fleet was based in the ports of Turkey, with singers to boot!
      1. Many_ways_point Offline Many_ways_point
        Many_ways_point 6 October 2020 16: 46
        -4
        And your comments are just unreasoned nonsense with Wishlist.
        There is no need for the US to fight the Russian Federation. If they wish, they can destroy the Russian Federation as a state economically, 50% of the income is a tax on oil and gas.
        If Erdogan had not been saved, there would now be Poland number 2, mired in the revolutionaries' own showdowns. This is maximum.
        But now, in addition to the pack with the Wolf and the dogs, there is also a mad dog. Show Polish at whom she can rush or guess yourself?
        And the 6th fleet does not need to climb into the Black Sea puddle. He shoots everything from the Mediterranean Sea.
    2. General Black Offline General Black
      General Black (Gennady) 7 October 2020 10: 06
      +2
      It's too late to drink Borjomi. The Russian Federation lost when the underdog decided to save Erdogan from a coup, instead of just doing nothing.

      Well, he would have been even more smart than now.
  4. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 6 October 2020 16: 18
    -7
    Russia will lose along with Nagorno-Karabakh

    - And Russia has no other way but ... to lose ...
    -Of course ... sooner or later Russia will jump into this conflict ... -Probably first it will try to use the Chechen battalions ... -Just here's the catch ... -will these Chechen battalions want to go there ... -Most likely not. ..
    -So Russian troops will go there and suffer terrible losses ... -And what can the Russian Army use there ??? - Apply tanks ??? -It will simply turn into a terrible disaster for the Russian army ... -the area is mountainous, hilly and completely unfamiliar, there is no cover; and the mercenaries probably have "TOW" (and even "Javelins") ... - Helicopters (as a cover) will not help there either ... -they can also be knocked down with various MANPADS ... -Use the "Tornado" MLRS and " Tornado "and so on ... -that's also impossible ... there are a lot of different settlements ... -and Russia will be immediately accused of killing civilians ... -So many" different videos "will be posted on the net; that ... before the Geneva Convention, you will have to justify ... -And use the forces of the Aerospace Forces to deliver pinpoint and all kinds of strikes (the Aerospace Forces is the weakest link in the Russian Army) ... - it will also not work ... .. -In Karabakh it is no longer possible to portray and imitate the "successful actions" of the Aerospace Forces ... as it happens in Syria ...
    -Therefore, nevertheless ... -personally I think that Russia will come up with something so as not to get into this military adventure ... -Hope is only for this ...
  5. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 6 October 2020 16: 31
    -5
    And what?
    Let's remember: in Armenia, the Maidan, the sniper, the biological laboratory, and the president-for-life prime minister were driven out.
    In Azerbaijan: there was no Maidan, life-long Aliyevs, gas, Strategy 2025, our partner Endogan, and a bunch of volunteer shepherds from the south.

    The choice is clear.
    1. Sergey Sfiedu Offline Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu (Sergey Sfyedu) 6 October 2020 18: 01
      +2
      At one time, Aliyev brought his own Maidan to power, but we no longer remember this. For Russia, that it is bad to interfere, that not to interfere, it was necessary to prevent the war earlier, but for brilliant tacticians, the strategy is not interesting.
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 6 October 2020 18: 49
        -1
        That was the correct Maidan. After the USSR. 93 years like?
        According to VVP, it was the communists who ruined everything ... Russia withdrew its troops and the Maidan became correct, after all, the Aliyevs agreed with Yeltsin and entered the CIS.
    2. Sergey Sfiedu Offline Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu (Sergey Sfyedu) 6 October 2020 18: 05
      +1
      By the way, Aliyev was brought to power by his own Maidan. Everyone just forgot about it.
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 6 October 2020 18: 45
        -1
        That was the correct Maidan. 93 years like?
  6. Bakht Offline Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 6 October 2020 18: 08
    -4
    The analytics are getting worse and worse ....
    Okay. Will have to be on the fingers. What is Russia's goal in the post-Soviet space? The maximum program is to draw the former republics into their sphere of influence. This is hardly achievable. But this is the maximum.
    The minimum program is to make the former Soviet republics neutral. This is achievable in some areas. Specifically - the South Caucasus. Georgia was forced to peace in 2008. This did not make Georgia neutral, but at least stopped its drift to the West. In any case, there are no horror films going on there.
    The Karabakh conflict is an opportunity for Russia to play on contradictions and keep Armenia and Azerbaijan on a close leash.
    But then an incident happened and the pro-Western Pashinyan came to power in Armenia. In Azerbaijan, the government is not entirely pro-Russian either, but Azerbaijan has and wants to deepen economic ties with Russia and does not allow third countries to enter its territory. Where Pashinyan will lead Armenia - let the Russian users of the site say. Otherwise I will be accused of bias.
    And then, as punishment, the Azerbaijani army launched the long-awaited operation to clean up Karabakh. And what do we see? Russia is silent. Russia only guarantees the immunity of Armenia directly. Karabakh is a showdown between Azerbaijan and Armenia. As soon as the Azerbaijani army crosses the red line (the border of Armenia) and the punishment is inevitable. That is why Aliyev does not bomb Armenian cities in response to shelling and provocations. But as soon as Armenia takes at least one step towards the West, the Azerbaijani army may not stop at the border.
    And when Pashinyan says that there is a danger for the Armenian statehood, he is 100% right plus 1%. Should Pashinyan play with Macron or leave the CSTO, Russia will not guarantee the immunity of Armenia.
    My opinion: Russia solves its problems in the South Caucasus with the blood of Azerbaijani soldiers. This is not a reproach. Anyway, no one except Azerbaijanis will conquer Karabakh. So the current war is a lesson and punishment for Armenia Pashinyan. In this case, the interests of Russia and Azerbaijan coincide. But only at this stage. One careless move from Yerevan or Baku and the punishment will follow immediately. Armenia must remember that there are almost 20 fresh soldiers in Nakhichevan, fully equipped. This is according to the Stockholm Institute.
    They have been chatting about Sultan Erdogan for 10 days. Nonsense. I can only remember a famous phrase

    "Stop comparing Putin to the Lord God. Of course this guy is good, but he is far from Putin!"
    1. Valentine Offline Valentine
      Valentine (Valentin) 6 October 2020 19: 16
      +1
      That's right, Bakhtiyar. Russia won't lift a finger for Karabakh, and it's written about Armenia itself with a pitchfork on the water, although there is a CSTO, but after almost three years of Armenian Russophobia, with the murders of Russian soldiers in Gyumri, and an attempt to expel this military base from Armenia, and an attempt to create a museum of the Soviet occupation there, pumping the heads of Armenian youth with anti-Russian sentiments, if not hatred, then our policy of non-interference with Pashinyan’s power is understandable. If Aliyev does not send troops into Armenia itself, but he does not need it, then this protracted territorial dispute will finally be resolved, but a lot of blood will be shed from both sides, but also Kyrgyzstan was honored, and a political mess began there too ... Ukraine, Belarus, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan - who is next ???
    2. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) 6 October 2020 21: 26
      +1
      Quote: Bakht
      The analytics are getting worse and worse ....

      Here you are undoubtedly right.

      Quote: Bakht
      The Karabakh conflict is an opportunity for Russia to play on contradictions and keep Armenia and Azerbaijan on a close leash.

      Everything is clear with Armenia, and as far as I know, Azerbaijan does not depend on Russia like Armenia and is pursuing its own line in foreign policy.

      Quote: Bakht
      And what do we see? Russia is silent.

      And what can she do in this situation - only issue appeals for peace addressed to the parties to the conflict ...

      Quote: Bakht
      Russia solves its problems in the South Caucasus with the blood of Azerbaijani soldiers.

      She will not solve her problems in this way, but will rather aggravate them. If the Azerbaijanis take Nagorno-Karabakh, with the inaction of the Russians, this will finally alienate the Armenians from Moscow, and the Azerbaijanis are not very attached to the former metropolis, they will continue to be friends with Turkey, Israel and pursue an independent policy. And, of course, the economic aspect - after the effective actions of Turkish and Israeli UAVs in the battles for Karabakh against the Armenian military armed with Russian weapons, the demand for the products of the Russian military-industrial complex in the world will inevitably decrease ...
      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 6 October 2020 22: 05
        0
        Putin and Lavrov have been urging people to show reason for years. Lavrov's plan was to liberate 5 districts and unblock transport arteries. Russia needs a land connection with Armenia and with its base in Gyumri. The Armenians refused. Even now, I. Aliyev declares that if the Armenian army leaves Karabakh, the borders will open and in a few years it will be possible to carry out joint economic projects.
        Armenia is still drifting to the West. But only now it dawned on Pashinyan that the West would not help him. And statehood can be lost. But this is already prohibitive. Personally, I take the position that three states in the South Caucasus have already taken place. If the Armenians finally turn away from Moscow, then God himself will not help them. Not in the sense of being destroyed by military means. Economically. Let them look at Ukraine.
        The demand for the products of the Russian military-industrial complex will not decrease. And if Russia also starts the production of precision weapons, it will be quite good.
        ----
        As Alfred the Great said:

        War does not create wealth. Wealth is created by peace and trade.

        What is wrong with neutral Azerbaijan, which does not allow the creation of foreign military infrastructure on its territory?
        1. Bakht Offline Bakht
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 6 October 2020 22: 10
          0
          I still stand for dialogue. The best playground in Tbilisi. This will suit both Armenia and Azerbaijan.
          After that, the second comprehensive agreement between the major players: Russia, Turkey and Iran. You can also choose Moscow for this. But best of all is Tehran. This will clearly demonstrate that nothing shines for the United States or Europe in this region. And Russia will secure its southern flank.
          If there is an agreement between the three major players, this region will become inaccessible to the united West. Moreover, all three major players have one or another claim to the West. And they have more or less common interests.
          1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
            Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 7 October 2020 04: 41
            -1
            Your arguments are logical enough, but they do not cover several points.
            1. At the moment, the war does not take place on the territory of Karabakh proper. The hostilities cover areas captured by Armenia from Azerbaijan outside this enclave. And it is unlikely that the situation in this area will fundamentally change. Taking into account the powerful layered defense of the Armenians and weather conditions.
            2. With regard to resources. You do not take into account the position of Iran, which can play the role of Turkey for Azerbaijan for Armenia. Ankara's strengthening in the Caspian and the Caucasus is hardly interesting to Iran, as well as the Russian Federation.
            3. Strikes against non-military targets of the enemy are made by both sides. This is an indirect sign that the psychological impact is increasing on both sides. To impose their conditions, relying on civilian discontent with the war and panic.
            4. The position of the Russian Federation may change in favor of Yerevan, after the de-occupation of seven regions.
            5. It seems that, taking into account Pashinyan's statement about mutual compromises, there is a probing of positions on resolving the conflict based on the Goble formula. Pashinyan, as for me, will go into political oblivion. Armenia will lose, but dosed. Karabakh will remain with her.
            1. Bakht Offline Bakht
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 October 2020 10: 25
              +2
              1. Military operations are also being conducted on the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh. You have incorrect data. The offensive continues in the Jabrayil direction. Goal - Gubatly and access to the Armenian-Azerbaijani border
              2. Iran has already officially declared its support for the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. Iran's only demand is not to transfer hostilities to its territory.
              3. The shelling of Stepanakert is related to the shelling of the civilian infrastructure of Azerbaijan. They started AFTER the strike on Ganja and Mingechaur.
              4. Russia's position will definitely change after the de-occupation of the FIVE regions. Apparently, Kelbajar and Lachin will remain with the Armenians for now. This is "Lavrov's plan"
              5. There will be no Gobbl plan. There will be Lavrov's formula. Western recommendations won't work here.
              ------
              The battles showed that Armenia alone cannot do anything. Therefore, it must become a protectorate of Russia. Considering the mood in the Armenian society, this is unrealistic. As a result of the war, hostility towards Russia will only grow. Karabakh will sooner or later become Azerbaijani. Armenia cannot hold him back.
              1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
                Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 7 October 2020 14: 33
                -1
                You should not pass off what you want as reality. You state your point of view quite correctly and logically. But unfortunately, do not provide any actual data. Agree that clichés like "the offensive continues" do not clarify the situation. Another stamp is "Sooner or later Karabakh will be Azerbaijani." Well, that's all right. Maybe it will, maybe not. Today, it is enough to compare the names of the villages occupied with the battle by Azerbaijan with the map of military operations. That is exactly what I did: the battles are not being fought on the territory of Karabakh. Alas. By resources. Armenia is a poor country - GDP-13 billion dollars, 4200 dollars per year per capita. Azerbaijan is poorer - 43 billion dollars. , $ 4700 per nose. But not far away. Compare with 9 million Israel with its GDP -405 billion dollars. and 21 thousand dollars per year per capita. Approximately as in Germany. This is a rich country. And here: in resources, emotions, mentality - Azerbaijan and Armenia are similar as twins. For me personally, as a person, Azerbaijan is prettier because of the good attitude towards Jews and Israel. I have very few acquaintances among Azerbaijanis and Armenians. From the intelligentsia. All excellent and decent, smart guys. And those and others. It is difficult for me, and I don’t presume, to judge the stability of Pashinyan’s positions in Armenia - Aliyev in Baku. You know this better. But what happens from the outside is on the surface.
                1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                  Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 October 2020 23: 16
                  +2
                  The battles are being fought in the Agderinsky direction. This is Mardakert, a regional center in Nagorno-Karabakh.
                  Magadiz was renamed to Sugovushan. This is also the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh. In the southern direction of Fizuli, Jebrail is really outside of Nagorno-Karabakh.
                  -----
                  Actually, in Azerbaijan, the majority do not understand me. Nagorno-Karabakh may remain Armenian, but within Azerbaijan on the basis of autonomy. To my great regret, the Armenians do not understand me either. They said a hundred times that they own these lands by the right of war. Or "come and win back." Well, they came to win back. What are they unhappy with? Or it was argued that the occupied areas constituted a "security belt." Although they were told a hundred times that this is a "danger belt". That the army of Nagorno-Karabakh is the strongest in the South Caucasus. All this vanished like smoke.
                  The return of even five regions OUTSIDE Nagorno-Karabakh in Yerevan is not even considered.
                  I. Aliyev expressed his point of view: the return of the regions, a clear plan for the withdrawal of the occupation forces under international control and the war will end.
                  ----
                  What happens on the surface is not always true.
  7. orange Offline orange
    orange (ororpore) 6 October 2020 18: 12
    0
    In general, what are these conclusions based on? This is provocation and incitement. The author drowns for the Armenians. Does Russia already have enemies up to its throat, only Azerbaijan is missing on the list? Well, if the khachiks are loose, that is, Russia has the National Guard.
  8. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 6 October 2020 23: 27
    +3
    I don’t think that Russia will lose here. Having received in the horns Armenia, sick with Russophobia, perhaps it will understand that it actually stands without the Russian Federation, but it does not cost much.
  9. NOSOROG_2 Offline NOSOROG_2
    NOSOROG_2 (Sergey Karpov) 7 October 2020 05: 04
    0
    Children, women, and men, what will they do in RUSSIA?
  10. Sergey Novitsky Offline Sergey Novitsky
    Sergey Novitsky (Sergey Novitsky) 7 October 2020 08: 21
    +2
    Again horror stories, then the Chinese are scared, then the Asian hard workers are now Armenian militants, there are strong special services in Russia, and the special forces, the army will finally catch all the militants like sheep, shove them into the wagons and take someone back home, someone to "felling" and not long.
  11. Lyubov Vasilievna (Lyubov Vasilievna) 7 October 2020 09: 57
    +1
    I am more concerned about the Islamization of Russia, in particular Moscow. Armenians are a Christian people. And as far as I know them they are benevolent, polite and hospitable towards Russians. Those who live in Russia for more than three pokalens, collapse. Many do not know their native language. Russian is their native language. But Muslims are never associated. Rather, all of us will be pushed under themselves. Constantinople is a vivid example of this, now their president has world ambitions. That is whom the Russians should be afraid of, not the Armenians. Who forgot, open history and see how many times Russia fought with Turkey? My husband and I have been to Adler several times, but there are many Armenians there, but they did not bother us. Have you been to Alera in winter? There is really nothing to do there. There is no work, the children's infrastructure is poorly developed. Many Russians are fleeing from there, it is not at all clear how people survive there ?! Let me remind many of those sitting here about Sergei Nikolaevich Galitsky / Harutyunyan /, who is Armenian, he is an honorary resident of Krasnodar. Krasnodar people do not like it. He built one of the most beautiful parks in Europe for his own money. The park is absolutely free. Children's football schools in every district of the city are also free. Has at least one Russian or another oligarch done so much for his hometown? Are you afraid of the Armenians? You are not afraid of those. It is a shame that Russians do not know their history!
  12. amateur Offline amateur
    amateur (Victor) 7 October 2020 10: 20
    0
    These are thousands of people who fought, fired at and angry at Moscow.

    Moscow where? Was it she who put the Russophobe Pashinyan on the throne? Moscow urgently needs to close its base in Gyumri and leave the border between Armenia and Turkey open. After that, all anti-Russian sentiments will be blown away by the wind. And for the return of the base it will be possible to demand money, if, of course, they find some money somewhere.
    ps And the Armenians are very fond of France. And they are much better as emigrants for France than the Arabs.
  13. Lysik001 Offline Lysik001
    Lysik001 (boy Seryozha) 7 October 2020 11: 51
    +1
    Nobody goes anywhere further! And if they do, we will accept everyone and calm everyone down very quickly! Russia will definitely not fight for Karabakh and this is absolutely correct! If VVP sent our children there, and God forbid anyone died, they would have eaten it here without onions and salt! I would be the first to scream like a cut. Moreover, an unshaven one must be cured so that he would know his place and all who had the stupidity to vote for him! Is this a harsh citizen judge? Severely ...
  14. Kuramori Reika Offline Kuramori Reika
    Kuramori Reika (Kuramori Reika) 7 October 2020 14: 10
    +2
    We would be talking about a friendly population, it would be so, but we are talking about the next "non-brothers", so their fate and survival are indifferent to us.
  15. Seal Offline Seal
    Seal (Sergey Petrovich) 7 October 2020 15: 36
    +1
    Turkey stands openly behind Azerbaijan's back

    Azerbaijan has been trying to stand behind our back for 30 years. But Armenia is already firmly established there. So, what do we now blame Azerbaijan for? That he got sick of waiting for help from us and decided to turn to others?
  16. Seal Offline Seal
    Seal (Sergey Petrovich) 7 October 2020 15: 39
    +2
    Quote: Lyubov Vasilievna
    Who forgot, open history and see how many times Russia fought with Turkey?

    Most of all we fought with the Lithuanians. Since we had a period of feudal fragmentation, and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was a single state, it attacked this or our principality almost every year. Well, our principalities periodically responded with campaigns against the Lithuanians. In total, there were more than 40 Russian-Lithuanian military conflicts. And then not all are counted.
    Then the Poles come. About 20 wars, including their three Polish uprisings, which were steeper in scale than our other war with Turkey (1794 - Kosciuszko uprising; 1830-1831 November uprising; 1863-1864 January uprising).
    Then there are wars with the Swedes. 17 wars, not counting the border conflicts of 1375-1396.
    And only then are the Russian-Turkish wars (12 wars). Moreover, in 8 wars we were the initiators, in 3 - Turkey, and one war (World War I) began, as it were, mutually. First, the provocations of Armenian fideas that crossed from our territory to the territory of Turkey, then the shelling of our coastal cities with ships under Turkish flags, then we declared war on Turkey.
    Yes, I forgot, about how many battles various Russian principalities had with the crusaders - even history does not remember about that.
    By duration, the longest are not Russian-Ottoman, but Russian-Polish wars. In total, we fought with the Poles for over 100 years.
    The bloodiest are the Russian-German wars. In total, the Germans accounted for two world wars - over 30 million lives of our compatriots.
    The Ottomans never made us such tricks as:
    - Swedes after the miserable battle for us at Fraustadt, held on February 2, 1706 (Julian calendar); February 3, 1706 (Swedish calendar); February 13, 1706 (Gregorian calendar) when the victorious Swedes stabbed 4 of our prisoners with cold steel.

    In the battle of Fraustadt, an incomprehensible, truly bestial cruelty of the Swedes was revealed regarding the Russians. Indeed, in this combined army of the Saxon general Schulenburg, who suffered such a rout, there were Saxons, Poles, and even the French, who served in the Saxon army, and, finally, the Russians. After their victory (February 3, 1706), the Swedish army captured all those who were not killed and did not have time to escape. Everyone except the Russians! "Many Russians were beaten as well, and which of the soldiers were taken to full, and with those the enemy zealously acted mercilessly, according to the royal decree issued earlier about them, so as not to give them pardon (or mercy), and scolding people 2 and 3 one another stabbed them with spears and baguettes (bayonets. - E.T.) In such a barbaric way the Swedes exterminated 4 thousand disarmed Russian prisoners after the battle.

    E. V. Tarle. "The Northern War and the Swedish Invasion of Russia"

    - Germans who attacked us without declaring war on 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX. The Ottomans, if they themselves started, first, by all the rules, declared war on us, and hostilities began somewhere in half a year after the announcement. And even later.
    - Poles who literally crap Kremlin churches.
    So why should we assume that the Ottomans are worse than the Swedes, Poles or Germans?
    In addition, not the Turks, not the Azerbaijanis, but the Armenians, went as mercenaries to Khan Mamai and went with him to conquer Russia.

    On the same autumn, when the Horde prince came, Prince Mamai ate his unanimous souls, and with all the other princes of the Horde, and with all the power of Totarskaya and Polovetskaya, and also ratified Bessermen, and Armenians, and Fryazy, Cherkasy, and Yasa, and Bourta.

    Novgorod IV Chronicle. PSRL. T. 4, part 1. P. 311

    It is clear that you do not like this. But the Chronicles, like the Manuscripts - to your disappointment, do not burn !!
    1. Seal Offline Seal
      Seal (Sergey Petrovich) 7 October 2020 15: 51
      +2
      So there were 12 wars. Let's analyze them all. Let's start with the first one.
      1) In 1569, the Turks laid siege to Astrakhan.
      But how long before Astrakhan was ours?
      In fact, Tsar Ivan the Terrible on July 2, 1556, annexed Astrakhan to the Russian state and liquidated the Astrakhan Khanate.
      Astrakhan Khan and his family members fled to Turkey.
      The Sultan, who was part-time as the Caliph of all Muslims, was OBLIGED to protect Muslims. Suleiman stretched out for time and died. His son Selim, who is a drunkard, purely formally sent not God knows what army to protect the offended Astrakhan Khan.
      It's unfortunate. Not protected.
      That is, even according to modern norms of international law, that war on the part of Turkey was completely legal.
      2) Chigirin campaigns 1672-1681
      Getman of Right-Bank Ukraine Petro Doroshenko fell under Turkish influence. Fearing an invasion of Left-Bank Ukraine, Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich ordered regular troops and Cossacks to begin hostilities against the Turks and Doroshenko's troops.
      As a result, the Russians and Zaporozhtsy jointly occupied the city of Chigirin. Subsequently, he passed from hand to hand more than once, and the war ended with the Bakhchisaray Peace Treaty of the Year 1681, which secured the border between Russia and Turkey along the Dnieper.
      Is Turkey to blame?
      3). Russian-Turkish war 1686-1700
      The basis of the anti-Turkish coalition in that war was laid by Austria and Poland. Russia entered the war in 1686, when another war with the Poles ended in a peace treaty. Crimean troops from 1682, regularly invaded Russian territory. It should stop. The rules in Moscow then princess Sophia. In 1687 and 1689, her right hand — the boyar Vasily Golitsyn — took trips to the Crimea.
      However, he could not manage to supply the troops with fresh water, and the campaigns had to be interrupted. Peter I, entrenched on the throne, suffered military operations under the Azov. The first Azov campaign, 1695, ended in failure, but in 1696, the Russian troops under the command of our first generalissimo Alexei Shein managed to force the fortress to surrender. In 1700, the capture of Azov was enshrined in the Treaty of Constantinople.
      Krymchaks attacked us and Poland.
      Cossacks attacked Crimea and Turkey.
      The Turkish Sultan in front of our Tsar and the Polish King denied himself from the raids of the Tatars. Our Tsar and the Polish King in the same way always denied to the Sultan from the raids of the Cossacks. They say that the Cossacks are walking people (free), they do not obey us.
      1. Seal Offline Seal
        Seal (Sergey Petrovich) 7 October 2020 15: 51
        +2
        4) Prut campaign 1710-1713
        After the Poltava collapse, the Swedish king Charles XII hid in Turkey. Tsar Peter I demanded the extradition of Charles XII, Turkey refused. Then Peter personally led the campaign against Turkey. The Russian army moved towards the Prut. The Turks managed to concentrate a huge army there: together with the Crimean cavalry, there were about 200 thousand of them. In New Stalinesti, our troops were surrounded.
        The Turkish assault managed to repel, the Ottomans with losses retreated. However, the position of Peter's army became desperate because of the actual blockade. Under the terms of the Prut Peace Treaty, the Turks pledged to release the Russian army from the encirclement.
        But Russia promised to give Turkey Azov, to tear down the fortifications of Taganrog and a number of other southern forts, to give Karl XII the opportunity to move to Sweden.
        5) Russian-Turkish war 1735-1739
        We have declared war. The new war was supposed to “stop the ongoing Crimean raids”.
        6). Russian-Turkish war 1768-1774
        Sultan Mustafa III declared war on Russia, taking advantage of the following reason: a detachment of Zaporozhye Cossacks, pursuing the Poles, burst into the city of Balta, which belonged to the Ottoman Empire, and pretty much destroyed the city, cutting off, as usual, many Jews. But not just Jews, but Jews - subjects of the Ottoman Empire.
        Well, here everyone is free to count as he wants.
        We won and took part of the Crimea from the Crimean Khanate - Kerch and the Kerch Peninsula.
        7). Russian-Turkish war 1787-1791
        On the eve of this war, the entire Crimea and Kuban were already part of the Russian Empire. That the Turks were offended. Turkey was not satisfied with the Treaty of St. George, concluded between Russia and the Georgian kingdom. Istanbul issued an ultimatum to Russia demanding that it abandon Crimea and Georgia. So a new war began.
        8). Here the French were stirring up.
        In 1804, the Serbs revolted under the leadership of Karageorgiy. Despite the fact that the rebels turned to St. Petersburg for help, their request was received more than coolly: with an indication that petitions should be addressed first of all to Istanbul, to their own ruler. The king did not want to quarrel with the Turks on the eve of the war with Napoleon. Nevertheless, Napoleonic ambassador to Istanbul, General Sebastiani, was able to convince the Sultan that it was the Russians who were helping the Serbs in the guerrilla war in the Balkans. The diplomatic combinations skillfully played out by the French gave their generous fruits - the role of Russia in the Serbian issue was an old and painful pet peeve for the Turks, on which Sebastiani skillfully pressed.
        In the fall of 1806, Istanbul went to a direct violation of the treaty with St. Petersburg, unilaterally displacing the rulers of Moldova and Wallachia. According to the diplomatic protocol, this procedure could only go through the courts and in agreement with the Russian side. The dismissal of the Lords Muruzi and Ypsilanti was a direct non-observance of the previously reached agreements, which could not be let down on the brakes. The situation was complicated by the fact that Alexander I could not fail to respond to such a violation, but at that moment the emperor was bound by the war with Napoleon. In order to somehow react to the Turkish demarches, the official Petersburg finally decided to provide Karageorgy with more substantial assistance than excuses about appealing to its own ruler and so on, "well, you hang on there." On September 24, 1806, Alexander I signed a decree ordering to send 18 thousand gold pieces of gold and weapons to the Serbs.
        Back in April 1806, the grand vizier expressed this position in a demand for the Russian ambassador A. Ya. Italinsky to reduce the number of Russian ships passing through the straits. And in the fall of 1806, the Turks announced a ban on the passage of warships under the St. Andrew's flag through the Bosphorus and Dardanelles, and significant restrictions were imposed on the passage of merchant ships.
        On October 4, 1806, Emperor Alexander I signed an order: the commander of the Russian southern army, cavalry general Ivan Ivanovich Mikhelson, was ordered to cross the Dniester and occupy the Moldavian principalities with the entrusted troops.
        At the insistence of the French ambassador, on December 18, 1806, Sultan Selim III declared war on the Russian Empire.
        1. Seal Offline Seal
          Seal (Sergey Petrovich) 7 October 2020 15: 53
          +2
          9). Russian-Turkish war 1828-1829
          Greeks and Bulgarians from the beginning of the 19th century began to advocate independence from Turkey. Russia under Alexander I took a position of non-interference. With the accession of Nicholas I, the position of St. Petersburg on the Greek issue began to change, our volunteers reached Greece, who began to actively help the Greeks.
          Sultan Mahmud II in response began to strengthen the Danube fortresses and, in violation of treaties, blocked the Bosphorus. Emperor Nicholas I declared war on Turkey. Fighting began in Moldavia and Wallachia, as well as in the Caucasus.
          ten). Crimean War 10-1853
          In the Ottoman Empire, and specifically in Bethlehem, Orthodox and Catholics clashed (well, the Armenians also ran between their legs and interfered with both) over who would be honored to block the rotted roof of the Temple of the Lord.
          Instead of sitting down and agreeing, yielding to each other in everything, as befits good Christians, good Christians began to complain to the Sultan and gave the question to his decision. The Sultan, in order not to offend either one or the other, announced that he would close the roof of the Temple himself, at the expense of the budget of the Ottoman Empire.
          For some reason, this offended Nicholas I, who issued an ultimatum to the Sultan to recognize the primacy of the Orthodox in the Holy Places. But since Turkey was financially dependent on France, which supported Catholics, Turkey was in no hurry to fulfill the conditions of the ultimatum. Then Nicholas I gave the order to occupy Moldova and Wallachia.
          The Sultan demanded that our troops be withdrawn from the Turkish provinces of Moldavia and Wallachia.
          In short, the war began essentially from scratch.
          What, again, Turkey "incited"?
          11) Russian-Turkish war 1877-1878.
          At this point, in a purely brotherly way, we decided to help the "brothers".
          What has Turkey to do with incitement?
          12) Russian-Turkish War as an integral part of the First World War.
          In 1914, after the outbreak of the First World War, we had to refrain from war with Turkey with all our might. Moreover, at the very beginning of the First World War, Turkey was not at all going to participate in it. The Sultan was against war, the Heir to the throne was also against war. The Grand Vizier is also against war. The finance minister is against war. Of the Young Turks triumvirate, only Enver Pasha stood firmly on the side of Germany for immediate entry into the war. Yes, the Germans were pulling Turkey into the war with all their might. But it is not a fact that the Germans alone, without the help of the Armenians, would have been able to drag Turkey into the First World War. However, even at the end of the 19th century and including the entire period of peace with Turkey, Armenian "vigilantes" or as they are also called "fedai" (in modern language - international terrorists) moved from the territory of Russia to the territory of Turkey and committed "acts of retaliation" there against the Turkish officials, officers and soldiers, policemen, mullahs and just Turks and Kurds. And what is most disgusting is that these fedai were intensively spreading rumors that they were doing all this almost on the orders of the Russian authorities. It is clear that information about the bloody raids of retaliation and information about rumors reached Istanbul and all of Turkey. Our Russian newspapers also reached Turkey, most of which periodically printed, inspired, including by the Russian Armenians (although there were enough idiots without them), jingoistic patriotic articles on the topic "Let's return the cross to St. Sophia." And within three months, public opinion in Turkey has undergone a dramatic change. The influence of the so-called "party of peace" has come to naught. It was taking into account this changed public opinion at the end of October 1914, Evner-Pasha, who, like a sin, was the Minister of War, at his own peril and risk, authorized the exit of the Turkish fleet, including the former Goeben and Breslau, with German crews to shell our shores. As a result, a state of war was declared between Russia and Turkey. Russia was put in conditions of war on two fronts and lost the ability to receive help from the allies in the Black Sea ports. It was necessary to urgently start building a railway from Murmansk (Romanov-na Murman), which was commissioned only in December 1916.
          On the Caucasian front, it is clear that we won. However, these victories of ours did not have the slightest effect on the course of the First World War as a whole. We were retreating on the German front. After the war, Field Marshal Ludendorff let slip that: "If we had not been able to involve Turkey in the war on our side, Germany would not have held out until 1916."
          But the Germans, with the active help of the Armenians, managed to drag Turkey into the war. World War I dragged on. Our armies suffered millions losses. The people and the army began to tire of the war. A pre-revolutionary situation was created. How it all ended - everyone knows.
          I do not want to say that if there were no Armenian aid to the Germans, Turkey would certainly remain a neutral country. But even if Turkey entered the war a year later, or even half a year later, this would be a huge plus for us. And most likely, if Turkey had not entered the war in 1914, then she really would not have entered it at all. For already in 1915 it became clear that the blitzkrieg had failed and that in a protracted war, the Germans would not win.
          1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
            Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 10 October 2020 17: 42
            0
            Very informative, concise and informative. Thank you so much.
  17. Seal Offline Seal
    Seal (Sergey Petrovich) 7 October 2020 15: 56
    +1
    Quote: Lyubov Vasilievna
    Rebuilt for my money

    It's actually our money. Given to this oligarch through his stores, with which he then simply forced the entire Krasnodar Territory, for a long time not letting other networks into the region.
    And he began by collecting privatization checks. He created a fund, cheated the residents of Thessaloniki and Lazarevsky, and then a matter of technology.
  18. Netyn Offline Netyn
    Netyn (Netyn) 10 October 2020 01: 33
    0
    It's not hard to imagine

    In one phrase about the whole article
    The whole article is only the author's wet fantasies caused by the autumn exacerbation and the missed dose of haloperidol or by a severe head injury