The West disrupts the serial production of the Russian airliner MS-21


Another serious blow has been dealt to the domestic aircraft industry. Foreign manufacturers refused to supply to Russia electronic and other necessary components for the creation of civil aircraft. The launch dates for the MC-21 airliner are again shifted to the right. What to do, and who is to blame, let's try to figure it out.


Just a week ago, we told about the problems facing a promising medium-range aircraft that can make some kind of real competition between Boeing and Airbus. The dependence on the supply of imported components was indicated as the main one. The liner, at the customer's choice, can be equipped with either the domestic PD-14 aircraft engine (which is also not yet mass-produced), or the American PW1400G from Pratt & Whitney. The availability of an alternative sludge plant should reduce dependence on foreign suppliers.

The American authorities have already managed to create problems for the Russian project by banning their own and Japanese companies from supplying composite materials for the MS-21, which are necessary for the production of its "black wings". Because of this, the timing of the launch of the aircraft in the series shifted to the right for the period of forced import substitution. However, in an article a week ago, we pointed out that the domestic medium-haul liner is still heavily dependent on foreign suppliers. The production of the MC-21 requires imported electronic systems and a number of mechanical components. As reported, the United Aircraft Corporation has bought a significant stock of these components for the future worth tens of billions of rubles. As it turned out, the precaution was not superfluous. Vasily Shpak, a representative of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, complained the day before:

Our foreign partners, who supply ready-made systems for our aircraft, someone publicly, someone secretly, informed our aircraft manufacturers that they would not continue their relationship with our aircraft manufacturers either under existing contracts or under new contracts.

The official made the conclusion that in this way Western corporations are trying to stop the revival of the Russian aircraft industry. The restrictions will affect both the MS-21 and the Superjet, as well as a number of other projects. As they say, they sailed, or flew in, whatever you like. Now Russia will have to revive the production of electronic components from scratch. Moreover, this will have to be done in the face of problems with the supply of machine tools, other equipment, as well as a shortage of professional personnel caused by the "optimization" of the aircraft industry. This is undoubtedly necessary, but it will cost the country a pretty penny and further push the MS-21 launch date into series.

At the same time, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the situation would not be so deplorable if the "sovereign's servants" corresponded to their position and timely fulfilled the tasks assigned to them. By the way, the course towards import substitution in the aircraft industry was set back in 2014, immediately after the cooling of relations with the West began. You didn't need to be a genius to understand how "effective international cooperation" would end up. So it ended, as it should have ended. But over the past six years, the production of electronic and other critical components has not been established.

It should be noted that what happened can be considered a bold point in policy liberal "reformers" who are still in power in Russia. In 1992, one of the main ideologists of the transition to private ownership of the means of production and the "invisible hand of the market" Yegor Gaidar, according to the memoirs of the Minister of Machine-Tool and Tool Industry N.A. Panichev, regarding his idea of ​​preserving the machine-tool industry, he stated literally the following:

Who needs your shitty machines ?! If you need it, we will buy everything abroad.

Well, "we bought it". Mr. Gaidar has been gone for a long time, but his work, judging by the results, lives on. It will be useful to know that even now the share of foreign components of the electronic base in our space industry is 20%, and in the defense industry - all 40%. It is not difficult to guess where the next sanctions blow will be struck, while our "sovereigns" are doing something incomprehensible.
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  1. Eduard Aplombov Offline Eduard Aplombov
    Eduard Aplombov (Eduard Aplombov) 1 October 2020 12: 53
    +2
    precisely said, there is no greater trouble than internal trouble
  2. Dima Dima_2 Offline Dima Dima_2
    Dima Dima_2 (Dima Dima) 1 October 2020 12: 57
    +1
    What Russia sells the most is oil and oil products, what it buys the most is machinery and equipment) You don't have to be a child prodigy to understand what needs to be substituted)
  3. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 1 October 2020 13: 17
    +1
    Is it so difficult to create a new engine? One Aviation Institute with a plant will cost much cheaper than Abramovich's yacht, or what other "yacht" billionaire who received national property for a penny!
    1. AICO Offline AICO
      AICO (Vyacheslav) 1 October 2020 13: 55
      +2
      It will be easy to do - when all the "yachtsmen" are shot, precisely by the verdict of the court and together with the family members !!!
    2. orange Offline orange
      orange (ororpore) 1 October 2020 14: 07
      +3
      You cannot enter industrialization on the old foundation. It is necessary to replace defective managers with specialized specialists. As it was always and everywhere!
      1. Bitter Offline Bitter
        Bitter (Gleb) 1 October 2020 23: 22
        -1
        You cannot enter industrialization on the old foundation. We need to change ...

        On what so old, old everything was sold, pocketed, drank or thrown away in the process of decommunization and pocketing. All there is is the purest products of the unparalleled Yeltsin economy. All these new, straight from scratch, effective managers at the helm did not last long. They need a little more time, money and everything will be. And the "market" continues to settle, mostly budget loot in the pockets.
        1. Daniil_0.3 Offline Daniil_0.3
          Daniil_0.3 (Daniil Aleshkin) 2 October 2020 15: 42
          0
          What is the capacity of the Russian market for machine tools for the production of aircraft engines?
          1. igor.igorev Offline igor.igorev
            igor.igorev (Igor) 2 October 2020 21: 33
            0
            I think that it is quite sufficient to supply the Russian market. And in any case, they won't let us into the western one.
      2. igor.igorev Offline igor.igorev
        igor.igorev (Igor) 2 October 2020 21: 32
        -3
        Not a single Soviet engine matched the world level. All our aircraft, with the exception of the Il-96, are prohibited from flying to Europe and the United States. Not because of politics or sanctions, no, but because of the noise of the engines. Therefore, the Soviet profile specialists were no better than the current managers. They did a lot of things, only it was rubbish no one needed.
        1. olpin51 Offline olpin51
          olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 5 October 2020 23: 54
          +1
          Quote: igor.igorev
          Not a single Soviet engine matched the world level.

          So far, the Americans have recognized our nk32 as the best in the world. They don't have that. There are similar ones, but with worse characteristics. So, you don't have to bang.
          1. igor.igorev Offline igor.igorev
            igor.igorev (Igor) 9 October 2020 11: 27
            0
            Can you read? None of our engines other than PS-90 can be used on airplanes flying to Europe and the USA. And I did not write anything about the power of the engines. The NK-32 is a good engine, but definitely not the best.
            1. olpin51 Offline olpin51
              olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 12 October 2020 20: 10
              +1
              30 years ago !!!? was created NK-93, which is even ashamed to put PD-14 next to it. The Americans did not have anything like this at all then. Compared to PD-14, NK-93 is much quieter (no noise typical of turbojet installations), more environmentally friendly, cheaper and more economical. But they hacked to death for political reasons. Sold, in short, to Westerners
              1. igor.igorev Offline igor.igorev
                igor.igorev (Igor) 15 October 2020 20: 46
                -1
                Yes, there is no NK-93. Read less tabloid press.
                1. olpin51 Offline olpin51
                  olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 16 October 2020 08: 57
                  0
                  Here are the ones on. Where did he go then. As far as we know, some work is underway to modify the NK-93 for new technologies. Not quite official, but coming. Although some of course know more about Kuznetsov's engines.
                  1. igor.igorev Offline igor.igorev
                    igor.igorev (Igor) 20 October 2020 09: 48
                    0
                    Tell me when and why the NK-93 was built, I really want to know.
                    1. olpin51 Offline olpin51
                      olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 20 October 2020 17: 32
                      0
                      You have an Internet and a lot of time.
                      1. igor.igorev Offline igor.igorev
                        igor.igorev (Igor) 23 October 2020 21: 17
                        0
                        Only stupid people search the internet for the information they need.
                      2. olpin51 Offline olpin51
                        olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 29 October 2020 17: 05
                        0
                        Got it. Then I will advise on the market. Not stupid people go there too ..
                  2. olpin51 Offline olpin51
                    olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 20 October 2020 17: 34
                    0
                    The main thing is to correctly formulate the request.
      3. olpin51 Offline olpin51
        olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 5 October 2020 23: 59
        +1
        There was infa how the Americans fired their aircraft designers (300 pieces) and took ours. What is it like? If you wish, there is everything in the internet
  4. 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 1 October 2020 14: 13
    +4
    Is it so difficult to create a new engine? One Aviation Institute with a plant will cost much cheaper than Abramovich's yacht, or what other "yacht" billionaire who received national property for a penny!

    Is it all about the money? Why don't the Chinese suffer with engines? Not enough money either?
    1. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
      Bulanov (Vladimir) 1 October 2020 14: 17
      +4
      For 123: - Do you think that the Russian engineers, who were the first to send a man into space, do not have enough brains to make a new engine? And once there were enough brains for Tu and IL. Or are there no more talents in Russia?
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 1 October 2020 14: 20
        0
        Do you think that the Russian engineers who were the first to send man into space will not have enough brains to make a new engine? And once there were enough brains for Tu and IL. Or are there no more talents in Russia?

        Why not enough? PD-14 made and others will do yes But it's not about the money. Such technologies cannot be bought. The Chinese are a good example.
        1. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
          Bulanov (Vladimir) 1 October 2020 14: 23
          0
          Do technologies come from the sky? They are being developed on the ground. Why can't Russian engineers, in your opinion, develop them? Or is it only the Germans with the Anglo-Saxons and the French are capable of this?
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) 1 October 2020 14: 40
            +2
            Do technologies come from the sky? They are being developed on the ground. Why can't Russian engineers, in your opinion, develop them? Or is it only the Germans with the Anglo-Saxons and the French are capable of this?

            Where did you get this opinion of mine? belay Where did I say that Russian engineers cannot do this?
            A scientific school is needed for the production of engines; fortunately, it has not been completely destroyed in our country. Technologies from the sky do not really come, they are being developed. This requires a lot of work. Money alone will not solve the problem. The financial capabilities of the same Chinese are more serious, but the engine is still being bought, including from us. And by the way, the Germans in this case "cannot", they do not have their own engine of this class. Their "school" was closed in 1945, since then they have not been able to catch up. So, there are not many capable of producing such engines, the Anglo-Saxons, the French and we, by and large, and everyone, if others do something, it is already a joint production. Almost all manufacturers are members of the UN Security Council, apparently this is not accidental, the results of the Second World War. .. only the winners could save the production.
            I mean, Abramovich and yachts are one thing, but engines are still a little different.
            I am not a supporter of the Abramovichs and yachts, but this is a slightly different topic. Anglo-Saxons and French have no less yachts, but they have engines. hi
            1. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
              Bulanov (Vladimir) 1 October 2020 14: 48
              +1
              The Anglo-Saxons have a good printing press, and thanks to it they buy up technologies at the root, and developers, from those who do not mind making money, or those who are not allowed to develop in their countries. And Abramovich's yachts are just there! When money in the country went to education and to the development of industry, then there were enough of its own engines. And as effective managers began to order huge yachts and to maintain foreign sports clubs, problems immediately arose in aircraft construction and other industries!
              1. 123 Offline 123
                123 (123) 1 October 2020 16: 35
                +1
                The Anglo-Saxons have a good printing press, and thanks to it they buy up technologies at the root, and developers, from those who do not mind making money, or those who are not allowed to develop in their countries

                All right yes , it just doesn't work for aircraft engines. There is no one to buy from. These things can only be done by yourself. At the beginning of the "jet era", the USSR bought engines for fighters from the same British.

                And Abramovich's yachts are just there! When money in the country went to education and the development of industry, then there were enough of its own engines.

                This is only partly true. The USSR was not the world leader in civil aircraft construction in full. The same engines often lagged behind Western ones in terms of efficiency, reliability, and noise.
                Yes, in the 90s, both education and industry were ruined, aviation was pressed like this:

                The collapse of the USSR and the emergence of the CIS became for the United States the very opportunity to strangle the post-Soviet aviation industry, which Washington took advantage of. The FAA categorically refused to work on the certification of the Il-96M / T based on the State Aviation Inspectorate standards, therefore, Airworthiness Standards and certification procedures for aviation equipment were developed harmonized with the US FAR. The Il-96T was eventually certified, but at a high price.
                The procedures for the implementation of this agreement signed by the IAC with the FAA are clearly discriminatory in relation to Russia, allowing the United States to export to us any aircraft, including "old" and with a lot of flying time, and to us in the United States - only new transport aircraft with American engines and avionics. Even before the signing of this intergovernmental agreement, the IAC certified a large number of outdated types of Boeing aircraft, which led to a disaster for the domestic civil aviation industry.
                Keeping up with these quality standards is almost impossible. In general, the situation turns out to be even tougher than that observed in the field of motor transport with its Euro standards: producing thousands of aircraft a year, Boeing and Airbus are constantly raising the bar for quality, cutting off any less modern competitors from their skies. And practically everything needs to be certified, even aviation seats.
                Moreover, thanks to its leadership in the aviation industry, the EU can quite afford to impose bans on the reception of, for example, noisy aircraft, as was done in 2002 with the Tu-134/154 family.

                And all aircraft manufacturers live in this aviation reality.
                The world sky is dominated by Boeing and Airbus aircraft, which are fighting among themselves for leadership in the wide-body aircraft segment. On the sidelines are the Brazilian Embraer (conditionally Brazilian, since a part of its shares is owned by the French Dassault) and the Canadian-British Bombardier - they compete with the giants of the first echelon in the segment of regional and narrow-body vehicles.
                Boeing and Airbus enjoy strong backing from their respective governments, and attempts by anyone to challenge their primacy are turning into measures like US duties against the Bombardier C-series. In fact, this is nothing more than protectionism, and very aggressive at that.
                The US and EU are aviation legislators, leaders in aircraft components, which gives them the right to certify aviation equipment in other countries of the world and force them to play by American and European technical rules that are extremely difficult to comply with.
                It is extremely difficult to evade certification in EASA and FAA - this means actually closing 70% of the world sky for an uncertified aircraft.

                And as effective managers began to order huge yachts and to maintain foreign sports clubs, problems immediately arose in aircraft construction and other industries!

                Aha yes Here are just yachts and sports clubs, the latter did not decrease, and the aircraft industry began to revive. So it’s impossible to explain everything by “effective managers” alone. Is this a simplified view of the reasons?
              2. Dear sofa expert. 2 October 2020 23: 17
                +1
                123 is absolutely right. Here, read this article. She explains a lot.

                http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/
                mediabank / about_us / 1185 /
      2. lahudra Offline lahudra
        lahudra (Nikolay Kondrashkin) 1 October 2020 20: 49
        -4
        All Russian engineers left for Israel or grew old, and the corresponding characters agree to work for a penny.
        1. vadim dok Offline vadim dok
          vadim dok (Marusev) 2 October 2020 15: 55
          0
          They left and are leaving not only to Israel ......!
        2. Dear sofa expert. 2 October 2020 23: 20
          +1
          All Russian engineers left for Israel

          Jew is an engineer ... this is an anecdote
        3. isofat Online isofat
          isofat (isofat) 2 October 2020 23: 48
          0
          Quote: lahudra
          All Russian engineers left for Israel

          This means that Russian engineers are no worse than Jewish engineers, since they are so well received in Israel. I think the Jews are afraid that the Russians will get bored and they will come back. VIVAT comrades! Gentlemen too, vivat! smile
      3. igor.igorev Offline igor.igorev
        igor.igorev (Igor) 2 October 2020 21: 36
        0
        There are brains, it takes 10 years for these brains to create and organize the production of an engine. We have made and are doing engines for military aircraft, but civilian ones need completely different parameters.
    2. Bitter Offline Bitter
      Bitter (Gleb) 1 October 2020 23: 25
      -1
      Why don't the Chinese suffer with engines?

      Do you put the Chinese and Russian schools on the same level? Yes Yes. Apparently it's time.
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 1 October 2020 23: 34
        +3
        Do you put the Chinese and Russian schools on the same level? Yes Yes. Apparently it's time.

        Not really. That is why they buy our engines and not us from them. And what about the time .... to rest on our laurels and assume that this will always be unreasonable. Otherwise, such hobbies will turn into a compulsory school curriculum. laughing

        1. Bitter Offline Bitter
          Bitter (Gleb) 1 October 2020 23: 54
          0
          ... these hobbies will turn into a compulsory school curriculum.

          Well, at this age, you can easily learn languages ​​if the teachers are intelligent. Chinese is also needed. good

          .... rest on our laurels and count ...

          The laurels are already a little sleepy. Military engines have completely different requirements for resource reserves, savings, and so on. Why was it necessary to develop this segment, if you can buy all this from Boeings with Bombardiers, and best of all with a flying kit, in the form of an airplane. Here are the results of this "confusion" or sabotage under the cover of the supposedly invisible hand of the market and crawl out of all the cracks.
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) 2 October 2020 00: 02
            +2
            Well, at this age, you can easily learn languages ​​if the teachers are intelligent. Chinese is also needed

            These kids are smart yes dad himself spits no worse than the Chinese.

            The laurels are already a little sleepy. Military engines have completely different requirements for resource reserves, savings, and so on. Why was it necessary to develop this segment, if you can buy all this from Boeings with Bombardiers, and best of all with a flying kit, in the form of an airplane. Here are the results of this "confusion" or sabotage under the cover of the supposedly invisible hand of the market and crawl out of all the cracks.

            Right now, on the "laurels" prevention is underway, tinted, renewed ...
            Most likely this is not confusion or ideological sabotage, just corrupt creatures .... "Partners" were removing a competitor and freeing up the market for themselves, and these were rowing green pieces of paper and pretending that they did not understand this.
  5. Daniil_0.3 Offline Daniil_0.3
    Daniil_0.3 (Daniil Aleshkin) 2 October 2020 15: 37
    0
    and how much will the plant cost to assemble the machines that assemble the motors for the engines?
  6. igor.igorev Offline igor.igorev
    igor.igorev (Igor) 2 October 2020 21: 28
    0
    To create an engine from scratch, you need at least 10 years and then refine it for a few more years already during operation. This is the most difficult piece on an airplane.
  • Kuramori Reika Offline Kuramori Reika
    Kuramori Reika (Kuramori Reika) 1 October 2020 13: 53
    +3
    Liberalism of the brain should already be recognized as a mental illness, especially mercilessly punishing the Russian elitka and piling up.
  • Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 1 October 2020 13: 57
    -3
    How long to!
    For about 3 years it is about to start and change, and the West is tearing everything down and tearing it down ...
    The words are different, the essence is the same.

    Maybe -

    Maybe something to fix in the conservatory?
    1. lahudra Offline lahudra
      lahudra (Nikolay Kondrashkin) 1 October 2020 20: 50
      -2
      No ! The Russian people like to fight the west and get up from their knees.
      1. Dear sofa expert. 2 October 2020 23: 26
        +1
        The Russian people like to fight the west and get up from their knees.

        And the Ukrainian people like to like the West on their knees.
  • steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 1 October 2020 14: 00
    -8
    Here is the result of 20 years of Putin's rule !!

    ..... Whatever happens,
    drowned, exploded,
    apparently it happened so
    so it was obvious.
    Everyone in Russia firmly knows
    the most important argument,
    not responsible for anything
    in the state the president ...


    (the Internet)
    1. colyanpirogov Offline colyanpirogov
      colyanpirogov (Nikolai Pirogov) 2 October 2020 12: 38
      0
      Sharik - well, what does the president have to do with it again ... Well, sometimes you are amazing! As children! fool If anything, the president is to blame right away ... Is it really incomprehensible that they will ALWAYS put a spoke in our wheels, while they will try to revive, build, invent something and thereby undermine the established foundations on the international market !? Well, if you don’t want sanctions, choose a president, and I’ll get dirty, only then there will be no work done!
  • King3214 Offline King3214
    King3214 (Sergius) 1 October 2020 14: 01
    +2
    The sooner Russia gets rid of foreign lobbyists (including lobbyists from the near abroad, the so-called "brothers"), the more independent our country becomes.
  • 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 1 October 2020 14: 12
    +2
    It will be useful to know that even now the share of foreign components of the electronic base in our space industry is 20%, and in the defense industry - all 40%. It is not difficult to guess where the next sanctions blow will be struck, while our "sovereigns" are doing something incomprehensible.

    ABOUT!!! Again everything was lost. laughing It's time for the captain to hand over a new certificate yes And why do you think ...

    The United Aircraft Corporation bought a significant stock of these components for the future worth tens of billions of rubles.

    So it was not only the UAC that did it, but the warehouses didn’t score billions of dollars during the “transition period”. Maybe the "sovereigns" understood this without your prompting? It is rather difficult to say that nothing is being done in this direction.

    Today practically no country in the world provides itself with a fully modern electronic component base of "space" quality. We, Russian space, are part of this global cooperation. Therefore, in the last 15-20 years, in order to achieve the highest characteristics of spacecraft, we have used the electronic component base available on the world market to the maximum extent. The use of imported component base in commercial satellites reached 75%, in dual-use spacecraft such as GLONASS - up to 50%. From imported electronic component base 80-85% were made in the USAwhich became inaccessible to us after 2014.

    https://www.roscosmos.ru/28651/

    The dependence on imports still remains, but it has practically been eliminated from the United States, but as for Asia ... it is not so easy to do, there is a "world electronics factory".

    More than 60% of the electronic component base in the military-industrial complex consists of domestic products. Shpak also recalled a 2018 study that showed how the volume of imported electronic component base in the production of weapons, military and special equipment in the United States. "80% - Is China and Taiwan... This is typical not only for us, ”the official said, stressing that this is the worldwide practice.

    https://www.cnews.ru/news/top/2020-09-30_postavshchiki_komplektuyushchih
  • kriten Offline kriten
    kriten (Vladimir) 1 October 2020 15: 19
    +1
    What does the West have to do with it? This is a result that was laid by our own idiots or pests from both the developers and manufacturers and the government. Who in their right mind would lay down buying aircraft parts from the enemy when there is a war?
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) 1 October 2020 16: 44
      +1
      What does the West have to do with it? This is a result that was laid by our own idiots or pests from both the developers and manufacturers and the government. Who in their right mind would lay down buying aircraft parts from the enemy when there is a war?

      You know ... the USSR bought bread from the enemy ... repeat What can you say about the Soviet government? Or is it different? winked
  • Ky Ky Offline Ky Ky
    Ky Ky 1 October 2020 18: 02
    0
    Well, they said for a long time - that in fact no one has yet forgiven the Russian Federation introduced sanctions. But if they want, everything will stop. From the internet to gasoline. It's funny - but we have very little of our chemistry. So what do you think helicopters and airplanes of new modifications do not do or do only a few ?? And there are no units and spare parts - they were purchased from abroad.
  • To begin with, prohibit the purchase of Boeings and Airbuses as well as their flights over Russia
    1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 October 2020 08: 20
      -5
      That's right, let the whole civil aviation become a joke. 90% of Russian civil aviation is Boeings and Airbuses. But a robot, after all, she is a brainless machine, not a thinking one.
      1. Dear sofa expert. 2 October 2020 23: 31
        +2
        90% of Russian civil aviation is used by Boeings and Airbuses.

        You might think that Jews fly exclusively on Israeli planes)
        1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
          Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 October 2020 23: 52
          -4
          So we do not pretend to do this, we do what we are good at - for example, drones.
          1. Dear sofa expert. 3 October 2020 00: 01
            +2
            So we do not pretend to do this, we do what we are good at - for example, drones.

            Well, that's fine.
            And Russia, in turn, is one of the leaders in the defense industry, the nuclear industry and energy in general, agriculture, metallurgy, aircraft and helicopter manufacturing, rocketry and the space industry, engine building, IT sector, and so on.
            Poorly repeat "small country"?
            1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
              Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 3 October 2020 06: 16
              -4
              A small country has its own achievements, and not small ones - being a “small country”, without resources, without water, it turned from a desert into a blooming garden. One of the world leaders in pharmacology, medicine, one of the countries with the longest life expectancy (Russia on 126th place), and in the same defense industry, one of the leaders is one of the dozens of world arms exporters. Is it weak to repeat such successes for a “great country” in Israeli conditions? And as for the IT sector, engine building - your success here is rather doubtful. your success in the field of engine building? RD-180?
              1. Dear sofa expert. 3 October 2020 11: 10
                +3
                What can we say about your successes in the field of engine building? RD-180?

                What engines do you think Russian military aircraft fly?
                In Israeli?))

                and in the same defense industry one of the leaders - out of dozens of world arms exporters.

                Does it bother you that Israel, for example, receives about 60% of the total volume of all US military aid programs to foreign states? Up to 22% of Israel's military budget comes from the United States. Israel is the second largest recipient of US international aid (after Afghanistan), and since 1948 the US has spent $ 115 billion on Israel.
                1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
                  Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 3 October 2020 11: 58
                  -4
                  In fact, you wrote here that Russia is one of the world leaders in engine building. So I would like to know who buys Russian engines. Well, about aid - Israel receives it only for military needs, and in total it is about 3-4 % of the budget. Everything else by ourselves. So no, it does not bother. Just in case, let me remind you - until the early 70s, the United States helped Israel a little less than nothing, and nothing - survived and survived quite well, while managed without any help to defeat the united Arab armies, caringly supported by the great-mighty. Yes, and the help that is given, you need to be able to dispose of. Not everyone succeeds. Besides, the help is not entirely free of charge - a lot of Israeli patents are taken over by the United States. And again Israel has always been in the top ten arms exporters. We do what we do well, and we do not need to slide into isolation and autonomy.
                  1. Dear sofa expert. 3 October 2020 12: 05
                    +2
                    So I would like to know who buys Russian engines.

                    Everyone who uses Russian (and Soviet) equipment. Further yourself.)

                    Israel receives it only for military needs, and in the total volume it makes up about 3-4% of the budget. Everything else is on our own. So no, it does not bother. Just in case, let me remind you that until the beginning of the 70s the United States helped Israel a little less than nothing, and nothing - survived and survived quite well.

                    Come on) Here is some good material on American aid to the State of Israel since its inception:

                    http://ehd.mgimo.ru/IORManagerMgimo/file?id=C7A4EE6A-795F-A31F-2774-E4552227F690
                2. isofat Online isofat
                  isofat (isofat) 3 October 2020 12: 46
                  +2
                  Quote: Dear sofa expert.
                  Since 1948, the United States has spent $ 115 billion on Israel.

                  With a population of only 10 million, $ 115 billion is a huge amount.

                  You can not get out of the resorts for such money, increasing your life expectancy. smile
                  1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
                    Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 3 October 2020 13: 11
                    -3
                    ALL American money is spent exclusively on weapons, and American money, so it is generally beneficial to America, plus, as was said, Israeli patents are very much in demand in the United States. Well, as it was also said, everything else is on its own. Well, about the Soviet-Russian technology (engines) - who exploits and exploited them except for the "countries of people's democracy", former vassals of the USSR and third world countries that "chose the socialist path of development"? Who had money and who was not a Soviet vassal bought Western-made equipment.
                    1. isofat Online isofat
                      isofat (isofat) 3 October 2020 13: 34
                      +2
                      Natan Bruk! Here I am about the same! Since you don't need to spend your money on the war, you can improve the country's demography and life expectancy on them! wink
                      PS I wish you success!
                      1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 3 October 2020 14: 17
                        -3
                        Mutually, the same wishes
                      2. isofat Online isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 3 October 2020 14: 46
                        +2
                        I will believe you if you refuse to take gratuitous help (salary) to the war from the United States.
                  2. Dear sofa expert. 3 October 2020 16: 20
                    +2
                    Third World countries that “chose the socialist path of development?” Who had money and who was not a Soviet vassal bought Western-made equipment.

                    Are you talking about China like that?)
            2. Dear sofa expert. 3 October 2020 11: 31
              +3
              one of the countries with the longest life expectancy (Russia in 126th place),

              Well, of course, you do not have several climatic zones where annual temperature fluctuations sometimes reach 90 ° C. Or your knowledge of medicine does not allow you to understand the effect of this on the human body?
              In the southern regions of Russia, statistics on life expectancy are not inferior to yours.

              And if you are talking about better medical care ... Well then. If the life expectancy of the Israelites depends on this, then there is nothing to envy.
              Personally, I would rather die, being still active and strong enough to get to the toilet, and breathe without the help of an artificial respirator, and preferably in my right mind, than to lie the last 5-6 years of my life as a vegetable.
              1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
                Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 3 October 2020 11: 45
                -3
                Thank you, made fun :))) Only there are countries where there are also several climatic zones, but at the same time they are at the top of the WHO ranking in terms of life expectancy, and Russia is in 109th place (at least in the ranking for the last year) .. Well, and besides, mine knowledge of medicine allows me to understand that life in the Israeli desert climate also does not have a very good effect on the body of many people. The last paragraph is generally fire :))) That's right, die young, why do you need this high-quality medical care, you need to be closer to nature. Gogol's "inspector". Only pensioners in Israel live a very rich life and, say, at 70 years old a person is considered young enough, leads an active life, travels the world and definitely does not feel like a wreck. allows you to maintain health and be active and active even at a fairly old age.
                1. Dear sofa expert. 3 October 2020 11: 56
                  +2
                  and Russia is in 109th place (at least in the ranking for the last year)

                  Thank you for noticing the increase in life expectancy in Russia) (from 129th to 109th place). By the way, life expectancy in Israel, on the contrary, has decreased slightly.

                  and, say, at 70 a person is considered young enough

                  We're not talking about this age, are we?
                  As a physician, you often see “those over 90” in front of you. Because they almost never get out of medical facilities.)
                  Well, frankly, would you personally like to cross this line?)
                  Me not. There is no need to talk about the quality of life. Do you dream of being such a talking mummy? Well, that's your business.
                  1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
                    Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 3 October 2020 13: 21
                    -3
                    Well, the 109th place is also not very impressive. And Israel, as it was at 9th, has been holding there for the last several years. Quite stable and not bad at all, given the difficult climate, frequent military conflicts and the pace of life. Well, you should not take it to extremes. - the average life expectancy here is about 84 years and a very significant part of them live up to this age in quite decent condition, enjoying the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and other pleasures of the "golden age". But if you think it is better to die young enough - your business.
                    1. Dear sofa expert. 3 October 2020 16: 28
                      +2
                      Well, 109th place is also not very impressive.

                      Yes, but the place would be much better if there was not a large gap in the life expectancy of Russian men and women. Men unfortunately "pull" statistics down.
                      But I am sure that this statistic will affect you personally equally. You are also from the former USSR. So you won't live long. So you love a drink, judging by your own words.)
            3. magma Offline magma
              magma (Tatyana) 4 October 2020 10: 30
              0
              And as for the IT sector, engine building - your success here is rather doubtful.

              - that is why you sit on Russian sites all day. Write some nonsense ...
  • boriz Offline boriz
    boriz (boriz) 1 October 2020 20: 18
    +4
    To begin with - to close the export of titanium parts for aircraft - classmates of the MS-21. Promise to close the rest, if they don't change their minds.
    Well, and restore the defeated. It's almost unrealistic.
    I worked until 1995. the head of the shop that produced chips for microcircuits. Small splashes remain from the plant. At the place of management of the workshop, technologists, mechanic group, there is a workshop for the manufacture of prostheses. There are metal-cutting machines in the production building. Of course, the equipment that provided the required parameters of the air in the working rooms (dustiness, humidity, temperature) has long been gone. The workshops where the microcircuits were assembled into buildings were leased. One for a shopping center, the other for some kind of garbage.
    Hardware can be bought and installed (although this is also a problem). Where to get footage? The equipment adjuster has been trained for years. Our mechanic, when I came to the shop, explained to me that they take a smart little boy to work after college and watch him work. After 2 years, it becomes clear whether he will turn out to be an adjuster or not. It's no better with technologists. The same is true for the operators of precision photolithography.
    One of my relatives graduated from the Moscow Higher Technical School with a degree in turbine engineering and got a job at Salyut in Moscow. They couldn't get enough of him. I worked for a year: I planted my vision, I have no money. The family needs to be fed. He left to work for a western company that sells its equipment here. Engaged in installation, maintenance and repair. Periodically goes to the head office for study, etc. Works as the head of the service. Feels very good. He has been working there for 15 years already. I have no idea what to offer him so that he would leave his place of residence and return to jet engines. Moreover, as an engine developer, he did not develop for 15 years.
    And where do we get what? How to create cadres based on the Unified State Exam of the new generation? Earlier, with a normal education, they worked for decades. Although the coffin began already then, in the 70s. When a worker earned several times more than a developer and a middle manager.
    Even if the money is given.
    1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 October 2020 08: 51
      -1
      Just in case, not only Russia produces titanium. China produces the most. Canada still has other countries. They will not be left without titanium. But you can, of course, shoot yourself in the foot.
    2. Eduard Aplombov Offline Eduard Aplombov
      Eduard Aplombov (Eduard Aplombov) 2 October 2020 11: 43
      +1
      I do not agree with you and, alas, I agree with a Jew, it is possible and necessary to sell titanium and titanium products if they are for civilian consumers, but the fact is that we in Russia do not have such a large assortment for export, but to minimize purchases in the West and from countries that have applied sanctions we need to punish already Russian enterprises in violation of Russian sanctions
  • Kuramori Reika Offline Kuramori Reika
    Kuramori Reika (Kuramori Reika) 1 October 2020 21: 22
    +1
    It seems to me that industries are not created not because of the great reluctance of officials, but because of preliminary gigantic fundamental tasks. There is also the question of where to get the right specialists? Let's face it, most of the young people in Russia are outright bio-waste. This bio-waste has grown on House 2, Malakhov and modern crap of Russian culture.

    And even if you create industries with an eye on the future generation, children will still grow up flawed, since in our country there are 75 - 87% of divorces, where the initiators of divorce are imbecile mothers running to file for divorce on any sneeze. After all, the state guaranteed them an easier and more free life outside of marriage, the main thing is that they give birth like a machine and ... from school. With this form of "family" smart specialists do not appear en masse, in such a family there are only degradants who can eat shit. And a whole generation of such scum, incapable of complex intellectual work, has already grown up. They are just now running to all sorts of protests.

    Therefore, the problem is not in liberal officials, who most likely have long been no longer liberals, but in the absence of people capable of creating and maintaining this mechanism at the level of a person at the bench.
    1. boriz Offline boriz
      boriz (boriz) 1 October 2020 23: 51
      +1
      ... the problem is not with liberal officials

      Who destroyed the education and training system?
  • Vladimir Androsov_2 (Vladimir Androsov) 2 October 2020 00: 23
    +3
    Another magic kick. As practice shows, kicks are good for us. Thanks to the policy of the West, we got agricultural production. And about the Russian aircraft industry, pilot, hero of Russia Magomed Tolboyev said 20 years ago that if we do not make our own civil aircraft and cars, then after the deterioration of relations with the West, we will have to switch to horse-drawn transport.
    1. Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 2 October 2020 08: 48
      0
      Something has not been heard of him lately.
      Did you say too much?
    2. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 October 2020 19: 55
      -3
      It would be better if Tolboyev did not go into those areas in which he understands little. I read the blogs of civilian pilots, and most are very skeptical and even derisive about his writings. A man is a professional in military aviation, but not in civilian, there are different criteria and other priorities. And yes, most professional civilian pilots are very skeptical about the products of the domestic aviation industry and its "novelties" and prefer to fly Boeing, Airbus and Embrayer.
      1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 October 2020 19: 59
        -2
        Read, for example, the blog of Denis Okan, he is an instructor pilot, flies Boeings, flew different types of aircraft.
  • Obama Barack Offline Obama Barack
    Obama Barack (Obama Barack) 2 October 2020 12: 28
    0
    What kind of contracts are you signing, if you can be thrown so easily?
  • steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 2 October 2020 12: 48
    0
    Well, what does the president have to do with it again.

    For balls like you, only Stalin is to blame for everything.

    ... but in natural selection
    Putin is better anyway ....
  • Glarear Offline Glarear
    Glarear 2 October 2020 19: 46
    0
    Because of this, the timing of the launch of the aircraft in the series shifted to the right ...

    - and why not stylistically stick to the traditional formulations about early entry or postponed (postponed) entry date instead of this silly "shifted to the right ...".

    Do you really want as many ordinary undemanding people as possible to feel awe of how cool you are that you are somewhere right on the "edge" of "modern" linguistic delights?
    You have to be simpler and many readers will not have to remember where there is "right" or "left" and how you need to turn to your text in order to understand what you are writing about ...
  • Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 2 October 2020 20: 47
    +2
    So in the Russian Federation it is necessary to shoot those who ruined domestic production and yelled that everything can be bought abroad, supposedly better and cheaper than domestic goods, and then reanimate factories such as Electronics and Elektropribor in Voronezh and then everything will be ok ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Vladimir VLvov Offline Vladimir VLvov
    Vladimir VLvov (Vladimir VLvov) 2 October 2020 21: 50
    +3
    I hope many still remember how in 2014. Dm. Rogozin, who at that time was Deputy Prime Minister, very energetically declared to V. Putin and the whole country that We, of course ... in 2-3 years Surely ... We will master and We will produce in the Russian Federation ALL products that Ukraine refused to supply to Russia .. He promised "40 barrels of prisoners" and "went into the bushes ..." - turned out to be a pitiful Chatterbox. Now he continues to promise miracles in astronautics, although it is clear that he is bluffing again, postponing the implementation of the lunar and Martian programs, as well as the development of new carriers and ships for manned flights. And even if only henna - no responsibility for missed deadlines and thrown away tens and hundreds of billions of folk remedies.
    As for the refusal to supply "black wings" for the MS-21, I would like to ask questions:
    - what the government of the Russian Federation and the AP were thinking about when the petrodollars in 2005-15. flowed like a river, while in such fabulous conditions no investments were made in the development of their own electronic industry, high-tech chemistry, machine-tool building, turbine construction, the production of diesel engines for sea vessels, in the development of domestic seed farming, livestock breeding and many other industries that are still or absent altogether or catastrophically lag behind advanced countries.
  • mikhail.rybakov2017 (mikhail rybakov) 3 October 2020 04: 12
    0
    Until the thunder strikes, the man will not cross himself.

    Our leadership, without a king in the head, has brought the industry to the handle. Where are Putin's falcons from the presidential program "Russian leaders"?
  • olpin51 Offline olpin51
    olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 12 October 2020 19: 43
    0
    Quote: igor.igorev
    The NK-32 is a good engine, but definitely not the best.

    Come on, come on, which one is better?