Russia regains its status as a great maritime power


Once upon a time, England was called the ruler of the seas. Lord, how long has it been. The fleet was gone - the mistress of the seas was gone, and later England, as a world power, was gone. So-so, a dog in a pack of American decrepit wolfhound. He can still feed, but she herself is nowhere without an owner.


Ask how many nuclear submarines does it have? You will laugh - alone. More precisely, there are ten officially in the ranks (not counting three under construction). But of these ten, 4 Vanguard-class SSBNs should be disposed of in the next 5-7 years (old submarines from the 90s, the only carriers of British nuclear weapons), are serving their time, and the Royal Navy has no replacement for them yet. Of the remaining six nuclear submarines - 3 MPLATRK of the Trafalgar type, even more ancient than the Vanguard SSBN (built in the early 90s), are awaiting decommissioning due to faults in the nuclear power plant discovered on one of them in February 2017 (while all three are out of service). And of the remaining three most modern British MPLATRK (multipurpose missile and torpedo nuclear submarines) of the new generation of the Astyut type, two are afloat, one is under repair. But one of those who are afloat - the cook got sick with COVID-19 and the whole team is in quarantine, so she, too, is not yet ready to perform combat missions. So there is only one left. And the three under construction of the same type of "Astyut" (one of which is already undergoing sea trials), have problems, and whether the British will finish building them - the question? What are the problems you ask? All the same - again Putin crossed the road to them.

The fact is that not so long ago, namely in April 2018, when another exacerbation began in Syria, and the Indefatigable Cowboy decided to scare Assad with his Mad Tomahawks (and scared him by firing 103 missiles at the ATS, according to the Russian General Staff), in this the operation was also attended by the newest British MPLATRK of the "Astyut" type. But she did not fulfill her combat mission for the reason (you’ll laugh now!) That it was prevented from doing this by our two diesel-electric submarines Veliky Novgorod and Kolpino of project 636 Varshavyanka. And although the diesel-electric submarines data are new (manufactured in 2016), but already by the name of the project you understand that these boats are old (they were used in the countries of the "Warsaw Pact", which has not been there for 30 years!). It is clear that the project was being modernized, but the fact that diesel submarines were able to disrupt the execution of the combat mission of the latest British nuclear submarine led the British Admiralty to think about the need to curtail this program and whether the remaining two MPLATRKs will be completed - another question?

The End of American Gunboat Policy


But even greater problems arose for the hegemon, against which all the problems of his British mongrel were not problems at all. And again, Putin was to blame. The fact is that until now the entire US military strategy has been based on the fact that America is very far from possible theaters of operations. That untied her hands and, under the cover of aircraft-carrying strike groups, allowed her to talk to everyone, spitting on the floor, from a position of strength. But the emergence of a new strategic hypersonic weapon of the Avangard, Dagger and Zircon type in the Russian Federation, not to mention the Petrel and Poseidon, (Poseidon and Zircon, by the way, are just now passing recent testsbefore they go into the series), brought this advantage to naught, and drew the final line under the American soreness that set everyone on edge.policies gunboat ".

What Putin honestly and frankly said in December 2018. Here I am forced to quote verbatim the words of the GDP:

We did not, as you see, make any secret from our plans, but talked about it openly and honestly, in order, above all, to encourage our partners to negotiate. But nobody wanted to listen to us. So listen now!

I would like to emphasize that, unlike our Western "partners", we did everything openly. At the same time, we, as always, did not threaten anyone. But we will not allow anyone to threaten us! Hopefully, the emergence of this completely new type of weapon will make many in Washington and Brussels wonder if they are in such a hurry to the next world?

But the inhabitants of the “city on the hill”, representatives of an exceptional nation, listened to Putin and did the opposite, naively believing that their military doctrine of global domination, built on the use of 10 powerful AUG (aircraft carrier strike groups), which are practically invulnerable, since they are covered by submarine under water, and from the air missile threat with the Aegis missile defense system from heavy cruisers and escort destroyers, it allows them to talk to everyone through their lips. I draw your attention - with everyone, but not with the Russians! The situation has changed dramatically since December 26, 2018. The appearance of our Avangard hypersonic missile systems, capable of maneuvering along course and pitch, develop a speed of Mach 27 in the final section of the trajectory, transforms all their aircraft carriers, heavy missile cruisers of the Ticonderoga class, large landing ships and all other floating debris, on which their Marine Corps is stationed and travels the world, in fact, to the mass graves of the crews along with the Marines stationed there. And the usual Russian frigate of the "admiral's" series with the "Zircon" on board is becoming a serious threat to the entire aircraft carrier group.

Add to this the hypersonic "Dagger", which has already been put into service on the platform of the MiG-31K interceptor, and "Poseidon" (an unmanned nuclear-powered underwater vehicle, the only underwater vehicle capable of destroying an aircraft carrier with a high probability) - and it will become clear that the era invulnerable aircraft carrier groups in the next two to three years will end. And this is a very specific term, not a vague prospect. As a result, the use of aircraft carrier strike groups will become not only meaningless, but also very dangerous.

Spain ceased to be an empire after the Spanish navy ceded control of the seas to the British. England remained "the ruler of the seas" exactly until the German submarines appeared. The course of history is inexorable. The US Navy aircraft carrier strike groups suffered the same fate as the fate of the Spanish Armada, followed by the monstrous British dreadnoughts that replaced it, who had already failed the exam given by German submarines ... History repeats itself. However, the lessons of history teach us only that they teach nothing ...

The Russian Navy expands its presence in the World Ocean


Against the background of all of the above, Putin's participation in the simultaneous laying of 6 pennants of ships of the far sea zone, which took place on the eve of the next Navy Day, looks especially indicative. On that day, July 20, two newest frigates of the modernized project 22350 “Admiral Yumashev” and “Admiral Spiridonov” were laid down at the Severnaya Verf in St. Petersburg. Severodvinsk PO Sevmash has two nuclear-powered multipurpose missile submarine cruisers of the 4th generation of project 885M Yasen-M Voronezh and Vladivostok. And at the Kerch shipyard Zaliv, Putin personally took part in laying the foundation stone of the first Russian universal amphibious assault helicopter carriers Ivan Rogov and Mitrofan Moskalenko of Project 23900 Priboy, improved and enlarged analogues of the French Mistrals.


Ships for the Navy, which are currently under construction (purple - at the stage of factory testing)

Special mention should be made of Russian helicopter carriers - this is a completely new type of ships for us, capable of autonomously performing combat missions in the coastal zone at a great distance from our shores (autonomy - 60 days, cruising range - 6 thousand nautical miles). The large amphibious assault ships (BDK) that we have on the balance sheet of the Navy, in fact, solved other tasks. They were intended to transport troops and equipment point-to-point. Loading, 40-50 hours of crossing by sea, unloading (or disembarkation, that's how lucky). It was not possible to use them for moving and basing expeditionary forces for any length of time. 3-5 days, then either disembarkation, or home, because on board the habitability is not very good - they were not created for those tasks.

Another thing is the new UDC "Priboy". They can serve as a large, technically well-equipped, mobile base of the expeditionary forces, from which one can both land troops on a foreign shore in order to capture it, and ensure the actions of ground forces in depth. Which is quite consistent with the new status of the Russian Federation. In other words, like aircraft carriers, UDCs are a tool for geopolitical projection of power. The fact that Russia has begun to build them, and even two at once, indicates that the Russian Federation is not only declaring its new status as a world power, but is also going to confirm it in practice. Until now, we have not been concerned with such things, God forbid, it was to defend our interests at least along the perimeter of our own border. Now the situation has changed.

Fleet problems


In fairness, it should be noted that for all the bravado of the marches, the situation with our Navy, which Putin inherited, was awful. During the years of EBN's reign, we actually lost it and lost all competences for its construction and modernization. For clarity, I will give only such figures: for the years of the Second World War 1941 ... 45 years, the irrecoverable losses of the Soviet Navy amounted to 365 ships. And for the first half of the EBN rule of 1991 ... 97 years, only 629 ships were written off for needles (for scrap). As a result, by 2010, we still had 136 ships of 1-4 ranks out of those available in 1985, during our historical peak of power - 1561. According to this indicator, the USSR Navy was then the second in the world, second only to the US Navy. As of 2019, according to the National Interest, we are already third, yielding to the second line of the PRC, barely overtaking the UK, which is in fourth. Draw your own conclusions!

It got to the point that in 2011, the former commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, Chairman of the Defense Committee, Admiral V. Komoedov, said that

the superiority of only the Turkish fleet, even over the combined fleets of Ukraine and Russia, is 4,7 times, (Lord, then we were still friends with Ukraine, how long ago was that ?!), and if we compare our fleet with all NATO naval forces in Europe, then their superiority is about 20 times.

Admiral Igor Kasatonov, another former commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet and now an adviser to the Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Ministry of Defense, added:

The list of tasks that the Russian fleets have and can carry out today is actually limited to coastal protection and anti-terrorist activities - but all this is at the level of territorial waters.

In 2018, Business Insider magazine considered it significant that the ships of the Russian Navy were sent on long voyages accompanied by towing equipment, coming to the conclusion that at the moment the main problem of the Russian Navy was the problem of maintenance.

For the first half of his term in office, in order to maintain strategic parity, the GDP was forced to support only the submarine - a nuclear submarine fleet with strategic nuclear weapons on board. And then - to a minimum! Now the situation has begun to change for the better. But it will take years and years. The times of the Union, when we riveted like saucepans for 5-6 nuclear submarines a year, unfortunately, are irrevocably gone. Last 2019, when we launched 3 nuclear submarine cruisers with nuclear weapons on board at once, 7 multipurpose missile diesel-electric submarines with cruise "Caliber", plus 21 more surface ships - it was just a feat of some sort! Therefore, in the future we are going to take not by quantity, but by quality, creating samples of weapons based on new physical principles.

From here we will threaten the Swedes


In support of the above, I will give just one example. And for clarity, I will quote the enemy media. Here is what the American Forbes writes:

Russia is developing a completely new project of nuclear submarines (nuclear submarines), whose unique capabilities will change the tactics of waging submarine warfare. The newest lead boat "Khabarovsk", equipped with the underwater vehicle "Poseidon", should be launched at the earliest in late June (there is no exact date yet). This will be the main submarine of the 2020s. Russia has managed to keep secret many of the characteristics of this submarine. Little is known about this large nuclear powered boat, especially when compared to Western designs. We know that the submarine is being built in the first workshop of the Sevmash production association in Severodvinsk. Therefore, military analysts are waiting for its launch with great impatience.

The front half of the Khabarovsk hull will be occupied by six huge Poseidon torpedoes. This is precisely the uniqueness of the new submarine, the article says. Poseidon, also known as Status 6 and NATO codename Kanyon, is equipped with a nuclear power plant and nuclear warhead. This gives it practically unlimited range. The Russian Ministry of Defense calls it a multipurpose weapon, according to its data, this device can be used against aircraft carrier strike groups of the US Navy.

In fact, Khabarovsk is not the first Russian submarine to be equipped with Poseidons. Russia has an equally mysterious special-purpose submarine "Belgorod", launched on April 23, 2019. It will also be equipped with six Poseidon vehicles. But it will have a dual purpose. She will also become a carrier for the deep-sea mini-submarine "Losharik

- сообщает to your Forbes readers.

Khabarovsk will not be the last submarine with Poseidons. It is planned to build two more boats of project 098531. In total, Russia will have four submarines with Poseidons, six on each. Even less is known about this new project, the magazine emphasizes.

Unless Russia's plans change, Khabarovsk will be the focus of Western anti-submarine warfare specialists for the next decade. Particular attention will be paid to this boat by the US and British navies, whose nuclear submarines have long followed Russian submarines. Poseidon-equipped submarines will create new problems for these hunting submarines. In addition, Poseidon's speed and depth make it virtually invulnerable to the current generation of modern torpedoes.

- indicated in the Forbes publication.

Another publication EADaily previously reported:

The Poseidon's carrier, the Project 098531 Khabarovsk nuclear submarine, will be launched in the coming months, and the tests will continue for about two more years. According to sources in the military-industrial complex, the first launch of the Poseidon unmanned underwater vehicle will take place this fall from the Belgorod nuclear submarine, which is the first experimental carrier of these drones.

On my own I would add that the enemies, as always, were only slightly mistaken. The name of the project was confused - not 098531, but 09851. Together with our other secret project 09852 "Belgorod", we will have four such Poseidon carriers. Two each in the Northern Fleet and in the Pacific. Our other publicly available military secrets are below.

Information: The performance characteristics of the Khabarovsk submarine project have not been officially disclosed. According to data from open sources, the submarine's displacement is about 10 thousand tons, the speed is 30–32 knots, the diving depth is 500 meters, the autonomy is up to 120 days, the crew is at least 100 people.


The following is known from the special purpose nuclear submarine Belgorod: The Antey-class nuclear submarine K-329 Belgorod (project 09852, an analogue of Kursk) was built at the Severodvinsk plant Sevmash for 26 years, since 1992, it was frozen, the weapons were changed, cruise missiles were replaced by "Poseidons", the purpose of the nuclear submarine was changed, now it is used as a standard carrier-mother aircraft of the AS-31 "Losharik" project 10831 (in fact, two nuclear submarines in one). Launched in April 2019. Delivery to the Russian Navy is scheduled for September 2020.

As for the Poseidons: In fact, it is an intercontinental autonomous torpedo with a nuclear power plant, with a cruising range of up to 10 thousand kilometers and a speed of more than 200 kilometers per hour under water. She can move to a depth of 1000 meters under water. The Poseidon nuclear warhead, according to open sources, has a yield of 2 to 100 megatons in TNT equivalent.

In general, it will not seem enough to anyone. According to our sworn "friends" from NATO, the combat readiness of the Russian Navy has reached its highest point since the early 1990s, thanks to Putin's efforts, and submarines are the most modern part of it. And here they are not mistaken, the submarine fleet is the only part of the Navy that Russia has decided to keep at a level close to the Soviet one. As of today, the Russian Navy includes 13 nuclear submarines (nuclear submarines) armed with ballistic missiles, 27 nuclear submarines with missile and torpedo weapons, 19 diesel-electric submarines (diesel-electric submarines) armed with "Caliber", 8 special-purpose nuclear submarines and 1 diesel-electric submarines for special purposes.

Summary


From here we will threaten the Swede, or rather the Yankees. Get ready, comrade. imperialists! There are hundreds of ways to drive a bear out of a den, but there is no single way to drive it back. If you want to test this statement for yourself, then welcome to hell!
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  1. Sergey Tokarev Offline
    Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) 30 July 2020 10: 38
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    Russia will not threaten anyone ... neither the Swedes, nor their pocket dogs from the ruins. Well, Russia will not liberate Kiev)))
    1. Volkonsky Offline
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 July 2020 10: 48
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      Uncle, find at least one word about Kiev in this article ?! Spring Fever? So the spring is long over!
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      2. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 30 July 2020 21: 22
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        The joker is the author ... Yeah, we'll scare everyone overseas with our mosquito fleet, maybe they'll die of laughter, if they don't die, then run away who can :)) Let's compare the NATO fleet with all the enemies of the Russian Federation, and their majority, and our friend is the last Belarus, yes and that one without a fleet ... Not the first of April to joke like that ...
        1. Lawyer Offline
          Lawyer (Olaf) 31 July 2020 05: 33
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          Shapkozakidatel would advise to dig deeper into the question about the engines of the Russian Navy and to find out more precisely about the situation with hyper-missiles.
          And how quickly the Russian fleet is able to remain without ships - I would advise you to take a look in a book about the history of Russia and the USSR. :)
          Well, a person cannot sleep without the Russian fleet in the Atlantic. :)
          1. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 4 August 2020 20: 26
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            They continue to launch, hulls without engines.
            Here, and the UDC, laid in our Crimea, but about the engines - silence. Maybe there will be.
            1. Sapsan136 Offline
              Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 6 August 2020 20: 11
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              It’s interesting, when the third frigate 22350 on domestic engines comes out at sea, for sea trials, talkers like you will hang themselves, or they will feed us with fables, in the style of chatter about an allegedly nonexistent bridge to Crimea ?!
              1. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) Yesterday, 00: 34
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                I wonder when the last three of Project 11356, with Saturn gas turbine engines, will go out to sea, should I hang myself or drown myself? Well, near Mostishchisch?
                So what about engines for UDC?
  2. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 30 July 2020 12: 16
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    When reading the article, the question - WHY? Why is Russia becoming an ocean power? Why does Russia need such a large fleet? What does Russia get from the opportunity to sink US aircraft carriers? To get some moral pleasure? I always believed that the presence of a strong fleet should materialize in some kind of benefits, otherwise - WHY?
    1. Sergey Tokarev Offline
      Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) 30 July 2020 12: 32
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      They will take quality, not quantity ... In order to sink an aircraft-carrying group of Americans near Syria, the Black Sea Fleet does not even need to go to sea.
    2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
      Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 30 July 2020 20: 20
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      Quote: AlexZN
      When reading the article, the question - WHY? Why is Russia becoming an ocean power?

      And I have a question constantly looming. What for? Why did the US naval power build torture rooms at each VM base? What, there are not enough blacks for Kukluklan in their native prairies?
      Democratic countries have built a straight line for the extermination of people. Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Romania, Bulgaria ...
      True, the Lithuanians were pierced. One was left alive. For which the ECHP fined them 124 thousand euros. In order to properly dispose of the corpses, we did not hope that it might "die by itself."
      1. Syoma_67 Offline
        Syoma_67 (Semyon) 30 July 2020 21: 18
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        Why is Russia becoming an ocean power

        - what do you mean why? We slept through space, the sky too, with robotics, electronics and other high technologies a complete ass, do you need to prove it? It remains to try yourself in the sea, such a third series of "Water World".
        1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
          Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 30 July 2020 21: 29
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          Quote: Syoma_67
          We slept through space, the sky too, with robotics, electronics and other high technologies, a complete ass

          Soon the phrase "How far from Russia are you" will be called by F2. laughing
      2. Volkonsky Offline
        Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 July 2020 21: 35
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        Because torture on your territory is prohibited under American law.
        1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
          Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 30 July 2020 21: 43
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          Not Americans - you can.
          Butova was kept in a cold cell and was not allowed to sleep, and medical assistance was denied. Not yet convicted - no human rights.
          Americans, too, can, if not publicized.
          For there are no witnesses - there is no precedent.
          1. Lawyer Offline
            Lawyer (Olaf) 31 July 2020 14: 06
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            The man personally went through the dungeons of the CIA and the Pentagon. He was taken from base to base and tortured, tortured, tortured ...
            True, it is not clear why amers do this.
            The man presents them as like the devil and the police in his Khimki.
            Then everything fits together.
            1. 123 Offline
              123 (123) 31 July 2020 18: 59
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              The man personally went through the dungeons of the CIA and the Pentagon. He was taken from base to base and tortured, tortured, tortured ...
              True, it is not clear why amers do this.

              Why why ... I like the process itself. This smiling old woman Gina loves to watch people being tortured.


              The man presents them as like the devil and the police in his Khimki.
              Then everything fits together.

              Have you confused Khimki with Mariupol? Maybe it's enough to earn enough, it's time to return home?

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    4. Lawyer Offline
      Lawyer (Olaf) 31 July 2020 05: 35
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      And the author sits in a town with broken roads and drunken cops and dreams that the Americans, perhaps, will also soon be sitting with drunk cops.
      Or the person is unwell.
    5. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 31 July 2020 18: 50
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      When reading the article, the question - WHY? Why is Russia becoming an ocean power? Why does Russia need such a large fleet? What does Russia get from the opportunity to sink US aircraft carriers? To get some moral pleasure? I always believed that the presence of a strong fleet should materialize in some kind of benefits, otherwise - WHY?

      Try to replace Russia with the USA or China, perhaps it will become clearer.
      1. Lawyer Offline
        Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 06: 38
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        Sorry, you can't replace it.
        Both will bring the 21st century into the world, albeit in different competing versions.
        And what will your dear Motherland bring?
        An extra chromosome due to the use of ethyl alcohol by the last ten generations?
        1. 123 Offline
          123 (123) 1 August 2020 08: 11
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          Sorry, you can't replace it.
          Both will bring the 21st century into the world, albeit in different competing versions.

          I would not like to disappoint you, but the XXI century has already arrived, about 20 years ago ... repeat

          And what will your dear Motherland bring?

          Our respected Motherland will not bring anything to anyone, she is not a waiter, get used to living on your own ...

          An extra chromosome due to the use of ethyl alcohol by the last ten generations?

          ABOUT!!! Do you suppose chromosomes appear from alcohol? Discovery of Ukrainian scientists? I hope you wrote a thesis on this topic? By the way, how are you doing with this? If we are talking about tens of generations, then this could not ignore you. laughing Have you counted your chromosomes? How many of them do you have? Less than ours? Or Germans and Swedes? It would be very interesting to hear about your research on this issue. yes
          1. Lawyer Offline
            Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 09: 42
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            Actually, I know that we are 21st. The uncertainty about you. The world is rolling into the future, and you begin the stage of absolutism that everyone has passed through. As for the extra chromosome, I recommend you read medical scientists.
            As for your homeland, you are true. It will take it away. :) The extra chromosome, unfortunately, bypassed me, because, judging by the last name, my ancestors had been learning letters from childhood for four hundred years in Germany and Poland, so the maximum is kiddush wine on Saturdays. :)
            As for the Germans, they are not aware of the chromosomes, but it was not our Ben Lazar who told the world about your excesses, but your Minister.
            And who am I to question the words of the entire Minister of the Russian Federation?
            Worm!:(
            1. 123 Offline
              123 (123) 1 August 2020 10: 28
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              Actually, I know that we are 21st. The uncertainty about you.

              Do you think these are different time zones? laughing

              The world is rolling into the future, and you begin the stage of absolutism that everyone has passed through.

              Rolling means downhill. Good luck to him, a tailwind on a humped back. yes

              You are true about your Motherland. Will take it. :)

              Who will take what and from whom? You speak in riddles.

              The extra chromosome, unfortunately, bypassed me, because, judging by the surname, my ancestors had been learning letters in Germany and Poland for four hundred years from childhood, probably, so the maximum kiddush wine on Saturdays. :)
              As for the Germans, they do not know about chromosomes, but it was not our Ben Lazar who told the world about your excesses, but your Minister.

              Are you claiming that your last name is a lawyer? belay "Our Ben-Lazar, kiddush wine on Saturdays" .... I have to open your eyes, if you haven't just thought of it all, I have some unpleasant news for you ..... be strong ... you are adopted in the family. crying Or you need to dig into the pedigree. Write uchОOnly a native of a distant farm near Ternopil who is not less than a third generation can provide medical doctors. There is such a state of mind, roguel. It is typical for him to rank himself among other nations: if a girl wants to appear more beautiful, she calls herself Russian, if a person wants to appear smarter, he calls himself a Jew. But this does not help much, everything is rushing out. It is a pity that such individuals are being judged about the whole nation, and it goes to both Russians and Jews, but most of all Ukrainians.

              And who am I to question the words of the entire Minister of the Russian Federation?
              Worm!:(

              Self-critical.
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              2. Lawyer Offline
                Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 11: 05
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                Ben started the car. In fact, Berl, of course. If you want so, then you can - I will Skunk?
                If I seem to you to be hiding today, then so be it.
                I'm not very good at them in general, especially since today there are a lot of them here with Blue Paper, and the Romanians were better - but after the age of 14 I just changed my attitude towards you very much. And after the Ilovaisk massacre, he stopped seeing Russian people altogether.
                God be with him, with the butchers of Ilovaisk, well, how many were there? But I was amazed at how your families reacted.
                You are everything to me today - killing the weak.
                With delight.
                On THEIR land that you recognized THEM and recorded it in Budapest.
                And if you do this with people who differ from you only in the pronunciation of the letter G, then what are you doing with us, with those whom you imprisoned in the ghetto of settled life, for whom there was a percentage in universities and who was to blame for the fact that he Berezovsky, not Potanin?
                Here you remember Berezovsky, but Landau - no.
                What do you want from me, a skunk who knows all this and sees it all?
                1. Crimean Connecting Rod (Eugene) 1 August 2020 12: 20
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                  On May 14, 2018, Israeli occupiers shot at an unarmed Palestinian demonstration, 59 people were killed, including teenagers. You are now my executioners, murderers and sadists.
                  1. Lawyer Offline
                    Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 12: 37
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                    Yes? And what can you say about the bombing of Syrian hospitals and schools + but about the Russian dismemberment in the video of a Syrian, eh?;)
                    Moreover, your fact became the subject of proceedings in the Knesset, where there are a lot of Arabs and the perpetrators would have sat down - and what have you got about the Russian bombing in the basements of Grozny?
                    Mass murder of compatriots. I still don’t remember about the houses in Volgodonsk.
                    They would be silent too.
                    1. 321 Offline
                      321 (321) 1 August 2020 15: 14
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                      Quote: Lawyer
                      ..., And what can you say about the bombing of Syrian hospitals and schools + but about the Russian dismemberment in the video of a Syrian, eh?;)
                      Moreover, your fact became the subject of proceedings in the Knesset, where there are a lot of Arabs and the perpetrators would have sat down ...

                      I can only tell you that you should not use such "sources of information", and what is going on in your Knesset - but who cares, at least run on the ceiling - there, at home ...

                      Quote: Lawyer
                      ... and what have you got about the bombing of the Russians in the basements of Grozny? The mass murder of compatriots ... I still don't remember about the houses in Volgodonsk.
                      They would be silent too.

                      Well, on what trash heap did you find it, that's where you yourself and comment - at least about the basements, at least about Volgodonsk, but about being silent - start with yourself, there are a lot of teachers here, there won't be enough pillars soon, and oh, how many of them are with your promised one - why would that be? hi
                2. 321 Offline
                  321 (321) 1 August 2020 15: 36
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                  Quote: Lawyer
                  ... but after 14, I just changed my attitude towards you a lot.
                  And after the Ilovaisk massacre, he stopped seeing Russian people altogether ...

                  What a tragedy for all of us laughing himself ... with an incomprehensible surname, and by the way, he stopped seeing something there and changed - we all just got worried, but you at least jump up - I have at least this, at least another opinion - from the high bell tower ...

                  Quote: Lawyer
                  ... God be with him, with the butchers of Ilovaisk, how many were there? But I was amazed at how your sowers reacted.
                  You are everything to me today ... who kill the weak.
                  With delight ...

                  Comment on your own fantasies. ...

                  Quote: Lawyer
                  ... On THEIR land, which you recognized THEM and recorded it in Budapest ...

                  Go and learn the materiel - what is a memorandum and what else is needed in order for it ... but by the way, why should you write all this here - you will find it yourself, it's time for you to learn at least something yourself ... hi

                  Quote: Lawyer
                  ... And if you do this with people who differ from you only in the pronunciation of the letter G, then what are you doing with us, with those whom you imprisoned in the ghetto of settled life, for whom there was a percentage in universities and who was to blame for the fact that is he Berezovsky, not Potanin?
                  Here you remember Berezovsky, but Landau - no ...

                  Your given opus strongly resembles what is now being promoted in the Americas - well, so that those living nowadays would answer for what was some centuries ago - well, keep dreaming.

                  Quote: Lawyer
                  ... What do you want from me, a skunk who knows all this and sees it all?

                  The only thing I agree with you is that with the first part of your answer here, you strongly resemble it, the smell is about the same ...
                  But about the one who knows and even more so who sees - judging by your comments, there are strong doubts about you. bully
            2. magma Offline
              magma (Tatyana) 2 August 2020 08: 27
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              And who am I ... Worm!

              You have very precisely identified your place in the food chain. smile
            3. 2534 Offline
              2534 2 August 2020 19: 55
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              Quote: Lawyer
              The world is rolling into the future

              In my "bulging naval eye", it is not rolling into the "future", but SLIPPING.
        2. 321 Offline
          321 (321) 1 August 2020 12: 59
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          Quote: Lawyer
          Sorry, you can't replace it.
          Both will bring the 21st century into the world, albeit in different competing versions.
          And what will your dear Motherland bring?
          An extra chromosome due to the use of ethyl alcohol by the last ten generations?

          About the fact that the twenty-first century has ALREADY come, and even approximately when, they have already written to you, but their attempts to "discover" in medicine - well, if you have absolutely nothing to do - of course, you can, this situation with your attempts to improve medical science is already a long time ago they described "... there was sense from him, however, like from a goat of milk, but there was no harm either ..." (c) bully
          And a whole minister - well, as you wrote here, he characterized a completely different situation, but you don't know this, it seems ... hi
          What will our Motherland do? - and what do you care about this? You and others like you, who have a common name - Russophobes - do not need to know about this at all. hi
          PS Your knowledge leaves much to be desired not only about the study of contract law and international law, too, from the textbooks of jurisprudence, you, it turns out, are not only "iksperd" in this. laughing bully negative
          1. Lawyer Offline
            Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 13: 09
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            I will not argue. The West supports my opinion, and Myanmar supports yours. Chi there Burundi with cannibals from Santa Leone. Chi there Sierra Leone ... We have different companies.
            1. 321 Offline
              321 (321) 1 August 2020 18: 16
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              Quote: Lawyer
              I will not argue. The West supports my opinion, and Myanmar supports yours. Chi there Burundi with cannibals from Santa Leone. Chi there Sierra Leone ...
              We have different companies.

              Of course, you won't - for you, and not only for you, it's so difficult to understand for some reason that someone else's opinion - even if the West, at least someone interests me quite a bit - but you, like your state, cannot afford this, which is just another and confirmed ... bully
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  3. 2534 Offline
    2534 2 August 2020 19: 59
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    Quote: Lawyer
    opinion is supported by the West

    What is the "opinion of the West", the story with Snowden showed perfectly - as soon as the United States growled in irritation, the whole West "made a stand."
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 30 July 2020 13: 05
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    Yes. Something pathetic goes off scale. IMHO, at the level of feuilletons of the 30s, when "with one blow, but on foreign territory."
    I. All peremogs are somewhere out there, far away ... in the future and over the hill ...
    1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
      Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 30 July 2020 20: 23
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      Quote: Sergey Latyshev
      when "with one blow, but on foreign territory."

      One blow to the territory of the United States is enough, even in the desert, and the population will die out from a heart attack. Everyone is so intimidated.
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 30 July 2020 23: 11
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        Have you come up with?

        They go on excursions to the Nevada desert, to see the funnels ...

        And the population is still decreasing only here, without any blows ...
        1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
          Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 31 July 2020 07: 37
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          Quote: Sergey Latyshev
          Have you come up with?

          There was a precedent. In 1942. Two Japanese planes, delivered to the US coast by a submarine and dropping 2 bombs on a small town, caused the flight of hundreds of thousands of Americans from the US west coast.
          1. Lawyer Offline
            Lawyer (Olaf) 31 July 2020 14: 13
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            Fairy tales for kindergarten.
            They dropped incendiary bombs on the forest, and the population of a couple of villages had to be evacuated. The funds fell short of the goal. On the way back, the aircraft carrier was knocked out.
            By the way, when the Germans tried to drag the carrier boat closer to Washington, the Americans covered the entire Atlantic with dead fish.
            So, there is no need here to belittle the superiority of Western technologies over fanatical woodburners and those who want to shit on the lawn in front of Congress.
            1. 123 Offline
              123 (123) 31 July 2020 19: 07
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              So, there is no need here to belittle the superiority of Western technologies over fanatical woodburners and those who want to shit on the lawn in front of Congress.

              Any technology in the hands of a barbarian turns into a means of destruction. Everyone remembers the Vietnamese jungle.
              Shit on the lawn in front of the congress is useless, the workers will instantly eliminate all the consequences.
            2. 321 Offline
              321 (321) 1 August 2020 18: 34
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              Quote: Lawyer
              Fairy tales for kindergarten.
              They dropped incendiary bombs on the forest, and the population of a couple of villages had to be evacuated. The funds did not meet the goal... On the way back, the aircraft carrier was knocked out.
              By the way, when the Germans tried to drag the carrier boat closer to Washington, the Americans covered the entire Atlantic with dead fish ...

              Ask at your leisure what the losses were from the event of a certain Dolittle, so the goal is NOT always to inflict maximum material damage, there are other things, study ...
          2. Sergey Latyshev Offline
            Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 1 August 2020 08: 13
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            Have you come up with?

            We know about bombs, shelling and balloons (any hyper-weapons in Japan turned out to be more zilch)

            And about the flight, either ours or the Mexicans would have been quick to pour it over ... but neither hearing nor spirit ...

            On the contrary, for a long time the Americans themselves could not understand what kind of strange small fires occur in uninhabited places.

            US radio and press reported where strange fires occurred, ...
            1. Lawyer Offline
              Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 12: 53
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              Yeah, the best weapon is to make shit at the entrance. In the States, I was always amazed at the naivety of amers. Then he looked at Zadornov and somehow disliked the cunning Russians.
              Sly on the little things.
              1. 321 Offline
                321 (321) 2 August 2020 06: 38
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                Quote: Lawyer
                Yeah, the best weapon is to make shit at the entrance. In the States, I was always amazed at the naivety of amers. Then he looked at Zadornov and somehow disliked the cunning Russians. Sly on the little things.

                The number of simply people who are even worse about your nation is much greater, but you pretend (everyone) that this is not so ... laughing
      2. Natan bruk Offline
        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 31 July 2020 00: 29
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        This is just as true the other way around. For many years in Russia, there has been an incessant anti-Western hysteria. They are certainly no less intimidated. If not more. One blow to the territory of Russia, even to the dense taiga, is enough - and the entire population will die out from a heart attack.
        1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
          Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 31 July 2020 07: 44
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          Quote: Natan Bruk
          For many years in Russia, there has been an incessant anti-Western hysteria.

          Sorry. And 3 million killed in Iraq - is this not a warning to us? And the photos of Lindy England from Abu Ghraib are not a demonstration of the fate of submissive peoples by the White Sahibs?
          After all, she was not convicted of inhuman murders. Convicted for disclosing murders. Hundreds of times BlackWater shot people in cities. But only the publicity from the video led to the life imprisonment of several Blackwater men (with a pardon right in the courtroom), an order to change the name (BlackWater fulfilled the terrible sentence - now they are Academi), and the owner of BlackWater invested well in the gas transportation of Ukraine.
          Milosevic was convicted and destroyed for rebelliousness, with a thousand times less guilt than what Bush, Obama and Trump did.
          1. Natan bruk Offline
            Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 31 July 2020 08: 28
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            This is mostly propaganda. In Russia and the USSR, there were no fewer such excesses. They just did not spread about them. What was Afghanistan alone, there were few shootings of entire villages for disloyalty? And Syria? After all, they were bombed with bombs from the 50s from a great height and one can only imagine how many civilian casualties there were. But the Russian media do not talk about this, and the evidence from the outside is routinely declared a lie. And where did you get the 3 million? Yes, they would have written 33, why be ashamed of it. But in general, according to WHO estimates, the maximum number of deaths in Iraq is about 80 thousand. And thanks for this I must say to Saddam. If it had not climbed into Kuwait, it might still have been alive and the regime would have kept it. As for Milosevic - Yugoslavia was very unlucky that Tito, under whom Yugoslavia flourished and had excellent relations with both the West and the "East", did not find a worthy successor, and an oak-headed national communist came to power, who behaved like an elephant in a china shop and destroyed everything. And yet - both anti-Western and anti-Russian hysteria (although I was in the United States and there is noticeably less of it there - news about Russia is not at all in the first place there) - nothing more than propaganda with political goals. Great powers are doomed NOT to fight each other, because today it is a guarantee of mutual destruction. Yes, they are expanding NATO, yes, they are making Russia nervous, but there can be no war between NATO and Russia by definition, and alarmists simply use these fears for their own political purposes. Moreover, there is not much point in Putin's wunderwalks, since nuclear parity was and is and it equalizes everything. Both Russia and the United States had and still have a response to aggression unacceptable for the enemy.
            1. werevolf75 Offline
              werevolf75 (Vladimir) 31 July 2020 12: 24
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              laughing fool very funny
            2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
              Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 31 July 2020 16: 53
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              Quote: Natan Bruk
              As for Milosevic, Yugoslavia was very unlucky that Tito, under whom Yugoslavia flourished and had excellent relations with both the West and the "East"

              More precisely, let's say so - under Tito, two wolfhounds did not take their eyes off each other, and little Yugoslavia could spin under their feet. Then one wolfhound died, and Milosovic behaved like Tito - independently and stubbornly. They demanded obedience from him, Milosevic twisted a finger at his temple. We are INDEPENDENT AND FREE! The wolfhound roared, and with a pack of his mongrels tore apart Yugoslavia and Milosevic.
              By the way, the same garbage with Israel. It was created by Stalin, in spite of England and France. After Stalin's death, the Israelis moved under the wing of the United States, Nikita Sergeich was indifferent to Jews, but disliked the United States, so he relied on the Arabs.
              It seems that the USSR is dead, the USA is alive, and everything is in order ... Only now the USA got sick with tolerance, and Europe GENETICALLY hates Jews, supporting
              Palestinians hundreds of millions of euros. The United States dies - Israel will share the fate of Yugoslavia, because of the blockhead prime ministers who do not want to obey Brussels' orders.
              1. Natan bruk Offline
                Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 31 July 2020 17: 29
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                Nonsense. The fact of the matter is that Milosevic did not behave at all like Tito, namely, like an elephant in a china shop. Yugoslavia is a multinational country and in order to successfully govern it and prevent separatism, you need a lot of wisdom, but this Milosevic did not possess. Under Tito, all nationalities in general quite peacefully and successfully coexisted, while Milosevic, instead of reasonably and politically resolving the emerging contradictions, began to spread rot discontented left and right, to adopt discriminatory laws against non-Serbs, etc. Tito never I didn’t behave in this and dandy way, or, as you call it, "independently and stubbornly." He behaved SANELY. Therefore, under him Yugoslavia flourished. And the civil wars in Yugoslavia are a direct "merit" of Milosevic. Naturally, the Western world did not look at this calmly, and Milosevic, naturally, did not have enough intelligence to understand that this issue should be resolved only politically and in the event of a conflict with the West, it is doomed. About the genetic hatred of Jews in Europe is also generally nonsense. I have been there more than once and have not seen any hatred. It is another matter that there are a lot of migrants from the Middle East with their views, and the Europeans themselves largely become their hostages, and therefore all these gestures are in favor of the “oppressed Palestinians” and the payment of regular tribute to them. Nobody and any "orders of Brussels" in relation to Israel have not done and will not do, only the same symbolic boycott of goods from the "occupied" territories. Even greater nonsense regarding the United States and Israel. Firstly, it was NOT Stalin who created it. He supported diplomatically (which was, of course, important), allowed the Czechs to sell captured weapons to Israel (at exorbitant prices), but no more. Israel was created by the first Zionists and de facto to its official proclamation it already existed, although it was not recognized. Israel moved “under the wing of the United States” only in the early 70s, after it single-handedly defeated 5 regular united Arab armies supported by the USSR, and the United States realized which horse to bet on. Before that, they helped Israel a little less than nothing. Rather, on the contrary, it was not for nothing that the Israeli Air Force drowned an American reconnaissance ship in that war, suspecting it of transmitting information to the Arabs. Then, by the way, an embargo on arms supplies to Israel was declared in general. So even without the United States, Israel is quite capable of defending itself. And regarding “the USA will die”, so there is a saying about the fact that while the fat one dries, the thin one will die, and about “the USA is dead,” I hear as long as I can remember, well, that is, at least half a century.
                1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                  Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 31 July 2020 19: 52
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                  Quote: Natan Bruk
                  Tito never behaved in this and dandy way, or, as you call it, "independently and stubbornly." He behaved SANELY.

                  Of course, it is reasonable. Concentration camps for nat. troublemakers were closed only by Miloshovich. Under Tito, he only gave a hint about national superiority - 25 years of hard labor. Serb, Croat, Montenegrin, Albanian - no difference. For the most stubborn - a helicopter and parachute descent into a mountain gorge. Pinochet didn’t come up with such a thing.
                  Milosevic was accused of reprisals against four hundred "national activists" - Kosovars. And they started bombing. Moreover, loyal Albanians were also destroyed - the F-16 pilot twice requested the cancellation of the strike on the refugee camp, reporting that there were only tractors and tents. But, obeying the order, he struck, killing 800 people. Compare - 400 people imprisoned by Milosevic, and 800 people smashed to smithereens by Clinton.
                  But now Kosovo is the largest American military base in Europe. And a logistics hub for the export of abducted Europeans to Iraq and Afghanistan.
                  For the sake of such pleasure, neither Kosovar Indians nor Serbo Indians feel sorry for ...
                  1. Natan bruk Offline
                    Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 31 July 2020 21: 55
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                    You contradict yourself. Either you have Milosevic so "independent", then it turns out that in fact he is such a great humanist. The main thing here is that Tito knew how to maintain interethnic peace and the unity of the country, and knew how to do it. Moreover, in general, the regime in Yugoslavia was quite liberal, therefore relations with the West were good, and therefore the country was flourishing. Separatism was suppressed, yes, but again, you also need to be able to do it correctly. Have you ever thought why under Tito there were no special problems with Kosovo and the Kosovars, as well as with the Bosnians and Croats? Precisely because Tito knew how to lead such a country, he knew how to do all this. Therefore, she flourished. And the tragedy of Yugoslavia lies precisely in the fact that Tito did not find a worthy successor. And, you know, there are camps for troublemakers everywhere, and Russia is no exception. There, too, separatists are imprisoned for a sweet soul.
                    1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                      Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 1 August 2020 15: 15
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                      Quote: Natan Bruk
                      Either you have Milosevic so "independent", then it turns out that in fact he is such a great humanist.

                      What's so contradictory?
                      Milosevic is a humanist, legalist and naive person who believed that Europe was inhabited by people.
                      And I was cruelly mistaken. Europe is still inhabited by colonialists who value only animal submission. Therefore, as soon as they see the opportunity to transform people into corpses with impunity, they immediately get down to business. Milosevic without a Russian roof was, from the point of view of the colonialists, a naughty rabbit. And he was immediately taken to the tooth.
                      Much later, at a reception at the American Embassy in Belgrade, the US Ambassador cursed the Serbian Prime Minister, and even poked him in the face a couple of times (well, the Serbo Indian does not have a face - only a smelly face) with his fist. Completely without diplomatic consequences. Now Serbia is ruled by obedient Serbian leaders ...
                      1. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 August 2020 03: 35
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                        In fact, Milosevic is precisely the oak-headed national communist, through whose fault Yugoslavia was destroyed.
              2. Lawyer Offline
                Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 06: 43
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                Could you tell me exactly how Stalin helped the Etzel organization and Mr. Jabotinsky to create Israel? And then I have a historical misunderstanding going on.
                Please, colleague! :)))))
                1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                  Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 1 August 2020 14: 50
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                  Quote: Lawyer
                  how exactly did Stalin help the Etzel organization and Mr. Jabotinsky to create Israel?

                  The decision to create Israel was made at the Yalta Conference. Churchill was categorically against, Truman did not care about Jews, it was Stalin who pushed Churchill into creating Israel. Since the entire Middle East was under the protectorate of Britain and France. But France, for obvious reasons, dropped out of control.
                  The British authorities have drawn the borders of Israel. The pro-British Arabs decided to eliminate the misunderstanding, but Stalin again "slightly helped" with equipment, well, and the former British servicemen of Jewish nationality were enough to roll out hot, but extremely unstable Arab soldiers. Portraits of Stalin hung on all government agencies in Israel until 1953.
                  1. Natan bruk Offline
                    Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 August 2020 03: 39
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                    In fact, Israel was created long before the Yalta Conference, the UN decision only legalized it. Stalin never helped with any equipment, but only allowed Czechoslovakia to sell captured weapons to Israel (at exorbitant prices).
                    1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                      Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 2 August 2020 10: 43
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                      In fact, Israel was created by the British administration, according to the UN decision. And the first Israelites knew who they owed ...

                      https://elhow.ru/images/extra_articles/0/7/794/inner/18.jpg
                      1. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 August 2020 17: 15
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                        In fact, Israel was created in spite of the British administration. Take an interest in the "White Book", camps in Cyprus and other steps of the British, who in every possible way hindered the arrival of the Jews, as well as with whom Etzel, Haganah and Lehi fought.
          2. Lawyer Offline
            Lawyer (Olaf) 31 July 2020 14: 20
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            But the millions of Afghans killed by the Shuravi soldiers were also enough for many to go to NATO. So that..
            Moreover, Iraq was bombed aggressive, starting a war, killing its own Kurds - and Afghanistan was destroyed peaceful and friendly. It is not the fault of the States that people in Iraq are also incapable of creating their own effective self-government.
            They also want Truvor and Sineus.
            And the morality of the Yankees today prohibits the imprisonment of the occupation commandant's offices, as they once imprisoned in South Korea, Japan and Z. Germany.
            Although the result of their creation is that Russians today travel, watch and shove their beer into them.
            But could you give me an example of at least one country that became successful after the arrival of the Russians?
            Not, just not Buryatia. Name someone else.
            1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
              Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 31 July 2020 17: 18
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              Quote: Lawyer
              Moreover, Iraq was bombed aggressive, starting a war, killing its own Kurds - and Afghanistan was destroyed peaceful and friendly.

              How many Kurds were charged to Saddam? 200 thousand in 20 years? How much did Bush cut the population?
              3 million in 5 years. 15 times more, 4 times less for a period. Bush is 60 times more bloody dictator than Saddam. Under Saddam, cities were lit up, factories were working, in Baghdad you could walk calmly at midnight, hung with gold. Under Bush, the holiday of cannibalism came - museums were looted and taken out to the United States, soldiers and black-motorists wet jewelers right in bed - we need to share with democracy! About sewers and street lighting - roll to Mecca.
              But the fun began for the Kurds when Obama came to power. He also wanted free money, but the oil from the south was being robbed by the Bush clan. Then ISIS appeared out of nowhere, and began to kill the Kurds in the oil-rich regions. 500 thousand people during the Obama administration. Well, Assad also got it, he has a pipe to the sea.
              But then Putin came. ISIS had to be drained without taking a sip of kerosene. Weapons and money flowed to the Kurds. But the Turks began to shoot them.
              So under Saddam, the Kurds lived much more freely than under the bloody democrats.
              As far as Afghanistan is concerned, the Americans are also taking in peaceful air. They came, adjusted the drug traffic (under the Taliban in Afghanistan, barely 200 tons of heroin were produced, now 4 thousand tons per year), CIA planes carry the heroin to Pristina, from there - everywhere. And they are not going to leave. Heroin may be illegal all over the world, but dollars don't smell ...
              1. Lawyer Offline
                Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 06: 54
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                Yes, I would not mind Saddam, calm down! To me personally, the Kurds are also not relatives, all sorts of Yezidis ... I say that they hit him in the head when he also tried to squeeze out cheto from neighboring Kuwait.
                Although, as I understand it, does this seem normal and worthy to you? :))
                And then these good Iraqis began to play against each other, using non-parliamentary methods, they pounded on three million, maybe even more. Because - I want to emphasize once again - there are nations that are capable of self-organizing into Society and creating an effective State even in lack of freedom, and there are nations that even need Freedom in Truvor so as not to cut each other.
                I will not give examples, you can see for yourself.
                I would even say - not nations, but even ethnic groups. Well, groups of kindred nations. This will be more accurate. Although we have here near the palais - so those also have the same trouble. Sometimes I even think if they are not Slavs?
                Here you yourself have a look at the history of the Slavic peoples.
                1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                  Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 1 August 2020 15: 05
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                  Quote: Lawyer
                  I say that they hit him in the head when he also tried to squeeze out cheto from neighboring Kuwait

                  Well, you are calm about the fact that the Americans squeezed the Panama Canal, first from Colombia, destroying a huge country, then from the Panamanians, destroying 4 residential quarters in the capital of Panama. Out of Guantanamo, the rent has not been paid since 1961, and in 2001 the XNUMX-year lease expired altogether. Diego Garcia was wrested from Mauritius. The atoll was rented from Britain during World War II, but they forgot to release it, even the UN court did not order them. They wrestled oil and archaeological values ​​from Iraq. "American soldiers did not shed blood for the Russians to pump oil!" - This is Bush to squeeze Lukoil's property into his own pocket (through friends in Evron).
                  Can you officially be indignant at the American arbitrariness and demand that the property be returned to its rightful owners? No, because you understand that Guantanamo squatters have free cameras in abundance. And the buckets of urine are full, there will be where to rinse your head.
                  1. Lawyer Offline
                    Lawyer (Olaf) 2 August 2020 06: 36
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                    Yes, they would write simply - But you have blacks hanging! Otherwise, it looks like you acknowledge the facts of the alienation by you and your friend by the gallows.
                    Or you can also write that Kuwait himself invited Saddamka at a national referendum.
              2. Lawyer Offline
                Lawyer (Olaf) 2 August 2020 06: 32
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                Yes, these Yankees scoundrels. They even planted drugs at your embassy. And before that everyone tried to transport containers to the Lomonosov port.
                1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                  Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 2 August 2020 10: 47
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                  Quote: Lawyer
                  They even planted drugs at your embassy.

                  Well, about drugs - I don't know, but Russian diplomatic property was squeezed out - in San Francisco and New York. Now here are the Chinese in Seattle. The diplomats were evicted and quickly moved into the CIA departments.
                  What to stand on ceremony with the Russian- and Sino-Indians ...
            2. 123 Offline
              123 (123) 31 July 2020 19: 17
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              But the million killed by the Shuravi soldiers of Afghans was also enough for many to go to NATO. So that..
              Moreover, Iraq was bombed aggressive, starting a war, killing its own Kurds - and Afghanistan was destroyed peaceful and friendly. It is not the fault of the States that people in Iraq are also incapable of creating their own effective self-government.
              They also want Truvor and Sineus.

              For some reason, with these words, I remembered Ukraine ...

              But could you give me an example of at least one country that became successful after the arrival of the Russians?
              Not, just not Buryatia. Name someone else.

              It was like this until 2014 ... then the Maidan happened. winked
              1. Lawyer Offline
                Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 06: 26
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                Well, if about Ukraine, then I would advise you to compare the dates of the creation of the first university in Russia and in Ukraine, this time.
                In Ukraine, BEFORE the arrival of the Russians, there were cities governed by Magdeburg law, these are two.
                So if not Russians came to Ukraine in the 18th century, there would be no need for Maidan today.
                Or are you leading history from 1917?
                1. 123 Offline
                  123 (123) 1 August 2020 08: 01
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                  Well, if about Ukraine, then I would advise you to compare the dates of the creation of the first university in Russia and in Ukraine, this time.

                  You can compare. laughing

                  Ivan Franko National University of Lviv. On January 20, 1661, by the decree of the Polish king Jan II Casimir, the Jesuit college in Lvov was given "the status of an academy and the title of a university" with the right to teach all disciplines and confer academic degrees

                  If not for Stalin, he would have remained in Poland.
                  Is there some more...

                  Kharkiv National University Vasily Karazin. The university was founded on January 17, 1805.

                  If not for Lenin, he would have remained in Russia. Oh, and rightly so, the communists were banned from you, I do not approve of such gifts either.

                  In Ukraine, BEFORE the arrival of the Russians, there were cities governed by Magdeburg law, these are two.

                  Actually, there are more such cities, you even look at the damned Wikipedia, there in black and white ...

                  Chronology of obtaining Magdeburg rights by the cities of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Hungary.

                  Again Stalin messed up. sad

                  So if not Russians came to Ukraine in the 18th century, there would be no need for Maidan today.

                  Naturally, there would be no need, the wise sultan and his janissaries would not allow such an outrage. And you would now go to namaz in a magnificent mosque. winked

                  Or are you leading history from 1917?

                  I guess it all started a little earlier than 1917, about 7425 years ago.
                  1. Lawyer Offline
                    Lawyer (Olaf) 1 August 2020 10: 02
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                    Well, let's point by point.
                    Lviv University is already Ukrainian, regardless of who then owned this city - the possession of the Republic of Ingushetia in Warsaw at a certain time does not make Warsaw a Russian city.
                    The same applies to Kharkov, actually ... this is ONCE.
                    There were probably more than two cities with self-government, but in my text the word TWO sounds together with the word, it's TWO.
                    Be more attentive to the texts, although, to be honest, I don't think that the history of the Slavs should be studied anywhere else, except in autochthonous universities.
                    I'm not really interested, to be honest.
                    I have enough of the fact that the Russian invasion stopped history wherever they came.
                    About the wise sultan, I dare to remind you that Vienna was once besieged by him, but today the crowns do not, for the most part, go to the mosque.
                    In Ukraine, during the time of the Sultan, the Turks broke off their teeth on the Polish chain of fortresses. So it's not a fact that today I would go to a mosque, and not to a church or synagogue.
                    Now you will generally understand the name Poland, from what it arose. I completely agree with you about the beginning of time.
                    In the Russian editions of the Old Testament, the Russians are inscribed as a separate paragraph, or they go in Noah's carriage in words - And he took all the animals in pairs?
                    Specify pliz.
                    1. 123 Offline
                      123 (123) 1 August 2020 11: 05
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                      Well, let's point by point.
                      Lviv University is already Ukrainian, regardless of who then owned this city - the possession of the Republic of Ingushetia in Warsaw at a certain time does not make Warsaw a Russian city.
                      The same applies to Kharkov, actually ... this is ONCE.

                      Very correct remark. good The presence of these cities in Ukraine does not make them Ukrainian cities, especially if it is temporary. Moreover, this statement is also true for universities.

                      There were maybe not two cities with self-government, but in my text the word TWO sounds together with the word, it is TWO.

                      If there was something other than nonsense in your text, perhaps I would have read more carefully, for example, the names of cities. smile

                      Be more attentive to the texts, although, to be honest, I don't think that the history of the Slavs should be studied anywhere else, except in autochthonous universities.
                      I'm not really interested, to be honest.

                      To be honest, you, apparently, are not attentive to anything, if only to the epilation of your own tailbone.

                      I have enough of the fact that the Russian invasion stopped history wherever they came.

                      Sometimes the story deserves it, one "Austrian artist" was probably no less dissatisfied with this than you. laughing You have a common sadness. yes

                      About the wise sultan, I dare to remind you that Vienna was once besieged by him, but today the crowns do not, for the most part, go to the mosque.
                      In Ukraine, during the time of the Sultan, the Turks broke off their teeth on the Polish chain of fortresses.

                      Does it not occur to you that this is why they do not walk, that they "broke off their teeth"? I would like to draw your attention to the fact that adobe huts are not an equivalent replacement for fortress walls, they do not save so well from Tatar raids and Turkish janissaries are stopped much worse.
                      I am afraid that if the Russian soldier had not evicted the Sultan's subjects to the southern shores, there would be much more mosques in Vienna.

                      So, it's not a fact that today I would go to a mosque, and not to a church or synagogue.

                      Indeed, not a fact yes perhaps you would not go anywhere at all, it is difficult to go somewhere if you are not there.

                      Now you will generally understand the name Poland, from what it arose.

                      What for? We talked about Ukraine.

                      In the Russian editions of the Old Testament, the Russians are inscribed as a separate paragraph, or they go in Noah's carriage in words - And he took all the animals in pairs?
                      Specify pliz.

                      What can I say to that. what Your departure is a wonderful event for Ukraine, it is the best thing that you could do for the country. laughing Fertilize red earth for bananas. Let Bibi endure everything, he has no way out. I sympathize with him. winked
                      As for the covenant, I would love to look at the original source, not the translation. I have some doubts ..... I suspect that some pages with details have been deleted by someone with access to the "folio" .... The phrase "Abraham gave birth to Isaac" raises some questions, how did the men themselves deal? And how is this combined with the fact that in some peoples nationality is determined by the mother?
                      Can you clarify the situation? winked
        2. 123 Offline
          123 (123) 31 July 2020 19: 11
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          This is just as true the other way around. For many years in Russia, there has been an incessant anti-Western hysteria.

          Anti-Western hysteria? Are you joking? It's just that things are called by their proper names.

          They are certainly no less intimidated. If not more. One blow to the territory of Russia, even to the dense taiga, is enough - and the entire population will die out from a heart attack.

          I doubt it. Hammer into the search "map of nuclear explosions of the USSR". winked
          Nobody noticed the Tunguska meteorite at all. laughing
          1. Natan bruk Offline
            Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 31 July 2020 19: 20
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            And in the West they think that they call things by their proper names. Each has its own truth. As for the explosions, these were OWN nuclear explosions, which, moreover, were not reported to the population. And the Tunguska meteorite fell in the deep taiga at a time when there was no Internet or television.
            1. 123 Offline
              123 (123) 31 July 2020 20: 21
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              And in the West they think that they call things by their proper names

              Each has its own truth. To find out who is closer to the truth, you will have to compare who and what writes on some specific occasion, or question, there is no other way. Want to try, you can compare, choose a theme. yes

              As for the explosions, these were OWN nuclear explosions, which, moreover, were not reported to the population.

              They knew about them even without any Internet, I saw a yellow badge at the site of one such explosion, not far from us .... I spoke to people. They were calm, many locals know, information about heart attacks is not confirmed. Apparently, the old school, we all know from childhood why a machine gun in a nuclear explosion should be placed under oneself. laughing
              1. Natan bruk Offline
                Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 31 July 2020 21: 45
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                Are you laughing? They only knew that the locals, and most importantly, it was not a war, but tests of their own weapons. When the Americans tested their weapons in Nevada, no heart attacks were observed there either.
                1. 123 Offline
                  123 (123) 31 July 2020 21: 51
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                  Are you laughing

                  Partly yes. laughing You don't think this is serious about the machine, do you?

                  They only knew that the locals, and most importantly, it was not a war, but tests of their own weapons.

                  In the USSR, this was treated too lightly, which, by the way, I do not approve of. "Curious" ideas appeared, like how to quickly dig a huge foundation pit. winked You shouldn't think that everyone is intimidated here. Moreover, what is nuclear weapons and what are the consequences of its use, people imagine. What's the point in running away after an explosion? You just get tired.
                  1. Natan bruk Offline
                    Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 31 July 2020 23: 45
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                    Well, you shouldn't consider the Americans so intimidated either. As I wrote above, I visited my relatives there, and news about Russia is not at all in the first place there, and there is no terrible paranoia there either.
                    1. 123 Offline
                      123 (123) 1 August 2020 07: 13
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                      Well, you shouldn't consider the Americans so intimidated either. As I wrote above, I visited my relatives there, and news about Russia is not at all in the first place there, and there is no terrible paranoia there either.

                      This conclusion is made, rather, by the media. The funny thing is, I didn't claim they were all intimidated. smile
                      1. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 August 2020 03: 45
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                        What media? Russian? Maybe. In the American media, topics about Russia are not in the first place. Well, what about the fact that you did not claim that Americans are intimidated - did you write about their heart attacks?
                      2. 123 Offline
                        123 (123) 2 August 2020 03: 56
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                        What media? Russian?

                        Not only. They always express their concerns, on any occasion.

                        Maybe. In the American media, topics about Russia are not in the first place at all.

                        It may very well be. Rather, what is connected with Russia comes into view. And what do they have in 1st place, in your opinion?

                        Well, what about the fact that you did not claim that Americans are intimidated - did you write about their heart attacks?

                        I don’t remember something like that. what Maybe you confused me with someone? I wrote how we treat this.
                      3. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 2 August 2020 17: 21
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                        Well, Lavrov and his "talking head" are more concerned. And in the first place the Americans have their own affairs, and then everything else .. Yes, and I do not confuse you with anyone. Reread your first posts about the Nevada bomb and American heart attacks.
                      4. 123 Offline
                        123 (123) 2 August 2020 18: 15
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                        Well, Lavrov and his "talking head" are more concerned. And in first place, Americans have their own affairs, and then everything else ..

                        Concerns to express, Lavrov has such a job, Pompeo is no less worried about every occasion, and their talking heads are doing about the same thing.

                        Yes, and I am not confusing you with anyone. Reread your first posts about the Nevada bomb and American heart attacks.

                        You know, I reviewed it, I didn’t find it, I don’t understand what I’m talking about. request If it's not difficult, copy the quote.
  • Lawyer Offline
    Lawyer (Olaf) 31 July 2020 05: 36
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    The Japanese used to think so too.
  • Rum rum Offline
    Rum rum (Rum rum) 30 July 2020 13: 09
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    The author, I, of course, apologize, but when you write about weapons, take the trouble to find out what kind of weapon is intended for what, how and in what conditions it is used, and of course the performance characteristics.
    What does the Avangard complex have to do with the destruction of the AUG?
    1. Volkonsky Offline
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 July 2020 13: 23
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      Accepted, ATP.

      https://proza.ru/2018/03/26/2009

      - I already wrote about this, part 4. It seems that in this case you are right, heavy ballistic missiles on AUG should not be used from the hand when there are Daggers.
      1. Volkonsky Offline
        Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 July 2020 14: 28
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        Although it is purely theoretically possible, during the Second World War there were successful cases of the use of anti-aircraft guns and even twin Maxim tanks (the first during the defense of Moscow).
        1. Rum rum Offline
          Rum rum (Rum rum) 30 July 2020 15: 16
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          No impossible.
          Any unauthorized takeoff of a ballistic missile triggers a nuclear exchange. This is what makes amerovskie "low power" missiles dangerous - it is not written on them, and the answer will be in full.
        2. 2534 Offline
          2534 30 July 2020 19: 51
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          Quote: Volkonsky
          even Sparok Maxim on tanks

          About "Sparky Maximov on tanks" :) please, in more detail;) "preferably with proofs" (links)
          wait, sir;)
          1. Volkonsky Offline
            Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 July 2020 21: 33
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            So there were no questions about antiaircraft guns? Already good! No proof required? It feels like he hit the military expert, now he thinks, let's morning our nose for this upstart Volkonsky, well, please ... as for the use of Maxim machine guns from closed positions on German tanks, this is what my comrade Colonel of the General Staff of the Russian Army writes about this ( retired) Sergey Drozdov -

            https://proza.ru/2014/04/23/494

            I draw your attention to the fact that the combat mission was completed, the tanks were stopped, how Mr. Shumilin achieved this, Sergei says.
            1. 2534 Offline
              2534 30 July 2020 23: 51
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              Quote: Volkonsky
              So there were no questions about antiaircraft guns?

              My clarity on them was class so with 2;)
              high school :)

              Quote: Volkonsky
              I draw your attention to the fact that the combat mission was completed, the tanks stopped, as was achieved by Mr. Shumilin

              Well, we read:

              «Maxim "in battle lacked remote control fire for shooting from straight and closed positions. If during the war we had remote control on the Maximsthen we would not let the Germans raise their heads.

              belay DUM during WWII (WWII)?!?!? "Purely for reference", we do not have ANY decent THINK until now! And everything that is has serious flaws ...

              At every opportunity, Shumilin organized the fire of his machine guns from closed positions, and each time this technique was unexpected for the enemy and caused great damage to the Nazis.

              In short, it's FANTASY.
              see dispersion at such distances and angles ...

              Before the commander companies the question became HOW to do this, having only machine guns and rifles in service ?! As a "means of strengthening" the command allocated him ONE 45 mm anti-tank gun,

              Actually, for the company, the reinforcement of 45mm anti-tank rifles for 1942. this is pretty cool, but Shumilov ordered this increase absolutely stupidly.

              Bullets from the ground, from under the tank and from the tracks will ricochet, direct or dagger fire can cut off infantry from tanks

              fool What nafig "ricochet" from the PANEL fire?! ??

              the company commander organized a system of fire from "Maxims" from closed positions, from the opposite slope of the hill.

              Those. threw ammunition into the "milk".

              Ahead, covering with his whopper, he moved heavy German tank.

              "Tiger" in the summer of 1942?

              However, Shumilin was well aware that the Germans should not be allowed to come to their senses and try to seize the initiative in this battle. He makes a new decision:
              “We need to try to smoke the Germans out of the two front tanks. It's easy to do. I gave the command to lower the scope. The bullets should now go under the belly of the front tank. They will hit the cobblestones of the road and ricochet at the feet.

              PS I have only one question, do you really not understand that this grandfather did not "write a memoir", but rather "fantasies on a theme"?
              1. Volkonsky Offline
                Volkonsky (Vladimir) 31 July 2020 00: 12
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                Max, you are a naval officer, and Sergei Colonel of the General Staff of the RF Ground Forces -

                https://proza.ru/avtor/plot204

                - he knows better. Today I wrote to him: "Good afternoon, Vladimir! Glad to see you again. Tomorrow morning I am leaving to my grandchildren on Seliger for 3 days, so I will be without a network. I will come - I will definitely read all your latest works. About how" Vanka - company ", with the fire of" Maximov "from a closed position, in 1942, more than a day held Nazi tanks and infantry, it is described here:

                http://proza.ru/2014/04/23/494

                Best regards, Sergey.

                He will come, argue with him, you asked for proofs, I gave.
                1. 2534 Offline
                  2534 31 July 2020 00: 20
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                  Quote: Volkonsky
                  he knows better

                  I will disappoint you. In "recent years" I was engaged not only in the "land theme", but also in air defense (and the latter was originally at the request of one Chief Designer, moreover from the USSR)

                  Quote: Volkonsky
                  Will come, argue with him

                  Sorry, but I don't like FANTASY.
                  And the fact that ACHINEA is written in the text is clear to any technically competent and educated reader. laughing
              2. Volkonsky Offline
                Volkonsky (Vladimir) 31 July 2020 00: 43
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                Quote: 2534
                "Tiger" in the summer of 1942?

                Tiger I - heavy tank; production: from mid-1942 to mid-1944 (1356 cars).
                For the first time, Tiger tanks took part in hostilities on August 29, 1942 at the Mga station near Leningrad, and began to be massively used during the capture of Kharkov in February - March 1943. Used by the Wehrmacht and SS troops until the end of World War II.

                What is the contradiction?
                1. 2534 Offline
                  2534 31 July 2020 01: 05
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                  Quote: Volkonsky
                  What is the contradiction?

                  IN YOUR changing shoes. For no "heavy tanks" on Sov-Germ. the front in the summer WAS NOT, the only (!) episode - the last days of August at Mga.
                  ALL.
              3. Rum rum Offline
                Rum rum (Rum rum) 31 July 2020 14: 52
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                Sorry about the remote control. During the Second World War, remotely controlled tanks were tested, the Germans had a self-propelled mine, a guided bomb.
                I see no problem to set the machine gun to fire on the sector with minimal adjustments from the side (commands: right, left, top, bottom, they could have done already then).
                It is even possible on the principle of a sprinkler (crank on the bed, and an electric trigger) and let it water the sector on command.
                1. 2534 Offline
                  2534 31 July 2020 15: 16
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                  Quote: Rum Rum
                  It is even possible on the principle of a sprinkler (crank on the bed, and an electric trigger) and let it water the sector on command.

                  fool Along the way, YOU are overworked in the garden with watering. lol
                  1. Rum rum Offline
                    Rum rum (Rum rum) 31 July 2020 21: 54
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                    And what do you think the flank machine-gun pillbox is doing? How are bunkers on the "Mannerheim Line" arranged, you know? There is not much room for machine gun creativity, well, a very narrow sector of fire.
        3. Lawyer Offline
          Lawyer (Olaf) 31 July 2020 05: 39
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          Spark Maximov on a tank is no better than from a militia's shotgun.
          And the Germans were the first to use anti-aircraft guns against tanks near Arras, when attacking the French B1.
        4. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 4 August 2020 20: 49
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          Good comparison, tank and AUG.
          Competent ......
      2. 2534 Offline
        2534 30 July 2020 19: 28
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        Quote: Volkonsky
        according to AUG, use not from hand when there are Daggers.

        I will upset YOU also about the "Daggers" - they are also "not handy" to apply them in AUG due to the absolutely "scanty" characteristics of the GOS.
        1. 123 Offline
          123 (123) 31 July 2020 19: 41
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          I will upset YOU also about the "Daggers" - they are also "not handy" to apply them in AUG due to the absolutely "scanty" characteristics of the GOS.

          I have doubts ..... How do you know the characteristics of the seeker "Dagger"?

          Moreover, it is a class of high-precision weapons, which has a multifunctional warhead that allows you to work on both stationary and moving targets. In particular, aircraft carriers and ships of cruiser class, destroyer, frigate are potential targets for these weapons.

          http://archive.redstar.ru/index.php/component/k2/item/36438-v-obojme-sarmat-kinzhal-avangard

          Deputy Defense Minister Yuri BORISOV, interview with Krasnaya Zvezda. Is he exaggerating?
          In addition, in the comment below you have everything written, including links, about torpedoes, have they removed some of the comments, or are you still talking about missiles?
          1. 2534 Offline
            2534 2 August 2020 20: 08
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            Quote: 123
            How do you know the characteristics of the "Dagger" seeker?

            Physics is all right with me. wink And the characteristics required for the defeat of the AUG are more than known to me.

            In particular, aircraft carriers and ships of the cruiser, destroyer, and frigate class are potential targets for this weapon.

            At anchor and without electronic warfare - no problems in real combat conditions - sorry, only as an aid.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. 2534 Offline
        2534 30 July 2020 19: 48
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        The Navy's most embarrassing problem.

        https://mina030.livejournal.com/6080.html

        https://mina030.livejournal.com/26418.html

        https://mina030.livejournal.com/24483.html

        On the presence of critical technical and design flaws in SSBNs of project 955, 955A and the inadmissibility of the RF Ministry of Defense (Navy) to accept the lead ship of project 955A "Prince Vladimir" (order serial number 204) without carrying out the necessary tests and eliminating the deficiencies.

        According to media reports, the head SSBN of project 955A, "Prince Vladimir" is at the final exit of State tests, allegedly on 25.05.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX. it is planned to sign the State Test Act and raise the naval flag.
        Based on the official materials of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation from the Army 2015 forum, to solve the problems of anti-torpedo protection (PTZ), the Modul-D and Lasta complexes were installed.
        1. ... The Module-D complex is not just outdated, three generations of torpedo weapons have changed since the formation of its ideology, and today it’s simply not necessary to talk about its “effectiveness”!
        Note: in spite of the supposedly “completion of testing of products of the Modul-D complex, it can be confidently stated that not a single one of them was used against modern types of torpedoes (Physic-1, Package, Ichthyosaurus), all were exclusively against long-obsolete torpedoes (about the inadmissibility of which I reported to the corresponding persons of the Navy back in August 2013). The ROC "Module-D" was "completed" actually due to notorious forgeries with tests, conducting them under obviously simplified conditions and against old types of torpedoes (USET-80).
        2. The most critical is Lasta. Taking into account the extremely low "efficiency" (in quotes) of the "Modul-D" complex, the adoption of the "Knyaz Vladimir" SSBN without the "Lasta" anti-torpedoes is unacceptable.
        All the terms for the creation of this complex by JSC "State Scientific and Production Enterprise" Region "were disrupted, the equipment of order 160 (AICR" Severodvinsk ") was disrupted, which was criminally adopted by the Navy virtually defenseless from enemy torpedoes. The real reasons for our problems with anti-torpedoes on submarines (and ways to solve them), I have repeatedly reported to the officials of the Navy. The main thing is ... our submarines (and surface ships) of almost all projects (except, perhaps, 636). This drawback calls into question the combat effectiveness of all new ships and is systemic, because normative documents are presented acc. strict requirements for “separate instrument racks” and assemblies, despite the fact that these requirements are actually “completely” applied to the ship itself, or they are fulfilled fictitiously (for example, along the “safe radius”).
        .
    2. Volkonsky Offline
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 July 2020 22: 31
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      Captri Max Klimov and you are one person? I cannot compete with him in the competence of the Navy, I take off my hat to his knowledge and a serious analytical approach to reviewing cases in the domestic Navy. It's nice that he wandered from VO to our topboard. Regarding the Poseidons, a small remark, according to my information, they go not in 8, but in 6 on the nuclear submarine, in total, not 32, but 24 products are planned (based on the planned 4 nuclear submarines of the product). The inconsistency in the number came from us, started TASS, the foreigners picked up, now, it seems, the figure of 24 products is no longer discussed. On the problems of the fleet, I wrote earlier, the text was posted on the VO (in 6 parts), here on Prose it is given in full -

      https://proza.ru/2018/11/30/1427

      You can be curious if interested. Our problems are not limited to this, alas and ah! I wrote only about the problems associated with the construction of new surface ships. I wrote about Kuzya separately, and then about the fire, and the sunken PD-50, I was forbidden to write. My friends from Proza were not so critical of me, although among them are two colonels of the General Staff of the Russian Army (retired) Drozdov and Kozhemyako and the commander of the SSBN K-223 (also retired) Kaperang Khraptovich (Albert is a well-known person in the Navy, you are probably his , you know, burned at his strategist, got out of this with honor, he wrote about the problems of our Navy, here is my text about the death of K-141

      - https://proza.ru/2019/08/29/75

      - inside the link to his texts). Here about the fire on the AS-31 -

      https://proza.ru/2019/07/11/1478

      As Khraptovich said, the personal factor played its role again.
      1. 2534 Offline
        2534 30 July 2020 23: 26
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        Quote: Volkonsky
        Khraptovich

        I didn’t just “know” him, but PUBLICLY SMOOTHED (the proofs are saved) in discussions on Avtonomka (which Viktorov then cowardly rubbed), and SMOOTHED - on HIS hardware (which he didn’t know !!!) 671V and 667BDR projects ....
        After that, I am no longer surprised by the serious accident of KRO with him (about her, a noble swearing woman was on the website of Novaya Gazeta between Khraptovich and Zhandarov, and in this case Zhandarov was right, who just smeared Khraptovich there)
        1. 2534 Offline
          2534 31 July 2020 00: 00
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          Quote: Volkonsky
          As said Khraptovich

          By the way, this about him was written.

          Here is indicative of the discussion that unfolded in the discussion of "some memoirs of retired submarine commanders of the Navy" on the Avtonomka website (later, due to the acuteness of the discussion, this was deleted by the site owner, but saved in a copy). The bottom line is that The "polite and correct" ex-commander (nuclear submarines of projects 671V and 667BDR) said that we have "not so" (and even wrote about the lag in low noise in the Central Committee of the CPSU), while personally doing nothing to use the existing he has opportunities. During the discussion, he found out extremely poor knowledge of the characteristics and capabilities of his hydroacoustics and weapons (for example, active GAS and a torpedo telecontrol complex), which he simply did not use, because allegedly "it did not work."
          The objections that "for some reason" all this (active means of search, telecontrol) worked successfully with other commanders of the 671B project of the same division and they rigidly and skillfully "put in place" the US Navy submarines, followed already "personal attacks" against these commanders (in particular, A. V. Makarenko).

          Later the aforementioned commander ("opponent Makarenko") was transferred from a multipurpose nuclear submarine (project 671V) to a "strategist" (project 667BDR), and against his will ... With a high probability, by doing so, the 45th division of multipurpose submarines simply got rid of the "passive" commander, however, alas, the SSBN unit received it, with all the ensuing consequences in case of war.

          https://topwar.ru/173104-na-ostrie-podvodnogo-protivostojanija-holodnaja-vojna-podplava.html

          You can tell him so.
    3. Lawyer Offline
      Lawyer (Olaf) 31 July 2020 05: 42
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      If I were the author, I would delete my article after your comment.
      Sometimes it is surprising that people who do not know much need to tell the world about their thoughts and dreams.
      1. Volkonsky Offline
        Volkonsky (Vladimir) 31 July 2020 07: 17
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        You, comrade, are still in your place, and I am in mine, and I myself will figure out what to do! And while you are sitting in your place, then think with your head on whose mill is pouring water from Comrade. captain 3rd rank? It turns out that Putin just heals everyone's brains, scaring these unafraid idiots with our toys, explaining to them that they should settle down with their claims. Claims can only be dictated from a position of strength, and Putin demonstrates whose side this strength is on. And here comes Comrade. captain of the 3rd rank, all in white, and says: "Gentlemen, imperialists, do not believe them! This is all bullshit! I swear by my mother! They have nothing! The Darkest One is bluffing!" Even if he is right (and he is right - we have a lot of problems, but we are solving them), why tell our enemies about it? And, mind you, I'm with Comrade. As a military expert, he spoke extremely politely, without arrivals, respecting his knowledge and competence, respecting his work in the military. And how does he behave when he climbs into our sandbox? I understand that for him there are no authorities, for him that the Colonel of the General Staff is the storyteller Mazai, that the commander of the nuclear submarine strategist is a grandfather who has gone out of his mind, whom he rinses both in the tail and in the mane (and grandfather burned on his cruiser deep under water! and saved him !!). And you ask our D * Artanyan which cruiser he commanded. Judging by the shoulder straps - none (for me it is not important, but for people in the state service it does).
        1. 2534 Offline
          2534 31 July 2020 08: 25
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          As for "cap. 3", unlike YOU, he understands too well that we DO NOT HAVE TO FIGHT, and we simply CANNOT BE WEAK, and STRONG SHOULD BE ACTUALLY (and not "cheap squealing" of the media and magazines with a responsibility "), for example -" flogging "YZvestiy:

          1. I consider the work of historians, mass media, and mass media of military-technical orientation VERY IMPORTANT. The country and society really need this. And many who come to this forum are really doing a big and necessary job.
          2. But only if they are really historians, the media, and not a "yellow puddle", to which YOU belong. At one time (early 2014) very closely (and with a good "catch") monitored 404SMI and resources, and after that I wanted to wash my hands and take a shower, and crazy thoughts "wandered" - "not contagious" :) are such races and trash. I will only note that even in that tough situation there were those who tried to behave with dignity.
          3. News is not the media, it is a trash heap. It's not even propaganda - "The lies and lies in propaganda, agitation and the press discredit party political work, the naval press and do exceptional harm to the cause of the Bolshevik education of the masses." From the directive of the Deputy Commissar of the Navy of the USSR and the Chief of the Main Political Directorate of the Navy, Army Commissioner 2, rank IV Rogova.
          News is simply a discrediting of decent journalism. The essence of all your opuses is Jump! Another jump !!! Jump higher !!! The information in it is not even zero, but a negative value. YOU, in principle, are not interested in information as such, only serial kitsch and trash. Read materials from the public procurement website? What for? Now - dude and done
          - "Ystochik in the Main ShtYba" "reported". Conduct a normal interview? Why - if everything in Izvestia is twisted, - for "yellowish force".
          PS I hope YOU understood everything, and YOU chose your "path" yourself. In short, the "notorious doctor" says EVERYTHING about YOU like that ...

          https://www.vif2ne.org/nvk/forum/0/arhprint/2860345

          and further

          https://www.vif2ne.org/nvk/forum/0/archive/2860/2860352.htm

          Quote: Volkonsky
          It turns out that Putin just heals everyone's brains, scaring these unafraid idiots with our toys, explaining to them that they should settle down with their claims.

          It turns out that LIE to Putin himself, and this is a FACT.

          Quote: Volkonsky
          Even if he is right (and he is right - we have a lot of problems, but we are solving them), why tell our enemies about it?

          Then, that the enemies KNOW PERFECTLY about them. And we have a "BOLT SCORED" for their solution.
          And they blatantly lie to the Supreme Command and to the society "all is well, beautiful marquise" (see the report on 204).

          Quote: Volkonsky
          And, mind you, I'm with Comrade. as a military officer spoke extremely politely, without arrivals

          Respect is a must.
          I do not have a single "hacky" article, not a single printed or spoken aloud as if I am not ashamed.
          Why "respect" YOU? For YOUR illiterate ACHINA? For YOUR "trampoline tearing"?
          YOU with your OPUS, YOURSELF, publicly "took off your pants"


          Quote: Volkonsky
          to him that the colonel of the General Staff is the storyteller Mazai

          - rather, Munchausen. lol So it will be more EXACTLY. wink Moreover, he himself wrote to AKHINAI in his texts, and as for "the General Staff", the current "major specialist in the resettlement of Tajiks in basements" to-OTmiral Zhandarov, the author of simply epic "pearls" wassat was a senior lecturer at VA GSh. belay

          Quote: Volkonsky
          the commander of an atomic strategic submarine is a grandfather who is out of his mind, which he rinses both in the tail and in the mane

          No, Khraptovich did not survive from his mind, but he has big problems with his CONSCIENCE, as well as knowledge of weapons (including his own) and tactics ... - more precisely, WILD IGNORANCE.

          Quote: Volkonsky
          and grandfather burned on his cruiser deep under water! and saved him !!

          Volkonsky, stop BREAKING! Even in his crafty opus, Khraptovich clearly wrote that the matter was on the surface.

          https://mina030.livejournal.com/16792.html
          1. Volkonsky Offline
            Volkonsky (Vladimir) 31 July 2020 16: 14
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            Excuse me, I haven't read Khraptovich for a long time, it burned, but it burned on the surface. Which, of course, immediately belittles his merits. For me, a fire on a ship is a nightmare! Nightmare in a confined space. If Khraptovich came out of him - honor and glory to him, let's give him his due, why pour slops ?! As for the Project 949A Antey SSGN K-150 "Tomsk" - a ship of the 1st rank, among the commanders are all caprangs from Antipin to Sharypov (only 8 people), not a single captri among them, which is natural. Without diminishing your merits, steering and commanding a ship is not the same thing. Although it doesn't matter to me, even the sailor on duty is a hero to me. I understand that you served on this missile cruiser, commanded a warhead, and that is enough for me, although I wonder which one (I suspect that it is BCH-3). I did not give Khraptovich anything (if you wish, write to him yourself), but Drozdov answered. I'll copy his answer here:

            Vladimir, good morning!
            I skimmed through the comments of this Tier 3 captain. An ordinary "ekperd" who knows everything and about everything and considers himself entitled to give teachings and arrogant assessments to everyone.
            For example, he brazenly calls Captain Shumilin (who, unlike him, fought on the front lines from the summer of 1941 to 1944) "grandfather", who writes "fantasy".
            For the information of this "ekperd": Shumilin was VERY seriously wounded and the rest of his life was ill and spent in hospitals. He had an excellent memory and for many years "on the table" wrote his front-line memoirs.
            It was the work of his life, and unlike the fraudulent "experts", he did not compose any "fantasy".
            Now about the tank, about which the third rank "ekperd" so mockingly writes. If he had the intelligence to read Shumilin's book, he would have realized that he did not mean the Tiger, but the T-IV tank, which was produced from 1938 to 1945 (in 10 different modifications).
            For our front-line soldiers (and not the current highly intelligent "ekperds"), he THEN was (and was considered by them) a "heavy" tank, as Shumilin wrote.
            Equally "clever" and comments of "ekperda" about the use of "Maxims" from closed positions.
            Unlike him, Shumilin was a professional machine gunner who graduated from the famous Moscow Combined Arms School, where they were taught how to organize such a fire and Shumilin used this at the front.
            There is NO sense to try to argue with such "experts", they "know everything" and do not accept any arguments.
            Best regards to you, Sergey.

            I think this topic is closed? However, I am not belittling your merits. I believe you are doing a useful job. Don't just look down on others. In principle, I wrote about this to Sergey:

            Hello, Sergey! By the way, I thought that he called the German Panzerwaffe-4 heavy medium tank (PzKpfw IV - medium tank; production: 1937-1945 (8686 vehicles); operation: 1939-1945). But, what could I argue with him? He sprinkles such terms there. By the way, I saw his letter to the Minister of Defense, General Shoigu, where he criticizes something and proposes. Captri, apparently, resigned with a sense of unfulfilled duty, that he is capable of more, and not appreciated, now he is listed as an expert on all issues and types of weapons. He is not a stupid person, literate in everything, I just dislike this arrogance, such a snobbery - what do you civilians understand in our military matters, insects, and we are high-flying birds. Although these birds have such a mess in their nesting places that Mama do not worry! No Borisov Yuri Ivanovich will rake! Although Captri tries to do it, which is also worthy of respect.
            1. 2534 Offline
              2534 2 August 2020 20: 44
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              Quote: Volkonsky
              For me, a fire on a ship is a nightmare! Nightmare in a confined space. If Khraptovich got out of it

              - and for me - a fire is a "jamb" of the crew! Never burned - simply because all the "prerequisites" for this "choked in the bud" by trained personnel.

              I skimmed through the comments of this Tier 3 captain. An ordinary "ekperd" who knows everything and about everything and considers himself entitled to give teachings and arrogant assessments to everyone.

              - in fact, having written in himself STUPIDITY, Drozdov himself "signed" as "Yksperd". lol

              For the information of this "ekperd": Shumilin was VERY seriously wounded and the rest of his life was ill and spent in hospitals. He had an excellent memory and for many years "on the table" wrote his front-line memoirs. It was the work of his life, and unlike the fraudulent "experts", he did not compose any "fantasy".

              For the information of "Yksperd" Drozdov, my grandfather went through the entire war - from the Battle of Smolensk to Prague, and he was extremely tough about such "hunting stories" about the War. And it's one thing if a veteran "floods" (for example, see "Evgrafycha" I don't say at all, Munchausen just sobs with envy! Despite the fact that he is a really heroic man), and quite another thing if "Yksperd" is "happily broadcasting" from the "General Staff".

              Note: it is necessary to understand that shooting from machine guns closed for machine guns not only "was", but is still encountered (see "fresh" from Murza), but:
              the first is LOW EFFICIENT and requires a very high consumption of BC (which is why, according to the experience of the Second World War, we abandoned it);
              - the second - the presence of special means of data preparation and aiming (they were on the machine tools at the beginning of the war, but from the end of 41 they were massively removed, including for guns);
              third - see manuals on "maxim";)

              Specifically in this episode, mounted shooting could have been, but its "hunting consequences" are definitely "hunting details".
              If "Yksperd" from "General Staff" Drozdov does not understand this, then he has taken off his pants by himself. "To debate" with similar "clowns" that "throw beads" ... sorry, but I have no medical education for this.

              Quote: Volkonsky
              I think this topic is closed?

              For YOU, it did not "open up".

              Quote: Volkonsky
              I believe that you are doing a useful job

              And I believe that YOU are engaged in stupid and harmful to society GRAPHOMENY.
              1. Volkonsky Offline
                Volkonsky (Vladimir) 2 August 2020 20: 52
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                I don’t care what you think of me - I don’t think about you at all!

                Coco Chanel
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        2. 2534 Offline
          2534 31 July 2020 08: 51
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          Quote: Volkonsky
          And you ask our D * Artanyan which cruiser he commanded

          He independently controlled the cruiser "Tomsk", incl. with a successful (unlike Khraptovich) INDEPENDENT search for the IPL (the Commander was woken up with a report on the discovery).
          Plus cruising "Dragon", "Walrus", "Narwhal". laughing angry
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • 2534 Offline
    2534 30 July 2020 19: 32
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    As for Priboi, it’s TRESH in general, because a completely different project has been laid in Kerch! (by the way, the elaboration of the "Surf" itself is very, very good and suitable for mass serial construction, and it is a pity that this project "did not go")
    As for the UDC, any serious amphibious operation without air cover (and we have this "Kuzya smokehouse") and a powerful "floating rear" (with this in general, a popets, called the DTO of the RF Ministry of Defense (Department of Transport Support)) is AVANTURE ...
  • 2534 Offline
    2534 30 July 2020 19: 42
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    "Astute". But she did not fulfill her combat mission for the reason (you’ll laugh now!) That it was prevented from doing this by our two diesel-electric submarines Veliky Novgorod and Kolpino of project 636 Varshavyanka.

    - it's not even nonsense, it's just nonsense!
    1. Volkonsky Offline
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 July 2020 22: 41
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      Why are you doing this? Here is the link -

      https://proza.ru/2018/04/20/1565

      - read part 3. ANALYSIS. There my free translation of British editions with lyrical deviations. Read from the phrase:

      But even in this operation, an ambush awaited the small-shavens. Here is what the British newspapers "The Sunday Times" and "Daily Star" write about this, I hope you believe them? I give it not in the original translation - with my comments, but I attach links, everyone who speaks English can read it on their own and make sure that the Britons have a sadness where they did not expect.

      The only thing is that the links did not go through, the Prose program blocked them, and now I can’t find them. We'll have to take our word for it.
      1. 2534 Offline
        2534 30 July 2020 23: 22
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        Quote: Volkonsky
        the Sunday Times and the Daily Star, I hope you believe them

        Of course not. I believe common sense, my knowledge of technology and experience (including detections and contacts with IPL). An elementary question is the ratio of the speeds of diesel-electric submarines and submarines, and this newspaper TRESH goes to the trash can.
        1. Volkonsky Offline
          Volkonsky (Vladimir) 30 July 2020 23: 48
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          In vain! Two of our "admirals" took part in the pursuit. Always send to cart without reading it? I think I praised you early. From your knowledge of performance characteristics and machine guns against tanks, it is stupid to use, but you did use (I gave the link above), the combat task was solved. So, according to the British MPLATRK, it is difficult for diesel-electric submarines to compete with nuclear submarines, but they approached the task creatively, the result is objectively obvious - the submarine did not fulfill its combat mission. And why?

          The British press spoke about the tragic incident in the eastern Mediterranean, where Russian sailors insidiously prevented Her Majesty's nuclear submarine from fulfilling its combat mission. The Russians, with particular cynicism, hunted down the newest British nuclear submarine and brazenly circled nearby, preventing it from firing at Syria (apparently, prim British sailors were embarrassed to do this in front of witnesses).

          According to the British, the $ 1,3 billion Royal Navy's Estute-class nuclear submarine has been caught in a deadly game of cat and mouse by Russian diesel killer submarines. The Russians hunted the British submarine for several days, as it carried 20 Tomahawks with a range of up to 1000 miles near Syria. Moreover, the Russians used a new tactic - in fact, the victim and the hunter changed places. In nature, a cat should hunt mice, but here the Russians proved that a crowd of mice can drive any cat. Having found a British nuclear submarine on the way to their patrol zone, they alternately changing and surfacing to recharge batteries (here diesel submarines cannot compete with nuclear submarines in terms of the duration of autonomous navigation in a submerged position), passed it to each other, preventing the British submarine from breaking away. And this lasted two days, until the British asked for help from her allies - the United States. The US Navy dispatched a Boeing P-8 Poseidon anti-submarine aircraft to the area to fend off the Russians and protect the poor British submarine. But the Russians did not drive away in any way, moreover, they called for help two more frigates, a hundred and five hundred destroyers and a hundred anti-submarine aircraft (delete unnecessary). The "cat and mouse" game continued with the only difference that there were more mice. The British constantly felt their presence and after that some even turned gray in hard-to-reach places.

          As a result, the British sailors were never able to shoot back and complete the combat mission. Nick Childs of the International Institute for Strategic Studies explained that submarine commanders are trained not to fire large numbers of missiles in a salvo so as not to betray their position. Therefore, unfortunately, the British submarine never took part in the strikes against Syria. I had to replace it with 4 Tornado jet aircraft from the Akroriti base in Cyprus, which launched the missiles (here the Britons are lying - the planes would have taken part in the operation anyway, but otherwise it looks like the truth, I even have some slang associated with translation inaccuracies, saved. I think the commanders of our diesel-electric submarines will definitely be awarded!).

          For the record, what did not make it into British newspapers: The Astute-class submarines are the most modern type of nuclear-powered submarine in the British Navy. Their main purpose is not considered to be fighting enemy submarines, but strikes by the KR against ground targets, reconnaissance, landing and evacuation of special forces. During the construction, the main attention was paid to maintaining the acoustic advantage, that is, less noise and a greater detection range than a potential enemy. The nuclear submarine has a new sound-absorbing hull coating and a water jet.

          And now, who resisted these monsters (the British did not know this): according to the official data of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on April 14.04.2018, XNUMX, two new patrol boats ("Grigorovich" and "Essen") and two new submarines ("Veliky Novgorod" and "Kolpino"), which carried out the development of targets in accordance with the staffing table and instructions of the command of the permanent formation of the Russian Navy in the SAR, to which they were at that time assigned.

          For reference: And the frigates (according to our classification - patrol ships) "Admiral Grigorovich" and "Admiral Essen", and diesel-electric submarines (diesel-electric submarines) "Veliky Novgorod" and "Kolpino" are the newest receipts of the Russian Navy, designed to solve problems fleet in the Mediterranean, Central and North Atlantic, as well as in the Arctic zone. Proceeding from the fact that they are assigned to the Black Sea Fleet, their area of ​​responsibility is just the SPM and the Central Atlantic. And they, as responsible people, approached the matter with all responsibility (sorry for the tautology), for which the British paid.

          A spicy feature of this incident is the fact that the newest British Estute class submarine was opposed by the new, but already quite old Russian submarines of the 636 Varshavyanka project (the name indicates that they had to be equipped with more Warsaw Pact countries). The Warsaw Pact is already 30 years old, and there are boats in a modernized version (projects 636.3 and 636.6) serving people. The main feature of this class of boats is their noiselessness. Soviet designers were given the task to create such a diesel-electric submarine that would surpass any similar ship of a potential enemy in a duel confrontation. This should have been achieved by reducing noise, increasing the detection range of the enemy, and a higher power of weapons. The extent to which the task was successfully solved can be judged by the fact that in the NATO classification the boats of this type are given the name "Black Hole". These boats have become a real nightmare for NATO nuclear submarines.

          The thing is that the nuclear power plant, although it allows the nuclear submarine to not appear on the surface for months, develop unimaginable speed under water and dive to unattainable depths, but it cannot be drowned out and therefore it constantly makes noise. In addition, seawater is used to cool it down, which then "phonit", which allows the enemy to detect and track down the ship. What our diesel-electric submarines took advantage of. How successfully the B-268 "Veliky Novgorod" and the B-271 "Kolpino" coped with this can be judged by the fact that after the incident that took place, when the NATO submarine could not fulfill the task assigned to it, Her Majesty's Admiralty prepared a document with a proposal to postpone the completion of this top English series or even cancel it due to their vulnerability to our diesel submarines. I attach the promised links - (I attached links to the Daily Star and the Daily Mail, but the Portal program blocks them, sorry!)
          1. 2534 Offline
            2534 31 July 2020 00: 12
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            Quote: Volkonsky
            In vain! Two of our "admirals" took part in the pursuit. Always send to cart without reading

            WITH WHAT?!? "A stub of hydroacoustics" called "Platinum-M"?!?! And even a towed antenna ... it's not even FUNNY ...

            Quote: Volkonsky
            the boat did not complete the combat mission

            - and she WAS?!?! Personally, I only see "dirty finger sucking" by DULL JOURNALISM! lol

            Quote: Volkonsky
            The main feature of boats of this class is their noiselessness.

            Stop smacking BOTH, it hurts!
            The ratio of Dobn with "los" (nodes by 6) until the end of the 80s was approximately one and a half times ahead of 877 (on the HED EKH, i.e. less than on the nodes, if there is a large HED, then 877 began to "ring")
            At the turn of the 90s - parity, and closer to the middle, Everything ... PLA "flogged" 877!
            I have a friend, the commander of the sonar group just "flogged" 877 at very good distances, and in the presence of the former. Polarinsk brigade commander Streltsov. laughing

            Quote: Volkonsky
            The thing is that the nuclear power plant, although it allows the nuclear submarine to not appear on the surface for months, develop unimaginable speed under water and dive to unattainable depths, but it cannot be drowned out and therefore it constantly makes noise. In addition, seawater is used to cool it, which then "phonit"

            lol Your "MURZILKI" on this part are simply ridiculous. laughing
          2. 2534 Offline
            2534 31 July 2020 00: 43
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            Quote: Volkonsky
            in the NATO classification, boats of this type were given the name "Black Hole"

            fool LIES
            And now, a bit of reality. wink
            Varshavyanka requires upgrade

            https://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2019-06-28/1_1050_warszawa.html

            At one time, the decision to build a series of Project 6363 submarines for the Black Sea Fleet was significantly influenced by Admiral Gennady Aleksandrovich Suchkov, Admiral of the Russian Defense Minister. At the same time, he perfectly understood all their shortcomings, but the question was critical in terms of timing: it was necessary to urgently increase the combat potential of the Black Sea Fleet.
            However, the issue of a number of shortcomings inherent in the submarines of the 6363 project remains unresolved, namely:
            - the absence of a flexible extended towed antenna (GPBA) in the hydroacoustic complex (SAC);
            - the lack of anti-torpedoes in the ammunition of this submarine, as well as the low efficiency of the available passive anti-torpedo protection means - hydroacoustic countermeasures (SGPD);
            - in fact, the antique level of telecontrol of torpedo weapons, by and large "frozen" at the level of Western models more than half a century ago.
            It should be especially emphasized that these acute, problematic issues are the most critical for the domestic submarine shipbuilding, and the departure from them has not technical reasons, but purely organizational ones: the unwillingness to really reveal the problems and seriously understand them. Especially when it affects either "authorities" or technical solutions approved and already adopted by the customer.
            Against the background of these three critical shortcomings, other shortcomings of the project are already second-order issues, although they are also very acute and urgent, and cannot be postponed. However, these three critical shortcomings must be eliminated as soon as possible!

            "Purely for reference" - the absence of GPBA is incl. impossibility of using the most informative low frequency range.

            - and Modern domestic non-nuclear submarines

            https://arsenal-otechestva.ru/article/540-2015-3-nonatom
            1. Volkonsky Offline
              Volkonsky (Vladimir) 31 July 2020 01: 00
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              Everything rests on the tasks solved by this diesel-electric submarine - it is the carrier of Calibers with the possibility of underwater launch, the real application in the SAR has already been with the B-268 "Veliky Novgorod" -



              Cheap and cheerful! There was no need to build more expensive submarines for this.
              1. 2534 Offline
                2534 31 July 2020 01: 08
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                Quote: Volkonsky
                Cheap and cheerful!

                You need to reach the point of the volley!
                In SAR, our 636 were "on the gun" of the Turkish diesel-electric submarines, and if it had come to war, our "Warsaw" Turks would have melted like KITTENS.
                PS Stop already spank nonsense (it hurts!) carry illiterate and incompetent nonsense!
  • Netyn Offline
    Netyn (Netyn) 30 July 2020 19: 47
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    Quote: Volkonsky
    Although it is purely theoretically possible, during the Second World War there were successful cases of the use of anti-aircraft guns

    Are you talking about "akht-komma-akhty" - an 88-mm anti-aircraft gun?
  • Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 30 July 2020 19: 52
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    Quote: 2534
    "Astute". But she did not fulfill her combat mission for the reason (you’ll laugh now!) That it was prevented from doing this by our two diesel-electric submarines Veliky Novgorod and Kolpino of project 636 Varshavyanka.

    - it's not even nonsense, it's just nonsense!

    Maybe a hint of laughter at this nonsense?
    1. 2534 Offline
      2534 30 July 2020 19: 55
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      Quote: AlexZN
      Maybe a hint of laughter at this nonsense?

      - perhaps you are right, there is a "shade of banter" in the article.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 30 July 2020 20: 26
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    Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
    Quote: AlexZN
    When reading the article, the question - WHY? Why is Russia becoming an ocean power?

    And I have a question constantly looming. What for? Why did the US naval power build torture rooms at each VM base? What, there are not enough blacks for Kukluklan in their native prairies?
    Democratic countries have built a straight line for the extermination of people. Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Romania, Bulgaria ...
    True, the Lithuanians were pierced. One was left alive. For which the ECHP fined them 124 thousand euros. In order to properly dispose of the corpses, we did not hope that it might "die by itself."

    Regardless of the truth of the statement, the answer is - they can afford it. If the costs bring tangible benefits, then it is cost effective.
  • 2534 Offline
    2534 30 July 2020 23: 30
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    Quote: Volkonsky
    As Khraptovich said, the personal factor played a role again

    Brehlo he. And his nonsense was presented to him (at Autonomika), after which he began to "turn on the back." Specifically for "Losharik", there are good reasons to believe an ERROR, namely an ERROR - those who made the decision on 433LI ... there were safety tests, it was on the purchase of ovs (unlike the torpedo "Lyon"), but most likely their "depth of control "proved to be insufficient.
    1. Volkonsky Offline
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 31 July 2020 00: 04
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      Nobody knows the truth about the fire at AS-31! Neither you, nor Khraptovich, nor even me. But here at least an attempt at analysis -

      https://topcor.ru/10039-gibel-jekipazha-as-31-rossija-poterjala-unikalnyh-specov.html.
      1. 2534 Offline
        2534 31 July 2020 00: 15
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        Quote: Volkonsky
        But here is at least an attempt to analyze

        Sorry, but this is not an "analysis", but analyzes. lol

        Quote: Volkonsky
        no one knows the truth about the fire on the AS-31

        We read DOCUMENTS (on purchases of gov and not only), and KNOWING THE TOPIC, CONCLUSIONS are quite drawn to ourselves.
  • 2534 Offline
    2534 31 July 2020 00: 26
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    Quote: Volkonsky
    But here at least an attempt at analysis -

    https://topcor.ru/10039-gibel-jekipazha-as-31-rossija-poterjala-unikalnyh-specov.html.

    It is believed that the AS-12 station is equipped with its own subordinate vessel - the mini-submarine "Rus"

    fool Moreover, there is ALL the article in such "pearls". belay
  • Volkonsky Offline
    Volkonsky (Vladimir) 31 July 2020 00: 35
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    Quote: 2534
    "Tiger" in the summer of 1942?

    Tiger I - heavy tank; production: from mid-1942 to mid-1944 (1356 cars).
    For the first time, Tiger tanks took part in hostilities on August 29, 1942 at the Mga station near Leningrad, and began to be massively used during the capture of Kharkov in February - March 1943. Used by the Wehrmacht and SS troops until the end of World War II.
    1. 2534 Offline
      2534 31 July 2020 01: 02
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      Quote: Volkonsky
      29 of August 1942 of the year at the Mga station


      I have "only one question" - you will assert that Shumilin is exactly THIS "Tiger" captured? ;)
      We are waiting for the next "series" of "changing shoes in a jump" laughing
      1. Volkonsky Offline
        Volkonsky (Vladimir) 31 July 2020 01: 19
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        What is the change of shoes? You doubted the possibility of using a heavy tank by the Germans in the summer of 1942, I gave a link that they used it for the first time on August 29. 1942 What prevented them from using it on another sector of the front, not near Leningrad, August 30. or Aug 31? Why does it follow that this is all a lie? And so in everything! A quote is taken, taken out of context, then general conclusions are made - the author is nonsense, listen to all of me. Sergei will come, I will specifically ask him to comment on these claims. After all, I'm not the author of the theory of using "maxims" on tanks. As for the AC-31 about Russia, the same thing. This statement was only speculative. Since all infa on this boat is closed. And the text is not about that at all! But what difference does it make to what the text is about when the author writes with errors ?!
        1. 2534 Offline
          2534 31 July 2020 01: 25
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          Quote: Volkonsky
          Aug 29. 1942 ... What prevented them from using it on another sector of the front, not near Leningrad, on August 30. or Aug 31?

          I am this Nonsense I won't even comment, just put a smile - fool

          Quote: Volkonsky
          Sergey will come, I will specifically ask him to comment on these claims

          lol And yes, don't forget to tell Khraptovich that he is being flogged here. lol

          Quote: Volkonsky
          As for the AC-31 about Russia, the same thing. This statement was only speculative

          wassat fool Tell me, is the Earth by chance not "flat" for you (and on 3 whales)? lol - otherwise the level of your "technical competence" wassat leads to such thoughts. wink
  • marciz Online
    marciz (Stas) 31 July 2020 01: 15
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    Tales for suckers)))) So it was already in the USSR, there are a lot of weapons, but the guts are too thin to use them)))) All these weapons will then be sold under the hammer by someone very clever, as they are now selling weapons to the USSR. They do it at the expense of the Russians, and one olegarch will sell it. You citizens do not have faith and spirit. You can't even find normal managers for the position of governors, you always find some scum))))
  • 2534 Offline
    2534 31 July 2020 08: 55
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    And also "a bit of realities".
    Ceremonial splendor and combat effectiveness. About the Main Naval Parade and not only

    https://topwar.ru/173633-paradnyj-blesk-i-boevaja-jeffektivnost-o-glavnom-voenno-morskom-parade-i-ne-tolko.html

    Had we now even enter into sluggish clashes with some competent adversary who will be able to "work out" on our weak points (mine and anti-submarine defense, for example), not allowing ourselves to impose those scenarios in which we are strong (a fight with any surface ships), and our political system will receive a blow from which it will never rise. The most powerful propaganda convinced the people that we are, if not the strongest in the world, then almost the most.
    Several submarines destroyed "dry" and a mined base, from which we cannot quickly and without losses get out, will give the population the impression not only that they have been lied to, but that the entire state machine is weak, inferior and unusable.
    At the same time, due to the fact that crowds do not know how to think rationally, everything that comes from the authorities will be considered a lie. Even the truth.
  • Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 31 July 2020 18: 09
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    It has already received the status of an energy superpower. On the way, as stated, the status of an agrarian superpower ...
  • Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 31 July 2020 21: 10
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    Quote: 123
    When reading the article, the question - WHY? Why is Russia becoming an ocean power? Why does Russia need such a large fleet? What does Russia get from the opportunity to sink US aircraft carriers? To get some moral pleasure? I always believed that the presence of a strong fleet should materialize in some kind of benefits, otherwise - WHY?

    Try to replace Russia with the USA or China, perhaps it will become clearer.

    Doesn't fit. The Americans are monetizing their dominance in the world and in the seas in particular, the Chinese will come to this. Russia, by definition, is a mainland empire, not an insular one; it has no special need and certainly has no possibility of domination on the seas.
  • LeeSeeTsin Offline
    LeeSeeTsin (Stas) 2 August 2020 22: 32
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    "The newest minesweeper Yakov Balyaev has been sent to the Pacific Fleet."

    "The Kingisepp Machine Works has opened a boat route."

    "The fourth" Karakurt "for the Pacific Fleet was laid down in Komsomolsk-on-Amur."

    This is the title of the articles on the naval site. It's hard to be a Great Maritime Power on minesweepers and boats.
    Although, as proved by English scientists, Robinson sailed on his junk around the island.
  • Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) Yesterday, 01: 03
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    Agonizingly straining my memory.
    I reread Stanyukovich and Pikul, leafed through history textbooks. I did not find that period in history when Russia in general, and even more so the current Russian Federation, was a Great Sea Power.