"Forced patriotism": who is haunted by the issue of educating the youth of the Russian Federation


The Russian authorities are proposing to introduce additional programs of "patriotic education" in schools. Lev Schlossberg, a member of the Pskov Regional Assembly, shared his thoughts on this with the Echo of Moscow resource. His statements with abbreviations are published by the Bulgarian branch of the German Deutsche Welle - Bulgarians, apparently, are haunted by the approach of Russians to the education of young people.


Schlossberg talks about the "forced patriotism" taught to children in the Russian Federation.

When schools start implementing government programs of patriotism, it means that something is wrong in the country itself. If children must learn to love their homeland, it means that the homeland does not love its children. Patriotism is love, personal feeling, personal experience, and the Motherland is not the state and power, the Motherland is the place with which each person connects the sources of his life.

When children begin to learn to love the state and power, this is no longer patriotism, but the education of loyalty and obedience. And at key moments, when the fate of the Fatherland is being decided, a person brought up in this way must choose between love for the Motherland and loyalty to the state - and therefore can easily change the Motherland. Because love for the homeland sometimes requires you to go against the state and against the government.

Patriotism is often confused with military history, with the history of bloodshed and sacrifice. The living rulers hide behind the dead who cannot argue with them.

When children are told about the civil war, will they be told that it was not a victory of the Reds over the Whites or Greens, but a national tragedy?

When children will be told about patriotism and given an example of the Great Patriotic War, will they tell them about the price of victory? About the destruction of commanders and military specialists before the war; the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact; about Stalin's murderous mistakes; millions of soldiers not yet discovered or buried; about the winners sent to concentration camps after the victory; about disabled people hidden somewhere in the desert; about "children of war"; about the high-rise buildings built over mass graves in concentration camps?

Will they tell them about millions of denunciations, about "black funnels", about "troikas", about the Gulag, about the death penalty for children over 12 years old? Will this be part of the patriotic education that we should be proud of? Or at least remember so as not to repeat yourself?

And will the bitter truth about people's suffering fall into the lessons of state patriotism?

Why is patriotic education in our country primarily military-patriotic? Why is it not peaceful and patriotic?

Forced patriotic education is a harbinger of state political bankruptcy. At any age, in every country.

Love for the Motherland is an exclusively personal feeling. It cannot be found in textbooks, presidential decisions, parliaments and governments, or at party congresses.

Patriotism stems from human rights and freedoms, from his material satisfaction, from his love for his neighbor and for the far. Patriotism does not grow out of poverty, out of humiliation and insults, out of contempt for the individual, out of injustice and lies.

The state can teach a lesson in patriotism by stopping stealing and serving people. Then it would not have occurred to anyone to teach state patriotism in schools simply because the children would know that the Motherland loves them, Schlossberg sums up.
Used photos: http://mil.ru/
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  1. Arkharov Offline
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 22 July 2020 19: 10
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    I agree with Schlossberg. In general, a brave politician and an exceptionally bright mind.
    1. Sergey Tokarev Offline
      Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) 22 July 2020 20: 27
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      Apparently, his ass is clean ... he regularly communicates with LGBT people ... Chairman of the Pskov regional branch of the party and a member of the Federal Political Committee of the Yabloko party, deputy of the Pskov regional assembly of deputies from Yabloko, editor of the newspaper Grazhdanin and ex - the chief editor of the newspaper "Pskov province", the first laureate of the Boris Nemtsov Foundation Prize "For courage in the struggle for democratic values ​​in Russia" and laureate of the Moscow Helsinki Group Prize "For courage shown in the defense of human rights" ("I consider myself a European-oriented person"), Lev Shlosberg told Novaya Gazeta, Interfax and TASS about his intention to run for governor of the Pskov region.

      - I will definitely run for governor. This is not news for the Pskov region for a long time, today I only confirm that I will do it, - said Schlosberg.
      1. Arkharov Offline
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 22 July 2020 20: 51
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        A very decent person. If there were such people in power, how could the country change ...
        1. magma Offline
          magma (Tatyana) 23 July 2020 11: 25
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          If there were such people in power, how could the country change ...

          - it's even scary to imagine ...
          1. Michael1950 Offline
            Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 13: 20
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            What frightens you so much, Tatiana? lol
      2. Tatyana Offline
        Tatyana 23 July 2020 11: 27
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        Lev Schlossberg, a member of the Pskov Regional Assembly, shared his thoughts on this with the Echo of Moscow resource. His statements with abbreviations are published by the Bulgarian branch of the German Deutsche Welle - Bulgarians, apparently, are haunted by the approach of Russians to the education of young people.

        Lev Schlossberg is a member of the liberal Yabloko party - and that says it all!

        (George Soros) there was a group of economists who developed the Shatalin-Yavlinsky "500 days" program.
        George Soros organized numerous meetings for the group with leading economists from American universities, leaders and representatives of the US Federal Reserve System, central banks of Germany, Israel, Japan, and the World Bank.
        1. Arkharov Offline
          Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 July 2020 11: 32
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          ... a group of economists who developed the Shatalin-Yavlinsky "500 days" program.
          George Soros organized numerous meetings for the group with leading economists from American universities, leaders and representatives of the US Federal Reserve System, central banks of Germany, Israel, Japan, and the World Bank.

          - what was wrong with that? It’s bad that the program was never adopted. We would have lived completely differently now.
          1. Tatyana Offline
            Tatyana 23 July 2020 11: 40
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            Yavlinsky about the 500 days program, about the reforms of the 90s and the future of Russia. May 29, 2013

            1. Michael1950 Offline
              Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 13: 26
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              And why don't you like it? Gaidar-Chubais reforms - were they better ?!
              1. Tatyana Offline
                Tatyana 23 July 2020 15: 12
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                The 500 Days program was utopian from the very beginning. Purely cabinet - as the builders say, "the line is not from the ground."
                But this program "500 days" - according to the law of "Overton windows" - has successfully paved the carpet for the "Gaidar-Chubais" reforms.

                Have you read the "500 days" program yourself? It has been released in detail as a separate book.
                Now, when the Yabloko people profiled everything in their time, in 3 decades Yavlinsky can remember her and talk about her, bragging about good theses.
                But this is no longer politically serious. They passed their historic station.
                1. Michael1950 Offline
                  Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 18: 24
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                  I just read this program exactly at the time when it was published in the newspaper... I don’t think at all that you read it at the same time - how old were you then? Undoubtedly, she was a thousand times better than what happened next ...

                  https://www.yabloko.ru/Publ/500/500-days.html

                  Yavlinsky to remember her and talk about her, boasting good theses.
                  But this is no longer politically serious. They passed their historic station.

                  This is not "they drove through", it is them "ride", on the mountain to the majority of citizens of the USSR.
          2. nov_tech.vrn Offline
            nov_tech.vrn (Michael) 23 July 2020 18: 25
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            Gregory, do not dig up the dead, or do you think that there are no people here who once dismantled these 500 days? Declaration of intent.
        2. Michael1950 Offline
          Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 13: 24
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          And that was great! And the program "500 days" was an excellent program - I thoughtfully read it at one time, You are not... But Boris Yeltsin categorically refused to use it. And instead of the clever Yavlinsky, he invited Yegor Gaidar to the post of prime minister. As assistants - Chubais ... And - away we go ...
  2. nov_tech.vrn Offline
    nov_tech.vrn (Michael) 22 July 2020 19: 22
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    It's not even a smell, but a full amber. Ekho Moskvy and Deutsche Welle on the one hand and on the other side Schlosberg Leva, the body became known at the federal level after the publication in 2014 of information about the death of military contract soldiers from Pskov, this was not subsequently confirmed. The investigation appeared in a newspaper published by the author himself.
    Lev Schlosberg has been a deputy in the Pskov Regional Assembly since 2011. In 2015, he was deprived of his powers, and in court he was refused to appeal this decision.
  3. goncharov.62 Offline
    goncharov.62 (Andrei) 22 July 2020 19: 54
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    Why is patriotic education in our country primarily military-patriotic? Why is it not peaceful and patriotic?

    Because Russia always interferes with the West, i.e. to your friends.
    1. A hammer Offline
      A hammer (Igor) 23 July 2020 19: 45
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      Not to friends, but to the drivers of this cattle.
  4. Nikolay Malyugin (Nikolai Malyugin) 22 July 2020 20: 06
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    Shouting to the whole world that you are a patriot is simply indecent. Patriotism consists in love for what surrounds you. And if someone destroys it all, then he is just an enemy. So that he doesn't talk about himself. The main thing is not to turn patriotism in schools into a flash mob. We really love to wrap everything in a beautiful wrapper.
  5. 123 Offline
    123 (123) 22 July 2020 20: 29
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    Lev Schlossberg, member of the Pskov Regional Assembly

    It became straightforwardly interesting what kind of assembly was it, I went looking for it, apparently, this is a regional branch of the "Assembly of the Peoples of Russia" (although I did not find a mention of the Pskov regional branch on the site).
    Honorary Chairman Abdulatipov Ramazan Gadzhimuradovich, this "glorious" All-Russian public organization, the one that as the president of Dagestan could not do anything. As I understand it, this is his "honorary link".
    There is a chairman, 15 first deputies, more than 90 members of the presidium and more than 170 members. Taking into account the fact that the names in the lists overlap, this is about 250 people.
    The site contains information about 64 regional offices, how many people work there, I find it difficult to say, I think there are hundreds.
    There is also the "Youth Parliamentary Assembly of the Pskov Region", I believe, in other subjects there are similar ones, as well as the all-Russian central body. How much does the content of these obscure associations cost, I think, is a rhetorical question. Maybe just overclock them? No one will notice their absence.
    In which of them the respected Lev Markovich has the honor to work, I do not know, however, as well as his glorious deeds in the field of social activity, which equally applies to his colleagues, but one thing I have learned firmly. As soon as any figure begins to discuss the topics of "how to equip Russia" or "how to educate the younger generation", it means exactly one thing - he is not burdened with unbearable duties at the main place of work and he is clearly paid too much. And the results of his main work, as a rule, are not brilliant.
    If you look at the success of Lev Markovich as a politician, and he is the Chairman of the Pskov regional branch and a member of the federal Political Committee of the Yabloko party, I think many will agree with me. The results of the party in the elections, as a rule, are at the level of statistical error and this is a vivid illustration of the "successes" of Lev Markovich and his associates.
    I absolutely do not like the fact that people who clearly do not reflect public opinion climb into education programs. Now suddenly Kudrin will suddenly take care of the affairs of the youth, then Gref, now the figures of a lower rank decided to show themselves. They should not be allowed to work with young people on a cannon shot. Let them go abroad, where they teach their own children, and there they prepare a shift for themselves.
    1. Digital error Offline
      Digital error (Eugene) 22 July 2020 22: 16
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      Quote: 123
      this is his "honorable link"

      Nurgaliev - to remind, after which he left and where now?

      Quote: 123
      Maybe just overclock them?

      We do not have a dictatorship (yet), but I think soon "the people will ask" - of course, for their own safety, otherwise there are enemies all around ...

      Quote: 123
      As soon as any figure begins to discuss the topic of "how to educate the younger generation", it means exactly one thing.

      The head of the Federation Council Committee on Constitutional Legislation and State Construction Andrei Klishas said that the protection of children is one of the priorities of the state policy of our country. Children are our main wealth, therefore Russia, being a social state, will continue to work actively in this area of ​​activity. It turns out, in your opinion, this owner of real estate in Switzerland is not "burdened". smile For your information, the federal budget expenditures for housing in 2012 for orphans amounted to about 6 billion rubles, in 2019 - about 7 billion rubles. Compare with the amount spent on installing webcams at polling stations in 2012. Those cameras have obviously been thrown away, but the apartments would have remained.

      Quote: 123
      Party results in elections, as a rule, are at the level of statistical error

      Well, here is a good (true, biased, but this does not change its pedagogical value) analysis recently came out - enjoy your viewing:



      He is not an adept himself, but he is convinced that the general "approbation" needs (vitally, since 2012, this is in its purest form a matter of state security) a real counterbalance in the authorities, otherwise we will come to where Orwell could not have dreamed of. yes
      1. 123 Offline
        123 (123) 22 July 2020 23: 26
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        Nurgaliev - to remind, after which he left and where now?

        Is this a former Interior Minister? Who loved to do gymnastics? laughing I can remind you, I don't remember details about him.

        We do not have a dictatorship (yet), but I think soon "the people will ask" - of course, for their own safety, otherwise there are enemies all around ...

        What does the enemy have to do with it? The office of "horns and hooves", what they do, is not clear, I generally heard about them for the first time. They will close it quietly, the waters will close and "the detachment will not notice the loss of a soldier." Nobody will remember about them.

        The head of the Federation Council Committee on Constitutional Legislation and State Construction Andrei Klishas said that the protection of children is one of the priorities of the state policy of our country. Children are our main wealth, therefore Russia, being a social state, will continue to work actively in this area of ​​activity. It turns out, according to you, this owner of real estate in Switzerland is not "burdened"

        It turns out not burdened. And why is Klishas better than Schlossberg? Head of the council. fellow I do not remember either last name, who they are and what they do, it is not clear. It is from idleness that "bright thoughts" visit. In general, the SF organization is muddy, how they get there - only Allah knows, and then in general terms. Nobody chooses them, "their people" are arranged there "to resolve issues."

        For your information, the federal budget expenditures for providing housing in 2012 for orphans amounted to about 6 billion rubles, in 2019 - about 7 billion rubles. Compare with the amount spent on installing webcams at polling stations in 2012. Those cameras have obviously been thrown away, but the apartments would have remained.

        This is how any power is arranged, one's own needs, including ensuring legitimacy, are always a priority. I'm not familiar with the problem, I looked, it really turns out disgusting.

        http://government.ru/news/38620/

        If you are interested in my opinion, such things, however, like healthcare, should be solved centrally, regardless of the budget of the subjects of the federation. As for the cameras, it doesn't sound very much like "give money to retirees." There will be enough money for housing, and so the budget is surplus. This means that there is no interest in solving the problem. Let's see what can change. I think there will be changes in the direction of centralization, otherwise we will soon become like in the United States, each state has its own laws, and in the direction of a social orientation.

        Well, here is a good (true, biased, but this does not change its pedagogical value) analysis recently came out - enjoy your viewing:

        Thank you for looking. I disagree with a number of points, but that's not the point.

        He is not an adept himself, but he is convinced that the general "approbation" needs (vitally, since 2012, this is in its purest form a matter of state security) a real counterbalance in the authorities, otherwise we will come to where Orwell could not dream

        I doubt it. All these parties are profanity. Now, in the same United Russia, the majority are simply "fellow travelers" who have joined the party in power for mercantile reasons. 1-2 equivalent parties will appear, all this "ballast" will spread like liquid through the communicating vessels and nothing will change. Why is the USA or England with a two-party system better?
        1. Digital error Offline
          Digital error (Eugene) 23 July 2020 15: 10
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          Quote: 123
          Is this a former Interior Minister?

          He renamed the police to the police and left for the Security Council (in "honorary exile" - a quiet place in the sense of non-publicity) soon after the state of emergency at the Dalniy OP. The nomenclature does not abandon its own people, and this is a systemic phenomenon, and not only with Abdulatipov - I am leading to this.

          Quote: 123
          And why is Klishas better than Schlossberg?

          Those that have "access to the body." And another house in Switzerland. lol By the way, in the initial version of the amendments to the Constitution, if I am not mistaken, it was not only about the prohibition of accounts in foreign banks, but also about the prohibition of real estate. And Klishas "consolidated" these amendments (well, he was not the only one, of course, but a whole "working group" - this is to dilute the responsibility, then try to find the last one. lol ) However, all this is not important - wives and brothers / sisters were not forbidden, and rightly so - our country is free, why are they? smile

          Quote: 123
          doesn't sound very good

          So do you check or ride?

          Quote: 123
          Hence, there is no interest in solving the problem

          There is interest as long as there is an item in the budget. They just thought in 2012-2019 that this was enough, but now it follows from your link that Dmitry Anatolyevich suddenly considered that this was not enough. I don’t even know why I was suddenly concerned — whether the time had come to think about God, or United Russia should soon be promoted to the Duma. lol

          Quote: 123
          1-2 equivalent parties will appear

          As long as billions are spent on propaganda, no equivalent will appear, only "paper" ones, otherwise "strata" and "clamps" will crack. smile The rich should continue to get richer, the poor - to get poorer (not because the rich are so evil, but simply at the expense of someone else they should do it). "Eternal business" should bring ever greater profits, including due to the reduction in the cost of labor - so the convicts of the labor adaptation center IK-1 have mastered the manufacture of a new type of metal products - containers for separate waste collection -

          www.gorno-altaisk.info/news/117138

          - and there should be no garbage chutes in new houses -

          https://rg.ru/2020/06/18/minstroiu-predlozhili-zakonservirovat-musoroprovody-vo-vseh-domah.html

          - because sorting waste shouldn't be a business problem. Those who do not watch TV and managed to get an education that is not "modernized" can see and hear everything ...
          1. 123 Offline
            123 (123) 23 July 2020 21: 52
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            He renamed the police to the police and left for the Security Council (in "honorary exile" - a quiet place in the sense of non-publicity) soon after the state of emergency at the Dalniy OP. The nomenclature does not abandon its own people, and this is a systemic phenomenon, and not only with Abdulatipov - I am leading to this.

            Thank. I remembered.

            Those that have "access to the body." And another house in Switzerland. By the way, in the initial version of the amendments to the Constitution, if I am not mistaken, it was not only about the prohibition of accounts in foreign banks, but also about the prohibition of real estate. And Klishas "consolidated" these amendments (well, he was not the only one, of course, but a whole "working group" - this is to blur responsibility, then try to find the last one.) However, this is not important - wives and brothers / sisters were not forbidden and rightly so - our country is free, what is their reason?

            There is one more point - the ban on dual citizenship.
            As for "brothers / sisters were not forbidden", this is, of course, a loophole, but on the other hand, suppose I am an official, the law has been changed, I come to my brother and say - sorry, bro, you have to sell a house in Zurich. What if he doesn't want to? How can we provide a legal basis for this?

            There is interest as long as there is an item in the budget. They just thought in 2012-2019 that this was enough, but now it follows from your link that Dmitry Anatolyevich suddenly considered that this was not enough. I don’t even know why I was suddenly concerned — whether the time had come to think about God, or United Russia should soon be promoted to the Duma.

            Rather, Dmitry Anatolyevich is no longer responsible for this, and the former, as a rule, suddenly see clearly.
            As far as I understand, there are problems with provision in the "poor" regions, and funding from two sources, everything must be transferred to the federal budget.

            sorting waste shouldn't be a business problem. Those who do not watch TV and managed to get an education that is not "modernized" can see and hear everything ...

            The waste problem is solved everywhere by similar methods. Here are the Swedes for example:

            https://recyclemag.ru/article/kak-ustroen-razdelnyiy-sbor-musora-v-shvecii

            Do you want someone to rummage and sort through the garbage? And this does not concern us, is it not a royal affair?
            1. Digital error Offline
              Digital error (Eugene) 24 July 2020 08: 10
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              Quote: 123
              exes tend to suddenly wake up

              This is not enough. It is necessary to bear electoral responsibility -

              in this, among other things, political and, in particular, parliamentary and party competition based on the principles of democracy, legal democracy and political pluralism is manifested

              https://www.garant.ru/products/ipo/prime/doc/72113136/

              Quote: 123
              do you want someone to rummage and sort through the garbage? And this does not concern us, is it not a royal affair?

              And I received a decent payment for it. You might think that no one will do dirty work because of this and there will come a "complete well-being of the air." In general, it does not sound very much like "give money to retirees" and "for all the good versus all the bad." smile
              1. 123 Offline
                123 (123) 24 July 2020 11: 43
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                This is not enough. Need to be held electoral responsibility

                How's that? belay Public spitting?

                https://www.garant.ru/products/ipo/prime/doc/72113136/

                I do not see a real need to raise the retirement age, a measure that is extremely unpopular. Why was this done? I believe that the same paragraph 4, Art. 15 of the Constitution.

                And I received a decent payment for it. You might think that no one will do dirty work because of this and there will come a "complete well-being of the air." In general, it does not sound very much like "give money to retirees" and "for all the good versus all the bad."

                And where do they get a decent salary for this? Either migrants rummage in the garbage, or they send them to India or Indonesia. Do you want to throw out a bag of trash and competitors from different recycling companies pounced on it right there? And the people working there received a decent salary. Take a look in your package, I doubt that there are gold and diamonds.
                1. Digital error Offline
                  Digital error (Eugene) 24 July 2020 16: 28
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                  Quote: 123
                  Public spitting?

                  I'll take it as sarcasm, but for the readers of the day before yesterday's news (article) I will clarify the quote:

                  Deputies and factions (political parties) who find themselves in the minority are not deprived of the opportunity to both criticize their opponents and raise the issue of amending the provisions against which their amendments were directed during parliamentary activities. The parliamentary majority, having realized its advantage in voting, carries the risk of losing electoral support and voters' trust due to the possible negative consequences of the adopted legislative decisions. This, among other things, manifests itself in political and, in particular, parliamentary and party competition based on the principles of democracy, legal democracy and political pluralism.

                  Quote: 123
                  I believe that the same paragraph 4, Art. 15 of the Constitution

                  This is not a matter of international laws, but of sovereignty. This is what the IMF wanted (IMF Country Report No. 17/197

                  https://www.imf.org/ru/Countries/ResRep/RUS
                  - Check out who made the decisions and how many left after Dmitry Anatolyevich's "resignation". Once they were pushed through without obvious bonuses, it means they were forced. Where is sovereignty here (a rhetorical question, although it is pleasant to debate with you, but tiresome. smile )?

                  Quote: 123
                  I doubt that there are gold with diamonds

                  It's not about the package, but about the approach - first of all, the problems of business are solved, and secondly, of the population. The priorities are clear, so to speak.
        2. Digital error Offline
          Digital error (Eugene) 23 July 2020 15: 59
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          Quote: 123
          Why is the USA or England with a two-party system better?

          Oh yes, I forgot to answer the question, sorry. smile It is all the better that the "opposition" is heard there and that "1,5% of the city's madmen", like ours, do not come across it. It is clear that they have their own intrigues, but for these intrigues you can "get rid of" in full - both their media are equal and equally accessible, and representatives in law enforcement / judicial structures. Therefore, there - not so arrogantly and rabid ...

          Quote: 123
          how they get there - Allah alone knows

          It would be interesting to know how the control system changed after Arashukov and how the situation with him influenced the formation of this body. I suppose that in no way - who would ask them ...
          1. 123 Offline
            123 (123) 23 July 2020 21: 55
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            Therefore, there - not so arrogantly and rabid ...

            Come on, laughing Is the grass always greener on the other side of the meadow?

            It would be interesting to know how the control system changed after Arashukov and how the situation with him influenced the formation of this body. I suppose that in no way - who would ask them ...

            Yes, it has not changed in any way, it is necessary to change the entire composition and the principle of recruitment.
            1. Digital error Offline
              Digital error (Eugene) 24 July 2020 08: 17
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              Quote: 123
              Is the grass always greener on the other side of the meadow?

              Greener in this context. This system is no less effective in exploiting workers (gini 41,4), but that's another topic.

              Quote: 123
              it is necessary to change the entire composition and the principle of recruitment

              I completely agree here. hi But whoever will do this will be determined either in 1,5% of the madmen, or in the extremists, or in the vanguard of the 125th column ...
              1. 123 Offline
                123 (123) 24 July 2020 12: 24
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                Greener in this context. This system is no less effective in exploiting workers (gini 41,4), but that's another topic.

                What other system is this? Is it different in the USA and England? belay And what are the differences?
                For comparison, in addition to Russia, England and the United States, I also added Germany and Belarus.
                In this regard, England is not far from us (only 3 points), but you show me songs about our oligarchs, and about the American bourgeoisie, they do not make such videos. Why didn't you think about it?
                In Belarus, the stratification is much less, but the standard of living is somehow not very different. I mean, not everything depends on the stratification. hi

                https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=BY-DE-RU-GB-US
                1. Digital error Offline
                  Digital error (Eugene) 24 July 2020 16: 37
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                  Quote: 123
                  Why didn't you think about it?

                  Yes, it is understandable - the international propaganda (and therefore - false) slogan "but they have! <country name> You live! "Rasha Tudei also removes such films with our (taxpayers) money, about apartments in Japan 5 square meters for a" million "dollars and about the fact that even burial places after the crematorium (a grave in an expensive land near Moscow? What are you talking about? ) cannot be found there.

                  Quote: 123
                  not everything depends on the stratification

                  I did not say that. hi
                  1. 123 Offline
                    123 (123) 24 July 2020 17: 08
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                    Yes, it is understandable - the international propaganda (and therefore - false) slogan "but they have it! Rejoice that you live in <name of the country>!" Rasha Tudei also removes such films with our (taxpayers) money, about 5 square meters of apartments in Japan for a "million" dollars, and about the fact that even a place for burial of ashes after a crematorium (a grave in an expensive land near Moscow? What are you talking about) is not there ...

                    So I am about the same. yes Is it worth their "work" as an argument to give?
                    After all, in fact, nothing is different, and we are discussing how in their video "intelligence officers" expose our "spies".
                    As for RT, I have a positive opinion about this organization, they, of course, work for budget money, but they are worth it. At least they don't lie, objective information can be found both about us and about abroad. hi
                    Isn't it true that Japan is a densely populated area with a high population density? They're not talking about Australia.
                    1. Digital error Offline
                      Digital error (Eugene) 24 July 2020 17: 11
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                      Quote: 123
                      Isn't it true

                      Yes, of course. The main thing here is to correctly place accents. wink smile
    2. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 15: 32
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      I absolutely do not like the fact that people who clearly do not reflect public opinion climb into education programs.

      Mainstream of Russian society - "Orthodoxy, autocracy, nationality". So live under the shadow of these slogans until 2036 ...

      Now suddenly Kudrin will suddenly take care of the affairs of the youth, then Gref, now the figures of a lower rank decided to show themselves. They should not be allowed to work with young people on a cannon shot. Let them go abroad, where they teach their own children, and there they prepare a shift for themselves.

      So from Russia a year and so run to the West up to one and a half hundred thousand people, primarily young, smart, energetic, educated. From a lack of patriotic education? But from the West - to Russia - no, unless you consider Ukraine and Moldova - the West ...
      1. 123 Offline
        123 (123) 23 July 2020 16: 36
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        The mainstream of Russian society is "Orthodoxy, autocracy, nationality." So live under the shadow of these slogans until 2036 ...

        How do you know this? Have you read it on the Internet? Under what slogans to live - we ourselves will figure it out. yes Do not like it, live under your own.

        So from Russia a year and so run to the West up to one and a half hundred thousand people, primarily young, smart, energetic, educated. From a lack of patriotic education? But from the West - to Russia - no, unless you consider Ukraine and Moldova - the West ...

        Every emigrant on a subconscious level wants to hear confirmation that he made the right choice. If he left Russia, he believes that everything is getting worse there and everyone is fleeing from there, it remains to find the last one who turns off the light. laughing
        But whether you like it or not, this is not quite the case. Yes, people leave and come. How many there really are is difficult to count.
        Here's an opinion from a non-"pro-Kremlin" source:

        https://www.dw.com/ru/эксперт-россию-все-чаще-покидают-образованные-и-молодые/a-47127456

        Are you doing better? 15 years ago, more Jews went to Europe than to Israel, I doubt that the situation has changed a lot. Europeans emigrate en masse to Israel? Apparently, it's all about patriotic education? Or in slogans? smile

        https://www.dw.com/ru/израиль-германия-забирает-наших-иммигрантов/a-1208197

        As for the "young, smart, energetic, educated", others, as a rule, do not rush abroad if life does not press. Young people go to study, see the world, look for a better life. Let them travel while they are young, many will return. The country is free, nobody is put on a chain.
  6. Magog Offline
    Magog (Gog Magog) 22 July 2020 20: 41
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    Patriotism under the conditions of state capitalism is a utopia. A boorish official with a "tricolor" on the inner panel of a premium class car is undoubtedly a great patriot, Barvikha near Moscow has been directly resettled by true patriots, Duma deputies who stamp their laws. "Great love for the people", in the sweat of their brow for decent salaries (and kickbacks) - are also the greatest patriots. And who else?
  7. beeper Offline
    beeper 22 July 2020 20: 44
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    The main thing is that military-patriotic education should be free of all formalism and filled with real content, it would be charged with Active Positive!
    To be carried out by methodically trained propagandists, passionate about the idea of ​​educating young people, and not by random people "in the load"!

    The insidious "chernushniks" - Schlossbergs already felt uncomfortable and worried ?! Good sign! smile
    1. Magog Offline
      Magog (Gog Magog) 22 July 2020 20: 55
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      Propaganda is a tool aimed at processing the masses of people. Propagandists are propaganda masters.
      1. beeper Offline
        beeper 22 July 2020 22: 03
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        Bah, another "chernushnik" made a speech ?! wink

        General uniting State Ideology, Active Propaganda and Counterpropaganda are the vital necessity of the State and most of its respectable citizens, being in a hostile environment!
        And note, it was not Russia that declared its neighbors enemies - after all, since the time of the amerovassal Yeltsin and the "galley" first terms of Putin, it was trying only to be friends with all its neighbors (and even to join their NATO ??! what ), near and far!
        And this, maliciously minded by Washington, the European "encirclement", following its overseas curators, declared APRIORI PEACE-LOVING post-Soviet Russia as its enemy and behaved unfriendly, indiscriminately raising vain and groundlessly blaming all grave sins (even those that everyone knows very well about that they were committed by Washington and London, and their Euroassals, as was the case with the Munich Agreement of England and France with Hitler, the pro-Hitler Polish "European hyena" and their unleashing of the Second World War, with all its ruthless Holocaust of the Jewish, Russian and many other peoples, perpetrated Washington and London are now engaged in the "common Europeans" who have gone wild under the Hitlerite propaganda of "Yubermensch" racism - this "Hitler affair", the propaganda of the Anglo-Saxon alleged racial superiority over other inhabitants of the Earth, are now being dealt with by Washington and London, Israeli Jews, forgetting in fact about loy Holocaust, actively help the heirs of the executioners of Jews to spread rot and kill Russian people on the territory of the former Ukrainian SSR! Raises his head and anti-Russian ruins - "reflash" the post-Soviet space with German revanchism!) !!!

        It is the same on the human level, not only among states!
        If I, a peace-loving and kind Samaritan, an honest worker and a respectable citizen-taxpayer, some Nazi scum, marginals of the Bandera sense, for no reason at all declare me their enemy and promise me a fierce death "at knives" and "on gilliak", and I see examples of such bloody massacres of aggressive Maidan beasts over peaceful fellow citizens, should I then look at "Svidomo" Banderopithecus as my good compatriots ?!
        Or, reciprocally, and by virtue of the human instinct for self-preservation and preservation of one's kind, rejecting the good biblical calls to "turn the other cheek" to my killers, I will consider such absurd two-legged evil creatures in human guise as a mortal threat and self-declared enemies to myself - who in This is to blame, am I, who innocently called for peace and friendship between peoples, evil-minded il man-eaters - "Ukrainians" GOLF THESE ??! winked

        This is exactly the same with the Russian State - it was not itself looking for enemies, but the enemies found it and surrounded it, forcing it to defend itself !!!
        And defense - defense must always be active, keeping the enemy in constant anxiety and tension, so I, the future tank officer, commander of the Soviet Army, was taught from the very basics of tactics!
        So Agitation, Propaganda and Counterpropaganda are the restless Swords and Shields of Active Defense from the enemy adversaries and the Brains of the Compatriots of the Stronghold (especially - the shaky Reason of the young generation, iridescent-naive and unhardened in life's hardships)!
    2. Digital error Offline
      Digital error (Eugene) 22 July 2020 22: 27
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      Quote: pishchak
      To be carried out by methodically trained propagandists, passionate about the idea of ​​educating young people

      Who do you see here - "patriots" or "novices"?
      And if there is no "Uncle Vova" - will they love the Motherland or will they love their new uncle?



      Schlossberg correctly pointed out the accent - a good product does not need advertising ...
      1. beeper Offline
        beeper 22 July 2020 22: 31
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        Well, like this "productny (vocabulary, operand, it happens, gives out with a head! yes ) "Schlosberg, apparently, has become skilled in the trade of the Motherland -" he knows a lot about buying and selling ", are you really a huckster too ??!
        1. Digital error Offline
          Digital error (Eugene) 22 July 2020 22: 35
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          Quote: pishchak
          do you really

          If your question is about sympathy for Yabloko, I don’t share their desire to bargain with Crimea and renounce the “Bolshevik” heritage, which largely determines our current existence. By the way, you didn't answer the questions.
          1. beeper Offline
            beeper 23 July 2020 02: 09
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            Eh, "the chain mail is short" - the smart screen is small.
            And I wrote such a detailed answer on the whole topic, about the Union and about now, and now, scrolling the text on the "sensor", I accidentally touched the screen in the wrong place - the hour-long panting instantly disappeared without the slightest trace in the cache! request
            Well, okay, so it had to be. smile

            Do you want answers according to the already outlined, given by you, template - "patriots" or "novices" ?! smile

            My question was rhetorical, not at all about sympathy for Yabloko, but you "honestly tried" to answer it formally, with a haze. winked

            Without wobbly equivocations, I will honestly answer -
            I listened to a sincere performance and it never even crossed my mind to classify these lovely children, to try to fit them to the definitions!
            These are little children - it's good that they sing patriotic songs with clear and understandable words, easy to remember, set to rhythmic music.
            When you sing like that, you begin to feel in your subcortex your inspiring fusion with the team, the effect of synergy arises - combat officers and soldiers are also familiar with it! yes
            A good thing is collective singing of patriotic songs. good

            Whether you like it or not, but your Russian "uncle Vova" (unlike our "Vovik", who will soon be forgotten in Ukraine, as people usually try to quickly forget an unpleasant nightmare dream) is forever in the History of Russia and the Russian World, he is already an ineradicable part of our common Fatherland! winked
            New generations of Russians will love and remember V.V. Putin, together with the image of the Motherland, they will not be able to slander, even the Washington "Ministry of Truth" - after all, "Uncle Vova" is not only in the tablets of History, in the Areopagus of our Russian Heroes and Outstanding World Leaders, but also in Grateful (and among "Schlossbergs" and "offenders" in ungrateful, but also unforgettable, because the more you hate someone, the stronger his power over your memory and thoughts!) In memory of tens-hundreds of millions of Russians and Russian people all over the world - we are proud of him, our Great Compatriot, already in his lifetime, but we despise your EBN, like all dill (but whatever you want, I don't impose!)!

            With the correct formulation of a lively military-patriotic work, these Russian guys will grow into real patriots of their Motherland, but this is painstaking daily work for years, not one-time, they say, a patriotic song has been sung, a lesson of courage has been conducted and it's done! wink
            1. Arkharov Offline
              Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 July 2020 07: 53
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              New generations of Russians will love and remember Vladimir Putin

              - Could you somehow reveal in more detail what this wonderful statement of yours is based on ?! With specific justifications and examples?
            2. Digital error Offline
              Digital error (Eugene) 23 July 2020 14: 38
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              Quote: pishchak
              heard sincere performance

              Mutually, I showed you an example of high-quality propaganda, if you don't understand.

              Quote: pishchak
              Whether you like it or not

              I do not want. You are at war with the past in Ukraine, but the Yabloko people want to renounce Bolshevism. But it doesn't change anything, as you rightly noted - the past can only be rethought, no more ...

              Quote: pishchak
              true patriots of their Motherland will grow up, but this is painstaking daily work for years

              But this is unlikely to be done by anyone - it's expensive under capitalism.
              It is cheaper (more necessary?) To convince that "the state is me" (this phrase is attributed to the sun king).
      2. Michael1950 Offline
        Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 13: 33
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        Uncle Vova will lead them into the last battle - breastfeeding on embrasures, like Marshal Zhukov ...
    3. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 15: 40
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      - It was Schlosberg who organized the emigration from Russia ?!


  8. Winnie Offline
    Winnie (Winnie) 22 July 2020 22: 01
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    Thoughts, in principle, correct. Yes, patriotism is love for the Motherland. But it should be mutual love! Only when a person has a sufficient standard of living, education, medical care, feels free, has the opportunity to realize himself, etc., only then will he feel love (gratitude) for the Motherland (state).
    When love for the Motherland is imposed without giving anything in return, this is called coercion or violence against a person, which is typical for penitentiary institutions.
    Now let's see, and who is propagandizing patriotism in our country? First of all, these are those in power with accounts, real estate, wives, mistresses, children abroad. One would like to ask: what kind of patriots are you? What right do you have to talk about patriotism when you completely discredit it by your personal example? If you are not patriots, then why should we be?
    Even more questions for the authorities arise when you find out that our power is completely controlled by the West! Why in all the troubles of Russia we should blame only Obama, the State Department, ukrov and the so-called fifth column. Why is it impossible to honestly and openly say: guys, we sold ourselves to the West and that's why you live so badly, and the country is crumbling. Let's stop being a colony of the West! I will answer right away. This is NOT PATRIOTIC! Therefore, the authorities have to lie, lie, dodge, invent external and internal enemies, that is, brainwash the population and artificially form a positive, which is what the so-called "patriots" do.
    The whole process is already pretty boring. And if the "Houston project" of the CIA is completed, then Russia will fall apart, just like the USSR. And I would not like that.

    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 22 July 2020 23: 41
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      Have you heard about the changes to the Constitution? Why is this done - do you understand? The impression is that you are writing from the past. What year do you have on your calendar?
      1. Arkharov Offline
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 July 2020 07: 54
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        Do not make me laugh...
        1. 123 Offline
          123 (123) 23 July 2020 20: 30
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          Do not make me laugh...

          You? belay And in his thoughts was not. request You are funny anyway. hi
      2. Digital error Offline
        Digital error (Eugene) 23 July 2020 20: 25
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        Quote: 123
        have you heard about changes to the Constitution?

        Are these the ones for which even the CEC campaigned? Heard, heard, the Cossack listens and eats. lol At first, propaganda and VVP in every possible way distanced themselves from the Tereshkova amendment:

        https://www.rbc.ru/politics/08/06/2020/5edda9209a7947c985abca47

        - and then, according to Peskov, it suddenly turned out:

        In fact, a de facto triumphant referendum on confidence in President Putin took place

        laughing And not only heard, but also saw - not on the question making amendments, but “On the Procedure for the All-Russian Voting on the Issue endorsement amendments to the Constitution of the Russian Federation ”. smile
        1. 123 Offline
          123 (123) 23 July 2020 20: 41
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          Are these the ones for which even the CEC campaigned? Heard, heard, the Cossack listens and eats. At first, propaganda and VVP in every possible way distanced themselves from the Tereshkova amendment, and then, according to Peskov, it suddenly turned out:

          In fact, a de facto triumphant referendum on confidence in President Putin took place

          In fact, it turned out that way. Do you have everything against Putin? Personally, it suits me. I spoke about clause 4 of article 15 of the Constitution.

          The generally recognized principles and norms of international law and international treaties of the Russian Federation are an integral part of its legal system. If other rules are established by an international treaty of the Russian Federation than those provided by law, the rules of the international treaty shall apply.

          And they not only heard, but also saw - not on the issue of making changes, but "On the Procedure for All-Russian Voting on the Issue of Approving Amendments to the Constitution of the Russian Federation"

          What's wrong with the approval order?
          1. Digital error Offline
            Digital error (Eugene) 23 July 2020 20: 44
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            Quote: 123
            what's wrong

            Agitation is already in the very name of the procedure. Every penny is in the piggy bank. So with the approval order, everything is in order - it was thought out even to such trifles. Nothing rests against Putin, the amendments to the Constitution are aimed at cementing the existing strata, so that the elites stop "scouring their eyes" in search of a successor and calm down in the stability of their position and income, regardless of the name of the country's leader.
            1. 123 Offline
              123 (123) 23 July 2020 20: 56
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              Agitation is already in the very name of the procedure. Every penny is in the piggy bank.

              Do you think the result would have been different without agitation?

              amendments to the Constitution are aimed at cementing the existing strata, so that the elites stop "scouring their eyes" in search of a successor and calm down in the stability of their position and income, regardless of the name of the country's leader

              Do you want a complete change of the "elite" and the transfer of property? If it's not a secret, who are these selfless angels?
              1. Digital error Offline
                Digital error (Eugene) 23 July 2020 21: 12
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                Quote: 123
                the result would be different?

                At least not 78%, but 58%. And that is simply because the majority has a short memory, for this, the terms of office of the President and the Duma were increased, in order to "zhahnut" at first, and then the people will forget and you can promise again.

                Quote: 123
                Do you want to transfer the property?

                I would like to see during my lifetime a social turn, the hope for which you here expressed in one of the comments. Here's just yesterday's statement by Mishustin:

                The head of the Cabinet called the measures taken at the initiative of the president to support citizens and the economy unprecedented ... The government provided families with children with a number of additional payments. In total, families with more than 600 million children have received various forms of support worth about 26,5 billion rubles.

                I regard it as:
                a) pre-election appeal to the electorate - "vote for us" and
                b) an appeal to the conditional Belousov - "it's good to squander, 600 yards have already been spent on children, and it is also necessary to invest in high-quality foreign assets." Coincidentally, the payments were made on Children's Day and Election Day. If there are no payments on August 1 (the pandemic is not over), it will be possible to draw preliminary conclusions about whether we have a declarative welfare state or not, and whether it was a concern about "kids" or a banal bribery of voters.
                There are no selfless angels, as you rightly pointed out. However, this is not a reason to cement everything and be content with "stability". Fish seeks where deeper, and it is human nature to hope for the best.
                1. 123 Offline
                  123 (123) 23 July 2020 21: 37
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                  Here are just yesterday's statement by Mishustin I regard as:
                  a) pre-election appeal to the electorate - "vote for us" and
                  b) an appeal to the conditional Belousov - “it’s good to squander, 600 yards have already been spent on children, and you also need to invest in high-quality foreign assets.” By coincidence, payments were made on Children's Day and Election Day. If there are no payments on August 1 (the pandemic is not over), it will be possible to draw preliminary conclusions about whether we have a declarative welfare state or not, and whether it was a concern about "kids" or a banal bribery of voters.

                  Let's wait for August 1 and see how correct your predictions are, the week remains.

                  However, this is not a reason to cement everything and be content with "stability". Fish seeks where deeper, and it is human nature to hope for the best.

                  And how do you imagine this "where is better"?
                  1. Digital error Offline
                    Digital error (Eugene) 24 July 2020 08: 00
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                    Quote: 123
                    how do you imagine this "where is better"?

                    Reducing the concentration of income in the hands of certain groups of the population - it is necessary to share, however. Not to select and divide (have already passed), but to create such a system of income / distribution so that this issue does not arise at all. "Citizen of the World" Depardieu why did he run from France to Russia? Then, that taxes were strangled. Therefore, it is necessary to act competently, and for this it is necessary to plow (who wants something and can after 60, I mean the country's leadership) and tear off a piece of himself. You mentioned Sweden here in relation to garbage disposal - for some reason it has a gini coefficient of 28,8, while the Russian Federation has 37,5:

                    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI



                    We will wait until August 1, of course. Here Mironov yesterday proposed to make payments for children permanent - have you heard? Under oligarchic capitalism, this is pure populism with the aim of snatching 0,1% of the votes of the protest electorate ...
                    1. 123 Offline
                      123 (123) 24 July 2020 11: 29
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                      Reducing the concentration of income in the hands of certain groups of the population - it is necessary to share, however. Not to select and divide (have already passed), but to create such a system of income / distribution so that this issue does not arise at all. "Citizen of the World" Depardieu why did he run from France to Russia? Then, that taxes were strangled. Therefore, it is necessary to act competently, and for this it is necessary to plow (who wants something and can after 60, I mean the country's leadership) and tear off a piece of himself. You mentioned Sweden here in relation to garbage disposal - for some reason it has a gini coefficient of 28,8, while the Russian Federation has 37,5

                      I, too, for all good versus all bad. repeat Specifically - what do you want and how to do it?
                      We want "Swedish socialism", but at the same time, we should not offend Depardieu, so as not to run away from raising taxes. Note, he did not escape to Sweden, because there are somewhat different taxes. We want to live on oil revenues like in the Emirates and so that the export was not raw materials, but exclusively high-tech, we want salaries like in Switzerland and prices like in Moldova, high salaries and so that the cost of production is competitive.
                      Common words like "must act wisely", "share" and so on will not help here.
                      We want some kind of abstract "paradise" and grumbling discontentedly - well, when will you finally do it? But there are no people on the horizon who know how to make this fairy tale come true.
                      I mentioned Sweden solely to illustrate the same approach to the problem of sorting waste disposal.

                      We will wait until August 1, of course. Here Mironov yesterday proposed to make payments for children permanent - have you heard? Under oligarchic capitalism, this is pure populism with the aim of snatching 0,1% of the votes of the protest electorate ...

                      No, I have not heard, you yourself understand that he is half-sheet. Why would I listen to his chatter?
                      1. Digital error Offline
                        Digital error (Eugene) 24 July 2020 16: 18
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                        Quote: 123
                        how to do it?

                        Allow any "left" movement to register a party with subsequent participation in the elections. But this is what - the left front is too radical, the "essence of time" is too loyal. What I want, I have already said, is to see a social reversal and calm down for the future of children.

                        Quote: 123
                        Common words like "must act wisely"

                        I, unlike the notorious Dmitry Anatolyevich, who has been saying this all his life, having the authority and resources to change something, but not having the desire to do so, I can afford it. If I had known which party to join, I would have entered and made a feasible contribution, so far I do not see such a force, "guiding and leading".
                      2. 123 Offline
                        123 (123) 24 July 2020 16: 50
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                        Allow any "left" movement to register a party with subsequent participation in the elections. But this is what - the left front is too radical, the "essence of time" is too loyal. What I want, I have already said, is to see a social reversal and calm down for the future of children.

                        Anything? So create, who is against? There is nothing decent in their diversity. Do you want someone to make a party that you like and bring it to power? I’m afraid in this case, concern for children will haunt you to your deathbed.

                        I, unlike the notorious Dmitry Anatolyevich, who has been saying this all his life, having the authority and resources to change something, but not having the desire to do so, I can afford it. If I had known which party to join, I would have entered and made a feasible contribution, so far I do not see such a force, "guiding and leading".

                        You can say whatever you want, this is your personal opinion. But I'm afraid no one will create a suitable party for you.
                      3. Digital error Offline
                        Digital error (Eugene) 24 July 2020 16: 59
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                        Quote: 123
                        nobody for you

                        I'm sure you already know, but still. To create a party, you first need to get media fame, which starts at the municipal level. Since such a conversation has begun ... A year ago I had the idea of ​​becoming a city deputy. I opened the Charter of the town in which I live, and it says there are only 24 deputies in the City Duma, of which the chairman and his deputy are on the salary. The rest are on a voluntary basis. And I need to feed the children - I have already said. Therefore, the deputies are the directors of city enterprises who, at the Duma sessions, release themselves from work. Here is such a banal but effective "social filter". request Now, by the way, it is fashionable to distort Lenin's words - they say, he wanted to entrust the cooks with running the country. In fact, it was different - he was talking about social lifts - the state should create such conditions under which every cook in the future could lead the country.
                      4. 123 Offline
                        123 (123) 24 July 2020 17: 12
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                        I'm sure you already know, but still. To create a party, you first need to get media fame, which starts at the municipal level. Since such a conversation has begun ... A year ago I had the idea of ​​becoming a city deputy. I opened the Charter of the town in which I live, and it says there are only 24 deputies in the City Duma, of which the chairman and his deputy are on the salary. The rest are on a voluntary basis. And I need to feed the children - I have already said. Therefore, the deputies are the directors of city enterprises who, at the Duma sessions, release themselves from work. Here is such a banal but effective "social filter"

                        Clear. yes I knew a man, his wife became a deputy. He sat, thought, said, come on, guys, I quit, life is already a success (almost literally, the story is not fictional). laughing
                    2. Digital error Offline
                      Digital error (Eugene) 24 July 2020 17: 03
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                      will not create a suitable party

                      Do you know why Diogenes went down in history? Because he had time to sit in a barrel, which means that either he did not have children and a wife, or they had someone to feed them while he was not working. laughing yes
                    3. Rashid116 Offline
                      Rashid116 (Rashid) 28 July 2020 06: 48
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                      I read your dialogue with interest. In my humble opinion, Eugene is right. I also considered the option to participate in the life of my city. But I did a little work for our chairman of the city council, so not by hearsay, but personally with my own eyes, I saw such a game about our deputies and party leaders. By the way, the mayor also showed up very badly, but they were not ashamed of us, because before. did not announce that we are temporary fellow travelers)) And he knew for sure that we would not substitute him. Now he has already died (the kingdom of heaven). I mean, there is nowhere to put stigma on the existing parties, on the authorities too. Therefore, Eugene, if you organize your party, I will gladly join. And I'm not just talking about, you voice the right things.
  • Winnie Offline
    Winnie (Winnie) 24 July 2020 22: 03
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    Have you heard about the changes to the Constitution? Why is this done - do you understand?

    Sure! Exclusively for the sake of Tereshkova's amendment! All other amendments have long been enshrined in the corresponding Federal Laws, and there was no need to drag them into the Constitution.
    It seems that you are very keen on the artistic whistle of the shepherd and completely ignore other genres of music.
  • olpin51 Offline
    olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 23 July 2020 05: 40
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    Only when a person has a sufficient standard of living, education, medical care, feels free, has the opportunity to realize himself, etc., only then will he feel love (gratitude) for the Motherland (state).

    That is, you to me, and I to you. And orange juice for lunch is a must. As in the bazaar. But if you don't give it, you won't get any patriotism. We have democracy, you know. Huh?
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 23 July 2020 10: 01
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      Only when a person has a sufficient standard of living, education, medical care, feels free, has the opportunity to realize himself, etc., only then will he feel love (gratitude) for the Motherland (state). That is, you to me, and I to you. And orange juice for lunch is a must. As in the bazaar. But if you don't give it, you won't get any patriotism. We have democracy, you know. Huh?

      You can also require a box of cookies and a barrel of jam. smile And if they don’t, ask the others. yes
      Try to look at the situation from the opposite side, from the position "that is, you are for me, and I for you."
      Perhaps you will receive a counter-offer, gnaw the bark of the aspen and drink the key water. laughing
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 22 July 2020 23: 05
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    ABOUT! How much pathos.
    And the matter is simple. If you love your homeland, don't steal.
    Defending the Chubais, Rutenbergs, Usmanovs, Sobchak and the rest of the legion of hell means that you are a liar, a hypocrite and have long sold your homeland for dachas and bills over the hill.
    1. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 16: 47
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      Defending the Chubais, Rutenbergs, Usmanovs, Sobchak and the rest of the legion of hell means that you are a liar, a hypocrite and have long sold your homeland for dachas and bills over the hill.

      Doesn't this elite exist thanks to V.V. Putin? But in all Russian media, Putin is synonymous with Russia. If you don't love Putin, you don't love Russia! Something, Serge, somehow you do not fit one with the other ... You are constantly looking for cookies from the US State Department ... laughing lol
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 23 July 2020 17: 36
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        You just like to attribute US cookies to everyone.
        I like to dock - dock, who does not give ...
    2. Rashid116 Offline
      Rashid116 (Rashid) 28 July 2020 07: 11
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      ))) Sergey, did you notice how they attacked you? They have already been taught that everyone owes the state, and the state owes nothing to anyone. A sort of CJSC for their own people, they only invested in this CJSC with our property - yours and mine (and the property of our ancestors), and they take money only for themselves. And yes, it is necessary to revise the results of privatization and do it publicly and openly with imprisonment and life sentences. After all, it's not a secret for anyone how these assets were knocked out. There are more muddies there than a wagon. But, damn it - "The Furgal will not pass" (not on his side, but there was no trial yet, but knowing our journalists ...), but what are these murderers? Although knowing our judges ... Just don't say that you do not know how everything can be decided in court for money, for good money - absolutely everything. I saw it with my own eyes and more than once.
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 28 July 2020 09: 54
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        It has long been known that truth hurts your eyes.
        But, IMHO, small minuses are an indicator of honesty here.

        And the rest is dreams. Capitalism is in the yard ...
  • Balin Offline
    Balin 23 July 2020 00: 08
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    Will they tell them about millions of denunciations, about "black funnels", about "troikas", about the Gulag, about the death penalty for children over 12 years old?

    For such a historical fiction, called slander, it would be good to bring the so-called deputy to criminal responsibility.

    In the USA, Canada, France, cadets are taught full-length patriotism.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 23 July 2020 01: 20
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      Quote: Balin
      Will they tell them about millions of denunciations, about "black funnels", about "troikas", about the Gulag, about the death penalty for children over 12 years old?

      What's not true here? I don't know about the millions of denunciations, but the rest is true.
      1. Michael1950 Offline
        Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 22: 35
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        Yes, only some 4 million with a "tail" ... For a country of 170+ million! .. Even not everyone was shot, and not everyone was imprisoned ...
        1. Rashid116 Offline
          Rashid116 (Rashid) 28 July 2020 07: 27
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          Did you personally count? Maybe there is reinforced concrete evidence? You've certainly looked through all the cases, haven't you? There is such a question for you, and for others the same: now, if in an adult way, all the embezzlers and other criminals in the government work out, so that how then these scum were promoted by worthy and ideological people, what percentage will sit for a very long time? And why should we feel sorry for them? You are not a stupid person and you must understand that because they stole money from the budget, someone's whole life will be broken, because he will not receive help, and someone will die. How are they better than the rest of the killers? By not having your throat cut personally? Well, much more people will die from their actions than from some kind of scumbag. I have already answered this question to myself, I just wanted to know your opinion.
          1. Michael1950 Offline
            Michael1950 (Michael) 28 July 2020 09: 18
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            Rashid, you still don’t know that "the fish rots from the head"? ("And they clean it off the tail"). That "what is the pop, so is the arrival." In Russia, a thieves' corruption system has been created and is functioning under the control of V.V. Putin, in which, one way or another, millions, if not tens of millions of people, to one degree or another... To change it, you need a person of the level of Lee Kwang Yoo, but such people are extremely rare on the political Olympus. So, until 2036, you are all guaranteed what you have ... Switzerland will not exist, there will be Paraguay and Nicaragua of the 70s. An alternative is possible: Italy of the 20s and the new Duce!
            Hold on, hold on ...
            1. Rashid116 Offline
              Rashid116 (Rashid) 28 July 2020 11: 07
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              So I mean the same, only in other words. I often disagree with you, but here "what is, that is," I see no point in arguing. I asked you a question, I see you answered it indirectly ("if not tens of millions of people"). Zero did not do what it should have done, and we all see the result. But Stalin did - we also saw the result.
              1. Michael1950 Offline
                Michael1950 (Michael) 28 July 2020 23: 34
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                What Stalin did was horror, horror! But the task that Marx-Engels-Lenin commanded him, he did not solve. He did not cope with the organization of the world revolution, he killed 27 (36, 41) million of his own citizens for nothing, and everything collapsed, as the great Lenin bequeathed back in 1915:

                If the proletariat, which has seized power in the country, cannot help the workers of the surrounding countries in the conquest of political power, then this state of the victorious proletariat is doomed: someday the bourgeoisie of the neighboring countries will unite and overthrow the power of the proletariat!

                And so it happened: the Union of SSR, unable to withstand the competition and straining, having by chance got the fool Gorbachev as head of state, died in agony ...
                1. Rashid116 Offline
                  Rashid116 (Rashid) 29 July 2020 08: 06
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                  When they started to break the USSR, I just finished school, so I don't know why it happened. And I definitely won't believe all these figures who got dirty in this. I do not have my own opinion on this matter, because there is no information that I would trust. But somehow I doubt that one "fool Gorbachev" would have been enough to destroy the country. And the fact that we still do not really know what happened means that nothing is over yet. And those scum are still in business and continue their business.
                  1. Michael1950 Offline
                    Michael1950 (Michael) 29 July 2020 22: 19
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                    - But I was already a big boy, at the time of the final collapse of the USSR I was 41 years old, all the dynamics since 1985, since Gorbachev's accession to the throne took place before my eyes, day after day, hour after hour. It was not he alone who was to blame, but all the gerontocrats who ruled the USSR at that time. Here are all 19 people, the whole gang of assholes:


                    The wildest and most horrible thing: Gorbachev came to power when Deng Xiaoping's reforms had been going on in China for 5 (five!) Years and yielded magnificent results! It would seem to fools: take one to one and make "track in track"! No ... The devil did those that ... Gorbachev (with grunts) made three monstrous economic mistakes that caused inflation in the country first, then hyperinflation, commodity hunger "out of the blue", food hunger - also "out of the blue" - and then the republics rushed scatteringly.
                    1. He sharply reduced the production of vodka and wine in the country - this was the main pillar that did not allow inflation to happen.
                    2. He allowed the directors of enterprises, research institutes, etc., to assign wages to employees at their own discretion.
                    3. He allowed all responsible persons to transfer non-cash to cash.
                    And the financial system of the USSR collapsed.
                    No CIA would ever have thought of what one of its own mediocre idiots who ended up at the helm of state power could do ...
                    AND THE TRYNDETS COME.
                    If Andropov had promoted Aliyev to the post of general secretary instead of Gorbachev, the USSR would still be alive and prosperous better than China... But - not destiny ...
                    1. Rashid116 Offline
                      Rashid116 (Rashid) 30 July 2020 06: 18
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                      That it was a "mistake" I doubt very much. Although I was young, I saw and heard everything. Everything was done more or less competently. And this is a general deficit, and how then in a short time everything appeared out of nowhere. And all this in relation to some specific events. MMM this appeared from nowhere, disappeared the same way. The funny thing is that this goof (Mavrodi) died in poverty, maybe it’s easier for him there from the thought that he’s half the country here too)))). All jokes, but all sane people should understand - all this was done to get to the common assets at that time. And our authorities betrayed us, and killed, starved, humiliated only because of this. And everything else is water.
                      1. Michael1950 Offline
                        Michael1950 (Michael) 31 July 2020 01: 21
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                        I am in this absurdity that Gorbachov, Yakovlev and Shevardnadze deliberately made the collapse of the USSR - I will never believe. They were like the Olympic gods at the pinnacle of power - to cut off the branch on which they sat all their lives and to the top of which they were carried is nonsense. Dull shower for woodpeckers. This is not conspiracy, this is moronology. "It doesn't work that way."
                        They "they wanted the best, but it turned out as always". It's just sheer incompetence and a number of fatal decisions that were already impossible to correct ...
                        Roughly like the introduction of troops into Afghanistan at the end of 1979 - by the decision of four gerantokrats: Brezhnev, Ustinov, Suslov, Gromyko.

                        https://licey.net/free/2-srazheniya__izmenivshie_hod_istorii/12-srazheniya__izmenivshie_hod_istorii__1945_2004/stages/1277-40_reshenie_o_vvode_sovetskih_voisk_v_afganistan.html
                      2. Rashid116 Offline
                        Rashid116 (Rashid) 31 July 2020 06: 32
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                        They were there temporarily (at the pinnacle of power), no one allowed our bureaucrats to openly fight, as now. The KGB then knowingly ate its bread, not like now the special six from the powers that be. Well, look for yourself, because everywhere there is a suburb built up with cottages, many of which belong to officials with a salary of 50-100 thousand, and they cost 8-15 million and a car in the yard for 5-10 million - can you count? When I realized that I wanted to be an entrepreneur and make money, I went on free bread. And he did not steal, hiding behind his official position, old people and children. And I'm not so naive as to think that you can occupy such a high position if you are a dumbass. So about stupid elders or calculating scum, we, perhaps, will each stay with his own opinion.
                      3. Michael1950 Offline
                        Michael1950 (Michael) 31 July 2020 09: 35
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                        Rashid, you don't understand at all in the life of that time, that's why you say such ridiculous things: "Nobody let anyone openly greet you there." They were the supreme power and lived like Arab sheiks, on everything absolutely ready! Brezhnev's daughter flew to Paris twice a week - to get dirty, get a manicure, a haircut ... And the KGB did not dare to utter a word then! He was completely subordinate to the party leadership... THERE WAS NO POWER OR KGB CONTROL OVER PARTY STRUCTURES AND COULD NOT BE. These things should be known, at least. It is now that all the people from the KGB have seized power and there is absolutely no control over them, but then - at the top there were only party structures, yes, the KGB chairman was brought into the Politburo of the Central Committee - if he behaved well.

                        So about stupid elders or calculating scum, we, perhaps, will each stay with his own opinion.

                        All your opinions are based on myths and legends, mine - on observations and facts. Naturally, your opinions are simply ridiculous to me: the top of the CPSU had sanatoriums and dachas in all parts of the USSR, if you want, rest in Sukhumi, if you want, rest on the Riga seaside, if you want on Baikal, if you want (if it comes to mind) - in Kamchatka and in hundreds of places in the USSR. Their planes at their airfield in Chkalovsk. Own ships and yachts on all the surrounding seas. Everywhere there is a sanatorium and a suite, everywhere the local boss will put a beauty in your bed, or even two, who will take turns doing everything for you - and absolutely free! lol Millionaires living in the most fashionable mansions of the Moscow region do not have even a hundredth of the opportunities that members of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU had... You just don't understand it ...
                      4. Rashid116 Offline
                        Rashid116 (Rashid) 1 August 2020 10: 40
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                        They had to hide it all (to be honest, I doubt that it happened at all - ships, yachts, airplanes ...) and it was available to a small circle. And yet, from time to time, these rats were caught by the KGB and smeared their forehead with green paint, which is true))). And now anyone who makes a decision, more or less, even at the collective farm level, slightly resembles a pharaoh. Also, everyone is in tweets and trinkets, around the servants of some kind of muddy, slaves. Even if what you wrote is true, then this is not enough for such "people". They need to hang out beautifully with their own, brag about yachts and slaves. You do understand that even if it was as you say, a limited number of people could use all this (well, so that without a palette). And now ... well, you yourself know. And, the question is not the topic - in the nickname 1950 is the year of birth? If yes, then my mother was also born in the 50th. But she is such an ardent introverted person))) I see you do not support him (me too, by the way). But I do not argue with her, I agree with everything))) I am 50 soon, and I still hide when I smoke (smoked, or rather quit). You are the generation (if this is your year of birth) that I am truly proud of. Everything fell on you after the war. Withstood, rebuilt, did not exchange.
                      5. Michael1950 Offline
                        Michael1950 (Michael) 1 August 2020 12: 22
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                        They had to hide it all (to be honest, I doubt that it happened at all - ships, yachts, airplanes ...) and it was available to a small circle.

                        Of the 280 million citizens of the USSR, it was about 100 thousand people - with children, household members, mistresses, especially close servants. Everyone who was served by the 4th Department of the USSR Ministry of Health. It took 80% of the budget of the Ministry of Health. Just count: 80% - per 100 thousand people - and 20% of the remaining 280 million - the rest of the country's population. The former actually "lived under communism." They didn't need a lot of money.

                        And yet, from time to time, these rats were caught by the KGB and smeared their forehead with green paint, which is true))).

                        Only a few of these 100 thousand, too much forfeited, which the boss will point at from above... NO OTHER WAY. On their own initiative, none of the KGB officers (of any level) even dared to look in their direction! There is a wonderful film about that era - "Driver for Faith":

                        http://www.fast-torrent.ru/film/voditel-dlya-veryi.html

                        And now any more or less decision-maker, even at the collective farm level, slightly resembles a pharaoh. Also, everyone is in tweets and trinkets, around the servants of some kind of muddy, slaves.

                        This is a "big-bellied little thing", no matter how puffed up they are. No real power, no real money ...

                        Even if what you wrote is true, then this is not enough for such "people". They need to hang out beautifully with their own, brag about yachts and slaves.

                        Now this "Forbes list" should brag about who has the longer yacht. Then it did not matter - the person in question simply chose from the entire available assortment where he would like to be in his free time (which, by the way, was not so much) - and spent his vacation there.

                        You do understand that even if it was as you say, a limited number of people could use all this (well, so that without a palette).

                        I say: about a hundred thousand lived under communism. There were about a million other riffraffs around. The rest were sucking their paws. There were, of course, "shadow workers", "tsekhoviks", head. magicians, head. warehouses - but they had to share with everyone - with the cops, with the OBKhSS, with the prosecutor's office, even with the FSB, - there has always been corruption in the USSR - even under Stalin! laughing

                        And now ... well, you yourself know. And, the question is not the topic - in the nickname 1950 is the year of birth?

                        Yes. I've been living for a long time. October 1 will be 70. :)

                        If yes, then my mother was also born in the 50th.

                        Well, we could sit at the same desk with her ... lol

                        But she is such an ardent intruder)))

                        Poor thing ... The TV box zombies the population just like black ... She, hey, remembers Brezhnev with nostalgia, and how she loves Stalin! laughing ME NOT... I know history too well ...

                        You, I see, do not support him (me too, by the way). But I do not argue with her, I agree with everything)))

                        Well, why upset mom? We must assent ...;)

                        I'm 50 soon, and I still hide when I smoke (I smoked, or rather, I quit). You are the generation (if this is your year of birth) that I am truly proud of.

                        Have you heard such a poem by Kushner "You can't choose the times"? Did Nikitin write a song for him?



                        Everything fell on you after the war. Withstood, rebuilt, did not exchange.

                        However, I think that much greater troubles and hardships fell on the shoulders of our parents, including mine (father - born in 1917, mother - in 1914). I did not feel any hardships and deprivations - also because I had normal parents - I did not drink, did not smoke, did not quarrel, did not fight ...
                        Their generation suffered extraordinary troubles, hardships and hardships, not mine ...
                      6. Rashid116 Offline
                        Rashid116 (Rashid) 2 August 2020 08: 27
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                        Did you see what happened then with your own eyes? I observe with my own eyes what is happening now, and I also observed from their side (I worked for the head of the City Council, there was no choice. As the saying goes: "I will tell you for all my millions, except for the first")))). And I will tell you honestly - with such a cattle (although they consider us cattle) I could not work anyway. I do not participate in tenders for the same reason. Well, I also give my money to someone in a bastard (at least a penny) in whatever form it is (roof, kickbacks, etc.). I returned to the beginning of the dialogue, otherwise I had already forgotten what they started arguing with))), but in fact there is no dispute. You say that there was horror then, I say that now it is much worse. But in principle, neither then nor now my compatriots do not live the way they deserve. But then there were objective reasons - they rebuilt after the war, but now, after what kind of war do we have such losses - both material and human? Moreover, the damage is seriously compared with the losses of the Second World War. And you yourself wrote that about 100000 to 280000000, but now? And they taught people that it seems to be normal to rat with the budget. Filmed films where all these officials, embezzlers and cops, werewolves are kind of smart guys, masters of a beautiful life. And not just fucking rats who were entrusted with something, but they did not cope with their rotten nature and stupidly began to steal and muddle their affairs. And these bureaucrats are now the majority, if not all. Therefore, just honestly answer yourself to the question that I asked at the beginning of our dialogue: How long do you need to lean these creatures against the wall in order to more or less put things in order in these gadyushniks? And this is "Driver for Faith" - are you serious? Then so much chernukha was filmed precisely in order to bury that generation (yours, by the way) and present itself beautifully (state embezzlers and werewolf cops). And it turned out, they taught me ...
                      7. Michael1950 Offline
                        Michael1950 (Michael) 3 August 2020 02: 30
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                        I can say only one thing: the modern system of state government in Russia is an analogue of the Latin American dictatorships of the 70s - Samosa, Peron, Stroessner in Portugal ... Pinochet was an exception - he was much more progressive. The power of one party in the overwhelming majority of cases is a huge misfortune for the country and the people. Exceptions and leaders are extremely rare: Pinochet, Lee Kwang Yew, Franco ... For dozens and dozens of notorious corrupt officials who do not care about the welfare of their countries at all.
                        I do not believe that a progressive dictator will replace Putin. IMHO, Russia's only salvation is the transition to a parliamentary system ...

                        Therefore, just honestly answer yourself to the question that I asked at the beginning of our dialogue: How long do you need to lean these creatures against the wall in order to more or less put things in order in these gadyushniks?

                        If I answer this question sincerely, I will be banned from this forum forever ... laughing lol But the answer is obvious: firstly, the most important thing, and secondly, about 30 people from his inner circle. Then - early parliamentary elections, FAIR ELECTIONS, then - the transition to a parliamentary system of government.
                      8. Rashid116 Offline
                        Rashid116 (Rashid) 3 August 2020 08: 01
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                        Well, no - the leader and those close to the kichu, and the rest of the type jumped off? I am so more bloodthirsty, especially since they left no choice with their actions. Everyone who took part in this Sabbath should sit down and die (since the 90s, without a statute of limitations and not "looking at merit"), and not only they, but also their loved ones and children. We can't move on if we don't bury these ghouls. I already wrote, these rats will change their clothes in a jump, and will also shit and slow down the country. I don’t understand why people look at embezzlement as petty pranks? Still, they must understand that these are accomplices in the degradation of our country and stupid accomplices in the murder, if not specific perpetrators. These rats are dragged from everywhere, from medical funds and funds for helping people with disabilities too. And this means that someone will not wait for the operation and will die, someone will not receive help and his life will be broken. No, we will throw off SMS messages for the treatment of children, and we will not notice how they steal millions from these same children. Seriously about parliament? There is nowhere to put a stamp on these nits. All the same, they will whistle to people and the same will pass, believe me. When I settle down, I will try to shake at least our swamp, if they do not support, I will go into a deep defense (I will kill myself in work), I will only swing for myself, as I did before this time)))
                      9. Michael1950 Offline
                        Michael1950 (Michael) 4 August 2020 01: 41
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                        Well, no - the leader and those close to the kichu, and the rest of them jumped off? I am so more bloodthirsty, especially since they left no choice with their actions. Everyone who took part in this Sabbath should sit down and die (since the 90s, without a statute of limitations and not "looking at merit"), and not only they, but also their loved ones and children.

                        Firstly: since the whole country, the whole society, everyone who has arbitrarily little power and power is affected by the corruption system, you will have to kill several million people. With children - households - 10-15 million. Are you ready to personally kill everyone in your city? These are thousands and thousands of people. And the children ?? Stop talking nonsense.

                        We can't move on if we don't bury these ghouls. I already wrote, these rats will change their clothes in a jump, and will also shit and slow down the country.

                        Can't you understand that these are not some "particularly nasty people" ?? These are the most ordinary people! Such a system made them. And when you kill 10 million, new 10 will take their place. So your technique is not good.

                        I don’t understand why people look at embezzlement as petty pranks?

                        Because most people are ready to appropriate something if they don't get anything for it. Or the risk is minimal.

                        Still, they must understand that these are accomplices in the degradation of our country and stupid accomplices in the murder, if not specific perpetrators. These rats are dragged from everywhere, from medical funds and funds for helping people with disabilities too. And this means that someone will not wait for the operation and will die, someone will not receive help and his life will be broken. No, we will throw off SMS messages for the treatment of children, and we will not notice how they steal millions from these same children.

                        Millions steal from tens of millions - this is the system in this country.

                        Seriously about parliament? There is nowhere to put a stamp on these nits.

                        And you look at the parliaments in other countries? Do you think there are people from a different test? No, there is simply a SEPARATION OF POWER; MEDIA INDEPENDENT OF ONE PERSON; PRACTICALLY INDEPENDENT ON ANY COURT.

                        All the same, they will whistle to people and the same will pass, believe me.

                        There is no other way, you need to change the system. Excellent methods have been developed in the world that allow, with all the selfishness and viciousness of human nature, to force people to obey the general LAW. In those systems, everyone is equal before the law. (Of course, if you have a lot of money, you will hire the best lawyers and they will try to smear you. But in those systems, IT'S NOT A FACT THAT THEM WILL GET IT!

                        When I settle down, I will try to shake at least our swamp, if they do not support it, I will go into a deep defense (I will kill myself in work), I will only swing for myself, as I did before this time)))

                        If you are trying to appeal to the best human feelings, you are deluded and rather stupid. People are the same everywhere - the systems are different. And when several generations live in the right systems, they get used to it from an early age that it is normal, right and necessary to live like this. And children are taught that way. And when people live in such systems as in the USSR (which you idealize), or in modern Russia, different ideas about good and evil are instilled in them ...
                  2. Michael1950 Offline
                    Michael1950 (Michael) 3 August 2020 02: 44
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                    And this is "Driver for Faith" - are you serious?

                    It's a great movie. No "crap". There, even a KGB-schnick got a human face at the end ...
  • Arkharov Offline
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 July 2020 07: 57
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    And where is the slander and historical fiction? Are you from the Moon or Mars?
  • olpin51 Offline
    olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 23 July 2020 05: 29
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    Why is patriotic education in our country primarily military-patriotic?

    And so that there were fewer traitors. Not the way it is now.
  • olpin51 Offline
    olpin51 (Oleg Pinegin) 23 July 2020 05: 33
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    About the destruction of commanders and military specialists before the war, who were traitors to their Motherland and were preparing something. Until we know, it is not available, not declassified.
    1. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 July 2020 07: 58
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      What do you have with your head?
    2. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 July 2020 08: 17
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      Is it your way

      .. the destruction of commanders and military specialists before the war, who were traitors to their Motherland and were preparing something:

      The top echelon of the command of the Red Army in 1936 consisted of 41 people, and exactly the same number - 41 people - were shot on the eve and in the first months of the great war on behalf of the party and government, on behalf of the people. S.S. managed to die a natural death. Kamenev. Only S.M. managed to survive from the old composition. Budyonny, K.E. Voroshilov, L.M. Galler, V.V. Ulrich, B.M. Shaposhnikov. But those who received in 1937-1939 were shot. "Four-punch" military ranks Ya.K. Berzin, M.D. Velikanov, G.P. Kireev, P.I. Smirnov-Svetlovsky, M.P. Frinovsky, N.S. Rozovsky - died in custody. All the top leadership of the army and navy has been completely destroyed. You could start over.
      And here are the figures of the high-ranking commanders of the Red Army shot during the repressions exactly 1937-1938.:
      Of the 5 Marshals of the Soviet Union - 3
      Out of 6 1st rank army commanders - 4
      Out of 13 2st rank army commanders - 10
      Out of 2 army commissars of the 1st rank - 1
      Out of 17 army commissars of the 2st rank - 14
      Of the 91 corpsmen, 54.
      All were traitors and cooking something? !!!
      1. nov_tech.vrn Offline
        nov_tech.vrn (Michael) 23 July 2020 11: 54
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        In fact, judging by the revealed state of combat training at that time, they were judged by the wrong article, many of them.
      2. Magog Offline
        Magog (Gog Magog) 23 July 2020 16: 08
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        Even Hitler and Goebbels realized that Stalin acted correctly, and our agitators keep repeating: beheaded, beheaded, beheaded, tragedy, tragedy, tragedy ...
        Isn't it time to think about this strange circumstance? Before the war, Stalin destroyed brilliant commanders, but ended the war with an indestructible army and a whole ensemble of no less prominent generals and marshals: Rokossovsky, Vasilevsky, Dragunsky, Malinovsky, Govorov, Zhadov, Konev, Vatutin, Chernyakhovsky, Novikov, Kuznetsov, Mali , Antonov, Meretskov, Kreizer, Rotmistrov, Rybalko, Lelyushenko, Katukov, Berzarin, Pukhov, Purkaev, Golovanov. You can’t list them all! And Hitler did not decapitate his army, but ended the war with the defeated state, with the defeated and headless army. So why, then, thousands of scientific works, books and articles have been written about the "headless" Red Army, but no one writes about Hitler's headless army? I would like to know why everyone laughs at Stalin's personnel policy, but no one laughs at Hitler's personnel policy? But the tragedy of the German army is obvious. And it consisted in the fact that Hitler did not prepare for war, did not shoot hundreds of generals before the war, because he lost the war, therefore he was forced to shoot himself.
        The greatness and insignificance of strategists is judged by the results of the war. So let's judge by the end results, let's count chickens in autumn!
        It's good to have trump cards early in the game. But the end is better. Let's assess the situation. By the end of the war, Stalin had a galaxy of outstanding and even brilliant commanders, Hitler had no one. So which one is smarter? And isn't it time to put on a stupid cap on the one who really deserves it?
        1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
          Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 23 July 2020 17: 45
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          Even Hitler and Goebbels realized that Stalin acted correctly ...

          For them, yes, right and profitable ..

          The last leaders of the Air Force were already fired upon during the war. Of the last 5 - 5.
          Of the 12 leaders of the Navy, two survived, who only temporarily held the post. (7 were shot).
          But at 39 it came to the idea that no matter how you shoot, things won't get better. And Kuznetsov was removed after the war.
          And since the 41st, the chiefs of the Air Force were no longer shot. Transferred to the Far East ...

          And in the war, they were forced to release and return the surviving commanders. And none of them betrayed.
          1. Magog Offline
            Magog (Gog Magog) 23 July 2020 18: 42
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            The last leaders of the Air Force were already fired upon during the war.

            Do you mean Rychagov? The theory of which even the Nazis could not confirm. Review the entire war, and there is no example when one successful raid on enemy airfields could solve the problem of winning air supremacy. But we made calculations for this when planning a war.
            1. Michael1950 Offline
              Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 22: 37
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              You can laugh: tryndet endlessly on military forums - and not know about the experience of the Six Day War! When this is how the original task of winning air supremacy was solved.
              1. Magog Offline
                Magog (Gog Magog) 23 July 2020 23: 23
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                WWII experience, what are you talking about? You can laugh at yourself, smart guy!
                1. Michael1950 Offline
                  Michael1950 (Michael) 24 July 2020 00: 13
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                  I, actually, about history of military aviation in general... That by destroying aviation at home airfields, it is possible to solve the problem of winning air supremacy.
                  1. Magog Offline
                    Magog (Gog Magog) 24 July 2020 21: 03
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                    Rychagov, I believe, is the commander of the Air Force (I can not check, because I am writing from a smartphone, not from a computer - therefore I ask you for inaccuracy), at the December meeting of the top command personnel of the Red Army (1940), the topic of his report was just a massive a sudden raid on enemy airfields in the first hours of the war. And the purpose of such a raid is the destruction of enemy aircraft at airfields, and, accordingly, "achieving air supremacy with one blow." Hence, as a consequence, insufficient attention of the leadership of the Air Force and the country to the perfection of training of flight personnel, the development of tactics, etc. The war (WWII) showed the complete inconsistency of such calculations. The maximum effect of such raids did not exceed 7% of equipment losses at airfields. The main losses on our part in the first hours and days of the Hitlerite attack were caused by other reasons (I will not list). There were more than enough reasons to shoot Rychagov ... Your example of the "six-day war" does not work at all here, because this is a different time and level of aviation (you just can't take off from any platform - you need concrete of a given length, others means of destruction). During the war, executions for miscalculations, negligence, and incompetence of the top command staff of the spacecraft did not stop - and this was an excuse. If ordinary soldiers, carrying out orders, "risked their heads", then why should the commanders not have also risked for failures of military operations? You must agree that there is an element of justice and rationality in this ...
                    1. Michael1950 Offline
                      Michael1950 (Michael) 24 July 2020 21: 47
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                      And why did not Hitler shoot massively soldiers, non-commissioned officers and officers in his army? Why didn't he drive his soldiers with their feet to clear the minefields, like Marshal Zhukov? Why were there not millions of those who massively surrendered in the Nazi army, even when fortune turned away from the Germans, in 1943-44-45?
                      1. Magog Offline
                        Magog (Gog Magog) 24 July 2020 21: 59
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                        What questions! Because Hitler did not prepare for the war against the USSR as he should. He did not create reserves (manpower, industrial, military materials, etc.) such as ours. And we were preparing for a world war seriously, so we could afford such huge losses and such "Victory Marshals." I still cannot understand why Stalin did not shoot Zhukov back in 41 ...
                      2. Michael1950 Offline
                        Michael1950 (Michael) 24 July 2020 22: 01
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                        The butcher-Stalin needed a butcher-Zhukov, this was the only way to force the Red Army not to skitter around in 1941 without looking back, but to somehow fight ... Stalin preliminarily brought the people and the army with his massive repressions to the point that millions preferred to surrender to captive than to fight to the last bullet ...
                      3. Magog Offline
                        Magog (Gog Magog) 24 July 2020 22: 20
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                        Overly simplified explanation. As our "propagandists from history" are forced to admit, we did not prepare for a reliable defense of the country against aggression, we underestimated the enemy, the 41st and 42nd years of the war passed in attempts to achieve a strategic advantage with massive strikes, without any special undertakings. At the level of improvisation, "creative search", tk. in peacetime, no one dealt with the tasks of a defensive war. The Stalingrad cauldron was the first pleasant surprise for our leadership, since the main forces were involved in the Western Front - and losses too (the so-called "Rzhevsko-Sychevskaya"). The Nazis also had executions for cowardice in battle, for alarmism and looting, etc. With this they were all right. And the training is on top.
        2. Sergey Latyshev Offline
          Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 23 July 2020 23: 28
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          Theory? I don't know about that. And I have not heard of such calculations.
          But there were 5 Air Force commanders, I remember counting those who were shot. To each on the theory?
          1. Magog Offline
            Magog (Gog Magog) 24 July 2020 21: 10
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            Rychagov was not alone in preparing his reports to the top leadership of the army and the country. The Air Force also has its own institutes and headquarters, and all participants should be responsible for the miscalculations ... What is so outrageous and surprising?
            1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
              Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 25 July 2020 13: 54
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              No matter how much I read the explanations on the executions of commanders, you posted another one, unknown.

              All countries have known about raids on airfields since the 30s, they made calculations, wrote books - this is clearly not new.
              And if the country was in the lead in the 30s in scorers, then by the 40s everything was already clear, after Spain and Mongolia ...
      3. Magog Offline
        Magog (Gog Magog) 23 July 2020 19: 11
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        And none of them betrayed

        Betrayal and incompetence in high command posts can be somehow separated?
        1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
          Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 23 July 2020 23: 30
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          I have not heard that the released commanders who were convicted in the war were then imprisoned or shot for incompetence. All the more massively ...
    3. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 29 July 2020 16: 09
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      Why didn't you mention the author of the quote? Are you shy? VB Rezun, a traitor and a defector, has about the same attitude to history as Fomenko and Nosovsky, only the latter do not cooperate with the "foreign" special services.
  • magma Offline
    magma (Tatyana) 23 July 2020 11: 03
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    Why is patriotic education in our country primarily military-patriotic?

    - because Russia is a military state, and our whole history is inextricably linked with the war and the army.

    Patriotism does not grow out of poverty, out of humiliation and insults, out of contempt for the individual, out of injustice and lies.

    - I completely agree. That is why there is no patriotism in the United States. They can easily exchange their "patriotism" for a few dollars, they just have to offer it.

    1. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 23 July 2020 13: 51
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      Patriotism does not grow out of poverty, out of humiliation and insults, out of contempt for the individual, out of injustice and lies.

      - I completely agree. That is why there is no patriotism in the United States. They can easily exchange their "patriotism" for a few dollars, they just have to offer it.

      And where is all this more, in the USA, or in Russia?
      1. Poverty?
      2. Humiliations and insults?
      3. Contempt for the individual?
      4. Injustice?
      5. Lies?
      1. magma Offline
        magma (Tatyana) 23 July 2020 15: 58
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        Yes, unfortunately, now we have enough of this too. And I can't say where more ...
        Regarding patriotism: I think that the video shows an objective picture. Money cannot be the core, it is only a tool.
  • _AMUHb_ Offline
    _AMUHb_ (_AMUHb_) 23 July 2020 15: 37
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    The rich get their reward during their lifetime ... or does someone think they are immortal? Someone lacks "printed gingerbread" or someone has more of them - which means I will not be a patriot until there is "world justice")) but has she ever been? Hence it follows - answer for yourself and do not bang the "oven", but this one, and that one! Do not judge, but you will not be judged! There is a promise: ... for faith! Fatherland! (read patriotism) and for your friends! .... Nobody canceled, and whoever has enough "gingerbread" to cancel.
  • Michael1950 Offline
    Michael1950 (Michael) 29 July 2020 22: 27
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    Quote: Rashid116
    Did you personally count? Maybe there is reinforced concrete evidence? You've certainly looked through all the cases, haven't you? There is such a question for you, and for others the same: now, if in an adult way, all embezzlers and other criminals in power are developed so that, as then, these scum were promoted by worthy and ideological people, what percentage will sit down for a very long time?

    Wait a minute: it was in 1937-38 that all 620 thousand executed and one and a half million imprisoned "were promoted by worthy and ideological people" ?? Is this a joke? You still don't know why Stalin needed the "Great Terror"? When during these two years of his reign many more people were destroyed than in the other 29 years of his reign ?!