Is criticism of the effectiveness of the "Shell-C1" in Libya justified?

The war in Syria and Libya has convincingly shown that the future lies with shock drones and “swarm of drones” attacks. In both of these regional conflicts, Moscow opposed Ankara, and domestic air defense / missile defense systems had to confront Turkish UAVs as well as self-made terrorist drones. Here are just Russian ZRPK "Shell-C1" showed themselves very differently. So what is the reason?

The Ukrainian edition of Defense Express with undisguised gloating writes on this subject the following:

Turkish Bayraktar TB2 shock drones staged a “true genocide” by the Russian-made advertised Pantsir ZRPK.

Well, frankly speaking, about the "genocide" they turned down. Ukrainian journalists enthusiastically write about the destruction of 30 to 40 Shells, while the Turks themselves recognize only 9: two in Syria and seven in Libya. Having dealt with the scale of the "disaster", let's talk about more specific "claims" to our air defense system.

The main thing is that the complex has a certain “dead zone" behind a mark of 80 degrees vertically, where UAVs or enemy missiles become invisible. And, yes, she is. But this is the property of all anti-aircraft systems, whose radars provide a circular overview in azimuth. They actually form the so-called "funnel", where the aircraft falls out of sight. On the available records, it can be seen that Turkish UAVs strike precisely from its zenith in relation to the SAM system. But this is not a problem personally of the "Shell", supposedly "krivoruko" made by the Russians.

This problem is solved through the combat training of calculations and the effective interaction of different anti-aircraft systems. “Shell-C1” with all its advantages is not a “wunderwaffe,” and one in the field is not a warrior. One complex should insure another, especially for the period of its recharge. It is even better if the air defense system is hiding behind medium-range air defense systems, for example, “Buk”. By the way, it was the latter that thinned the Turkish Bayraktar TB2 well.

But this requires training and combat coordination. The Syrians, trained by our instructors, lost only two anti-aircraft systems in the confrontation with the Turks, and one of them was able to be repaired and put back into operation. The unsettled Libyan army of Haftar lost seven "Shells". One was hit during transportation, the other in the hangar. The latter was generally destroyed by a missile launched from a warship. Finding themselves in more capable hands, the Russian air defense missile defense systems began to confidently shoot down the Bayraktar TB2 and Anka-S drones in Libya. In North Africa, they also “landed” two American Predator UAVs and an L-39 aircraft, destroyed dozens of missiles fired from enemy MLRS. In Syria, the “Shells” are standing in defense of the sky around the Khmeimim air base, fighting off massive attacks by drones of pro-Turkish militants. They also took part in the interception of a massive missile attack launched by the United States against our Syrian allies in 2018.

All this is a very good advertisement for the domestic air defense missile defense system, which proves its benefit in practice. It is not surprising that the “Shell” is not an aerial, but an information attack from potential competitors. So, the Patriot American air defense missile systems, having missed the shelling of cruise missiles and UAVs from the Hussites at oil fields and oil refineries in Saudi Arabia, showed themselves very ingloriously.
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  1. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 14 July 2020 15: 29
    I remember there was an April Fools' joke about killer drones, drones with an attached shotgun. It is possible that if you work in this direction, then you can easily construct similar drones, shooting, or ramming enemy drones. And in air circles, you should develop such a game - aerial battle of drones. And then it will be possible to educate good operators to protect their sky.
    1. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
      Michael1950 (Michael) 17 July 2020 14: 36
      I'm not kidding. Only not a shotgun is attached, but a normal automatic rifle. On a quad or how many copter there. He flew up to the window, the operator took aim and remotely put a bullet in the head of whoever needed it ... It was already a couple of years ago and there are no technical difficulties here ...
  2. Netyn Offline Netyn
    Netyn (Netyn) 14 July 2020 17: 24
    Quote: Bulanov
    drone killers with an attached shotgun.

    And if not a shotgun? What about a 30 mm air cannon and aerial bomb shells?
  3. gorenina91 Online gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 14 July 2020 18: 46
    Is criticism of the effectiveness of the "Shell-C1" in Libya justified?

    - Well, the Shell can shoot down drones; but drones can destroy the shell ...
    - With a big stretch ... - this is "1: 1" ... - maybe this will suit someone ... - Even several UAVs were shot down during the attack on Khmeimim ... - But to shoot down the UAV .. - this is not a very universal occupation for air defense systems ... - Well, in small local wars they ... of course - are needed ...
    - What can the Pantsiri do against the enemy's military aircraft; which will start striking from a distance of 25-30 km ??? - That will be followed by a massive attack of some trashy drones (cheap ... - which are not a pity) ... - well, the Shells will begin to fight this "props" ... - "will completely light up their location" ... - Well, and ... after that, strikes will be worked out against them either from powerful UAVs with air-to-ground missiles, or the aviation will also deliver its strikes ...
    1. Oleg Kushelovsky (Oleg) 15 July 2020 20: 30
      In Syria, the first was destroyed simply by an ATGM from a distance of 23 km. The second is Delilo. These are, in fact, just "improvised means". In Syria, they simply did not start a real fight with the "Shells".
  4. Syoma_67 Offline Syoma_67
    Syoma_67 (Semyon) 14 July 2020 19: 37
    The search for another excuse reminds a crooked horizon, the Israelis are dishonestly fighting, the Syrian crew was at dinner, etc. Justified or not, but there are 9 Armor shells, and I think they are not the last.
    1. gorenina91 Online gorenina91
      gorenina91 (Irina) 15 July 2020 05: 35
      The search for another excuse is reminiscent of a crooked horizon, the Israelis are dishonestly fighting, the Syrian crew was at dinner, etc. Justified or not, but there are 9 Armor shells, and I think they are not the last.

      - Yes ...- exactly so ... - My plus to you ...
      - In the Syrian army, the crew "was at lunch"; in the Russian army at that time ... "they served mass"; and in the Libyan army, the crew at that time "smoked a hookah" ... and so on. etc...
      1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 15 July 2020 08: 27
        Quote: gorenina91
        In the Syrian army, the crew "was at lunch"

        The Turks launched a flock of drones, one million green for each - and then pray. After all, 5 times a day happens. And 39 drones flew away, hell knows where ...
        And the shell is absolutely nothing to do with !!! wassat
        1. Syoma_67 Offline Syoma_67
          Syoma_67 (Semyon) 15 July 2020 19: 25
          And the shell has absolutely nothing to do with it.

          - right, the drones are to blame! Those who allowed them to fly in flocks must be warned in advance.
  5. Oleg Kushelovsky (Oleg) 15 July 2020 20: 04
    The main reason is not a "dead zone", but the inability of this complex to deal with maneuvering targets. Apparently, this will be news to the author of the note.
  6. Oleg Kushelovsky (Oleg) 15 July 2020 20: 35
    supposedly "krivoruko" made by the Russians.

    It was generally a crime to take this machine into service.
  7. Kyctyk ardax Offline Kyctyk ardax
    Kyctyk ardax (Kyctyk ardax) 16 July 2020 11: 38
    The reason is the sloppiness of the advisers.
    Together with Pantsiri, at least 3-5 divisional early warning radars should be delivered from Libya. The armor itself is blind from long-range locators and aircraft in Turkey.
    Only regimental will save - divisional radars.
    Therefore, the fault lies in the bad advice of the advisors.
    They praised the Pantsiri at the Ashuluk training ground so that our people believed in them, as there are no analogues.
    1. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
      Michael1950 (Michael) 17 July 2020 14: 41
      This is only part of the truth ... lol The "Pantsir" radar itself is "so-so", and the command guidance system of missiles is simply a shame in the XNUMXst century. We need an active radar seeker for the missile. And even better - in combination with thermal imaging, as on the "Stanner" rocket ("David's Sling"). But where to get it ?? request The technological base of the Russian military industry, especially after all the sanctions, is in such a deep ... decline that there is no chance of progress.
      1. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
        Bulanov (Vladimir) 17 July 2020 15: 13
        Scientists need to pay more, then breakthroughs will be in science ...
        1. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
          Michael1950 (Michael) 17 July 2020 15: 17
          The technological lag is already so great that huge amounts of money are required to restore the entire complex, all technological chains. There is no this money, there is no this scientific and technological base, there are no necessary scientific personnel, there is no place for them, there is nobody and nothing to train on. And not foreseen - nowhere to take.
          1. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
            Bulanov (Vladimir) 17 July 2020 15: 19
            In the USSR, after the Civil War and World War II, there was no money either, but they could do it, because the cadres decided everything ... Are there really other cadres now?