Forbes: MiG-29 handed over by Russia are useless for Syria


In Damascus, it was hoped that the upgraded MiG-29s received from Russia would help significantly strengthen the worn-out arsenal of the Syrian air force to stop Israeli air strikes. However, the fighters handed over by Moscow turned out to be useless for the Syrians, writes the American magazine Forbes.


On May 30, 2020, SANA announced that a second batch of upgraded MiG-29s had arrived in Syria, which became "even more efficient." At the same time, it was not reported when the first batch arrived and in what quantity. It was only specified that the fighters were delivered to Khmeimim, and then distributed to different bases on the territory of the country. So it is still unknown how many MiG-29 Syria received.

Information about the “second delivery” coincided with discovery in Syria, the MiG-29 without identification marks, which, presumably, were intended for the LNA Field Marshal Khalifa Haftar, Russia's ally in Libya. However, it remained unclear whether Moscow and Damascus were trying to simply disguise the sending of fighters to the North African country with their talks about the delivery of the Syrian Air Force MiG-29.

Over the past years, Syrian air defense failed to prevent a single Israeli strike. Tel Aviv lost only one F-16 in February 2018, after an attack on the Tiyas military base (the crew ejected), and in October of the same year, Syrian air defense accidentally shot down an electronic reconnaissance aircraft Il-20 of the Russian Air Force, killing 15 Russians.

At the same time, Israeli pilots, as you know, are better prepared, and their aircraft have better electronics. Moreover, recent videos from Syria clearly demonstrate the deplorable state of the SAA after nine years of war.




However, if Damascus received a small group of upgraded MiG-29s, this will not change the situation. Even if they are armed with formidable Russian medium-range R-77 guided missiles, they cannot become an obstacle to Tel Aviv’s unpunished actions.
Ctrl Enter

Noticed oshЫbku Highlight text and press. Ctrl + Enter

221 comment
Information

Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.
I have an account? Sign in

  1. gorenina91 Online
    gorenina91 (Irina) 7 July 2020 16: 18
    -5
    • 1
    • 6
    However, if Damascus received a small group of upgraded MiG-29s, this will not change the situation. Even if they are armed with formidable Russian guided missiles R-77 medium-range air-to-air missiles with a single-pulse Doppler active homing radar.

    - And how will the Syrians use these "modernized MiG-29s" ...- to fly into foreign territory and resist the attacks of the Israeli Air Force there ???
    - Yes, then they would have put Syria better ...- a few squadrons of MiG-21s ... - The Syrian Air Force will have enough of these fighter interceptors ... - They even Tomahawks, "if something happens ..." will be able to intercept ...
    1. Binder Offline
      Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 17: 00
      -3
      • 5
      • 8
      In fact, the Syrians could stop the Israeli attacks in a very simple way - to expel the Iranians and their proxies from their territory, to liquidate Iranian bases and warehouses. In this case, not a single Israeli air force plane would attack the targets on the territory of the SAR; raids would stop immediately.
      1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 7 July 2020 17: 12
        +4
        • 8
        • 4
        Quote: Bindyuzhnik
        In fact, the Syrians could stop the Israeli attacks in a very simple way

        It will not change anything. Americans / Israelis need the Kurdistan-coast oil pipeline to rob oil. With fuel trucks now a complete failure. Indeed, through Turkey and Jordan, gratuitous oil went to Israel. ISIS and waged war with the Kurds and Assad - no one else. PMC Obama, who also wanted kerosene (like the Bush clan).
        The Syrians can’t attack Israel - in principle, he knows how to beat planes on take-off. They do not need a second front yet.
        Israel stands behind ISIS - pinned to the border, the Ishilovites through Israel left for Jordan. Leaving mountains of Bulgarian weapons and complete field hospitals of American scout companies.
        So it’s not about the Iranians. The point is the pipeline.
        1. Binder Offline
          Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 17: 33
          -6
          • 2
          • 8
          Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
          It will not change anything.

          You are mistaken - the only reason for Israeli attacks on Iranian targets in Syria is their potential threat to the security of Israel, there are no other reasons and cannot be. While there were no Iranian military installations on Syrian territory, there were no Israeli attacks.
          1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
            Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 7 July 2020 19: 08
            +3
            • 6
            • 3
            Quote: Bindyuzhnik
            The only reason Israeli attacks on Iranian targets in Syria are their potential threat to Israeli security

            The only reason Israel attacks the Syrian army and Shiite units is to prevent ISIS from being squeezed out of eastern Syria, from where stolen oil is sent to Israel.
            Remember the sanctions against banks working with ISIS money? 2 billion, by the way, in 2014. ISIS was not a threat on the border with Israel - Israel did not strike a single blow to ISIS. Inflicted, in battle, only for Assad loyal to the Syrians. Israel did not allow the Syrians to launch airstrikes on ISIS, until Russian planes appeared, ISIS were protected from the air. Israel and the USA.
            That is, Israel is the rear logistics system of ISIS, even now, which Israel protects. In American interests. Shells the airport, even in the setting of a civilian airliner.
            1. Binder Offline
              Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 20: 42
              -7
              • 2
              • 9
              You, dear, write complete nonsense. The tasks of the Israelis in the former. Syria - the fight against Iranian expansion, ISIS did not threaten Israel, and therefore was not subjected to attacks by the IDF.
              1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 7 July 2020 21: 52
                +4
                • 7
                • 3
                Killing citizens of another country by troops without declaring war is a crime. And do not nod to Iran’s expansion. Iran on the territory of Israel did not strike a single blow. And striking the forces destroying ISIS is a crime. For which they have not yet asked. But the sky of Lebanon for Israel can be closed by Russian air defense. Russia has already withdrawn from an informal agreement on conflict prevention. And it may turn out that Israeli aviation will begin to jam the caliber. Israel is painfully zealous on the side of ISIS. Maybe not of his own free will, the pawn of the United States, but he does crimes without justification.
                1. Binder Offline
                  Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 22: 01
                  -6
                  • 2
                  • 8
                  Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
                  Lebanon’s skies for Israel can be closed by Russian air defense.

                  Russian air defense is not even able to protect Khmeimim from homemade drones attacks launched by the barmales, and you are dreaming.

                  Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
                  Israeli aviation will begin to jam jam calibers

                  Since when did the Caliber become an air defense system?
                  1. unholyknight Offline
                    unholyknight (UnhloyKnight) 8 July 2020 13: 03
                    +3
                    • 5
                    • 2
                    And the proofs about "unable to protect" will be? So far, all attacks by these drones have ended the same way - bearded men have been thinly trimmed.
                2. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 9 July 2020 00: 25
                  -4
                  • 1
                  • 5
                  Is this for Donbass mentioned here? Well, about killing without declaring war .....
                  1. Crimean Connecting Rod (Eugene) 9 July 2020 06: 36
                    +1
                    • 1
                    • 0
                    All crimes of sharovarnyh terrorists are recorded, Ukrainian killers can not escape responsibility.
                    1. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 11 July 2020 10: 36
                      -3
                      • 0
                      • 3
                      Whose Crimea?
                      1. 321 Offline
                        321 (321) 11 July 2020 14: 46
                        +2
                        • 2
                        • 0
                        Quote: Alexey Semenenko
                        Whose Crimea?

                        - The main thing is that not yours, but the rest of the details, why should your brain be weighed down? hi
                      2. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 11 July 2020 15: 13
                        -2
                        • 0
                        • 2
                        Bring this thought to Sberbank of Russia. And then he thinks otherwise .....
                      3. 321 Offline
                        321 (321) 11 July 2020 15: 16
                        +1
                        • 1
                        • 0
                        Quote: Alexey Semenenko
                        Bring this thought to Sberbank of Russia. And then he thinks otherwise .....

                        - and why gather information that Crimea is not yours? You solve your problems with Sberbank or other banks yourself - why do I need this? hi
              2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 10 July 2020 19: 59
                +2
                • 3
                • 1
                Quote: Alexey Semenenko
                Well, about killing without declaring war .....

                Well, the right-wingers wanted to have fun in the Donbass, since the land was leased to Biden, the population was outlawed. And have fun. Now pravosek, having got to the territory of Russia (I really want to eat), immediately sits down, and for a long time.
                By the way, the Armed Forces of Ukraine for $ 1000 sells seats at the forefront - to shoot people. Poles, Americans, Spaniards are falling on the line of demarcation. And when they are felled, the friends of the hunters are perplexed - what did they pay for? We should shoot it, but not for us !!!
                1. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 11 July 2020 10: 38
                  -3
                  • 0
                  • 3
                  Again.
                  The murder of citizens of another country, on the territory of this country, without declaring war on this country ... is this a crime or not?
                  "Just nod" (c)
                  1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 11 July 2020 10: 50
                    +3
                    • 3
                    • 0
                    Donbass is not Ukrainian territory? And the people there are not Ukrainians?
                    This is only the territory that refused to accept the coup in Ukraine. For which the putschists decided to destroy the rebellious population. At the same time, hand over to Biden for commercial activity a clean, without population, land. But here - HORROR !!! - Ukrainians of Donetsk and Lugansk were not INDIANS. They did not agree to move to a reservation or to exile. And pravoseki, like true Mohicans, began to wet the rebellious Iroquois-Donbass.
                    True, the pravoseki never knew how the alliance with the Americans ended for the Mohicans.
                  2. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 11 July 2020 11: 00
                    -3
                    • 0
                    • 3
                    Donbass, this is Ukraine. Some areas of Donetsk and Lugansk regions are temporarily occupied. By whom? And those who have money are considered rubles. And the owners are sitting in Moscow.
                    Separate organisms there, took up arms, and, not being in the ranks of the Armed Forces and the police of the host country, (IAF), are armed resistance that there is terrorism. Many of them are NOT citizens of Ukraine, because they have passports of the Russian Federation, are subject to deportation to their homeland. Where, no doubt, they will be convicted under many articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
                  3. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
                    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 11 July 2020 11: 10
                    +3
                    • 3
                    • 0
                    Quote: Alexey Semenenko
                    Some areas of Donetsk and Lugansk regions are temporarily occupied. By whom?

                    You are again inaccurate. This territory of Ukraine is leased to the ex-vice president of the United States for 50 years, and the rebellious territories are the only unoccupied lands of Ukraine.
                    The militia / police of Ukraine, the appointment of governors - everything is controlled by the American embassy.
                    Remember the resignation of Kolomoisky?
                    From President Poroshenko, the billionaire Kolomoisky, the governor, came out with the words “I won’t leave anywhere!”, And an hour later the millionaire Kolomoisky, a private person, silently left the American embassy, ​​got on a plane, and flew to Miami. Leaving Biden and Nuland their entire oil and energy complex in Ukraine. Americans are able to inspire the Indians ...
                  4. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 11 July 2020 11: 11
                    -2
                    • 0
                    • 2
                    The nod is counted.
                  5. 321 Offline
                    321 (321) 11 July 2020 12: 12
                    0
                    • 0
                    • 0
                    Also here the discoverer of truth was revealed bully
                  6. The comment was deleted.
                  7. The comment was deleted.
                  8. The comment was deleted.
                  9. The comment was deleted.
          2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
            Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 11 July 2020 12: 49
            +3
            • 3
            • 0
            Quote: Alexey Semenenko
            The nod is counted.

            No, comrade. Surrendered to the Americans - let the Americans feed them. Naftogaz (property of Nuland) will grunt, the pumping contract will become invalid - then you will feel what they are, American interests. Run away from Ukraine in search of food - you will not be allowed back to Biden Ranch. I swear to BlackWater (who is now an Academy, and guards American power plants and breweries in Ukraine).
          3. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 11 July 2020 12: 59
            -3
            • 0
            • 3
            Surrendered, so surrendered. The main thing is that you did not give up to us. Kazakhstan is already fencing itself off from you in Latin letters, and you are looking for all the brothers under the microscope.
            And this. Gas transit, you can even stop tomorrow. We will only be FOR, Dinkorp swear.
          4. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
            Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 11 July 2020 15: 18
            +3
            • 3
            • 0
            Quote: Alexey Semenenko
            The main thing is that you did not give up to us.

            Well, eat lace underwear. In dreams, we surrendered to you, on Abrams we are already rolling out on Red Square. The sixth armored hoisted regiment is being drilled and rolled into cutlets.
            But at the same time, Ukrainians in Ukraine are now nothing. The owners of the factories, oil pipelines, restaurants are Americans. All that Russia transfers for transit immediately goes overseas to Baptist and Scientology funds.
            To eat in Russia. Here, they began to deliver sprats to Latvia. Beef to Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Soy and sunflower oil in the USA. Europe was offended by the limitation of the supply of bread ... Tea, not the last to tear myself away! request
          5. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 12 July 2020 04: 58
            -1
            • 0
            • 1
            Well, that reminded. I’ll go to the Gebite Commissariat and get my three hundred pieces of silver for my donated Donbass. And then the dollar will be canceled in the morning, and I am like that, with bucks ... a mess.
          6. 321 Offline
            321 (321) 12 July 2020 07: 55
            0
            • 0
            • 0
            Quote: Alexey Semenenko
            Well, that reminded. I’ll go to the Gebite Commissariat, I’ll get mine ....

            Confused again, the amount due to you is only thirty. bully
          7. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 12 July 2020 09: 29
            -1
            • 0
            • 1
            Inflation. Plus compensation for two Donetsk slaves.
          8. 321 Offline
            321 (321) 12 July 2020 10: 44
            0
            • 0
            • 0
            Quote: Alexey Semenenko
            Inflation. Plus compensation for two Donetsk slaves.

            Again you mixed everything up - you are neither slaves nor everything else! So you fly over ... bully
          9. The comment was deleted.
          10. The comment was deleted.
          11. The comment was deleted.
    2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
      Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 12 July 2020 13: 59
      +3
      • 3
      • 0
      Quote: Alexey Semenenko
      Inflation. Plus compensation for two Donetsk slaves.

      You have already been issued cookies. 50 years in advance.
      After all, how did Manhattan become English? They gave the Indians cookies, gave beads - they signed papers, laughing - well, the white ones are dumb, they won’t take the earth away! But it turned out that the Indians should not step on the land of a white man.
      In Ukraine: did Biden give cookies? Gave. Boats decommissioned, as a bead, received? Got. Have you signed the paper? Signed up. So get out of Biden’s land. Otherwise it will be, as with the Indians of Manhattan - they will shoot for the violation of property rights.
      So, go ahead, Alexei, faster and further, with American property! At my own expense and without any compensation. For every year you LENGE 30 pieces of silver.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  2. Crimean Connecting Rod (Eugene) 12 July 2020 16: 57
    +3
    • 3
    • 0
    Alexey Semenenko, but who will pay you? They will spit another pan of nonsense about the “Russian-Ukrainian war” in the pan, you will rub yourself and go on to ride. And for free, spitting on propaganda, and, of course, all in debt and without a fellow countryman.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. 321 Offline
    321 (321) 11 July 2020 15: 22
    +1
    • 1
    • 0
    Quote: Alexey Semenenko
    Let's make a mark. Your comrades, in a ravine near Voronezh they finish a horse ....

    - Well, they don’t let you into Tambov’s place before your brothers, so don’t worry so much, and such “brothers” as you really don’t need, and comment on your opuses about searches under the microscope - we need your “thoughts” " what for? hi
  5. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 12 July 2020 05: 00
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    Right! Do not let.
    And I was so eager, so begged, to see my brothers! So no! They got up a wall, and they say - it’s impossible, in the area of ​​foot and mouth disease!
  6. antikaschey Offline
    antikaschey (Modest Matveevich) 14 July 2020 10: 35
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    Donbass you lost, this is a fact. And Venezuela is yours, no longer a state. And for the inhabitants of Donbass, you don’t make a decision, your land is not there, there can only be your grave.
  • 321 Offline
    321 (321) 11 July 2020 12: 09
    +2
    • 2
    • 0
    Quote: Alexey Semenenko
    Is this for Donbass mentioned here? Well, about killing without declaring war .....

    Have forgotten how to read or understand the meaning of what you read?
    It was clearly written there - “troops” - but so far all the troops found in Ukraine seem to have ended in one department, and even then - for what reason were there, but when you were interested in such trifles, right?
    So, before you call someone to pull a straw out of your eye, first remove the log from your eye. bully
    1. Alexey Semenenko (Alexey Semenenko) 11 July 2020 13: 01
      -2
      • 0
      • 2
      The troops are composed of military personnel.
      I, sinful thing, at one time commanded a consolidated company. We, - are, here, and the regiment is farther, in the PAP. So were we troops, or not?
      It’s hard on military topics to communicate with shuttles ....
      1. 321 Offline
        321 (321) 11 July 2020 15: 02
        0
        • 1
        • 1
        Quote: Alexey Semenenko
        The troops are composed of military personnel.
        I, sinful thing, at one time commanded a consolidated company. We, - are, here, and the regiment is farther, in the PAP. So were we troops, or not?
        It’s hard on military topics, talking with shtafirki ....

        And don’t even try to fill in here that you at least commanded something, but even this is NOT the main thing - for many years now the Russian troops have been searching for Ukraine in Ukraine, and you still haven’t found a squad about those strayed ones, even you were already tired repeat, you better remember how many high school students entered the Russian territory?
        But you had problems with arithmetic, knowledge and logic, are and will be.
        PS Tell your bullshit about shtafirovki to your cat, he can believe you, I have shoulder straps, though no reserve, but no matter how much more yours, don’t even ask for the rest of the details, you don’t need to know this - what if you are a spy?
        PPS And your PDP in what territory was? Shpak you, and there - write about military affairs. negative bully
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  • Michael1950 Offline
    Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 09: 12
    -4
    • 2
    • 6
    Well, what are you talking about? Oil in the world market - heaps, just nowhere to go! And not darling.

    That is, Israel is the rear logistics system of ISIS, even now, which Israel protects. In American interests.

    Good to carry a blizzard, anal-itek, the remains of ISIS stick out in the Idlib zone- where is Idlib and where is Israel ?!
    1. boriz Offline
      boriz (boriz) 8 July 2020 10: 44
      +1
      • 4
      • 3
      Oil in the world market - heaps, just nowhere to go! And not darling.

      Countries striving to play an active role on the world stage are struggling to get sources of hydrocarbons controlled only by them (and they wanted to spit on green energy). Because today you bought oil, but tomorrow they will not sell it to you. Neither cheap nor expensive.
      Look at Turkey. She is now sitting on gas pipes (but the gas is alien there, they will shut off the valve at any time or blow up the pipe), oil (you say yourself) can be bought as much as you like. And she climbed, first to Syria, and when Putin broke it there - already to Libya.

      ... the remains of ISIS stick out in the Idlib zone - where is Idlib and where is Israel ?!

      The remains of ISIS where they (without any advertising) sent the sponsor.
      Now they are already in Afghanistan and the former Central Asia, hundreds of "sleeping" cells. In Turkmenistan, the border with Afghanistan is purely symbolic.
      And in Syria there is no complete control. Armed units in one place, and militants with small arms and RPGs can be sent anywhere.
    2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
      Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 11 July 2020 10: 57
      +3
      • 3
      • 0
      Quote: Michael1950
      the remains of ISIS stick out in the Idlib zone

      Assad controls 55% of Syria. The rest is ISIS, transferred to the moderate opposition camp for quality human meat to the Obama table.
      Remember taking Racca? The Kurds stormed the city for several months to no avail, but as Assad's troops approached the city, ONE NIGHT American flags were hoisted over all ISIS fortifications and American armored vehicles appeared. The United States saved its mercenaries.
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 22: 01
    +6
    • 7
    • 1
    You will go so far. Potential danger for Russia is NATO bases in the Baltic states and Poland. As well as missile defense systems in Romania. According to your logic, there is no reason not to attack them.
    Potential and Real Dangers are not the same thing.
    1. Binder Offline
      Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 22: 11
      -5
      • 2
      • 7
      NATO bases do not threaten the Russian Federation, and members of the North Atlantic community do not proclaim the destruction of Russia as their priority goal.
      1. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 22: 16
        +3
        • 6
        • 3
        Even as they threaten and as they proclaim. You are simply unfamiliar with the goals of NATO and the statements of politicians and political scientists.
        1. Binder Offline
          Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 22: 45
          -5
          • 2
          • 7
          I have never heard that any of the real political figures in Europe or North America said that his country aims to wipe Russia off the face of the earth, and Iranian political leaders and senior representatives of the power structures of the Islamic Republic of Iran constantly voice this intention.
          1. Bakht Offline
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 22: 51
            +3
            • 6
            • 3
            Well, the division of Russia ... it has been voiced many times and not by the very last persons. If you have not heard, then I can’t help. The encirclement of Russia by NATO bases is not a fiction, but a fact. In such a situation, Israel would immediately launch a preemptive strike. But you will never admit it.
            ---
            You know, this is not very interesting to me. I wanted to know the answer to a specific question, but I have to write a lot to go into the details of the conflict. At the next missile attack, just re-read this controversy and say that everything is in order. You have mutual love. So strengthen the defense, but this is not a solution to the problem.
            Think which border is safer? 1000 km between France and Spain or 10 km between Israel and Syria? And how it helps the security of Israel.
            1. Binder Offline
              Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 22: 58
              -5
              • 1
              • 6
              Quote: Bakht
              which border is safer? 1000 km between France and Spain or 10 km between Israel and Syria?

              I can say with confidence that if Israel bordered on Spain, France, or, say, Switzerland, then its borders would also be completely safe. I wish you hello! hi
              1. Bakht Offline
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 23: 03
                +1
                • 4
                • 3
                If Israel pursued the same policy with France, Spain or, say, Switzerland, its borders would also NOT be safe.

                You didn’t get the point.
              2. Binder Offline
                Binder (Miron) 8 July 2020 04: 13
                -5
                • 1
                • 6
                Quote: Bakht
                You didn’t get the point.

                No, dear. You have not grasped the essence of the problem.
              3. Bakht Offline
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 15: 57
                +3
                • 5
                • 2
                The essence of the problem is not that Israel is delivering preemptive strikes or that Syria does not recognize the state of Israel. The essence of the problem in the war. And it has no positive result for Israel. You can refer to the current position as much as you like. But it is not eternal. The Roman infantry of 3-4 centuries had no equal in the world. Roman martial art was the best in the world. But Rome fell under the blow of barbarians who have neither one nor the other.
                I draw conclusions based on historical facts. There are moments that undermine any military and economic power of any state.
                ----
                What amazes me in people. And on this site especially. They are offered a way out of the situation. What about Ukraine, what about the Middle East. They offer a peaceful existence. They choose the path of war and are firmly convinced that they will win. In one or two, or even ten battles, perhaps. The last battle these people will lose and lose their country.
                As the British said (not verbatim, so I quote in my presentation)

                The British lose all battles except the last. The Germans win all battles except the last. With the last battle, the outcome of the war is decided.
              4. Binder Offline
                Binder (Miron) 8 July 2020 21: 27
                -2
                • 1
                • 3
                Quote: Bakht
                What amazes me in people. And on this site especially. They are offered a way out of the situation. What about Ukraine, what about the Middle East. They offer a peaceful existence.

                Suffer from megalomania? Where can we, the natives of Ukraine and the Middle East, understand the ideas of such an enlightened mind. lol And there has never been and will never be a peaceful existence under the conditions of the Kremlin, negative somehow we ourselves will solve our problems.
              5. Bakht Offline
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 21: 30
                +1
                • 2
                • 1
                I suffer from pragmatism. And the conditions of the Kremlin are your fantasies. These are recommendations of the Sakharov Center for Human Rights.
                Uninteresting with you ....
              6. Binder Offline
                Binder (Miron) 8 July 2020 21: 42
                -4
                • 1
                • 5
                Quote: Bakht
                Uninteresting with you ....

                And how am I sadly and dreary to communicate with a man who is blinded and ignorant of BV issues, who naively considers himself a major specialist in what he has no idea about. Tell me, dear sir, if in Russia there are such wise and enlightened citizens, then why is she in such a deep anus? I think that the Russians should first of all restore order at home, and only then try to solve the problems of regions far from Russia, where no one called them ... request
              7. Bakht Offline
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 21: 49
                +4
                • 5
                • 1
                I live in Azerbaijan. And ... I would not say that in the anus, but something dissatisfied, of course. And why do you think that Russia is in this very anus? Do you think so or want it?
                I do not consider myself omniscient. I just read a lot, inquisitive by nature. He traveled a lot, in fact, around the world behind him. There are many acquaintances and friends in different countries.
                Nobody solves your problems. Is Russia interfering in Israeli affairs? Helps Syria - that's right. But what does Russia and Israel have to do with it? Here your like-minded people wrote such nonsense. I half didn’t even think it necessary to answer. And as I was convinced, some do not even know the basics of the issue.

                I already said that I was interested in a specific utilitarian issue. Is rocket attack on Israeli territory legitimate or not? Your answer is Yes, they are legitimate because countries are at war.

                Everything else is just a side noise. Which personally gave me nothing. I heard your arguments many years ago. Some of my Jewish friends respond in the same way. Carbon copy.
              8. Binder Offline
                Binder (Miron) 8 July 2020 22: 08
                -3
                • 1
                • 4
                Quote: Bakht
                I live in Azerbaijan.

                You managed to surprise me - the Azerbaijanis were always friendly to the Jews, and here the outright hatred of Israel and its people. winked

                Quote: Bakht
                Why do you think that Russia is in this very anus?

                According to objective indicators.

                Quote: Bakht
                Is Russia interfering in Israeli affairs?

                Who will let her? bully

                Quote: Bakht
                Helps Syria - that's right.

                It helps not Syria, but a bloody dictator who is fighting against his fellow citizens.
              9. Bakht Offline
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 22: 14
                +4
                • 5
                • 1
                As for the bloody dictator - this is a stamp. And who is fighting against his people there is also a moot point. The transformation of another country into a caliphate is definitely not in the interests of everyone around. So Assad is fighting, rather, against the Barmalei, who are supported by the States and indirectly ... Israel.
                The most interesting thing is that I am not an enemy of Israel. I've told. In this matter for me, your outstanding general and politician Yitzhak Rabin serves as an example. But you (not you personally, but Israel) did not like him. He was called a traitor and killed. Verily, "there is no prophet in his own country."
                ----
                We will again enter into a meaningless argument. I am convinced (like Rabin) that there are no impregnable fortresses. There were no such examples in history. And to live in a besieged fortress is to lose sooner or later. So I'm on the side of Israel. It’s just that we see the final goal and the path to it differently. You think that power is everything. I do not think so.
              10. Binder Offline
                Binder (Miron) 9 July 2020 04: 42
                -2
                • 0
                • 2
                Quote: Bakht
                prominent general and politician Yitzhak Rabin. But you (not you personally, but Israel) did not like him. He was called a traitor and killed.

                I, like all sane Israeli citizens, are against political killings, but I. Rabin has earned the death penalty since the days of Altalena.
              11. Crimean Connecting Rod (Eugene) 9 July 2020 06: 41
                0
                • 1
                • 1
                I, like all sane Israeli citizens, are against political killings

                Good. Israel is the No. 1 terrorist in the Middle East.
              12. Binder Offline
                Binder (Miron) 9 July 2020 17: 52
                0
                • 1
                • 1
                Quote: Crimean Connecting Rod
                Smishno.

                Brother, you read the ABC book, but you speak out about international relations. That's where the laugh is! laughing
              13. Crimean Connecting Rod (Eugene) 9 July 2020 19: 41
                0
                • 1
                • 1
                I didn’t ask you what to speak about on the Russian site.
              14. Binder Offline
                Binder (Miron) 9 July 2020 20: 08
                0
                • 1
                • 1
                I didn’t ask - your problems.
              15. 321 Offline
                321 (321) 11 July 2020 12: 23
                -1
                • 0
                • 1
                You decide yours first. negative hi
              16. Binder Offline
                Binder (Miron) 11 July 2020 13: 09
                +1
                • 1
                • 0
                God willing.
              17. 321 Offline
                321 (321) 11 July 2020 15: 03
                -1
                • 0
                • 1
                Hope for God, but don’t be fooled.
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 06: 59
    +1
    • 1
    • 0
    How did Rabin deserve the death penalty? It was late yesterday. You at least look at the chronology.
    I. Rabin stopped Intifada-1, decided to make peace, and moved in this direction. When did Oslo sign and when did Intifada 2 start? And didn’t Netanyahu continue the same path? And he met with Arafat and signed something there.
    I. Rabin was killed by the "party of war" in Israel. I already said - Do you think that power is everything? You are wrong.
    But arguing is pointless. To understand which way is better, a person should step back a couple of steps and think a little. Did the murder of I. Rabin make the situation better for the Jews? "Oslo's victims" is not the fault of I. Rabin, but those who killed him.
  • Binder Offline
    Binder (Miron) 9 July 2020 17: 58
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    Quote: Bakht
    How did Rabin deserve the death penalty?

    I clearly expressed myself - by the shooting of the Altalena vessel in 1948. Such a person could not be allowed to come close to the leadership of the state.
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 19: 03
    +2
    • 2
    • 0
    This is your internal showdown. But he proved himself to be the best chief of the General Staff. So his merits are higher than the roof.
    But again, this is an internal showdown.
  • Binder Offline
    Binder (Miron) 9 July 2020 19: 13
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    Quote: Bakht
    he proved himself to be the best chief of the General Staff.

    For the first time I meet a similar assessment of the activities of I. Rabin in this post. winked
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 19: 17
    +2
    • 2
    • 0
    There is such an opinion. I did not know the details of Altalena very well. Now I am collecting information. The order to destroy the ship was given by Ben Gurion. Does he also deserve the death penalty?
  • Binder Offline
    Binder (Miron) 9 July 2020 19: 57
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    Ben-Gurion was a natural Bolshevik, and his methods of dealing with political opponents were purely Bolshevik, which is why he gave the order to destroy the ship and kill. It's not about him.
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 20: 11
    +2
    • 2
    • 0
    I am comparing dates and different sources now. Whether Ben Gurion was a Bolshevik or not was not important. It is important that he was one of the founders of the state of Israel.
    I am not trying to delve into the internal political conflicts of various parties and movements. But June 1948 is a critical moment in the history of Israel. Jerusalem is on the verge of falling. There are no weapons. And we need to get around the UN embargo. It would be necessary to look for information about the French destroyer near Altalena. But these are the details. Ben Gurion apparently gave (I do not insist, I write apparently) a completely correct order. The presence of various paramilitary groups just killed the Arabs. Ben Gurion could not allow this. What was lost on Altalen was more than offset by deliveries through other channels. And these deliveries were many times higher than what Altalena was carrying.
    I believe that we should first of all talk about the order of Ben Gurion. Rabin obeyed the order and, most likely, Israel was lucky that there was a man who took responsibility. According to population surveys, 74% of Jews consider the shooting of Altalena an unfortunate but necessary fact.
    This historical fact is now also being intensely discussed and discussed. This is a matter of serviceman subordination to command orders. I. Rabin complied with the order of his commander. I don’t see anything criminal here.
    If Ben Gurion (he) were not to be destroyed by Altalena, Israel would have received a complete arms embargo. Which, incidentally, was prohibited under the terms of the armistice. But UN commissioners welcomed this move by Israel and turned a blind eye to illegal arms transfers. Take a look at the situation from this point of view.
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 19: 19
    +2
    • 2
    • 0
    Yes, I was wrong. Not the best, but victorious.

    Rabin is still called the "victorious NHS" (chief of the General Staff). After all, it was he who reorganized the Israeli army, developed plans for military operations that surprised the world during the June battles.

    Golda Meir also praised him. Was she mistaken too?
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 19: 31
    +2
    • 2
    • 0
    I did not get deep into the political contradictions of the groups. It takes too much time. But Jewish electronic Wikipedia gives the following description:

    Neither Ben-Gurion nor Rabin ever expressed remorse over the decision to fire at Altalena. But Professor Yehuda Lapidot cites the following episode: when Begin entered the coalition cabinet of 1967, Ben-Gurion told him that if he had known Begin earlier as he now knew, “the face of history would have been different.”

    Rabin considered the episode with Altalena to be one of the most difficult in his life, but he remained confident in the absolute correctness of the decision made by Ben-Gurion: “And woe to the state of Israel, if Ben-Gurion did not do what he did. There is only one army - and that is in the Israel Defense Forces. ”
    -----
    Levi Eshkol said, reporting to his party on the results of the day: “I had a feeling of a holiday. We crushed the head of this viper. When the smoke began to rise above the ship, for some reason I saw before me the ruins of the Bastille. " Ben-Gurion wrote in his diary: “Ezel Day. What was about to happen happened in the end. ”
  • Binder Offline
    Binder (Miron) 9 July 2020 20: 03
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    All these Israeli leftist politicians are of one berry field. It is a great happiness and good for Israel that today the left has lost most of its position in politics and other forces have taken their place.
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 20: 13
    +2
    • 2
    • 0
    I do not agree with this. But we discussed this and this is your opinion. Your way. In my opinion, erroneous, but this is your business. I do not follow the political struggle, even within my own country. I look at the pragmatism of decisions. And the personalities do not bother me much.
  • Binder Offline
    Binder (Miron) 9 July 2020 20: 07
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    Rabin was never an outstanding army figure, and in the victories of the Six Day War he did not deserve it. And Golda was perhaps the most decent person of her generation, but she spoke decently of the stocks ...
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 20: 14
    +1
    • 1
    • 0
    You just had a biased opinion. Any person has run into a lot of stocks in his life. The end result is more important.
    Well, I will look for the opinion of the Israeli military about the talents of I. Rabin. In the end, he studied at the agrarian. But still, I have repeatedly met assessments of his military capabilities. You just need to search.
  • 321 Offline
    321 (321) 11 July 2020 12: 20
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    Quote: Bakht
    Uninteresting with you ....

    And how am I sadly and dreary to communicate with a man who is blinded and ignorant of BV issues, who naively considers himself a major specialist in what he has no idea. Tell me, dear sir, if in Russia there are such wise and enlightened citizens, then why is she in such a deep anus? I thinkthat the Russians should first of all restore order at home, and only then try to solve the problems of regions far from Russia, where no one called them. request

    What other instructions will be, to whom and what to do? bully
    And to you from the couch, it doesn’t matter where, of course, you can better see what is happening in Russia, right?
    They have already written to you and not only to you that your “knowledge” of problems only takes you further and further, and examples and analogies from history have given you - well, your choice, only then do not moan ...
    And the jokes, well, almost - to you, and not only they have already brought you here, about the elusive Joe - you think that this does not concern you, or simply do not understand - yes, this is your problem ...
    PS As for "where no one called them" - about the regions - first bother to study the materiel.
  • Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 14 July 2020 11: 37
    +1
    • 1
    • 0
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    And there has never been and will never be a peaceful existence under the conditions of the Kremlin,

    For your information, the Kremlin has squeezed the creation of the state of Israel. The Anglo-French world that controlled the Middle East was strongly opposed. Even now, after 70 years, Palestine exists solely through the efforts of France and England, which maintain the Hamas administration in Gaza and the West Bank. 500 million euros annually. About the same number of Turks toss up.
    You are being kept by the Americans. Palestinians are Europeans. Whoever gets bored first will lose.
  • Michael1950 Offline
    Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 09: 19
    -4
    • 0
    • 4
    In such a situation, Israel would immediately launch a preemptive strike.

    In Tatarstan ?!

    Think which border is safer? 1000 km between France and Spain or 10 km between Israel and Syria? And how it helps the security of Israel.

    Why so little ?? There the border is "somewhat" longer, I managed 65 kilometers:

    https://s8.drugiegoroda.ru/2/238/23778-Golan_heights_rel89C-595x1024.jpg
    1. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 15: 50
      +1
      • 4
      • 3
      I say ... Logic is bad, analytic thinking is bad. Abstract concepts are generally beyond (the mind). Comparative analysis .... I'm afraid they don’t know such words at all.
  • Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 8 July 2020 09: 21
    +3
    • 6
    • 3
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    NATO bases do not threaten the Russian Federation

    Tell it to Hussein and Milosevic. As soon as the possibility of unpunished destruction arises, everything will be launched - from napalm and dioxin to nuclear charges.
    By the way, Israel just demonstrates criminal activity against the background of impunity. Fifty Iskanders at Assad will instantly turn the Israeli robber into a respectable neighbor.
    1. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 15: 30
      -2
      • 1
      • 3
      Himself not funny? Assad no longer wants to live ??
      1. meandr51 Offline
        meandr51 (Andrei) 8 July 2020 21: 03
        +4
        • 4
        • 0
        And how do you see it? Will the presence of missiles lead to a massive raid? Or even a nuclear strike? Why then does Iran still exist? He is quite capable of delivering a chemical blow to Israel. A nuclear scientist Ostretsov believes that nuclear.
        1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
          Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 10 July 2020 19: 53
          +2
          • 2
          • 0
          Quote: meandr51
          He is quite capable of delivering a chemical blow to Israel

          Here. The main words. They CAN strike, and Israel does. No declaration of war. Without the "bellie incident." Only on the basis that they are Shiites. But Shiite Arabs protect their home, Shiite Persians support them.
          And Israel is supporting the bombing of the ISLAMIC STATE, mercenaries from around the world, assembled by the United States to squeeze the pipeline. The protection of terrorists is hitting Israel in the international arena. Even the signatories of the peace treaty with Israel, the Arab countries limit foreign policy contacts with Tel Aviv to the limit. But Israel is proud - although he is a mongrel, he is an AMERICAN mongrel.
      2. Crimean Connecting Rod (Eugene) 9 July 2020 19: 58
        0
        • 1
        • 1
        And what, G2 has already bought indulgence for immortality? If Haifa is wiped off the map of Israel, will you not grieve too much?
  • meandr51 Offline
    meandr51 (Andrei) 8 July 2020 20: 55
    +3
    • 3
    • 0
    Who cares who proclaims what? Enough opportunity. At one time, the United States was shaking with fear and were ready to start a nuclear war due to the presence of a small number of Soviet RSD in Cuba. If you repeat this trick now and say that this is to protect against Mexico or Haiti, how do you think Trump will react? Moreover, the official NATO officials constantly make statements about the “Russian threat” to the Baltic states and Poland. And Polish officials say they will take Kaliningrad in 3 hours. Is this not a threat?
    As for real actions, they are no better. Based on the logic of Israel, the Russian Federation has the right to launch a preemptive missile strike at NATO’s advanced bases, from which a strike on its territory is possible.
    As for Syria, Israeli airstrikes inflict ridiculous material damage and are terrible only in the media. They do not affect Syria’s ability to cleanse its territory of mercenaries from the West.
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 17: 24
    +1
    • 3
    • 2
    That is, attacks on neighboring states are justified and permissible?
    1. Binder Offline
      Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 17: 37
      -3
      • 3
      • 6
      On the military facilities of a hostile state, located on the territory of another state, which is at war with Israel - quite.
      1. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 17: 47
        +1
        • 4
        • 3
        That is, Israel has the right to bomb any objects in Syria?
        Apparently, in response, Syria has every right to bomb the territory of Israel ...
        1. Binder Offline
          Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 20: 47
          -3
          • 2
          • 5
          Let us leave the discussion of rights aside, the Syrians and Iranians would be happy to bomb Israel, wipe it off the face of the earth, while the issue of rights would not interest them in the least, but who would allow them? bully
          1. Bakht Offline
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 21: 40
            +1
            • 4
            • 3
            I'm only interested in the question of law. The fact that you are not interested in issues of international law has long been known.
            That is, Israel has nothing to blame when its territory is fired by rockets. This is mutual love.
            1. Binder Offline
              Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 21: 56
              -2
              • 1
              • 3
              So no one blames, they just crush as quickly as possible.
              1. Bakht Offline
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 21: 58
                +2
                • 5
                • 3
                All clear. I read about this argument earlier. Unacceptable, first of all, for Israel. But you know better.
                1. Binder Offline
                  Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 22: 06
                  -4
                  • 1
                  • 5
                  Practice shows that this method works.
                  1. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 22: 08
                    0
                    • 3
                    • 3
                    Practice is tested by time. This method does not work. Does not work.
                    I have enough friends and acquaintances in Israel. So, you know better, but something is visible to me.
                    I just wanted to know your opinion personally. Blows on the territory of a foreign state under any far-fetched pretext are justified. This is your point of view. I understood her.
                    So rocket attacks on Israel are also justified.
                  2. Binder Offline
                    Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 22: 15
                    -3
                    • 1
                    • 4
                    I do not consider it necessary to convince. I just want to note that strikes on Iran’s facilities on Syrian territory are not carried out on some far-fetched pretexts, but because of real threats to Israel and its citizens.
                  3. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 22: 17
                    0
                    • 4
                    • 4
                    These are all far-fetched reasons. The main cause of tension is the Israeli intervention and the annexation of foreign territories. Sooner or later, you will have to pay.
                    But these are your problems.
                  4. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 7 July 2020 22: 31
                    -3
                    • 1
                    • 4
                    Quote: Bakht
                    These are all far-fetched reasons. The main cause of tension is the Israeli intervention and the annexation of foreign territories. Sooner or later, you will have to pay.
                    But these are your problems.

                    This is the case when nationality and religion overshadow common sense.
                    This is your case.
                  5. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 22: 36
                    0
                    • 4
                    • 4
                    What does nationality and religion have to do with it, only you know. Given that I am an atheist, this is all the more ridiculous.
                    The lack of logic and a reasonable solution to problems is your case.

                    I was interested in only one aspect. I received the answer. Missile attacks on Israeli territory are justified from your point of view.
                  6. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 7 July 2020 23: 37
                    +1
                    • 4
                    • 3
                    Iran declared its desire to destroy Israel? Yes.
                    Iran is trying to get closer to the Israeli borders, because it does not have in common? Yes.
                    Does Israel believe Iranian threats and promises to destroy it? Yes.
                    Is Israel willing to continue to exist? Yes
                    Should Israel try to eliminate this threat? Yes.
                    Well, he does it.
                  7. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 23: 42
                    0
                    • 4
                    • 4
                    For God's sake. Want to destroy Iran? No one has succeeded in 2500 years. You missed the root cause. Anyway. Continue in the same spirit. What am I? I am interested in some secondary questions. As for the preemptive strikes, I have already heard. Hitler made similar arguments. I do not draw parallels. Just a preemptive strike in all respects is an act of aggression. And the seizure of foreign lands, too. And this happened long before the revolution in Iran.
                  8. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 00: 08
                    -3
                    • 2
                    • 5
                    Hitler also wanted to kill all the Jews, like the Iranian ayatollahs ... in, we know how it all ended with him. So it will be with everyone and Ayatollahs are no exception. And no one is going to destroy Iran, except for himself ... And so, yes ... they drank all the water from the tap, and they built genocides everywhere ...
                    Zionists, they are)))
                  9. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 07: 24
                    -1
                    • 3
                    • 4
                    Again, do not understand. What a day. You write one, but the answer is completely different. I explain on the fingers - Hitler justified the preemptive strike. Just like you.
                  10. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 09: 03
                    0
                    • 3
                    • 3
                    In 1973, Israel did not deliver a pre-strike, wanted to please Bakhtiar ... and almost disappeared.

                    Hitler justified the preemptive strike. Just like you.

                    - do not grind nonsense and learn history)))
                  11. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 15: 36
                    +1
                    • 4
                    • 3
                    Hitler's speech June 22, 1941

                    Today, a round number of 160 Russian divisions are standing on our border. For many weeks there has been a constant violation of this border, not only here, but also in the Far North and in Romania. Russian pilots enjoy blithely not noticing these boundaries in order to prove to us that they already feel themselves masters of these areas. On the night of June 17-18, the Russian patrol crossed into German territory, and only after a lengthy shootout did they manage to force him to leave. Now, finally, the time has come when it becomes necessary to oppose this set of Jewish-Anglo-Saxon instigators of war and the equally Jewish authorities of the Bolshevik Moscow center.

                    At the moment, a trek is being made, which in extent and volume is the greatest of the world so far seen. Together with the Finnish comrades, the victorious soldiers at Narvik are standing at the Arctic Ocean. The German divisions, under the command of the conqueror of Norway, defend, together with the Finnish1 heroes of freedom, the Finnish land led by their marshal. From East Prussia to the Carpathians stretch parts of the German Eastern Front. On the banks of the Prut, at the mouth of the Danube to the Black Sea, under the leadership of the head of state General Antonescu, German and Romanian soldiers join.

                    Therefore, the task of this front is no longer the protection of individual countries, but the security of Europe, and with this the salvation of all.

                    Therefore, I now decided to give the fate and future of Germany and our people back into the hands of our soldiers.

                    May the Lord God help us in this struggle!

                    Sub .: Adolf Hitler
                  12. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 16: 20
                    -2
                    • 1
                    • 3
                    Hitler launched the WAR against the USSR, without any preemptive strike)))
                    Meaning of the word “preventive”:

                    (((PREVENTIVE, XNUMXnd, XNUMXnd. Book. Warning smth., Precautionary. Preventive vaccination. Preventive measures.

                    Small Academic Dictionary, MAC)))

                    You started talking so much, you and your friends are minuscors, that you accuse Stalin of the aggression that he is preparing against the peace-loving Germany.

                    By the way, Hitler claimed that the sky is blue ... well, then what? If someone else says so, is he a friend of Hitler?
                    Verbiage is not a virtue, but a disadvantage)))
                  13. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 16: 35
                    +1
                    • 4
                    • 3
                    The fact that you don’t even understand what you are quoting says a lot.
                    You can argue with a man who UNDERSTANDS, what is it about.
                  14. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 16: 39
                    -2
                    • 0
                    • 2
                    Well, well done; could not, jumped off)))
                  15. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 16: 42
                    0
                    • 3
                    • 3
                    Again, do not understand. I cannot explain to you that you are wrong because you do not understand the meaning of words.
                  16. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 16: 46
                    -3
                    • 0
                    • 3
                    Come on, everything is clear with you ...))) But to understand, I realized that you have nothing to object to.
                  17. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 16: 53
                    +1
                    • 4
                    • 3
                    Learn the meaning of the word "proactive." You didn’t even understand what you yourself wrote.
                    With preemptive strikes Hitler justified his invasion. The state of Israel calls its airstrikes. There is a direct connection. And it can only not be seen .... blind.
                  18. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 17: 09
                    -2
                    • 1
                    • 3
                    Well, do not flog nonsense.
                    Hitler never speaks of a preemptive strike.
                    You can call it what you want, I call it aggression and war without a declaration.
                    I doubt that you will understand, okay ... Hitler captured territories after his blows.
                    Do you see the difference?
                  19. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 17: 16
                    0
                    • 3
                    • 3
                    The imperial minister of foreign affairs began the conversation by remarking that the hostile attitude of the Soviet government towards Germany and the serious threat that Germany sees in the concentration of Russians [troops] on the eastern border of Germany forced the Reich to take military countermeasures. Dekanozov will find a detailed account of the motives explaining the German position in the memorandum which the imperial minister of foreign affairs presents to him. The imperial foreign minister added that he was very sorry for such a development of German-Soviet relations, since he, in particular, tried very hard to promote

                    Do you know exactly the meaning of the word "preventive"?
                  20. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 17: 18
                    0
                    • 2
                    • 2
                    Want to translate to modern?

                    The hostile attitude of the Iranian government towards Israel and the serious threat that Israel sees in the concentration of Hezbollah on the eastern border of Israel forced Israel to take military countermeasures.
                  21. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 17: 29
                    -3
                    • 1
                    • 4
                    Do you know exactly the meaning of the word "preventive"?

                    Do you know exactly the meaning of the word "interpretation"?
                    This is what you are doing now.

                    And if Israel inflicts preemptive strikes on Iran in Syria, then Hitler did not engage in preemptive strikes, he waged aggressive wars and did not hide this.
                  22. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 17: 32
                    +1
                    • 4
                    • 3
                    Hitler called his war against the USSR preventive. This term is now actively circulated in the Western media.
                    ---
                    But already a little progress. Israel strikes preemptively. Hitler did the same. When you understand this, much will become clear.
                    But honestly, I do not think that you will agree with this. I don’t count on it.
                    -----
                    I just drew attention to this phrase:

                    Hitler after his attacks captured the territory.

                    I laughed so much. Do you even understand what you wrote?
                  23. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 17: 42
                    -3
                    • 0
                    • 3
                    I already wrote to you, you are engaged in verbiage.

                    But honestly, I do not think that you will agree with this. I don’t count on it.

                    And rightly so.
                  24. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 17: 43
                    0
                    • 2
                    • 2
                    All. Get wiser, come. The letters you know. Add them to words and sentences. You do not understand the meaning.
                    It's useless.
                  25. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 17: 45
                    -3
                    • 0
                    • 3
                    I'm smart enough to appreciate your "prose".)))
                  26. 321 Offline
                    321 (321) 11 July 2020 12: 31
                    -1
                    • 0
                    • 1
                    Quote: jacques
                    I'm smart enough ...

                    - this is nothing more than your illusion. bully
                  27. Jacques Offline
                    Jacques (jacques) 11 July 2020 12: 59
                    -1
                    • 0
                    • 1
                    Great and powerful Russian language, but this does not mean that you need to engage in verbiage, even if you learned to count to three: 123))))
                  28. 321 Offline
                    321 (321) 11 July 2020 14: 52
                    -1
                    • 0
                    • 1
                    Quote: jacques
                    Great and powerful Russian language, but this does not mean that you need to engage in verbiage, even if you learned to count to three: 123))))

                    Who would write about verbiage? laughing bully
                    And what should I do, I’ll definitely manage without your advice ...
                    By the way, about learning to count - this is not quite about you ... hi
        2. Michael I Offline
          Michael I (Michael I) 8 July 2020 20: 31
          -1
          • 1
          • 2
          USSR declared war on Germany? But Syria attacked Israel in 1948 and has been at war since then.
        3. Bakht Offline
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 20: 37
          +2
          • 3
          • 1
          Again?
          In 1948, Israel (Ben Gurion read the act on May 15. Was Israel then?) Was attacked not by Syria alone, but by 7 Arab states. A state of war does not mean bombing. The USSR was at war with Japan until its collapse. The Russian Federation (as the successor) and is now at war with Japan. And the same territorial dispute. Which Japanese or Russian planes bombed each other's territories?
          The state of war does not justify striking foreign territory. And it does not mean the conduct of hostilities in the active phase. Is Iraq also at war? But Israeli aircraft bombed a nuclear center in Baghdad.
          ----
          Honestly - the topic is tired. Israel wants to have enemies - let it have. What matters to me. Just when the next missile falls on the territory of Israel, I will answer in the same way - the countries are at war and nothing bad happened. I do not put the life of a Jew above the life of an Arab. I’m such a humanist.
        4. Jacques Offline
          Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 21: 54
          -2
          • 0
          • 2
          The Russian Federation (as the successor) and is now at war with Japan.

          Nonsense, learn the materiel:

          https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2490659.html
        5. Bakht Offline
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 21: 56
          +3
          • 3
          • 0
          Casuistry.
          No Peace Treaty? Are there territorial claims? Is there a bombardment of each other?
          And do not tell me what to teach. I have already seen that I personally don’t learn anything new from you.
        6. Bakht Offline
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 21: 58
          +3
          • 3
          • 0
          Have you carefully read your link? And didn’t understand anything? As I expected. As my teacher (incidentally, a world-famous academician) said, “This is not for average minds!”
        7. Jacques Offline
          Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 22: 24
          -3
          • 0
          • 3
          The state of war was terminated and diplomatic and consular relations of the USSR with Japan were established ...

          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81
          %D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE-

          This habit is dodging ...)))
        8. Bakht Offline
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 22: 30
          +3
          • 3
          • 0
          Have you already studied the materiel? What does the habit of dodging have to do with it, if you do not know the basics and history of the issue. You would first read and UNDERSTANDwhat is written in your first link. It says the 1956 Declaration and it is proposed to simply sign it. Verbatim:

          Moreover, it is very easy to eliminate this “abnormality” - to sign such an agreement in the near future, which was proposed by the President of the Russian Federation. After all, all the clauses of the agreement have long been agreed back in 1956 ...

          That is, to transfer 4 islands to Japan.
          But you do not know. And no one explained to you that in 1960 the USSR withdrew its signature on the 1956 Declaration and said that under the changed conditions this Declaration was no longer valid. So references to 1956 have no power.
          Learn materiel, young man.
        9. Jacques Offline
          Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 23: 48
          -3
          • 0
          • 3
          The Russian Federation and Japan are not at war.
          And this is neither de facto nor de jure.
        10. Bakht Offline
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 00: 06
          +3
          • 3
          • 0
          Well this is your opinion. The 1956 declaration was canceled by a 1960 statement. The 1956 declaration had clearly defined points. Japan did not comply. The declaration has lost its force.
          The opinion of some journalist from the regnum does not particularly bother anyone. You can take it whatever you want. Officially, Japan signed an act of unconditional surrender. Including in front of the USSR. So the state of war legally ended on September 2, 1945. But only in relation to the Second World War.


          But in 1956, the Declaration on ending the war was signed, and then it was torn apart. If the signature of the USSR on the cessation of war was withdrawn, can this be considered the absence of war? In my opinion, the state of war remains. The USSR declared war on Japan on August 9, 1945, and this state has not been legally canceled to date.

          Returning to our rams. Israel and Syria. Legally, they are at war. In fact, the war has not been waged for about 30 years. I have already received an answer to my question. The shelling of Israel, as well as the raids of the Israeli Air Force, are justified and legitimate, although legally. In my opinion, the state of war between Syria and Israel legally exists. In practice, there are only Israeli air force attacks.
        11. Jacques Offline
          Jacques (jacques) 9 July 2020 00: 22
          -3
          • 0
          • 3
          Japanese Embassy in Moscow:
          Adresse: Grokhol'skiy Pereulok, 27, Moscow, Russie, 129090
        12. Jacques Offline
          Jacques (jacques) 9 July 2020 00: 28
          -3
          • 0
          • 3
          In practice, there are only Israeli Air Force attacks.

          Exclusively on Iranian and Hezbollah forces. On the Syrians only for self-defense (return fire).
        13. Crimean Connecting Rod (Eugene) 9 July 2020 06: 53
          -1
          • 1
          • 2
          That is, if Iran drops a couple of nuclear bombs on Israel, then this will be considered an act of self-defense? Accepted.
        14. Jacques Offline
          Jacques (jacques) 11 July 2020 12: 32
          -2
          • 1
          • 3
          You can hide your "logic" in the connecting rod)))
          You do not love Israel? Want to destroy him? Get in line like everyone else ...
          Naturally ... do not forget to grease, as it should, the sofa)))
  • Michael1950 Offline
    Michael1950 (Michael) 11 July 2020 15: 45
    -3
    • 1
    • 4
    - Stop talking nonsense?

    In 1948, Israel (Ben Gurion read the act on May 15. Was Israel then?) Was attacked not by Syria alone, but by 7 Arab states.

    If Syria attacked in a gang to destroy the State of Israel, recreated by decision of the UN, is it less to blame for this?

    The state of war does not justify striking foreign territory. And it does not mean the conduct of hostilities in the active phase.

    You yourself do not feel internal protest when you say such idiocy?

    I do not put the life of a Jew above the life of an Arab. I’m such a humanist.

    And I do not put the life of an Azerbaijanian above the life of an Arab ...
  • Crimean Connecting Rod (Eugene) 9 July 2020 06: 50
    -1
    • 1
    • 2
    And if Israel attacks Iran in Syria

    Wow, what a hutspa. A preemptive strike in the back of Syria, fighting ISIS terrorists. Conclusion: Israel stands alongside Islamic fundamental terrorists.
  • Binder Offline
    Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 22: 53
    -2
    • 2
    • 4
    Quote: Bakht
    The main cause of tension is the Israeli intervention and the annexation of foreign territories.

    Especially if you recall that the Arab states began joint military operations against Israel the day after independence in 1948, when there was no talk of any intervention or annexation by the Israelis.

    Quote: Bakht
    Sooner or later, you will have to pay.

    We pay constantly, with the blood and lives of our citizens.

    Quote: Bakht
    But these are your problems.

    These are our problems, the problems of Russia - to arm to the teeth and train as many of our enemies as possible, as it has been for many years ...
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 23: 01
    +1
    • 4
    • 3
    Oh well. Who first started and why it all started, tons of books are scribbled. And not only Soviet literature. I said that I’m not going to write much. And you created your enemies yourself. Russia has nothing to do with it. Have you read the story? What they said to Agesilaus after the wound, you probably do not know.
    I already said - these are your problems. And only yours. As the saying goes, "there is nothing to blame on the mirror, since the face is crooked."
  • Binder Offline
    Binder (Miron) 8 July 2020 04: 15
    -2
    • 2
    • 4
    Quote: Bakht
    What they told Agesilaus after the wound, you probably do not know.

    The lame Spartan is clearly out of place here. And the enemies of Israel were largely created in the offices of the KGB, the PLO - a vivid example of this ...
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 07: 23
    +1
    • 3
    • 2
    Very much to the place. And Israel was largely helped by the USSR. In the year 1948.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Michael1950 Offline
    Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 15: 58
    -3
    • 0
    • 3
    You actually know that Arabs - (united arab nation - as they call themselves), occupy 21 states on an area of ​​14 million square meters. kilometers 700 times more than the territory of Israel!

    https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/de-arabische-wereld-verklaart-de-politieke-kaart-met-arabisch-sprekende-landen-van-de-arabische-liga-higlighted-noordelijk-afrika-92517121.jpg
  • Michael1950 Offline
    Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 09: 20
    -3
    • 0
    • 3
    Of course! And who will forbid her ?! The UN has never been a decree to her. Let him try? lol
  • Michael1950 Offline
    Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 15: 32
    -3
    • 0
    • 3
    "Twenty-five again!" What is Syria for almost 50 years now not bombs and not bombing the territory of Israel? WHY??
  • meandr51 Offline
    meandr51 (Andrei) 8 July 2020 21: 05
    0
    • 0
    • 0
    Who declared war to whom? And when?
  • Igor Pavlovich Offline
    Igor Pavlovich (Igor Pavlovich) 7 July 2020 18: 23
    0
    • 2
    • 2
    They have disabled analysis and logic ...
    1. Binder Offline
      Binder (Miron) 7 July 2020 20: 48
      -3
      • 1
      • 4
      Nice person, who would talk about logic and analysis ...
  • Heroes Heroes Offline
    Heroes Heroes (Sergei) 8 July 2020 10: 32
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    And who will fight? All Syrians have fled to Europe or are sitting in a cafe in Damascus. The war has been going on for more than 10 years, but the mobilization has not been declared !!!
  • antikaschey Offline
    antikaschey (Modest Matveevich) 14 July 2020 10: 12
    +1
    • 1
    • 0
    Living is impossible to believe. Today you will remove the Iranians, tomorrow they will demand that the Russians be removed. They just need to be wetted, they do not perceive other arguments.
  • steelmaker Offline
    steelmaker 7 July 2020 18: 13
    -3
    • 3
    • 6
    Aviation does not happen much, especially the MiG-29. India has proven that the MiG-21 is also a good airplane now. Israel is focusing on Iranian bases and military in Syria, and therefore bombing them. And why did the Iranians even appear there? Israel must first demand the Ishilovites and Turks to get out of Syria, and then the Iranians must make claims, so it will be fairer! Actually, what am I talking about? Israel and justice are incompatible concepts !!
    1. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 09: 24
      -2
      • 0
      • 2
      Israel must first demand the Ishilovites and Turks to get out of Syria, and then the Iranians must make claims, so it will be fairer!

      Since when did they begin to command Ankara from Jerusalem ?? fool What nonsense ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • jekasimf Offline
    jekasimf (jekasimf) 7 July 2020 23: 09
    +3
    • 4
    • 1
    Israel has only 10 air bases, on a tiny territory. If the Iranians and the Syrians had strong eggs, they would have covered them all with one massive salvo from the MLRS, points U, Skadov, etc. And all planes would be destroyed on earth.
    1. Jacques Offline
      Jacques (jacques) 8 July 2020 00: 00
      0
      • 1
      • 1
      What to do with a wet sofa? Dry!!!
    2. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 09: 35
      -3
      • 0
      • 3
      And it never occurred to a clever head that the thing was not at all the eggs of Bashar al-Assad, but that he wanted to:
      a) live;
      b) to remain in power in their own country.
  • Valery Valeriev Offline
    Valery Valeriev (Valery Valeriev) 7 July 2020 23: 12
    -1
    • 3
    • 4
    Cheap information from a false source. No MIGI and other miracles can help Syria defeat Israel. Why? The economies are not comparable, the internal political life in Syria is still at the level of some Aboriginal people without a clan and without a tribe. First clean up your house, then deal with Israel.
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 23: 18
    +2
    • 4
    • 2
    Past

    According to a tradition recognized by both Arabs and Jews, both nations come from the two sons of Abraham: Ishmael and Isaac. As the son of an Egyptian slave, Ishmael was forced to leave his father's land and go into exile in the desert. He is considered the ancestor of the twelve Bedouin tribes from whom the modern Arab peoples originate. Isaac, the brother of Ishmael, became the ancestor of the twelve Jewish tribes - ten of them disappeared without a trace. Many people, including Admiral Fisher, claimed that the British were descendants of lost tribes. The rivalry between Jews and Arabs is a dispute between brothers: both peoples belong to the same Semitic race and speak related languages, and both peoples consider Palestine their homeland.
    -----
    Future

    The Arabs must decide how, due to constant Israeli military superiority and the unwillingness or inability of the great powers to impose an agreement, they can return the territories they lost in 1967. The Israelis, for their part, must consider the Palestinians of the West Bank and solve the refugee problem. One influential Palestinian leader, a resident of East Jerusalem, once remarked: "We have three equally unacceptable ways: to fight, to cooperate, or to leave." If Israel could solve the refugee problem in a spirit of justice, it would ensure a peace for itself that has so far eluded it. The continuation of the war, according to the correct definition of King Hussein, is insanity. Taking into account that both sides can gain so much from the world and lose so much from the continuation of the war, the parties to the conflict must understand that they can find a solution.
    1. Binder Offline
      Binder (Miron) 8 July 2020 04: 42
      -5
      • 0
      • 5
      Quote: Bakht
      Many people, including Admiral Fisher, claimed that the British were descendants of lost tribes.

      They found the descendants of the tribes of Israel all over the world - from Africa to South America and Japan ...

      Quote: Bakht
      Arabs must decide

      Most of the Arabs - citizens of Israel, have long and firmly decided everything for themselves - they are fully integrated into Israeli society, are full citizens and enjoy all civil rights.

      Quote: Bakht
      If Israel could solve the refugee issue in a fair manner, it would ensure peace for itself.

      The refugee problem does not exist, and the peace of Israel is provided by its armed forces.
      1. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 07: 26
        +3
        • 4
        • 1
        They made me laugh. Especially about the integration of Arabs into Israeli society. I have very different information. Straight from Israel.
        That's because the "refugee problem does not exist," Israel lives in a state of war.
        1. Binder Offline
          Binder (Miron) 8 July 2020 16: 42
          -4
          • 0
          • 4
          Quote: Bakht
          They made me laugh. Especially about the integration of Arabs into Israeli society.

          According to the Russian proverb: Laughter for no reason is a sign ... delicately expressed, not very prominent mind. In Israel, there are Arab ministers, parliamentarians, diplomats, generals, directors of banks and factories, professors, doctors, lawyers, etc. This I call integration, and laugh at your health. laughing
          1. Bakht Offline
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 16: 45
            +3
            • 4
            • 1
            Do Arabs living in Israel all have equal rights with Jews? Can serve in the army, take part in the elections? Have an Israeli passport?
            I know about a small number of Druze.
            1. Binder Offline
              Binder (Miron) 8 July 2020 16: 53
              -3
              • 0
              • 3
              Arabs who are Israeli citizens have all rights, serve in the army (optional), border guards, police, of course, participate in the elections and have passports exactly the same as those of the Jews. In addition, they have a number of benefits, as representatives of nat. minorities.
              1. Bakht Offline
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 16: 58
                +2
                • 4
                • 2
                We are talking about different categories of Arabs. Israeli Arabs have rights. These are mainly Druze. Palestinian Arabs living in the occupied territories and in East Jerusalem do not have such rights. Recently, they began to apply for Israeli citizenship. But for the most part they receive refusals and have no rights. This is understandable. Otherwise, the state of Israel cannot act. Palestinian Arabs living on the territory of Israel within its modern borders do not have voting or other rights. And they cannot serve in the army.
                I am talking about those Arabs who live in the territories occupied by Israel.
                Do not make a naive face. I studied the story well enough. And I have enough information from Israel itself. The smartest of your leaders was Yitzhak Rabin. But you called him a traitor and killed him. What Rabin proposed, I take as the basis for further action.
                1. Bakht Offline
                  Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 17: 01
                  +3
                  • 4
                  • 1
                  This is the official position of the state of Israel.

                  In the existing geographical and demographic conditions, the influx of a large number of refugees into Israel is almost impossible. Provided that the current population of Israel is more than 7,5 million people (of which about one fifth are Arabs), the influx of millions of Palestinians into the State of Israel would threaten the very existence of Israel as a Jewish state, thereby underlining its main feature - to be a national center of Jewish people and refuge for persecuted Jews. Therefore, the requirement to live in Israel is nothing more than a veiled form of demographic destruction of the Jewish state.
                2. Binder Offline
                  Binder (Miron) 8 July 2020 17: 05
                  -3
                  • 0
                  • 3
                  You are not in the subject - the Druze make up only a small part of the Arab population of Israel, most of the citizens of Arab origin are Muslims. There are Christian Arabs decomp. denominations. And the inhabitants of the Palestinian Authority and Gaza are not citizens of the state of Israel, although many of them secretly desire this.
                  1. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 17: 13
                    +2
                    • 4
                    • 2
                    I'm just in the subject. Israel has captured the territories inhabited by Palestinian Arabs. These people are stateless. Secretly or secretly desire, this is all speculation. It is a fact that in recent years they began to apply for citizenship. And they are refused. I can understand this refusal. As Rabin said, “it is dangerous to dilute the population of Israel with non-Jews.” But these millions of people live in the state of Israel (de facto, within its current borders and have no rights). So I'm right.
                    The creation of the State of Palestine is fraught with great difficulties, but this does not mean that war must go on forever. Israel’s actions (kibbutzim, capital, changing borders) do not bring peace closer.
                    We started by striking the territory of another state. I said that discussing everything is not enough time or patience. Responsibility for the absence of the Arab state of Palestine lies with the Arab countries themselves. I studied the history of the Middle East quite tightly. There are no white and fluffy ones. Including Israel. But living in a "besieged fortress" is impossible. Yitzhak Rabin understood this (by the way, one of your best generals and politicians). And you can’t call him soft. It is from his ideas that one must build on.
      2. Michael1950 Offline
        Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 10: 13
        -2
        • 2
        • 4
        Most of the Arabs - citizens of Israel, have long and firmly decided everything for themselves - they are fully integrated into Israeli society, are full citizens and enjoy all civil rights.

        Of course no. They are full citizens, they enjoy all the benefits and privileges, but 80% of them do not consider themselves Israelis, do not feel loyal to the Jewish state and make up the very “fifth column” that is ready to “stab a knife in the back” at the first opportunity. We recall the last intifada - the blockade of Israeli roads by Arab citizens of Israel ?! Until Barak (the only good deed that he did as prime minister!) Gave the command to open fire on them to defeat and until 13 people were shot - these creatures instantly became silk! Peaceful, peaceful, loyal (outwardly). At that time, I saw a funny picture on the bus: two Arabs walk through the cabin and talk among themselves ... in Hebrew! laughing lol
    2. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 09: 43
      -2
      • 0
      • 2
      ... both peoples belong to the same Semitic race and speak related languages, and both peoples consider Palestine their homeland.

      Let it be a lie ?! The homeland of the Arabs is Saudi Arabia (you need to know at least where the prophet Muhammad came from!). In the same way as the birthplace of the Crimean Tatars - Mongolia!
      And genetically, Jews are closest to Kurds, not Arabs.

      The Arabs must decide how, due to constant Israeli military superiority and the unwillingness or inability of the great powers to impose an agreement, they can return the territories they lost in 1967.

      They will never return them. Having attacked Israel in 1948, when there was a complete opportunity to create an Arab state (the term "Palestinians" simply did not exist yet, there is no such ethnos!), Seven Arab countries deprived themselves of any right - moral, legal in these territories. Preparing for the next attack on Israel in 1967, Gamal Abdel on all Nassers deprived the Arabs of any right whatsoever to these lands in the future.
      1. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 10: 05
        +1
        • 3
        • 2
        As for the origin of Arabs and Jews, this is not for me. This is for Churchill. Quote from his book. :-)
        Don’t be so nervous. By annexing foreign lands, the Jews placed themselves outside international law. And they have no moral right to claim against the Arabs. Israel occupies these lands by the right of the strong. And they hope that it will always be. History shows that this never happens. I have already found out that Arabs have every right to shell Israeli territory.
        By the way, the term "Palestinians" existed long before 1947. The British, for example, created the "Palestinian Legion" and he fought against Hitler. It consisted entirely of Jews. It was the Jews at that time called the Palestinians. It was then a change of concepts. Learn the history of your country ...
        1. Bakht Offline
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 10: 13
          +2
          • 3
          • 1
          In the period of compulsory Palestine, the term “Palestinian” was used to mean all people living there, regardless of religion or ethnicity, and persons who received citizenship from the British credentials received “Palestinian citizenship”. Other examples include the use of the term “Palestinian Regiment” to refer to the group of the Jewish infantry brigade of the British army during World War II, as well as the term “Palestinian Talmud,” which is an alternative name for the Jerusalem Talmud and is used primarily in scientific sources. ,

          After the creation of Israel in 1948, the use and use of the terms "Palestine" and "Palestine" by Palestinian Jews and to a large extent ceased. For example, the English-language newspaper The Palestine Post, founded by Jews in 1932, changed its name in 1950 to The Jerusalem Post. Jews in Israel and the West Bank are commonly called Israelis today. Arab citizens of Israel identify themselves as Israeli, Palestinian or Arab.
        2. Michael I Offline
          Michael I (Michael I) 8 July 2020 21: 04
          -2
          • 0
          • 2
          And you were not interested in where the name “Palestine” came from? When you know, you will understand why the Jews do not consider themselves “Palestinians”. To make it easier to search, read what “Curse of Titus” means.
          1. Bakht Offline
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 21: 06
            +3
            • 3
            • 0
            Without even reading, I can say that the word Palestine happened long before Titus.
            Interestingly, if the Jews did not consider themselves Palestinians, then why was the newspaper called The Palestine Post?
            1. Michael I Offline
              Michael I (Michael I) 8 July 2020 21: 13
              -2
              • 0
              • 2
              After the Jewish rebellion against Rome and the expulsion of Jews from Israel, Titus decided to take revenge on the Jews and named this territory after the most ancient enemies of the Jews - the Phalists. So the word Palestine appeared. Prior to this, this territory was not called so, a historical fact.
              1. Bakht Offline
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 21: 15
                +1
                • 1
                • 0
                But what about this fact?

                Some Greek writers, beginning with Herodotus (according to Roman scribes), called this land Syria Palestinian, or Palestine.

                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Палестина
                1. Michael I Offline
                  Michael I (Michael I) 10 July 2020 14: 18
                  0
                  • 0
                  • 0
                  Roman scribes. Maybe they did the will of Titus?
                  1. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 10 July 2020 15: 29
                    +2
                    • 2
                    • 0
                    You won’t ask them. But the name Palestine (in ancient transcription) existed 2500 years ago. Or more. Golda Meir talked about 3000 years.

                    The Philistines (Hebrew פלישתים plishtim, Arabic. فلستيون or فلسطيون) - the ancient people who inhabited the coastal part of Palestine (from modern Tel Aviv to Gaza) from the XII century BC. e .. Repeatedly mentioned in the Old Testament (starting with Gen. 10:14), as well as in Assyrian and Egyptian sources.

                    I hope the Old Testament was not written by the Romans?
                    1. Bakht Offline
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 10 July 2020 15: 39
                      +2
                      • 2
                      • 0
                      Good picture?


                      I really don’t know what is written on the truck ...
                      1. Michael I Offline
                        Michael I (Michael I) 11 July 2020 07: 32
                        +1
                        • 1
                        • 0
                        Something against imperialism.
                      2. Bakht Offline
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 11 July 2020 08: 07
                        +1
                        • 1
                        • 0
                        And they convinced me that the USSR and Russia want to destroy Israel.
                  2. Michael I Offline
                    Michael I (Michael I) 11 July 2020 07: 36
                    0
                    • 0
                    • 0
                    So I say that the word came from the Philistines who lived here. But the territory was called Palestine by the Romans, after the expulsion of the Jews. Before that was the Roman province of Judea.
                    1. Bakht Offline
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 11 July 2020 08: 14
                      +2
                      • 2
                      • 0
                      You drag me into the history of 3000 years. This is unproductive. The Philistines lived there and the territory was called Philistia. Then the Jews came and called their country Judea. The Romans simply returned the old name. So Palestine was before the Jews. Long before the same Titus.
                      ----
                      Why is this unproductive? Because it was 3000 years ago. The principle of "historical justice" has long been recognized as having no significance. Neither 3000, nor 2000, nor even 1000 years ago have anything to do with the current situation. At the time of the creation of the state of Israel, this land was called Palestine and no one disputed this. You wrote that "Jews do not consider themselves Palestinians." Of course they don’t. But they lived on the mandated territory of Palestine and used the term. I gave examples, the newspaper, military units, all called Palestinian Jews.
                    2. Michael1950 Offline
                      Michael1950 (Michael) 11 July 2020 19: 47
                      -2
                      • 1
                      • 3
                      Yes, Palestinian Jews, Palestinian! laughing And here is Palestine, which the English got after the First World War under the mandate of the League of Nations in 1918:

                      https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2014-05/1400000403_1920-boundaryconventionmap.jpg

                      And here is what the colonialists did with the territory that came under their control: they chopped off 3/4 of it and established a state of transordanion there, where Jews were forbidden to live, this is the state of the Palestinian Arabs:

                      https://anneinpt.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/86025-1922-mandate_for_palestine.jpg

                      And then on the remaining 1/4, which was again called "Palestine" - let's organize two states - Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs! But, after all, ONE STATE OF THE PALESTINIAN ARABS HAS ALREADY BEEN CREATED!

                      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BE%D1%
                      80%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F

                      So with what hangover do you need to create a second state of the Palestinian Arabs ??
                      Nevertheless, the UN proclaimed it, together with the Jewish state, according to completely unthinkable and unviable maps:

                      https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a42057eaf06382da7581c696c870f120.webp

                      But 7 Arab states did not give a damn about the UN resolution and started a war to destroy the Jewish state. At the price of the hardest losses, the Jews won and the map became this:

                      https://www.migdal.org.ua/images/migdal-25699.jpg

                      Judea and Samaria were Jordanian, Gaza - Egyptian. Who prevented the Arabs from creating the SECOND Palestinian state there ?? But they didn’t have such a thought until 1967.when they overslept the Six Day War!

                      https://kstati.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/mify_karta_israily_040-267x500.jpg

                      Then they caught on and began to scream: "Where is the Palestinian state ?!" Which they did not think to create for 18 years!
                      Current Map:

                      https://www.ezilon.com/maps/images/asia/political-map-of-Israel.gif
                    3. Bakht Offline
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 11 July 2020 20: 30
                      +1
                      • 2
                      • 1
                      Almost everything is correct, except for emotions. On the territory of Mandatory Palestine, Jews and Arabs lived. The attacks (by the way, and the Jewish ones too) went on continuously. The British were tired and they decided to wash their hands and delimit them. And so the idea of ​​two states was born. You are proposing the option to evict all Arabs living in Mandate Palestine and create a purely Jewish state. The creation of two states is not a whim of the British alone. Almost all UN representatives of that time voted for him.
                      Yes, the Arabs did not recognize this decision, but the Jews did not really recognize it either. The war began almost immediately after the departure of the British. And even earlier.
                      Arabs paid for their unpreparedness and unwillingness to fight. 7 Arab states declared war, but practically did not fight. The only force that fought the Jews was the Arab Legion. But its numbers were scanty. And then, he almost took Jerusalem.
                      Israel in general (and Jerusalem in particular) was saved by Count Bernadotte, who was later killed in gratitude by the Jews themselves. Ben Gurion became furious and demanded the execution of all Stern members.
                      The fact that Arab Palestine was not created until 1967 is the biggest crime and Pharisee of the Arabs. I have always said that the territory of Arab Palestine until 1967 was occupied by Egypt and Jordan. And after 1967, Israel.
                      But what has been done is done. The question is how many Arabs live in the modern territory of Israel (I mean NOT Israeli citizens) and what are you going to do with them? Keep in mind that no one has canceled demographics and there are more and more of them. They must either be destroyed, or expelled or create a state for them. If you have another way to solve the problem, I will be glad to listen.
                    4. Michael I Offline
                      Michael I (Michael I) 12 July 2020 12: 24
                      0
                      • 0
                      • 0
                      In principle, everything is true, except that most Arabs live in Israel. If you mean the Arabs in the Gaza Strip and in Samaria, then they do not live in Israel, we fenced off them with a wall.
                  3. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 11 July 2020 20: 32
                    +1
                    • 2
                    • 1
                    The issue of states' dawns for one nation is also relevant for Azerbaijan. But there is a difference. Jordan and Palestine (currently non-existent) are not one people and they are not going to unite. In any case, I have not heard such slogans.
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 7 July 2020 23: 28
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    Question to the Jews. I asked my friends, but they claim that there are no keys to Jerusalem at the Mordechai Weingarten Museum. Does anyone know what happened to them and where are they?
    1. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 8 July 2020 09: 44
      -1
      • 0
      • 1
      Clear business where - the Arabs ... communized.
    2. Alexzn Online
      Alexzn (Alexander) 8 July 2020 11: 35
      0
      • 0
      • 0
      Not the keys, but the key. He didn’t particularly delve into it, but this is a half-invented artifact. Usually they talk about the key to the Zion Gate (the gate of David), the gate was built in 1540 and the keys that were supposedly lost by the Jews in the 70s after the capture of Jerusalem by Titus. They like to mention this artifact (tradition), but as a real historical unit, it is doubtful.
      1. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 11: 57
        +2
        • 2
        • 0
        This is the key that was lost in the 70s. I first read about this in Smirnov’s book, The Arab-Israeli Wars. By the way, a good edition.
        My friends went to Weingarten's house on purpose. They say that he is not. The legend is beautiful, but did Smirnov really use only the legend?

        http://militera.lib.ru/h/smirnov_ai/pre.html

        Starting in the year 70, the key to the gates of Jerusalem was never in Jewish hands. I have the honor to present it to you - for the first time. ” And the officer handed the rabbi a key, which was a metal blank, on the same solid iron ring. The metal was struck by rust and had a very ancient appearance. The priest accepted this gift with trembling hands. He knew an old legend, passed down between the Jews from generation to generation. According to legend, on the last night before the fall of the city, under the pressure of the Roman legionnaires of the emperor Titus, desperate clergy handed this key to the strongest of them, and the one shouting “God! From now on, you will be the keeper of this key ”threw it with all his might into heaven. Since then, none of the Jews has seen this key.
  • Heroes Heroes Offline
    Heroes Heroes (Sergei) 8 July 2020 10: 30
    0
    • 0
    • 0
    Well, since Forbes wrote ....... Only these dwellers and I believe!
  • magma Offline
    magma (Tatyana) 8 July 2020 11: 16
    +3
    • 3
    • 0
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    NATO bases do not threaten the Russian Federation, and members of the North Atlantic community do not proclaim the destruction of Russia as their priority goal.

    - here is an assessment of your level of intelligence ...
  • gorenina91 Online
    gorenina91 (Irina) 8 July 2020 19: 20
    -1
    • 1
    • 2
    - Here again the “progressive” and “fiery human rights activist” are still flailing all the same Bakht (Bakhtiyar) .... - And how does he care about the fate of the Palestinians, Syrians, etc ... - well, just be touched and you can shed a tear ... - But personally, I am sobbing sobbing soberly ... - it touched me so much ...
    - But when this "progressive and fiery fighter" Bakht (Bakhtiyar) was asked a small question about how the situation with human rights in relation to the Russian-speaking population in the "Bakhtiyar states" ...; and what personally does this “progressive” and “fiery human rights activist” Bakht (Bakhtiyar) do to defend the rights of the Russian-speaking population if (God forbid) ... - these rights are violated there ... - then ... then ... this this "progressive" and "fiery human rights activist" Bakht (Bakhtiyar) for some reason didn’t answer anything ... - Probably, he collected material about oppressed Palestinians, Syrians and others ...- But about Russian-speaking this "progressive" and "fiery human rights activist" Bakht (Bakhtiyar) - somehow forgot ...
    He has such a ... "memory" ... - what I want is what I remember ... - Hahah ...
    1. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 21: 24
      0
      • 1
      • 1
      Irina, do not be a fool. When they asked me a question and didn’t answer him?
    2. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 8 July 2020 21: 28
      +1
      • 2
      • 1
      I answer you an UNQUESTED question. The rights of Russians in Azerbaijan.
      My wife is Russian, I myself often visited the North Caucasus. She is from the Cossacks. My daughter studied at a Russian school after the collapse of the USSR. Azerbaijan is full of Russian schools, there is a Russian cultural center. My daughter graduated from the school and institute in Russian. She knows three languages ​​(like me, sinful). She knows English much better than me.
      Russian rights are protected quite well. In any case, when we turned to the Russian embassy, ​​we ran from the police half-bent and with huge apologies.
      In Azerbaijan, news in Russian is broadcast daily on television. There are not enough places in Russian schools. Many Azerbaijanis send their children to the Russian sector. What else is needed?
      1. Michael1950 Offline
        Michael1950 (Michael) 9 July 2020 00: 09
        -1
        • 0
        • 1
        Azerbaijan is a pleasant exception. It is Azerbaijan that supports trade (including the sale of weapons and combat systems) with Israel. Probably the only Islamic country. And all thanks to the wisdom of Heydar Aliyev, who obviously ordered something to his son Ilham. But Azerbaijan is an exception. However, the mass of citizens of Azerbaijan, Israel hates and stands in solidarity with its enemies.
  • Michael1950 Offline
    Michael1950 (Michael) 9 July 2020 00: 03
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    Quote: Bakht

    The most interesting thing is that I am not an enemy of Israel. I've told. In this matter for me, your outstanding general and politician Yitzhak Rabin serves as an example. But you (not you personally, but Israel) did not like him. He was called a traitor and killed. Verily, "there is no prophet in his own country."
    ----
    We will again enter into a meaningless argument. I am convinced (like Rabin) that there are no impregnable fortresses. There were no such examples in history. And to live in a besieged fortress is to lose sooner or later. So I'm on the side of Israel. It’s just that we see the final goal and the path to it differently. You think that power is everything. I do not think so.

    - Rabin is not a traitor, he is just a fool, and his actions were no better than betrayal. He made an agreement with a gangster, who violated all agreements (he didn’t even think of fulfilling them) and arranged intifada No. 2. As a result of which more than 1000 Israeli citizens (including Arabs) died in suicide bombings. This is how the perpetrator of the death of this 1000 people was killed.
    To consider this idiot Rabin an outstanding statesman is the same as to consider an outstanding statesman the idiot Gorbachev M.S.
    1. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 00: 16
      +2
      • 2
      • 0
      As for the Intifada, then according to all information for Arafat herself, she came as a surprise. I know about the Oslo victims. They also said this to me a long time ago. But Rabin is clearly not a fool. Who was wrong, time will tell. But I would never put him on a par with Gorbachev.
      How to relate to Rabin, this is your business. I find his way to solve the problem more promising. If only because he led the matter to the world. If you prefer war and the calculation of strength, then do not forget the old saying, "Germany lives by the sword, but the sword may become dull."

      In vain here they shrugged off historical experience and the lame Spartan. According to the testament of Lycurgus, it was never possible to fight one enemy twice. After the defeat and injury, one of the gerontos told Agesilaus "Thebans worthy of paying you for the lessons. They could not and did not want to fight. But you learned them." You will teach the Arabs to fight.
  • cpez-lin Offline
    cpez-lin (Michael Anokhin) 9 July 2020 00: 07
    +1
    • 1
    • 0
    Come on, they’ll turn everything into ...!
  • gorenina91 Online
    gorenina91 (Irina) 9 July 2020 04: 57
    +1
    • 2
    • 1
    Irina, do not be a fool. When they asked me a question and I did not answer it?

    I answer you an UNQUESTED question. The rights of Russians in Azerbaijan.

    - Ha .., in the subject:

    “Penny price”: in Kazakhstan are dissatisfied with Putin’s words about “gifts from the Russian people”

    - This question was posed so specifically that even the Rashid116 (Rashid) website visitor even undertook to answer it ... - although the question was not asked to him ...

    -Russian rights in Azerbaijan

    - But was it only about the rights of Russians in Azerbaijan ??? - And in Kazakhstan ??? - And in Turkmenistan ??? - And in Uzbekistan ??? - And in Kyrgyzstan ??? - And in Tajikistan ???
    - Yes here - the whole field is not plowed ... of those states where Russians are sitting "quieter than water and lower than grass" ... - and they are even afraid to make a noise, because they can easily say goodbye to their lives (I’m not exaggerating at all) and local authorities will not even investigate ... such things ...- "live and live quietly for themselves" ...
    - By the way, even in the Baltic states - in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia ... - where too far from everything is smoothly with the rights of the Russian-speaking population ... - But, there even Russian-speaking people are fighting for their rights: they go out to protest; organize meetings; perform in the media and on TV ... etc ...
    - But in the states that I listed before ... -So there Russian-speakers are even afraid to utter a kick ... - I’ll even say more ... - Russian-speakers who live in the states Wed Asia (Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan) ...- so ...- Russian-speaking people living in these states even consider ... that ... that they are Russian-speaking people living in states The Baltic states, simply, to put it mildly ...- have such rights that they are Russian-speaking from the states of Wed. Asia ...- I didn’t even dream ... - Such are the things ...
    - As for "cunning" ... then when a little man simply "got sick" in worries about the fate of Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, etc ...; and at the same time he doesn’t notice that his “yesterday’s brothers” in the USSR have very, very big problems ... - they are forced to vegetate as a third-rate population and have monstrous problems ... - That this little man is not just cunning ..
    1. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 06: 13
      +2
      • 2
      • 0
      Do you know exactly what you are writing about? No one asked me such a question. What does Kazakhstan or Central Asia have to do with it if I live in Azerbaijan? I repeatedly wrote that the rights of Russians were violated in the Baltic countries or in Armenia. And especially in Ukraine. I was in Kazakhstan for the last time about 10 years ago. Identity cards were written in two languages, Russian was the second official language.
      Once again, I repeat to you - no one violates the rights of Russians in Azerbaijan. I will say more - the Azerbaijani police are afraid only of Russian grannies in Baku. Because they immediately write to the Embassy or the Presidential Administration and the answer comes literally in a few hours.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Smart TV Offline
    Smart TV (TV Smart) 9 July 2020 06: 27
    +1
    • 2
    • 1
    The fact is that Israel is bombing either unprotected air defense facilities, or flying through the territory of Jordan, launches guided missiles with a radius of destruction of 500 kilometers, without even crossing the Syrian border !! And to whom, but Syria does not need problems with Jordan either !!
    1. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 9 July 2020 11: 08
      -1
      • 0
      • 1
      Did they tell you this at the Israeli General Staff? Or General Konashenkov? lol
    2. Michael1950 Offline
      Michael1950 (Michael) 11 July 2020 23: 01
      -4
      • 0
      • 4
      You forgot about the downing of the IL-20 of the Russian S-400 - from the crossroads. When planning aerial bombs from Israeli aircraft destroyed an Iranian facility near a Russian base, a few kilometers away. Nobody could shoot down bombs, but they shot down their plane.
  • Michael1950 Offline
    Michael1950 (Michael) 9 July 2020 11: 06
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    Quote: Bakht
    As for the Intifada, then according to all reports, for Arafat herself she came as a surprise.

    And the Second World War came as a surprise to Hitler. And for Stalin. They woke up, stretched, looked back - father! Around the raging some kind of World War II!
    Arafat is the ONLY organizer of Intifada No. 2. Not to understand this is either thoughtlessness or terry demagogy. There is absolute unity of command, this is not the president of the United States, where he must beg Congress to allow one or the other.
    1. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 15: 30
      +1
      • 2
      • 1
      According to some (Israeli) Arafat instigator of Intifada-2. According to other sources (also Israeli), this is a provocation of Israel.
      In any case, Rabin (killed in 1995) is hardly related to Intifada-2 (2000).
      1. Michael1950 Offline
        Michael1950 (Michael) 9 July 2020 16: 36
        -2
        • 1
        • 3
        He has been a rare freak throughout his career. He legitimized Yasser Arafat, who until then was simply the head of a terrorist organization - and thanks to Rabin, he became an internationally recognized political figure. But the dog remained a dog, as subsequent events showed, and Rabin started this mechanism.
        1. Bakht Offline
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 9 July 2020 19: 06
          +2
          • 3
          • 1
          Arafat was an internationally recognized leader before. I once read Kurt Waldheim's book The Highest Position. Y. Arafat spoke from the UN rostrum long before the events described. By the way, C. Waldheim noted that from the UN rostrum, Y. Arafat spoke without a gun. But whether there was a holster on it, I did not understand this.
  • Alexzn Online
    Alexzn (Alexander) 10 July 2020 23: 35
    +1
    • 1
    • 0
    Quote: Bakht
    You won’t ask them. But the name Palestine (in ancient transcription) existed 2500 years ago. Or more. Golda Meir talked about 3000 years.

    The Philistines (Hebrew פלישתים plishtim, Arabic. فلستيون or فلسطيون) - the ancient people who inhabited the coastal part of Palestine (from modern Tel Aviv to Gaza) from the XII century BC. e .. Repeatedly mentioned in the Old Testament (starting with Gen. 10:14), as well as in Assyrian and Egyptian sources.

    I hope the Old Testament was not written by the Romans?

    How to say ... Suppose Mark wrote in part from the words of Peter, who was a Roman. It is possible that he himself was such (judging by the name). Maybe one of the weather forecasters was a Roman.
    1. Michael I Offline
      Michael I (Michael I) 11 July 2020 07: 45
      0
      • 0
      • 0
      The question was about the Old Testament, not the New Testament. But in any case, the Philistines are mentioned in the Old Testament, but not Palestine.
      1. Alexzn Online
        Alexzn (Alexander) 11 July 2020 08: 57
        0
        • 0
        • 0
        To blame. I will be corrected.
      2. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 12 July 2020 15: 28
        +2
        • 2
        • 0
        This is a translation difficulty. Did the Philistines live in Judea? Who lived where, the land was called. From ancient times this land was called Philistine, Then the Jews came and called it Judea, then the Romans came and called it Palestine. And so on ad infinitum.
        Of course, Jews do not like the name Palestine. But why should we count from Titus, and not from the Philistines?
        1. Michael I Offline
          Michael I (Michael I) 12 July 2020 23: 44
          0
          • 1
          • 1
          When the Jews returned to this land from Egyptian slavery, it was called Knaan. The Falistimans lived south, in the Gaza region.
          1. Bakht Offline
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 July 2020 08: 33
            +1
            • 1
            • 0
            I don’t even want to look at the map and read Wikipedia. Philistia was located where the state of Israel is now located.
            But there is one more thing. You wrote

            When the Jews returned to this land from Egyptian slavery

            That is, the Jews did not live there long enough ...
            I have already written several times before and here I recently repeated. I do not accept the story of 2 or 3 thousand years as an argument. For the simple reason that there is no reference point. And there are no exact maps. Well then there was no GPS. And for the simple reason that even in the Sakharov Center and in the book "Issues of Secession" the principle of "historical justice" is recognized as the weakest and most unreasoned.
            Nations were formed in the capitalist era. That is, starting from 15 and ending with 19 centuries. Peoples formed much earlier. But the formation of the people even 2000 years ago does not give the right to land at the present time. In Europe, states began to form as a result of a 30-year war and as a result of the Westphalian peace.

            The Westphalian world was the result of the first modern diplomatic congress (assembly). He laid the foundation for a new order in Europe, based on the concept of state sovereignty.
            1. Michael I Offline
              Michael I (Michael I) 14 July 2020 08: 27
              0
              • 1
              • 1
              Do not believe it, but I agree with you. I wrote exclusively historical facts. But according to the state of Israel, it was created by decision of the UN, with an open vote. But the fact that in 1948 the Palestinian state was not created, the Palestinians and the Arab countries themselves, who refused to recognize Israel, were to blame and attacked it, the day after its proclamation. And by the way, most of the "Palestinian refugees" created these states themselves. They invited the Arabs of Jaffa, Acre, Haifa and other cities and villages, during the war, to collect their belongings and leave for Jordan, for their safety.
              1. Bakht Offline
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 14 July 2020 09: 48
                +2
                • 2
                • 0
                As for the refugees, I do not agree. There are eyewitnesses. The expulsion of the Arabs was authorized by Ben Gurion.
                Yes, the Arabs attacked first. But the Jews attacked first. On May 15, it was the Jews who made the first seizures in Jerusalem. Before the Arab attack.
                1. Michael I Offline
                  Michael I (Michael I) 14 July 2020 11: 18
                  0
                  • 1
                  • 1
                  Did not have. Are there any documents confirming this?
                  It was on May 15 that 5 Arab countries declared war on Israel. When did the Jews attack the Arabs before?
                  1. Bakht Offline
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 14 July 2020 12: 16
                    +2
                    • 2
                    • 0
                    On May 14, Jews began to capture the nodal points of Jerusalem. In the second phase of the war, Jews began to expel Arabs in the vicinity of Tel Aviv.
                    1. Bakht Offline
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 14 July 2020 12: 34
                      +2
                      • 2
                      • 0
                      Israeli polemicists, as a rule, claimed that rumors of mysterious phone calls to Arabs apartments with the words “Get out while you are safe!”, About black marks in the form of six-pointed stars painted with charcoal on the doors of the Arab apartments they liked, are all rubbish. On the contrary, they encouraged the Arabs to stay and live "in peace and harmony."
                      ----
                      April 18, Jews occupied Tiberias - The ancient capital of the Roman governors in the lands of Palestine. In less than a week, as a result of a 24-hour battle, they occupied the large port city of Haifa. At the same time another important port was taken - Jaffa, which actually stood in the city limits of Tel Aviv. By order from London, British troops again entered it to return this port to the Arabs. It turned out that there was no one to return him, since 70 out of 65 thousand of the Arab population fled.
                      ----
                      The attack on the quarter Sheikh Jerra culminated in an equally offensive, albeit not so bloody finale. Here the militants stumbled upon a decisive opposition from the British, and General Jones, the military commander of Jerusalem, considered the Haganah to try to jeopardize the evacuation of his troops to Haifa seaport. Because of this, he took to the streets a battalion of the Highland Light Infantry, supported by tanks and guns on mechtyag. Having seen them, the militants considered it more prudent to disperse without a shot.

                      Having failed in the north and east, Sadeh turned his attention to the south. Here “Hagan” was accompanied by success, but at what a price!

                      So, the time has come to decide the fate of the Catamon quarter.
                      ----
                      The battle for Katamon has begun at dawn on April 30. The main stronghold of the quarter was the Greek Orthodox monastery of Saint-Simon. Its huge building with surrounding buildings dominated all the surrounding areas.

                      The same hero of Castel, David Elazar, commanded the capture group.
                      1. Michael I Offline
                        Michael I (Michael I) 14 July 2020 20: 41
                        +1
                        • 1
                        • 0
                        For some reason, you just started in April, but if you looked earlier?

                        On March 18, the kibbutz Kfar Darom, located in the territory intended for the Arab state, was subjected to massive Arab attacks. In one day, 18 attacks were repelled.

                        On March 24, in the Bab el-Wad gorge (now the Shaar ha-Gai crossroads area), a detachment of the Holy War Army of 300 people intercepted a Jewish convoy on its way to Jerusalem with a load of food. Jews lost 16 of the forty trucks that made up the convoy, and three armored vehicles whose crew died. 3 Jews were killed, 7 injured [51]. Arabs managed to capture one of the armored cars as a trophy. The convoy never managed to break into the city, making the Arab blockade of Jerusalem a fait accompli [52] [53].

                        On March 27, in the region of Nahariya, the Hagana convoy with supplies for the kibbutz of northwestern Galilee was ambushed by the Arab Liberation Army. In the battle killed more than 40 fighters of the "Haganah" [54] [55]. On the night of the same day in Nebi Daniel, on the road from the kibbutz Kfar Etzion to Jerusalem, another Jewish convoy fell into an Arab ambush. The fight lasted all night. By morning, the arriving English forces offered their mediation, and as a result, the survivors were released, but all their weapons passed to the Arabs, including all 19 armored vehicles that were at that time at the disposal of Yishuv. In addition, in this battle, Jews lost from 13 [52] to 15 [56] people killed and up to 73 wounded.
                      2. Bakht Offline
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 14 July 2020 21: 13
                        +1
                        • 1
                        • 0
                        I said that "white and fluffy" are not there. Right. And the Arabs attacked, and the Jews. I questioned the attacks of the Arabs? I would even say that there were more Arab attacks. But there were more of them.
                        -----
                        The question was - were there any terrorist attacks before May 15? There were. At both sides. Are Arabs and Jews expelled from their places? Yes, they were expelled. These were ethnic cleansing. Since Jews occupied more territory, and there were more Arabs, there were Palestinian refugees.
                        ------
                        I have articles from Jewish participants in those events. But I do not give links. For you, he is still a traitor. But from my point of view it is written truthfully.

                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/
                        Victims of the International Confrontation in the Mandatory of Palestine

                        Why do I rely on the book of Smirnov? She is objective, in my opinion. You did not mention the convoy on April 13th.

                        From roofs and windows, from terraces and balconies, from Mount of Olives and Mount Scopus, half of the inhabitants of Jerusalem watched the agony of the convoy on Hadassah Road. Some with triumphant gloating, others with unexpressed pain. It was only after noon that the British began to put forward their armored vehicles, but all the time something was in the way: either they jammed the cannon at the front armored car, or for a long time they decided what kind of smoke shells to fire at the Arab positions. By 15 p.m., it was all over. The besieged did not receive help, and their own strength was exhausted. First, the buses were bombarded with Molotov cocktails, then they simply doused with gasoline and set it on fire. Seeing the flaming bonfires, the British unitedly went on the attack and at 15.30 completely took control of the smoking remains of cars. With varying degrees of burns and injuries, about a dozen people were saved. The result of the death was impressive: 75 people died, of which 24 corpses were not fully identified. All 75 people 6 hours before were absolutely healthy people, and, according to Israeli authors, "they arrived in Palestine to treat, not kill." Their names are given: Chaim Yassky, an internationally renowned ophthalmologist, and his wife, Dr. Yehuda Matot, Esther Passman, Doctor of Sociology and others.

                        There is no doubt that the life of any illiterate Arab peasant woman who died with her innocent child and old father in Deir Yassin was just as valuable. The authors do not draw any parallels or comparisons here, but it is clear that the burned seventy-five did not deserve such a sad fate, as well as such a terrible death.

                        As a result of this day, the entry in the magazine of the Highland Infantry Regiment succinctly read: "... the remnants of the cars were blown up and thrown off the road, after that the traffic was restored again."

                        The Arab side did not apologize for the deed.

                        The fighting began long before May 15, 1948. And both sides excelled.
                      3. Michael I Offline
                        Michael I (Michael I) 15 July 2020 08: 15
                        -1
                        • 0
                        • 1
                        I think you can stop on this optimistic note)
  • Rashid116 Offline
    Rashid116 (Rashid) 13 July 2020 10: 16
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    Where can we, the aboriginal people of Ukraine and the Middle East - "Jewish Bandera" - this is only possible on this leper land.)))))