Aviation unfinished: the Su-57 began to upgrade, without even taking into service


A few days ago it became known that the domestic military-industrial complex intends to turn the fifth-generation fighter Su-57 into the Super Sukhoi, having carried out its deep modernization. It seems to sound great, only this approach raises logical questions for a number of experts.


The modernization of the aircraft itself, which can make it better, is only welcome. First of all, its power plant is subject to replacement. Instead of the AL-41F1 engine, the so-called “product 30” will be installed. If the "old" gave traction of 9500 kgf, and the afterburner - 15000 kgf, then the "thirtieth" will provide a 20% gain: respectively - 11000 kgf and 18000 kgf. The design of the new power plant will reduce the visibility of the fighter in the infrared range, and its speed will increase from 1,1-1,2 M to 1,5 M in afterburner mode.

The control drive system will be radically improved, where the hydraulic mechanisms are planned to be replaced by electric ones. This will make it more reliable to control at high speeds and reduce the radar visibility and weight of the aircraft. The Su-57 chassis will also become electric. Also, the fighter control system will undergo modernization: a panoramic aviation indicator, multi-function screens and a wide-angle collimator sight will appear. An appropriate arms control system will be developed for new generation missiles.

All this is wonderful and will make the Su-57 even more deadly. So why grumble some “unconscious personalities”?

The main complaint is that the aircraft began to undergo profound modernization, without even having time to take it into service. If you look at the experience of our direct competitors, then in the USA new models of weapons are accepted as “blocks”. The Pentagon receives from the manufacturer a relatively small, but, nevertheless, a large series and begins to drive it "in the tail and mane." At the same time, all “childhood diseases” are revealed, information about which is sent to the contractor. Subsequent modernization is already taking into account them. For example, you can take the famous F-16 fighter-bomber with its Block 5, Block 15, Block 40/42, Block 60 and so on.

Now around the world, the fifth-generation American fighter F-35 is criticized for a huge number of imperfections, but their number is constantly decreasing just in the course of such consistent work. As a result, the United States and its allies will have a run-in combat aircraft produced by a large party, in which all shortcomings are eliminated.

If you look at the Su-57 from this angle, then, indeed, questions arise. Why not put in the Russian Air Force the first small batch of 15-20 aircraft, so as to properly drive them in business, and taking into account the experience gained not to make additions to the design? Then put another 15-20 upgraded, etc.? Involuntarily, one has to wonder how real the advanced fighter is, if its first production model crashed during tests in December last year, right before being sent to the troops.

Of course, if the problem is in its "dampness", then an expensive aircraft must be seriously modified. If the matter is in the search for unattainable perfection, then this approach causes quite justified doubts, since it actually turns the project into a long-term construction.
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  1. Binder Offline
    Binder (Miron) 2 July 2020 14: 05
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    Information about the upcoming modernization of the fifth-generation non-existent fighter involuntarily recalls the famous phrase of Panikovsky - "Saw, Shura, saw, they are gold." Only a petty thief and a swindler from Golden Calf could not even dream of such a scale ...
    1. Boragl Offline
      Boragl (Boragl) 2 July 2020 14: 25
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      Quote: Bindyuzhnik
      Information about the upcoming modernization of the fifth-generation non-existent fighter involuntarily recalls the famous phrase of Panikovsky - "Saw, Shura, saw, they are gold." Only a petty thief and a swindler from Golden Calf could not even dream of such a scale ...

      Well, yes, well, yes, live on in your "house". See "cartoons", etc. Russia has already become great. Your envious cries only prove it. And the louder your cries, the more the right way we are going. Live further in the illusory world of the state shit democracy. They will give you more “salty” cookies. Together with some water, so that their "Acheramericans" wash their feet ... although you don’t get used to washing something .... maybe your legs will be cleaner than Polish grades .... you will all benefit.
      1. Cyril Offline
        Cyril (Kirill) 2 July 2020 14: 39
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        maybe the legs will be cleaner Polish sort ...

        You are so knowledgeable about Polish toilets ...
        1. 123 Online
          123 (123) 2 July 2020 14: 56
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          You are so knowledgeable about Polish toilets ..

          Is this the only thing that interested you? winked
          1. Cyril Offline
            Cyril (Kirill) 2 July 2020 15: 00
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            And in his comment, something in general may be of interest?
            1. 123 Online
              123 (123) 2 July 2020 15: 04
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              and in his comment, something in general may be of interest? A person does not even understand that the one to whom he comments so fiercely does not actually live in Ukraine.

              In fairness, your comment on information content is not very different for the better. winked
              Who cares where he lives now? From moving in your head, little changes.
              1. Cyril Offline
                Cyril (Kirill) 2 July 2020 15: 23
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                In fairness, your informational comment is not very different for the better

                My comment consists of one sentence, and it should not be informative.

                Who cares where he lives now? From moving in your head, little changes.

                Do you know where he lived before?
                1. 123 Online
                  123 (123) 2 July 2020 15: 52
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                  Do you know where he lived before?

                  Who cares? The “Novoukrainian” mentality is precisely what was meant. The content of the commentary is quite typical for this "geolocation". hi
                  1. Cyril Offline
                    Cyril (Kirill) 2 July 2020 15: 57
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                    I do not see any national features in this of his comments.
                    1. 123 Online
                      123 (123) 2 July 2020 17: 53
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                      This is logical. Who spoke of national characteristics?
          2. Arkharov Offline
            Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 2 July 2020 17: 27
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            In this verbal delirium, hardly anything can interest anyone at all. Didn't make it out, is it "Agitator's Notebook", or "Truth" for 36 years?
      2. Binder Offline
        Binder (Miron) 2 July 2020 14: 52
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        You just watch cartoons, and you are also proud of the animated achievements of the Russian military-industrial complex, which is understandable - there are no real achievements. laughing And continue to boast of illusory Russian greatness to your health, go on your own “right path”, and meanwhile, speaking on the topic, the fifth-generation American fighter Lockheed, repeatedly rejoiced by the very wise experts from the Zvezda channel and similar mass media Martin F-35 Lightning II is in service in a number of countries, successfully mastered by the pilots there and managed to brilliantly prove itself in solving complex combat missions by Israeli air force pilots who admire the capabilities of this aircraft. Well, the Turks now strongly regret that Erdogan’s games with the purchase of S-400 deprived them of the opportunity to get this fighter.
      3. Winnie Offline
        Winnie (Winnie) 3 July 2020 07: 43
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        Russia has already become great.

        Do you yourself think that you live in a house of blah, blah, blah? Blah, blah, blah great ... Blah, blah, blah mighty ... How can you confirm your words? Nothing! Some shabby "house" you have. Until the first breeze. All your plans will remain plans on paper for one simple reason. Russia is far behind the West technologically due to the lack of a developed industry and electronics. And, as you know, progress does not stand still! But we can’t keep up with him! And this will continue forever (at least until 2036). Non progredi est regredi. (Do not go forward, then go back.) request
    2. sgrabik Offline
      sgrabik (Sergei) 2 July 2020 21: 55
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      Do not smack nonsense, the F-22 was also finished off for much more than ten years, and then for another ten years they were produced in small batches, with constant modifications and upgrades, in all, 187 aircraft were released all the time, several of which were lost during flights.
      1. Binder Offline
        Binder (Miron) 2 July 2020 22: 25
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        Can't you see the differences in the history of the creation of the F-22 and Su-57? I’ll hint - Raptor has been flying for many years and will be used for a long time, and the Su-57 does not fly and fly will not be .
  2. steelmaker Offline
    steelmaker 2 July 2020 14: 26
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    ... why not put in the Russian Air Force the first small batch of 15-20 aircraft, so as to properly drive them into action, and taking into account the experience gained not to make additions to the design?

    We have not accepted this. Moreover, the plane is expensive. And to identify flaws, not necessarily 20 pieces each. to drive in the sky.

    ..experts pay attention to the limited functionality of the radar, which detects the presence of another aircraft, but is not able to guarantee the guidance of airborne weapons. But the main trouble is that the engine, which makes the fighter a fifth-generation aircraft, has not yet been created and nothing concrete is said about the prospects for its creation.

    https://versia.ru/postavki-su-57-v-vojska-otkladyvayutsya-na-neopredelyonnyj-srok

    For me, the main thing is that funding is not cut back and work continues. And what is slow? Well, our government is like that. They have 15 year plans, and with such plans the result will not work out quickly.
  3. Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 2 July 2020 16: 15
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    If we assume that we need not the plane itself, but a process, so as not to lose technology, school, specialists, power, then everything fits together perfectly.

    The plane, Armata and something else are really not needed at the moment. The 3rd generation of Armat rides in the parade, the Su-57 flies 2nd, the article talks about 3-4m.
    Officials from the Sun put forward new assumptions about why this might all come in handy, and that the old can handle it quite well.
    And so - money is saved, the car is improved, electronics are gradually being imported, PR is on, everyone is happy ....
  4. bobba94 Offline
    bobba94 (Vladimir) 2 July 2020 18: 03
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    ..Put a batch of 15-20 in the Air Force and drive as it should ...

    The Su-57 is just about 15-20 aircraft fired and they drive them not one, but three tails and three manes, and test pilots drive them, and drive them on business, but in a regular aviation regiment this Su- 57 quickly curled neck. It seems to me that one can bring one to mind by driving 15-20 aircraft, or they have fired more than 500 F-35s, and now they’re revealing that the dodgy helmet is dangerous for pilots, it turns out that the tail falls off, then the stealth paint does not hold in bad weather, then you can’t hold the supersound for more than 40 seconds, then you need to keep them in the special parking lot. hangars with a special temperature regime ..... I mean, the asymmetric answer is a smart answer, not bullishness, so, they say, they riveted 500 pieces, so we also rivet 500 pieces and begin to butt.
    1. flashgun Offline
      flashgun (flashgun) 4 July 2020 13: 46
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      I live in Zhukovsky, if you know what I’m talking about on Amet Khan of the Sultan. The LII strip is visible from the window. It’s not like three tails and manes, there’s not even a quarter. Nothing flies. Only in front of the MAKS for three weeks is a rumble, the rest of the time silence.

      Not, well, once a month, it happens that the native and familiar sound of air tearing to shreds is given out by pleasant nostalgia in the soul, but this can not even be compared with the intensity of the T-10 tests in the 70s and 80s.
    2. Syoma_67 Offline
      Syoma_67 (Semyon) 12 July 2020 17: 02
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      so we also rivet 500 pieces

      - no longer necessary, they are outdated.
  5. On the fifth turn, everything will become OK.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. Alexander Bobkov (Born in the USSR) 3 July 2020 09: 04
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    As these empty words are tired of it, then the Su-57 will soon go into service, then the Leader of the destroyer, then Zircon, helicopter carriers will soon be laid down and put off, where is all this ??? Tales, or something, they write, where is it really in the hardware ???
  8. Egor 7b7 Offline
    Egor 7b7 4 July 2020 09: 10
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    Quote: Cyril
    maybe the legs will be cleaner Polish sort ...

    You are so knowledgeable about Polish toilets ...

    So from your words, Kiryusha, from your words.
  9. Egor 7b7 Offline
    Egor 7b7 4 July 2020 12: 39
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    Quote: bobba94
    ..Put a batch of 15-20 in the Air Force and drive as it should ...

    The Su-57 is just about 15-20 aircraft fired and they drive them not one, but three tails and three manes, and test pilots drive them, and drive them on business, but in a regular aviation regiment this Su- 57 quickly curled neck. It seems to me that one can bring one to mind by driving 15-20 aircraft, or they have fired more than 500 F-35s, and now they’re revealing that the dodgy helmet is dangerous for pilots, it turns out that the tail falls off, then the stealth paint does not hold in bad weather, then you can’t hold the supersound for more than 40 seconds, then you need to keep them in the special parking lot. hangars with a special temperature regime ..... I mean, the asymmetric answer is a smart answer, not bullishness, so, they say, they riveted 500 pieces, so we also rivet 500 pieces and begin to butt.

    The fact that almost half of the F-35s does not fly in the USA (30% in general, and the remaining 20% ​​somewhere is limitedly combat-ready) is already well known, and why should their “allies” have everything differently? That's exactly the way it is - half of the “foreign” F-35s in all great Holland and Britain also stand “at the fence”. One reason is the lack of spare parts. Well, really it was impossible to predict this? The Pentagon admitted that a significant part of the parts already supplied ... no longer fits!
    1. Syoma_67 Offline
      Syoma_67 (Semyon) 12 July 2020 17: 00
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      The fact that in the United States almost half of the F-35 does not fly

      - it was reported to you from the Pentagon?
  10. Boragl Offline
    Boragl (Boragl) 7 July 2020 13: 37
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    Quote: Cyril
    maybe the legs will be cleaner Polish sort ...

    You are so knowledgeable about Polish toilets ...

    - yes, no matter how much you boast that you earn more by washing than at the factory .... you look and you wouldn’t know how hard “freedom” you get ....
  11. Boragl Offline
    Boragl (Boragl) 7 July 2020 13: 42
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    Quote: flashgun
    I live in Zhukovsky, if you know what I’m talking about on Amet Khan of the Sultan. The LII strip is visible from the window. It’s not like three tails and manes, there’s not even a quarter. Nothing flies. Only in front of the MAKS for three weeks is a rumble, the rest of the time silence.

    Not, well, once a month, it happens that the native and familiar sound of air tearing to shreds is given out by pleasant nostalgia in the soul, but this can not even be compared with the intensity of the T-10 tests in the 70s and 80s.

    Do you think Zhukovsky is the only airfield ??? Now this is a show platform. Didn’t you howl there that planes knocked down caps and it is impossible to live?
  12. Boragl Offline
    Boragl (Boragl) 7 July 2020 13: 48
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    Quote: Winnie
    Russia has already become great.

    Do you yourself think that you live in a house of blah, blah, blah? Blah, blah, blah great ... Blah, blah, blah mighty ... How can you confirm your words? Nothing! Some shabby "house" you have. Until the first breeze. All your plans will remain plans on paper for one simple reason. Russia is far behind the West technologically due to the lack of a developed industry and electronics. And, as you know, progress does not stand still! But we can’t keep up with him! And this will continue forever (at least until 2036). Non progredi est regredi. (Do not go forward, then go back.) request

    No, it doesn’t. Everything is ahead of us, and you are completing your life cycle. I won’t even explain why. You have star-striped curtains in front of your eyes. Let it remain.
  13. Boragl Offline
    Boragl (Boragl) 7 July 2020 13: 52
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    Quote: Winnie
    Russia has already become great.

    Some shabby "house" you have. Until the first breeze

    We have already survived our “breeze” in the 90s. And you?
  14. Syoma_67 Offline
    Syoma_67 (Semyon) 12 July 2020 16: 59
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    after deep modernization

    - why, is he the best in the world?
  15. Egor 7b7 Offline
    Egor 7b7 12 July 2020 18: 31
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    Quote: Syoma_67
    The fact that in the United States almost half of the F-35 does not fly

    - it was reported to you from the Pentagon?

    And not just me. They reported this to the whole world, quite officially. It's amazing how it didn’t reach you ....