SpaceX's lunar Starship version will not return to Earth


After the successful launch of the Crew Dragon manned spacecraft, SpaceX intends to focus entirely on creating the Starship spacecraft and the reusable superheavy Super Heavy rocket. The head of the corporation, Ilon Musk, spoke about further plans and versions of the promising device on Twitter.


Recall that the development of the Starship, designed for deep space flights, started in 2016. The creation of the device is with varying success. At the moment, four prototypes “broke” in tests. However, for an early stage of development, this is quite normal.

Initially, the “bundle” of Starship & Super Heavy was created to deliver passengers and cargo to Mars. But this year, the head of SpaceX demonstrated the design of the lunar version of the spacecraft. It is worth noting that outwardly it is significantly different from the Martian.
In particular, it lacks a heat shield, flaps and shunting engines. Consequently, the device will fly to “one end”, because, if returned to Earth, it simply burns in the atmosphere.

Musk himself declared the “disposability” of the first lunar versions. In his opinion, in the initial stages of the exploration of the moon, a return flight is not needed. These will be unmanned missions, the purpose of which will be to deliver the necessary equipment to the surface of our natural satellite. At the same time, the ship itself can subsequently serve as a temporary base for astronauts, while the main ones will be erected.

As for the shunting engines, heat shield and flaps, they will not be required during the landing on the moon. In this case, the absence of the above elements will reduce the total mass of the ship.

The head of Space X emphasized that during the first missions it will be necessary to deliver as much equipment as possible, which means the ship itself should be as light as possible. About whether in the future the lunar version of Starship will be manned, nothing has been said.
Photos Used: SpaceX
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  1. 123 Online
    123 (123) 10 June 2020 16: 03
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    Here it is. belay It turns out that disposable ships are needed. It all depends on the tasks. And here they told so much that reusability is our everything, the rest is the last century.
    1. Cyril Offline
      Cyril (Kirill) 10 June 2020 19: 43
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      He specified - in the first missions. They will be irregular. Then yes, investing in more complex reusable versions is pointless. If the task is to organize regular scheduled cargo and manned flights, then reusability is needed.

      Flights to the ISS (or any other DOS) or the launch of cargoes into low Earth orbit are regular, so yes, they are disposable in yesterday.

      For the Mask, the Moon is of little interest; he does not see much value in it. His lunar missions are a clean order from NASA. He himself targets Mars. And for Mars, he creates precisely reusable ships.
      1. 123 Online
        123 (123) 10 June 2020 22: 04
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        Flights to the ISS (or any other DOS) or the launch of cargoes into low Earth orbit are regular, so yes, they are disposable in yesterday.

        These are your personal cockroaches in your head. There is one criterion - economic feasibility.

        For the Mask, the Moon is of little interest; he does not see much value in it. His lunar missions are a clean order from NASA. He himself targets Mars. And for Mars, he creates precisely reusable ships.

        No one cares what he is aiming for. They will give him money from the budget - he will build it, they will not give it - he will not. We will wait for the end of the election and see if the gardens bloom on Mars.
        1. Cyril Offline
          Cyril (Kirill) 11 June 2020 08: 00
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          There is one criterion - economic feasibility.

          It is precisely because of it that reusable equipment is needed for regular flights.

          They will give him money from the budget - he will build it, they will not give it - he will not.

          And he does not make Starship on budget money.
          1. 123 Online
            123 (123) 11 June 2020 11: 32
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            It is precisely because of it that reusable equipment is needed for regular flights.

            This is just one of the directions that you can go to reduce costs. If reusable equipment is always cheaper, why not send it to the moon? After all, planning is not an isolated one.

            And "Starship" he does not on budget money

            Let him have fun. He also did not build a hyperlope at the expense of the budget. winked But does he also plan to build cities on Mars?
            1. Cyril Offline
              Cyril (Kirill) 11 June 2020 13: 17
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              If reusable equipment is always cheaper, why not send it to the moon? After all, planning is not an isolated one.

              The first expeditions under the Artemis program will be rare.

              He also didn’t build a hyperlope at the expense of the budget

              Right. And the test bench was built by SpaceX. And this project was not targeted for the company, it is a side project, funded on a residual basis.

              But does he also plan to build cities on Mars?

              He makes a transportation system for delivering people and cargo to Mars. The settlements themselves will be built by others.
              1. 123 Online
                123 (123) 11 June 2020 14: 49
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                The first expeditions under the Artemis program will be rare.

                So on the ISS "atbus" not every hour departs. In the fall, apparently after the election, so as not to take risks, the Dragon may become two-time. And then no more than 2 flights a year were planned. repeat

                Right. And the test bench was built by SpaceX. And this project was not targeted for the company, it is a side project, funded on a residual basis.

                Test bench? belay The tunnel was deigned to promise. winked

                https://www.interfax.ru/business/634377

                And they were not planning to build one, from New York to Washington in 30 minutes. fellow

                https://www.interfax.ru/world/571430

                It’s probably hard to admit that an idol can be screwed up? lol

                What project did it turn out to mean - the target, if it did not grow together, then it was not really wanted? Did I understand correctly? winked
                At Rogozin, almost everything is funded according to the residual principle, but this does not prevent you from discussing his mediocrity. sad I don’t want to dig deep, so, from memory, recently there was malevolent scribble, they say, Roskosmos was left without American orders and now its annual budget, instead of 5 billion, will be only 1,5 billion. For comparison, I drank more than 3 billion on Dragon Mask.

                He makes a transportation system for delivering people and cargo to Mars. The settlements themselves will be built by others.

                Means, again the budget was going to cut. laughing There is no other bottomless source of financing in nature. request
                1. Cyril Offline
                  Cyril (Kirill) 11 June 2020 18: 09
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                  And then no more than 2 flights a year were planned.

                  You forget:

                  And - about purely cargo flights (they will also be carried out on these ships).

                  B - about commercial flights on non-NASA orders (there are already 2 such orders, both for 2021).

                  It’s probably hard to admit that an idol can be screwed up?

                  Hard? In general, never. Even if all his other projects have already gone to tartarar, he has already achieved enough to be respected.

                  What kind of project did you get - does it mean that if it didn’t grow together, then it’s not really wanted? Did I understand correctly?

                  SpaceX, as reflected in its name, is a space company. Those of its programs that relate to astronautics are targeted, those that do not relate are non-targeted. I thought it was easy to understand, but you have a problem with it. Actually, for the implementation of earth transportation projects he created The Boring Company.

                  At Rogozin, almost everything is funded according to the residual principle, but this does not prevent you from discussing his mediocrity

                  I didn’t say anything about Rogozin’s mediocrity.

                  I talk about the inefficiency of Roscosmos. To understand it, just look at the following numbers:

                  The cost of developing the Angara (3 variants of one rocket) is $ 5,3 billion (for 2018), the rocket is still in development and is not used.

                  The cost of developing the Falcon-9 and reusable Dragon (cargo) is $ 1,9 billion (400 million from NASA, 1,5 - the company's own investments). To be honest, we add the cost of developing super-heavy Falcon Heavy ($ 500 million). Total - 2,5 billion. Everything flies, everything is used, and for a long time.

                  For comparison, more than 3 billion were drank on Dragon Mask.

                  I drank - this is when you receive money and do not provide a result.

                  Musk received from NASA 500 million for the development of Crew Dragon (2,6 billion - this is the payment already for launches, not development). For 10 years, developed, successfully launched.

                  The budget of the "Federation" from 2016 to 2025 (that is, it projected expenses) is 832 million dollars. First start is planned only in 2023. The development itself has been underway since 2009.

                  Means, again the budget was going to cut. laughing There is no other bottomless source of financing in nature.

                  There is such a thing as private investment. And they are much, much more state.
                  1. 123 Online
                    123 (123) 11 June 2020 19: 50
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                    And - about purely cargo flights (they will also be carried out on these ships)

                    Will be. yes More than two times nobody will risk sending people on the same ship. But information about the planned "cargo" flights did not come across.

                    B - about commercial flights on non-NASA orders (there are already 2 such orders, both for 2021).

                    I heard that the Americans at the end of 2021 plan to send 4 tourists in orbit to hang out and 2 more on the Union to the ISS.

                    https://www.space.com/spacex-crew-dragon-will-fly-space-tourists.html

                    Since there are 4 places in Dragon, and the ship will not be trusted with the control of the ship, then there will be 2 flights, and if the first is at the end of 2021, then the second, most likely, already in 2022.

                    Hard? In general, never. Even if all his other projects have already gone to tartarar, he has already achieved enough to be respected.

                    Firstly why even? Secondly, is this the only person you respect? Apparently not what But you rush to defend at any mention only of him.recourseApparently, this is not just respect, but a slightly different feeling.smile

                    I talk about the inefficiency of Roscosmos. To understand it, just look at the following numbers:
                    The cost of developing the Angara (3 variants of one rocket) is $ 5,3 billion (for 2018), the rocket is still in development and is not used.
                    The development cost of the Falcon-9 and reusable Dragon (cargo) is $ 1,9 billion (400 million from NASA, 1,5 - the company's own investments).

                    I must disappoint you, dollars were not allocated to the Angara at all, rubles were allocated. The general designer, for example, states that:

                    The construction of the space rocket complex cost Russia about 112 billion rubles.

                    https://www.rbc.ru/society/02/03/2019/5c79ef6a9a79475457a39a84

                    It is unlikely that this amount equals $ 4,5 billion. no But you can’t say anything to present the pet white and fluffy. winked

                    To be honest, we add the cost of developing super-heavy Falcon Heavy ($ 500 million). Total - 2,5 billion. Everything flies, everything is used, and for a long time.

                    More honest? belay To be more honest, it’s worth mentioning the Dragon, only more than $ 3 billion has swelled for it.

                    I drank - this is when you receive money and do not provide a result.

                    I drank - this is when state money is appropriated, the result has nothing to do with it.

                    Musk received from NASA 500 million for the development of Crew Dragon (2,6 billion - this is the payment already for launches, not development). For 10 years, developed, successfully launched.

                    See paragraph above.

                    The budget of the Federation from 2016 to 2025 (that is, projected expenses) is $ 832 million. The first launch is planned only in 2023. The development itself has been underway since 2009.

                    That is why it has been going on for so long. If a comparable amount of funding had been allocated for it, the ship would have been ready for a long time.

                    There is such a thing as private investment. And they are much, much more state.

                    Well, yes, and there are probably fairies and unicorns too? laughing Can you give an example of an investor who is ready to finance the Martian program?
                    1. Cyril Offline
                      Cyril (Kirill) 11 June 2020 21: 22
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                      More than two times nobody will risk sending people on the same ship.

                      Who told you this?

                      But information about the planned "cargo" flights did not come across.

                      At least 6 missions for the second phase of the Commercial Resupply Services program have already been ordered.

                      Firstly, why even?

                      Because so far, everything is fine with his projects. Tesla makes cars, makes profit for several quarters in a row, and production grows. SpaceX - is developing, Starlink - the other day it has either 7 or 8 launches, the total number of satellites in orbit has exceeded 500. Neurolink has released the first prototype of the neurointerface and robot for its implantation, the first animal tests have been carried out.

                      It is unlikely that this amount equals $ 4,5 billion. no But what can you say to imagine a pet white and fluffy

                      Now read your link carefully:

                      Thus, in general, the Angara space rocket complex since its inception and until the end of the year 2014 taking into account two successful launches (the Angara-1.2PP rocket and the Angara-A5 rocket) cost Russia 111,986 billion rubles, calculated ex-CEO Khrunichev Center.

                      Vladimir Nesterov does not work on the Hangar and is not the Director General of the Center. Khrunicheva since 2014. Accordingly, his calculations this year are limited. And in the yard 2020, 6 years have passed.

                      Now watch the interview 2012 yearsgiven by the former director of the Federal Space Agency V. Popovkin of the state radio station Voice of Russia (today renamed Sputnik):

                      “After all, the same Angara cost us more than 160 billion rubles. This is a big figure,” said the head of Roscosmos.

                      You can see it here -

                      https://web.archive.org/web/20121127100202/http://rus.ruvr.ru/2012_07_17/81823744/

                      In 2012, the dollar / ruble rate was approximately 1/30. It turns out just 5,3 billion dollars.

                      Why do the directors of the Federal Space Agency have such different opinions with the director c. Khrunicheva - ask them.

                      But well, let's take the most recent estimates of the cost of the hangar. In 2018, the head of the scientific and technical department of Roscosmos said:

                      I cannot but mention that a total of already been invested in Angara more 110 billion rubles.

                      We will not guess how much “more” (by a couple of millions or a couple of tens of billions), we take the minimum value - 110 billion rubles.

                      At the exchange rate of 2018, 110 billion rubles is 1,6 billion dollars. For $ 1,6 billion (these are the minimum figures for 2018, I repeat) 3 versions of one rocket were created, 2 of which made 1 test flight, after which they were sent for revision. The first launch of the modified rocket is only scheduled for 2020, and full production will begin in 2022. This is at best.

                      For the same year 2018, the Mask already were - a heavy and super-heavy carrier, a reusable orbital truck. Comparable work by volume? Comparable. Costs - 2,5 billion. More than 1,6 billion, but do not forget that 1,6 billion is the prices for 2018, and the Angara has not been finalized so far.

                      More honest? belay To be more honest, it’s worth mentioning the Dragon, only more than $ 3 billion has swelled for it.

                      They swelled much less for development (at least NASA), the bulk of this amount is the payment for the first manned flights.

                      I drank - this is when state money is appropriated, the result has nothing to do with it.

                      That's it - they appropriate. Can you explain the meaning of this word? It is synonymous with "misuse of funds." In other words, when the issued budget money does not go to work, but to your pocket.

                      And the simple implementation of the state contract will be so - the simple implementation of the state contract. I didn’t drink it.

                      This is why it has been going on for so long, if a comparable amount of financing had been allocated for it, the ship would have been ready for a long time.

                      A comparable amount of funding was allocated to him. In my last comment I wrote to you in detail.

                      Well, yes, and there are probably fairies and unicorns too?

                      You probably have.

                      Can you give an example of an investor who is ready to finance the Martian program?

                      Now? Of course not. Because there is no reliable and relatively inexpensive interplanetary transport system. If the mask succeeds in making it, investors will also appear. Both private and public. Before the creation of ships capable of sailing across the ocean and returning back, there were no investors in the American colonies either. Neither private nor public. But such ships appeared - investors appeared.
                      1. 123 Online
                        123 (123) 11 June 2020 22: 56
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                        Who told you this?

                        Common common sense and logic. They are planning another flight with astronauts, once next year cargo flights are planned on Dragon, so this will be the same ship. Or do you think that people will continue to fly on this, and will build a new Dragon for cargo flights? Passenger for cargo?

                        At least 6 missions for the second phase of the Commercial Resupply Services program have already been ordered.

                        And for what year?

                        Because so far, everything is fine with his projects. Tesla makes cars, makes profit for several quarters in a row, and production grows.

                        Q4 2019 - 112 cars sold; Q000 1 - 2020 cars sold.

                        https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/

                        Only stocks grow, they, as always, in the United States live their own lives. Production fell 25%, while stocks rose 17%. laughing

                        SpaceX - is developing, Starlink - the other day it’s either 7 or 8 launch, the total number of satellites in orbit has exceeded 500.

                        Does the system work?

                        Neurolink released the first prototype of a neurointerface and a robot for its implantation; the first animal tests were conducted.

                        Rats with USB in the head? Disgusting horror. Where is Gretta looking? Another would be torn to pieces for this.

                        https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+inc+nasdaq&oq=tesla+inc&aqs=

                        Vladimir Nesterov does not work on the Hangar and is not the Director General of the Center. Khrunicheva since 2014. Accordingly, his calculations this year are limited. And in the yard 2020, 6 years have passed.
                        And now we are watching the 2012 interview given by the former director of the Federal Space Agency V. Popovkin of the state radio station Voice of Russia (today renamed Sputnik):

                        You do not like the data of the retired general designer for 2014? Say, is it already 2020 in the yard? belay And give the data for 2012, given by a man who was dismissed in 2013? You never cease to amaze me. laughing

                        On October 10, 2013, by order of the Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev, he was relieved of his post as head of the Federal Space Agency of the Russian Federation.

                        Now read your link carefully:

                        I read it.

                        Thus, in general, the Angara space rocket complex from its inception to the end of 2014 taking into account two successful launches (Angara-1.2PP rocket and Angara-A5 rocket) cost Russia 111,986 billion rubles., calculated by the ex-general director of the Center Khrunichev.

                        In addition to these launches, the cost of the program includes, for example, the modernization of Polet’s facilities.



                        So, all your calculations are not correct.no

                        That's it - they appropriate. Can you explain the meaning of this word? It is synonymous with "misuse of funds." In other words, when the issued budget money does not go to work, but to your pocket.
                        And the simple implementation of the state contract will be so - the simple implementation of the state contract. I didn’t drink it.

                        You are a strange person, it is in the execution of the state contract that the budget is being sawed and used by private firms for this. You won’t find the exact definition, I can offer this:

                        https://otvet.mail.ru/question/63070335

                        Now? Of course not. Because there is no reliable and relatively inexpensive interplanetary transport system. If the mask succeeds in making it, investors will also appear. Both private and public. Before the creation of ships capable of sailing across the ocean and returning back, there were no investors in the American colonies either. Neither private nor public. But such ships appeared - investors appeared.

                        If you succeed .... will appear ..... Who? Name? Both private and public .... Apart from the state, no one has such free funds.

                        In general, you can with the tenacity of a fanatic with foam at the mouth to protect your pet, but away from the topic.

                        Flights to the ISS (or any other DOS) or the launch of cargoes into low Earth orbit are regular, so yes, they are disposable in yesterday.

                        I still do not see the rationale for this thesis. request
                      2. Cyril Offline
                        Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 23: 55
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                        They are planning another flight with astronauts, once next year cargo flights are planned on Dragon, which means that this will be the same ship.

                        And how does this prove this statement?

                        More than two times nobody will risk sending people on the same ship.

                        What, alternate cargo and manned missions, as well as combine them on the same ship (recall, Dragon has a large trunk under the capsule itself) is not possible?

                        And for what year?

                        Until 2003.

                        Q4 2019 - 112 cars sold; Q000 1 - 2020 cars sold.

                        You recall that in the 1st quarter of 2020, there would be a global epidemic on the planet that hit demand in all areas and at all companies except food and medicine? People lost their jobs in thousands, what will they buy cars for?

                        Rats with USB in the head? Disgusting horror.

                        Oh, in your pink world does medicine dispense with animal experiments?

                        You do not like the data of the retired general designer for 2014? Say, is it already 2020 in the yard? And give the data for 2012, given by a man who was dismissed in 2013? You never cease to amaze me.

                        I gave you a quote from the head of the FCA (future Roskosmos), who already in 2012, estimated the cost of developing the Angara at 160 billion rubles. Do you not believe the former head of the Russian space industry?

                        There is nothing surprising in my words, you just need to turn on your head and read carefully.

                        In addition to these launches, the cost of the program includes, for example, the modernization of Polet’s facilities.

                        So in the cost of developing the Falcon-9 and the freight Dragon, test launches were also included. Moreover, the Mask for this did not have to upgrade production facilities, but to organize them from scratch.

                        So my calculations are absolutely correct.

                        You are a strange person, it is in the execution of the state contract that the budget is being sawed and used by private firms for this.

                        I explain again. Money received under a state contract can be worked out by showing an adequate result. This is called normal government contract work. And you can spend it without showing an adequate result, either inefficiently wasting them, or simply stealing. And now this is already called "cut."

                        Done this by a private company or state-owned - it does not matter.

                        In addition to the state, no one has such free funds.

                        Do you know how much private company Bayer bought Monsanto? For 65 billion dollars. And in 2013, Bill Gates donated $ 28 billion to a fund named after himself. And these are far from the largest examples of private money investing. Assets of some investment companies reach hundreds of billions of dollars.

                        In general, you can with the tenacity of a fanatic with foam at the mouth to protect your pet, but away from the topic.

                        I give you specific examples. If you see fanaticism in this - well, your problem.
                      3. Cyril Offline
                        Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 00: 08
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                        Oh yes, I forgot about this:

                        Does the system work?

                        Yes, they launched beta testing of Starlink.
                      4. isofat Offline
                        isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 00: 53
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                        - Does the system work?
                        - Yes, they started beta testing Starlink.

                        Cyril! This means that the system is still being tested. smile
                      5. Cyril Offline
                        Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 02: 28
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                        It also means that the system works, albeit in beta format. No one tests a broken system by definition.
                      6. isofat Offline
                        isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 13: 30
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                        Quote: Cyril
                        It also means that the system works, albeit in beta format. No one tests a broken system by definition.

                        Clear. Thanks for the explanation! I now realized why the Mask explodes. smile
                      7. Cyril Offline
                        Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 13: 45
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                        ... everything explodes.

                        - "all" - what is this? Falcons, Dragons fly normally.
          2. Cyril Offline
            Cyril (Kirill) 11 June 2020 21: 46
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            What about this passage ":

            But you rush to defend at any mention only of him. recourse Apparently, this is not just respect, but a slightly different feeling.smile

            ... then everything is simple. On this site, space news mostly revolves around either Mask or Roscosmos. Roscosmos does not show any outstanding results. Musk - demonstrates. Therefore, I admire him. I do not see anything religious (as you try to ascribe) in admiration for a talented, proactive and accomplished person.

            If Rogozin had such achievements, he would have admired him. If the Russian S7 had such achievements, I would have admired it.

            They would write on the site about other talented cosmonauts - for example, Peter Beck (the founder and leader of the Rocketlab) or the same Bezos, Branson - who have already achieved something in this area (at least created prototypes, conducted successful test launches) , I would have admired them in the comments here, and would have rushed to their defense.
            1. 123 Online
              123 (123) 12 June 2020 20: 22
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              On this site, space news mostly revolves around either Mask or Roscosmos. Roscosmos does not show any outstanding results. Musk - demonstrates. Therefore, I admire him. I don’t see anything religious (as you try to ascribe) in admiration for a talented, proactive and accomplished person.

              This is your personal opinion and no more. hi
            2. Cyril Offline
              Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 21: 31
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              The opinion, supported by the specific actions of this person.
            3. 123 Online
              123 (123) 12 June 2020 21: 55
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              opinion, supported by the specific actions of this person.

              Specific actions? You are ready to grab anyone's throat, with religious confidence in his infallibility. laughing You are not interested in reality. request

              Flights to the ISS (or any other DOS) or the launch of cargoes into low Earth orbit are regular, so yes, they are disposable in yesterday.
              I still do not see the rationale for this thesis.
            4. Cyril Offline
              Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 22: 04
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              Specific actions?

              Exactly. The creation of a reusable carrier (including a superheavy one), a reusable truck, now also a manned reusable ship, a serial electric car that is not inferior to cars with ICE, the creation of a prototype of an implantable neurointerface - these are specific actions.

              You are not interested in reality

              Do you deny the reality of all of the above? Well, it happens, well.

              I still do not see the rationale for this thesis.

              It’s not your fault that you have a long period of denial.
            5. 123 Online
              123 (123) 12 June 2020 22: 22
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              it’s not your fault that you have a long period of denial.

              I have? belay I asked a simple question.

              Flights to the ISS (or any other DOS) or the launch of cargoes into low Earth orbit are regular, so yes, they are disposable in yesterday.
              The rationale for this thesis is still not see.

              I didn’t hear anything intelligible. request
              Only a repetition of the religious mantra - Musk made a reusable rocket, cargo and manned ships, an electric car and implanted a USB into the head of a rat, so he is always right.

              By the way, "an electric car that is not inferior to cars with internal combustion engines" - what else? What is not inferior? smile
            6. Cyril Offline
              Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 22: 27
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              I have?

              Yeah, you have it.

              I haven’t heard anything intelligible

              It’s not your fault that you are deaf / blind and you have a protracted stage of denial))

              Only a repetition of the religious mantra - Musk made a reusable rocket, cargo and manned ships, an electric car and implanted a USB into the head of a rat, so he is always right.

              First, I never said that "he is always right." I discuss its specific products, which are brought to the stage of operation. The effectiveness of these products (at least the launch vehicle and the space truck) has been proven by practice.

              is that what? What is not inferior?

              In driving performance, safety, comfort.
            7. 123 Online
              123 (123) 12 June 2020 22: 49
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              First, I never said that "he is always right." I discuss its specific products, which are brought to the stage of operation. The effectiveness of these products (at least the launch vehicle and the space truck) has been proven by practice.

              You do not discuss, but repeat the mantras. no
              We discussed a little different.

              Flights to the ISS (or any other DOS) or the launch of cargoes into low Earth orbit are regular, so yes, they are disposable in yesterday.
              The rationale for this thesis is still not see.

              This is the fourth or fifth repetition and not a single sane word in response. request
              Talking with the sectarians is futile. Good night. hi

              PS

              In driving performance, safety, comfort.

              Almost all electric cars are not inferior to cars with internal combustion engines in terms of safety and comfort. yes You attribute to the Mask non-existent feats. Everything that the right hand of the great guru touched is holy? winked
            8. Cyril Offline
              Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 23: 03
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              This is the fourth or fifth repetition, and not a single sane word in response

              The sane answer was to you. The fact that you are not capable (or rather, do not want) to realize it is your problem, not mine.

              Almost all electric cars are not inferior to cars with internal combustion engines in terms of safety and comfort

              But before his Tesla was inferior in driving performance.

              You attribute to the Mask non-existent feats.

              Prior to his Tesla Model C, there was no electric car with driving characteristics comparable to cars on an internal combustion engine. Close to this was the Nissan Leaf, but it was much inferior in power reserve. The Tesla Model C could drive at a speed of 80 km / h for a distance of more than 400 km - quite comparable to cars on an internal combustion engine.
            9. 123 Online
              123 (123) 12 June 2020 23: 06
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              Do not bother. Mantras of sectarians are not interesting. hi
            10. Cyril Offline
              Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 23: 09
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              You're strange. I give you examples of specific achievements of the Mask companies, and you call this "sectarianism". I say, you have a protracted stage of denial. Well, OK.
          3. isofat Offline
            isofat (Sergei) 12 June 2020 23: 07
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            Quote: Cyril
            The sane answer was to you. The fact that you are not capable (or rather, do not want) to realize it is your problem, not mine.

            I did not see either. Cite. You are welcome! smile
            You are very smart!
          4. Cyril Offline
            Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 23: 10
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            I did not see either.

            You generally even if you chew and put your mouth - you still will not see.
          5. isofat Offline
            isofat (Sergei) 12 June 2020 23: 13
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            Quote: Cyril
            You generally do not even see if you chew and put in your mouth.

            You just write, sensibly. And do not forget to answer questions.
          6. Cyril Offline
            Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 23: 16
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            You just write, sensibly.

            I wrote sensibly.

            And do not forget to answer questions.

            I answer the normally posed questions.
  2. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 12 June 2020 22: 05
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    Quote: Cyril
    opinion, supported by the specific actions of this person.

    CyrilDo not impose your subjective opinion on others. On the site everyone already knows that you are a fan of Ilona Mask. smile
  3. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 22: 08
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    do not impose your subjective opinion on others.

    Oh, I forgot to ask you, sorry, sorry (this is sarcasm).
  4. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 12 June 2020 22: 29
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    Quote: Cyril
    I forgot to ask you, sorry, sorry

    Cyril, since memory fails you, I will often remind myself. You still forgot that advertising should be placed in another place and pay money for it. smile
  5. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 22: 32
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    once memory fails you

    And you fail to read the words in brackets.

    I will often remind myself.

    You can not bother.

    that advertising should be placed elsewhere

    I do not do this.
  6. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 12 June 2020 23: 01
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    Quote: Cyril
    You can not bother

    It will not be difficult for me at all. smile

    Does it not seem strange to you that for a country that has repeatedly visited the Moon, it is somehow wrong to admire independent flights to the ISS?

    Мы constantly fly there. And we even earn some money by delivering other astronauts to the ISS. smile
  7. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 12 June 2020 23: 15
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    Doesn't it seem strange to you that for a country that has repeatedly visited the Moon, it is somehow wrong to admire independent flights to the ISS

    But now it was not a whole country that did it, but one company.

    We fly there all the time.

    Still the whole country would not fly. Yes, and on ships with missiles that were developed in the distant 60s. But to develop a new medium (even one-time) - there is something a problem with this.
  8. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 12 June 2020 23: 20
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    Cyril I do not see the answer to his question.

    Does it not seem strange to you that for a country that has repeatedly visited the Moon, it is somehow wrong to admire independent flights to the ISS?

    You are probably very smart. smile
  9. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 00: 00
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    I do not see the answer to my question.

    Do you repeat once again that this is now not done by an entire country, but by one company with 8000 employees? By comparison, the Khrunichev center developing the Angara has 45 or more people.
  10. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 00: 40
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    Quote: Cyril
    Do you repeat once again that this is now not done by an entire country, but by one company with 8000 employees?

    CyrilBut did I ask you - An entire country or a private company made it possible to independently deliver their astronauts to the ISS?

    No! I asked you - doesn’t it seem strange to you that for a country that has repeatedly visited the Moon, it is somehow wrong to admire independent flights to the ISS?

    If you can, answer. You are welcome! smile
  11. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 02: 26
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    Cyril, did I ask you - A whole country or a private company made it possible to independently deliver their astronauts to the ISS?

    No! I asked you - doesn’t it seem strange to you that for a country that has repeatedly visited the Moon, it is somehow wrong to admire independent flights to the ISS?

    So I’m saying that you don’t know how to ask questions.
  12. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 13: 01
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    Quote: Cyril
    So I’m saying that you don’t know how to ask questions.

    When we finally found out that I don’t know how to ask questions, thank you for that! You can finally not tell me:

    - Doesn’t it seem strange to you that for a country that has repeatedly visited the Moon, it is somehow wrong to admire independent flights to the ISS?

    PS I am impressed that I am talking with a smart girl like you, and I invite everyone to read this thread of our discussion. Let readers, like me, admire your intellect, which is not afraid of any question. At least right, at least wrong. smile
  13. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 13: 47
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    You can finally not tell me.

    I already answered this your question, read carefully.

    But questions - yes, you do not know how to ask.
  14. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 02: 44
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    Although, even if you answer this incorrectly asked question:

    No! I asked you - doesn’t it seem strange to you that for a country that has repeatedly visited the Moon, it is somehow wrong to admire independent flights to the ISS?

    - No, it doesn’t. Cosmonautics is an area in which past merits are not a guarantee of present merits. Creating a new ship or carrier still remains a very difficult technical task, regardless of whether the country has done something similar before or not. Russia, possessing the undoubted past merits in the creation of space technology, has not yet "can repeat" neither the creation of a new ship, nor a new carrier. Although the carrier (Angara) is not even reusable. It really is nothing new, unlike Falcon.

    Personally, I am sure that you will, figuratively speaking, jump out of your pants with joy if Russia does complete the successful development of the Angara and Federation, if it successfully launches its AMS again to the Moon, to Mars or Venus. Although she already did all this. Incidentally, I will also be sincerely glad of this.
  15. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 13: 46
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    CyrilAt this stage in its development, the United States is fighting racism, but so far without success. Even the former South African Republic with his company, Ilon Musk, overtook this country. He is not a competitor to us, but if you like cheering for a weak team, please.
  16. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 13: 51
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    At this stage in its development, the United States is fighting racism, but so far without success.

    In the years of flights to the Moon, the USA "fought against racism", which did not stop them from landing their astronauts)) Which, incidentally, the "non-racist" USSR could not do.

    Even the former South African Republic and its company overtook this country.

    He did not overtake this country - he was in it and achieved his success.

    He is not a competitor to us

    Yes, yes, that's what Rogozin himself calls him a competitor)) He’s lying, go.
  17. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 14: 30
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    Cyril you see, you do not deny that racism wins in the USA. They "forgot how" to fly to the moon. A private company was able to send the crew to the ISS, which the United States can only dream of.

    I’ll tell you a secret, in the USA they publish books in which they prove - flying to the moon is a swindle.

    For objectivity and paying tribute to justice, I note that the only thing the Americans succeeded in was in Advertising and Packaging.
  18. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 14: 46
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    you see, you do not deny that racism wins in the USA.

    About "winning" I did not say anything. I don’t deny that racism is there.

    They "forgot how" to fly to the moon

    Exactly. How Russia has forgotten how to make rockets and interplanetary AMS. The Americans also have to re-conquer the moon almost from scratch.

    A private company was able to send the crew to the ISS, which the United States can only dream of.

    This private company and provided access to the United States in space.

    I’ll tell you a secret, in the USA they publish books in which they prove - flying to the moon is a swindle.

    Firstly, this is not a secret for anyone. Secondly, these books do not "prove" anything. Thirdly, I do not deny that among Americans there are also a lot of "especially gifted" conspiracy theorists.

    For objectivity

    Funny.

    the only thing the Americans succeeded in was in Advertising and Packaging.

    Real flights to the moon have indeed become a good advertisement for US technological power. Here I agree.
  19. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 15: 26
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    Quote: Cyril
    The Americans also have to re-conquer the moon almost from scratch.

    Cyril, first "chairs", then respect for the United States. The country of racists does not cause respect. South African Musk, he did not get used to, may still linger in the States, but not a fact.

    Yes, still ... Americans, if there are any, try not to threaten this president too, otherwise you have almost a tradition. smile
  20. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 15: 55
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    The country of racists does not cause respect.

    Yes, somehow do not care who you have there respect and who does not. The fact is that the USA made 6 flights to the moon, but the USSR did not.

    try not to threaten this of his president, otherwise you have almost a tradition.

    To Russia, in which at least 3 kings were killed, and the rest were assassinated, the Americans are far from here.
  21. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 16: 13
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    Quote: Cyril
    To Russia, in which at least 3 kings were killed, and the rest were assassinated, the Americans are far from that

    CyrilDo not be shy, the success of the United States over 250 years of existence is very impressive. And if Russia has the past, then the USA has the present.

    Racism is the harsh everyday life of a modern US country. Do you know how many presidents killed or attempted to kill, in such a short time, the Americans?
    You can count other presidents too. The sample is 250 years old, for objectivity.
  22. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 16: 49
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    Do not be shy, the success of the United States over 250 years of existence is very impressive.

    Over 250 years of US existence, 4 American presidents were killed, the last assassination in 1961. During the same time of the existence of Russia (from the end of the 18th century to the beginning of 21) 3 kings were killed, all other rulers (all without exception) were also assassinated, and more than once.

    At least 7 attempts were made on the current president. It is only famous.

    I hastened to the fact that the Americans are far from us, but certainly not the inhabitants of Russia, to ironic over the "tradition of assassination."

    Racism is the harsh everyday life of a modern US country.

    Racism in Russia is also a harsh everyday life.

    So, in 2004, the honored test pilot of the Russian Federation and Hero of Russia Magomed Tolboev, an Avar by nationality, was beaten up by the patrol police of Moscow for no reason [47].

    In 2013, police officers from St. Petersburg detained a Russian citizen of Tuvan nationality, Kudurek Soskal, who was mistaken for an illegal migrant from Central Asia. Police mistreated Soskal, accusing the latter of forging a passport and illegally obtaining Russian citizenship. During an illegal search in his rented apartment, the police discovered an allegedly fake registration card. The case was brought to court, where the Kalininsky district prosecutor stated that "there is no such nationality in Russia - Tuvans as the Republic of Tuva itself." The prosecution initially demanded to deport Soskal from the country, but later, realizing his mistake and fearing the consequences, he insisted on a fine of 10 thousand rubles. At the same time, none of the police, prosecutors and courts have been punished for inciting ethnic hatred [48].

    In 2017, Voronezh police officers demanded that two Chechens walking with a baby on the street show their passport. Unable to get an answer, police officers tried to put a minor Chechen in a patrol car. Standing around a woman, surrounded by a Chechen woman, aggressively shouted: “Go to your Churkistan!” [49].

    And these are just manifestations of police racism. With household things are even worse.
  23. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 17: 16
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    Quote: Cyril
    Racism in Russia is also a harsh everyday life.

    Well, what do you answer? Thought, thought ... and decided, you have not received good marks from me for a long time. I bet you 5+!
    (For a lie) smile
  24. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 17: 26
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    (For a lie)

    laughing laughing The incident with Tolboev - https://www.buran.ru/htm/str129.htm

    The incident with Kudurek Soskal - https://newdaynews.ru/northwest/451204.html

    When the prosecutor says that such a nationality as Tuvan does not exist - this, of course, is never racism))

    Incident with Chechen girls - https://www.interfax.ru/russia/572589

    I understand that you have problems with fact checking. But these are your problems, not mine.
  25. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 17: 31
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    I have already given you a good grade. Then you can not try. Moreover, without even opening links, I see only one incident. smile
  26. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 17: 37
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    Moreover, without even opening links

    "I have not read, but I condemn." laughing This is so Soviet.

    I see only one incident.

    Your vision problems are your problems.
  27. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 17: 57
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    CyrilSorry, there are three of them. Three incidents. smile
  28. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 18: 14
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    The presence of three incidents already indicates that Russian law enforcement agencies also allow manifestations of racism on their part. And this is only the data from Wiki found in 2 minutes of search. I did not even look at other sources on police racism in the Russian Federation.

    https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/parametry-ksenofobii-rasizma-i-antisemitizma-v-sovremennoi-rossii/viewer

    - and here is a study on domestic racism in Russia.

    46 percent of respondents have a negative attitude to Roma, 29 - to Chechens.

    So, blaming the US for racism, start with your country.
  29. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 18: 24
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    Quote: Cyril
    So, blaming the US for racism, start with its country.

    Cyrilwith its or with our? The United States no longer needs to be accused of racism. Racism in this country is an established fact. You are behind the times.

    PS Sorry, but I don’t have time for racists anymore!
  30. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 18: 30
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    Cyril, with ours or ours?

    With ours, with ours.

    Racism in this country is an established fact.

    As well as in Russia.
  31. magma Offline
    magma (Tatyana) 14 June 2020 08: 17
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    The fact is that the USA made 6 flights to the moon, but the USSR did not.

    An assertion that cannot be confirmed is called an assumption or opinion, but not a fact.
  32. Cyril Offline
    Cyril (Kirill) 14 June 2020 19: 18
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    An assertion that cannot be confirmed is called an assumption or opinion, but not a fact.

    The fact of Americans flying to the moon has a ton of evidence that no one is hiding. The fact that some of this evidence is rejected is their problem.
  33. isofat Offline
    isofat (Sergei) 13 June 2020 14: 03
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    PS I mean - America (USA) is fighting racism. I did not have time to fix it, I'm sorry.
  • Indifferent Offline
    Indifferent 10 June 2020 17: 57
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    Nobody will fly anywhere! This is called sawing a huge dough. They will cut for a long time and with concentration. Then they will send this piece of iron to the moon. She will break. They say - the norm, it should be so! And they will send again. And again failure! And so, until Musk grows old and retires. And there let his followers continue. It’s like in that joke about a Jewish scientist.

    An adult son runs to his father and shouts:
    - Dad! I finally solved this equation?
    “How will you feed your family now?” - the elderly father asks. - Your grandfather solved this equation all his life, I solved all my life, and you took it and decided!
  • steelmaker Offline
    steelmaker 10 June 2020 21: 21
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    Sings beautifully". But for me, something else is interesting. Mask has a plan, fantastic, but a plan. Rogozin nothing sensible, even fantastic, to sound about the moon is not able. And where is the money spent? Musk strives for progress, this is evident.
  • shadow Offline
    shadow 10 June 2020 21: 37
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    Why buy a regular ticket to the Unions from the Russians, if Max can send astronauts to the ISS? And you are about the moon. They were there and returned, but here it is.)
  • EXPrompt Offline
    EXPrompt (EXPrompt) 10 June 2020 22: 30
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    Musk did not explain at all, fig a man on the moon. So, while this cut the budget, nothing more.
  • cmonman Offline
    cmonman (Garik Mokin) 11 June 2020 01: 40
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    Today an interesting article was published in English - “Rogozin’s complaints about American jokes.”

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-space-chief-complains-american-152328038.html

    According to the head of the Russian space agency, Americans should show more respect for the Russian space program, relying on it for nine years as the only way to send US astronauts into orbit.

    In a column of the Russian version of Forbes this week, the head of Roskosmos Dmitry Rogozin complained that the Americans still do not take the Russian space program as seriously as their own.

    When our partners finally managed to conduct a successful test on their spaceship, there was nothing for us but jokes and bullying, ”Rogozin complained.

    Our country was the first to send man into space, ”Rogozin wrote. "We remain the first to this day."

    I really like his phrase - "We remain the first to this day" !!! Those. you Americans, puff out as much as you want with your Moon / Mars / and other flights, but we, even nowhere without flying, will remain the first !!!
    Class !!! So, Russians, do not worry about success in space - the flight of 1961 is enough !!!
    1. isofat Offline
      isofat (Sergei) 11 June 2020 02: 40
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      Together with the Russians Sergey Ryzhikov and Sergey Kud-Sverchkov, the astronaut Kate Rubins will leave for the six-month mission to participate in the six-month mission as a flight engineer and crew member of expedition 63/64. They will fly to the space station on the Soyuz MS-17 spacecraft. The launch is planned on October 14, 2020 from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. NASA will pay $ 90 for this.

      PS I read an interesting article - "Media: Putin refused to send Trump military from Russia to protect the White House." smile

      https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2020/06/08/smi-putin-otkazal-trampu-prislat-voennyh-iz-rossii-dlya-ohrany-belogo-doma
      1. Natan bruk Offline
        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 11 June 2020 11: 37
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        This is a fake that only very naive and gullible people can take seriously.
        1. isofat Offline
          isofat (Sergei) 11 June 2020 11: 59
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          Natan brukDo not be naive. I feed this miracle with the food to which he is accustomed. This is the answer to his "treats."
      2. 123 Online
        123 (123) 12 June 2020 23: 43
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        I read an interesting article - "Media: Putin refused to send trump military from Russia to protect the White House"

        Thank you, neighing from the heart. laughing
        Mocking Trump, and now he is not easy. In Seattle, the separatists, and the Russian consulate is closed. Hurried up. repeat And who is to blame now? winked
  • Cheburgen Offline
    Cheburgen 13 June 2020 13: 52
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    Quote: Cyril
    Falcons, Dragons fly normally

    Challenger and Columbia also flew cool.
    1. Cyril Offline
      Cyril (Kirill) 13 June 2020 14: 00
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      Shuttles out of 135 flights only 2 ended in disaster. By the way, the “Unions” had the same number of disasters.