New energy carrier: Russia is ready to offer Europe an alternative to gas

If the German authorities plan to refuse gas supplies from Russia, then they are unlikely to succeed. The fact is that hydrogen can soon take the place of fossil gas, which Gazprom is ready to transport. About this writes the German edition of Deutsche Welle.

Germany is preparing its pipelines for pumping environmentally friendly fuels - hydrogen. It is assumed that the restructuring of the entire gas pipeline system for hydrogen will occur by 2030. Russian Gazprom turned out to be prepared for such a turn of events - the European subsidiaries of the concern agree and are ready to supply new fuel to Germany. Both Nord Stream, as well as their land threads Eugal and Opal will be almost fully involved in the new project.

German experts also note that Gazprom’s subsidiary in Germany, Gascade, agrees with the new concept of hydrogen supplies and makes its proposals for energy supply to Germany in the future when traditional fossil gas will not be used.

The authorities of Germany are concerned that, moving away from one type of dependence on Moscow, the country falls into another - hydrogen:

The main gas transportation capacities capable of supplying fuel to the whole of Germany are under the control of Gazprom and its subsidiaries. The Russian gas corporation will also own a hydrogen production station. In addition, the Russian Federation can build electrolysis plants on its territory to preserve the European fuel market.

- notes Deutsche Welle.

GRF Offline

GRF 27 May 2020 13: 24

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"I do not want to comment on this in any way, but I don’t understand what you’ll drown?" asked V. Putin. “You don’t want gas, you don’t develop nuclear energy. Will you heat wood?” he continued. After a short pause, caused by a loud laugh in the hall, V. Putin stated that the Germans and “have to go to Siberia for firewood”. "You have no firewood."

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boriz Offline

boriz (boriz) 27 May 2020 13: 25

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Unclear. Knowledgeable experts say that under hydrogen all pipes must be replaced. Conventional gas can’t stand it, something in chemistry, I don’t know.

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1. Dear sofa expert. Offline
  
  Dear sofa expert. 27 May 2020 16: 09
  
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  Unclear. Knowledgeable experts say that under hydrogen all pipes must be replaced. Ordinary gas can’t stand it, something in chemistry, I don’t know ...
  
  Now I read the Germans. They write that it is possible.
  
  https://www.dvgw.de/medien/dvgw/gas/infrastruktur/ptg_werkstofffragen_1409.pdf
  
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2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
  
  Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 27 May 2020 19: 07
  
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  Quote: boriz
  Conventional gas can’t stand it, something in chemistry, I don’t know.
  
  Hydrogen dissolves well in iron (solid), turning it into a hydride - which is usually a powder. It is necessary to enamel all pipes from the inside with a special glass.
  
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3. Peter Rusin Offline
  
  Peter Rusin (Peter Rusin) 28 May 2020 09: 55
  
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  And if you don’t know why you are writing?
  
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Bakht Offline

Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 27 May 2020 13: 47

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Recently discussed Ilona Mask. So his opinion is that this is an “absolutely dead end”. Although, maybe this is due to the fact that hydrogen displaces (or can displace) battery cars.
From a chemistry course (school) - Hydrogen - a colorless, odorless gas. Explosive in contact with oxygen or ordinary air. If we can find out about a gas leak by smell, then driving a hydrogen engine is a little dangerous. God forbid, accident.

Research, of course, is underway. The result will probably not be soon.

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1. Dear sofa expert. Offline
  
  Dear sofa expert. 27 May 2020 16: 12
  
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  So his opinion is that this is an “absolutely dead end”.
  
  It's not about a hydrogen internal combustion engine, but a hybrid: a hydrogen “power station” (Brennstoffzelle) and an electric drive.
  
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2. Peter Rusin Offline
  
  Peter Rusin (Peter Rusin) 28 May 2020 09: 58
  
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  But there will be nothing wrong with an accident. Little bada boom and all.
  
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Blast Offline

Blast (Vladimir) 27 May 2020 14: 03

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Not a word about the most important thing. Where is so much hydrogen extracted? Maybe it is somehow extracted from the same hydrocarbons ... Something about such a "production" of hydrogen is still silence, where are these stations and technologies on an industrial scale? As for natural gas, it is also odorless, odorous substance is added artificially.

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1. Dear sofa expert. Offline
  
  Dear sofa expert. 27 May 2020 16: 26
  
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  Not a word about the most important thing. Where is so much hydrogen extracted?
  
  - steam conversion of methane and natural gas;
  - gasification of coal;
  - electrolysis of water;
  - pyrolysis;
  - partial oxidation;
  - biotechnology.
  
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  1. Blast Offline
    
    Blast (Vladimir) 28 May 2020 16: 14
    
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    Do you seriously think that with all this you can get billions of m3 of hydrogen, which can make at least some sane competition with natural gas? Electrolysis is generally the coolest - it burned fuel to generate electricity, which was spent on the electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen, and then to burn it too ...
    
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    1. Dear sofa expert. Offline
      
      Dear sofa expert. 28 May 2020 17: 01
      
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      Electrolysis is generally the coolest
      
      Yes, it is he, electrolysis using catalysts. The energy intensity of hydrogen is very high, so it makes sense to turn electricity into hydrogen, converting solar energy into electrical energy, then using it for electrolysis.
      
      https://regnum.ru/news/innovatio/2275478.html
      
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aleksandrmakedo Offline

aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 27 May 2020 14: 42

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Quote: boriz
Unclear. Knowledgeable experts say that under hydrogen all pipes must be replaced. Conventional gas can’t stand it, something in chemistry, I don’t know.

For hydrogen, you need to change not pipes, but electrical equipment. Hydrogen has a lower flash point than methane. Need more sophisticated protection against sparking in electrical circuits, and explosions.
Electrolysis is probably only economically viable if the energy is free. Otherwise, the principles of energy conservation are violated. She can not appear more attached. Methane is another matter. It was created by Nature - mother. Hydrogen will need to be done by ourselves.

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Sergey Latyshev Offline

Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 27 May 2020 14: 44

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ABOUT! Another "overwhelming"!

"I do not want to comment on this in any way, but I don’t understand what you’ll drown?" - asked V. Putin. "

So it became clear to everyone, even the great Putin, how they would drown. Gas has fallen in price, everyone is building terminals for SG, pipes from the south and north.
Consumers are jumping for joy.

And only Gazprom wants to offer something again at its own / someone else's expense? Pull flow -3, 4, 5?
Voluntarily goes to the raw materials appendage and along the hydrogen ...

I remember, everyone abandoned it a long time ago - it is explosive, difficult to obtain, leaks out.
And the sheikhs' experimental super-cars in the collection were in the 80s.

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aleksandrmakedo Offline

aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 27 May 2020 14: 59

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Quote: Blast
Not a word about the most important thing. Where is so much hydrogen extracted? Maybe it is somehow extracted from the same hydrocarbons ... Something about such a "production" of hydrogen is still silence, where are these stations and technologies on an industrial scale? As for natural gas, it is also odorless, odorous substance is added artificially.

This substance is called ethyl mercaptan. An oily liquid that smells disgusting in high concentration can kill. There are tiny fractions of a percent.

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aleksandrmakedo Offline

aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 27 May 2020 15: 07

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Quote: Bakht
Recently discussed Ilona Mask. So his opinion is that this is an “absolutely dead end”. Although it may, this is due to the fact that hydrogen displaces (or can displace) battery cars.
From a chemistry course (school) Hydrogen is a colorless, odorless gas. Explosive in contact with oxygen or ordinary air. If we can find out about a gas leak by smell, then driving a hydrogen engine is a little dangerous. God forbid, accident.

Research, of course, is underway. The result will probably not be soon.

Methane, butane and others are odorless. In order to warn others about leaks, odorants are added to the gas. They make flaky gas. Any.

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1. Bakht Offline
  
  Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 27 May 2020 20: 01
  
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  Yes, they are being added. How to add to hydrogen?
  Riding a bomb, instead of a gas tank - this must be extreme. God forbid, accident and hydrogen leak. All surrounding is guaranteed a volume explosion.
  Cars powered by hydrogen are already there. The cost is three to four times higher than usual.
  
  Now three companies are mass-producing cars using hydrogen fuel cells that use fuel more efficiently: as a result of an electrochemical reaction, they generate energy that is fed to an electric motor. The first Hyundai ix35 Fuel Cell that worked in such a scheme arrived at dealerships in early 2013. A year later, Japan launched Toyota Mirai sales, and in 2015-2016, Honda Clarity entered the Japanese and American markets. A dozen more companies in recent years announced the imminent release or at least the beginning of the development of such cars. Improving technology has significantly reduced the cost of production: the price of the Hyundai ix35 Fuel Cell is about $ 53 thousand, Toyota Mirai - $ 57 thousand, Honda Clarity - $ 59. thousand
  
  https://www.rbc.ru/own_business/02/08/2017/5979d1ac9a7947802604085f
  
  This article sets out in sufficient detail. It is unlikely that I will be able to write something more detailed.
  
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aleksandrmakedo Offline

aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 27 May 2020 22: 59

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Quote: Bakht
Yes, they are being added. How to add to hydrogen?
Riding a bomb, instead of a gas tank - this must be extreme. God forbid, accident and hydrogen leak. All surrounding is guaranteed a volume explosion.
Cars powered by hydrogen are already there. The cost is three to four times higher than usual.

Three companies now mass-produce hydrogen fuel cell cars that use fuel more efficiently: as a result of an electrochemical reaction, they generate energy that is supplied to an electric motor. The first Hyundai ix35 Fuel Cell that worked in such a scheme arrived at dealerships in early 2013. A year later, Japan launched Toyota Mirai sales, and in 2015-2016, Honda Clarity entered the Japanese and American markets. A dozen more companies in recent years announced the imminent release, or at least the beginning of the development of such cars. Improving technology has significantly reduced the cost of production: the price of the Hyundai ix35 Fuel Cell is about $ 53 thousand, Toyota Mirai - $ 57 thousand, Honda Clarity - $ 59 thousand.

https://www.rbc.ru/own_business/02/08/2017/5979d1ac9a7947802604085f

This article sets out in sufficient detail. It is unlikely that I will be able to write something more detailed.

Actually, I was engaged, professionally, in the development of explosion-proof electrical equipment for mines. And I’m thinking about something. The addition of ethyl mercaptan to methane is a common occurrence, and the content of this stink there is thousandths of a percent. Who prevents adding it to hydrogen? None.

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poZZZitiv ツ Offline

poZZZitiv ツ (Alexander Andreev) 28 May 2020 09: 30

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Experts, I studied mehmat and studied, among other things, the theory of cracks.
Gentlemen, metal in contact with pure hydrogen becomes brittle and cracks as a result.
Glass or porcelain should be laid out pipes.
Otherwise, the entire pipeline system to the scrap together with compressor stations.

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aleksandrmakedo Offline

aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 28 May 2020 15: 10

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Quote: poZZZitiv ツ
Experts, I studied mehmat and studied, among other things, the theory of cracks.
Gentlemen, metal in contact with pure hydrogen becomes brittle and cracks as a result.
Glass or porcelain should be laid out pipes.
Otherwise, the entire pipeline system to the scrap together with compressor stations.

You have missed a lot of lectures, and do not know that this only happens at high temperatures, above the Curie point. From the point of view of THEORY, this is so, but practically, at normal temperature, it does not affect, and it is impossible to determine embrittlement.

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