Libyan embarrassment with the "Shell": retribution for the inability to use the experience of the USSR

The destruction of the Libyan national army under the command of Field Marshal Khalifa Haftar ZRPK “Pantsir-C1” of Russian production, and then even more humiliating capture by the pro-Turkish forces of the PNS of the same complex, only in an absolutely intact state, are events, without any exaggeration, extremely negative.

I will not discuss the “minuses” (both purely military and image) for the Haftar forces that stem from what happened — my colleagues have already done this professionally. I suggest that you better think about what unpleasant consequences these failures of the LNA can bring to our country. And also - about why they became possible at all and how realistic it is to avoid something like this in the future.

I want to note that I intend to build all the arguments and conclusions from them on the rich experience of using Soviet forces and air defense systems in numerous local conflicts that took place outside of it. Firstly, such a comparison will be the most correct, and secondly, while serving in the USSR Air Defense Forces, I had a lot of opportunities to talk with real veterans of these very “unknown” wars. Therefore, the idea of ​​the issue that I risk raising, I have, let's say, in a slightly larger volume than the one that is available in open sources and on Internet sites.

Technique in the hands of ...

The winged expression of the brilliantly played by Mark Bernes Arkady Dzubin from the immortal movie “Two Fighters” about the fact that “the main detail of any weapon is its owner’s head” was very popular and relevant in the Soviet army. As well as the other, which said that any technique in the hands of ... let's say, an incompetent person inevitably turns into a piece of metal. Why am I doing this? And besides, when delivering air defense equipment to various friendly countries, Moscow, it seems, proceeded precisely from the principles set forth above. And these deliveries were much more extensive - both in terms of quantity and nomenclature, and in geography! At the same time, we leave the Warsaw Pact Organization countries “outside the brackets” - both the construction and functioning of the local air defense systems were carried out under the strict guidance and vigilant control of our specialists completely openly. Allies are all the same.

It was more difficult with the countries of the “people's democracy” and the “socialist camp”, which were not part of the internal affairs department, but were in dire need of military assistance from the USSR because of the constantly threatening danger of becoming objects of attack from the imperialists and colonialists. At the same time, the Air Force was the main weapon that attempted to wage a "struggle against the spread of communism" and "instill democracy" around the world, but actually carried out aggression against states and governments of the armies of the West and its local allies. The strategy, which consisted of the words “bomb the stone age”, was used by them, starting with the first, perhaps, similar adventure - the war in Korea, and was steadily used further. Moreover, the pilots, that the fighting vehicles of the opponents of those who sought to support the Soviet Union, should be given their due, very good.

I will give only some documented examples of the deliveries mentioned above. The complete list is so extensive that it cannot fit into the framework of one article, and we do not need it in this case. So: SA-75M Dvina air defense systems were delivered to Algeria in the late 60s of the last century and S-125M air defense systems Pechora-M, as well as their modification M1A in the early 80s. Angola received the S-75M3 Volga air defense system and the S-125M / S-125M1A Pechora air defense system, mainly in the 80s. Vietnam delivered the SA-75M air defense systems of the Dvina and Volga modifications, as well as, subsequently, the S-125 / S-125M / S-125M1A Pechora air defense systems. In the 70-80s, mass deliveries of both various modifications of the S-75M air defense system and, later, the S-125 air defense system to Libya and Syria were carried out. The geography of deliveries of these two complexes also includes Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Mozambique, Ethiopia, Zambia, Yemen, Kampuchea, Laos, Iraq. Well, of course, China, Cuba, Mongolia, North Korea. Someone may say that in this case the comparison is not entirely correct: it is worthless to put the “Shell” next to the “Pechora”, “Volga” and “Dvina”. Here, it would be more appropriate to compare, for example, with Shilka. I beg to differ. Firstly, the S-1 Shell is still a cannon-missile system, and not a ZSU. And secondly, "Shilka" also delivered much and fought pretty well. We will also be talking about them. Let us return, however, to the main theme. Especially a lot of Soviet air defense systems were supplied to Egypt by the Soviet Union at one time. This is precisely on the basis of a very instructive experience of their combat employment in this country that we will continue our conversation.

Do you want to do something well ...

The first real baptism of fire of Soviet air defense systems was the war in Vietnam. Our S-75, and subsequently S-125 turned into a real nightmare for the American "Phantoms" and B-52. For the first month of work in this country, the Soviet air defense systems of these vultures overwhelmed more than a hundred. 60 S-75 divisions were shot down in the Vietnamese sky over the years of conflict, according to various sources, from 2 to 1.5 thousand combat vehicles of the US Air Force. No, of course, our military was not there. Well, or at least, they "did not directly participate in the hostilities." Fedor Ilinykh, Boris Mozhaev, hundreds of other Soviet rocket launchers who “landed” at least 25 American “aces” with missiles of their division, who, according to the recollections of one of the considerable military officials, “showed themselves to be masters of sniper fire in Vietnam” - these are, of course, characters completely mythical, and repair facilities for air defense systems and training classes for Vietnamese rocket men erected in Hanoi by themselves ...

However, we must pay tribute to the Vietnamese comrades - they studied honestly and perceived the "science of victory" from our instructors quite successfully. But nothing similar was achieved with the Arab military (and, apparently, it still fails to this day). The history of the Israeli-Egyptian wars is the best evidence of this. The defeat launched by Egyptian air defense by Israeli aviation in 1967, it is simply impossible to call it the greatest disgrace. In fact, it was smashed to smithereens during the first 3 hours of air raids that began on June 5, 1967 and aimed at Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Of the nearly 300 combat vehicles that the Arab Air Force fleet counted, 203 Egyptian and 70 Syrian were destroyed on the ground. Two Egyptian fighters were shot down in the air ... The situation was even worse with the remaining components of the air defense system.

At the time of the outbreak of hostilities, the ARE armed forces were at least as technically equipped as the IDF — the Soviet Union tried. In the country, 25 S-75 divisions, 90 radars of various types were deployed. Sudden airstrikes destroyed at least a quarter of the air defense systems and about half of the radar. It is only natural that during the period of hostilities from June 5 to 11, Egyptian rocket men managed to shoot down only 9 Israeli aircraft. In the calculations of anti-aircraft artillery, things were even better - they destroyed 44 enemy combat vehicles. After that, under the complete domination of the IDF, the so-called “war of attrition” began in the air. During Operation Khordos, the Israelis began to systematically wipe Egypt off the face of the earth, and Cairo, represented by President Gamal Abdel Nasser, tearfully requested new military assistance. This time in the USSR, they finally remembered the principle: “If you want to do something well, do it yourself!”

In 1970, Operation Caucasus began, during which the Operational Group of Soviet troops consisting of at least 15 thousand people was transferred to Egypt. Basically, these were just parts of the air defense forces — the 18th Special Purpose Anti-Aircraft Missile Division, fighter pilots, EW and radio reconnaissance units. So they showed them to IDF cows, where the crayfish hibernate. The first Phantoms and Skyhawks rained down from the sky, as soon as our crews S-125 appeared on the banks of the Suez Canal, and then it went. A few months of combat work by Soviet soldiers was enough for Tel Aviv to clearly understand: the time of impunity for air piracy was over, and asked for peace. Incidentally, there is evidence that the latest Soviet combat aircraft, the Su-17 and MiG-25RB, were “driven in” on this theater. Of course, Arab pilots were not allowed to approach them.

The situation was similar in approximately the same way in Syria, Angola and other countries, the defense of the sky of which was our air defense. The case was debated precisely when Soviet officers were behind the launch panels, or, at least, they clearly and completely controlled the actions of local crews. Enemies were ruthlessly shot down by missiles, shot from the same Shilok, which were more than successfully used in all the military conflicts mentioned above. Of the Israeli aircraft alone, about three dozen of them were destroyed ... It was then that the Soviet air defense systems earned themselves such strong and formidable glory that it is still alive. It should be noted that far from the newest SAM systems were exported and, even more so, sent to “hot spots”. By the time they accepted their S-125 battle in Egypt, the S-200 complexes were in service in the Soviet Union for three years, and the S-300 was, as they say, on the way (their serial production began in 1975) . And what do we see today? Two broken “Shell-S” in Syria (both with local calculations), the same complex destroyed in Libya, and now the capture of our air defense system by Turkish pro-Turkish fighters. But this technique is considered one of the most advanced developments of the Russian military-industrial complex. Today, when there is a desperate struggle without rules for global arms markets, do we need such a blatant “advertisement” ?!

For doubters, I recall the statement made just the day before by US President Donald Trump. At the next briefing, he spoke about his readiness to “significantly simplify the procedure for selling American weapons”, saving potential buyers from “lengthy bureaucratic formalities” in order to “tear customers away from the Russian arms market”. Recently, China has taken a similar position, desperately breaking into the leaders in sales of military goods and in this regard, indiscriminately criticizing Russian equipment and weapons, which compete with it. Is it worth it to “hand over” such opponents additional information “trump cards”? Today, all the world media in different ways "incline" the situation with the "Shells" in Libya, outraged in wit about this. And even if the combat vehicle came to Haftar from the allies from the UAE, even if our specialists were not there, but she was Russian!

Perhaps, in this situation, our country should nevertheless reconsider somewhat policies sales of the most promising types of weapons, especially to those who, as practice shows, cannot ensure their operation in accordance with the real potential of this equipment? Or, at least, include in the relevant contracts a non-negotiable clause on the full cycle of training of future users by our specialists - at the expense of buyers, of course. Otherwise, it will be necessary to completely copy the experience of the USSR and send our military men to the zones of military conflicts so that they personally prove that the Russian jokes in the right hands are no less jokes than with the Soviet ones.
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  1. gorenina91 Online gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 20 May 2020 09: 46
    - What kind of article? - Does the author himself know what he is writing about?
    - The losses of Israel in that operation "Caucasus" were simply insignificant and simply incomparable with the losses of Arabs, Egyptians and our military ...

    And the secrecy of the operation was not respected. The enemy's reconnaissance knew perfectly well about all the actions of our units, about their composition and missions. Moreover, the Americans and Israelis openly mocked our efforts to maintain secrecy. So, immediately after entering the Mediterranean Sea, an American carrier-based fighter appeared over the very first transport. "Agricultural machinery" was not particularly interested in him. It was a "demonstration of knowledge". Israeli radio in Russian in the news constantly reported on the advancement of Soviet transports with the latest secret missiles to Alexandria.

    And it was precisely our military experts that then simply did not have the professionalism and decisiveness in their actions ... - It was necessary to deliver pre-emptive strikes ... on identified Jewish airfields ... - What they expected was incomprehensible ...
    - And the apotheosis of the complete fiasco was the air battle of our "aces pilots" with the Israeli Air Force on July 30, 1970 ... when the Jews simply knocked down "our aces" who had arrived ... as in a training battle ...
    1. T. Hanks Offline T. Hanks
      T. Hanks (Igor) 20 May 2020 18: 01
      Wonderful. Who fought something? Preemptive strikes are cool. I will say so softly, for such initiative and not far from the tower. How many bad people signed up for this?
      1. gorenina91 Online gorenina91
        gorenina91 (Irina) 21 May 2020 15: 11
        T. Henks (Igor) Yesterday, 18:01
        Wonderful. Who fought something? Preemptive strikes are cool. I will say so softly, for such initiative and not far from the tower. How many bad people signed up for this?

        - Here he is, here at last "he" .... - This "moment of truth" ... - And what does it consist of ???
        - And it consists in the fact that, that, that the Russians ... as always they said: "You cannot be pardoned" ...
        Again, not clear ...? - I will explain further ... - What did their Jewish leadership say to the Israeli pilots when this "air duel" was being prepared ??? - And they said the following: "Wet them (Russians) with all your might and as much as possible" ...
        - And what did our management say to our pilots ??? - And it said: "Well, you don't kill them (Israelis) very much," otherwise it is somehow uncomfortable in front of the world community ... - Somehow scare them there - and that's all "... so ... as always, the Russians are given a "task" ... - they say, "you can not scare to kill" ... - And then ... - as you want - and fight ... - If anything, then you must answer will have to ... - Like this ...
        - That is why there are always more Russians and perish ... - everyone is trying to "observe the rules of decency" ...

        - So you write that, they say, how is it possible - "to inflict pre-emptive strikes" on Israeli airfields ... - how can this be done ...
        - But the Israelis easily inflicted multiple attacks on all of our identified objects ... - And none of them waved their hands ... - That's all ... - Hence the result ... - And there is no particular Israeli heroism ... - Everything is just extremely rational and prudent ...
    2. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
      akarfoxhound 20 May 2020 23: 20
      It's funny when a "professional" of military affairs in a skirt pompously writes about a "training battle". And planning preemptive strikes on airfields "from the kitchen with meatballs" is a masterpiece! Ilyich did not write about your grandmother in the government? laughing
  2. DimerVladimer Offline DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer (Dmitry Vladimirovich) 20 May 2020 10: 00
    The author reveals the topic one-sidedly. Forgetting to mention "black days":

    Operation Rimon 20 - July 30, 1970 - a rainy day in the history of Soviet military aviation: during the battle over the Suez Canal, Israeli pilots shot down five Soviet MiG-21s piloted by captains Syrkin, Kamenev, Zhuravlev, Yurchenko and Yakovlev (the 135th fighter aviation regiment was based in Egypt - 40 MiG-21MF fighter interceptors, 60 Soviet pilots, commander Colonel K. Korotyuk and the 35th separate fighter aviation squadron (30 MiG-21MF and MiG-21RF fighters, 42 Soviet pilots, Colonel Yu. Nastenko).

    Operation Medvedka 19 (1982, the operation to defeat the Syrian air defense forces and means grouped in Lebanon), 78 - 82 ATS fighters were shot down, most of the air defense systems were destroyed: the fiasco of organizing and planning air defense similar to the USSR Armed Forces.
    1. Alexey Grigoryev (Alexey Grigoriev) 20 May 2020 11: 05
      Everything is much simpler, any technique in the hands of an Arab is a piece of iron.
    2. T. Hanks Offline T. Hanks
      T. Hanks (Igor) 20 May 2020 18: 18
      About the Bears. There is a professional debriefing of Syrian air defense. They are taking air defense courses with us. I will not search, who are interested - they will find.
    3. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 20 May 2020 19: 16
      Until now, few people in our country know that one of the main reasons for the perestroika was the defeat that Israeli aviation carried out on the Syrian air defense system in the Lebanese Bekaa valley on June 9-10, 1982. The system was, of course, one hundred percent Soviet, and the latest at that time. It was impossible to attribute the catastrophe to the usual incapacity of the Arabs: even the Israelis admitted that the Syrians fought well this time, in addition, Soviet instructors were sitting next to the Syrians in the booths of the destroyed air defense systems. It’s just that the enemy fought in a new way, and we fought in the old way.

      Alexander Khramchikhin, Deputy Director of the Institute for Political and Military Analysis.
      Article "Military Construction in Russia", Znamya magazine 2005, ¹12
    4. alexey alexeyev Offline alexey alexeyev
      alexey alexeyev (Alexey Alekseev) 23 May 2020 11: 40
      One of the leading designers of air defense systems was a traitor. He handed over tons of secret information to Amers. While he was calculated, he managed to become the director of the institute. That’s the whole success of the bear ... The biggest betrayal. After that I had to change the air defense system. ALL..
  3. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 May 2020 12: 09
    Wow, what style, what presentation)) As if again I read the Soviet military-analytical books from the village library)
    1. Dear sofa expert. 20 May 2020 13: 19
      ... Wow, what a style, what a statement)) As if I read the Soviet military-analytical books from the village library again) ..

      Your experience of visiting “rural libraries” is visible to the naked eye.)
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 20 May 2020 16: 53
        What to do - in my childhood, which came in the 90s, there was no Internet, but there was a large rural and slightly smaller school library. There I learned to search for information and, most importantly, to separate facts and useful ideas from a bunch of unnecessary ideological husks.

        This skill was very useful to me in the future. Therefore, it is extremely sad that you have not learned this.
        1. Dear sofa expert. 20 May 2020 17: 41
          ... Therefore, it is extremely sad that you have not learned this.

          ... what do I have to do with it? This is why you attack people for some reason. What did the author of the bad do to you so that you insult him? Can you write more talentedly? Yes, the flag in your hands. Write. Here everyone can exhibit their work. At the same time, not in (your) words, but in practice we will see what you learned in your “rural school”. And somehow you are not convincingly everything.
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 20 May 2020 18: 07
            What did the author of the bad do to you so that you insult him?

            And what is the insult? The author uses the rhetoric that was characteristic of Soviet military-political literature. I just noted this fact.

            By the way, I have never written anywhere that the author is not talented. On the contrary, the language is very, very good. I just noted that the rhetoric resembles that adopted in the USSR.

            Yes, the flag in your hands. Write. Here everyone can exhibit their work.

            And here you are right. Moreover, in some topics I have something to share.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Dear sofa expert. 20 May 2020 19: 04
              ... And here you are right. Moreover, in some topics I have something to share ..

              - That's fine! Write. We are pleased to read and discuss a new genius, well, let's see in general what your “masterpieces” will pull on.
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    2. Bitter Offline Bitter
      Bitter 21 May 2020 00: 02
      ... again I read the Soviet military analytical books from the village library ...

      Seriously? Have you read Soviet-style military analytical books in a rural library? Probably, a bear with a cap with earflaps and a balalaika and a nesting doll at the opposite table was sitting and sipping vodka, and a nuclear reactor soared outside the window, etc. laughing good
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 21 May 2020 00: 53
        Seriously? Have you read Soviet military analytical books in a rural library?

        Is this something amazing for you? It’s sad.
        1. Bitter Offline Bitter
          Bitter 21 May 2020 01: 15
          Where else can one find real and serious military-political analytics and other specific "fiction", only there at the origins of life, in the countryside. laughing
          Well, or else, maybe in the school library.
          Therefore, in Russia, the people from the school desk are savvy so that they can immediately steer not only a tank or Iskander, but anything. At least the whole country. So Yeltsin, it seems, also reigned the government on books from the same rural library into life.
  4. Yuri Nemov Offline Yuri Nemov
    Yuri Nemov (Yuri Nemov) 21 May 2020 08: 18
    The author contradicts himself. Declares that America and China simplify the procedure for the sale of weapons, and Russia proposes complicating all sorts of training conditions for personnel, etc. Who are we working for, author? At the American military-industrial complex?
  5. Serge Tixiy Offline Serge Tixiy
    Serge Tixiy (Serge Tixiy) 24 May 2020 11: 34
    The author does not own the topic, neither historical nor modern ..... So, intellectual nonsense, philippics addressed to the authorities "until" .....
  6. shinobi Offline shinobi
    shinobi (Yuri) 26 May 2020 12: 47
    Well, it started! It makes sense to argue if the 6-day war showed which of the Arabs fought? In Syria, our air supremacy is not ensured, Assad’s supplies and instructors would have been forgotten, and the country would have been commanded by the Americans. It’s more difficult to give them anything in their hands.
  7. assault 2019 Offline assault 2019
    assault 2019 (assault 2019) 30 May 2020 18: 22
    The wisest decision would be to agree with Erdogan on a scheme, Turkey ceases support for militants in Syria in exchange for Russia's support in Libya ...