“Kremlin appetites are growing”: in Kiev they are waiting for a power scenario in the Donbass


Ukraine is moving towards a dead end, both in external and internal policy. Kiev in this hopeless future is attracted by the United States, which is going through hard times, and is also entering the hottest phase of the presidential election campaign.


All this will make Washington distract from its Eastern European ally, which will enable the Kremlin, led by Vladimir Putin, to attack Ukraine militarily and politically. This conclusion was made by the ex-Minister of Foreign Affairs “Square” Pavel Klimkin, setting forth his thoughts in an interview with the local publication “Observer”.

Raise bids now


A former Ukrainian Foreign Ministry official is confident that Russia will use the “coronacrisis” to raise rates in the Minsk process through military expansion in eastern Ukraine. This makes sense if Moscow wants to close the issue completely this year. Thus, a peaceful outcome is unlikely, the politician believes, since there are too many problems in the Russian Federation.

Most likely, this will not only be a military campaign, but also political, public, and informational. The main goal of which will be the destabilization of many areas of life

- notes Mr. Klimkin.

According to the diplomat, taking into account all the above factors and dangers, it becomes clear that Putin uses troubled times to illegally but effectively legitimize the “regime” by resolving the painful issue of sanctions. And he will try to do this due to the image and territory of Ukraine.

Donbass - the coveted jackpot


Klimkin is sure that the current leadership of Russia is not interested in an early solution to the “Donbass problem”, since this unrecognized territory for the Kremlin is a source of possible preferences and an instrument of influence on Kiev and Brussels, the collective West. Already, Moscow is splitting the EU, trying to interact directly with individual countries of Western and Eastern Europe, bypassing collegial bodies. And the theme of the “rebellious region” is very suitable for this.

Klimkin is sure that in the background economic problems Putin has received huge problems with the trust of his own population, with legitimacy, in other words. He urgently needs a victorious military campaign, which, on the one hand, may go unpunished by the West, occupied by the "crown," and, on the other, will raise the rating among Russians.

I do not want to seem cynical, but Belarus itself will not be considered the people of Russia as a triumphal “booty”; they want a more substantial jackpot. And it is, of course, Ukraine

- says Klimkin.

So now the politician does not recommend relaxing. With the development of the economic crisis and the collapse of oil, the Kremlin’s “appetite” is only growing and it is asserting itself within the country at the expense of its neighbors.

So this year, as well as next, will become difficult for Ukraine, but decisive

- summed up Pavel Klimkin.
  • Used photos: http://kremlin.ru/
64 comments
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  1. Alexander Zima Offline Alexander Zima
    Alexander Zima (Alexander Zima) April 24 2020 08: 52
    +3
    Klimkin did not read the story of Rusi ......... but in vain. He must know .. that everyone who went with democracy to the East .. - and these are the Teutonic knights .. Poles .. French .. Aryans .. now the Ukrainians, who decided that you can try with the support of the West, were muddied in 14- m .... All of these Democrats then darted to the West ... so wonder if, instead of studying the primer at school .. this primer was lit up behind the school .. around the corner. ..
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 24 2020 09: 56
      -7
      You would also refresh the history of Russia.
      1. rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
        rotkiv04 (Victor) April 25 2020 07: 39
        +3
        And what do you have to do with Russia? Learn better the history of the West Bank.
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 25 2020 13: 14
          -2
          Do you want to forbid me to study the history of my home country? Well, you know where to go with such directions. And at the same time google Kievan Rus and think about why it is so called and what modern Ukrainians have to do with it.
      2. isofat Offline isofat
        isofat (isofat) 12 May 2020 14: 06
        +2
        Quote: Oleg Rambover
        You would also refresh the history of Russia.

        Oleg Rambover, and your knowledge of history is now enough? Do you agree that the official date for the formation of statehood in the territory of modern Russia is considered to be 882?
        1. isofat Offline isofat
          isofat (isofat) 12 May 2020 14: 30
          +1
          Sorry, typo. Of course, 862 year.
        2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 15 May 2020 12: 48
          -1
          Quote: isofat
          Do you agree that the official date for the formation of statehood in the territory of modern Russia is considered to be 882?

          Oh, this is progress, it was not Russia that formed under the legendary Rurik, but some kind of statehood.
          Have you decided what the Lithuanian Grand Dukes are doing at the 1000th Anniversary of Russia monument?
          1. isofat Offline isofat
            isofat (isofat) 15 May 2020 13: 23
            0
            Quote: Oleg Rambover
            Oh, this is progress, it was not Russia that formed under the legendary Rurik, but some kind of statehood.

            Oleg Rambover, after all, is it not difficult for you to find and quote where I say this?

            PS So you agree that the official date for the formation of statehood in the territory of modern Russia is considered to be 862? Yes or No?
          2. isofat Offline isofat
            isofat (isofat) 15 May 2020 13: 44
            0
            Oleg Rambover. This memory should refresh you.

    2. Digital error Offline Digital error
      Digital error (Eugene) April 24 2020 10: 31
      0
      Quote: Alexander Zima
      Klimkin did not read the story of Rusi

      I read at school and in high school. Born in Kursk, in 1991 graduated from the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. Here is another - probably looking for new employers.
    3. Bitter Offline Bitter
      Bitter (Gleb) April 24 2020 23: 54
      +1
      ..this primer lit up behind the school .. around the corner. ..

      And then the "primer" lit the MSG, and Boris Nikolayevich with the company, with a spark, picked up this venture and nothing stood in the way of different kinds of democracies. Particularly democratic individuals flew to Moscow as to work, just to take out a little "demoralized" money for a couple of useless, and often wrecking advice. The country shrank by almost half, and the people were told that he was wrong and owed everyone. hi
  2. zz811 Offline zz811
    zz811 (Vlad Pervovich) April 24 2020 09: 24
    +1
    The harsh years go by
    in the struggle for the freedom of the country.
    Others come for them -
    they will be difficult too ...
  3. GRF Offline GRF
    GRF April 24 2020 09: 46
    +1
    Ukrainians, do you know that America helps Russia in the fight against coronovirus? Not significant? Perhaps how old are you?
    But is it now cheaper to build a new factory in Russia from scratch than to restore your factory? And the fact that there is enough empty space for their construction? And the fact that our industry products are taken, but not yours? And even Belarusian! But the fact that we have something to do without you, as before, is not?
    Anyway, keep listening to the racist Klimkin, who claims that the Ukrainian jackpot is better than the Belarusian one, amuse your vanity ...

    If you do not see a sucker in the emerging scenario, then this sucker is you.

    90s, they and you 90s ...
    1. Bitter Offline Bitter
      Bitter (Gleb) April 25 2020 00: 01
      +2
      Ukrainians, and you in the know

      The problem, probably, is that the Russians are on the other side, and they also stubbornly do not like to admit their mistakes.
      And to disperse, pretending that nothing had happened, it was too late, too played. This is how the popular "fathers" of national democracies breed entire nations in different corners.
      1. GRF Offline GRF
        GRF April 25 2020 04: 03
        +1
        Hunger is not an aunt; a pie will not bring.
        Sooner or later, the understanding that nobody will feed forever for nothing, that you need a fishing rod, not a fish, will come. Now they are hoping for an overseas product, for overseas investments, that they will teach to make a modern fishing rod, but hopes do not come true. And therefore, life will teach / force to whom in what corner to unite ...
        1. Bitter Offline Bitter
          Bitter (Gleb) April 26 2020 18: 29
          -1
          .... forever no one will feed ...

          This is clear. Tell this, for example, to any citizen of the former USSR who worked all his life in the city of Kiev at some machine-building plant. Explain to him popularly that he, with all his work, only did that he was sitting on the hump of unhappy Russian peasants.
          Therefore, probably, no one else wants to be reproached every time with a piece of bread.
          1. GRF Offline GRF
            GRF April 26 2020 20: 48
            +1
            This song, that each republic fed others more than her, is sung by everyone. Propaganda in vain does not eat money. The USSR itself produced, consumed itself. The West, having received new markets, did not open its own. Therefore, republics, without the market of other republics, will simply be without work. So let them think who fed whom, and with whom to cooperate, so that bread reappears, for future reproaches ...
            1. Bitter Offline Bitter
              Bitter (Gleb) April 27 2020 08: 57
              +1
              This song that each republic fed others ...

              Not at all about that. The song is about how many hundreds and thousands of people of different nationalities in the republics went to work every day and produced not only tanks and planes, televisions and radios, but also many other necessary things for the whole Union. Then Boris Nikolaevich came and said "We don't need anything, we will buy everything" there "for dollars", then the song ends. Therefore, "this song" from your side sounds very fake.
              Now Mr. Putin suddenly suddenly remembered the necessary legacy in the form of infrastructure, as he wants to get more access again not only to the nearest markets, but also to have more weight in the political arena. Late enlightenment has come, markets may open up, but it will be difficult to gain influence, Belarus is the closest example to this.
  4. Igor Pavlovich Offline Igor Pavlovich
    Igor Pavlovich (Igor Pavlovich) April 24 2020 09: 49
    -3
    ... which will enable the Kremlin, led by Vladimir Putin, to attack Ukraine militarily and politically.

    - judging by the development of destructive circumstances in the country's economy, there will soon be no one to attack ...
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 24 2020 10: 07
    -5
    which will enable the Kremlin, led by Vladimir Putin, to attack Ukraine militarily and politically

    With an oil price of less than 60, the Kremlin is not up to foreign policy achievements.
    1. Bitter Offline Bitter
      Bitter (Gleb) April 26 2020 18: 37
      -2
      With an oil price of less than 60, the Kremlin is not up to foreign policy achievements.

      The Kremlin is, as always, a damn. The state exists separately from the people; for the people out there, churches are riveting like pies. There will always be money for geopolitical dances, there would be a desire and a goal.
      1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 27 2020 13: 52
        -3
        Quote: Bitter
        The state exists separately from the people; for the people out there, churches are riveting like pies. There will always be money for geopolitical dances, there would be a desire and a goal.

        I do not agree, the Russian Federation is electoral autocracy, the support of citizens is important for it. And if the government gets involved in costly foreign policy events, while citizens get poorer, they will lose such support.
        1. Bitter Offline Bitter
          Bitter (Gleb) April 28 2020 00: 13
          -2
          This means that it is necessary to "appoint" some bogeyman and try to rally the electorate to fight against him and the forced "victims" sanctions are nothing to them.

          electoral autocracy

          - is it like, "will you vote until you vote the right way"?
          1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 28 2020 15: 16
            -4
            Quote: Bitter
            This means that it is necessary to "appoint" some bogeyman and try to rally the electorate to fight against him and the forced "victims" sanctions are nothing to them.

            For Crimea, citizens could have suffered for some time, because its annexation, in the opinion of the majority, is fair, but Donbass, and even more so, Syria does not cause such enthusiasm. And it is doubtful that new achievements, as they say, will "come in."

            Quote: Bitter
            it's like, "you will vote until you vote the right way"

            No, this is when the leader is not sure of the legitimacy of his power and therefore regularly holds a plebiscite under the guise of elections at which he must get 70 percent. These elections, by and large with a single candidate, are the source of the leader’s legitimacy. Unfinished democracy.
  7. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 24 2020 11: 18
    0
    And, again, someone is saying something over the hill ...
    And the meaning is always the same - the enemies are about to strike / provoke / fire / expand, etc.
  8. King3214 Offline King3214
    King3214 (Sergius) April 24 2020 12: 20
    +1
    Since 1991, Kiev has been "waiting for a power scenario." The very first "waiters" have already died of old age.
    But objective reality and its understanding have never been a strong feature of the "Ukrainian nation".
  9. Alexander Semenov (Alexander Semenov) April 24 2020 14: 19
    -3
    There will be nothing, the time is not right for such adventures ...
  10. nnz226 Offline nnz226
    nnz226 (Nikolai) April 24 2020 15: 25
    +3
    So that Russia attacked the dill in order to join this territory to itself ??? Dill, you don’t have enough money to bribe Putin and Shoigu so that they give such an order !!! It has long been said:

    In the 21st century, the occupation of Russia must be earned!
  11. Dzafdet Offline Dzafdet
    Dzafdet (Sergei) April 24 2020 17: 13
    +1
    Klimkin, put the pot on Maidan. Jumping and screaming: Heroam fat!
  12. bear040 Offline bear040
    bear040 April 24 2020 22: 29
    +2
    Judging by how poor Ukraine spends the last pennies from its budget on the purchase of weapons and armament of Bandera gangs, and the open statements by clown Kolomoisky that Kiev will leave the Minsk format, it’s the Bandera gang that plans to attack Donbass ... It will end predictably, Saakashvili and Zelensky will devour their socks, and they will blame everything, as always, for the Russian Federation, because the USA and their sixes still blame the Russian Federation for the war, that it’s complete rubbish !!!
  13. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) April 25 2020 00: 35
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    You would also refresh the history of Russia.

    Read the lecture course. Surely you will find a description there, who took Kiev from whom, planted his prince, and ruled Russia. Then Ukraine did not smell (it can smell only what is, or was), no one guessed to put the letters in such a way as to write - Ukraine. Outskirts - as the Poles called their backyards. And harnessed you to arbs instead of bulls. That is the story.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 28 2020 16: 00
      -3
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Surely you will find a description there, who took Kiev from whom, planted his prince, and ruled Russia.

      Are you talking about Varangians or about Tatar-Mongols?

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Then Ukraine did not smell (it can only smell what is, or was) no one guessed to put the letters together in such a way as to write - Ukraine. Outskirts - as the Poles called their backyards. And harnessed you to arbs instead of bulls. That is the story.

      What a stream of consciousness. To begin with, I was born and have lived all my life in Russia. Russia then didn’t particularly smell. Kievan Rus was a state (if it can be called a state), in which a single ancient Russian nationality was formed. Then this nationality was divided into Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians, but in the time of Russia we were united.
      And you, as I understand it, are glad that "you" were harnessed to carts by your own master?
  14. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) April 25 2020 00: 40
    +2
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    which will enable the Kremlin, led by Vladimir Putin, to attack Ukraine militarily and politically

    With an oil price of less than 60, the Kremlin is not up to foreign policy achievements.

    With a debt with the size of the country's budget, which you give back in 20 ... 21 years, you are not that oil (forget a word), but hold on to a word - do not die. And start trading land. For promises of a new tranche of the IMF, by the way, which will go to pay interest on old debts. Give on hold. But sell the land. Or go deal with your leaders, who once again deceived you.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 28 2020 16: 06
      -3
      What country are you talking about? I am a citizen of the Russian Federation. Who should I deal with? What are you so worried about Ukraine? My advice to you, watch less TV.
  15. gore Offline gore
    gore (Alexander) April 25 2020 05: 58
    0
    Klim Chugunkin used to bark from his booth by rank. Now kicked out, he settled in the garbage, but can not stop. He no longer has the right to bark (according to the laws of the garbage dump - not by rank), therefore he is already squealing that at least somehow living mutts pay attention to him ...
  16. rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 (Victor) April 25 2020 07: 34
    +2
    Klim Chugunkin is foolish by nature, he and his pan-leg-killers can not understand or accept that Russia does not want to restore and feed this territory, so they themselves somehow.
  17. Evgeny Rubtsov Offline Evgeny Rubtsov
    Evgeny Rubtsov (Evgeny Rubtsov) April 25 2020 23: 03
    +1
    But who needs you, Mr. Klimkin.
  18. 69 Offline 69
    69 April 28 2020 16: 24
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    What country are you talking about? I am a citizen of the Russian Federation. Who should I deal with?

    Don’t be nervous, today you are a citizen, no tomorrow, what problems?
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 30 2020 15: 46
      -3
      Quote: 69P
      Don’t be nervous, today you are a citizen, no tomorrow, what problems?

      I am completely calm. Well, it’s definitely not up to you to decide which country I should be a citizen of.
  19. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) April 28 2020 16: 43
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    What country are you talking about? I am a citizen of the Russian Federation. Who should I deal with? What are you so worried about Ukraine? My advice to you, watch less TV.

    You see, when THEY carry such things - this is normal and already familiar. But I would hang mine for it at once on two birches.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 30 2020 16: 15
      -3
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      But I would hang mine for it at once on two birches.

      Of course, an understandable desire, knowledge is zero, argumentation is zero, the ability to lead a discussion and defend one's opinion is also zero, it remains only to wetly dream about the gallows. This is all from laziness of reason, infantilism.
      Personally, I think it’s not normal to dream of gallows, there is something unhealthy in this.
  20. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) April 28 2020 16: 58
    +2
    Quote: Bitter
    .... forever no one will feed ...

    This is clear. Tell this, for example, to any citizen of the former USSR who worked all his life in the city of Kiev at some machine-building plant. Explain to him popularly that he, with all his work, only did that he was sitting on the hump of unhappy Russian peasants.
    Therefore, probably, no one else wants to be reproached every time with a piece of bread.

    This can be told not only in Kiev.

  21. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) April 30 2020 18: 15
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    But I would hang mine for it at once on two birches.

    Of course, an understandable desire, knowledge is zero, argumentation is zero, the ability to lead a discussion and defend one's opinion is also zero, it remains only to wetly dream about the gallows. This is all from laziness of reason, infantilism.
    Personally, I think it’s not normal to dream of gallows, there is something unhealthy in this.

    You look at your literacy. And you still dare to read notations?
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 1 May 2020 14: 56
      -3
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      And you still dare to read notations?

      I dare, but what, some problems? You dare to bring nonsense about how Ukrainians were harnessed to arbes or read notations, how to love my Motherland and nothing, thunder didn’t hit you.
  22. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 1 May 2020 17: 25
    +3
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    And you still dare to read notations?

    I dare, but what, some problems? You dare to bring nonsense about how Ukrainians were harnessed to arbes or read notations, how to love my Motherland and nothing, thunder didn’t hit you.

    Your current friends, Turks, have been doing this for hundreds of years. Are Crimean Tatars - Tatars? Not at all. This is a branch of the Turkish nation.
    And how much did they pick up? Do you know a concept like Unia? Your friends today, Poles, Lithuania have been harnessed for hundreds of years. With what fig, one asks, Khmelnitsky broke five times to the Russian Tsar to accept Russian citizenship? Do you know Pereyaslavskaya Rada? Or, having broken this contract, do you think that you have gone far? Not at all. An anchor is on your neck, and strings on your feet. Sit still and do not tweet.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 3 May 2020 16: 51
      -3
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Your current friends, Turks, have been doing this for hundreds of years.

      And I thought they were your friends, or what’s being broadcast on TV now, I don’t follow. Again a knife in the back?

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Are Crimean Tatars - Tatars? Not at all. This is a branch of the Turkish nation.

      And ... what did you want to say? If again your fantasies about the cart, then I have to disappoint you, the Crimean Tatars did not care who, in your words, to harness this cart. And so they were friends with the Moscow principality against the Lithuanian one and "harnessed" the subjects of Lithuania, then they were friends with the Lithuanian principality against Moscow and "harnessed" the subjects of the Moscow prince. And it is a controversial question, who was "harnessed" more. Take an interest in the meaning of the word yasyr.

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Your friends today, Poles, Lithuania have been harnessed for hundreds of years.

      You know more about my friends than I do. You probably do not know, but the borders of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania passed through the present Moscow region. And that, because of this, you somehow treat the residents of Smolensk, Kursk or Belgorod differently? How many years did the Tatar-Mongols "harness" in Russia? Much less than the Lithuanians and the Poles?

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      And how much did they pick up? Do you know a concept like Unia? Your friends today, Poles, Lithuania have been harnessed for hundreds of years. With what fig, one asks, Khmelnytsky broke five times to the Russian Tsar to accept Russian citizenship? Do you know Pereyaslavskaya Rada? Or having broken this contract, do you think that you have gone far? Not at all. An anchor on your neck, and strings on your feet. Sit still and do not tweet.

      Again some kind of stream of consciousness. You yourself understand what you want to say?

      Again, an understandable desire to tailor history to your Black-Hundred worldview, and so you stick out some historical events and completely ignore others. But no matter how much you repeat, like a parrot, about an arba, this will not cancel the fact that the Ukrainians and I are related peoples (and a certain Vladimir Vladimirovich generally considers us to be one people) with a common history and common roots, and for most Ukrainians, a common tongue. And it can’t change your fantasies about the arba from the word at all.
  23. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 3 May 2020 18: 29
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    Your current friends, Turks, have been doing this for hundreds of years.

    And I thought they were your friends, or what’s being broadcast on TV now, I don’t follow. Again a knife in the back?

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    Are Crimean Tatars - Tatars? Not at all. This is a branch of the Turkish nation.

    And ... what did you want to say? If again your fantasies about the cart, then I have to disappoint you, the Crimean Tatars did not care who, in your words, to harness this cart. And so they were friends with the Moscow principality against the Lithuanian one and "harnessed" the subjects of Lithuania, then they were friends with the Lithuanian principality against Moscow and "harnessed" the subjects of the Moscow prince. And it is a controversial question, who was "harnessed" more. Take an interest in the meaning of the word yasyr.

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    Your friends today, Poles, Lithuania have been harnessed for hundreds of years.

    You know more about my friends than I do. You probably do not know, but the borders of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania passed through the present Moscow region. And that, because of this, you somehow treat the residents of Smolensk, Kursk or Belgorod differently? How many years did the Tatar-Mongols "harness" in Russia? Much less than the Lithuanians and the Poles?

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    And how much did they pick up? Do you know a concept like Unia? Your friends today, Poles, Lithuania have been harnessed for hundreds of years. With what fig, one asks, Khmelnytsky broke five times to the Russian Tsar to accept Russian citizenship? Do you know Pereyaslavskaya Rada? Or having broken this contract, do you think that you have gone far? Not at all. An anchor on your neck, and strings on your feet. Sit still and do not tweet.

    Again some kind of stream of consciousness. You yourself understand what you want to say?

    Again, an understandable desire to tailor history to your Black-Hundred worldview, and so you stick out some historical events and completely ignore others. But no matter how much you repeat, like a parrot, about an arba, this will not cancel the fact that the Ukrainians and I are related peoples (and a certain Vladimir Vladimirovich generally considers us to be one people) with a common history and common roots, and for most Ukrainians, a common tongue. And it can’t change your fantasies about the arba from the word at all.

    THAT'S IT. On the borders. But the outskirts were completely under the ass of the Psheks, then Lithuania, the Krymchaks. Hence the inherent syphilitic hatred of everyone. And cruelty unprecedented anywhere.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 4 May 2020 15: 10
      -3
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      THAT'S IT. On the borders. But the outskirts were completely under the ass of the Psheks, then Lithuania, the Krymchaks.

      I was not near the Crimea, do not invent. The history of Smolensk is not much different from the history of left-bank Ukraine. Smolensk was a couple of centuries in the Lithuanian principality, then under the rule of the Psheks. But for some reason, in your opinion, for Ukraine this is horror-horror, but for Smolensk this is normal. And again, why is it horrifying and horrifying for you to find future Ukrainian (and Belarusian?) Lands under the rule of the Lithuanian principality, and not find such emotions in the future Russian lands under the horde?

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Hence the inherent syphilitic hatred of everyone. And cruelty never seen before.

      Where did you get such hatred towards others? And judging by the dreams of the gallows, and cruelty? Maybe you should be checked? That would explain a lot.
  24. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 4 May 2020 16: 45
    +2
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    THAT'S IT. On the borders. But the outskirts were completely under the ass of the Psheks, then Lithuania, the Krymchaks.

    I was not near the Crimea, do not invent. The history of Smolensk is not much different from the history of left-bank Ukraine. Smolensk was a couple of centuries in the Lithuanian principality, then under the rule of the Psheks. But for some reason, in your opinion, for Ukraine this is horror-horror, but for Smolensk this is normal. And again, why is it horrifying and horrifying for you to find future Ukrainian (and Belarusian?) Lands under the rule of the Lithuanian principality, and not find such emotions in the future Russian lands under the horde?

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    Hence the inherent syphilitic hatred of everyone. And cruelty never seen before.

    Where did you get such hatred towards others? And judging by the dreams of the gallows, and cruelty? Maybe you should be checked? That would explain a lot.

    My ancestors are the Ural Cossacks. And from them hatred of beings who want the homeland. Betraying her is not even in deeds, but in words. If I had a similar creature, I would have made him a patriot. Patiently and attentively.
    Unlike Smolensk, Lviv was poisoned by the hatred of Westerners until the hundredth generation. And the poison of the ointment remained there forever. The stupid and lazy Ukraine, chewing fat and thinking that the hut is on the edge, was under the ass of those Bandera, brought up for centuries in the cattle yards of western lords.
    Russian Smolensk, repeatedly proved to the aliens that he is a warrior. Not one generation of uninvited remained in the fields of the Smolensk region. This is the difference.
    It’s a pity you don’t understand, philosopher.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 5 May 2020 16: 07
      -3
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      My ancestors are the Ural Cossacks. And from them hatred of beings who want the homeland. Betraying her is not even in deeds, but in words.

      My two grandfathers fought with the Nazis, they passed away early, but I still know that Nazism is bad. And the Nazi idea that there are good and bad peoples is also bad, especially since it is not based on anything. And it doesn’t matter how this idea is substantiated, the size of the skull, or who sat under whose ass 5 centuries ago. This is a Nazi idea anyway. And it is a pity that your ancestors could not convey it to you.
      And it offends me that in my homeland all sorts of creatures raised their heads and began to preach such Nazi ideas. What did the grandfathers fight?

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Russian Smolensk, repeatedly proved to the aliens that he is a warrior. Not one generation of uninvited remained in the fields of the Smolensk region.

      Courage Smolensk showed even in the Battle of Grunwald with the Lithuanians and Poles, against the Teutonic Order. They were also seen in the campaign to Tver as part of the Lithuanian army. But still you are wrong, of course, only the third time after 15 years of resistance the Smolensk resigned to the aliens, but still obeyed the founder of the Russian state, Ivan 3.
      PS Have you ever been interested in the history of the Cossacks? For a descendant of the Cossacks, it’s rather strange to talk about o-harnessed Crimean Tatars to anyone else.
  25. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 5 May 2020 20: 48
    +2
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    My ancestors are the Ural Cossacks. And from them hatred of beings who want the homeland. Betraying her is not even in deeds, but in words.

    My two grandfathers fought with the Nazis, they passed away early, but I still know that Nazism is bad. And the Nazi idea that there are good and bad peoples is also bad, especially since it is not based on anything. And it doesn’t matter how this idea is substantiated, the size of the skull, or who sat under whose ass 5 centuries ago. This is a Nazi idea anyway. And it is a pity that your ancestors could not convey it to you.
    And it offends me that in my homeland all sorts of creatures raised their heads and began to preach such Nazi ideas. What did the grandfathers fight?

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    Russian Smolensk, repeatedly proved to the aliens that he is a warrior. Not one generation of uninvited remained in the fields of the Smolensk region.

    Courage Smolensk showed even in the Battle of Grunwald with the Lithuanians and Poles, against the Teutonic Order. They were also seen in the campaign to Tver as part of the Lithuanian army. But still you are wrong, of course, only the third time after 15 years of resistance, the Smolensk residents obeyed the newcomers, but nevertheless obeyed the founder of the Russian state, Ivan 3.
    PS Have you ever been interested in the history of the Cossacks? For a descendant of the Cossacks it is rather strange to talk about - they harnessed anyone to the Crimean Tatars to the arba.

    If at least one of your grandfathers stood out of the grave, he would have ripped your head off like a puppy who is craping a host on a plate. Well, both of them would be handy. Patriotism in holy feelings for the motherland. Nazism-in belittling everyone else.
    You are so stupid that you do not distinguish Nazism from patriotism. I’m finishing the conversation with you, for the black cloth has not been whitewashed.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 5 May 2020 23: 46
      -4
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      If at least one of your grandfathers stood out of the grave, he would have ripped your head off like a puppy who is craping a host on a plate. Well, both of them would be handy.

      Here it is not necessary for my grandfathers, worry that yours in the next world will not ask you. And it is the Black Hundred dreams of the owner that are so touching.

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Patriotism in holy feelings for the motherland. Nazism-in belittling everyone else.

      Great words ....

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      But the outskirts were completely under the ass of the Psheks, then Lithuania, the Krymchaks. Hence the inherent syphilitic hatred of everyone. And cruelty unprecedented anywhere.

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      The stupid and lazy Ukraine, chewing fat and thinking that the hut is on the edge, was under the ass of those Bandera, brought up for centuries in the cattle yards of western lords.

      I don’t understand, with these words, you have holy feelings for the Motherland, or are you humiliating your neighbor? A smart guy like you will probably explain that this is a beautiful syllable "ass" "syphilitic" "Stupid and lazy Ukraine" and so on is a manifestation of "holy feelings for the Motherland", but in my inexperienced opinion it looks more like "belittling everyone else."

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      I’m finishing the conversation with you, for the black cloth has not been whitewashed.

      Very sorry. And then I was about to refresh the memory of the history of the Cossacks, there is a lot to find in it that will pour balm on the soul of the Russian Black Hundreds of Cossacks.

      PS Why, among the Black Hundreds and cheers of patriots, are some toothless hamsters capable of only stupid, uninteresting rudeness? Is there a selection among them?
  26. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 6 May 2020 01: 57
    +2
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    If at least one of your grandfathers stood out of the grave, he would have ripped your head off like a puppy who is craping a host on a plate. Well, both of them would be handy.

    Here it is not necessary for my grandfathers, worry that yours in the next world will not ask you. And it is the Black Hundred dreams of the owner that are so touching.

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    Patriotism in holy feelings for the motherland. Nazism-in belittling everyone else.

    Great words ....

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    But the outskirts were completely under the ass of the Psheks, then Lithuania, the Krymchaks. Hence the inherent syphilitic hatred of everyone. And cruelty unprecedented anywhere.

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    The stupid and lazy Ukraine, chewing fat and thinking that the hut is on the edge, was under the ass of those Bandera, brought up for centuries in the cattle yards of western lords.

    I don’t understand, with these words you are making sacred feelings for the Motherland or is it the humiliation of your neighbors? A smart guy like you will probably explain that this is a beautiful syllable with "ass", "syphilitic", "Stupid and lazy Ukraine", etc. there is a manifestation of "holy feelings for the Motherland", but in my inexperienced opinion it looks more like "belittling everyone else."

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    I’m finishing the conversation with you, for the black cloth has not been whitewashed.

    Very sorry. And then I was about to refresh the memory of the history of the Cossacks, there is a lot to find in it that will pour balm on the soul of the Russian Black Hundreds of Cossacks.

    PS Well, why among the Black Hundreds and cheers of patriots are some toothless hamsters capable of only stupid, uninteresting rudeness? Is there a selection among them?

    This fact expresses the whole essence of Russian liberalism of the kind I am talking about. First, what is liberalism, if we speak at all, if not an attack (reasonable or erroneous, that's another question) on the existing order of things? It is so? Well, my fact is that Russian liberalism is not an attack on the existing order of things, but an attack on the very essence of our things, on the very things, and not just one order, not the Russian order, but Russia itself. My liberal has gone so far as to deny Russia itself, that is, he hates and beats his mother. Every unfortunate and unfortunate Russian fact excites laughter and almost delight in him. He hates folk customs, Russian history, everything. If there is an excuse for him, it is that he does not understand what he is doing, and he takes his hatred of Russia for the most fruitful liberalism (oh, you often meet a liberal in our country who is applauded by the rest, and who, perhaps, in essence is the most ridiculous, most stupid and dangerous conservative, and he himself does not know it!). This hatred for Russia, not so long ago, some of our liberals took almost for true love for the fatherland and boasted that they saw better than others, what it should consist of; but now they have become more frank and even the words "love of the fatherland" have begun to be ashamed, even the concept has been banished and eliminated as harmful and insignificant.

    F.M. Dostoevsky.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 7 May 2020 16: 34
      -3
      This is much better, otherwise talk about "ass" "syphilitic", etc. are not worthy of the high title of a reasonable man As I understand it, we have dealt with Nazism and you will no longer belittle other nations?

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      F.M. Dostoevsky.

      Dostoevsky, of course, is an authoritative author, but it’s an old demagogic trick to come up with a spherical liberal in a vacuum, come up with some bad properties, and then violently denounce them.
      As they say, history will judge us. You will not argue that history has judged Dostoevsky's "native" and "Westernizers"? Who remembers who these soilmen are? Where are those Slavophiles? Does anyone remember Pan-Slavism (for which the Black Hundreds respect Dostoevsky, for the idea of ​​a Slovenian state with the leading role of the Russian people)? For someone else, do the words autocracy, Orthodoxy, nationality mean something? The last Slavophile in power, this is the German Nicholas II, since then only "Westerners".
      That the primordially Russian remained in Russia after the "Westernizer" Peter I was finished off by the "Westernizers" Bolsheviks.
      And in my inexperienced opinion, Dostoevsky is a representative of "Western" culture, what is native Russian in his work? That is why he is so popular in the West, he is understandable there.
  27. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 10 May 2020 18: 40
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    This is much better, otherwise talk about "ass" "syphilitic", etc. are not worthy of the high title of a reasonable man As I understand it, we have dealt with Nazism and you will no longer belittle other nations?

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    F.M. Dostoevsky.

    Dostoevsky, of course, is an authoritative author, but it’s an old demagogic trick to come up with a spherical liberal in a vacuum, come up with some bad properties, and then violently denounce them.
    As they say, history will judge us. You will not argue that history has judged Dostoevsky's "native" and "Westernizers"? Who remembers who these soilmen are? Where are those Slavophiles? Does anyone remember Pan-Slavism (for which the Black Hundreds respect Dostoevsky, for the idea of ​​a Slovenian state with the leading role of the Russian people)? For someone else, do the words autocracy, Orthodoxy, nationality mean something? The last Slavophile in power, this is the German Nicholas II, since then only "Westerners".
    That the primordially Russian remained in Russia after the "Westernizer" Peter I was finished off by the "Westernizers" Bolsheviks.
    And in my inexperienced opinion, Dostoevsky is a representative of "Western" culture, what is native Russian in his work? That is why he is so popular in the West, he is understandable there.

    Not only Westerners know Dostoevsky. But thinking. It is not easy, it needs to be understood only through reflection. Originally Russian in it is patriotism.

    I do not harass others. EVALUATE - yes. Without this, anyone and everyone appeared in vain on Earth. And I know the expression of Confucius.

    Order begins with the proper naming of things.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 12 May 2020 13: 46
      -2
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Originally Russian in it is patriotism.

      But non-Russian patriotism does not happen? Of course, I read it for a long time, but what is in his great works of the patriotic?

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      I do not harass others. EVALUATE - yes. Without this, anyone and everyone appeared in vain on Earth. And I know the expression of Confucius.

      Order begins with the proper naming of things.

      The Nazis also "judged" people by their origins. I think they would agree with you that

      Stupid and lazy

      - but not only about Ukraine, but also added - Russia. What is the difference between you?
  28. 69 Offline 69
    69 12 May 2020 14: 01
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    But non-Russian patriotism does not happen?

    It happens, even in abundance, but he usually has a disgusting and thieving, Russophobic mug.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 15 May 2020 00: 17
      -2
      Quote: 69P
      It happens, even in abundance, but he usually has a disgusting and thieving, Russophobic mug.

      Something doesn’t look like you, I forgot to mention the Jews. And so yes, the whole world sits and cannot eat, but only Russophobia.
  29. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 12 May 2020 14: 51
    +3
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    Originally Russian in it is patriotism.

    But non-Russian patriotism does not happen? Of course, I read it for a long time, but what is in his great works of the patriotic?

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    I do not harass others. EVALUATE - yes. Without this, anyone and everyone appeared in vain on Earth. And I know the expression of Confucius.

    Order begins with the proper naming of things.

    The Nazis also "judged" people by their origins. I think they would agree with you that

    Stupid and lazy

    but not only about Ukraine, but also added to Russia. What is the difference between you?

    It is quite possible.
    But somehow Dostoevsky did not want to think about these problems. Strange, isn't it? Adolf Schicklgruber, a much more well-known personality, could think of German democracy.
    You don’t know a fig expression of the PHILOSOPHER. You evaluate the outside, only what is written. And we ought to look at the root. He was not talking about things, not about his country. But only about your own, which is right. He didn’t recommend anyone, but talked about his own. Likewise, the "appraisal" of the alien peoples by the Nazis. From here the legs of boobiness grow. Dostoevsky wrote ABOUT OWN .... You are about strangers. Do not such your "assessments" coincide with .....?
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 15 May 2020 00: 33
      -2
      Only three more hours, and are you already resting?

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Likewise, the Hitlerites' "assessment" of foreign peoples. From here the legs of boobiness grow. Dostoevsky wrote ABOUT OWN .... You are about strangers. Do not such your "assessments" coincide with .....?

      And so you wrote it about YOURS.

      The stupid and lazy Ukraine, chewing fat and thinking that the hut is on the edge, was under the ass of those Bandera, brought up for centuries in the cattle yards of western lords.

      - about your people? So what are you, Ukrainian? Well, self-critical. Then I apologize. But do not generalize, and judge all the people only by themselves. Believe me, among Ukrainians there are no less good people than among Russians. Or Jews, Germans, Americans or any other people.
  30. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 12 May 2020 14: 53
    +3
    Quote: 69P
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    But non-Russian patriotism does not happen?

    It happens, even in abundance, but he usually has a disgusting and thieving, Russophobic mug.

    You are wrong here. Patriot takes care of his country. And Ruso ..... German .... Czech ... Estonian ... ..... phobias here have nothing to do. It is not phobias that work here, but branches.
  31. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 15 May 2020 00: 43
    0
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Only three more hours, and are you already resting?

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    Likewise, the Hitlerites' "assessment" of foreign peoples. From here the legs of boobiness grow. Dostoevsky wrote ABOUT OWN .... You are about strangers. Do not such your "assessments" coincide with .....?

    Ah, so you wrote it about YOURS

    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    The stupid and lazy Ukraine, chewing fat and thinking that the hut is on the edge, was under the ass of those Bandera, brought up for centuries in the cattle yards of western lords.

    - about your people? So what are you, Ukrainian? Well, self-critical. Then I apologize. But do not generalize, and judge all the people only by themselves. Believe me, among Ukrainians there are no less good people than among Russians. Or Jews, Germans, Americans or any other people.

    Light shit always lies on top. When good people, whether they are Ukrainians or anyone else, show that they are, then the conversation will be different.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 17 May 2020 16: 30
      -2
      I am convinced that there are no bad nations. This applies to your compatriots Ukrainians.
  32. aleksandrmakedo Offline aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo (Dubovitsky Victor Kuzmich) 15 May 2020 00: 47
    0
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    What is the difference between you?

    The fact that we have not rehabilitated our bastards like Vlasov and will never begin to do it. They were and will remain bastards. Ukrainians pray to their executioners, who destroyed their compatriots no less than the Nazis. If the Germans did not nail children to the fences, then yours did it with taste.
    This is what makes us different.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) 17 May 2020 16: 56
      -3
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      The fact that we have not rehabilitated our bastards like Vlasov and will never begin to do it.

      I would not be so categorical in your place. This is all from your poor knowledge of history. Take comrade Lenin. The man publicly called for the defeat of his country, used the intelligence services of the enemies of his homeland to get into the Republic of Ingushetia. Most likely, I received money from them. In modern terms, treason and betrayal. But they prayed for him for 70 years, and now many people in Russia continue to do this.
      Or take Comrade Yeltsin. I don’t think so, but many in Russia (I’m sure that you are) consider him a traitor, but at the official level he is the founder of the Russian Federation and his memory is perpetuated in every possible way.

      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      They were and will remain bastards. Ukrainians pray to their executioners, who destroyed their compatriots no less than the Nazis. If the Germans did not nail children to the fences, then yours did it with taste.

      Do you, as a Ukrainian, pray to your executioners? Don’t pray like that.
      Where is the Russian children nailed to the fence? On the first channel they broadcast that your Ukrainians did it, but then it turned out that this was some kind of crazy nonsense.