Buk complexes fired for the first time on Israeli aircraft in Syria


On the night of April 21-22, F-16 fighters from Israeli territory invaded Syrian airspace, Arab media reported.


Israeli aircraft fired six missiles at facilities located in the Syrian province of Homs. F-16 attacked the settlements of Al-Talil, Al-Amiriya and Es-Sukhne, located near Palmyra. Previously, experts and employees of PMCs from Russia were seen in these places. Three of the six missiles were shot down. It was not possible to damage the attacking aircraft due to the powerful electronic defense.

It is still difficult to say which side of the border of the Syrian Republic fighter jets arrived from. If the attack was launched from the west, one can doubt the quality of the S-300 missile defense systems, which are armed with the ATS. It is likely that Israeli pilots used the airspace of Jordan and invaded Syria from the south.

Syrian air defense did not immediately respond to the air strikes of the Israelis - the Buk anti-aircraft missile system and the Pantsir-C1 air defense system were used to retaliate. The Buk fired two missiles at the Israeli Air Force fighters, but the result of the attack is not known.

Arab sources say that this was the first use of Buk systems directly against Israeli aircraft, and not on the missiles they launched.
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  1. Afinogen Online Afinogen
    Afinogen (Afinogen) April 22 2020 12: 45
    +4
    Arab sources say that this was the first use of Buk systems directly against Israeli aircraft, and not on the missiles they launched.

    As they begin to shoot down, Israel will stop hooligan.
    1. 69 Offline 69
      69 April 22 2020 12: 55
      +6
      This is not hooliganism, but a war crime.
      1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 01: 18
        0
        Quote: 69P
        This is not hooliganism, but a war crime.

        When talking about a war crime, they usually refer to a sentence. But speaking of Israel, this is not necessary. Is not it?
        1. Pereira Offline Pereira
          Pereira (Michael) April 23 2020 14: 50
          +1
          But speaking of Israel, this is not necessary. Is not it?

          Of course. Planet Earth has long condemned the bandit practices of Israel.
    2. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 12: 57
      -7
      In 2018, one Israeli plane was shot down - did this somehow help Syria?
      1. Afinogen Online Afinogen
        Afinogen (Afinogen) April 22 2020 13: 09
        +7
        If they shoot down at least one per raid, then Israel will stop making raids. And if with impunity, then he will continue to do lawlessness longer.
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 13: 51
          -11
          What is lawlessness?
          1. Afinogen Online Afinogen
            Afinogen (Afinogen) April 22 2020 17: 40
            +3
            And what, is it legitimate to bomb a sovereign state ??? Hitler also began with this, without declaring war, viciously inflicted bombing attacks. It turns out (in your opinion) is also legal ??? I understand that if Israel honestly declared war on Syria, it seems like yes. And so vile, and even from not its airspace, and even a country greatly weakened by the civil war. Probably, when Syria was strong (before the American coup) Israel did not dare to bomb, it could lead to a good grasp of the answer.
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 17: 46
              -6
              I understand that if Israel honestly declared war on Syria, it seems like yes.

              So Syria itself declared war on Israel and there is no peace treaty between them.

              Probably, when Syria was strong (before the American coup) Israel did not dare to bomb, it could lead to a good grasp of the answer.

              laughing laughing Read about the Arab-Israeli war, or what))

              And so vile, and even not from its own airspace

              - Should they proudly breastfeed on the embrasure?) Jews are not fools.
      2. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) April 22 2020 13: 10
        +9
        In 2018, one Israeli plane was shot down - did this somehow help Syria?

        Apparently, one is not enough. The Vietnamese, for example, did this “in series,” and eventually helped them. yes
        What do you mean? You just need to relax and have fun?
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 13: 54
          -2
          The Vietnamese, for example, were doing this "in series", they eventually helped

          Behind the Vietnamese was China and the USSR. For Syria, only Iran and Russia - the latter, by the way, do not want to fight with Israel in any way.

          What do you mean? You just need to relax and have fun?

          For that matter, then Syria had to take up the mind and agree to a peace treaty when Israel proposed. This had to be done, and done for a long time.
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) April 22 2020 13: 58
            +4
            Behind the Vietnamese was China and the USSR. For Syria, only Iran and Russia - the latter, by the way, do not want to fight with Israel in any way.

            That's just on the other side of the "non-US".

            For that matter, then Syria had to take up the mind and agree to a peace treaty when Israel proposed. This had to be done, and done for a long time

            For that matter, then there is nothing to fly and bomb someone else’s territory. If you talk like that, it turns out that September 11 is only a consequence of a short-sighted policy, it was necessary to agree with the Arabs earlier.
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 16: 08
              -5
              That's just on the other side of the "non-US".

              - What does the USA have to do with it?

              For that matter, then there is nothing to fly and bomb someone else’s territory.

              - the forces of Iran are deployed on this foreign territory - a country that officially (that is, from the mouth of the leadership) seeks to destroy Israel as a state. This time. Two - Syria refused to sign a peace treaty with Israel, Syria does not maintain any diplomatic relations with Israel. In fact and legally, these are hostile countries, so Israel has the full and wartime right to strike at the territory of Syria. Syria, however, also has the right to strike at Israeli territory.

              If you talk like that, it turns out that September 11 is only a consequence of a short-sighted policy, it was necessary to agree with the Arabs earlier.

              - absolutely right. September 11 is a consequence of the punctures of American foreign policy.
          2. yuriy55 Offline yuriy55
            yuriy55 (Yuri Vasilievich) April 22 2020 17: 29
            +2
            Quote: Cyril
            For that matter, then Syria had to take up the mind and agree to a peace treaty when Israel proposed. This had to be done, and done for a long time.

            Wow? And here it is written completely different:

            Israel and Syria determined the conditions for concluding a peace treaty during secret bilateral negotiations held in Europe from September 2004 to July 2006, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz writes on Tuesday.

            According to the agreements reached, Israel was to transfer the Golan Heights to Syria, pushing the border to the line along which it ran until June 4, 1967. The term for the transfer of territories remained undefined: Syria insisted on five years, Israel on 15.

            A buffer zone was planned along the Sea of ​​Galilee, in which a park was to be set up, open to visitors from Syria and Israel. The new park would cover a significant part of the Golan.

            At the same time, Israel maintained control over the use of the water of the Jordan River and Lake Galilee.

            In addition, the border territories were to be demilitarized by both sides to unequal depths, which were in the ratio 1: 4 in favor of Israel.

            Syria pledged to stop supporting Hezbollah and Hamas movements and abandon partnerships with Iran.

            Haaretz notes that the arrangements were not documented.

            Secret negotiations ceased after Syria demanded that they be transferred to the official level. The Syrian leadership proposed to start negotiations at the level of deputy foreign ministers with the participation of a representative of the US State Department. However, Israel refused this proposal, in turn, proposing to lower the level of the negotiation process to "academic."
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 10: 04
              -1
              Your article is not entirely accurate.

              Contacts ceased after the Syrians demanded to suspend meetings at an unofficial level and put forward a proposal to hold a secret meeting at the level of Deputy Minister on the Syrian side, and with the Israeli - at Director General of the Ministry with the participation of senior US officials. Israel did not agree with this requirement.

              That is, from the side of Syria, the deputy minister was supposed to negotiate, and from Israel - the head of the ministry. In other words, if the agreement would cease to suit Syria, she could easily refuse it, because it was not the boss who participated in it, but his subordinate.
            2. Binder Offline Binder
              Binder (Miron) April 23 2020 15: 33
              -1
              Quote: yuriy55
              And here it is written completely different:

              The newspaper הארץ is the mouthpiece of the Israeli liberals, its publications should not be trusted. Such a treaty would not have been approved by the Knesset, so these are just silly fantasies. hi
          3. Ibuprofen Offline Ibuprofen
            Ibuprofen (Novel) April 25 2020 15: 35
            -2
            Israel chopped off very valuable territories, and then offered peace. Naturally, Syria did not agree.
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) 4 May 2020 01: 17
              -1
              Israel chopped off very valuable territories, and then offered peace

              Yes, and offered to return the Golan Heights in exchange for the signing of a peace treaty.
              Syria did not agree. Well what to say ...
        2. Yes, flip flops on the S-50 every day 2-3 amers fell easily.
        3. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 10: 04
          +1
          Quote: 123
          In 2018, one Israeli plane was shot down - did this somehow help Syria?

          Apparently, one is not enough. The Vietnamese, for example, did this “in series,” and eventually helped them. yes
          What do you mean? You just need to relax and have fun?

          Shot down, speak? Yah? It would be necessary to clarify at least three fundamental points.
          1. Not shot down, but knocked out. These are different things. The plane safely reached its territory, the kids are alive and well. Compote is eaten, as it is sung in one Odessa hit.
          2. This wrecked (non-wrecked) aircraft was the first Israeli aircraft to be hit by Arabs in the past nearly 50 years.
          3. Pilots did not comply with the instructions of the earth and violated the instructions when performing a combat mission. In particular, they took a lower echelon than they should. The working moment, and purely technical besides. So "This never repeats." Remember these words of a plain Soviet song.
          4. On the same day, Alaerdi, El Aavir smashed the entire Syrian air defense along the incident. To be discouraged.
          5. After delivering the S-300 to Assad, a military specialist in the field of air defense spoke on Israeli television. For access to understanding the value of S-300, in Russian. So he said that as soon as the S-300 directs a beam at an Israeli aircraft, it is clearly hit, even before the launch of a rocket. And electronic interference is a matter of course. Junk in a word, scrap. And they didn’t shoot at air targets because then the S-300 would not let anyone in, in the sense it would be impossible to sell.
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) April 23 2020 14: 50
            +1
            Shot down, speak? Yah? It would be necessary to clarify at least three fundamental points.
            1. Not shot down, but knocked out. ....

            About the downed plane - this is not for me, talk with Cyril. Tell him fairy tales that they didn’t actually knock him down, but knocked him down, and even possibly didn’t knock him down, and carried them home with flowers. winked Technical details, by his own stupidity or because of a miscalculation of command, he caught a rocket under the tail, in this case it does not matter. no The conversation was that in order to stop raids, it is necessary to inflict unacceptable damage on the attacking side. There is no other way.

            On the same day, Alaerdi, El Aavir were torn apart ....

            These details do not interest me. You can tell your counterpart to the Kyrgyz Manas to someone else.

            After delivering the S-300 to Assad, a military specialist in the field of air defense appeared on Israeli television. For an understanding of the value of the S-300, on
            Russian language. So he said that as soon as the S-300 directs a beam at an Israeli aircraft, it is clearly hit, even before the launch of a rocket. And electronic interference is a matter of course. Junk in a word, scrap. And they didn’t shoot at air targets because then the S-300 couldn’t be used for anyone, in the sense of selling.

            We also have enough such "experts", I can recommend one such on YouTube, Dushenov, take it to yourself, let it caress your ears. Pleasant things are told how the S-300 self-destructs from one stern glance, and in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation plaster from the ceilings crumbles.
            All these unpunished raids are possible only due to the lack of a comprehensive Syrian air defense system.
      3. AICO Offline AICO
        AICO (Vyacheslav) April 22 2020 13: 40
        +3
        One - it did not help, and when they fill up with a dozen - it will come !!! Down and Out trouble started!
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 13: 55
          -6
          While the Syrians fill up 10 Israeli aircraft, the Syrian air defense will be pulverized
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) April 22 2020 15: 10
            +2
            While the Syrians fill up 10 Israeli aircraft, the Syrian air defense will be pulverized

            These are just your dreams.
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 16: 03
              -4
              These are just your wet teenage dreams.

              These are not my dreams, this is history. Read about Operation Medvedka 19 somehow.
              1. 123 Offline 123
                123 (123) April 22 2020 16: 22
                +2
                Is this an argument for continuing the bombing of a sovereign state?
                Medvedka 19 - yes, this is an argument, it remains to be hoped that the Roman legionnaires will not reappear. Read about taking Mossada. This is to say that the level of argumentation you have is teenage.
                1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 16: 26
                  -6
                  Is this an argument for continuing the bombing of a sovereign state?

                  This is an argument to ensure your safety.

                  This is to say that the level of argumentation you have is teenage.

                  I have a normal level of argument, confirmed by a completely normal analogy from the relatively recent past. Moreover, the past, when Syria was much stronger than today, and the USSR helped it to fight precisely against Israel, and not only supplied equipment, but sent its troops there.
                  1. 123 Offline 123
                    123 (123) April 22 2020 16: 41
                    +3
                    This is an argument to ensure your safety.

                    I suppose such stupid things as international law do not bother you? Maybe it’s time for us to take care of our safety? Where do you propose starting? Ukraine? The Baltic states?

                    I have a normal level of argument, confirmed by a completely normal analogy from the relatively recent past. Moreover, the past, when Syria was much stronger than today, and the USSR helped it to fight precisely against Israel, and not only supplied equipment, but sent its troops there.

                    An example from the past does not replace the analysis of the current state of things. Interestingly, did you take Iranian missiles into account? What systems are in service with Israel’s air defense, how did they manifest themselves in Iraq and Saudi Arabia? How can this even end, can you imagine? Or is it for you a "game of toy soldiers". Everything can end with a lot of blood. You do not mind these little things?
                    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                      Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 16: 52
                      -3
                      I guess stupid things like international law don't bother you

                      Just from the point of view of international law, Israel does everything absolutely legally. Once again, both countries are at war (declared, by the way, Syria). Between them there is neither a peace treaty, nor diplomatic or economic relations (as between the Russian Federation and Japan, for example). And since countries are at war, international law allows them to strike at each other's territories.

                      Maybe it’s time for us to take care of our safety?

                      Has anyone attacked Russia?

                      An example from the past does not replace the analysis of the current state of things.

                      Well, analyze the Israeli Air Force and Syrian Air Defense))

                      What systems are in service with Israel’s air defense, how did they manifest themselves in Iraq and Saudi Arabia?

                      If you are talking about the Patriot, then you showed yourself quite normally.

                      How can this even end, can you imagine?

                      A full-fledged military confrontation between Syria and Israel? Of course - the complete defeat of Syria.

                      Interestingly, did you take Iranian missiles into account?

                      Is Syrian Air Defense in Syria?

                      Or is it for you a "game of toy soldiers".

                      - of course.

                      Everything can end with a lot of blood.

                      - Israel is not the first time fighting against Muslim countries. Moreover, several at once. And he always came out the winner. Sometimes with difficulty, but always won. Because if for Muslims this is some kind of abstract jihad and struggle for faith, for Israel it is a matter of existence as a country. And Israel in fact proved that its army is one of the most effective and efficient in the world.

                      You do not mind these little things?

                      - and should? Are you trying to put moral pressure on me?
                      1. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) April 22 2020 17: 34
                        +2
                        Or is it for you a "game of toy soldiers".

                        - of course.

                        Everything is clear to me. I have no more questions. If you grow up, we’ll talk.
                      2. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 17: 42
                        -2
                        If you grow up, we’ll talk.

                        - No, let's talk when you use normal logic instead of emotions and moralizing.
                      3. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) April 22 2020 17: 44
                        -3
                        Go collect toys, mother will curse.
                      4. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) April 22 2020 17: 47
                        -4
                        Pfff)) Is that all you can do?
                2. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 00: 54
                  +4
                  Israel fears Iran like fire. Slightly what, behind the back of the Americans is trying to hide. Like mongrel small. Israel was afraid of Syria, while that one had chemical weapons. The Syrians destroyed him - the Jews immediately became bolder. Well, now there is no need to fear if the wind blows from the Syrian side. Sneaky somehow that's all. About the war of Israel and Syria:

                  ... A full-fledged military confrontation between Syria and Israel? Of course - the complete defeat of Syria.

                  Well, we are likely to see this soon. Therefore, it makes no sense to argue, although I think that by defeating it could end for Israel. Still, the Syrians, too, have gained experience in recent years. And their ally will try not to offend their weapons. Underestimating them is the height of naivety, if not arrogant stupidity.
                3. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 09: 33
                  +1
                  Israel was afraid of Syria, while that one had chemical weapons.

                  Yeah, so afraid that he regularly conducted military operations against her.

                  Still, the Syrians, too, have gained experience in recent years.

                  Experience in fighting partisan / terrorist groups, not a full-fledged regular army. Yes, and we will be honest - without the help of Russia and Iran, even the Syrians would not have been able to cope with them.

                  And their ally will try not to offend their weapons.

                  The USSR also supplied Syria with modern weapons at that time. Which did not stop her from regularly raking from Israel. Because weapons are not enough just to have - they need to be able to use.

                  Underestimating them is the height of naivety, if not arrogant stupidity.

                  It is not naive to call an objectively weak army weak.
                4. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
                  Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 10: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: Dear couch expert.
                  Israel fears Iran like fire. Slightly what, behind the back of the Americans is trying to hide. Like mongrel small.

                  Feel better! Well, thank God. And Israel fears Iran even more than fire. He fears Iran even more than you personally. Although this is surprising. You are much more terrible, both for Israel and for the entire Jewish people. And apparently, "for the sake of Jewish fear" from time to time, at a low speed, an Iranian cargo 200 is sent to Tehran. Usually, uh, a little disassembled. And once the Iranians tried to deliver weapons in Cyclopean dimensions on a Greek ship guarded by two military frigates of the Iranian Navy to Gaza. They were intercepted by Jewish missile carriers. So what ....? The Israelis made an unambiguous maneuver: combat readiness for a missile attack. It looked beautiful on the video. The Persians died without a fight, of course. A captured ship, chock-full of weapons, was driven to Haifa.
                  Iran Israel is afraid - not to respect itself. Tanks - T-55 are in service. There is practically no air force. Why be afraid of something. The Persians could not cope with Iraq either. And that Israel was beating Iraq so that the Iraqi dust stood in a column. It is funny for you and even for me.
    3. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 01: 23
      0
      Quote: 123
      While the Syrians fill up 10 Israeli aircraft, Syrian air defense will be crushed into powder.

      These are just your dreams.

      Let me disagree with you. Dream is an abstract category. And if you take objective factors, then your post is clearly a loser. This is the Syrian-Iranian position of the Jewish pilots wash powder. Lossless and.
  • Binder Offline Binder
    Binder (Miron) April 23 2020 15: 38
    -1
    Quote: AICO
    and when they fill up with a dozen, it will come !!!

    Unreasonable young man! Syria will cease to exist long before it manages to bring down ten Israeli aircraft. lol
  • Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 00: 32
    0
    Israel needs not only to shoot down planes, but also to destroy the airfields with which they take off with missiles. This is exactly what the Israelis do with the Palestinians. Dozens of relatives of Palestinian patriots bulldozing houses?
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 00: 57
      +1
      Quote: Dear couch expert.
      Israel needs not only to shoot down planes, but also to destroy the airfields with which they take off with missiles. This is exactly what the Israelis do with the Palestinians. Dozens of relatives of Palestinian patriots bulldozing houses?

      Suppose, not Palestinian patriots, but Islamic terrorists. Moreover, only after they committed terrorist acts against civilian Israeli citizens. And then the houses of terrorists are demolished only after the decision of the Israeli courts about this. By the way, Kadyrov, who is Ramzan, is doing the same with regard to Chechen terrorists. And rightly so, by the way. You look at the video where the leader of Chechnya says that if a terrorist, then the law is not the law, you need to shoot it on the spot. Very lucidly explains. I completely agree with him.
      1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 01: 05
        +1
        I completely agree with Kadyrov. But this is not about him, Kadyrov did not seize the land of the Palestinians. Palestinians are fighting for their land, for their rights, so the Israelis have no right to call them terrorists.
        1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 01: 33
          +1
          Quote: Dear couch expert.
          I completely agree with Kadyrov. But this is not about him, Kadyrov did not seize the land of the Palestinians. Palestinians are fighting for their land, for their rights, so the Israelis have no right to call them terrorists.

          Israel also never took a centimeter of land from the Palestinians. And that's why :
          1. Palestinians were called Jews in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
          2. Arabs have 22 states, and Allah alone knows how they differ from each other. And the Arabs who came to Palestine after the Jews, in the years of the first Aliya to feed themselves, never had any state.
          3. On the territory of modern Israel, not a second in the history of mankind, there was no state other than Israel and Judea.
          4. Israel does not occupy an inch of anyone’s land.
          5. The Arabs, who came in large numbers to Palestine, not only occupied, but even annexed the city of Bethlehem, which, even by the UN decision, did not withdraw to the uncreated Arab state.
          6. De facto, on the western bank of the Jordan and in the Gaza Strip, there are already not one, but even two Arab states.
          So you have emotions, not facts. And hatred of the Jews is not a reason to cover Arab hijabs.
        2. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 09: 58
          0
          Palestinians are fighting for their land, for their rights, so the Israelis have no right to call them terrorists.

          Here are just the lands allotted by a UN decision to the territory of an independent Arab state, in 1948-49, it was not Israel that seized it, but quite Arab countries (Transjordan, Egypt and Syria))
      2. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 01: 08
        -1
        Israel is accused by human rights organizations of disproportionate use of force and of not making a special distinction between the civilian population and the militants during the conduct of hostilities. Among the accusations against Israel are the deliberate shelling of civilians, the use of human shields, the intentional and unjustified from a military point of view destruction of infrastructure, industry and residential buildings in the Gaza Strip, attacks on hospitals, schools and UN facilities, the use of white phosphorus in densely populated neighborhoods. In the course of Israeli actions, more than 1 people died. Of these, from 400 to 500 representatives of Hamas and the Palestinian police and from 700 to 500 civilians, including hundreds of children. More than 900 people were injured.

        Wikipedia
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 10: 03
            0
            This laughter comes from your stupidity. I am writing from the phone, I copied the phone like that. Any other questions on the merits?
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 10: 09
              0
              Who cares if you copy from your phone or computer?)

              In essence - of course there is. I bet that when the same human rights organizations accused Russia of genocide of the Chechens or total mopping up of Chechen villages, accompanied by mass deaths of civilians, you said with foam at the mouth that all these human rights defenders are corrupt girls from the West and brazenly lie to defame Russia and expose her in an unsightly light?
  • asr55 Offline asr55
    asr55 (asr) 4 May 2020 00: 38
    0
    If an Israeli plane was shot down by the Syrian air defense system and how did it help Syria !? Just amazing! You seriously don’t understand or even guess !? Maybe you can figure it out once more, which helps to destroy the enemy aircraft for the side that is being protected.
  • Alexzn Online Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) April 22 2020 18: 09
    -3
    Quote: Athenogen
    Arab sources say that this was the first use of Buk systems directly against Israeli aircraft, and not on the missiles they launched.

    As they begin to shoot down, Israel will stop hooligan.

    The naive question is - why aren't Syrians shooting down?
    1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 00: 35
      -1
      Because Israel does not fly into Syria, but sneakily and cowardly shoots rockets from Lebanese airspace.
      1. Alexzn Online Alexzn
        Alexzn (Alexander) April 23 2020 08: 11
        -1
        Quote: Dear couch expert.
        Because Israel does not fly into Syria, but sneakily and cowardly shoots rockets from Lebanese airspace.

        Are you this bullshit seriously?
        In almost 70% of strikes, Syrian air defenses try to bring down planes and they are not at all bothered by whose airspace they are located. In 20%, attacks are carried out from the airspace of Syria itself.
        In the latter case, the aircraft entered from the south.
        1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 10: 05
          -2
          This is all your speculation.
    2. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 01: 09
      0
      Quote: AlexZN
      Quote: Athenogen
      Arab sources say that this was the first use of Buk systems directly against Israeli aircraft, and not on the missiles they launched.

      As they begin to shoot down, Israel will stop hooligan.

      The naive question is - why aren't Syrians shooting down?

      They could - would have been shot down long ago. That's the whole answer. The publication about this is very correct, albeit in passing, but indicated. Say, "we would be on the horns of a bull, only radio-electronic interference of the Israelis interfere." Still, Israeli high-tech is one thing, and the S-300 is something completely different. Even during the Yom Kippur War, the Israeli Navy under the command of Captain 1st Rank Michael Barkai for the first time in the history of naval battles, out of sight of each other's opponents, destroyed the Syrian and Egyptian navies. In the glorious battles of Latakia and Damietta. Without losing a single warship, not a single person of personnel. And what was not shown to the Syrian and Egyptian sailors on the displays of their "Komarov" and "Os": both ships and helicopters. At which the Arabs fired all the missiles. Bam-bam .... by. Alaverdi, all Arab missile carriers were sent to their assigned part of the Mediterranean Sea - to the bottom. If the enemy dares to go to war, we will arrange a walk on the bottom for Him. The Jewish Navy, the Jewish Navy - will not fail.
      1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 01: 17
        -1
        Once again for nonsense: a fair wind and a barrel of sarin - and there is no small arrogant country! Only thanks to the efforts of the Russian State were stockpiled Syrian chemical weapons. The state on the site of which you are currently trying to crap. Who are you after that?
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 09: 37
          +1
          ... a fair wind and a barrel of sarin - and there is no small arrogant country!

          Read somehow at your leisure about the effectiveness of chemical weapons, and why even Germany during the Second World War did not risk using it against enemy countries.
          1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 10: 07
            -1
            The second part of the written, apparently, did not hurt you.
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 10: 14
              0
              But should have?
              1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 10: 33
                -1
                It is up to you. A Jew would hurt it, ukrotroll - no. Something like that)
                1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 10: 36
                  0
                  A Jew would hurt it, ukrotroll - no. Something like that)

                  Liquidated about your assumption that I live in Israel, have you now "settled" in Ukraine?) I live and always lived in Russia)
        2. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 10: 24
          +2
          Quote: Dear couch expert.
          ... once again for the idiots: a fair wind and a barrel of sarin - and there is no small arrogant country! Only thanks to the efforts of the Russian State were stockpiled Syrian chemical weapons. The state on the site of which you are currently trying to crap. Who are you after that?

          Nervous, go to the person. Hysteria - and even man's - is always a miserable sight. I understand - quarantine. A barrel of sarin, a handful of bleach, a pinch of dust and no Israel. This is a diagnosis. Yours, my dear.
          1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 10: 33
            -2
            See previous answer.
          2. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 10: 38
            0
            Nervous, go to the person.

            And he has nothing else left. After all, there is no logic or factual argument in his reasoning. If a person does not understand the shortcomings of chemical weapons - what to take from him?
            1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
              Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 11: 41
              0
              Quote: Cyril
              Nervous, go to the person.

              And he has nothing else left. After all, there is no logic or factual argument in his reasoning. If a person does not understand the shortcomings of chemical weapons - what to take from him?

              Of course. As I understand it, you hinted to him the use of mustard gas, it seems, during the years of the first World War. When the wind carried gas towards the initiators - the Germans. But for such characters, this is already higher mathematics. For example, he, the incident with Liberty, considers in the context of Israel’s desire to provoke a US war and defeated by Israel, by that time in Egypt’s rags. He doesn’t even ask: why does the victorious Israel need this? Referring to Lyndon Johnson from virtual sources, he had never heard that he was generally against Israel’s preemptive strike against the aggressors.

              Do not act alone and you will not be left alone.

              With such an “opponent” one involuntarily feels God-chosen. )
              1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 12: 18
                -1
                As I understand it, you hinted to him the use of mustard gas, it seems, during the years of the first World War. When the wind carried gas towards the initiators - the Germans

                Exactly. The practice of using chemical weapons by all parties in World War I empirically showed that it is not particularly effective against the enemies on the front line (namely, the "sofa expert"), but there are many risks for its own troops. The only rational option for its use is the delivery of chemical ammunition inland. That's just for this we need aviation, long-range artillery or missile systems, with which Syria is not so hot.

                He doesn’t even ask: why does the victorious Israel need this?

                He says that the United States supposedly needed this, although the logic in this reasoning is completely absent.
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 00: 51
    +2
    Do not tell me the answer to just one question: when will they start to shoot down? Very curious, very interesting.
    1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 01: 10
      0
      Syrians will not shoot down over the territories of third states.
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 09: 38
        0
        Syrians will not shoot down over the territories of third states.

        laughing laughing Funny.
        1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 10: 11
          -3
          But attack your territory as they can. It will come to this. When the tanks will ride through the streets, you will restrain laughter, so as not to put yourself in your pants.
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 10: 13
            0
            But attack your territory as they can.

            Syrians will be able to attack the territory of Russia? O_o

            It will come to this.

            Yes Yes Yes. "Be sure to bang. And more than once. The whole world is in dust. But then." (c) DMB.

            The Syrians would first have traveled tanks in their territory.
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 22 2020 14: 11
    -1
    I hope that Boeing and other passenger flights do not fly anywhere nearby !!
    This is the main thing.
    And the Israelis-as the cards will fall. Let the missiles train to shoot down ...
    1. 123 Offline 123
      123 (123) April 22 2020 15: 12
      +2
      I hope that nearby Boeings and other passengers do not fly !!

      Do not fly.

      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 22 2020 15: 34
        -2
        Tse is good from all sides. Ilya and Ana have something else to come up with, save.
        1. 123 Offline 123
          123 (123) April 22 2020 16: 25
          +2
          You can monitor the situation, if that, warn. yes
          Now there is one Syrian plane in the sky.

          http://planeradar.ru/virtualradar/mobile.html#
        2. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 01: 21
          -1
          Is Il shot down over Iran?)
    2. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 00: 36
      -1
      In passenger Boeing, Ukrainians are unrivaled specialists here.
      1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 01: 10
        -1
        Iranians are not far behind.
        1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 01: 12
          -1
          But the Ukrainians took part there too)
  • 69 Offline 69
    69 April 22 2020 15: 47
    -1
    Quote: Cyril
    the latter, by the way, does not want to fight with Israel in any way.

    Do not wake famously, while it is quiet, still have time to redeem.
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 01: 15
      -1
      Quote: 69P
      Quote: Cyril
      the latter, by the way, does not want to fight with Israel in any way.

      Do not wake famously, while it is quiet, still have time to redeem.

      We are waiting (s). Almost 100 years now. And I must say: they waited. Peace with neighboring Egypt and Jordan. Actually an allied relationship with OAU, CA. The countries of the Maghreb do not act in a neutral way. Even Sudan fell to the handle, showed up in Kampala, everyone asked Bibi to establish a relationship. Syria and Libya in such a prostration that language does not turn to call them opponents. Israel is known as a strong man for nothing, seven in one stroke. And then we will do the same.
      1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 01: 19
        -1
        Ay, Moska, she is strong to know ...
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 09: 41
          +1
          The Moska at one time sank the American destroyer Liberty, which was spying in favor of the Arabs, and it did so well to the USSR Air Force in Operation Rimon-20. So much so that the USSR said to Egypt - "deal with the Jews yourself."
          1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 10: 15
            -1
            Yes, yes .. read about it.

            .. Israel stated that the attack on the ship was a tragic mistake. Like, they took the American ship for an Egyptian ship. The US administration did not officially dispute the Israeli version of the incident. Although even then many American analysts pointed out (and even proved by radio interception data) the conspiracy of the CIA and Mossad, the scandal was hushed up.

            Well, what is the heroism of the Jews ???
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 10: 17
              +1
              And who is talking about heroism? The Jews simply eliminated the American ship, collecting intelligence in favor of the Arabs. They did their job without seeing that the ship belongs to one of the two (at that time) superpowers in the world.
              1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 10: 25
                -1
                ... it was a joint game between the USA and Israel. At the same time, part of the top military-political leadership of the United States was not aware of the operation. The authoritative British writer and journalist Peter Hoonam, based on documents, proved in his book Operation Cyanide that Operation Cyanide was authorized by Washington. The order for the operation was given by US President Lyndon Johnson and Israeli Prime Minister Levy Eshkol. The operation was supposed to be a provocation aimed at eliminating the pro-Soviet regime of Gamal Abdel Nasser in Egypt.

                The death of the American ship, which was deliberately put up under attack, deprived of cover, should automatically lead to the aggression of the United States against Egypt and a serious crisis in relations with Moscow. The United States and Israel were to defeat Egypt and establish control over Suez, which led to the implementation of the plan of a part of the Jewish elite to create a “Great Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates” and to establish American control over the Middle East and the Mediterranean. In this regard, the position of Egypt is of military strategic importance. This sharply undermined the position of the Soviet Union in the region and in the whole world.

                Wikipedia

                Did your job ...

                - did what the Americans instructed them.
                1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 10: 34
                  +1
                  The operation was supposed to be a provocation aimed at eliminating the pro-Soviet regime of Gamal Abdel Nasser in Egypt

                  The death of the American ship, which was deliberately put under attack, depriving cover, was to automatically lead to aggression of the United States against Egypt

                  What nonsense. How could this incident serve as a pretext for aggravating relations between the USA and Egypt if the destroyer was sunk by the Israeli, and not the Egyptian Air Force? Moreover, the Israeli planes did not pretend to be Egyptian, and did the Americans on the Liberty know that they were exactly Israeli planes, since for several days before the incident they flew over the destroyer, and the crew welcomed them from the deck?

                  What the hell is this provocation?
          2. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
            Dart2027 April 23 2020 11: 59
            +1
            Quote: Cyril
            American destroyer Liberty

            USS Liberty (AGTR-5) ("Liberty") - a ship of electronic intelligence of the US Navy. That is, actually not intended for battle. And, by the way, they could not sink it.

            Quote: Cyril
            and not bad so the USSR Air Force

            - having shot down only 4 aircraft, for which it was necessary to use almost all the reconnaissance and assemble a special detachment.
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 12: 04
              0
              USS Liberty (AGTR-5) ("Liberty") - a ship of electronic intelligence of the US Navy. That is, actually not intended for battle. And, by the way, they could not sink it.

              It doesn’t matter what kind of ship it is or if it was sunk or not. The important thing is that Israel deliberately attacked the ship of one of the two superpowers and was not afraid of this.

              having shot down only 4 aircraft, for which it was necessary to use almost all the reconnaissance and assemble a special detachment.

              Well, first of all, the Soviet Union didn’t send skippers to Egypt either, and conducted reconnaissance in the same way. Secondly, this is not again unimportant in the context of the dispute - it is important that Israel was again not afraid to enter into direct confrontation with a superpower (already different).
              1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                Dart2027 April 23 2020 14: 24
                +2
                Quote: Cyril
                It doesn’t matter what kind of ship it is.

                If they could not sink a practically unarmed trough, then the attack on the destroyer would end sadly ... For them.

                Quote: Cyril
                Israel deliberately attacks a ship of one of the two superpowers

                Oh really? But I read that they took him for an Iranian ship.

                Quote: Cyril
                Israel again not afraid to enter into direct confrontation with a superpower

                I was not afraid. That's just the Soviet Union and was not going to get involved in the war seriously.
                1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 15: 59
                  -1
                  If they could not sink a practically unarmed trough, then the attack on the destroyer would end sadly ... For them.

                  Again. In the context of the dispute, it does not matter at all what kind of trough it was or what Israel would have been for drowning it. The important thing is that Israel, considering it necessary, took such a risk that could very easily ruin its relations with the United States.

                  Oh really? But I read that they took him for an Iranian ship.

                  Not Iranian, but Egyptian - with Iran at that time, Israel as a whole had norms. relations. This time. Secondly, Israel was well aware of whose ship it was. This is confirmed, among other things, by the negotiations of the pilots, and the fact that Jewish planes flew over the ship several times before the attack, on which were all the identification marks of the American Navy.

                  That's just the Soviet Union and was not going to get involved in the war seriously.

                  The USSR got seriously involved in this war, not just supplying equipment, but sending its regular troops to the combat zone. And directing them precisely against Israel.
                  1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                    Dart2027 April 23 2020 18: 30
                    +2
                    Quote: Cyril
                    Again. In the context of the dispute

                    That is, with the fact that the Israeli Air Force was unable to sink a practically unarmed ship with a normal crew, do you argue?

                    Quote: Cyril
                    Israel was well aware whose ship it was

                    For some reason, I always came across the exact opposite, for example, here:

                    https://guide-israel.ru/history/26311-liberti-1967/

                    Quote: Cyril
                    while sending their regular troops to the war zone

                    Which somehow did not particularly participate in the database, which lasted quite a while.
                    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                      Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 11: 57
                      -1
                      That is, with the fact that the Israeli Air Force was unable to sink a practically unarmed ship with a normal crew, do you argue?

                      That is, with the fact that you are replacing the theses, you also do not argue?

                      For some reason, I always came across the exact opposite, for example, here:

                      If you do not know how to search for information - this is your problem)

                      Which somehow did not particularly participate in the database, which lasted quite a while.

                      The Soviet pilots participated quite well, as did the Soviet air defense calculations.
                      1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                        Dart2027 April 24 2020 15: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Cyril
                        That is, with the fact that you are replacing the theses

                        That you are self-critical. However, perhaps you simply do not know the difference between ships of different classes.

                        Quote: Cyril
                        If you do not know how to search for information

                        Well, show where is it?

                        Quote: Cyril
                        The Soviet pilots participated quite well, as did the Soviet air defense calculations.

                        They were engaged in the protection of objects on the territory of Egypt, and tried not to get into the front zone itself, I strongly suspect that the USSR did not particularly trust the Egyptian government.
                      2. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 15: 40
                        -1
                        That you are self-critical.

                        - you substitute theses, not me.

                        However, perhaps you simply do not know the difference between ships of different classes.

                        Again. The example of Liberty, the operations of Medvedka-19 and Rimon-20 was cited to confirm that Israel, when it needed to, could well go for a military operation directed against the armed forces of superpowers (USA and USSR). Which ship and to what extent it suffered, does not matter in the context of the question at hand. Before you get into someone else’s dispute, first bother to find out what it is about.

                        Well, show where is it?

                        https://isroe.co.il/kak-izrail-atakoval-amerikanskij-korabl/

                        Before the attack, Israeli pilots flew over Liberty for 8 hours. Assume that they could not identify the ship as American in 8 hours, only a very naive person can.

                        They were engaged in the protection of objects on the territory of Egypt, and tried not to get into the front zone itself, I strongly suspect that the USSR did not particularly trust the Egyptian government.

                        Soviet troops participated in the hostilities against Israel, not only in the War of Attrition, but also, for example, in the 1982 Lebanon War. The USSR, of course, did not send an armada of tanks and crowds of infantrymen against Israel, but one could not call its participation in these wars “mediocre” either.
                      3. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                        Dart2027 April 24 2020 16: 52
                        +1
                        Quote: Cyril
                        you substitute theses, not me

                        So am I trying to pass off that unarmed ship as a destroyer?

                        Quote: Cyril
                        could well go for a military operation against the armed forces of superpowers

                        Which were not going to fight with him.

                        Quote: Cyril
                        https://isroe.co.il/kak-izrail-atakoval-amerikanskij-korabl/

                        That is, the Israeli army showed itself not as blind idiots, but as war criminals? And, by the way, an interesting fact, after that there was no reaction at all from the USA.

                        Quote: Cyril
                        The USSR, of course, did not send armada of tanks and crowds of infantrymen against Israel, but to call its participation in these wars "mediocre"

                        And this is mediocre participation. In fact, there were mostly instructors.
                      4. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 18: 26
                        0
                        So am I trying to pass off that unarmed ship as a destroyer?

                        Commentary, where I called the "Liberty" destroyer, I wrote from memory, so I made a mistake with the class of the ship. But, as I said (3 times, probably), the class of the ship and its purpose in the context of the dispute does not matter.

                        Which were not going to fight with him.

                        Well, firstly, the USSR faced Israel in direct battles. If I weren’t going to, I wouldn’t collide. Secondly, even if before these military incidents the superpowers did not seek to fight with Israel, then after them the risk of an armed conflict or any other retaliatory action (for example, ending all cooperation) against the Jews, even from the relatively friendly United States, was quite real. Because right after the incident with Liberty, part of the US military command was set up against Israel, if not hostile, then very, very cold.

                        In other words, the point is that Israel, knowing about such risks, was not afraid to purposefully attack both the American ship and the Soviet fighters or air defense. That does not fit with the thesis of my past opponent, who compared Israel with Moska from Krylov’s fable.

                        That is, the Israeli army showed itself not as blind idiots, but as war criminals?

                        Again you have a thesis substitution. Whether Israel committed a war crime or not by attacking an unarmed Liberty has nothing to do with the original theme of this thread of dispute.

                        In fact, there were mostly instructors.

                        Combat pilots are not "instructors." Air defense combat crews are also not "instructors." Ground-based electronic warfare groups are also not "instructors."

                        https://ru.wikipedia.org - про операцию "Кавказ" почитайте.

                        In the same place, a little lower, you can read about the direct participation of Soviet anti-aircraft and aviation calculations during the War of Depletion of 1967-1970.
                      5. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                        Dart2027 April 25 2020 08: 05
                        +1
                        Quote: Cyril
                        Well, firstly, the USSR faced Israel in direct battles.

                        Faced. That's just a full-fledged war, it did not draw. They also encountered the USA, and much more actively, but no one says that there was a war.

                        Quote: Cyril
                        risk of armed conflict or any other retaliation

                        If we assume that the United States helped Egypt, then a better gift than an attack on his ship in neutral waters, and even with a violation of a bunch of rules, can not be imagined. This is an ideal occasion for war. Sanctions? Is that all? In this case, an armed invasion would have begun; the United States has never been complex in these matters. But what do we see? At first, when the message came about the attack, it seems that the Egyptians ordered the beginning of the database, and then, after information appears that it was Israel, everything goes on the brakes. Findings? Either it really was a mistake and the United States knew about it, or it was a planned provocation, in order to get an excuse for the US attack on Egypt, until the truth comes up, and then it will no longer matter. But only the sailors were able to contact the fleet command, after which it became impossible to continue the operation.
                      6. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) April 25 2020 13: 05
                        +1
                        That's just a full-fledged war, it did not draw.

                        But I didn’t talk about the war. I talked about immediate clashes. The terms "war" and "clashes" have different legal status, but both imply a direct armed confrontation. For example, the battle between China and the USSR on Damansky is also not a legal war, but you can’t call it the “mediated” participation of both sides in the conflict?

                        If we assume that the United States helped Egypt, then a better gift than an attack on his ship in neutral waters, and even with a violation of a bunch of rules, can not be imagined. This is an ideal occasion for war.

                        There are several counterarguments. Firstly, the game is not worth the candle. First, Israel could not be 100% sure that such a plan would work. Secondly, the attack on Liberty was carried out on June 8, when the Egyptian army was already routed for the most part, and the Israeli armed forces were in Egypt. An inconsistent U.S. Air Force strike on Egypt could harm the Jews themselves. Well, and most importantly - why provoke a US strike on Egypt that has already been defeated in this way? This does not give any military advantage (Egypt was already practically defeated), and after the disclosure it could go sideways to Israel itself.
                        Secondly, Israeli boats that fired torpedoes marched under the Israeli flag. Also, according to the testimony of one eyewitness (crew member of the ship) on the attacking aircraft were the identification marks of the Israeli Air Force. Agree, some kind of strange provocation.
                        By the way, the information that Lyndon Johnson allegedly gave the order for a nuclear attack in Cairo also does not hold water. The United States would hardly have responded with a nuclear strike.

                        Sanctions? Is that all? In this case, an armed invasion would have begun; the United States has never been complex in these matters.

                        A bunch of times the United States did not start a full-scale war after such incidents. For example, during the confrontation with Iran at the end of the Iran-Iraq war, the United States was limited only to local military operations against Iran’s oil rigs. Or a very recent story with US missile bases in Iraq. I also recall that in 1967, the United States was already conducting a very unpopular Vietnam war among its own population, and it was not in their interests to get involved in yet another massacre.

                        Findings? Or was it really a mistake and in the USA they knew about it

                        This was not a mistake. There are a lot of testimonies to this, from radio talks between Jewish pilots and command to flights over the ship that took place within 8 hours. Moreover, the Liberty team calmly reacted to Israeli planes during these flights, which would be strange to expect from the command of an enemy ship, right?

                        or it was a planned provocation, in order to get a pretext for the US attack on Egypt

                        See above.

                        Now, let's consider the version with the attack on Liberty with the goal of destroying the reconnaissance vessel itself:

                        - Firstly, the fact that the attack on Liberty was connected not with Egypt, but with Syria, says the fact that it was committed on June 8, when Egypt was already practically defeated. But the land operation against Syria and the planned capture of the Golan Heights was scheduled for June 9th.

                        - In 1967, the Americans were not yet full-fledged allies of Israel. In particular, the US was officially neutral in the conflict and openly opposed plans to attack Syria. Accordingly, Israel could not fully trust the Americans.

                        - Liberty monitored both sides of the Arab-Israeli conflict. The Israeli command could proceed from two considerations. First, Liberty could purposefully transmit information about Israeli preparations for the invasion of Syria (the capture of the Golan) by the Syrians. The second - “Liberty” itself did not pass on the information received, but it could be intercepted either by the Arabs themselves, or the USSR. In both cases, the ship posed a threat to Israel’s tactical military plans for Syria.

                        In other words, the attack on Liberty was not a strategic plan to draw the United States into the war, but a tactical move to ensure maximum secrecy of its actions against Syria.

                        As for the US reaction to the Liberty incident, there is nothing strange about this. Even knowing the deliberate nature of the attack by Israel, the US leadership sensibly reasoned that it was foolish to ruin relations with a country that was a serious counterbalance to the spread of pro-Soviet sentiment in the Middle East. As a result, they were indignant for the proforma. carried out investigations, threatened with a finger to Israel, that one for pro forma got a little stiff, paid compensation to the victims and the case was hushed up.
                      7. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                        Dart2027 April 25 2020 22: 26
                        +1
                        Quote: Cyril
                        But I didn’t talk about the war. I talked about immediate clashes.

                        There were separate clashes, only the Soviet troops mostly tried not to get involved in the database.

                        Quote: Cyril
                        that because of this one case it’s foolish to spoil relations with a country that was a serious counterbalance to the spread of pro-Soviet sentiments in the Middle East

                        Quote: Cyril
                        In particular, the US was officially neutral in the conflict and openly opposed plans to attack Syria. Accordingly, Israel could not fully trust the Americans.

                        You already decide, huh? First you say that the United States needed an alliance with Israel, so much so that he did not give a damn about the attack on his ship, then that he was almost for the Syrians.
                        If Israel just wanted to take the Liberty away from its shores, in a pinch it was enough to shoot its antennas several times, and without killing a single sailor, order them to get out. And that’s all. But instead, a real slaughter is being arranged.

                        Quote: Cyril
                        at the end of the Iran-Iraq war

                        So Iraq fought with Iran for US money. What else was left for them, especially since here it was certainly a mistake.
                      8. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) April 26 2020 11: 56
                        0
                        First you say that the United States needed an alliance with Israel, so much so that he did not give a damn about the attack on his ship, then that he was almost for the Syrians.

                        You see, the allied relations between the United States and Israel did not necessarily mean that the Americans liked the idea of ​​attacking Syria. That is why the Americans specifically in this war were neutral. And after it, the United States, like other members of the UN Security Council, supported resolution 242. political relations - they are somewhat more complicated than you think.

                        If Israel just wanted to take the Liberty away from its shores, in a pinch it was enough to shoot its antennas several times, and without killing a single sailor, order them to get out. And that’s all. But instead, a real slaughter is being arranged.

                        Having fired several times at the antennas, you do not guarantee 100 percent radio silence of the reconnaissance ship. If only because do not damage the internal equipment and keep the specialists of this ship alive.

                        So Iraq fought with Iran for US money.

                        Who cares? Were there military incidents between Iran and the US? There were. Did the USA not start a full-fledged war against Iran? Not unleashed. What I’m talking about is that the USA doesn’t always, far from always take such a step.
      2. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 15: 48
        -1
        That is, with the fact that the Israeli Air Force was unable to sink a practically unarmed ship with a normal crew, do you argue?

        By the way, drowning an American ship to Israel was not necessary. The goal was to prevent the transmission (or interception) of intelligence received by this ship. That is why Jewish pilots first of all killed all outdoor telecommunications equipment, thereby silencing Liberty on the air. They coped with this task perfectly.
        1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
          Dart2027 April 24 2020 16: 53
          0
          Quote: Cyril
          it was not necessary for Israel to sink an American ship

          And so he was attacked by torpedoes?
        2. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 18: 30
          0
          The use of torpedoes does not necessarily imply that the ship will certainly go to the bottom - with the help of torpedoes, you can simply temporarily take the ship out of working condition or make it generally unsuitable for further use. The goal was to bring Liberty out of working condition - and the Israeli military coped with this task with a bang.
        3. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
          Dart2027 April 25 2020 08: 07
          +1
          Quote: Cyril
          The use of torpedoes does not necessarily imply that the ship will certainly go to the bottom

          In fact, a torpedo is the most dangerous weapon, because it does damage below the waterline, which leads to flooding.
          Well, in order to force the ship to leave, and it was not necessary to shoot, it was enough to threaten. If he had a choice, the captain would hardly climb under torpedoes and shells.
        4. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) April 25 2020 10: 30
          0
          In fact, a torpedo is the most dangerous weapon, because it does damage below the waterline, which leads to flooding.

          Not always. And there are many examples of this, including among other countries.

          Well, in order to force the ship to leave and shoot it was not necessary, it was enough to threaten. If he had a choice, the captain would hardly climb under torpedoes and shells.

          The captain of the reconnaissance vessel is a sworn serviceman. Threats may simply not work, and there was no legal basis for Israel to threaten a ship of the neutral side that did not participate in the hostilities. But to deal with this problem was necessary quickly.
        5. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
          Dart2027 April 25 2020 22: 10
          0
          Quote: Cyril
          Not always.

          Not always. But with a very high probability, so frightening with a torpedo attack is already too much.

          Quote: Cyril
          Threats may simply not work

          Captain reconnaissance vessel trample against warships and aircraft? This is not courage, but stupidity.

          Quote: Cyril
          In addition, Israel had no legal reason to threaten a ship of the neutral side that did not participate in the hostilities.

          And to attack, then there were grounds? It’s strange.
        6. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) April 26 2020 12: 01
          -1
          Captain reconnaissance vessel trample against warships and aircraft? This is not courage, but stupidity.

          No, he just can go beyond their radius of action and continue his work. What Israel did not need.

          And to attack, then there were grounds? It’s strange.

          Did not have. But, paradoxically, an attack incident would be easier to gloss over than a threat. Because the attack can be presented as a fatal mistake - they say, excuse me, missed. But you will not present a threat as an error.
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 13: 45
    0
    Quote: Dart2027
    Quote: Cyril
    American destroyer Liberty

    USS Liberty (AGTR-5) ("Liberty") - a ship of electronic intelligence of the US Navy. That is, actually not intended for battle. And, by the way, they could not sink it.

    Quote: Cyril
    and not bad so the USSR Air Force

    - having shot down only 4 aircraft, for which it was necessary to use almost all the reconnaissance and assemble a special detachment.

    Not four, but five. This time. In the battle from the USSR, 24 MiGs from Israel took part - 12 Phantoms and Mirages. So, the numerical advantage was on the side of the Soviet pilots. These are two. And finally the last. The battle lasted six minutes, after which the enemy, quoting M. Zhirokhov's “Wings of Retribution” from memory:

    After ten minutes, the Soviet pilots began to randomly leave the battle. The Israelis in the heat of battle began to pursue them. But a command was heard from the ground: "To all cars return to their bases."

    The only discrepancy between Israeli and Soviet sources about this fight is the time during which it lasted. And after this "beating of infants" 110 regiment was recalled to the USSR, and the Arabs agreed to a truce, which lasted until 06.10.1073/XNUMX/XNUMX.
    Major General Dolnikov, who ordered the interception, did not listen to Hosni Mubarak, who was at that moment next to him on the control tower. The future Egyptian president, very sincerely and strongly advised not to fly airplanes against Jewish pilots. Brother Ivanushka did not obey ....)
    1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
      Dart2027 April 23 2020 14: 38
      +1
      Quote: Rogue1812
      Not four, but five. This time.

      The fifth was not shot down, but hit and calmly sat on the airfield.

      Quote: Rogue1812
      24 MiGs from Israel took part - 12 Phantoms and Mirages.

      12 Mirages and 4 Phantoms, and one MiG link did not participate at all and there were 20 of them.

      Quote: Rogue1812
      The only discrepancy between Israeli and Soviet sources about this fight is the time during which it lasted.

      Well, the fact that the Soviet pilots left the battle, having received an order.

      Quote: Rogue1812
      Major General Dolnikov, who ordered the interception, did not listen to Hosni Mubarak, who was at that moment next to him on the control tower. The future Egyptian president, very sincerely and strongly advised not to fly airplanes against Jewish pilots.

      Oh really? And before that, he also did not advise this? For example, when did the same MiGs hit an Israeli attack aircraft?
      1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 15: 03
        0
        Quote: Dart2027
        Quote: Rogue1812
        Not four, but five. This time.

        The fifth was not shot down, but hit and calmly sat on the airfield.

        Quote: Rogue1812
        24 MiGs from Israel took part - 12 Phantoms and Mirages.

        12 Mirages and 4 Phantoms, and one MiG link did not participate at all and there were 20 of them.

        Quote: Rogue1812
        The only discrepancy between Israeli and Soviet sources about this fight is the time during which it lasted.

        Well, the fact that the Soviet pilots left the battle, having received an order.

        Quote: Rogue1812
        Major General Dolnikov, who ordered the interception, did not listen to Hosni Mubarak, who was at that moment next to him on the control tower. The future Egyptian president, very sincerely and strongly advised not to fly airplanes against Jewish pilots.

        Oh really? And before that, he also did not advise this? For example, when did the same MiGs hit an Israeli attack aircraft?

        Killed - it’s said a lot. Hit, so more precisely. The Israelites then left the battle. But after this incident, at the command level, it was decided to teach the master class to Soviet colleagues. Moreover, I will inform you, the Israelis have never been of a high opinion about the level of the Soviet counterparts. Noting the courage and excitement in the battle, the inability to fight in the conditions of the BV, constraint on instructions, lack of initiative were among the shortcomings. As operation Rimon has shown. About the downed fifth plane. This is the data of Anwar Sadat, who ridiculed (scoundrel, it’s true, no jokes. After all that he received for free from the USSR) Soviet pilots in front of the Israelis in Jerusalem, spoke about the fifth plane shot down. Hosni Mubarak later confirmed the same data. And just as the Arab pilots rejoiced over the Soviet defeat .... Arabs, they are such Arabs. For example, I can’t understand in any way that this is part of the Russians so harnesses for the Arabs. In the language of the hero of the film Danelia: "They will surrender you at the first jump.")
        1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
          Dart2027 April 23 2020 15: 34
          +1
          Quote: Rogue1812
          stiffness in instructions, lack of initiative. As operation Rimon has shown

          What did she show? A group of MiGs was ambushed and, having suffered losses, left the battlefield. Well, what have the instructions and initiative to do with it?

          Quote: Rogue1812
          This is data from Anwar Sadat.

          The fact that he was hit is a fact, but about the shot down - I came across only four shot down and one hit.

          Quote: Rogue1812
          Killed - it’s said a lot. Hit, so more precisely.

          And hurt and eat out.

          Quote: Rogue1812
          They will surrender you at the first jump

          At first, the USSR supported Israel, but it chose to go over to the US side.
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) April 23 2020 16: 08
            0
            At first, the USSR supported Israel, but it chose to go over to the US side.

            Israel chose not to take the side of the United States, but its side. Just from the 60s to the present, their interests for the most part coincide. Israel’s independence in terms of pursuing its policy is evidenced even by the fact that between it and the United States very often disagreements arise over policies regarding the Palestinian Authority and Israel’s cooperation with China. To the extent that some of the US presidents even imposed sanctions against Israel.

            By the way, Israel, for example, did not support the sanctions of Western countries against Russia. As far as I know, even recognizes Crimea as Russian. At least he does not object actively to this.
            1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 23 2020 18: 40
              +2
              Quote: Cyril
              Israel chose not to take the side of the United States, but its side. Just from the 60s to the present, their interests for the most part coincide.

              And what does that change? The fact is that the USSR, unwittingly, had to look for other allies.

              Quote: Cyril
              To the extent that some of the US presidents even imposed sanctions against Israel.

              While? For example, I have always been highly doubtful that the hijacking of boats from France to Israel was carried out without coordination with the head of France.
            2. Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 23 2020 21: 29
              -2
              Quote: Dart2027
              The fact is that the USSR, unwittingly, had to look for other allies.

              It is difficult to imagine the alliance of Israel with a country in which the fight against rootless cosmopolitanism is in full swing and the work of doctors is developing.
            3. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 23 2020 21: 55
              0
              Quote: Oleg Rambover
              ... in which the fight against rootless cosmopolitanism is in full swing and the business of doctors is developing.

              Which began just after it became clear that Israel would be an ally of the United States. And there were prerequisites, and among the citizens of the USSR themselves.

              In 1948, at a reception on the occasion of the 31st anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution given by Molotov to foreign diplomats accredited in Moscow, Zhemchuzhina demonstratively retired from the Israeli ambassador Golda Meir and told her in Yiddish (which Zhemchuzhina knew well): “I am a Jewish daughter "

              Well, and what was the reaction to such a fortune? I can hardly imagine the wife of a senior Israeli diplomat.
            4. Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 23 2020 22: 55
              -2
              Quote: Dart2027
              Which began just after it became clear that Israel would be an ally of the United States. Yes, and there were prerequisites, and among the citizens of the USSR

              The fight against cosmopolitanism began even before the creation of the Jewish state. And actually, why should Soviet citizens of Jewish nationality be responsible for the failures in foreign policy?

              Quote: Dart2027
              Well, and what was the reaction to such a fortune? I can hardly imagine the wife of a senior Israeli diplomat.

              Maybe I don’t understand something, but what the Pearl said so terrible?
            5. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 24 2020 15: 19
              +1
              Quote: Oleg Rambover
              The fight against cosmopolitanism

              In fact, the citizen of his country should be one, and all talk about "world citizenship" begins only when you need to shove your interests under this brand.

              Quote: Oleg Rambover
              ... but what so terrible the Pearl said

              The wife of a senior official publicly declares that she belongs to another state. Really what?

              Quote: Oleg Rambover
              ... why Soviet citizens of Jewish nationality ...

              The reason, or background, in the "Jewish mentality." Having no state of their own, over the centuries, Jews have developed a very highly developed national consciousness and ability to live in other countries without assimilating, thanks to which, in fact, they have survived as a people. If it were not so, then now they would simply not exist. And now the USSR begins to have problems with Israel and the question arises: "But this comrade, who is he for? For his compatriots or for us?" This, incidentally, applies to the Pearl. Well, and since the world was balancing on the brink of TMV, the reaction was military-harsh.
              By the way, in the USA all citizens of Japanese descent were kept in the camps for approximately the same reasons ("Who knows, who is he for?"), So everything in the USSR was part of that era.
            6. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 16: 04
              -1
              By the way, in the USA all citizens of Japanese descent were kept in camps for approximately the same reasons ("Who knows who he is for?"), So everything in the USSR was part of that era.

              The only problem is that Japan during the Second World War really fought directly with the USA, therefore American Japanese were kept in camps (by the way, in very, very good conditions). Moreover, it was Japan that attacked the United States and unleashed a war in the Pacific Ocean. But the USSR and Israel did not enter into any open confrontation, Israel did not attack the USSR. Therefore, repression against Soviet Jews (by the way, which began long before Israel began to cooperate openly with the United States) is precisely the whim of the Soviet leadership.
            7. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 24 2020 16: 55
              -1
              Quote: Cyril
              by the way, which began long before Israel began to openly cooperate with the United States

              And here is the question. At that time there were so many purges that it was already impossible to understand whether this was the national motive.
            8. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 19: 17
              0
              At that time there were so many purges that it was already impossible to understand whether this was the national motive.

              During the Great Patriotic War and after it, there was a practice of limiting the rewarding of Jewish soldiers. In non-Nazi territories, rumors were circulating that Jews were “fighting on the Tashkent front,” that is, they were sitting in the rear, and there were practically none at the front line. Relatives of Jewish front-line soldiers were often subjected to insults and threats. And it would be possible to blame all this on everyday anti-Semitism and on the relic of tsarism among the older generation, but:

              The head of the Main Political Administration of the Red Army, Colonel General Shcherbakov, issued a directive in early 1943: "Reward representatives of all nationalities, but Jews - on a limited basis."

              In 1943-1944 A series of closed instructions were issued, in accordance with which the regulation of the percentage of representatives of different nationalities in leadership positions began. The key role in this regard was played by the expanded meeting convened by Stalin in the fall of 1944, in the opening address at which Stalin himself called for a “more cautious" appointment of the Jews; Georgy Malenkov, who spoke after that, for his part called for “vigilance” with regard to Jewish cadres; Following the meeting, a directive letter was drawn up, signed by Malenkov (the so-called “Malenkovsky Circular"), listing the posts to which Jews should not be appointed. At the same time, restrictions were placed on the admission of Jews to universities.

              After the intelligence officer Miriam Fridman refused to sign up as a Latvian instead of a Jew, she was not only not awarded the title of Hero of the USSR to which she was represented, but also threatened with murder in the political department of the division.

              Further, from 1946 (that is, before the creation of Israel and the more so when it changed its foreign policy), pressure began on the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, which ended in its defeat in 1948.

              Since the fall of 1946, a course has been taken to severely restrict Judaism. In particular, the Council for Religious Cults was instructed to drastically limit Jewish charity (tsedaka), launch a struggle against such “customs implying nationalist sentiments” as baking matzoh, ritual slaughter of cattle and poultry, and liquidate Jewish funeral services.

              The Einikite newspaper and the publishing house Der Emes (Pravda) were also closed, at that time the last Jewish newspaper and the last Jewish publishing house in the country. At the same time, arrests began in the leadership of the Jewish Autonomous Region, Jewish writers' unions were dissolved, and 4 remaining Jewish high schools with Yiddish education were closed (in Chernivtsi, Vilnius, Kaunas, and Birobidzhan, 1948). On December 1, 1949, the Moscow State Jewish Theater was closed [35], and the last remaining Jewish theaters were closed - BelGOSET in Minsk and Kiev GOSET in Chernivtsi (1949-1950).

              There, in short, there is still a lot of evidence that the anti-Jewish campaign was launched by the state in the 40s and early 50s. Of course, she was ranked in the slogans of "the struggle against cosmopolitanism" and "Zionism." It is also obvious that state anti-Semitism in the USSR is not a match for that in the Third Reich. However, a fact is a fact - during this period the USSR did pursue an anti-Semitic policy.
            9. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 25 2020 08: 27
              +1
              About 170 Jews received the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, which puts them in 4th place after the Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians. They had the fourth place among all the peoples of the USSR in the number of military awards after the Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians. Moreover, their number on the territory of the USSR and, consequently, the percentage ratio was not in fourth place.
              Well, nothing about censorship can be said about the "regulation of the percentage of representatives of different nationalities in leading posts", "the regulation of awards", as well as about the national policy of the USSR. Only this was caused by a "brilliant" national policy, when, for example, at the expense of the Russians, the "national outskirts" developed in every way, and then the Russians were brought there as normal labor.
            10. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 25 2020 10: 06
              0
              About 170 Jews received the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, which puts them in 4th place after the Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians.

              Only now, many received this title after the war with a delay of decades, and about 50 people did not receive it at all, despite repeated and documented submissions to the award. Plus, a significant proportion of Jews awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union had Slavic nationality in their passports.

              Moreover, their number on the territory of the USSR and, consequently, the percentage ratio was not in fourth place.

              About how, that is, an assessment of military achievements is given on the basis of a percentage quota?

              nothing censorship can be said.

              Absolutely, there are no excuses for these facts. But what side do you associate them with this?

              Only this was caused by a "brilliant" national policy, when, for example, at the expense of the Russians, the "national outskirts" developed in every way, and then the Russians were brought there as normal labor.
            11. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 25 2020 21: 59
              +1
              Quote: Cyril
              based on percentage quota

              Are they all supermen? Relatively speaking, in any group of people there will be approximately the same ratio, as those who can be considered heroes, and vice versa. So, judging by the number of awards, they were not particularly pinched.

              Quote: Cyril
              But what side do you associate them with this?

              And the fact that if you start to understand, then the Russians got just as much, so as I already wrote

              Quote: Dart2027
              At that time there were so many purges that it was already impossible to understand whether this was the national motive.
            12. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 26 2020 12: 27
              -1
              Are they all supermen? Relatively speaking, in any group of people there will be approximately the same ratio, as those who can be considered heroes, and vice versa.

              Where did you read it? There are studies that prove that the percentage of people capable of heroism in emergency situations is subject to some strict laws?

              And the fact that if you start to understand, then the Russians got just as much, so as I already wrote

              Russians deported? Russians were denied national identity and culture, their language was banned? Hebrew was forbidden, Jewish theaters and schools, writers' unions were closed.
            13. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 26 2020 18: 27
              +1
              Quote: Cyril
              That is why the Americans specifically in this war were neutral.

              If neutral, then again it is not clear why quarrel with them?

              Quote: Cyril
              you do not guarantee 100 percent radio silence of the reconnaissance ship

              Continuation of the order to get out. You have not read?

              Quote: Cyril
              What's the difference?

              Firstly, the fact that it was clearly an error there, and secondly, then they would have to curtail the draft war between Iraq and Iran. That is, if this were not so, then the reaction would be different. Or do you claim that Israel fought with Syria for US money?

              Quote: Cyril
              he can simply go beyond their radius of action and continue his work

              And after the attack one reconnaissance ship, another reconnaissance ship may come, already guarded by a pair of destroyers and five or six frigates.

              Quote: Cyril
              And here is the threat

              You can hush up, generally without official statements.

              Quote: Cyril
              There are studies that prove that

              Are all people one species, or are you a fan of higher race theory?

              Quote: Cyril
              Russians deported? Russians were denied national identity and culture, their language was banned?

              Imagine - it was. For example, the territory of present Chechnya is the merit of the Bolsheviks, which they don’t like to remember now, the policy of Ukrainization, the creation of Belarus.
            14. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 26 2020 21: 00
              0
              If neutral, then again it is not clear why quarrel with them?

              To the Israelites? And they did not want to quarrel with the United States, but they had a more acute problem at stake - the war with the Arabs. In fact, Israel held a circular defense, and it was necessary to ensure the absolute secrecy of its operations, because the only chance it had to survive was in the absolute surprise of a preventive strike against the Arabs.

              So that you understand what it is about, here's a brief description of the US position before the Six Day War:

              In this situation, the American president (then Johnson held this post) announced his position: no help to the Israeli economy in distress; no threats to the Arabs - in order to prevent hostilities; in case the Arab countries attack Israel - no help to Israel. At the same time, he appeals to the Israeli government with a request not to begin any military operations - in order to give him, the president, the opportunity to resolve the conflict through diplomatic means. At the same time, Presidential Adviser on Security Affairs George Bundy publicly states that "America is neutral in thought, word and deed."

              Egypt and Syria felt quite confident. The United States declared neutrality, and the Soviet Union supplies them with its weapons and promises full support. Jordan also feels no less confident with the armaments and support from the United States.

              Against this background, Israel, on the contrary, was losing outside support: its largest partner, the United States, refused to sell weapons to the Jewish state. Washington made this decision because of the participation of Israel in the second Arab-Israeli war in 1956, which was called the Suez Crisis.

              As I said before, political relations are more complex than you imagine.

              Firstly, the fact that it was clearly an error there, and secondly, then they would have to curtail the draft war between Iraq and Iran.

              What kind of mistake are you talking about? About the demolition of an American frigate in a mine? Why then did the Americans launch Operation Mantis?

              That is, if this were not so, then the reaction would be different.

              Good. Another example is Iran’s recent missile attack on US bases. This is clearly not a mistake, right? So. And nothing, the United States again did not start a war.

              And after the attack one reconnaissance ship, another reconnaissance ship may come, already guarded by a pair of destroyers and five or six frigates.

              And this takes time - there were no other US reconnaissance ships at that time in that area. And Israel needed to ensure the radio silence of the Americans only for 1-2 days.

              And here is another confirmation that Israel did not really trust the Americans at that time and ensured the maximum secrecy of its operations:

              Preparations for the sudden Israeli air strike were carried out in complete secrecy. On the day of the war, in the early morning, Israeli intelligence agents made their way to the roof of the US Embassy in Tel Aviv and disabled the tracking antenna installed there to prevent the United States from detecting Israeli aircraft. The Israeli pilots themselves learned about the upcoming operation only 5 hours before the air strike.

              They did the same with Liberty. But due to the fact that you can’t sneak into the reconnaissance ship unnoticed, they simply shot him.

              You can hush up, generally without official statements.

              But Liberty would have remained safe and sound, and Israel could not risk secrecy.

              Are all people one species, or are you a fan of higher race theory?

              Again your substitution of theses. Firstly, belonging to one species does not negate intraspecific differences. For example, among the Dutch, lactose intolerance is found in 1%, and among American Indians - 100%. Does this make the Dutch a "higher race"? No, this is just a physiological difference. Secondly, heroism depends not only on the biological characteristics of an individual’s brain, but also on upbringing, social status, current situation, degree of national self-awareness, and other non-biological factors. Third, the propensity for heroism
              and the ability to fight does not make its owner higher than the one who does not have such a tendency. Fourth, the same people at different times and in different situations can show a different degree of heroism. For example, in World War I, the French fought very bravely and zealously, and in World War II they surrendered without much resistance. Does this mean that the French are a "lower race"? No.

              As is the case with politics, the behavior of a person and entire nations is a more complex thing than you think. Therefore, to calculate the degree of heroism and its prevalence among a certain people only on the basis of its size is an extreme simplification and naivety.

              Imagine - it was. For example, the territory of present Chechnya is the merit of the Bolsheviks, which they don’t like to remember now, the policy of Ukrainization, the creation of Belarus.

              On the territory of Chechnya in Soviet times, the Russian language was banned, schools and cultural institutions were closed for Russian speakers? During the "Ukrainization" in Soviet times, the Russian language was banned on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR, closed Russian schools and cultural institutions? In Soviet times, the Russian language was banned in the BSSR, were Russian schools and cultural institutions closed?
            15. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 27 2020 19: 52
              +2
              Quote: Cyril
              And they did not want to quarrel with the United States

              And why attacked a USS? Original.

              Quote: Cyril
              What kind of mistake are you talking about?

              When the Iraqi pilot confused the American frigate with the Iranian one and hit him with two missiles.

              Quote: Cyril
              Iran missile attack on US bases

              Which was a response to the US attack on the Iranian military. And now Iran is looming over Iran, and then there was no one behind Israel?

              Quote: Cyril
              it's extreme simplification and naivety

              And what is not naivety? There is a fact that not the largest group is one of the most awarded. And stories about someone specifically infringed on rewards are as old as the world.

              Quote: Cyril
              On the territory of Chechnya in Soviet times

              In tsarist times, Cossacks lived on part of the territory of modern Chechnya. What began to explain to them?

              Quote: Cyril
              During the "Ukrainization" in Soviet times

              People were forcibly converted into never-existent peoples, forced to learn foreign languages. Well, they provided a standard of living in the "fraternal republics" at the expense of the Russians.
            16. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) April 27 2020 20: 46
              -2
              And why attacked a USS? Original.

              Again. Israel had a choice:

              - try to negotiate with the United States through diplomatic means, so that they take their reconnaissance ship out of the combat zone. It did not give any guarantees, besides it took time, and Israel did not have time.

              - attack the ship and knock it out. This is risky in terms of exacerbating relations with the United States, but quickly and the result is guaranteed.

              Israel in an emergency just chose the most reliable and fastest option. And then the incident was hushed up, because further exacerbation was not beneficial to either the United States or Israel.

              When an Iraqi pilot confused an American frigate with an Iranian one and hit him with two missiles.

              Oh my god. I did not tell you about this, but about the armed clashes between Iran and the United States during the Iran-Iraq war.

              Which was a response to the US attack on the Iranian military.

              And, that is, the Americans said - "ok, right, we were the first to start, so we won’t attack"?)) It's funny.

              And now Iran is looming over Iran, and then there was no one behind Israel?

              Seriously? Did China take it right and harness for Iran?

              And what is not naivety?

              - to understand that human behavior is a complicated thing.

              There is a fact that not the largest group is one of the most awarded.

              - and there are also facts of the refusal of awards after repeated submissions, there are facts of refusal of the award if the reward is not willing to change the nationality from Jewish to any other, there are facts of directive directives to limit the rewarding of Jews.

              In tsarist times, Cossacks lived on part of the territory of modern Chechnya. What became of them - to explain?

              The leadership of the USSR repressed the Cossacks on a national basis?

              People were forcibly converted into never-existent peoples, forced to learn foreign languages.

              What kind of peoples "never existed"? Bring. Please, an example of how Russian in the USSR forced learn foreign languages.

              Well, they provided a standard of living in the "fraternal republics" at the expense of the Russians.

              At the expense of the Russians - how is it? Something was taken from the Russians and given to the "fraternal peoples"? Like what?
            17. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 28 2020 20: 15
              +2
              Quote: Cyril
              Again.

              Why did Israel decide that the US would "wipe out" rather than accept the principle?

              Quote: Cyril
              I did not tell you about this, but about the armed clashes between Iran and the United States during the Iran-Iraq war.

              So the Americans have already fought with Iran through Iraq.

              Quote: Cyril
              Ah, that is, the Americans said

              In almost the same way - they have a war going on, only the USA cannot afford to start a full-fledged invasion.

              Quote: Cyril
              That's right, so took China

              And he will have no choice. He needs oil and lose her death alike.

              Quote: Cyril
              The leadership of the USSR repressed the Cossacks

              Didn't you know? For the Bolsheviks, this word acted like a red rag on a bull. Only in the 30s they stopped.

              Quote: Cyril
              What kind of peoples "never existed"?

              Ukrainians and Belarusians. Thanks to grandfather Lenin for his ...

              Quote: Cyril
              At the expense of the Russians - how is it?

              And where did the subsidies for supporting life in some Estonia come from? Or Turkmenistan?
            18. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) 2 May 2020 15: 03
              -1
              Why did Israel decide that the US would "wipe out" rather than accept the principle?

              Yes, for a bunch of reasons. Firstly, because in 1967 the Americans were already bogged down in the Vietnam War, they didn’t need another war. Secondly, because the Americans nevertheless tended to a full-fledged alliance with Israel - and just after the Six Day War, this interaction gained full strength.

              So the Americans have already fought with Iran through Iraq.

              AND? Did this stop them from invading Iran?

              In almost the same way - they have a war going on, only the USA cannot afford to start a full-fledged invasion.

              Similar to what?

              Didn't you know? For the Bolsheviks, this word acted like a red rag on a bull. Only in the 30s they stopped.

              Right. Only these repressions were not ethnic - they were class.

              Ukrainians and Belarusians.

              Oh how. How is it?

              And where did the subsidies for supporting life in some Estonia come from? Or Turkmenistan?

              Estonia itself did not call on the Soviets; they themselves came. And since they came themselves, they should subsidize, naturally.
            19. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 2 May 2020 21: 12
              +2
              Quote: Cyril
              Americans are already bogged down in the Vietnam War

              Firstly, Vietnam is the jungle, which makes it extremely difficult to maintain a database, and in Israel there is nothing like it, and its territory is extremely small. Secondly, the USSR and China stood behind Vietnam, without whose support it would merge very quickly.

              Quote: Cyril
              Similar to what?

              The previous one, about Iraq. Iran is a large country, and its capture will require serious forces.

              Quote: Cyril
              How is it?

              Since there were none.

              Quote: Cyril
              Estonia Advice is not called

              Why, then they were not a sucker.

              Quote: Cyril
              then they should subsidize, of course

              That is, the fact that all the republics subsidized at the expense of the Russians, you confirm?
            20. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) 2 May 2020 21: 43
              -1
              Firstly, Vietnam is the jungle, which makes it extremely difficult to maintain a database, and in Israel there is nothing like it, and its territory is extremely small. Secondly, the USSR and China stood behind Vietnam, without whose support it would merge very quickly.

              It is not a matter of how hard it would be for the Americans to wage war against Israel. The fact is that the very fact of another war (even if victorious and fast), at that time would be very, very, very unpopular among the American public. Moreover, it would be okay against some pro-Soviet countries - and here against Israel, which was not pro-Soviet.

              Well, and, as I have already said, the Americans sensibly reasoned that it was better to cooperate with Israel, rather than to fight, because of all the Middle Eastern countries representing real military force, Israel was closest to the Americans in terms of their political and economic structure.

              Iran is a large country and its capture will require serious forces.

              Would not require. Iran, which even barely pulled the war with Iraq, could not stand against the American attack. And capture it was not necessary.

              Since there were none.

              Is this your opinion as a professional ethnologist?

              Why, then they were not a sucker.

              An undisguised military threat and the deployment of troops whom you want will make it accommodating. Read about how the Baltic countries were annexed.

              That is, the fact that all republics were subsidized at the expense of the Russians, do you confirm?

              The fact of subsidies - I confirm that "at the expense of the Russians" - no.
            21. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 3 May 2020 17: 07
              +2
              Quote: Cyril
              The fact is that the very fact of another war (even if victorious and fast), at that time would be very, very, very unpopular among the American public.

              Just a small and victorious war was needed. Later, a target was found for her (Grenada).

              Quote: Cyril
              And capture it was not necessary.

              And how would he be controlled then?

              Quote: Cyril
              It is your opinion

              This is a historical fact - before the USSR they were not.

              Quote: Cyril
              Read

              Read. And, by the way, this does not negate the fact that for some reason they began to live better than the RSFSR.

              Quote: Cyril
              that "at the expense of the Russians" - no

              And for whom then?
            22. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) 3 May 2020 18: 19
              -2
              Just a small and victorious war was needed. Later, they found a target for her.

              The key word is later. But not during the Vietnam War.

              And how would he be controlled then?

              Did the Americans have such goals? It is possible to force a country to fulfill its requirements without taking it under full control.

              This is a historical fact - before the USSR they were not

              What scientific studies confirm this alleged fact? The generally accepted view of Russian ethnology on the ethnogenesis of Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians says that all three peoples in their present form were formed in the 15-16 centuries, standing out from the ancient Russian community.

              Was reading.

              Well then, you should know how and as a result of which Estonia and other Baltic republics were annexed to the USSR.

              And, by the way, this does not negate the fact that for some reason they began to live better than the RSFSR.

              Maybe because the local population worked better?

              And for whom then?

              At the expense of the entire Union, let me remind you that the Russians there, although the nation was predominant in number, were far from the only one.
            23. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 4 May 2020 11: 55
              +2
              Quote: Cyril
              But not during the Vietnam War.

              Then there was simply no reason, but there was a need.

              Quote: Cyril
              You can force the country to fulfill its requirements

              In Europe, yes, but Arabs, Persians, Negroes, etc. must be fully controlled, or nothing will work except chaos.

              Quote: Cyril
              What scientific studies confirm this alleged fact?

              Very simple - they simply did not exist. They appeared on the world map in the USSR. And all kinds of genesis, if desired, will be announced by each large region as a separate people, and strictly scientific.

              Quote: Cyril
              the local population worked better

              Quote: Cyril
              At the expense of the entire Union

              Truth? And why is he not working very well now? Yes, and about the subsidies in the USSR for a long time, everything was understood.

              Quote: Cyril
              Estonia and other Baltic republics were annexed to the USSR

              - so as not to be attached to Hitler. Fact - the Estonian army entered the USSR Armed Forces in full force.
  • Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 25 2020 14: 26
    -1
    Quote: Dart2027
    In fact, the citizen of his country should be one, and all talk about "world citizenship" begins only when you need to shove your interests under this brand.

    I didn’t understand you very much, you want to say that all the Jews were not loyal to the USSR? Who specifically led such conversations? And you did not answer why the citizens of the USSR should have been responsible for foreign policy failures?

    Quote: Dart2027
    The wife of a senior official publicly declares that she belongs to another state. Really what?

    She said she was Jewish and not a citizen of Israel. Anyway, I don’t understand what was so terrible she said.

    Quote: Dart2027
    The reason, or background, in the "Jewish mentality." Without their own state, over the centuries, Jews have developed a very highly developed national consciousness and the ability to live in other countries, not assimilating, thanks to which, in fact, they have survived as a people. If it were not so, then now they would simply not exist. And now the USSR begins to have problems with Israel and the question arises: "But this comrade, who is he for? For his compatriots or for us?

    Do you not understand that now the Nazi idea is preaching, that there are some wrong nations that need to be persecuted only because they were born of a certain nationality? Collective punishment methods were criminal then. If someone is guilty of something before the law, a specific person should be punished, not the family, and even more so the people.

    Quote: Dart2027
    By the way, in the USA all citizens of Japanese descent were kept in the camps for approximately the same reasons ("Who knows, who is he for?"), So everything in the USSR was part of that era.

    You can find examples and closer, read the "Polish repression line 37-38" or the eviction of the peoples of the Caucasus. Even the Nazis did this before the war, the Jews were not immediately sent to the camps, at first they simply deprived them of their work. And does this somehow justify all this?
  • Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 12: 04
    -1
    While? For example, I have always been highly doubtful that the hijacking of boats from France to Israel was carried out without coordination with the head of France.

    Yes, and at that time, and even now.
    You can doubt anything, but the fact is a fact, and your speculation is only your speculation.
  • Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
    Dart2027 April 24 2020 15: 04
    0
    Quote: Cyril
    but fact is fact

    With the fact that the boats got to Israel, no one argues.
  • Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 15: 52
    -1
    With the fact that the boats got to Israel, no one argues.

    And then why are you talking about this?
  • Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
    Dart2027 April 24 2020 17: 00
    -1
    It is doubtful that they were seized and stolen like this, without prior agreement. Although if they were, then we are unlikely to find out.
  • Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 22: 50
    0
    It is doubtful that they were seized and stolen like this, without prior agreement.

    And what is the logic of such alleged arrangements?
  • Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
    Dart2027 April 25 2020 08: 10
    0
    Quote: Cyril
    And what is the logic

    To save face. It seems like France continues its embargo, but the boats were simply hijacked.
  • Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) April 25 2020 10: 26
    +1
    https://warspot.ru/10793-ugon-sherburskih-katerov

    - here you can read how the Israelis did this operation. There was a whole fraud with shell companies, which would be very strange if there were any secret agreements with the French president. The only one who could be dragged from the French command to this operation was General Louis Bonte.
  • Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
    Dart2027 April 25 2020 22: 07
    +1
    Quote: Cyril
    There was a whole fraud with shell companies, which would be very strange if there were any secret agreements with the President of France

    Why so? France wants to save face in front of the Arabs and, on the other hand, solve the problem with these boats, which it does not need. Boats are being completed, crews are being trained, no one is stopping them from going out to sea. Nobody pays attention to the signals that Israel is preparing something, despite the fact that when the embargo was announced, several boats went to Israel, as they say, in English. Straight one to one.
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 10: 30
    +1
    Forgive me magnanimously, but who is an elephant today? Objectively, Israel opposed dozens of countries, including not only the Arab states, but also Pakistan, Cuba, the German Democratic Republic, and the USSR. Remember, in Egypt the Soviet contingent was 50000 soldiers and officers. So what? The Cyclopean Mountains of Soviet weapons did not help. And all the wars waged by the glorious IDF ended in defeat and shame for the aggressor. By the way, the Soviet aces flew into the air against Jewish pilots once. Remind me how it ended?
    1. plabu Offline plabu
      plabu April 23 2020 13: 26
      -2
      Quote: Rogue1812
      ... By the way, the Soviet aces once flew up against the Jewish pilots. Remind me how it ended?

      It’s better for you and yourself not only to remind yourself how an airplane flew over your capital, but they couldn’t do anything with it, no matter how they tried ... Remind me when and under what circumstances this happened? hi
      And what did Israel change its mind after that? ... hi
  • Xaxol yastreb Offline Xaxol yastreb
    Xaxol yastreb (Xaxol Yastreb) April 22 2020 16: 13
    0
    Well then, brothers, beat your?
  • shadow Offline shadow
    shadow April 22 2020 16: 20
    -4
    Where does PMC come from in Russia?
    1. Dear sofa expert. April 23 2020 10: 16
      0
      They are not in Russia.
  • Alexzn Online Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) April 22 2020 17: 46
    +1
    It is likely that Israeli pilots took advantage of the jump airfield in Jordan and entered the territory of Syria from the south.

    What you don’t know here on the site. Hop airfield in Jordan! Why not on the moon? The author does not have a coronavirus, by chance?
  • gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) April 23 2020 08: 38
    -3
    Buk complexes fired for the first time on Israeli aircraft in Syria

    - Well, yes ... - They saluted ... Israeli aircraft ...
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 10: 33
      0
      Quote: gorenina91
      Buk complexes fired for the first time on Israeli aircraft in Syria

      - Well, yes ... - They saluted ... Israeli aircraft ...

      Directly on Arkady Gaidar: "Airplanes fly, salute to the boys !!!" )
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 10: 39
    0
    Quote: Dear couch expert.
    But attack your territory as they can. It will come to this. When the tanks will ride through the streets, you will restrain laughter so as not to put yourself in your pants

    I think this will happen on Thursday.)
    1. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
      gorenina91 (Irina) April 23 2020 13: 04
      -4
      I think this will happen on Thursday.)

      - Well, on Thursday ... not on Thursday ... - But when Israel attacks Russia, it will launch its air strikes from Chukotka ... - That's for sure ...
  • NordUral Offline NordUral
    NordUral (Eugene) April 23 2020 14: 27
    +1
    It was not possible to damage the attacking aircraft due to the powerful electronic defense.

    Are beeches really old?
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 14: 31
    +1
    Quote: 321
    Quote: Rogue1812
    ... By the way, the Soviet aces once flew up against the Jewish pilots. Remind me how it ended?

    To yourself, and not only to yourself, better remind you how the plane flew over your capital, but you couldn’t do anything with it, no matter how you tried it ... Remind me when and under what circumstances this happened? hi
    And what did Israel change its mind after that? ... hi

    Not over the capital, but over Tel Aviv. They tried to reach them with rockets, but they didn’t get them, Israeli fighters did not rise to the altitude available at that time (1973) of the MiG 25. It's more interesting to see what happened next. They shot down the MiG 25, not at that time - later. Over the Mediterranean Sea. And the Israeli Air Force today does not know opponents to the height of which Jewish fighters could not rise. Do not remind which model Syrian MiG was landed this year by one pretty Jewish anti-aircraft officer. When he invaded Israel. How the deceased will get to the houris is not supposed to. After all, he fell in battle at the hands of a woman. That's where the horror is, somehow quiet. )
    1. plabu Offline plabu
      plabu April 23 2020 19: 22
      -1
      Quote: Rogue1812
      Quote: 321
      Quote: Rogue1812
      ... By the way, the Soviet aces once flew up against the Jewish pilots. Remind me how it ended?

      To yourself, and not only to yourself, better remind you how the plane flew over your capital, but you couldn’t do anything with it, no matter how you tried it ... Remind me when and under what circumstances this happened? hi
      And what did Israel change its mind after that? ... hi

      Not over the capital, but over Tel Aviv. They tried to reach with missiles, didn’t reach, Israeli fighters did not rise to the height accessible at that time (1973) MiG 25 ...

      One thing pleases, your predecessor in the discussion, did not even know about this, or did not want to know, and I wrote all of this for one single reason - having slightly read that yours, that Cyril, can be said, panegyrics on the topic "wow, what are we the most “the most,” but in fact, there are different periods in the history of each country. It is the same with you, and with us, and almost everywhere, so to consider yourself the very, very, very long enough is fraught ...
      And as for the capital - you can continue to consider, I have a different opinion. hi
      And whoever hit whom and when, the gurus and so on - I’m not interested, alas. bully
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 15: 59
        0
        One thing pleases, your predecessor in the discussion, did not even know about it,

        Cyril (that is, I) is well aware of Israel’s military misses during the Arab-Israeli wars. For example, how the Jews slapped the attack of the Arabs at the very beginning of the Doomsday War for a ridiculous reason - because "on Saturday the Torah orders to rest."

        Nevertheless, having recovered from defeats at the very beginning of the VVD, Israel was able not only to recapture the Arabs, armed with modern Soviet weapons at that time and outnumbering, but also to make it so that two of the three leading countries of the attackers (Jordan and Egypt ) Israel was never attacked again, and Syria was never able to recover normally from losses, having lost its military advantage almost completely.

        It is the same with you, and with us, and almost everywhere, so to consider yourself the very, very, very long enough is fraught ...

        I confirmed my opinion on this subject not only with historical analogies, but also with the current situation of Israel and Syria, which is easy to analyze if you have a head on your shoulders. If you have a problem with the latter, this is your business.
        1. plabu Offline plabu
          plabu April 24 2020 21: 32
          -1
          Quote: Cyril
          It is the same with you, and with us, and almost everywhere, so to consider yourself the very, very, very long enough is fraught ...

          I confirmed my opinion on this subject not only with historical analogies, but also with the current situation of Israel and Syria, which is easy to analyze if you have a head on your shoulders. If you have a problem with the latter, this is your business.

          Alas, you only confirmed by writing about what was expected of you, but this is okay - the main thing is that you still did not understand what I wrote about, well, these are your problems. hi
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 21: 45
            +1
            ... that you still do not understand what I wrote about, well, these are your problems hi

            What you wrote, I cited as a quote. And I answered that.

            Alas, you only confirmed by writing about what was expected of you

            As always, there is no specifics from you, just an attempt to maintain your good face in a bad game.

            Everything that I write - I confirm with concrete arguments, be it historical analogies or examples from the current state of the armed forces of the countries in question.
            1. plabu Offline plabu
              plabu April 24 2020 21: 56
              -1
              Quote: Cyril
              that you didn’t understand what I wrote about, well these are your problems hi

              What you wrote, I cited as a quote. And I answered that.

              Alas, you only confirmed by writing about what was expected of you

              As always, there is no specifics from you, just an attempt to maintain your good face in a bad game.

              Everything that I write - I confirm with concrete arguments, be it historical analogies or examples from the current state of the armed forces of the countries in question.

              You can continue to believe that they did give the fool the fool, but the main thing is that even after quoting, you still don’t understand what they wrote to you about. But these are already your problems - your attempts at analysis, analogies and even examples are not impressive even once, but nobody personally tries to forbid you to think that you have arguments ... bully hi
              1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 22: 03
                0
                you still don’t understand what they wrote to you about

                And how can you understand your unconscious nonsense?

                your attempts at analysis, analogies and even examples are never impressive

                Naturally, you are not impressed, since you do not possess even the elementary methods of logical argumentation. The only thing you are good at is cluttering the discussion with transitions to personalities, moralizing, and replacing theses. Here yes - you have no equal.
                1. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu April 24 2020 22: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: Cyril
                  ... And how can you understand your unconscious nonsense? ...

                  Not able to understand - nothing to comment on, re-read again and then again - and so on until you understand the meaning of what was written. bully

                  Quote: Cyril
                  ... The only thing you are good at is cluttering the discussion with transitions to personalities, moralizing, and replacing theses. Here yes - you have no equal.

                  Well, not all the time, only you are engaged in rudeness and distortion, negative and so consider further that Israel is the most-most-most - I would like to look at your expression of what you are eating when it suddenly turns out that this is not so. hi
                  1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                    Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 22: 44
                    0
                    meaning written

                    Which in your words is not.

                    Well, not all the time just to you rudeness

                    I show rudeness only in response to rudeness.

                    and juggle

                    I do not do it, unlike you.

                    and consider further that Israel is the most-most-most.

                    And again, the substitution of theses. I have never said that Israel is "the most-most-most." I said that in the event of a full-fledged military confrontation between Israel and Syria, air defense (as well as the armed forces as a whole) can be collected in pieces. As confirmation of this, he cited examples from history when Israel was weaker than now, and Syria, on the contrary, stronger than now. Elementary logic, which you obviously do not own, allows you to argue that if Israel broke Syria in those days, it will even more so today. Because over the past time, its armed forces have intensified, and the Syrian ones have weakened.

                    Also, in your comparison of Israel with Moska from Krylov’s fable, I have provided factual evidence of how this “Moska” was not afraid to go for a targeted military operation against the armed forces of both the USSR and the USA.

                    And the fact that you interpret it as if I consider Israel the “most-most” military power on the planet are just your speculations that you regularly give birth in your head, and then you argue with them yourself.
                    1. plabu Offline plabu
                      plabu April 25 2020 06: 58
                      0
                      Quote: Cyril
                      meaning written

                      Which in your words is not.

                      Well, not all the time just to you rudeness ...

                      I show rudeness only in response to rudeness ...

                      If it’s easier for you not to understand the meaning of what you wrote, but to say that it makes no sense there is your choice and your decision, it, like you, as a matter of fact, do not take much — the conclusion is who you are have long been clear.

                      Quote: Cyril
                      ...
                      and juggle

                      I do not do it, unlike you.

                      and consider further that Israel is the most-most-most.

                      And again, the substitution of theses ...

                      Doing it, but the fact that you either do not understand this yourself or pretend that you do not understand - “characterizes” you as capaciously as possible, whether you would like it or not ...

                      Quote: Cyril
                      ... Also, for your comparison of Israel with Moska from Krylov’s fable, I have provided factual evidence of how this “Moska” was not afraid to go for a targeted military operation against the armed forces of both the USSR and the USA ...

                      I wasn’t afraid to do what she was asked or ordered to do - I’m not going to draw conclusions myself - you were already hinted at it, but you only need to “bring a certificate signed by the murdered person” bully This is an analogy - you even have to clarify such nuances, but about the boat, Liberty, oh how not yesterday and after a decent meeting, that one retiree used to say a couple of phrases, oh, what talkative retirees come across sometimes - but you just need help, and with print, go on and on like that ... hi
                      And they have already written to you about the Soviet units and their participation more than once - to say that it was not there at all? Why - it was, the question is, in what size and for what purpose - and here you get a snag, but when did such "little things" bother you, right?
                      Yes, and how you smiled at reading your opuses on the topic of those boats and about the “facts” - in your understanding, and well, and the like, but as it really was, you are not interested, well, stay on with your illusions.
                      One, now disappeared from the screens, also a fighter for the very, very Israel, already cited a couple of examples - well, at least about a book, autographed by the author, so either your unwillingness to get to the bottom of the hidden causes of the event, or your desire to wishful thinking leads and has already led to the fact that the level of your awareness is in those topics that we discuss here. The theme of Mask and others like it is completely uninteresting to me - politely speaking, it leaves much to be desired, whether you want it or not ... hi
                      You, figuratively speaking, glide over the surface and nothing more ...
                      PS By the way, about the book and the autograph - I won’t post the photo, there my name and everything else is written, and their announcement is not included in my plans, why do I need it?
                      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) April 25 2020 14: 06
                        +1
                        If it’s easier for you not to understand the meaning of what you wrote, but to say that there is no point

                        Because he is not there.

                        Doing it, but the fact that you either do not understand this yourself or pretend that you do not understand - “characterizes” you as capaciously as possible, whether you would like it or not ...

                        Can you give at least one example of my distortions? Here are examples of your substitution of theses, transitions to emotions instead of logic, etc. I can give at any time.

                        I was not afraid to do what was asked of her or ordered — here I myself won’t take any conclusions — you were already hinted at this, but you only need to “bring a certificate signed by the killed person personally.

                        Estimate - yes. Arguments in disputes on historical events are just historical evidence, documents, eyewitness accounts. But I understand that you do not have them.

                        oh how not yesterday and after a decent meeting, that one retirement used to say a couple of phrases, oh what talkative retirees come across sometimes

                        - what kind of "retirement"? Last name, position, how did you participate in the incident in question?

                        the question is, in what size and for what purpose - and here you get a snag, but when did such "little things" bother you, right?

                        Pffff, no problem at all. As an example, I cited the Soviet operation "Caucasus" as an example, in the framework of which the following were sent to Egypt:

                        In preparation for its implementation, the 18th Special Anti-aircraft Missile Division, the 135th Fighter Aviation Regiment and the 35th Separate Fighter Aviation Squadron were formed behind the scenes.

                        The total number of Soviet troops sent to Egypt was 32. The grouping included:

                        Aviation Group
                        The 35th Separate Fighter Aviation Squadron - 30 MiG-21МФ
                        135th Fighter Aviation Regiment - 40 MiG-21МФ
                        63-th separate aviation squad - 2 MiG-25Р, 2 MiG-25РБ
                        formation of anti-aircraft missile forces
                        18th Special Anti-Aircraft Missile Division
                        Naval group
                        Warships and vessels from the 5th Mediterranean Operational Squadron
                        90-I separate special-purpose reconnaissance aviation squadron (90-I odrae HE) - 6 Tu-16Р, 3 An-12РР, 3 Бе-12.
                        EW Group
                        Separate EW Center
                        513-th Separate Shortwave Radio Interference Battalion
                        a separate company of VHF radio interference

                        The fact that the Soviet military did not just advise and train the Egyptians or perform strictly organizational work, but directly participated in the hostilities, can be read here:

                        https://biography.wikireading.ru/203799

                        - Here are collected the memoirs of Soviet troops directly involved in the hostilities against Israel.

                        And in 1982, a similar operation began to support Syria - Kavkaz-2. We look:

                        Then, in October, during the Moscow talks between Syrian President H. Assad and Politburo member Yu. V. Andropov, a decision was made to direct military participation of the USSR in conflict.

                        The contingent included two anti-aircraft missile regimentsarmed with ultra-long-range S-200VE systems (this was the first delivery of the S-200 missile system outside the Soviet Union), a missile and technical base, as well as helicopter and ground electronic warfare units.

                        Colonel I.I. Teterev, who commanded the 220th anti-aircraft missile regiment in Syria, noted that, in carrying out the combat mission of providing the ATS with international assistance, Soviet anti-aircraft gunners regularly carried out combat duty.

                        Saying after such a thing that the USSR helped the Arabs only indirectly, supplying weapons and military advisers, there will only be one who cannot find information elementarily.

                        Yes, and how you smiled at reading your opuses on the topic of those boats and about the “facts” - in your understanding, well, and the like, but as it really was, you are not interested, well, stay on with your illusions

                        Do you have any information about how it really was? Could you give me a link where there would be confirmations that Israel hijacked boats by some secret arrangements with the French president?

                        By the way, about the book and the autograph - I won’t post the photo, my name and everything else is written there, and their announcement is not included in my plans, why do I need it?

                        Ah, yes, yes, yes ... "I have secret documents, but they are secret so that they will not be shown to anyone." Your favorite "argument."

                        politely speaking, it leaves much to be desired, whether you want it or not ...

                        Maybe so. But the level of your awareness, judging by the lack of any evidence on your part, is generally zero.
                      2. plabu Offline plabu
                        plabu April 25 2020 16: 03
                        -1
                        Quote: Cyril
                        ... because he is not there ...

                        Whoever doubts, instead of understanding the meaning, it is much easier for you to write like this - this is your choice.

                        Quote: Cyril
                        ... I am here examples of your substitution of theses, transitions to emotions instead of logic, etc. I can give at any moment ...

                        Your one twist in the last discussion about Thatcher and so on is a lot of “worth”.

                        Quote: Cyril
                        ...
                        I was not afraid to do what was asked of her, or ordered - here I myself won’t take any conclusions - you were already hinted at this, but you only have to “bring a certificate signed by the killed person personally”.

                        Estimate - yes. Arguments in disputes on historical events are just historical evidence, documents, eyewitness accounts. But I understand that you do not have them ...

                        For you not - read scientific articles, and even better, documents in archives, but you are not so interested, you prefer ersatz - this is your choice...

                        Quote: Cyril
                        ... Pffff, no problem at all. As an example, I cited the Soviet operation "Caucasus" as an example, in the framework of which the following was sent to Egypt:

                        And why were there so many letters to write? - all this has long been known, the main thing is that you think that in general, everything happened on a territory in the fighting, but the fact that the lion's share of all this contingent was involved in security, defense, defense, etc. a number of key objects - again, when such "little things" interested you and your colleagues. But this is no longer surprising - in your performance ... Separate and very few exceptions only confirm this rule, but it does not bother you at all ...

                        Quote: Cyril
                        ... Do you have any information how it really was? Could you give me a reference, where there would be confirmations that Israel hijacked boats by some secret arrangements with the French president? ...

                        Everything has already been written to you - you don’t know how, or don’t want to perceive what you’ve written, or you need details - well, one thing I can say for sure - from me your “colleagues” of your hobby called Russophobia, who either learn the most important thing last but not least about the retirement, and about all that sort of thing - you personally DO NOT get this information. Read books, articles, memoirs - from there and find out everything you want, however, I have no doubt in your abilities, you will “find and post” in any sources only what is convenient for you and confirms what you have already said. That which contradicts at least in the slightest degree - you or your comrades will either not notice or pretend that it does not deserve your trust, or from the wrong source - all this has long been known and not invented by you. bully

                        Quote: Cyril
                        ... Ah, well, yes, yes ... "I have secret documents, but they are secret so that they will not be shown to anyone." Your favorite "argument" ...

                        And who told you that I’m going to show you my level?
                        More than ten years ago, the same questioner is also - and with what confirm? Laid out, bang, the very next day, colleagues on the thematic forum write that the article on your topic appeared, and that link, it all ended badly — for the one who was trying to steal the info, he was going to defend his “work”, and not in Russia, after a letter to the academic council of that university, information about his defense disappeared somewhere ...
                        PS So you collect the Old yourself, and only yourself.
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 15: 04
    0
    Quote: NordUral
    It was not possible to damage the attacking aircraft due to the powerful electronic defense.

    Are beeches really old?

    That is absolutely!
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 15: 19
    -1
    Quote: gorenina91
    I think this will happen on Thursday.)

    - Well, on Thursday ... not on Thursday ... - But when Israel attacks Russia, it will launch its air strikes from Chukotka ... - That's for sure ...

    No. Chukotka is Israel’s favorite springboard for air and tank attacks on Syria. They have secrets in full combat readiness.
  • Serge Tixiy Offline Serge Tixiy
    Serge Tixiy (Serge Tixiy) April 23 2020 16: 10
    0
    I like it so much, with a light hand of the "fountain" and other liberal and not only media outlets, Russian PMCs crawl through the network. Zhurnalyugi, you look into the legislation. Find the norm there with PMCs. You have beguiled your masters from overseas and Russia. Of course, to find a jerk, give him a bottle - he will tell you that he serves in PMCs, and personally knows Wagner, and how many "spirits" he personally put .... ink is not enough. Only this is not enough to confirm the virtual "duck".
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) April 23 2020 16: 38
    +1
    Lack of initiative and following instructions in the fact that in this battle the Soviet pilots acted stereotyped. A tactic called "Kuban whatnot" was used. When the planes passed in pairs as if on a parade in front of two Mirages, which depicted "game", parted. And these "Mirages" turned around and attacked the Soviet planes, the pilots of which found themselves blocked from above, below and behind their tail. But they could no longer rebuild. And they were shot down one by one. Improvisation in the unexpectedly changed combat situation was not shown. This is what we are talking about. And the very fact that the regiment was recalled to the USSR after this battle is evidence that at that time they could not oppose the skill of Jewish pilots in the USSR. Anyway, what to talk about? If in October 1973, with absolute superiority in artillery and air defense systems, triple superiority in tanks and aviation, in a couple of weeks they suffered another shameful defeat. The Israelis stood 20 km from Damascus, entered the strategic road Suez-Cairo, and blocked the 3rd Army. And this despite the fact that the Arabs managed to catch the Jews by surprise on two fronts. The Arab horde under a million armed to the teeth and technically equipped soldiers and officers on the Suez Canal was opposed by 400 reservists, in the Golan a little more than 700. And today I read on the website tales about how Assad's gang, matured in battles, will destroy Israel. I admit, except perhaps on the Korrespondent website, from the sofas that will virtually surround Israel from all sides. And out of the ground.
    1. head kolgospu Offline head kolgospu
      head kolgospu (Alexander) April 24 2020 20: 38
      -1
      You can drown as much as you like for Israel, but while they are not very crap, they live ..
      And so ... "One tablet is enough ..." in the form of "Satan" and ... EVERYTHING! Neither aviation nor air defense .. NOTHING !!!
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) April 24 2020 22: 47
        -1
        And so ... "One tablet is enough ..." in the form of "Satan" and ... EVERYTHING! neither aviation, nor air defense .. NOTHING !!!

        Only now to apply this "tablet" against Israel will be only the last club. And those, fortunately, are not in the RF Armed Forces yet.