100 billion apiece: the Russian fleet did not pull the destroyer Leader


Apparently, Russia will remain a “land power” in the foreseeable future. Plans for the construction of full-fledged aircraft carriers did not cause anything but a smile for understanding people. Now, the promising nuclear destroyer Leader of project 23560 and the modernized frigate of project 22350M went under the knife.


What is it, a reasonable saving in difficult times or a silent rejection of claims for a distant sea zone (DMZ)?

After the collapse of the USSR, the number of ships in the Navy capable of operating in the DMZ sharply decreased. Unfortunately, its restoration will now have to be forgotten for a long time. From the information that leaked into open access, it became known that work on projects 23560 and 22350M was suspended a few years ago, in 2016, although beautiful models of warships continued to wander from exhibition to exhibition.

What will not receive our country?

The project of the destroyer with a nuclear power plant "Leader" impressed with its characteristics. In fact, it was not even a destroyer, but a real missile cruiser, capable of operating in the ocean zone. One ship was supposed to replace three classes at once: missile cruisers of project 1164 Atlant, destroyers of project 956 code Sarych, and BOD project 1155 Frigate.

In terms of strike capabilities, the Leaders would be second only to the Eagles, which include the Peter the Great nuclear missile cruiser, the flagship of the Northern Fleet. The destroyer with a nuclear installation was to become the carrier of the Caliber-NK, Onyx and hypersonic Zircon cruise missiles. Thanks to its power plant, the ship could operate in the far sea zone, projecting force in the rear or on the communications of a potential adversary, by which we traditionally mean the United States with its fleet.

"Leaders" were good, but their complexity and high cost of creation played against them. According to some estimates, the cost of one destroyer would be about 100 billion rubles, but in reality, probably more. However, this project was not even buried now, when oil quotes forced to shed tears, and back in 2016. Apparently, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation considered that the probability of a marine non-nuclear war with the Pentagon somewhere in the Atlantic or in the Pacific Ocean is so small that it is not worth spending such funds on a "representative" ship.

More questions are caused by the "drain" of the project 22350M. This is a modernized version of the already built Admiral Gorshkov with increased displacement and ammunition. At each such frigate, 48 units of Onyx, Zircon and Caliber cruise missiles were to be installed. Unlike the futuristic Leader, this is quite a "workhorse", which the Russian Navy really needs. Apparently, the catch is still in the engines, the problem with which arose due to the breakdown of industrial cooperation with Ukraine.

In general, the distant ocean expanses to our Navy do not shine for a long time.
Photos used: Artem Tkachenko / wikimedia.org
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  1. King3214 Offline
    King3214 (Sergius) April 20 2020 13: 48
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    With modern missile systems - aircraft carriers the day before. For many hundreds of billions. An aircraft carrier is needed for a war with the Papuans, such as the countries of Africa or Ukraine with Poland.
    With whom to fight Russia in the far ocean zone? Russia is not a colonial empire.
    1. Igor Pavlovich Offline
      Igor Pavlovich (Igor Pavlovich) April 20 2020 14: 04
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      Hungry godfather Fox climbed into the garden.
      In it the grapes of the brush were held.
      Kumushki’s eyes and teeth flared up.
      And the brushes are juicy, like yachts burn,
      Only trouble, they hang high:
      Wherever she goes to them,
      Though he sees the eye,
      Yes, tooth noumet.
      Breaking through the whole hour,
      She went and said in vexation: “Well, then!
      At a glance, he is good,
      Yes, green - no mature berries:
      Immediately you’ll nag your mouth.

      I.A. Krylov
      1. General Black Offline
        General Black (Gennady) April 20 2020 18: 51
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        Allow me, Igor Pavlovich, to answer, as an "American" and in your person, to all the saviors of mankind.

        Valiantly and courageously
        overthrowing the evil army
        the knight is very important
        Spurs are not about .... Th.


        I.Guberman
        1. Igor Pavlovich Offline
          Igor Pavlovich (Igor Pavlovich) April 20 2020 20: 03
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          You, quoting Igor Mironovich, of course, have grown intellectually in my eyes, but I'd rather play chess with Kasparov. hi
          1. General Black Offline
            General Black (Gennady) April 20 2020 20: 25
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            Watch out for spurs. hi
    2. Marzhecki Offline
      Marzhecki (Sergei) April 20 2020 14: 22
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      Then why spend budget funds on initially unnecessary projects?
      1. Orange big Offline
        Orange big (Max) April 20 2020 21: 23
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        Quote: Marzhetsky
        Then why spend budget funds on initially unnecessary projects?

        Explain which projects you consider unnecessary? Project atomic cruiser Leader? I agree. Superfluous. Like aircraft carriers in our geopolitical realities. The frigate 22350 project has been worked out and its improved versions are being built with ammunition increased to 24 KR — these are ships of the far sea zone — frigates. The project of the destroyer 22350M - a ship of the far ocean zone, has not yet been completed and before 2022 the completion of this project can not be expected. It’s simply that not everything has been worked out and worked out to lay the 22350M, and not that the Russian Defense Ministry simply did not want to and abandoned it. In fact, this is almost a new project with a displacement of about 7000. We need new engines, again under it.
        1. Observer2014 Offline
          Observer2014 April 21 2020 18: 36
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          Quote: Orange Big
          Quote: Marzhetsky
          Then why spend budget funds on initially unnecessary projects?

          Explain which projects you consider unnecessary? Project atomic cruiser Leader? I agree. Superfluous. Like aircraft carriers in our geopolitical realities. The frigate 22350 project has been worked out and its improved versions are being built with ammunition increased to 24 KR — these are ships of the far sea zone — frigates. The project of the destroyer 22350M - a ship of the far ocean zone, has not yet been completed and before 2022 the completion of this project can not be expected. It’s simply that not everything has been worked out and worked out to lay the 22350M, and not that the Russian Defense Ministry simply did not want to and abandoned it. In fact, this is almost a new project with a displacement of about 7000. We need new engines, again under it.

          They asked you a question!

          Why spend budget funds on initially unnecessary projects?

          Stop wagging! Just answer it! If you do not know, do not answer!
    3. Nick Offline
      Nick (Nikolai) April 20 2020 15: 27
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      Quote: King3214
      With modern missile systems - aircraft carriers the day before. For many hundreds of billions.
      An aircraft carrier is needed for a war with the Papuans, such as the countries of Africa or Ukraine with Poland.
      With whom to fight Russia in the far ocean zone? Russia is not a colonial empire.

      You, of course, are partly right. Russia, having a defensive doctrine, first of all needs to protect the near sea zone, but to protect its shores it would be nice to control the sea communications of probable comrades in the oceans. Yes, for this, the Russian Navy has excellent multipurpose nuclear submarines, but it is better to have a surface component. Both components IMHO, would complement each other well.
    4. sgrabik Offline
      sgrabik (Sergei) April 20 2020 16: 20
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      Yes, no one argues with this. Our fleet really does not need aircraft carriers, which can not be said about modern missile ships of the destroyer and frigate class. These ships are simply necessary for us, and if the closure of these projects is really true, then it is not at all clear what our Ministry of Defense is thinking !!!
      1. Orange big Offline
        Orange big (Max) April 20 2020 21: 13
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        Quote: sgrabik
        Yes, no one argues with this. Our fleet really does not need aircraft carriers, which can not be said about modern missile ships of the destroyer and frigate class. These ships are simply necessary for us, and if the closure of these projects is really true, then it is completely unclear what our Ministry of Defense is thinking !!!

        The frigates of project 22350, albeit not in a large series, are being built with us, the other day two new frigates of project 22350 with increased ammunition up to 24 missiles will be laid. The destroyer of the project 22350M, due to its unavailability (of the project) and key elements such as engines that have not yet been developed, is not practical to lay at the moment. The Leader project is an atomic cruiser that no one in the world is building now, so the decision on it is right.
        1. 123 Offline
          123 (123) April 21 2020 18: 39
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          The Leader project is an atomic cruiser that no one in the world is building now, so the decision on it is right.

          Forgive me, of course, but it does not seem deliberate to justify the absence of the need for a ship with the wording “no one in the world is building now”.
          Naturally, no one will start building it right now, the shipbuilding industry is simply not ready. I believe that they will return to the project in a few years, when the serial production of the 22350M is debugged.
      2. Cat Offline
        Cat (Sergei) 4 May 2020 16: 14
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        Well, as if you were right ... about aircraft carriers, but as they wrote somewhere - "A fleet without wings is a drowned man." We, too, can’t sit behind the Iron Curtain. You have to be in the Ocean, we won’t be partners. And there, without him, our partners will simply laugh at us. And in which case, just drown. In addition, in 5-7 years, we will have new types of ships that have never been part of our fleet - UDC. We must learn and work with them, gain experience. And for them, crews need to be trained somewhere, along with the staff of deck-based helicopters, and maybe VTOL, etc., etc. And we have Kuznetsov. Of course, they like to scold him endlessly as an AB, only he was born like the Tbilisi Tavkr. In fact, it remained to them, no matter how we tried to stick the non-stickable into it. In particular, the Su-33 aircraft, excellent in all respects, cannot take off from it with its maximum load of 33 tons, of which 6,5 tons of bombs. And he flew in Syria with two FAB-500 bombs. Kuznetsov is too small for him. Maybe even the Nimitians are small for him too, but there are at least catapults. He is not an aircraft carrier. But there is a Mig-29K regiment. Which takes off with 4 explosives almost at the foot of the ship. So it is necessary to use it as an expeditionary universal aircraft carrier, as someone else wrote somewhere. Plant a regiment of fighters on it, the Katran link, the Ka-29 link, the Ka-31 link and to the seas to it. Let us have ONE such a group, it is anyway better when IT IS NOT! We already have an escort, not many, but there are. 4 cruisers, 5 frigates, 8 BOD, 6 corvettes. For each type of unit on which the PLO squadron will be based, the fleet can safely allocate to the escort of the Expeditionary squadron. And let these 5-7 years he work out all the new aircraft carrier equipment, including unmanned “Orions”, which can be a day ... well, where necessary. That is, the shock tasks of AB must be abandoned, since they are impossible. With the modern radius of the air defense system with the Aegis air defense system, 300-400 km, we would have an argument in the form of the Onyx anti-aircraft missile with a range of 500-600 km, and not a single aircraft can lift it from the deck. Well, it’s not necessary, if anything, they will be on escort ships. The main thing for us would be to have an air defense umbrella with a radius of 1000 km so that the Mig-29K can provide.
  2. Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 20 2020 14: 39
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    No one doubted.
    All these projects are window dressing and so that the designers do not completely spill over.
  3. steelmaker Offline
    steelmaker April 20 2020 14: 52
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    We have built scientific vessels for almost ten years. Therefore, is it rather greed or betrayal? Money could be found on such a ship. Moreover, 100 billion rubles - this is not a year!
    1. Orange big Offline
      Orange big (Max) April 20 2020 21: 05
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      Quote: steel maker
      We have built scientific vessels for almost ten years. Therefore, is it rather greed or betrayal? Money could be found on such a ship. Moreover, 100 billion rubles - this is not a year!

      It’s not about money. The thing so far is the technical unpreparedness to start building a project; not everything has been developed for it yet.
  4. Astronaut Offline
    Astronaut (San Sanych) April 20 2020 20: 41
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    You read such an author - and you understand that he almost serves on the General Staff! laughing
    1. Marzhecki Offline
      Marzhecki (Sergei) April 21 2020 18: 48
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      If you are not in the know, the job of journalists is to collect, process and analyze information.
  5. Orange big Offline
    Orange big (Max) April 20 2020 20: 59
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    In general, the distant ocean expanses to our Navy do not shine for a long time.

    Seriously, what about the submarines of the Navy of the Russian Federation, which are on duty in the distant oceans? And the available surface ships quite themselves pass through the English Channel into the same Syria.

    More questions are caused by the "drain" of project 22350M. This is a modernized version of the already built Admiral Gorshkov with increased displacement and ammunition.

    There is no discharge, there is simply nothing to lay. The military did not fully develop the requirements for the destroyer 22350M (about 7000 displacement), in addition, it is noticeably larger than 22350 and it is necessary to develop new engines for it, most likely from scratch, and this again is time. Or do you want the hulls to stand idle without sliders, paralyzing the shipyards?

    the snag still lies in the engines, the problem with which arose due to the breakdown of industrial cooperation with Ukraine.

    Russia has mastered the production of now completely domestic engines for the 22350, but cooperation with Ukraine has never touched upon the 22350M project, in fact, it wasn’t there at that time (the project), so Ukraine had nothing to do with it. Here from scratch you need to develop engines. Experience is already there according to the example of the engine design for 22350, it remains to wait for the creation of engines for 22350M.
  6. bear040 Offline
    bear040 April 20 2020 21: 42
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    As for destroyers, aircraft carriers and cruisers with a nuclear power plant, not only the high price, but also the lower survivability in the battle of such a ship, compared to a cruiser equipped with gas turbines, plays against them ... In addition, ships with nuclear power plants international agreements closed the entrance to the Black and Baltic Seas, and the Russian Federation needs serial ships, since only this will make their construction and maintenance both easier and cheaper, and will allow them to be transferred to any fleet, if necessary ... Refuse to build ships 1 and 2 ranks is completely stupid and will not lead to good ...
    1. Orange big Offline
      Orange big (Max) April 20 2020 21: 50
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      Refusing to build ships of rank 1 and 2 is completely stupid and will not lead to good ...

      I agree. But we have what we have. Hope for the projects of the destroyer 22350M and frigate (already worked out) 22350.
      1. bear040 Offline
        bear040 April 20 2020 21: 54
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        In fact, 22350M frigates have already been under construction since 2019, since the last two ships laid down will already have 24 launchers for anti-ship missiles, and not 16, like on Gorshkov and previously laid down ... The question is, no matter how good the frigate is, he will not be able to drag the ammunition of a cruiser on him, have the same range and seaworthiness ... At least new destroyers are needed ... if not nuclear, but with gas turbines, but destroyers ...
        1. Orange big Offline
          Orange big (Max) April 20 2020 22: 00
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          22350M are destroyers with a displacement of about 7000 tons. Approximately the same displacement for the American destroyers Arly Burke and the British destroyers Daring. The 22350M is noticeably larger than the 22350 frigates and has more ammunition. Improved frigates of the second 22350 series with 24 KP are being built (the first series has 16 KP), but these are not destroyers.
          1. bear040 Offline
            bear040 April 20 2020 22: 09
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            It’s clear that these are not destroyers, but modernized frigates ... That’s the point, most likely, we need to return to something like the initial gas turbine project of a destroyer of the 21956 type of 9000 tons, of course, taking into account modern technologies and weapons.
  7. boriz Offline
    boriz (boriz) April 21 2020 00: 06
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    Most likely, it is simply a matter of politics. The situation is changing rapidly, in front of our eyes. The US will no longer strive for hegemony around the world. Therefore, AUG will either be joking or go to scrap. There will be no global wars. No one will have the armada of huge ships.
    The United States will close in its region, according to the Monroe Doctrine. Enough for them there too.
    And in general, in the near future, the powers will engage in negotiations on peace. After these negotiations, the agreements reached will be respected for at least 30 years. So, gigantomania is in the past. They already can’t take Venezuela from Russia.
  8. Observer2014 Offline
    Observer2014 April 21 2020 18: 28
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    100 billion apiece: the Russian fleet did not pull the destroyer Leader

    laughing good drinks Editorial Respect! For the creativity of the obligatory presentation of material about “Leader”, it was possible to heap and about “Manatee” and other garbage. laughing It's time to award a prize about this incredibly patriotic news to print media! I am for you! drinks
    1. Observer2014 Offline
      Observer2014 April 21 2020 21: 01
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      Online
      Observer 2014 April 19, 2020 01:46

      Something long ago about the future mountains of the seas there were no articles. "Leader" and "Manatee." laughing Nobody has canceled the cycle of time! am The time has come! It's time to broadcast. Do not forget!

      I live! Already not just wang! I’m graphocalyostric! wassat laughing