“Give us back the right to become infected!”: Which is more dangerous for Russia — coronavirus or liberals?


Apparently, the “winged” expression that has long turned into a classic about the two troubles of our Fatherland - fools and roads, today has somewhat lost its relevance. In the second part, at least ... Other times - other problems. Today, Russia, like the rest of the world, is undergoing the invasion of the coronavirus pandemic. The trouble, definitely.


But the things that the domestic “democratic community” manages to do against the backdrop of the test that has fallen on our homeland make us think deeply: “But is this not a bunch of empty breaches, provocateurs and obviously inadequate personalities for our country a danger far greater than COVID-19, as well as all other viruses and bacteria combined ?! ”

“Give us back the right to become infected!”


"Demshiza" is a very rude expression, and, of course, offensive. Even with all my deepest dislike for the public, which they usually imprint, I try, whenever possible, not to use these words. Nevertheless, other definitions (very savory and figurative), which directly come up on the tongue after reading some of the last words and deeds of "fair-faced" and "handshake", are simply obscene. And besides, certain points in their activities make one doubt the mental health and sanity of such characters not in a figurative, but in the literal sense. Judge for yourself: activists of the international human rights group Agora have declared their firm intention to file a lawsuit against Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin. For what, in fact, about? And in such a way that, according to their opinion, the decree of the city head on self-isolation adopted on the evening of March 29 is "illegal"! He, you see, “contradicts several rules of the current legislation at once and cannot limit the freedom of city residents to such an extent as set out in it”. It turns out that Sobyanin, a kind of satrap, had to first introduce an emergency regime, then a state of emergency, and only then encroach on the most sacred thing for these gentlemen - cover their favorite taverns and clubs, and generally deprive him of the opportunity to "hang out". At the same time, in order to create the appearance that the gentlemen of the “human rights activist” are baking not only about personal and selfish, but act as “sad people”, an additional portion of bullshit binds to the common nonsense - they say, “authorities” after “the relevance of the threat coronavirus "self-isolation mode will take, and will not be canceled. So we’ll sit home for the rest of our lives!

Think about the meaning of what is happening. The leadership of the country and the capital, going to incredible tricks, is desperately trying to accomplish two, in principle, incompatible tasks: at the same time not to allow a massive, avalanche-like spread of the infection, and not to stop the economypushing us all into the abyss of crisis, unemployment and poverty. The fine line is sought by groping, on which Russia and Moscow can be kept both from the epidemic and from the economic collapse. Citizens are invited to simply “turn on their brains”, to feel the seriousness of the moment and sacrifice the small (part of the earnings, a bit of pleasure, a share of their own habits), so as not to lose much later. Or not to lose everything at all - both pleasant and useful, and, perhaps, life itself. Recall, after which the mayor’s decree hated by the liberals was born. Yes, after hundreds and thousands of Muscovites (and not only them), who absolutely did not bother to listen and understand the meaning of an appeal to them, who announced a week-long “coronavirus vacation” by Vladimir Putin, instead of implied privacy and self-isolation, they decided to arrange for themselves “ holiday of life ”- with picnics, barbecue and other group boardwalks. Well, and, as they say, "broke up." The suggestion, made in a mild form, addressed to consciousness and the very “civic conscience” with which our democrats rush about like a chicken with a written sack, had the effect of scrap iron. That is - flew into one ear and flew into the other. Well, if you do not wish for the mind, it will be for you according to the Law! What else do you want to do? But the “human rights activists” from the “Agora” in the person of a certain Dmitry Kisiev and lawyer Mansur Gilmanov believe that Sobyanin’s desire to protect his fellow citizens from the darkest possible prospects and save their lives is “legal nihilism”! Demshiza? She, darling!

To the will, all to the will!


However, this, perhaps, is far from the peak of the “proud flight of thought” of our “liberal public”. What bothers these people, on every corner, selflessly declaring themselves “the conscience of the nation” in the current year of the ordeal that has befallen our common home? After all, gentlemen, it seems that you are defending rights? So would you like to worry about how things are for the elderly, the lonely, and those who live a century in nursing homes and hospitals (the most vulnerable category, after all), for children in orphanages, for the same doctors, emergency workers? Would you like to worry about them? No, they do not want to, and categorically. But ... No, you won’t believe it, right, but the way it is! Our human rights activists are demanding that the state immediately release all illegal migrants who are currently in temporary detention centers, foreign citizens! As it is supposed, they cannot be expelled from Russia physically - because of the closure of borders and the stopping of air traffic, therefore they are forced to continue supporting them by providing at least food and shelter. However, according to the possessed “human rights defenders” from the Civic Assistance Committee, as well as colleagues who have joined their crazy demarche and represent other such offices as Memorial, For Human Rights and others like that, migrants should be immediately kicked out of the TsVSIG. That is, excuse me, "free". Where after that they will find food and shelter, who and how will control their health and isolation - such mundane "trifles" of our "fair-faced" do not care at all. There is no doubt that neither poor ladies Gannushkina and Kulaeva, nor gentlemen Ponomarev, Cherkasov, Kashnitsky are signatories of this nonsense, and they have no thoughts in their minds. But they say that the command “to free everyone” was given on a European scale by Dunya Miyatovych herself, the Council of Europe Commissioner for Human Rights. They took care instantly. Everything is simple - they give grants to “protect” migrants, but not to Russian old people. That’s all “love.”

They go even further than their own colleagues from Memorial and Civic Assistance ... how could I put it more decently? Okay - again, “human rights activists” from the “Moscow Helsinki Group”. They generally raised a petition in which they demanded that the authorities open the gates of all prisons, colonies and pre-trial detention centers wide open! Speaking in legal terms, “carry out an amnesty”, and certainly “in the shortest possible time” and “the widest”. All to freedom! Thieves, robbers, rapists and murderers - they, poor things, can become infected! At the same time, the authors of the petition completely ignored not only the numerous official statements of the Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia that there is no coronavirus in prison and there is nowhere to take it from, but also elementary common sense. Indeed, persons held in places of forced isolation have a disproportionately less chance of infection than millions of law-abiding citizens who are forced to go to work, work, or simply buy bread in a bakery every day. And you can only try to imagine all that deep, sincere, and, most importantly, very sincere appreciation that the officers of the Russian police feel for the purebloods who gave birth to this schizophrenic initiative. Those who are now plowing for wear and tear, which today are already far from sweet, and soon, perhaps, will become much more like saltwater. Here they are, to all the "joys of life", they also lack crowds of criminal scumbag that have exploded into the wild! And around - shops, offices, warehouses, depopulated on the occasion of quarantine ... And gullible citizens, fearfully quieted down to their homes. Do irresponsible villains who offer to arrange a “coronavirus amnesty” understand how many people (and not just police officers and PSC employees) will be killed during robberies and raids ?! Do they realize what criminal chaos they are trying to push Russia into the abyss of ?! You know, I suspect that they understand very well ...

Reading such “appeals”, “appeals” and petitions, one after another erupted by the domestic liberal “party” today, sharply revived by “human rights activists” and “public activists”, you begin to understand where the words “wrecker” come from in the lines of judicial sentences of the Stalin era and "Enemy of the people". But they are the very ones! Here - either a whole “bouquet” of very specific psychiatric diagnoses, or a conscious, cold and vicious desire to do harm to one’s own country and its people as much as possible. Well, no way was given a third. All this “human rights” audience is in hysteria because of quarantine and self-isolation, as they deprive it of the opportunity to earn extra money, both of a rotten political capitalist and very specific green money to fool around, once again led to some senseless and ugly “protest” ". They are eager to let anyone into our streets - migrants, criminals infected with COVID-19, even the living dead, and all for the sake of creating the chaos they love, in which they still dream of "rising."

The epidemic will end. And in Russia, if the authorities have enough decisiveness and firmness, and citizens have the consciousness and common sense, this will happen faster and easier than in those countries that our liberals have so long and stubbornly presented to us as an “ideal” that is obligatory for inheritance . Nevertheless, everything that is happening now must be remembered in the most thorough manner. So that later, when this meanest public, departing from fear and longing to continue its vile deeds, crawls out into the light of day, calling the people to the new “Bolotnaya” or where else, to present a fair bill to it. In order for people to clearly and clearly realize what exactly will happen to Russia, God forbid, those who pose a threat to our country worse than any epidemic or war will seize power. Coronavirus will defeat the Russian people - it would be good for him at the same time to get immunity to the virus of liberalism.
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  1. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
    Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) April 1 2020 08: 51
    +3
    In any society, there is a certain percentage of perverts (usually 7-10). Which includes: buggers, pedophiles with other mentally ill and liberals. And judging by the participants of the opposition rallies, they intersect with each other .... Navalny with the manners of Goebbels and lesbians with Russophobic inclinations, etc ... You cannot isolate the execution. Where to put a comma?
    1. AICO Offline AICO
      AICO (Vyacheslav) April 1 2020 11: 30
      +6
      There is no need to put commas here, but a diesel skating rink and another excavator and mixer with high-strength concrete - so as not to get out again !!!
    2. albor.ru Offline albor.ru
      albor.ru (Alexander) April 2 2020 07: 54
      +5
      It is believed that with the abolition of punitive psychiatry in Soviet prisons, the liberal community lost its qualified medical care ...
  2. Dmitry S. Offline Dmitry S.
    Dmitry S. (Dmitry Sanin) April 1 2020 08: 59
    +3
    So I wanted to write everything that I think about this audience, but except for the mat, there are no other words, and for the mat - banyat.
    1. Lieutenant Rzhevsky I April 1 2020 09: 50
      0
      Try applying a snooze.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. albor.ru Offline albor.ru
      albor.ru (Alexander) April 2 2020 07: 58
      +1
      Zoshchenko has a story in which a drowning man grabbed a horned anti-ship mine that came to the surface, so the boatswain shouted to him in a shout: Drop it! Trum-tu-ru-pum-pum pum! This is a mine! Trum-tu-ru-pum-pum pum!
  3. Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 1 2020 09: 41
    -5
    Everywhere is full of psychos.
    Here they write about abnormal liberals (about whom almost everyone hears for the first time). In other places about abnormal bureaucrats and elites (of which we have heard more).

    But Navalny is to blame anyway.
    1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
      Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 2 2020 21: 19
      +3
      Quote: Sergey Latyshev
      But Navalny is to blame anyway.

      It was Navalny who spoke of his supporters as "demshiza". About you too? winked
      1. Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 2 2020 23: 37
        -1
        Since you know such subtleties, it means taking care of you, of you ....
  4. Lieutenant Rzhevsky I April 1 2020 09: 48
    +2
    "Demshiza" is a very rude expression, and, of course, offensive.

    But velmi accurately describes the state of a certain group of people.
  5. Captain obvious Offline Captain obvious
    Captain obvious (Captain obvious) April 1 2020 09: 50
    -1
    A traditional amnesty for the 75th anniversary of the Victory can be held, why not.
    1. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
      Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) April 1 2020 09: 54
      +1
      To release small pickpockets into empty streets ... And it seems like an amnesty, and there is nothing to steal.
  6. Lieutenant Rzhevsky I April 1 2020 10: 07
    +4
    They write about abnormal liberals

    Are there normal liberals in nature? Then why is the word liberals negative and almost abusive? Maybe Dostoevsky with his:

    Our liberal is, first and foremost, a footman who only looks to whom to clean his boots.

    Or did they honestly create such a reputation for themselves?
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 1 2020 13: 10
      -1
      Quote: Lieutenant Rzhevsky I
      Are there normal liberals in nature?

      Putin claimed to be a liberal. Do you think he's normal?
      1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 2 2020 21: 22
        +2
        Quote: Oleg Rambover
        Putin claimed to be a liberal. Do you think he's normal?

        The liberal is loving freedom. Putin is a liberal. Loving freedom of the master, but for money - lackey.
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 2 2020 21: 59
          -4
          What kind of stream of consciousness? Who is Putin's master? Did you call Vladimir Vladimirovich lackey? For this article shines today.
          1. isofat Offline isofat
            isofat (isofat) April 2 2020 22: 21
            +4
            Oleg RamboverIs it really that they win in a dispute? Is that all you can do? smile
            1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 2 2020 23: 17
              -3
              Quote: isofat
              Is it so in a dispute win

              No, of course, they win the argument by argument. It's just that the subject of the dispute is not visible here. Do you want to debate on whether Vladimir Vladimirovich is a normal liberal and who has his boss? I honestly do not really.
              1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
                Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 3 2020 20: 15
                +2
                Ento. You do not distinguish between a loving freedom and a loving freedom master? Still, these are different individuals.
                Here I am for freedom. But not for the freedom of the Americans over the Russians, as the Moscow-based "liberals" are talking about.
                1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                  Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 4 2020 00: 57
                  -2
                  Is this what you are trying to convey? What kind of heresy is "freedom-loving" "freedom-loving master"? Have you met people who "love master's freedom"?
                  Liberalism, like other ideologies, is a system of views on the structure of society. The main issues of any ideology, roughly speaking, are the relationship between a person and the state (priority of the state or person), attitude to property (private, public), the structure of power (democracy, autocracy) and the national question (nationalism, internationalism). This is very rude.
                  And "loving freedom" "loving freedom of the owner" - this is ... I don't know how to call it, primitive, or something. Where did you get this?
                  1. isofat Offline isofat
                    isofat (isofat) April 4 2020 01: 25
                    +1
                    Quote: Oleg Rambover
                    Have you met people who "love master's freedom"?

                    Oleg RamboverThey are different people. Here you are, for example, why scribble letters? Everything is long over, good night.
                  2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
                    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 4 2020 10: 16
                    +4
                    My dear, put commas. Or the union "or".
                    There is a man who loves freedom. The true liberal.
                    And there is a man standing with a mountain for the owner's freedom of action. Kholui. Remember the movie "Scarlett"? Where does the master rape a woman in front of a servant? And the servant is completely indifferent to the rape. This is the type of liberals we have in Russia. Makarevichs, Sobchaks, Bulk. They even get paid for it. Various non-profit foundations.
                    Here you, personally, are outraged that in the tribaltics Russians are discriminated against for their nationality? They are deprived of the right to vote, the right to be elected. The Poles and Germans who came to us can vote and be elected, but the Russians born on this earth cannot.
                    And where is the guarantee that Western liberalism will not be distributed by Navalny and Makarevich throughout Russia? That is, the only ones who will be deprived of all rights in Russia under the liberal system are Russians.
                    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 4 2020 12: 41
                      -2
                      Quote: Oo sarcasm
                      There is a man who loves freedom. The true liberal.
                      And there is a man standing up for the freedom of action of the owner. Lackey.

                      But there are people who do not love freedom, saying - take me to slavery or serfdom? Or was Hitler not standing for his freedom from the West? And is he a liberal?

                      Quote: Oo sarcasm
                      This is the type of liberals in Russia. Makarevichi, Sobchaki, Bulk. After all, they even get paid for it. Different non-profit funds.

                      You talk about Sobchak, she is in the service, but the Kremlin. Staff jester.
                      Could you give an example of a holuy statement by Navalny or Makarevich? And at the same time - where, when, under what circumstances, the State Department brings them a denyuzhku. Oh yes, Navalny was transferred 50 thousand rubles from Spain.

                      Quote: Oo sarcasm
                      Here you, personally, are outraged that in the tribaltics Russians are discriminated against for their nationality? They are deprived of the right to vote, the right to be elected. The Poles and Germans who came to us can vote and be elected, but the Russians born on this earth cannot.

                      You watch less TV, I was in Narva six months ago, this is a Russian city with a Russian mayor. Something I didn’t notice that the residents burst from there to their historical homeland. In Riga, too, the Russian mayor. Yes, there was an outrageous practice of giving citizenship only to descendants of citizens of pre-war republics. There is domestic discrimination, which is bad (and where is it not?).
                      There are some restrictions for those who do not know the language, this is also bad, but on the other hand, it is difficult for me to imagine Russian officials or a deputy who does not know Russian.

                      Quote: Oo sarcasm
                      That is, the only ones who will be deprived of all rights in Russia under the liberal system are Russians.

                      You would at least read the definition of liberalism. For you, liberalism is a shortcut that has nothing to do with this idea.
                      1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
                        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 4 2020 14: 13
                        +2
                        Quote: Oleg Rambover
                        But there are people who do not love freedom, saying - take me to slavery or serfdom?

                        No. Such people say: "We are all thieves, but there !!! (aspirated)" - forgetting about the 4-century era of colonialism. Or: "You would have fought, grandfather, worse, now I drank Bavarian beer and drove a BMW" - without taking into account that the Germans sent only Russian and Ukrainian prisoners to the gas chambers. The Americans, the British, the French sat in quite comfortable camps, wrote letters home (via Spain and Portugal), received parcels from home, and ordered watches in Switzerland - while they were sitting, they would get so much wages at home!
                        Well, liberal human rights activist Novodvorskaya with her daily refrain "hang up, hang up, hang up commies", or the head of all liberals Trump with his "yes, we torture, and we will torture" really turned liberalism into a mask for the executioners.
                      2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 5 2020 02: 03
                        -2
                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        No. Such people say: "We are all thieves, but there !!! (aspirated)" - forgetting about the 4-century era of colonialism. Or: "You would have fought, grandfather, worse, now I drank Bavarian beer and drove a BMW" - without taking into account that the Germans sent only Russian and Ukrainian prisoners to the gas chambers.

                        Oh my god, among whom do you live? Are there really people in your environment who really think

                        "You would have fought, grandfather, worse, now I drank Bavarian beer and drove a BMW."

                        It seems to me that you came up with some kind of spherical leberal in a vacuum, you came up with some properties and thoughts, and now you truly hate the construct you invented.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        Well, and the liberal human rights activist Novodvorskaya with her daily refrain "hang up, hang up, hang up commies" ...

                        I don’t know what Novodvorskaya said there, but for the follower of the liberal idea, human life is the main thing, he cannot say that. If he says so, then he is not an adherent of the liberal idea.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        or the head of all liberals, Trump, with his "yes, we are torturing, and we will torture," indeed, turned liberalism into a mask for the executioners.

                        If you want, I will give advice on how to seem smart and well-read. For example, before you write "Trump, the head of all liberals," you google Trump, read that he is a Republican, if you do not know who a Republican is, see the information about Republicans there and find out that they are conservatives and Trump cannot be "chapter all liberals. " And at the same time, they would strongly doubt that he said "yes, we are torturing, and we will torture."
                      3. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) April 5 2020 08: 52
                        +1
                        Oleg RamboverDo you want to give your advice on how to seem smart and well-read? Learn, study and study again, then you will become well-read. Nature has dealt with your mind; you cannot greatly improve it.
                      4. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
                        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 5 2020 10: 34
                        +2
                        Dear, Trump Republican is the head of the most liberal country in the world. Where genocide defeated dozens of indigenous peoples. And his position about the death camps and the need for torture to ensure US security was openly announced back in the election campaign. And guilt is determined by a special troop of military officers. Well, pure NKVD!
                        If Hitler had won, and destroyed Jews, Russians, Poles with Serbs, he would also have become a liberal. For the Germans. And concentration camps were only a necessary means of achieving freedom.
                        As for people who consider Hitler to be holy, I met dozens of them. In Ukraine there are tens of thousands of them. For such people look at the world from the top of their convictions, and not from the point of view of Sergeant Lindy Ingland or Untersturmfuhrer SS Kurtz.
                        Yes, you simply do not want to know information that does not match your beliefs. Because you live in comfort and satiety, and are sure that it will not be worse. But worse, and much worse, it happens. When you turn up under the arm of an American sergeant.
                      5. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 6 2020 00: 01
                        0
                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        Dear, Trump Republican is the head of the most liberal country in the world.

                        What makes you think that the most liberal?

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        Where genocide defeated dozens of indigenous peoples.

                        Trump has a genocide? We still have people who survived the Stalin genocide, and so what? Is Putin to blame?

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        And his position about the death camps and the need for torture to ensure US security was openly announced back in the election campaign.

                        Link please?

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        And guilt is determined by a special troop of military officers. Well, pure NKVD!

                        This is interesting, can I also link?

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        If Hitler had won, and destroyed Jews, Russians, Poles with Serbs, he would also have become a liberal. For the Germans. And concentration camps were only a necessary means of achieving freedom.

                        Again, I advise you, before writing something like this, to read the definition of Nazism and fascism. You will not look pale then.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        As for people who consider Hitler to be holy, I met dozens of them. In Ukraine there are tens of thousands of them.

                        Where do you live? I have never met a single one in my entire life. I doubt that in Ukraine there are many.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        Yes, you simply do not want to know information that does not match your beliefs. Because you live in comfort and satiety, and are sure that it will not be worse. But worse, and much worse, it happens. When you turn up under the arm of an American sergeant.

                        I can say the same about you, you do not perceive information that contradicts your beliefs. In fact, the United States more than anyone in the last 150 years has helped Russia in all its forms.
                        Do you think that for those who fall under the arm of a Turkish sergeant in Kurdistan, an Indian sergeant in Kashmir or a Russian sergeant in Chechnya, everything is much better?
                      6. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
                        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 6 2020 17: 34
                        +1
                        Quote: Oleg Rambover
                        This is interesting, can I also link?

                        It seems useless to tell you about the US extermination system. As an F-1 fan of the World Figure Skating Championships.
                        You are an observer of PutEN’s bloody crimes: the construction of bridges, roads and ships? And the lovely Black Water entertainment on the streets of Baghdad is not in your universe.
                        Well, at least take an interest in why people cannot be freed from Guantanamo, which even the three stoned officers recognized as innocent. And the Americans send prisoners to prisons of other countries, paying decent money for receiving them - and already there they release prisoners. The leader is Serbia, she accepted 6 people from Guantanamo.
                      7. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 7 2020 14: 16
                        -1
                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        It seems useless to tell you about the US extermination system

                        If with facts in hand, with links, then it is quite possible. If just fantasies, then it's useless.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        And the lovely Black Water entertainment on the streets of Baghdad is not in your universe.

                        It is in my, as well as entertainment PMC Wagner in Syria.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        Well, at least take an interest in why people cannot be released from Guantanamo, which even the three stoned officers recognized as innocent. And the Americans send prisoners to prisons of other countries, paying decent money for receiving them - and already there they release prisoners. The leader is Serbia, she accepted 6 people from Guantanamo.

                        Because US intelligence agencies cannot break the law in the US and they have to dodge?
                      8. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
                        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 7 2020 14: 34
                        +1
                        Quote: Oleg Rambover
                        If with facts in hand, with links, then it is quite possible.

                        Throw beads? laughing
                        Do you know how American justice differs from the rest of the world? The judge is charged with it. And the same judge is in charge. The accused must present evidence of innocence. But the judge can listen to this evidence, BUT NOT OBLIGATED. Therefore, a lawyer is so important in an American court, behind which stands an organization capable of crushing a judge.
                        And here you are pretending to be an American judge. Demanding evidence from others. But you are not going to take them into account. Just don’t give up a single gram of your beliefs.
                        Therefore, do not hammer into the search engine "Abu Ghraib", "Special troikas of the military" and other Blackwaters and Lindy England. Let the stupid truth-tellers throw pearls.
                      9. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 8 2020 14: 02
                        -1
                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        Throw beads?

                        How original you are! Have you come up with? What should I think about you if you give this as an argument?

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        Do you know how American justice differs from the rest of the world? The judge is charged with it. And the same judge is in charge. The accused must present evidence of innocence. But the judge can listen to this evidence, BUT NOT OBLIGATED. Therefore, a lawyer is so important in an American court, behind which stands an organization capable of crushing a judge.

                        Where do you get all this from? There is a prosecutor, there are jurors, it is written in the constitution that the accused is not obliged to prove his innocence.
                        I was not in an American court, but I was in a Russian magistrate’s court. So there, judging just acts as the prosecutor, and the accused must prove his innocence.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        And here you are pretending to be an American judge. Demanding evidence from others. But you are not going to take them into account. Just don’t give up a single gram of your beliefs.

                        Who am I pretending to be? Why did you decide for me what I am going to accept? Moreover, you have not provided one.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        Therefore, do not hammer into the search engine "Abu Ghraib", "Special troikas of the military" and other Blackwaters and Lindy England.

                        I was looking for all of the above. Only about the NKVD about special troikas. I understand correctly, the case of Lindy England and Abu Ghraib speaks of the bloody nature of the American regime, but the case of Senior Lieutenant Lapin (Cadet) and the Chernokozovo SIZO does not speak of the bloody nature of the Russian regime?
                      10. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
                        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 8 2020 15: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Oleg Rambover
                        There is a prosecutor, there are jurors, it is written in the constitution that the accused is not obliged to prove his innocence.

                        You are watching the constitution of the wrong country. And your horizons are surprisingly narrow. It’s as if you’re not listening to anything other than Navalny and Echo Moscow.
                        Do you remember that Obama banned Saudi Arabia from suing 11/11? Banned. But a county judge (like a district judge), hesitatingly, is suing Iran in this case! And the rationale - Iran will not be able to convince me that it did not participate in the September 11 attacks! And he awarded compensation to the victims of September 4, 40 billion Iranian money, which has been frozen in the United States for over XNUMX years. And since the law there is precedent, now Iran will be fined for any terrorist attacks. And the cases of Booth, Yaroshenko, a bunch of "hackers" from all over the world were stolen and convicted - and not for crimes, but for suspicion of NSA agents of the possibility of a crime!
                        Now, a fine to China for the coronavirus is planned. wassat China will not be able to prove that it did not release the virus. And a trillion in Trump’s pocket!
                        As for Lindy England - she was not condemned for the brutal torture and murder of the innocent. She was sentenced to 3 months for leaking photos of torture and bullying. After 2003 in YouTube, videos were massively laid out with executions of people in Iraq - to bravura and hard music, while in 2006 a ban was introduced on the discredit of democratization.
                        In three steps, I found Bush’s law on the establishment of triples. The Geneva Convention prohibits the application of a military tribunal to civilians, but the Americans do not care.

                        The term “competent court” is not defined in the law itself. It is defined in US Field Army Manual Section 27-10, in order to determine whether a person is or is not entitled to prisoner of war status, and

                        consists of a council of at least three employees

                        In addition, the term used in article five of the third Geneva Convention. However, the rights guaranteed by the Third Geneva Convention of legal combatants, expressly denied for illegal military combatants for the purposes of this Act under Section 948b

                        Despite the curve, automatic translation is understandable. The prisoners are not military personnel; therefore, the Geneva Convention does not apply to them. But there is no civil court at US military bases. Therefore, people can be imprisoned as long as necessary without charge.
                      11. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 9 2020 23: 59
                        0
                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        But a county judge (like a district judge), summing up nothing, is suing Iran! And the rationale is that Iran cannot convince me that it did not participate in the September 11 attacks!

                        And what is the fate of the lawsuits? Have you confiscated the money?

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        And the cases of Booth, Yaroshenko, a bunch of "hackers" from all over the world were stolen and convicted - and not for crimes, but for suspicion of NSA agents of the possibility of a crime!

                        Bout had a prosecutor -

                        https://aftershock.news/?q=node/496983&full

                        In his case, the jury made the decision, as I suspect in all cases involving imprisonment. So that -

                        The judge is charged with it. And the same judge is in charge. The accused must present evidence of innocence

                        - Again your fantasy.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        As for Lindy England - she was not condemned for the brutal torture and murder of the innocent.

                        I have already provided a link below, this is again a fantasy.

                        Quote: Oo sarcasm
                        In three steps, I found Bush’s law on the establishment of triples. The Geneva Convention prohibits the application of a military tribunal to civilians, but the Americans do not care.

                        Are you talking about this law?

                        https://www.newsru.com/world/29jun2006/bush.html

                        And in general, you talked about death camps. How much is currently in Guantanamo? How many are executed today? How much are in Abu Ghraib? How many are executed today?
                      12. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) April 10 2020 00: 49
                        0
                        Quote: Oleg Rambover
                        How much is currently in Guantanamo? How many are executed today? How much are in Abu Ghraib?

                        The United States leads in terms of the number of prisoners in absolute terms - about 2,2 million people are in jail. This is 25% of all prisoners on the planet (more than in the 35 largest European countries combined, and 40% more than in China), although the US population is only 5% of the world's population.
                      13. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 11 2020 14: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: isofat
                        Quote: Oleg Rambover
                        How much is currently in Guantanamo? How many are executed today? How much are in Abu Ghraib?

                        It’s nice of course that you worry about American citizens, but it was

                        about the system of extermination of people created by the USA.
  7. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 4 2020 14: 18
    +1
    Oleg Ramboverdon't be offended

    Against stupidity, even the gods are powerless.
  8. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 4 2020 19: 38
    -2
    Yes, how can you be offended.
    Better tell me, as a specialist in the history of Russia, returning to the millennium, the Grand Duke of Lithuania Gediminas, is he a Russian prince?
  9. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 5 2020 08: 45
    +1
    Oleg Rambover, and ... sausage fighter. This is reasonable behavior on your part. You again pull your sweaty palms to the History of Russia? I remember your statement that Russia is about 500 years old.
  10. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 5 2020 12: 45
    -1
    Repeat, "sausage fighter" has already staked out 321. Yes, the starting point for the creation of an independent Russian state can be considered November 11, 1480. So was the Grand Duke of Lithuania Gediminas a Russian prince?
  11. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 5 2020 12: 58
    0
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Yes, the starting point of creating an independent Russian state can be considered November 11, 1480.

    Oleg Rambover, do you understand that your mere consideration is not enough?

    History

    Due to the lack of historical sources, as well as the incompleteness of available information, it is impossible to establish for certain the origin of Gediminas.

    PS The nickname, "Sausage fighter", the liberals have earned in queues for sausage, back in the USSR.
  12. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 5 2020 15: 21
    -1
    Quote: isofat
    Oleg Rambover, do you understand that your reading alone is not enough?

    I understand, but you don’t give any counterarguments. You have nothing to say?

    Quote: isofat
    History

    I probably incorrectly put it, Gedimina was hardly an ethnic Russian. So you consider the first Russian ruler of Rurik, but he is definitely not Russian, and not even Rusyns. Or Stalin, with some exaggeration, he can be called the Russian ruler, but never Russian. Since in your opinion, was the Grand Duke of Lithuania Gediminas the Russian ruler?

    Quote: isofat
    PS The nickname, "Sausage fighter", the liberals have earned in queues for sausage, back in the USSR.

    You are plagiarizing, that’s not cool. I do not know how liberals are from the USSR, but won 321 instantly responded.
  13. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 5 2020 16: 44
    +2
    Oleg Rambover
    1. The official date of birth of Russia as a state is 862.
    2. November 11, 1480, the date of the liberation of Russia from the XNUMX-year-old Tatar-Mongol yoke.
    These two facts are the result of the work of Russian and Soviet scientists.

    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Yes, the starting point of creating an independent Russian state can be considered November 11, 1480.

    This is your statement, it is probabilistic - maybe it cannot, besides, you persistently hide the source of your conclusions, can you really? smile
  14. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 5 2020 22: 20
    0
    Was there any state power before? No, it was not, because those, first tribal, then military-trade, later feudal-agricultural associations, which we meet in Russia before the formation of the Moscow state of Ivan IV, were very little like what we call the "state"

    Pokrovsky Mikhail Nikolaevich

    Our antiquity does not know a single “Russian state”; it deals with many lumpy small states. These small states are called volosts, lands, principalities, inheritances, fathers' homelands, counties

    Sergeevich Vasily Ivanovich
    Here you have a Russian and Soviet scientist.

    It is difficult for you to answer the question, was the Grand Duke of Lithuania Gediminas the Russian ruler? I would like to hear your opinion.
  15. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 5 2020 23: 16
    +1
    Oleg Rambover, this "Cambridge History of Russia" in 3 volumes is a collection of articles and covers the history of Russia from the inception of the Old Russian state to 2000. Consists of 84 chapters in various areas (politics, sociology, economics, culture, military history, etc.) arranged in chronological order. 76 historians from the USA, Great Britain, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and Russia worked on the publication.








    This is a modern work of historians. See scans.

    PS Please do not send me your "scribbles" passing them off as documents that prove something.
  16. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 6 2020 21: 25
    -1
    Do you think that if the main events of history are written in English, then it becomes immediately more convincing? What is Western worship? I'm not saying that these events were not.
    Stressed yourself?
    By the way, look at the last line of your scans.
    1237-1240 Mongol conquest of Russian lands. Not Kievan Rus, not the state, namely the lands.
    And, by the way, note that in the scans you translated there is no mention of the Kiev state, but there is a Moscow state.
    Please tell me, does modern Ukraine also have a 1000-year history of statehood? Or Belarus?
    And yet, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the Russian Principality?

    Quote: isofat
    PS Please, do not send me your "scribbles" passing them off as documents proving something.

    I ask you, pathos less, as always, sit in a puddle.

    https://dlib.rsl.ru/viewer/01004143519#?page=18

    Why do you call the scribbles the work of the professor and rector of the Imperial St. Petersburg University Sergeyevich V.I.
    Or the head of the "Marxist historical school in the USSR" Academician of the USSR Academy of Sciences, Pokrovsky MN, buried in the Kremlin wall, by the way, was also engaged in scribbles for you?
    Judging by the brilliant investigation you conducted on the disclosure of my identity (from now on you receive the honorary title Inspector Gadget), these people are not suitable for you, but be lenient, they tried.
  17. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 6 2020 23: 04
    -1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Do you think that if the main events of history are written in English, then it becomes immediately more convincing? What is Western worship? I'm not saying that these events were not ...

    History is this science. Apparently, you are sure that you made a discovery. As expected from pundits - go, prove and get a patent for your invention.

    PS Oleg RamboverI hope you understand that they no longer want to talk to you?
  18. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 7 2020 13: 55
    -1
    Quote: isofat
    History is this science.

    History is a corrupt wench of those in power. This is clearly seen in the example of the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia. There are depicted Gediminas, Vitovt, Olgerd. Grand Dukes of Lithuania. Here is 100% sure you did not know about it. It is highly unlikely that they were Russian, and I doubt that they knew Russian, that the faiths were not Orthodox or abandoned it. We must see how many times they fought with the Moscow principality.

    Quote: isofat
    Apparently, you are sure that you made a discovery. As expected from pundits - go, prove and get a patent for your invention.

    I gave you the opinion of a historian and lawyer. Do you want to give an opinion of a modern historian? What makes you think that I think I made a discovery, I don’t suffer from megalomania.

    Quote: isofat
    PS Oleg Rambover, I hope you understand that they no longer want to talk to you?

    Yes please. It seems that you are not offended, at least not more than you are me. So you have nothing to say?
    This question, about Old Russian statehood, is debatable in historical circles. You could find the opposite opinion of historians, but you could not.
    Hamsters alone, a few words can’t say, knowledge is zero.
    Learn from 123.
  19. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 7 2020 15: 06
    0
    Oleg Rambover, in 1862, exactly 1000 years of the statehood of Russia were celebrated. Alexander II to this date ordered to open the monument, which was done. The monument stands in Veliky Novgorod. And today in the Russian Federation, as many years ago, they agree to consider 862 the year of the birth of the statehood of Russia.

    And you do not agree ... and drag your "scribbles" to the site. I want to note to you that before the official point of view on the date of birth of our state prevailed (won), scientists put forward different versions, their proposals, objections, etc. remained in the archives. etc.

    Your "scribbles" that you pass off as proof are from there.

    Calm down, Mr. Liberal, pull yourself together.
  20. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 8 2020 13: 34
    -1
    Quote: isofat
    And today in the Russian Federation, as many years ago, they agree to consider 862 the year of the birth of the statehood of Russia.

    Someone agrees, some do not, later I will give the opinion of the modern historian.

    Quote: isofat
    And you do not agree ... and drag your "scribbles" to the site. I want to note to you that before the official point of view on the date of birth of our state prevailed (won), scientists put forward different versions, their proposals, objections, etc. remained in the archives. etc.

    Your "scribbles" that you pass off as proof are from there.

    The quotes I have quoted are written much later than 1862.

    Quote: isofat
    Calm down, Mr. Liberal, pull yourself together.

    I am calm. You, in my opinion, are reacting too emotionally to an innocent argument.
  21. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 8 2020 14: 57
    -1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Someone agrees, some do not, later I will give the opinion of a modern historian

    Oleg RamboverYou have long lost the argument. You are now trying to prove that you are not so stupid as it might seem. smile
  22. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 9 2020 14: 52
    0
    Here is a modern historian.

    https://youtu.be/QV9KX2daATg

    Quote: isofat
    you have long lost the argument.

    That is, you provided an inscription on the monument and believes that you won the dispute? Ok, we won. Who am I to dissuade you. Blessed is he who believes.

    Quote: isofat
    You are now trying to prove that you are not so stupid as it might seem.

    Well, after your grand investigation into revealing my identity, where am I to you.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 9 2020 17: 01
    +1
    Oleg Rambover. Nowhere is it called into question that 862 is the year of the birth of Russian statehood.
    The history of the formation (development) of our state over a certain period is discussed, as is customary among historians. Let them further study, people will get acquainted with the facts of our history.

    PS If they wanted to explicitly question the above date, they did not dare to do so. smile
  25. plabu Offline plabu
    plabu April 5 2020 13: 05
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Repeat, the "sausage fighter" has already staked out 321 ...

    This was written by someone who feeds himself and his family with everyones ... - Well, write, you are more interested in questions of the history of Russia than in what to feed your loved ones. hi
    PS As for the "sausage fighters", everyone has already written to you - they fought for their der ... cracy, so eat it now, in full ...
  • isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 2 2020 22: 33
    +2
    Oleg Ramboverlet me teach you logic, huh?
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 2 2020 23: 19
      -3
      Are we already on you? Come on, give it a try.
      1. isofat Offline isofat
        isofat (isofat) April 2 2020 23: 47
        +4
        1. The liberal is a loving freedom. Oleg Rambover - a liberal.
        2. Loving the liberty of the master, but for money - lackey.

        Quote: Oleg Rambover
        What kind of stream of consciousness? Who is Oleg Rambover mister? Did you call Oleg Rambover lackey? For this article shines today.

        Is there any reason to consider you a lackey?
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 3 2020 13: 45
          -3
          Are you seriously? Oh May year! You opened my eyes! And then I did not immediately understand that the respected Oy Sarcasm, according to the good old cheers-patriotic tradition, decided to abuse.

          You upset me. Are you really impressed by this, let's face it, not very smart opus of Oy Sarcasm? When you wrote me a brief cryptic comment that my knowledge of history is none, I had the false impression that your knowledge was vast and the hope flared up that I found an interesting conversationalist. But as Chernomyrdin said, this has never happened and here again. IMHO Brief comments are given to you much better.
          1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
            Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 3 2020 20: 20
            +3
            You really have no knowledge. Only the belief that somewhere there, far beyond the borders of Russia, people live, baking cookies to make Russians happy. In exchange for factories, land, bowels. But this is an insignificant fee for democratic cookies, isn't it?
            1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 4 2020 01: 02
              -2
              What a beautiful primitive world you live in. Everything is so simple in it. As I understand it, is it pointless to ask for my quote, where I give the factories for cookies?
              1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
                Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 4 2020 10: 26
                +3
                So why is Putin not pleasing to the "free world" that has built death camps in Europe? Precisely because it does not allow people to be processed into corpses freely. He wrestled Sakhalin, presented to Shell by Yeltsin. He did not allow the construction of the largest concentration camp in the world in Crimea. Does not contain Ukraine and Georgia, leased for 50 years by the US Vice President.
                You are unhappy with this order of things. You need everything to be like in America: the owners are Anglo-Saxons, the indigenous people are on reservations.
              2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 4 2020 13: 06
                -2
                Quote: Oo sarcasm
                So why is Putin not pleasing to the "free world" that has built death camps in Europe? Precisely because it does not allow people to be processed into corpses freely. He wrestled Sakhalin, presented to Shell by Yeltsin. He did not allow the construction of the largest concentration camp in the world in Crimea. Does not contain Ukraine and Georgia, leased for 50 years by the US Vice President.

                Where do you get all this from? What corpses, what death camps? What are you talking about?
                Let's try it in your manner.
                Google how much territory was given under Yeltsin and Putin.
                How many under Putin were stolen and taken to the West by his close associates? It destroys the country, deprives it of the future. Putin imagines himself a king for whom a constitution has not been written. Those who support Putin for free, have servile consciousness, those who pay for the money are Putin lackeys.
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 4 2020 23: 14
                -2
                What? What is December 2? Ah, got it. With non-stupid investigators like you, nothing is scary. You cannot even distinguish Oleg Rambler from Oleg Rambover.
            2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
              Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 4 2020 14: 28
              +3
              Quote: Oleg Rambover
              Where do you get all this from? What corpses, what death camps? What are you talking about?

              Here. Guantanomo, Abu Ghraib, Diego Garcia, Al Tamara, Antavilyay, Polish Quartz.
              If you do not want to know that from the point of view of the Anglo-Saxons, you are only a useless Indian, then do not know. Fight for your rank of subhuman.
            3. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 5 2020 00: 12
              -2
              Quote: Oo sarcasm
              Here. Guantanomo, Abu Ghraib, Diego Garcia, Al Tamara, Antavilyay, Polish Quartz.

              And what, are death camps like Auschwitz? And how many people are destroyed there? And what, is worse in them than in the Russian police departments, where the suspects from the bottle in the anus die? Or was the Chernokozovo jail a resort compared to Abu Ghraib?

              Quote: Oo sarcasm
              If you do not want to know that from the point of view of the Anglo-Saxons, you are only a useless Indian, then do not know. Fight for your rank of subhuman.

              That's it, I want to know, and not live in captivity of my own or other people's fantasies, which have no foundation.
            4. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
              Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 5 2020 10: 14
              +2
              Quote: Oleg Rambover
              And what, are death camps like Auschwitz? And how many people are destroyed there?

              Since only one of the survivors of the prisoners is known to be Antivilyai, for which Lithuania, for violating human rights, was fined € 124 thousand, it’s hard to say. It probably goes to hundreds. In the case of Abu Ghraib, tens of thousands. Well, there is not a single ex-prisoner sitting in Abu Ghraib. And, judging by the photos of the pyramids of Lindy England, there were at least 100 of them there at a time.
              From the leaked, it is known about 7 Italians killed by Americans. Berlusconi brought the murder investigation to trial - and they ate him. During the reorganization of the prison, 50 prisoners were found in Daugavpils, who, as it were, did not exist - neither the names on the list, nor the court verdict, nor the time of imprisonment - there was nothing at all.
              As for the definitions, the death of an American student in a North Korean prison was presented precisely as death in a death camp, where prisoners do not leave.
              Here in captivity of fantasies, just you live. Fantasies about where there is a society of true justice. While any society is governed by sergeants. And God forbid sergeant Lidi England, as in the United States.
            5. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 6 2020 00: 44
              -1
              I honestly tried to find at least something of what you translated, I found only Linda Ingland. Can I have a link?

              Quote: Oo sarcasm
              Here you are living in a captivity of fantasies. Fantasies about where there is a society of true justice.

              I am captivated by the imagination that we should strive for such a society, and I know a little history and see that humanity is going to such a society. And for this, there are laws and institutions that bring them to life, so that such as Lidi Ingland or Senior Lieutenant Lapin (Cadet) receive a well-deserved punishment.
            6. isofat Offline isofat
              isofat (isofat) April 6 2020 01: 07
              0
              Quote: Oleg Rambover
              I am captivated by the fantasy that we should strive for such a society, and I know a little history and see that humanity is moving towards such a society.

              Oleg Rambover, you are an ordinary verbiage. What kind of "scribbles" did you slip into me, passing them off as documents?
            7. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
              Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 6 2020 17: 47
              +1
              Quote: Oleg Rambover
              and I know a little history and see that humanity is moving towards such a society.

              Looks like you know very little. For I see a completely different thing: Western civilization is moving towards Nazism: the titular nation represented by the United States, Bantustans and reservations of loyal nations (deprived of their own foreign and military policies), and unnecessary peoples whose extermination is not something immoral.
              Russia-reservation of the Yeltsin era got out of control, and moved into the category of unnecessary.
            8. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 7 2020 14: 29
              -1
              Read the definitions again. What is this movement? Humanity has never lived so well in history. There are no big wars, the problems of hunger recede, crime is reduced. Worldwide. The United States is also losing some of its sovereignty, they are dependent on China, on Europe. Even from the Russian Federation, judging by the oil. What nations are exterminated?
            9. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
              Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 8 2020 11: 25
              +2
              Quote: Oleg Rambover
              There are no big wars, the problems of hunger recede, crime is reduced. Worldwide.

              This is an information field, not a reality. Bush and Obama during their reign in Iraq killed more Iraqis than Hitler Jews. And in three weeks of Enduring Freedom - only 6 thousand. The remaining millions died just like that. Well, an American soldier wanted a beer, shot a taxi driver, drove to a bench, shot a shopkeeper, loaded himself with beer, came back, blew up a car - and went with a clear conscience to rest.
            10. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 8 2020 14: 21
              -1
              Again, where do you get this from? Hitler killed 6 million Jews. How many Iraqis are there? 38 million. You claim that every 6th resident of the country died? According to official figures, a little more than a hundred thousand died. The death of people is always bad, but this is incomparable with the losses in WWII. This is comparable, for example, with losses in the 2 Chechen wars.
            11. isofat Offline isofat
              isofat (isofat) April 8 2020 15: 12
              -1
              Oleg Rambover, and how many people can be destroyed so that your conscience is asleep?
            12. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 9 2020 14: 56
              -1
              Not how much, but yours?
            13. isofat Offline isofat
              isofat (isofat) April 9 2020 19: 58
              0
              Oleg Rambover, which is more dangerous for Russia - coronavirus or liberals?
            14. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 9 2020 22: 36
              0
              For Russia, the second of its troubles is most dangerous.
          2. isofat Offline isofat
            isofat (isofat) April 9 2020 20: 51
            +2
            The losses of the Iraqi civilian population during the war are unknown and cannot be calculated with sufficient accuracy. Published estimates differ from each other, usually by hundreds of thousands of dead. Some of these ratings are:
            • The largest figure was named by Opinion Research Business in August 2007. According to her, by this time the victims of war were from 733 to 158 Iraqi civilians. In January 2008, these figures were adjusted based on additional data and ranged from 946 to 000 dead.
            • According to the Iraq Body Count project, as of December 12, 2008, 89 to 612 civilians were killed in Iraq. This figure is very underestimated, as it is based solely on media reports.
            • According to a study by the Iraqi Ministry of Health for the World Health Organization, civilian casualties from the start of the war until June 2006 range from 104 to 000.
          3. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 9 2020 22: 37
            0
            https://news.un.org/en/story/2008/01/245322-151000-iraqis-died-violent-deaths-three-years-after-2003-invasion-un-study
          4. isofat Offline isofat
            isofat (isofat) April 9 2020 23: 00
            0
            Oleg Ramboverwhy did you finish counting the victims of 2006?

            Although the last coalition troops were withdrawn in December 2011, employees of private military and security companies remained in Iraq (2013 as of March 5500)

            Those. the war ended only in 2013.

            Do not forget the people mutilated by the war. Yes, but this is not the only place where the United States killed people, do you agree?
          5. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 11 2020 14: 46
            -1
            Quote: isofat

            Those. the war ended only in 2013.

            Ok, how many died by 2013? You also gave estimates before 2007.

            Quote: isofat
            Do not forget the people mutilated by the war. Yes, but this is not the only place where the United States killed people, do you agree?

            Once again, I said that people in military conflicts are now dying much less than in the first half of the 20th century (and even in the second) and this is a positive trend.
  • Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 8 2020 15: 19
    +2
    Official data of whom? Americans are legally prohibited from counting dead civilians. They bombed the market, the commandos loaded the corpses, took them out, and buried them in the sea. For BlackWater there are only 14 dead - on the square in Baghdad. Just because the shooting hit the video. But unofficially for all PMCs - 100 thousand in 10 years. The shooting of journalists by Franz Press, and followed by ambulance, the Americans have not recognized until now, despite the video of the shooting from a military helicopter posted on Wikileaks.
    And the words of the pilot: "There was a child ... Okay, they are to blame."
    So, comrade, do not find yourself guilty at home. tongue
  • Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 9 2020 15: 19
    -1
    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    Official data of whom?

    WHO

    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    Americans are legally prohibited from counting dead civilians.

    Can I link to the law?

    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    But unofficially for all PMCs - 100 thousand in 10 years.

    Unofficially, a lot of things are also said about Chechnya, but we will not believe in it.

    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    The shooting of journalists by Franz Press, and followed by ambulance, the Americans have not recognized until now, despite the video of the shooting from a military helicopter posted on Wikileaks.

    AND? The shooting of a Dutch journalist in Gori in 2008, what should I talk about?

    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    And the words of the pilot: "There was a child ... Okay, they are to blame."

    Well, probably some kind of fake.
    What are we talking about? People make mistakes, or even crimes. Why is it terrible for you if the Americans are doing this, if the Russians are doing the same, is this normal?
  • isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 9 2020 17: 53
    0
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Well, probably some kind of fake.

    Not everyone will survive. How the U.S. deals with civilians during the invasion

    MOSCOW, July 30 - RIA Novosti, Nikolai Protopopov. The country wiped out and ten million dead - in Afghanistan continue to be indignant at the provocative attack of Donald Trump, who said that the US army is able to win the protracted war in a week, but does not want to make too many casualties among the population. However, the Americans are silent about the fact that during the invasion of other countries they did not spare hundreds of thousands of civilians. About the bloodiest wars for democracy - in the material of RIA Novosti.

    Source - https://ria.ru/20190730/1556967756.html
  • Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 9 2020 22: 34
    0
    Quote: isofat
    Not everyone will survive. How the U.S. deals with civilians during the invasion

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/20120204_afghan_civilians_deaths.pdf

    It says here that in 2011, out of 3021 Afghan dead at the hands of anti-government forces, 2322 died, 410 at the hands of pro-government forces and the forces of the international coalition.
    And I want to remind you that the USSR during the Second World War lost about 17 thousand people a day.
    This is what the information looks like:

    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2498961.html

    http://afghanistan.ru/doc/57360.html

    And what you provided is propaganda. And at the same time:

    http://blog.zaotechestvo.ru/2010/01/16

    War is always bad; it is always the death of civilians.
    Americans are annoying with their missionary work. Democracy cannot be imagined in Afghanistan or Iraq. Their methods are crude, sometimes criminal. The methods of others who conduct military operations are no better.
  • isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 9 2020 23: 26
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Americans annoy missionary

    Oleg RamboverDo not annoy. If they annoyed, then there was no conversation! The US is killing! Kill in huge quantities.
  • Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 11 2020 14: 28
    -1
    Quote: isofat
    If they annoyed, then there was no conversation! The US is killing! Kill in huge quantities.

    OK. They kill, and it’s bad and criminal. Dear Oyo Sarkazmi claimed that the losses are comparable with the times of WWII, but this is a lie.
    PS Do you also condemn the operation of the Russian Armed Forces in Syria? After all, the local population also perishes from Russian bombs and missiles.
  • Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 9 2020 18: 01
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    The shooting of a Dutch journalist in Gori in 2008, what should I talk about?

    That Georgians drenched everyone in a row? There were no Russian troops in Gori. 2 bombs were dropped on the city, one exploded 50 meters from the apartment building. There were no casualties.
    If you are interested in the law, dig the Lindy England case. She just got caught for "disclosure and discrediting".
  • Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 9 2020 22: 04
    0
    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    What Georgians drenched everyone in a row? There were no Russian troops in Gori. 2 bombs were dropped on the city, one exploded 50 meters from the apartment building.

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/1010911

    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    If you are interested in the law, dig the Lindy England case. She just got caught for "disclosure and discrediting".

    This is again your imagination, she was convicted of mockery of prisoners.

    https://www.gazeta.ru/2005/09/28/oa_172254.shtml

    https://www.times-news.com/england-back-in-mineral-county/article_5919dee3-e19a-50c4-8ac8-f9c7b408c07d.html

    Read this:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/
  • Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 9 2020 22: 40
    0
    Link lost, type the Stanford prison experiment.
  • isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) April 9 2020 23: 32
    0
    Oleg Rambover, start your comment with the user's nickname, so it will be clear who you are contacting. When there are many comments, you can skip and not answer, and this is impolite.
  • Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 10 2020 15: 01
    0
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    This is again your imagination, she was convicted of mockery of prisoners.

    She was convicted precisely for disclosing the facts of bullying of prisoners. If you didn’t get the photo on the Internet, she wouldn’t have anything.
    Just as with the Lithuanian prisoner Antivilya - one survived - for one they were fined. Very Stalinist: no man - no problem. laughing
  • Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 10 2020 23: 53
    -1
    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    She was convicted precisely for disclosing the facts of bullying of prisoners. If you didn’t get the photo on the Internet, she wouldn’t have anything.

    But Chikatilo was not convicted of murder, but because he carried a knife in briefcases? If he hadn’t worn, he had nothing? What is written in the sentence? The rest is all fantasy.

    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    Just as with the Lithuanian prisoner Antivilya - one survived - for one they were fined. Very Stalinist: no man - no problem.

    It is not Stalinist to allow a prisoner to sue his jailers.
    Finally found:

    https://www.newsru.com/world/21oct2009/lituaniacia.html

    What makes you think that the other seven prisoners in this prison were executed? And is this, in your opinion, a death camp comparable to the Nazi?
  • Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 11 2020 19: 50
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    What makes you think that the other seven prisoners in this prison were executed? And is this, in your opinion, a death camp comparable to the Nazi?

    Keeping a person in custody without charge, without legal arrest, without a lawyer, torture him - did Dr. Mengele act differently?
    It doesn't matter how many people were detained and tortured. This is a crime against humanity.
    By the way, the Americans were caught kidnapping and killing 7 Italians. Under Berlusconi, a trial was held in absentia, the participants in the murder were identified and sentenced to terms from 7 to 21 years. Now all those sentenced are at large. They have diplomatic passports and visit Europe.
    Not a single EU country declared them even persona non grata.
    This is to the fact that in Europe they understand who their boss is. It is not without reason that the Prosecutor General Carla del Ponte, right in front of the television cameras, stated that the Serbs were going to the Hague Tribunal - the United States is beyond jurisdiction, beyond jurisdiction, beyond jurisdiction !!!
    Which did not save her from exile in Argentina. And the obedient Japanese became the prosecutor general. Which claims from the Serbs just will not accept.
  • Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Rambover) April 13 2020 00: 44
    -1
    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    Keeping a person in custody without charge, without legal arrest, without a lawyer, torture him - did Dr. Mengele act differently?

    This is certainly bad, I wonder how prisoners without a lawyer file complaints with the courts? Dr. Mengele conducted inhuman experiments on people, thousands of people died at his hands, yes, in a different way.

    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    It doesn't matter how many people were detained and tortured. This is a crime against humanity.

    I completely agree, I hope you also condemn such practice in the Chernokozovo pre-trial detention center?

    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    By the way, the Americans were caught kidnapping and killing 7 Italians. Under Berlusconi, a trial was held in absentia, the participants in the murder were identified and sentenced to terms from 7 to 21 years.

    You can link, it’s interesting.

    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    It is not without reason that the Prosecutor General Carla del Ponte, right in front of the television cameras, stated that the Serbs were going to the Hague Tribunal - the United States is beyond jurisdiction, beyond jurisdiction, beyond jurisdiction !!!

    Searched, did not find such a video, can I link?
  • Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) April 13 2020 11: 31
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    You can link, it’s interesting.

    Well, it’s very difficult to mess with information 11 years ago. One of the similar is this:

    https://www.km.ru/glavnoe/2007/02/17/arkhiv/v-italii-proidet-sud-nad-amerikanskimi-agentami-tsru

    However, the one that I remember, the leader was sentenced to a term of 21 years, the maximum before life.
    With Carla del Ponte, atas is generally the mid-90s.
  • Valentine Offline Valentine
    Valentine (Valentin) April 1 2020 10: 08
    +2
    Now there are times when one involuntarily ponders whether Joseph Vissarionovich and his associate Lavrenty Pavlovich were so wrong about what happened in 1937, and if it were not for these so-called "repressions", it would be are our country and our people alive in that world whirlwind and the formation of world fascism? And now our liberals, amid hysterical screams and cries about some rights to "democratic values" and foreign money, are trying to arrange a semblance of Ukrainian Maidans all over Russia, and Europe, which hates them, will gladly help them with "cookies" and tires. Russia since the defeat of the crusaders by Alexander Nevsky on Lake Peipsi. Mr. "Guarantor", it's time to take decisive measures against them, otherwise there will be a big trouble, such as we experienced on our own skin during their reign under Borka the drunk, if not worse. And determine, in the end, what state we are building, and where we are going, and whether our country will be a home for its citizens, or an evil stepmother.
    1. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
      Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) April 1 2020 10: 23
      +4
      November 25, 1938 Beria was appointed People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the USSR. Before that was Yezhov. Beria should not be attributed to repression. According to A.S. Barsenkov and A.I. Vdovin, with the advent of L.P. Beria to the post of head of the NKVD, the scale of repression fell sharply, and the Great Terror ended. He raked its warps, in particular, organized the development of nuclear weapons, pulling scientists out of the camps.
    2. Lieutenant Rzhevsky I April 1 2020 10: 36
      +2
      And were such repressions really such as the memorialists and other not very neat comrades insist on us. Indeed, the method of work of foreign agents, although briefly, but very accurately described one of them:

      Do not reflect, distribute!

      Surname to name?
      1. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
        Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) April 1 2020 10: 59
        +5
        So Ivan 4 (Terrible), in comparison with contemporaries from Europe, is not formidable, but plush ...
        1. Lieutenant Rzhevsky I April 1 2020 12: 10
          +4
          Wimp. The lighthouses of civilization in just one night how many were sent to the forefathers. We will not recall John the Landless and others. By the way, the pea jester is jealous of his fame.
          1. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
            Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) April 1 2020 13: 14
            +2
            John the Landless is considered to be one of the most mediocre kings of all time. The monarch made many political mistakes, and for military defeats he was awarded the nickname “Soft Sword”. Over the centuries, the reputation of John was never restored: not a single subsequent ruler of England ventured to give this unfortunate name to his heir. According to a common version, the king died of dysentery.

            A good idol for losers.
            1. Lieutenant Rzhevsky I April 1 2020 14: 58
              +1
              Compared to the modern Western "elite", he is the head.
  • 69 Offline 69
    69 April 1 2020 11: 57
    +1
    This is either an international scheme, or biological weapons of mass destruction were used, the nedohegemon ruined two skyscrapers for the pretext of fighting indefinitely against "terrorism" even among the penguins, if they are not stopped, they will ruin the planet.
  • Lieutenant Rzhevsky I April 1 2020 12: 12
    +2
    Someone heard about the economic program, except - Putin, go away! - these renegades?
  • Lieutenant Rzhevsky I April 1 2020 13: 24
    +3
    Here are some trolls screaming:

    Putin claimed to be a liberal.

    - as if not realizing that the article and my commentary are not about liberals in the Western sense of the word, but about a handful of people with low social responsibility, for some reason calling themselves liberals, about whose quality Fedor Mikhailovich spoke, and other decent people ... Well, we all know perfectly well the task of the troll, to arrange a shit, a meeting in the style of minced lemons. Mom taught me: "Son, do not argue with the bot. He is at work, and you are resting."
  • steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker April 1 2020 13: 26
    -2
    There is a simple and effective way how to deal with the "demshiza" in such a situation. When someone from this crowd gets sick, they must defiantly refuse to treat them. Death - it quickly puts brains in a row.

    Murder, like reins, must be controlled.

    If the government is interested in isolating citizens, then it is necessary to motivate citizens somehow at the government level. For example, to lower tariffs for communal services, gas, electricity, water, etc. But judging by the fact that only fines are being considered, the government is not averse to cash in on its citizens here. Our diaries were sent to a paid quarantine, but how to pay those who work for them? The government (like on a holiday) did not say ANYTHING about increasing wages in continuous production. And the government is proposing to punish ordinary citizens, but they are not going to touch the "blue blood", which has already "POINTED".
    1. albor.ru Offline albor.ru
      albor.ru (Alexander) April 2 2020 08: 08
      +3
      That's right. Small enterprises and hairdressers do not have working capital, and even with 2-3 hired workers there is nothing to pay them to the small owner ...
  • albor.ru Offline albor.ru
    albor.ru (Alexander) April 2 2020 08: 05
    +1
    which is more dangerous for Russia - coronavirus or liberals?

    Yes, neither one nor the other. Liberals, except themselves, no one listens. Sobchak quotes Venediktov, he quotes Aleksievich and Khodorkovsky, and so on in a circle ...
    As for the coronavirus, these are just command post exercises in the event of a bacteriological war of the future, because less than 3 infected with 000-2 dozens of deaths for the whole country of 3 million are nothing ... And the reaction is so hypertrophied that soon the number of deaths from fear and hunger at the stopped small businesses will 150 times block the number of deaths from the virus.
    1. Lieutenant Rzhevsky I April 2 2020 12: 27
      +3
      Quote: albor.ru
      Liberals, except themselves, no one listens. Sobchak quotes Venediktov, he quotes Aleksievich and Khodorkovsky, and so on in a circle ...


  • Rus Offline Rus
    Rus April 2 2020 08: 30
    -3
    Commentators calling for the killing or isolation of a percentage of Russians! You are sick! Everything.
  • steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker April 2 2020 10: 41
    -2
    Didn't they seem to KILL you? And your loved ones too? Good you! I was like that too, until I began to bury friends and relatives. And he miraculously survived, because I DIDN'T READ IT - I regretted it.
  • Jack clubs Offline Jack clubs
    Jack clubs (Eugene) April 30 2020 19: 42
    -1
    The leadership of the country and the capital, going to incredible tricks, is desperately trying to fulfill two incompatible, in principle, tasks: at the same time not to allow a massive, avalanche-like spread of the infection, and not to stop the economy, pushing us all

    Well what a nonsense! And the same thing is everywhere. Why is it incompatible? Well, what kind of level of thinking?
    All this can and must be combined. Timely isolate the sick. Conduct outreach. To work with the population is not like rams, but as intelligent people who do not want to die at all. To be honest. And much more can be written.
    And above all, quarantine for all moving, especially from abroad. Because of what it all began. And not a stupid ban, namely 14-day quarantine. And do not behave like a burning schoolgirl, but like respectable people - the government, the ministry, mayors, the president.
    And everything will be fine. But instead, you read everywhere what an awesomely difficult situation. You would be in the besieged Leningrad or tank factory in Siberia, working in the open field. Or laying rails under enemy aircraft fire.
    And here no one has died, and heaps are such that the stench has a greater risk of dying than the virus.
  • Winnie Offline Winnie
    Winnie (Winnie) 7 June 2020 08: 53
    -1
    The author, as an epigraph to the article, had to write two theses: lawlessness is legalized in the Russian Federation и The Russian Federation will never build a rule of law! Further in the text.