“We can repeat”: is the Great Patriotic War-2 possible today


Talking to the press, President Vladimir Putin said that Russia could “repeat” in the event of aggression against it. It was understood that, if necessary, the feat of the Soviet people would be repeated, at an incredible cost of defeating Nazi Germany.


It sounds menacing and patriotic, but for a moment we ask ourselves an unpleasant question, can we? Rather, is it correct to speak today as it was said?

The author of the lines has no definite answers, there are only numerous questions.

Today we paint the image of the West as an enemy. There is a very large share of truth in this, the western countries of Russia are generally hostile and take every opportunity to weaken and rob us. But this is far from the whole truth. For example, the same President Putin calls Western countries the partners of Russia. And this is also true: to whom do we sell our oil and gas? Mostly in European countries that are part of the anti-Russian military block of NATO.

It follows that the well-being of the Russian Federation and its population depends directly on the economic well-being of our potential adversary. We will bomb the rubble of the North Atlantic Alliance, while we ourselves will remain without petrodollars and gasdollars. This, of course, is exaggerated, but the general meaning is clear. Such is the grimace of globalism.

What about our, so to speak, “elites”? An attempt at the level of the Constitution of the Russian Federation to ban top officials of the country from owning property abroad ended in complete failure. It is clear that this is not about a rural house somewhere in the Belarusian outback, but expensive square meters in the UK, Spain, France, the United States and other prosperous NATO countries. That is, where, in theory, in case of war, our ICBMs should fly. By the way, in the same countries often live and receive education family members of this same "elite".

Let us ask a legitimate question: is there any conflict of interest here? Was something like this possible during the confrontation between the USSR and the Third Reich? How correct is it to draw any parallels between the Great Patriotic War and a certain hypothetical aggression of NATO against the Russian Federation?

Why would the North Atlantic Alliance even attack modern Russia? To take over our businesses? So they have long been bought up by Western investors. For example, in XNUMX we carried out a “reform of RAO UES”, which consisted in breaking up the country's unified energy system and selling its parts to foreign companies. Right now, before our eyes, the Anglo-Saxons have taken control of the Rusal and the energy companies of Siberia from the oligarch Deripaska. Now they are led by the real British Lord Barkley.

And nothing, nobody shouts something in the highest echelons of power about the occupation and the need for nationalization of enterprises. If the West is our enemy, then why was they allowed to do this in the Kremlin? Without any aggressive war of aggression, our national heritage passed into the hands of the Western elites. If this is a normal everyday event, then why should NATO fight with us and for what?

During World War II there was a fundamental clash of two polar systems in terms of meaning and content: hate Nazism and communism. The confrontation between capitalism and communism went into the Cold War. Then the question was, or they, or we, and the people in the Kremlin and the Oval Office were really ready to press the “red button”.

But today in the Russian Federation at the level of the Constitution a ban on ideology has been introduced, we are the same capitalist predator like the United States and all European countries, we do not differ from them for the better. Our enterprises are quietly privatized and come under the control of Western financial institutions. The Central Bank of the Russian Federation follows all the recommendations of the IMF. In the government, stick a finger to anyone, that liberal who professes Western values.

You can write an entire article comparing the military potential of the Russian Federation and NATO, who has how many planes and ships, tanks and guns, nuclear weapons and tactical nuclear weapons. But this does not make much sense until a clear answer is given to the question - why should the collective West, in the person of NATO, launch a full-scale attack on Russia like June 22, 1941? For what? The maximum that may be is a purely local conflict, for example, around Kaliningrad or the Kuril Islands. Will NWF be used in this case?

And if it happens that they attack us, and we again reach conditional Berlin and hang a tricolor over the conditional Reichstag, then what is next? Does modern Russia have a clear and understandable image of a bright future, for the sake of which it is worth throwing a breast at an enemy embrasure, so that after the war all survivors live better? There are no answers.
Used photos: kremlin.ru
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  1. Arkharov Offline
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 16 March 2020 14: 41
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    ... the western countries of Russia are generally hostile and take every opportunity to weaken and rob us.

    - But is this not a somewhat imposed opinion on us? It is possible that love somewhat diminished somewhat for us, but have not the entire power of the state and not only propaganda tried to affirm this opinion over the past 10 years? And in the world, everything is largely mutually and interconnected ....
    1. A.Lex Offline
      A.Lex (Secret information) 16 March 2020 15: 06
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      Is Russia again to blame for everything?
    2. Regis Offline
      Regis (Sergey Kopan) 17 March 2020 11: 04
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      What does "imposed on us" have to do with it? Western governments openly talk about "terrible injustice", according to which Russia got such territories and such resources, and they are ready to "fix" this injustice. Does this remind you of anything? Re-read Putin’s Munich speech. EVERYTHING agreed with her - both enemies and friends. The only thing that holds back the next campaign of the "united West" "for zipuns" is nuclear weapons. If not for it, then the war would have come to our land long ago. Now the war is already underway. It is not tanks, not artillery. Those who support Western "values" are those who were killed in this war or, worse, who are overthrown. I would like to recall the notorious "Dulles plan." No one saw its original, but not the essence, the main thing is that this plan is being implemented.

      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ - План Даллеса
      1. Arkharov Offline
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 17 March 2020 13: 17
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        ... such territories and such resources have been acquired, and they are ready to "fix" this injustice

        - credible quotes of "Western governments", please, better English-speaking, or with the correct translation? Just not in Constantinople and the newspaper Tomorrow?
        And you yourself can read that the “Dulles plan” is falsification, or rather, free fantasies of the author of a work of art. On top of that: in November 2016 текст The “Dulles Plan for the Destruction of the USSR (Russia)” is included in the Federal List of Extremist Materials.
        1. Regis Offline
          Regis (Sergey Kopan) 17 March 2020 13: 54
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          Read carefully. I did not say a word that the “Dallas plan” is pure and immutable truth. Or do you think I have not read my link on the wiki? It is only said that everything was done and is being done according to the provisions of this "mythical" document.
          However, the “science” story is a very funny “science”. Nothing prevents us from considering "our everything" to be a monument of ancient Russian literature, "The Word of Igor's Campaign", although no one saw the original. There is an expert opinion indicating that this is falsification and who could be the author, and yet ... However, we are not talking about that. As for the provision of links, then I'm sorry, I do not argue with you and I am not going to prove anything to you, since it is useless. If you are interested, then you can easily find them ...
  2. Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 16 March 2020 15: 15
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    The fact that capitalism in Russia does not in the least reduce the danger of conquest. You might think that there were no wars between capitalist countries. Another thing is that "repeat" will not work. No one will die for the wealth of others. This is contrary to human nature.

    You can discuss as much as you like "national property", "means of production belong to the people" ... Even if this is not so, now there is not even this fig leaf. And for the palace of Deripaska or Sechin, no one will die. You can forgive a lot. Even an unlimited term of presidency. In the end, no one overthrew Stalin from the “eternal kingdom” either. But betrayal is not forgiven. Let it be a stamp or an invention, but "For the Homeland, for Putin" there are few who want to lie on the embrasure. There are individual individuals. But mass heroism, I think, will not be.

    So "repeat" does not work.
    1. S.V.YU Offline
      S.V.YU 16 March 2020 18: 07
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      What if invaders come to your house? Will they take your property? Will your wife be raped? Anyway, you won’t go to fight for the rich?
      1. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 16 March 2020 20: 51
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        In this case, I will go to fight for my house and my wife. In World War II, everyone was equal. Examples of darkness: Children of Stalin, Mikoyan, Khrushchev. Kirov's daughter commanded a tank company. Now, only the lazy did not write about the children of our leaders.
      2. Arkharov Offline
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 17 March 2020 10: 29
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        Who's going to come? Are you raving Which of the appropriate countries in the 21st century need to fight for territory?
  3. 123 Offline
    123 (123) 16 March 2020 16: 22
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    Why would the North Atlantic Alliance even attack modern Russia?

    First, try to ask yourself why the alliance is developing a military infrastructure near our borders. After all, they do it, and why you do not understand. request If you do not understand the essence of what is happening, what are your thoughts on military potentials worth?

    But today in the Russian Federation at the level of the Constitution a ban on ideology is introduced, we are the same capitalist predator like the United States and all European countries, we do not differ from them for the better.

    Are you not comfortable with this situation? Offer to retrain in herbivores? Prefer to be a deer?

    But this does not make much sense until a clear answer is given to the question - why should the collective West, in the person of NATO, launch a full-scale attack on Russia like June 22, 1941?

    Your "roomy" views greatly limit your horizons. The "West" regularly observes the tradition, once a hundred years, or even more often, to go to the East.

    Does modern Russia have a clear and understandable image of a bright future, for the sake of which it is worth throwing a breast at an enemy embrasure, so that after the war all survivors have a better life?

    Reduce everything to ideology? In 1812, why did they fight? And your rotten morality is akin to Lukashenka’s, thoroughly corrupt, you give free oil - brothers, no, it means nothing. In the event of war, first ask who owns the enterprises? Maybe just prepare yourself an excuse in advance?

    Does modern Russia have a clear and understandable image of a bright future, for the sake of which it is worth throwing a breast at an enemy embrasure, so that after the war all survivors have a better life?

    I'm afraid you can’t afford to create such an image. no

    There are no answers.

    Not surprised. This is a typical situation for you. winked
    1. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 17 March 2020 10: 42
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      Prefer to be a deer?

      - The main thing is not to be a jackal.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Arkharov Offline
          Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 18 March 2020 09: 08
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          Are you to yourself?
          1. 123 Offline
            123 (123) 18 March 2020 11: 13
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            And you to yourself? smile
    2. Bitter Offline
      Bitter (Gleb) 18 March 2020 01: 40
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      In 1812, why did they fight?

      In 1812, the number of owners with capitals abroad was slightly different and the amount of foreign capital in Russia was also more modest.
      And the number of lawyers and managers and professional children among the people generally tended to zero.
      The military commanders in the army were different, were talented and those that were not very.
      The rank and file of the serfs were not particularly asked about the desire to serve when they were taken to the army.
      And they were not taken away for 6-9 months and not for three years.
      In the 41st, however, not everyone was in the same “trench”, although the level of education was higher, and almost no one had private property.
      But in the 91st, in general. They handed over without a fight everything that they had won in all previous wars and put a handful on top as compensation.
      At the same time, the people forgot to ask if he agrees to this scam of the century.
      Today is capitalism.
      Conflicts for sales markets, zones and spheres of influence, and so on over the little things, are guaranteed, but there will be no more war for annihilation as in the 41st. Raven crow ...
  4. Bulanov Offline
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 16 March 2020 16: 42
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    Not all at once. First, you need to deprive foreign citizenship of government officials at any level. And with further appointments, attention will be paid to the loyalty of these officials to the people of Russia in the form of the availability of real estate abroad by such officials and their immediate relatives. If the party appoints managers with such property, then this party will have less chance of winning the next election. And the task of rival parties is to highlight such disloyal citizens of the Motherland and thereby undermine the authority of a rival party. At least, this is possible if there is no censorship for such disclosures, or, let’s say so, informing ordinary citizens of Russia (the electorate).
    1. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 17 March 2020 10: 39
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      Here, just thanks to Navalny, who is doing this, to the best of his ability. There seems to be no one else really ...
  5. Stavr stavroff Offline
    Stavr stavroff (Stavr Stavroff) 16 March 2020 16: 47
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    Repeat ?! Hm! It may well turn out! We’ll be snoring again, probably to Moscow, as we have done more than once, and then, perked up, we will defeat the hated enemy !!! It was as if there were many who wanted to fight for the Red-bellied, after forced collectivization, famine in the Kuban, Volga and Ukraine, as well as after the genocide of the Slavic peoples of Russia first and foremost !! The people didn’t even want to evacuate, and they would hardly have found a place in Central Asia. But the commies of the Jewish spill successfully transported their families to the deep rear. Few people have the desire to fight again for the villas and yachts of the Sechins and the like. We need an amendment to the Constitution prohibiting not only top management of the country, but also their close and distant relatives to have accounts and real estate abroad, a residence permit, double or second citizenship! I'm afraid that such an amendment will not work! Wow!
    1. S.V.YU Offline
      S.V.YU 16 March 2020 18: 12
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      Do you actually know why Germany attacked the USSR?
      1. Arkharov Offline
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 17 March 2020 10: 44
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        And for what, in your opinion, tell me?
  6. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 March 2020 17: 48
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    Quote: 123
    I'm afraid you cannot afford to create such an image. There are no answers.
    Not surprised. This is a typical situation for you.

    Rude again? request
  7. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 March 2020 17: 49
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    Quote: Bakht
    But betrayal is not forgiven. Let it be a stamp or an invention, but "For the Homeland, for Putin" there are few who want to lie on the embrasure. There are individual individuals. But mass heroism, I think, will not be.
    So, "repeat" does not work.

    Thank you for your honest opinion.
  8. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 March 2020 17: 51
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    Quote: 123
    Reduce everything to ideology? In 1812, why did they fight? And your rotten morality is akin to Lukashenka’s, thoroughly corrupt, you give free oil - brothers, no, it means nothing. In the event of war, first ask who owns the enterprises? Maybe just prepare yourself an excuse in advance?

    Everything is fine with morality. But you, in my opinion, do not have it at all.
    By the way, in 1812, Napoleon did not have the task of destroying the Republic of Ingushetia, but only a coercion to peace on his own terms. And then the simple people fought not only against the French, but their "elites" got it. For all the good.
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 16 March 2020 23: 38
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      Everything is fine with morality. But you, in my opinion, do not have it at all.
      By the way, in 1812, Napoleon did not have the task of destroying the Republic of Ingushetia, but only a coercion to peace on his own terms.

      For you, maybe in the order, as for me - a rather strange morality. I would even say that you and morality are incompatible concepts.
      The war has begun, for a start we sit and consider who owns what, apparently, in your opinion, should the degree of participation in the war correspond to the social status of a person and be proportional to the value of the property?
      Then we carefully study the motives of the aggressor, if, as Napoleon does not set the task of destroying the country, is it not worth fighting?
      Why then stood on the Borodino field? After all, property stratification, and Napoleon only wants to force ... sad It turns out that your “morality” was alien to the people and the army in the 1812th year, and even later. They beat the Europeans in the tail and in the mane, without delving into their motives, and with the uniform distribution of property between citizens, although social justice was not all smooth then.
      Maybe tell us that Osovets rested solely on the revolutionary consciousness of the soldiers or was it possible to establish social justice in a single fortress?
      By the way, how will you assess the tasks of the aggressor? In YouTube, look what he is broadcasting from the rostrum? If I am not mistaken, Hitler threatened Russia to simply cleanse Bolshevism, he did not openly talk about total destruction.

      And then the simple people fought not only against the French, but their "elites" got it. For all the good.

      You probably studied the history of Fomenko with Nosovsky? Will you tell how the people fought simultaneously with the French and local nobles? By the way, again a contradiction, why did the people fight with the French? He didn’t come to destroy the country?
      PS By the way, I’m not being rude to you, on the contrary, I’m holding back, to be honest, you’ve got such a mess under the asterisk that you already need to knock out the dope with your stupid felt boots, everything is too started. hi
  9. Sapsan136 Offline
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 March 2020 17: 54
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    Mr. Marzhecki, it didn’t occur to you to think about why England and Hitler Germany fought, because Hitler was even sympathetic to the royal family (Duke Eduard Windsor) and did Rudolf Hess fly to him ?! Hitler was also popular in the USA ... But the hatred of the West for the Communists didn’t prevent (comrade) Yagoda from stealing wagons from the forest, selling it to the West and having a solid account with a Swiss bank ... There are a lot of things that you don’t even know about .. And the casket just opens - All these summer cottages are good for the time being, especially since no one considers their owners in the West, they limit their capabilities, not allowing them to influence the affairs of Western countries ... The West itself wants to influence EVERYTHING in the Russian Federation .. .. So, there is a conflict of interest, although it is not so pronounced ...
  10. steelmaker Offline
    steelmaker 16 March 2020 18: 20
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    The author correctly and logically discusses and poses absolutely correct questions - NOW. As long as Putin is in power, the West and its property in Russia are NOT at risk. But they understand what can happen after Putin. Our people remember the great history of their country, the Russians remember the genocide against the nation, remember the criminal privatization. The West understands perfectly well that if a ruler like Lukashenko comes to power in Russia, "everything that was acquired by back-breaking labor" will collapse !! You also have to answer! Therefore, military groups are strengthening at our borders! "The cat feels its meat is eaten."

    You don’t have to do anything to please the stupid
    We are a GREAT COUNTRY, we won in wars.
    By wealth and people, we are the first in the set,
    and under Yeltsin we were like an inscription on a fence!
  11. Valentine Offline
    Valentine (Valentin) 16 March 2020 18: 20
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    There used to be a brutal war of ideologies, and our Soviet people for the most part were brought up on patriotic ideals, on honor, on conscience, on self-sacrifice, on pride in their Motherland, because he created with his own hands this once powerful and legal the state, and now ..... now we are ashamed of the fact that we don’t even know in which system and which state we live, when all the natural resources, everything built by the hands of our older generation, are owned only by some 3 % of our bourgeoisie, and the remaining 97%, i.e. the common people eke out their miserable and miserable existence, and there is no other way to call it - a beggar - he is also a beggar in Africa, and not "living below the poverty line", and against the background of all this chaos, our rulers should think whether to repeat our people the heroism and sacrifice that he made 75 years ago, and the conclusion is obvious.
  12. Nikolay Malyugin (Nikolai Malyugin) 16 March 2020 18: 26
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    If we talk about an individual taken, it is unlikely that anyone will say what he is ready during the war. During the last war, cowards used to become heroes, and vice versa. So, the main thing is that society lays in the formation of man. First of all, hard work, and therefore self-discipline, was not the last feature during the war. Now those who fight for Peace are called contemptuously pacifists. By the way, they are not favored in the West either. There is something in common in this picture.
  13. Shelest2000 Offline
    Shelest2000 16 March 2020 18: 47
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    Is the Great Patriotic War-2 possible today?

    I just imagined how a political commander (now deputy commander for educational work with l / s) with a TT (crossed out) with PM in his hand raises his company in attack with the slogan:
    - For Putin! For the oligarchs! For the majors! For a dollar at 25 rubles !!!!! Forward! Hurrah !!!!!!!!!!
    It wasn’t even funny ... Until the Kremlin’s kids xxxxx together with rich dads and mothers spit on Russia and the people — what kind of patriotism can we talk about? What Fatherland are you talking about? Something seems to me that having received a weapon in their hands, in the case of a power supply, the first thing people do not lean against is the invaders against the wall. And the invaders ... Yes, they are already here - there, they are showing on TV every day, and some have been without a break for 20 years ...
  14. gorenina91 Offline
    gorenina91 (Irina) 16 March 2020 19: 13
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    What about our, so to speak, “elites”? An attempt at the level of the Constitution of the Russian Federation to ban top officials of the country from owning property abroad ended in complete failure. It is clear that this is not about a rural house somewhere in the Belarusian outback, but expensive square meters in the UK, Spain, France, the United States and other prosperous NATO countries.

    - Personally, I agree with this ... - But why go so far ... -already to the elites ...
    - When you read the site comments, it just takes horror ... - because they write military service (if we take age and gender); and they write such that it simply takes fear ... - after all, none of them served in the army; or somehow blabbed in some kind of "troops" and it is believed that he has served and is ready for state defense ...
    - So it’s even impossible to imagine that these people will be drafted into the army, and they (almost all) do not know how to do anything at all ... - they simply don’t have a single military specialty (or are simply supposedly classified as military “specialists”) ... - Who do these people hope for ... -on that someone can do something and that someone will do everything for them ???
    - Our guarantor promised that our hypersonic weapons will save Russia from all misfortunes .. but this .. to put it mildly ... - far from it ... - And any mess will immediately put everything in its place ... - Yes, at least, if you recall the year 2008 .., then much will become clear ...
    - I don’t want to frighten anyone, but putting minuses .. - this is one thing, but it is realistic to imagine what can happen (from one rake ... - to another rake) ... - this is completely different ...
  15. argo44 Offline
    argo44 (mac) 16 March 2020 19: 47
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    Zestaw bardzo dobrych pytań. Moje pytania: a jeśli Rząd Światowy istnieje w postaci ukrytej - i składa się z elit w poszczególnych krajach? Wtedy konflikt Rosja - Zachód byłby tylko grą służącą omamianiu łupionej ludności. A jeśli istnieje nanotechnologia pozwalająca podłączyć się pod człowieka - jak np. w filmie Saturn3 - i kierować nim? Porównaj - Matrix i CloneWars seria, gdzie robale z Geonosis wchodziły ludziom do głowy i wszyscy oni działali kolektywnie - sterowani z jednego miejsca. A może my żyjemy w postapokaliptycznym świecie, którym zarządza sztuczna inteligencja i która poprzez wieki usunęła widome ślady starej cywilizacji i teraz steruje ludzkością poprzez skaptowanych lub zdalnie sterowanych elit zgodnie ze swym skrzywionym niedoskonałym programem - jak w I Robot albo jak HAL 9000? Istnieje mnogość scenariuszy ...
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 17 March 2020 00: 01
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      The existence of an “elitist” group in individual countries is quite probable, we use the term “deep state”, but a unified world government hardly exists. The struggle of these “elites” over spheres of influence looks too natural.
      You gave a lot of examples from films, but they are not entirely clear, I doubt that everyone would watch them. The matrix, for example, was watched by many, but few people know CloneWars. Not that age category on the site to watch fantastic cartoons.
      1. argo44 Offline
        argo44 (mac) 17 March 2020 12: 10
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        "Elity" muszą walczyć o strefy wpływów, bo inaczej wyglądałyby nieautentycznie - ponadto owszem walczą - o narodowe strefy wpływów w sitwie i własne interesy w sitwie. Gdyby naprawdę byli wrogami i się nienawidzili - myślę, że swobodnie w ciągu 20 lat przewieźliby przez granice 100 nuklearnych walizek i ostatecznie pozbyli się wroga. To się jednak nie stało. Myślę, że wielu ojców ogląda filmy animowane razem ze swymi synami. Jeśli ktoś nie interesuje się treściami, jaki produkuje się dla dzieci nic dziwnego, że pozwala się funkcjonować takim rzeczom jak Świnka Peppa. Świnka Peppa to nic innego jak męskie genitalia z dorysowanymi oczkami i uszami - podobieństwo widać szczególnie u Taty Peppy, który posiada zarost ... A może ludzie witydzą się przyzikizią dzi penzią zizzi pen zi postzią zi postzią zi penzią zi penzi post zi postzi post zi postzi post zi post pen postć pen
  16. A.Lex Offline
    A.Lex (Secret information) 16 March 2020 21: 25
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    Auto RU:
    Then how do you explain the accumulating NATO forces on the border of the Russian Federation?
    Regarding the sale of energy: they BUY them, but I wanted to deflate them for FREE! Due to the worsening economic situation in the world, DRAM resources are the basis of a highly competitive economy. The fact that we (having these resources) is not competitive in the world is a separate issue. Almost all highly developed economies of the so-called The West does not have (or does not have in sufficient quantities, as we have) minerals for further successful prosperity, and indeed just the opportunity to survive in the next world redistribution. The main applicant for the redivision of the world is the United States. The world crisis that we have been in since the moment when the remnants after the assassination of the USSR and the world socialist system were "eaten up" is unleashing more and more. In my opinion, the GDP was not in vain shown weapons models not so long ago (especially since they were just being put into service with our army). This was a necessary step to prevent the attack of the coalition in the Russian Federation. Because No. I didn’t ride with Ukrainian territory and failed to set us up in Syria, most likely some serious provocation was being prepared "a la battleship" Maine "or" Tonky precedent. "Ameri nose blood needs another world massacre to develop its economy Why war? And because 50% of the budget is the military-industrial complex ...
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 17 March 2020 00: 05
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      It is unlikely that you will get a clear answer from this author. no It all boils down to the class struggle, they say, they sought to destroy the only state of workers and peasants, and all the invasions before the USSR were simply misunderstandings.
  17. Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 16 March 2020 22: 31
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    In general, FIG knows. Everyone is so tired of lying that we’ll give you teeth -
    (Fortunately, we are constantly being told how terribly bad everything is with the Sun in Europe, England, the Baltic States and USA).
    But repeat ??? In our country, the economy can’t cope with either Armata, SU-57, or the only aircraft carrier remaining ....
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 17 March 2020 00: 17
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      Everyone is so tired of lying that we’ll give it to the teeth - (good, we are constantly told how everything is terribly bad with the Sun in Europe, England, the Baltic States and USA).

      We are told how “we’ll give in the teeth” or “how bad it is,” depending on what opinion they want to inspire. Want to figure it out? Compare, analyze, there is no other way.

      ... but repeat ??? In our country, the economy can’t cope with either Armata, SU-57, or the only aircraft carrier remaining ....

      The industry can not cope with the “Armata”, look at the neighbors on the globe, who made the new tank of this level or higher, in what quantities it is produced. The same for the Su-57.
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 17 March 2020 06: 56
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        1) Alas, the truth is minus. It is much more profitable to throw hats.
        2) Tanks - everyone is too lazy to mess around.
        Aircraft - China, like about 20 pieces, has already released, is testing a light fighter. You look at it, it will start selling over the hill ...
        The rest just wake up. To drive the locals, they did not need him ... therefore, it doesn’t count ..
        1. 123 Offline
          123 (123) 17 March 2020 14: 21
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          Tanks - everyone is too lazy to mess around.

          Sly? Or do you customize to the right answer? lol
          If we compare, then honestly, and if they didn’t, it’s just laziness. Our planes won’t launch the series in any way - it’s bad, the Chinese won’t launch the series in any way, which means that they will soon be exported. belay And the rest, therefore, only wake up? If they say that Armata is being tested and there is no particular need for it, then they cannot, if the "rest" did not make a plane, then they simply did not need to. winked By the way, if you decide to compare with the Chinese, what is there about their engine?
          In general, grumbling is one thing, and adjusting the results to the desired answer is somewhat different. hi
          1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
            Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 17 March 2020 15: 16
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            These are all possible explanations. Projects for TV tanks were from the 70s. But do not go.
            That's all around and look at Armata: what will they come up with there? - and we'll wait.
            Fortunately, the promise 2000 armatures in the troops are not visible even on the horizon.
            And in Syria, Africa, Iraq, etc. tanks do not fight with tanks, not guns, but larger ATURs, rockets and land mines.
            What for spending loot and heavier tanks, when usually their tanks are already heavier. Everyone seems to say so.
            Upgrade trunks, shells, body kit - and come down. And like that - “we’ll do it, but without much haste. We’ll better develop robots.”
            By the way, we are doing the same with the T-90, T-72 and robots.

            About the Chinese engine: And the same as ours. There is something, and what is unclear.
            By the way, the Chinese in a small series, it seems, allowed.
            1. 123 Offline
              123 (123) 17 March 2020 16: 45
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              These are all possible explanations.

              Aren't you the same?

              Projects for TV tanks were from the 70s. But do not go.

              It all started a little earlier.

              https://1gai.ru/publ/523063-rannie-drony-radioupravljaemye-tanki-sssr.html

              the Goliath was still with the Germans.

              That's all around and look at Armata: What will they come up with there? - and we'll wait.

              The same explanation can be offered in relation to the Su-57, because the F-22 is no longer available, and the F-35 is generally difficult to call a fighter, an attack plane with subsonic speed. Can. expect what the Chinese and Japanese will do before launching a large series? I am not saying that this is true, I just give an example of how these “possible explanations” work in both directions.

              The benefit of the promise 2000 armatures in the troops are not visible even on the horizon

              As far as I remember, the first batch underwent military tests, "discovered" flaws, processed, an improved batch is undergoing tests. Nobody is hiding this. Before eliminating all the shortcomings, it is foolish to expect mass production. Do you think that these same 2000s should have been released only because they voiced such plans? And it does not matter that they are not finalized? Just because the man said - man did? Plans with reality do not always coincide. Something I do not observe on the horizon dozens of "Zumwalt" plowing the sea.

              And in Syria, Africa, Iraq, etc. tanks do not fight with tanks, not cannons, but ATURs larger, rockets and land mines.

              I do not see anything new in this. “Knightly” tank-to-tank fights are a rarity.

              What for spending loot and heavier tanks, when usually their tanks are already heavier. Everyone seems to say so.

              They make a new tank, strengthen protection, can’t do it with polystyrene, but the mass is increasing, but as far as I can remember, foreign tanks weren’t overtaken in weight, in my opinion, even easier.

              Upgrade trunks, shells, body kit - and come down. And like that - “we’ll do it, but without much haste. We’ll better develop robots.”
              By the way, we are doing the same with the T-90, T-72 and robots.

              So what are the contradictions? Already released tanks are being upgraded, robots are being made. You mean that Armat did not need to be done at all? I wonder why then appeared F-22? Could simply modernize old planes and not create anything new.

              About the Chinese engine: And the same as ours. There is something, and what is unclear.

              True? We launched into mass production

              https://aviation21.ru/dvigatel-al-41f1-dlya-su-57-zapushhen-v-serijnoe-proizvodstvo/

              What about them? And have they already learned how to do engines for the fourth generation? If they can’t fix this until then, but are they all right with the next generation? I doubt it very much.

              By the way, the Chinese in a small series, it seems, allowed.

              Is that about how we have Armata?
              1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
                Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 17 March 2020 19: 06
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                Very long. Uncomfortable to answer.
                1) ???
                2) Yes, I read. But it is rather a robot.
                3) It is not clear to you. F-35 - released already over 400, and continue.
                4) It is logical. So they are already looking at the 3rd generation of Armat, they are wondering.
                5) That's right. Therefore, they do not count on a tank-tank collision.
                6) That's right. I wrote about this and, clearly, not clearly. The armata is much heavier / larger than the T-90, and their tanks are also larger than the T-90. Accordingly, their counterpart Armat would be even heavier and larger. So what the hell rush?
                7) No. About the fact that what the same hurry with the analogue of Almaty, when their tanks and
                so by weight / size more space more, you can increase
                modernization. Like the T-90, in principle.
                8) "Engine of the first stage" ...
                The Chinese - the devil knows with 4m. did not attend. 4 ++ most likely not. But on
                the latter they are already putting their engines.
                9) Approximately. Armata was still supplied, it was not supplied to the troops.
                And these, either already, or not already, but pcs. 20 allegedly taken into service.

                By the way, IMHO, somewhere in the wrong we moved away in correspondence.
                Finish it?
                1. 123 Offline
                  123 (123) 17 March 2020 20: 33
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                  1. I mean that you also have “possible explanations”.
                  2. We drove through. This is not the point.
                  3.
                  It is not clear to you. F-35 - released already over 400, and continue.

                  So, besides the Su-57 all over the world they also produce F-35, that's all. Where is Japan, Europe, China? On the general background is not so bad. F-35s began to be developed back in Soviet times, I think the reasons for which the Su-57s began to be made much later. F-35, too, did not immediately start hundreds of riveting. Su-57 will not be built as much. The Americans have unloaded the financial burden on all of NATO, ours can only rely on themselves, and the larger the party, the cheaper and faster it will go. This says little about the state of industry.
                  4. ????
                  5. We drove through. Not the crux of the matter.
                  6. And who is in a hurry? This is what you demand by "tomorrow morning" to put 2000 tanks into operation.
                  7.
                  Not. About the fact that what for is still in a hurry with the analogue of Almaty, when their tanks are already bigger in weight / size, there is more space, you can increase
                  modernization. Like the T-90, in principle.

                  Is the main size and weight in the tank? The bigger, the better? And then you can upgrade? I understand correctly? belay And what kind of modernization will they carry out? Will dope be developed for charging "African-Americans"?
                  8.
                  The Chinese - the devil knows from 4 m. Did not follow. 4 ++ most likely not. But on
                  the latter they are already putting their engines.

                  The question is what quality are these engines?
                  9. Does this mean that the Chinese have no industry?

                  By the way, IMHO, somewhere in the wrong we moved away in correspondence.
                  Finish it?

                  Apparently, yes. hi
                  1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
                    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 18 March 2020 00: 08
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                    3) China is, all 3 territories are already developing new ones.
                    6) This is the promise of the MO of some year. I personally will not have a single one.
                    7) Not at all.
                    8) Unknown. Presumably worse. But recently, there were none at all, and after 5 years the engines will be as they should. Some things have already caught up ....
                    1. 123 Offline
                      123 (123) 18 March 2020 02: 08
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                      China is, all 3 territories are already developing new ones.

                      They are all developing, they are already releasing with us, and what about problems with industry? I understand correctly?

                      This is the promise of the MO of some year. I personally will not have a single one.

                      Do you again repeat the trials about the absence of the Zumwaltes, or do you insist on observing the principle "the man said, the man did"?

                      Not at all like that.

                      But as?

                      Unknown Presumably worse. But recently, there were none at all, and in 5 years the engines will be as they should. Some things have already caught up ....

                      Maybe then in 5 years we will talk about a full-fledged fifth-generation Chinese aircraft?
                      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline
                        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 18 March 2020 08: 34
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                        1) No
                        2) Do not repeat))). "Man ... did" clearly does not apply to the authorities.
                        It seems that was the case with the "shadow" world, and only for its own.
                        3) approx. Although, if you follow this logic, then about the SU-57, too, in five years.
          2. A.Lex Offline
            A.Lex (Secret information) 17 March 2020 16: 17
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            123, so he did not answer anything intelligible about aircraft engines ...
            1. 123 Offline
              123 (123) 17 March 2020 16: 53
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              123, so he did not answer anything intelligible about aircraft engines ...

              Not sure if he read the question, written 15 minutes ago.
              1. A.Lex Offline
                A.Lex (Secret information) 17 March 2020 17: 13
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                Yes, he answered my past questions as if he had either not read them, or ... he did not understand at all what they were asking him about! I ask him a question - WHY do they cover us with bases, why are the exercises at the borders, endless sanctions, information war ... And he told me - "Kaliningrad ... Kuril Islands ..." ............ ..... in general, I have a feeling that we are talking about different things with him and he persistently tries to avoid direct answers to direct questions ...
                1. 123 Offline
                  123 (123) 17 March 2020 17: 15
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                  ... tries to avoid direct answers to direct questions ...

                  Usually this is done when there are no direct answers.
  18. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 March 2020 06: 56
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    Quote: 123
    Everything is fine with morality. But you, in my opinion, do not have it at all.
    By the way, in 1812, Napoleon did not have the task of destroying the Republic of Ingushetia, but only a coercion to peace on his own terms.
    For you, maybe in the order, as for me - a rather strange morality. I would even say that you and morality are incompatible concepts.
    The war has begun, for a start we sit and consider who owns what, apparently, in your opinion, the degree of participation in the war should correspond to the social status of a person and be proportional to the value of property?

    Do not attribute to me your speculations. I didn’t write anything like that.
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 17 March 2020 14: 39
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      Do not attribute to me your speculations. I didn’t write anything like that.

      Really? belay And where do you think I got this from? This is for you about Napoleon:

      Everything is fine with morality. But you, in my opinion, do not have it at all.
      By the way, in 1812, Napoleon did not have the task of destroying the Republic of Ingushetia, but only a coercion to peace on his own terms. And then the simple people fought not only against the French, but their "elites" got it. For all the good. Marzhetsky (Sergey) Yesterday, 17:51

      Do you need a screen?
      The second half of the article describes how control of Russian enterprises passes under the control of the "West" and the question is posed:

      Does modern Russia have a clear and understandable image of a bright future, for the sake of which it is worth throwing a breast at an enemy embrasure, so that after the war all survivors have a better life?

      You want to say that with the phrase:

      The war has begun, for a start we sit and consider who owns what, apparently, in your opinion, the degree of participation in the war should correspond to the social status of a person and be proportional to the value of property?

      Did I distort the meaning of your story? what
      You already there with your second "I" agree somehow. hi
  19. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 March 2020 06: 57
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    Quote: 123
    It is unlikely that you will get a clear answer from this author. It all boils down to the class struggle, they say, they sought to destroy the only state of workers and peasants, and all the invasions before the USSR were simply misunderstandings.

    Demagogy, the substitution of concepts and distortion, that’s all your comments, in fact.
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 17 March 2020 14: 25
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      Demagogy, the substitution of concepts and distortion, that’s all your comments, in fact.

      Accusations of demagogy and the substitution of concepts - that’s all your arguments. sad
  20. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 March 2020 06: 59
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    Quote: A.Lex
    Auto RU:
    Then how do you explain the accumulating NATO forces on the border of the Russian Federation?
    Regarding the sale of energy: they BUY them, but I wanted to deflate them for FREE!

    Firstly, I already spoke about the problem of Kaliningrad and the Kuril Islands. In my opinion, a local conflict is quite possible, but not a full-scale war in the format of June 22, 1941.
    Secondly, the anti-Russian military hysteria in the West is a feeder for American corporations living on defense orders.
    1. A.Lex Offline
      A.Lex (Secret information) 17 March 2020 16: 43
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      Hmm ... weird ... after reading your question:

      Why would the North Atlantic Alliance even attack modern Russia?

      I’m telling you about natural resources, and you tell me about territories ... Why do they need these meager chunks of land, if they are interested in what lies behind the Urals and in the south of the country? They themselves do not even need the EMPTY land (why then they do not occupy deserts in Africa? Are there lands in bulk there? Why are they crowded around Russia? Why are their bases concentrated on our borders?). Just look at the map and the questions disappear by themselves. Why do they conduct their teachings at our borders constantly?
  21. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 March 2020 07: 01
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    Quote: Sapsan136
    There are a lot of things that you don’t even know about ... And the casket just opens - All these summer cottages are good for the time being, especially since no one considers their owners in the West, they limit their possibilities, preventing them from influencing the affairs of Western countries. .. The West itself wants to influence EVERYTHING in the Russian Federation .... So, there is a conflict of interests here, although it is not so pronounced ...

    The West has long influenced everything in the Russian Federation, a couple of examples are directly given in the article. That's just you personally do not know about it. You have a fragmented perception of information.
  22. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 March 2020 07: 03
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    Quote: 123
    And then the simple people fought not only against the French, but their "elites" got it. For all the good.
    You probably studied the history of Fomenko with Nosovsky? Will you tell how the people fought simultaneously with the French and local nobles? By the way, again a contradiction, why did the people fight with the French? He didn’t come to destroy the country?
    PS By the way, I’m not being rude to you, on the contrary, I’m holding back, to be honest, you’ve got such a mess under the asterisk that you already need to knock out the dope with your stupid felt boots, everything is too started.

    With education and knowledge of history, everything is fine with me. And there is no mess in my head, unlike some readers to whom you are embarrassed by fragile minds with your comments. Do not be rude? Oh well...
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 17 March 2020 14: 55
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      With education and knowledge of history, everything is fine with me. And there is no mess in my head, unlike some readers to whom you are embarrassed by fragile minds with your comments.

      Really? belay Maybe tell us about the rise of the people's liberation struggle during the Patriotic War of 1812? If the "labor peasantry" struggled with their local "oppressors", an interesting picture emerges: Napoleon is at war with Alexander I and separately with the Russian people, Alexander I is at war with Napoleon and his own people, respectively, the people are at war with both emperors. In the light of this interpretation of events, general genius Kutuzova takes off altogether to an unattainable height. Fight with Napoleon’s army twice as large in numbers, fighting off his own people at the same time, respectively, without receiving support from him.
      I would be grateful for the opportunity to join the "sacred" source of historical information. Don’t share the link? smile
  23. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 March 2020 08: 03
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    Quote: A.Lex
    Regarding the sale of energy: they BUY them, but I wanted to deflate them for FREE! Due to the worsening economic situation in the world, DRAM resources are the basis of a highly competitive economy. The fact that in our country (those having these resources) is not competitive in the world is a separate issue. Almost all highly developed economies of the so-called The West does not have (or does not have in sufficient quantities, as we have) minerals for further successful prosperity, and indeed just the opportunity to survive in the next world redistribution.

    Must ask a counter question. And what does it mean, for nothing? How do you imagine that?
    We live in the cap. the world. If (God forbid) the United States succeeded in capturing Russia and its resources by force, then what next? It’s just that their owner will change, not Rosneft and Gazprom, but American corporations that will sell these resources for dollars to both American consumers and foreign ones. No charity. Where do you see here for nothing?
    Move on. If the question is a banal change of ownership, then why fight with a nuclear country because of this, having the risk of getting an ICBM strike? You can simply buy a share, all the more so since our oligarchs, closely integrated into the Western system, will not mind. Do the laws interfere? Will amend.
    1. A.Lex Offline
      A.Lex (Secret information) 17 March 2020 16: 49
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      So, in your opinion, is the Russian Federation so bad that it needs to be destroyed just like that? Given all my questions above, tell me - WHY DO THEY DO IT ALL (bases around the Russian Federation, teachings at our borders, endless sanctions, accusations of Russia of all mortal sins)?
  24. Regis Offline
    Regis (Sergey Kopan) 17 March 2020 11: 18
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    West develops the so-called predatory economy. Most of all I liked the answer of the guide in Pisa, to the question "what shisha did this all work for in the Middle Ages", the answer is that the mercenaries brought gold from the campaigns. Now another question, how does the Western economy come out of global crises? That's right, just robbery. We will not "dig" deep. Enough of two world wars. Now the third is approaching, but ... Here we have to say thanks to the Soviet authorities. If it weren’t for nuclear weapons, a coalition not of a “united Europe” but a “coalition of the entire Western” world would have come to us long ago. They have nowhere to go, in the long run they are economically inefficient. For efficiency it is necessary to rob someone. So it was with the robbery of America by Spain and England, so it was with the plunder of Constantinople, so it was in the First and Second World Wars. What will happen now? If Russia "lies" under all the "benefits" of the "Western" civilization, then the West will finally achieve its goal, which it did not achieve in the 1917 revolutions and the civil war. I will give only some statements by influential contemporaries.

    ... It would be a mistake to think that throughout this year we fought on the fronts for the cause of the hostile Russian Bolsheviks. On the contrary, the Russian White Guards fought for our cause. This truth will become unpleasantly sensitive from the moment the white armies are destroyed, and the Bolsheviks establish their rule throughout the vast Russian empire.

    Churchill V. (World Crisis. Chapter 12)

    Kolchak from December 1917 - British officer.

    “On December 30, 1917, I was accepted into the service of His Majesty the King of England,” he wrote to his mistress Temireva.
    He left the Russian Empire in July 1917, at the height of the 1st World War. “Missed” October for a year, and returned to his homeland in September 1918. By order of the English government. How to consider it?
    Which admiral, which fleet?

    The Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich Romanov, the Russian admiral (his wife was the sister of Nicholas II) in the book of memoirs, writes in the epilogue of his book (he died in 1933 in Paris) - as a kind of testament:
    "- Apparently, the" allies "are going to turn Russia into a British colony, Trotsky wrote in one of his proclamations in the Red Army. And wasn’t he this time right? Inspired by Sir Heinrich Deterding (British" oil king ".- Vadim Kozhinov), or simply following the old program of Disraeli-Beaconsfield (the most influential statesman of Great Britain in the 1840-1870s. - Vadim Kozhinov), the British Ministry of Foreign Affairs found a bold intention to inflict a mortal blow on Russia ... Performers of European destinies, Apparently, they admired their own ingenuity: they hoped with one blow to kill the Bolsheviks, and the possibility of the revival of a strong Russia. the holy struggle against the Soviets, on the other hand, was guarded by Russian national interests, but the internationalist Lenin, who in his constant speeches did not spare his strength to protest against the division of the former Russian Empire .. . ".

    The war for the independence of our country does not stop for an hour.
    1. A.Lex Offline
      A.Lex (Secret information) 17 March 2020 16: 51
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      Regis, only the author says that this is not so ... fool
      1. Regis Offline
        Regis (Sergey Kopan) 17 March 2020 17: 09
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        It is useless to prove something to the author. He is at work. Their beliefs and principles coincide with the customer or wallet. Here with the facts they have nothing. One verbiage.
        1. A.Lex Offline
          A.Lex (Secret information) 17 March 2020 17: 44
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          But it seemed, at times, that it was quite normal ..... sorry ...
  25. Rus Offline
    Rus 18 March 2020 20: 09
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    Complete nonsense! Let them fight themselves! Fighters.
  26. Nikolay Malyugin (Nikolai Malyugin) 20 March 2020 08: 48
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    If we talk about the USSR, then it was a completely different civilization. She relied on the Russian mentality. All songs only emphasized our disposition towards patriotism. Yes, in general, and Culture helped a lot. All these factors did not cause irritation among the people. Only a small handful of people who are now in first place.
  27. Rus Offline
    Rus 21 March 2020 07: 51
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    Here give birth to children and repeat the feat with them! Though exhaustion, even to victory!
  28. Alien on this holiday of life 22 March 2020 01: 27
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    Is the Great Patriotic War-2 possible today?

    The USSR was a serious country, and the current Russian Federation is a looted, resourceless, backward raw material colony with industry deliberately destroyed and science destroyed, from which trillions of dollars were brought to the West, with 2% of world GDP. There remains a nuclear weapon that will never be used, since children and stolen goods are stored in the West, if only for the reason of the physical survival of their loved ones.
  29. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 22 March 2020 08: 40
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    Quote: A.Lex
    So, in your opinion, is the Russian Federation so bad that it needs to be destroyed just like that? Given all my questions above, tell me - WHY DO THEY DO IT ALL (bases around the Russian Federation, teachings at our borders, endless sanctions, accusations of Russia of all mortal sins)?

    Do not attribute to me what I did not write.
    Most military bases have been standing since the Cold War. The exercises go around Kaliningrad, which may be the real goal for a local war. The main idea of ​​the article: to organize a global war with us, NATO simply does not need, there is no need, and we, in turn, will not pull it. Modern Russia is not able to “repeat” anything like this. That's the whole main idea of ​​the article, if you do not understand.
    Russia is blamed for everything, because the West needs to blame someone, and we are a convenient facility.
  30. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 22 March 2020 08: 43
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    Quote: A.Lex
    Hmm ... weird ... after reading your question:

    Why would the North Atlantic Alliance even attack modern Russia?

    I’m telling you about natural resources, and you tell me about territories ... Why do they need these meager chunks of land, if they are interested in what lies behind the Urals and in the south of the country? They themselves do not even need the EMPTY land (why then they do not occupy deserts in Africa? Are there lands in bulk there? Why are they crowded around Russia? Why are their bases concentrated on our borders?). Just look at the map and the questions disappear by themselves. Why do they conduct their teachings at our borders constantly?

    What resources? What are they doing here? They don’t sell them to them; Resources go at a reasonable price to this very West and East. So why fight something? Well, their owner will change, from this they will not become free.
  31. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 22 March 2020 08: 44
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    Quote: A.Lex
    Yes, he answered my past questions as if he had either not read them, or ... he did not understand at all what they were asking him about! I ask him a question - WHY do they cover us with bases, why are the exercises at the borders, endless sanctions, information war ... And he told me - "Kaliningrad ... Kuril Islands ..." ............ ..... in general, I have a feeling that we are talking about different things with him and he persistently tries to avoid direct answers to direct questions ...

    I directly answered several times what I think about this.