“Wrong system” air defense: Israel continues to bomb Syria with impunity


In September 2018, as a result of the Israeli pilot’s provocative maneuver, the Russian transport aircraft IL-20 with our troops on board was hit by the Syrian air defense system. The cause of the tragedy that led to the deaths of all Russians was the decision of Tel Aviv to launch an air strike against several targets in Latakia province.


A great public outcry led to the start of Moscow deliveries of Damascus S-300 anti-aircraft systems to Moscow. It was reported that after that the sky over Syria would definitely be taken under the control of Russian air defense systems, and the Israeli air raids would stop. Two years later, it can be stated that this task was never completed. Why did this happen?

The number of IDF air strikes has only recently increased. Most of them achieve the goal, while the Israelis do not suffer losses. Moreover, the Russian-made anti-aircraft systems are seriously affected. For example, on the night of February 6, the S-125M, Buk-M2E air defense systems and the Pantsir-S air defense system owned by the Syrians were damaged. As for the S-300, they continue to remain menacingly silent.

If we put aside emotions, it turns out that there are a whole range of reasons why the promised anti-aircraft dome did not appear over the SAR. And it’s not at all that the Russian air defense systems are “of the wrong system”.

Geopolitics


This is probably the main problem. On the one hand, Russia has allied relations with Syria. On the other hand, they are not ready to fight directly with Israel in the Kremlin over Syria. And it’s good that it’s because it would be a very bad idea. Because of this, Moscow helps Damascus, but without much fanaticism. She also through her fingers looks at the constant attacks of Israeli aircraft against Iranians in the SAR.

Gives some kind of "double-dealing", but such are the realities of modern external policy. In fact, Russian troops organized air defense over their bases in Syria, where they constantly have to fight off UAV raids by pro-Turkish militants.

Yourself all by yourself


Due to the above political attitude, the Syrians and Iranians have to ensure their own security. But this is not all right. Russian-made anti-aircraft systems themselves are a very serious tool, but they are not some kind of absolute “miracle weapon”. For their effective use, a number of conditions must be met.

At firstFirst, you need to deploy an automated radar reconnaissance system, which will quickly issue air defense target designation. That is, we are talking about creating a real network that requires modern and expensive equipment.

Secondly, the air defense system should be layered, consisting of anti-aircraft complexes of various types.

Thirdly, it is advisable to strengthen it with its own aviation fighter wing, which will fly towards Israeli aircraft.

Fourthlyto put it mildly, it will not hurt to deploy an electronic warfare system, without which it is problematic to resist modern aviation.

Fifthly, for the effective operation of these complexes requires a large number of highly qualified personnel.

Has all this been created in Syria in the last two years? Judging by the result, no. Damascus cannot pull all this on its own, and Russia will not fight against Israel instead.

That is why you should not count on the IDF raids stopping. And it’s not at all that our anti-aircraft systems are “of the wrong system”.
Photos used: https://mil.ru/
Ctrl Enter

Noticed oshЫbku Highlight text and press. Ctrl + Enter

104 comments
Information

Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.
I have an account? Sign in

  1. 123 Offline
    123 (123) 15 February 2020 11: 45
    +5
    • 6
    • 1
    Has all this been created in Syria in the last two years? Judging by the result, no. Damascus cannot pull all this on its own, and Russia will not fight against Israel instead.

    Yes, Russia will not fight with Israel for Iranian interests. Everything is very complicated there, mutual interests and contradictions are intertwined into a ball. East, in a word ....
    For those who like to see technical details, the video from the "younger generation", apparently, the USE is not reflected at all. laughing



    PS I do not give a link to part 1, there is profanity there. winked
  2. Natan bruk Offline
    Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 15 February 2020 13: 25
    -2
    • 6
    • 8
    Regarding the “provocative maneuver”, this can only be believed by people who have no idea how this all happens in practice, and who unconditionally believe the explanations of the Russian Defense Ministry. Experts spat on listening to Konashenkov’s snowstorm. For NON-Specialists - well, at least just ask yourself - how did IL appear in the fire zone? Who gave him the command to land at a time when the Syrian air defense was pounding into the white light? Or in another way - the IL was landing, suddenly F-16 appeared out of nowhere. The Syrians did not know that in their area of ​​fire will be IL? Where is the minimal interaction? Although the second option is generally stupid. In addition, the S-200 missile needs to be highlighted so that it finds a target. In fact, Israeli fighters were already landing at their bases when the Syrians opened fire and fired on everything in a row. It is all a matter of the criminal slovenliness of the Russian commanders and the amazing curvature and squint, as well as the complete lack of professionalism of the Syrian "specialists". But to tell the truth, of course, it was impossible - this would be a complete discredit of the Russian command. As a result, the Israelis did not “seek the truth,” since this made no practical sense — the Russian people would never have been told the truth, and the high command knows perfectly well what was the matter. Political interaction is more important for Israel. At the same time, at his press conference, Konashenkov did not hesitate to go for a direct forgery - he gave out marks of civilian aircraft over Cyprus for marks of Israeli fighters.
    1. Natan bruk Offline
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 15 February 2020 13: 31
      -7
      • 4
      • 11
      And to stop the shelling of Syria by the Israelis is very simple - to force the Shiite Islamofascists, who loudly proclaim the destruction of Israel as their goal, (IRG and Hezbollah) to leave Syria. Just. But alas, neither Russia nor Syria can do this. Therefore, Israel has to act as it does. There is nothing else left. From 1974 to 2013, the Syrian-Israeli border was absolutely calm. Assad knew how the invitation of the Shiite Islamists would end, but he did so. Well, let him now blame himself. And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least.
      1. Arkharov Offline
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 15 February 2020 14: 43
        +1
        • 5
        • 4
        Natan bruk
        Here is the answer to this lengthy, stupid article.
      2. Kostyar Offline
        Kostyar 16 February 2020 10: 21
        0
        • 1
        • 1
        And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least.

        Maybe Israel needs the war with Russia least of all ..... It’s not Putin who flies to Israel, how to work, so that)))
      3. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 17 February 2020 15: 07
        0
        • 1
        • 1
        Quote: Natan Bruk
        And to stop the shelling of Syria by the Israelis is very simple - to force Shiite Islamofascists

        Firstly, Israel does not touch Israel from Syria. He has a conscious policy of escalating tensions.
        Assad is still not profitable to fight on 3 fronts - Idlib, USA, Israel. Therefore, the Israelis go unpunished.
        But the S-400 completely covers the territory of Israel, and, in principle, can hollow planes directly on take-off - the same preventive measure, destruction before the attack.
  3. Arkharov Offline
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 15 February 2020 14: 41
    -3
    • 4
    • 7
    Particularly ridiculous is the third point. It may be possible to strengthen (it would be very desirable to look at the Iranian "fighter wing"), and they may also fly out. But how about flying back?
  4. Port Offline
    Port 15 February 2020 16: 32
    +2
    • 5
    • 3
    The synagogue, entrenched in the government and the Duma of Russia, is the reason why the Israeli fascists are not touched.
    1. Krasnodar Online
      Krasnodar 16 February 2020 13: 33
      0
      • 2
      • 2
      The Nazis are legal in Syria - the SSNP party, the second largest after the ruling Ba'ath. Touch Israel? laughing To do this, the Syrian army must be fully restored ... for the next loss to the Israelis.
      1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 17 February 2020 23: 07
        0
        • 1
        • 1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        the Syrian army ... for another loss to the Israelis

        The Israelis are no longer the same. When did you climb the land, tanks and infantry for the last time in Lebanon, what happened? Lost 2 tanks, several people, and enthusiasm faded.
        And if Syria will have Iskanders? And will there be a strong rear? Punch to punch, and the Israeli government will fly like plywood over Tel Aviv.
        1. Krasnodar Online
          Krasnodar 17 February 2020 23: 10
          +2
          • 2
          • 0
          The Israelis are no longer the same. When did you climb the land, tanks and infantry for the last time in Lebanon, what happened? Lost 2 tanks, several people, and enthusiasm faded.

          I am a participant in those events - who told you this? laughing

          And if Syria will have Iskanders? And will there be a strong rear? Punch to punch, and the Israeli government will fly like plywood over Tel Aviv.

          Due to the strike by Iskanders on Tel Aviv, it certainly will not fly. It will fly by if, after that, at least one whole residential block remains from Damascus.
          1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
            Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 19 February 2020 13: 49
            0
            • 1
            • 1
            Quote: Krasnodar
            It will fly by if, after that, at least one whole residential block remains from Damascus.

            And there is at least one whole block if the PMC of the IG was on the outskirts? And when the IS was pressed, through Israel they were brought to Jordan.
            That's just the point, now Syria has no fear of bombing. All the same, they will not be able to rebuild the economy, as well as Lebanon. And to receive moral satisfaction from the devastation in the Jewish quarters of Jerusalem is always pleasant.
            Do you think the Hamas are bullying in Israel with the goal of destroying something? No, just for fun, brag to the boys.
  5. gorenina91 Offline
    gorenina91 (Irina) 15 February 2020 17: 22
    0
    • 4
    • 4
    First, first you need to deploy an automated radar reconnaissance system that will quickly issue air defense target designation. That is, we are talking about creating a real network that requires modern and expensive equipment.

    Secondly, the air defense system should be layered, consisting of anti-aircraft complexes of various types.

    Thirdly, it is advisable to strengthen it with its own aviation fighter wing, which will fly towards Israeli aircraft.

    Fourthly, to put it mildly, it will not hurt to deploy an electronic warfare system, without which it is difficult to resist modern aviation.

    Fifth, for the effective operation of these complexes, a large number of highly qualified personnel are required.

    - Oh, well ...
    - Well, find and put out my comment a year ago, where personally, I have already set out in detail about this ...
    - And personally, I already wrote that this (listed) is clearly not enough ... - Russia in Syria needs to deploy an entire fortified area (if not an entire Russian military district) with armored vehicles (tank and motorized infantry divisions); two or three fighter and bomber regiments with underground hangars for our Russian VKS; with underground fuel storage facilities; with repair and construction divisions, deployed services for setting up maintenance of all kinds of equipment and various military structures; with underground storage facilities and arsenals for storing weapons and ammunition; and of course - with a whole air defense complex, where professionally trained Russian military specialists will conduct round-the-clock combat duty ... - Yes, it’s all expensive, but it’s impossible otherwise ... - and it will then pay off for Russia ... - and create broad prospects for Russia ...
    - Here ... - the only way if Russia is going to achieve something in the Middle. In the East ... - And today, Russia has every chance (under the general guise) to deploy and realize all this ... - Otherwise, Russia will soon have to collect money and leave Syria ...
    - But to the author of the article ... - anyway ... respectman from me and plus ...
  6. Radikal Offline
    Radikal 15 February 2020 19: 50
    +1
    • 4
    • 3
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

    You confuse the concepts a bit - do not mix the whole of Russia with those who are currently “steering” it .... sad
    1. Tramp1812 Offline
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 20: 20
      0
      • 3
      • 3
      Quote: Radikal
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

      You confuse the concepts a bit - do not mix the whole of Russia with those who are currently “steering” it .... sad

      1. Do you take the liberty of asserting on behalf of Russia that it vitally needs a war with Israel?
      2. I am not a Russian, you know better, of course, but it seems to me that the problem of the war with Israel is less of a concern to Russia now than, say, solving the water supply to Crimea and improving the welfare of the population.
      3. How is Israel threatening Russia and has it ever been threatened?
      1. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 08: 59
        -1
        • 0
        • 1
        ... Zionist politics - yes, yes, threatened and threatened! Yes, Mr. Chabad ...
        1. Tramp1812 Offline
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 20 February 2020 18: 04
          0
          • 0
          • 0
          The whole "Zionist policy" of Israel in relation to the USSR, and then to the Russian Federation, as to the successor was reduced to only one: "Let my people go!" The USSR stubbornly, the Russian Federation let go. Israel needed nothing more. There are now 160 thousand Jews in Russia. But really - this is a bloated figure, as those leaving for permanent residence in Israel retain Russian citizenship. There are no Jews left in the Russian Federation, from the word absolutely. But according to official figures, in Israel there are 14000 illegal immigrants from Russia. What did they forget, al? And Israel’s trade and cooperation with Russia amount to more than 3 billion euros annually, a visa-free regime is in effect. Many hundreds of thousands of tourists from Russia annually visit our country. Unlike the United States and European countries, Israel did not impose sanctions on the Russian Federation. So, no - not threatening. And never threatened.
    2. Natan bruk Offline
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 15 February 2020 20: 42
      -1
      • 4
      • 5
      And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.
  7. Tramp1812 Offline
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 20: 13
    +4
    • 5
    • 1
    The author, very objectively, point by point, outlined a number of necessary conditions for the functioning of the S-300. If this is true, then the supply of an air defense system, and even for free, will provide the Assad regime with expensive scrap metal. Toy system. The logical question is: why did they supply it? Moreover, according to the author, Russia is not going to fight with Israel. Nevertheless, menacingly silent complexes are installed. If for the moral support of Assad, then unconvincing. Even somewhere grotesque. Perhaps there are some secret agreements with Israel and marked with "red lines" that he should not cross? Unlikely. Israeli experts, moreover Russian-speaking, publicly and graphically on Israeli television explained that the S-300 is an archaic. And amazed at the same time as the backlighting on the fighter. Right on the beam. That is not scary. Originally. And now, with the activation of an ally, albeit not an ally, albeit a partner of the Russian Federation - Turkey in Syria and Libya, it seems involuntarily that maybe the S-300 against Ankara will be used. The author raised an interesting question, I am sure there will be a sufficient number of comments. I would like to see the logical conclusion of the publication and get an answer to the question: why were the S-300s put into the territory controlled by Bashar Assad?
  8. Port Offline
    Port 15 February 2020 20: 50
    0
    • 3
    • 3
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    about the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest.

    It’s better to tell how the brave Zionists fought in the 41-45 years, besides the Holocaust, is there anything to be proud of?
    PS We got with your chatter, how terrible you are with the Arabs.
    1. Natan bruk Offline
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 15 February 2020 21: 04
      -6
      • 3
      • 9
      For the illiterate, there is still something to be proud of. By the number of Heroes of the Soviet Union, Jews are in 5th place. Moreover, in absolute terms. If the percentage of the total number is much higher. And they were drafted into the army in exactly the same way as all the others. But people like you surrendered, and in the occupied territories became elders, licked boots for the Germans and helped them catch partisans.
      1. Tramp1812 Offline
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 22: 44
        +3
        • 4
        • 1
        Quote: Natan Bruk
        For the illiterate, there is still something to be proud of. By the number of Heroes of the Soviet Union, Jews are in 5th place.

        The leader of the world proletariat V.I. Lenin noted that

        Facts, comrades, this is not only a convincing, but certainly an evidentiary thing.

        According to statistics, in the Second World War, only in the ranks of the Red Army took part 500000 Jews, 200000 of whom died in the fighting. 220 thousand Jews were officers, 305 Jews were generals and admirals. The total percentage of draft tension in the Red Army was 24%, among Jews 27%. About 200000 thousand Jews were awarded military orders and medals. The Gold Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union awarded 177 Jews. Among the most outstanding feat, Marshals Rokossovsky and Zhukov, each independently from each other, singled out the feat of the anti-tanker Jew Dyskin. Dear Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev, for the rest of his life boasted of the feat of the Jew Kunikov Caesar Lvovich, and the most successful and fearless divers were the Jews Bogorad and Fisanovich.
        At the beginning of 1943, Jews took third place in the number of awarded Heroes of the Soviet Union. After that, in the same 1943, Secretary of the Central Committee Zhdanov A.S. sent a directive to the troops to reward Jews in limited numbers. For example, the tanker Ion Degen three times his comrades sent a presentation for the awarding of the rank of GSS. And three times in the last resort he was denied. Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov, looking through the lists of fighters presented for the assignment of the GSS for the assault on Berlin, personally crossed out all the Jews, saying: "We have already fulfilled the plan for the Jews." The legendary Jew of Pechersky, the leader of the only successful uprising in the Sobibor concentration camp, was sent to a penal battalion. And after a grave wound, they presented to the Order of the Red Star. So the military commissar crossed out the award, replacing it with the medal "For Military Merit". And then they put in jail, as a rootless cosmopolitan. Nevertheless, Jews today are in fourth place in terms of the number of GSS. And this is in absolute terms.
      2. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 01
        -2
        • 0
        • 2
        ... Nathan, who are "people like you"? Your mother took care of you throughout the war, fed you, and there were conscripts there ... WAS IT REQUESTING TO INFORM ?! Did you hear something about Kiselev’s detachment ?!
    2. Krasnodar Online
      Krasnodar 16 February 2020 13: 39
      +2
      • 2
      • 0
      Quote: Port

      It’s better to tell how the brave Zionists fought in the 41-45 years, besides the Holocaust, is there anything to be proud of?
      PS We got with your chatter, how terrible you are with the Arabs.

      In 41-45, the Zionists did not have their own army and their own state. )))
      1. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 10: 03
        -2
        • 0
        • 2
        ... Zionists in spirit WAS ALWAYS !!
        1. Tramp1812 Offline
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 20 February 2020 18: 11
          0
          • 0
          • 0
          Quote: tania
          ... Zionists in spirit - WAS ALWAYS !! ,,

          But this is true. I completely agree. I have always been and remain a Zionist. Convinced, moreover. If you use the Soviet newspeak: I am a terry Zionist. And obscurantism, moreover!
  9. Port Offline
    Port 15 February 2020 21: 09
    +2
    • 4
    • 2
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    For the illiterate, there is something to be proud of

    There is nothing to be proud of the word at all, all that you have is someone else’s, stolen or stolen, all that you have written through the word is lies and lies, except for Judas. Here the Romans are witnesses, do not get out.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  10. Port Offline
    Port 15 February 2020 21: 17
    +1
    • 2
    • 1
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    But people like you surrendered, and in the occupied territories became


    These “heroes” of the Soviet Union?
    1. Tramp1812 Offline
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 22: 55
      +1
      • 2
      • 1
      Quote: Port
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      But people like you surrendered, and in the occupied territories became


      These “heroes” of the Soviet Union?

      Why not ? Why did you, for example, the legendary Serebryansky Yakov Isaakovich - the pride of foreign intelligence of Soviet Russia did not please?
      1. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 09
        -2
        • 0
        • 2
        ... Well, at the same time the info is on the blank ... "Operationally" working ... Well, after all, the war was organized only against you, as we understand it; you, or your ancestors had, have an income in this respect - for the moral ...- but neither my mother nor the grandmother who lost their soldiers called up for the Red Army !! .. So why not fight yours and not serve in the agents ... - WEAKLY is it ?? !! ..
    2. Natan bruk Offline
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 16 February 2020 02: 28
      -5
      • 1
      • 6
      In the Gulag, pests were re-educated. And about the Heroes of the Soviet Union they wrote to you at the top. These are not the ones that served the Nazis, their boots were licked, and they helped to catch partisans.
      1. Dzafdet Offline
        Dzafdet (Sergei) 17 February 2020 09: 46
        -1
        • 1
        • 2
        I read the lists of the repressed in our town in the 1937-1940s. Some peasants, workers, intelligentsia. A pair of priests and that’s all ... Was it necessary to kill them? Jews need it. They staged two revolutions and civil wars in Russia. And now they are full in the manual ...
      2. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 13
        -1
        • 0
        • 1
        ... in the Gulag, pests were re-educated ...

        Here it is DAaaaaa !!! He himself served there, about the same thing! Why - not having sat out in the trenches, is already the best variation yet - according to your logic, Monsignor !! !! !!
  11. Radikal Offline
    Radikal 15 February 2020 22: 27
    +2
    • 4
    • 2
    Quote: Rogue1812
    Quote: Radikal
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

    You confuse the concepts a bit - do not mix the whole of Russia with those who are currently “steering” it .... sad

    1. Do you take the liberty of asserting on behalf of Russia that it vitally needs a war with Israel?
    2. I am not a Russian, you know better, of course, but it seems to me that the problem of the war with Israel, Russia is currently less concerned than, say, solving the water supply to Crimea and improving the welfare of the population.
    3. How is Israel threatening Russia and has it ever been threatened?

    I explain to both, or both (for your nicknames I do not see what gender you are. lol ) You are talking about war here, and there you are doing it on your borders. This is the first. Secondly, why does your Benya go to the guarantor every time before striking Syria? Asks permission? They had a good little boob! As for the alleged “necessity” of the war with Israel, you are pedaling this question in your commentary ... sad
    1. Tramp1812 Offline
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 23: 02
      0
      • 2
      • 2
      Quote: Radikal
      Quote: Rogue1812
      Quote: Radikal
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

      You confuse the concepts a bit - do not mix the whole of Russia with those who are currently “steering” it .... sad

      1. Do you take the liberty of asserting on behalf of Russia that it vitally needs a war with Israel?
      2. I am not a Russian, you know better, of course, but it seems to me that the problem of the war with Israel, Russia is currently less concerned than, say, solving the water supply to Crimea and improving the welfare of the population.
      3. How is Israel threatening Russia and has it ever been threatened?

      I explain to both, or both (for your nicknames I do not see - what gender are you lol ) You are talking about war here, and there you are doing it on your borders. This is the first. Secondly, why does your Benya go to the guarantor every time before striking Syria? Asks permission? They had a good little boob! As for the alleged “necessity” of the war with Israel, you are pedaling this question in your commentary ... sad

      You are not only a radical, but also an extremist. And you take the liberty of expressing your extremist views on behalf of all of Russia. Which is unfortunate.
      1. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 20
        -1
        • 0
        • 1
        ... Already a "extremist" ... Our IL was shot down: there was no investigation; we were not named after the victims; in the morning, Netanyahu in the Kremlin, and in the evening they bomb our allies with regularity; I'm not talking about Hanukkah in the Kremlin, donated apartments to aunts in Israel - on behalf of the Prospect of the Russian Federation, but at my expense ..; pension all adult to the population of Izr. - also at my expense - and so on ..; to list - it makes you sick ...
  12. Alex Russia Offline
    Alex Russia (Georges Miloslavsky) 16 February 2020 00: 06
    +2
    • 4
    • 2
    Israel is not our enemy, our traditional enemy is Turkey.
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko (Alekcandr Sokolenko) 16 February 2020 08: 19
      +1
      • 2
      • 1
      Citizens, keep money in a savings bank, if of course you have it.

      And brains - in the head, and also (of course) - do not look for the enemy far, look behind your back, like Vakula - the Devil, and you will not be mistaken. In the modern world, the main enemy is the inability to recognize the direction and depth of aggression (both from the outside and from the inside).
  13. Sapsan136 Online
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 00: 31
    +3
    • 5
    • 2
    You can put Israel in its place, and you even need to ... It’s not a great power, but it’s not impudent ... It is another matter that you first need to resolve the issue in Syria with Turkey and the United States, and not wage a war on three fronts ...
    1. Natan bruk Offline
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 16 February 2020 02: 30
      -1
      • 3
      • 4
      In 1967 and 1973 the USSR was already trying to "put Israel in place." Tell how it ended?
      1. Sapsan136 Online
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 02: 46
        +6
        • 7
        • 1
        The result was that Israel lost two-thirds of its aircraft ..
        1. Tramp1812 Offline
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 06: 03
          +2
          • 3
          • 1
          Quote: Sapsan136
          The result was that Israel lost two-thirds of its aircraft ..

          Let me remind you that the topic of the publication is different: the formidable silence of the S-300 air defense system during Hel Aavir attacks on enemy military targets. Why replace it, and even with the clearly unrealistic need for priority in the destruction by Russia of Turkey, the United States and, of course, Israel? And this despite the fact that Russia has diplomatic relations and economic ties with the United States, Turkey, and Israel.
          Moreover, you are citing untrue data on the alleged loss of Israel in the wars of 1967 and 1973. Only to illustrate the methodology of Peter the Great so that, to put it mildly, "everyone’s incompetence was visible," I will cite generally accepted data. In 1967, the Arab coalition lost 100 percent of its aircraft in the war against Israel. Israel - 46 out of 500 aircraft. That is less than 10%.
          And here is the data on the Doomsday War: General forces: 375 soldiers at the beginning of the war and 000 by the end, 415 tanks, 000 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, 1700 guns and 3000 aircraft. (Israel)

          General forces: 993 soldiers, 000 tanks, 3630 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, 4000 guns, 1720 aircraft and 480 helicopters. (Arab coalition).

          Losses from 109-120 [10] [11] [12] aircraft and helicopters 15 UAVs [13]

          810 tanks and armored vehicles (irrevocably) [12]

          от 2500-3000[11][14][15][16] погибших.

          from 7500-9000 [11] [14] to 20 [specify (obs.)] [000] wounded
          326-530 prisoners [11] [12] (Israel).

          368-447 aircraft and helicopters
          1775 tanks and armored vehicles (irrevocably) [12]

          from 8500-9000 to 18 dead.
          from 19 - 500 to 19 wounded. (United Arab Forces).
          Israel’s losses in planes and helicopters amounted to less than one third. And this is when the effect of surprise was achieved by Arab opponents, who this time attacked Israel with the help of 18 Arab states + Cuba, North Korea, and Pakistan. And even .... Uganda.
          CONCLUSION: in order not to look ridiculous, do not wishful thinking.
          1. Sapsan136 Online
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 11: 00
            +4
            • 5
            • 1
            Read the British literature on the losses of the Israeli Air Force, be very surprised, and do not consider stupid a man who has a better education than yours, funny ... I advise you to start with the book of Robert Jackson ... "Legendary Fighters", a good font, a clear and concise summary, illustrations of aircraft in historical camouflage.
            1. Tramp1812 Offline
              Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 11: 29
              0
              • 3
              • 3
              Israel never, in principle, never concealed its losses. To each dead soldier of the IDF, his commander personally comes home to report the mournful news. The name of each deceased is immortalized on a common plaque and is announced throughout the country on Sorrow Day by the media. Therefore, the loss of Israeli aviation is known until the last aircraft. The reference to some unnamed "British literature", you see, is unconvincing. In turn, I can advise the book of the Russian author M. Zhirokhov "Wings of retaliation. History of the Israeli Air Force." To start. About your best education: happy for you. Behind me is only the University and the degree of candidate of legal sciences, academic title - associate professor. Therefore, you are at least and professor. True, it is not entirely clear what could be higher than higher education? Is it that a specialized management structure, such as the Academy of the Interior, or the Academy of the General Staff? I repeat: happy for you. You have a better education and the sun shines brighter in the window.
              1. Sapsan136 Online
                Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 11: 33
                +3
                • 5
                • 2
                Almost the whole world does not agree with your statement, but if you and other Jews are pleased to consider yourself smarter than others (see the cartoon about Mowgli), these are your problems ... Unnamed British literature? !!! I pointed out to you the author, the title of the book, either read before writing your stupid things, or share your tales with grandmothers on the stove in Telaviv, they will understand you ... Literature written in the grandees of the USA is only suitable as toilet paper. .
                1. Arkharov Offline
                  Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 16 February 2020 19: 20
                  0
                  • 1
                  • 1
                  Sapsan136
                  You remind me of the “academician” from the wonderful film “Give a plaintive book,” which “menu” wrote through “and”. I wonder what kind of "education is better than yours"? If the movie doesn’t remember, reconsider.
                  1. Sapsan136 Online
                    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 17 February 2020 08: 43
                    +2
                    • 3
                    • 1
                    Technical and military ... Later, for myself, I graduated from the history department ... I doubt that you have a similar one, and whom you remind us can be seen from your rating.
                    1. Arkharov Offline
                      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 17 February 2020 12: 08
                      -1
                      • 0
                      • 1
                      Sapsan136 My "rating" here is determined by "academics" like you, and if he were high here, I would be very upset. So, something in my worldview is completely wrong.
                      1. Sapsan136 Online
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 19 February 2020 10: 48
                        0
                        • 1
                        • 1
                        Oh, you don’t have to think that everything around is a stupid crowd, and you are so smart and special, you remind Novodvorskaya ...
                      2. Arkharov Offline
                        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 19 February 2020 12: 27
                        -2
                        • 0
                        • 2
                        I think that you are up to Novodvorskaya ...
                      3. Sapsan136 Online
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 19 February 2020 19: 30
                        +2
                        • 3
                        • 1
                        I’m far from an illiterate Makarevich, whose mind was not even enough to graduate from vocational schools and companies, really far, since I have a good education and continue to improve it. For example, last year I got access to working with gas equipment, having passed the exams well ...
                      4. Arkharov Offline
                        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 20 February 2020 07: 18
                        -1
                        • 0
                        • 1
                        After leaving school in 1971 he entered the Moscow Architectural Institute, from where he was expelled (officially - “for untimely departure from work at the vegetable base”, in fact - by the closed order of one of the party instances, because of unapproved classes in rock music ), after which he got a job as an architect in the Giproteatr ("State Institute of Theater and Spectacle Design"), where he worked until 1974, in 1979 he was reinstated at the Moscow Architectural Institute at the evening department, graduated in 1977 with a diploma of a graphic artist and architect

                        What to discuss with you at all, if you with your education cannot even find information on the Internet. The dialogue is probably over.
                      5. Sapsan136 Online
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 20 February 2020 09: 39
                        +2
                        • 3
                        • 1
                        Well, on the Internet you’re among the gossip ... Your strengths, but for good deeds, and not for the praise of Russophobia patients of foreigners ... By the way, now every drunk blames the KGB for its problems, it’s fashionable ... I remember one such He set fire to the doors of the Russian Federation, in France he received a residence permit like a refugee, but he didn’t get on there, now he’s in prison ... they’re going to deprive him of a residence permit and drive him from France to the neck ... You need to go to Israel why do you travel by strangers countries and insult the local population whose way of life is alien and incomprehensible to you ?! Leave home and you will be happy!
  14. Sapsan136 Online
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 11: 22
    +4
    • 6
    • 2
    Cuba fought in Angola, with a limited contingent there ... Although, of course, they fight with aliens Novodvorsky, especially under a dose of American cookies ... As for the battle in which 5 MiG-21s of the USSR Air Force, which Russophobes love to trump, then the battle took place with the enormous numerical advantage of the enemy (12 Mirages + 12 Phantoms) ... MiGs were already running out of fuel, as they were carrying out the task of covering the area and were already with half-empty tanks .. In the battle 1 Mirage was lost, the loss of which Israel He didn’t admit, but they don’t recognize a lot of things .. Including they like silent say that in previous skirmishes these MiGs destroyed 2 Skyhawks + 1 Skyhawks + 1 Phantom of the Israeli Air Force ... Jews are also silent about the battles with the MiG-25 ... They are more profitable to show the F-15 as some kind of superweapon .. In fact, the MiG-25s shot down 2 F-15s, while the USSR lost 2 MiG-25s in battle (this machine was only good at high altitudes, at medium and low altitudes the MiG's speed dropped, but maneuverability remained unimportant. But this is normal for an interceptor and high-altitude reconnaissance, this is not a fighter for gaining air supremacy).
    1. Alexzn Offline
      Alexzn (Alexander) 17 February 2020 09: 40
      +1
      • 1
      • 0
      Quote: Sapsan136
      Cuba fought in Angola, with a limited contingent there ... Although, of course, they fight with aliens Novodvorsky, especially under a dose of American cookies ... As for the battle in which 5 MiG-21s of the USSR Air Force, which Russophobes love to trump, then the battle took place with the enormous numerical advantage of the enemy (12 Mirages + 12 Phantoms) ... MiGs were already running out of fuel, as they were carrying out the task of covering the area and were already with half-empty tanks .. In the battle 1 Mirage was lost, the loss of which Israel He didn’t admit, but they don’t recognize a lot of things .. Including they like silent say that in previous skirmishes these MiGs destroyed 2 Skyhawks + 1 Skyhawks + 1 Phantom of the Israeli Air Force ... Jews are also silent about the battles with the MiG-25 ... They are more profitable to show the F-15 as some kind of superweapon .. In fact, the MiG-25s shot down 2 F-15s, while the USSR lost 2 MiG-25s in battle (this machine was only good at high altitudes, at medium and low altitudes the MiG's speed dropped, but maneuverability remained unimportant. But this is normal for an interceptor and high-altitude reconnaissance, this is not a fighter for gaining air supremacy).

      24 Mig -21 against 4 phantoms and 12 mirages - it is curious. Do you know how to count? A huge advantage? Well, then you generally have myth-making. What are the fights with the MiG-25? What are you talking about?
      1. Sapsan136 Online
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 19 February 2020 10: 49
        0
        • 1
        • 1
        I brought the book and the author ... An Englishman cannot be suspected of love for Russia ... So the book is quite adequate ... If you prefer the gossip of the old women on Tel Aviv stoves, your problems ...
        1. Alexzn Offline
          Alexzn (Alexander) 20 February 2020 20: 24
          0
          • 0
          • 0
          Quote: Sapsan136
          I brought the book and the author ... An Englishman cannot be suspected of love for Russia ... So the book is quite adequate ... If you prefer the gossip of the old women on Tel Aviv stoves, your problems ...

          The Rimon operation is described in dozens of books, there are many articles about it, including Wikipedia, and nowhere are they written about the numerical advantage of the Israelis, moreover, the names of Israeli pilots are given. The ratio was 16 to 24, however, all the planes of the Israelis were the next generation.
          I called myth-writing written that the Israelis concealed the loss of aircraft and denied the fact of clashes. Everything you have indicated is well known, in Israel it is generally impossible to hide losses due to the specifics of a country that is small enough and where everything is somehow connected - countrymen, classmates, served together, served reserve service, etc. Losses were hidden only in the course of hostilities, after their end we know them EXACTLY.
          1. Sapsan136 Online
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 20 February 2020 20: 52
            +2
            • 2
            • 0
            The USA generously pays for fairy tales ... here are storytellers and try ...
      2. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 10: 11
        -1
        • 0
        • 1
        ... You have "facts", we have "myth-making" ... Ha ha, again - ha !! ..
  15. Tania Offline
    Tania 20 February 2020 09: 37
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    ... You are confusing something, little ... Suddenness came just from Israel! However, how quickly they slip the numbers ...
  16. Tania Offline
    Tania 20 February 2020 10: 09
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    ... In where is the organization, tramp! At night, he collected the sources ?!
  • Krasnodar Online
    Krasnodar 16 February 2020 13: 46
    +3
    • 3
    • 0
    Quote: Sapsan136
    The result was that Israel lost two-thirds of its aircraft ..

    A third - and Egypt has gone over to the Americans.
    1. Sapsan136 Online
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 17 February 2020 08: 41
      +4
      • 5
      • 1
      Well, the presence of bad soldiers in Egypt (Arabs are merchants, not military by nature) and rotten politicians are no reason to blame the USSR and the Russian Federation for something.
      1. Tramp1812 Offline
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 17 February 2020 16: 28
        +2
        • 2
        • 0
        Quote: Sapsan136
        Well, the presence of bad soldiers in Egypt (Arabs are merchants, not military by nature) and rotten politicians, there is no reason to blame the USSR and the Russian Federation for something

        "Arabs are bad soldiers" is a hackneyed stereotype. It’s fundamentally wrong.
        The nation that created the Arab Caliphate with the fire and sword from the sands of Arabia to the Iberian Peninsula, on the one hand, Bukhara and Samarkand, on the other, cannot, by definition, have a bad army. Which was proved by Iraq in the war with Iran superior to it in the main indicators.
        And the events in Syria objectively refute your premise. Moreover, contradict yourself. Moreover, this contradiction is antagonistic in nature. You claim (without proof, moreover) that during the Doomsday War, Arabs destroyed two-thirds of the most modern combat aircraft and helicopters of the Israeli Air Force. The documentary data, however, testify to the loss by Israel of a third of the fleet of military aircraft. But the very fact that 30% of Hel Aavir’s ultramodern aircraft, the most authoritative in the whole world, was destroyed by the enemy, refutes your arguments about the Arab stupid people. In Afghanistan, under the leadership of the number one terrorist, Bin Laden, Arab Mujahideen spoiled a lot of blood of the SA. And in Chechnya, too, were not the last. The operation to destroy the two twin towers in New York is clearly not the work of Arabs - merchants. It is clear that all this is in the past. Let’s ask a question of today: And with whom, for about five years now, have the United States, its allies, Russia, Turkey, the Kurds been unable to cope in Syria? Fight - then, again, with the Arabs. But you, as I understand it, did not want to say that. The meaning of the post is that the Jews - the soldiers, too, are not so hot, they just have a bad opponent. But this is your fundamental error. Israel is superior to the orders of Arab opponents and not only, primarily in high-tech, the education system, in all other areas of the economy. This lag is not in terms of good-bad, but in terms of advanced-backward. Well, of course, motivation. For the Arabs, defeat in the war is just another humiliating slap in the face. Not the World Cup, more serious, of course, but not fatal. And for the Jews, defeat is the collapse of everything. And a return to jokes, such as: "they’re not beaten according to the passport, but in the face!" "Jewish collective farmer."
        At one time, very sympathetic to Israel, but always betrayed by the King of Jordan, Hussein, said at a secret meeting with the Israelis: “I know that the IDF can win many more glorious victories. But you thought about what would happen if Israel suffers at least one defeat ? " Jews know very well what will happen. Therefore, they beat the superior in all respects Arab armies. And not because Arabs are bad soldiers.
        1. Sapsan136 Online
          Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 19 February 2020 10: 47
          +1
          • 2
          • 1
          1) The rating of soldiers of different countries is not in favor of the Arabs
          2) Jews hijacked the newest T-62 from the Arabs at the time, while the Arabs prayed ... Good soldiers fight well, and do not stand on his feet while the enemy steals their tank ... There were bandits in Chechnya who fought well with pregnant women women in the hospital, and when trying to capture the airfield of the helicopter regiment, Basaev and the company were washed by snot-conscripts.
  • Tania Offline
    Tania 20 February 2020 09: 22
    -3
    • 0
    • 3
    ... Yes, you are already at peace, the former ... from the USSR ... You write something in the Cyrillic alphabet, nourished by the bread from the advice ... Well, be sure to write though in Hebrew that eh !!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Port Offline
    Port 16 February 2020 07: 04
    +2
    • 3
    • 1
    Quote: Rogue1812
    legendary Serebryansky Yakov Isaakovich

    This is a herd of executioners in the photo, outweighs all your "heroes". By the way, the photo is not complete there, there are much more “heroes”.
  • Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 February 2020 07: 28
    +2
    • 3
    • 1
    Quote: Arkharov
    Natan bruk
    Here is the answer to this lengthy, stupid article.

    Who are the judges?
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko (Alekcandr Sokolenko) 16 February 2020 08: 12
      +1
      • 2
      • 1
      She is not stupid, she is bashfully - apologizing (“defending”, but without fanaticism, fanaticism - just sawing and selling the Motherland) - even Jews, Judas (formally) - a model of patriotism, and the Russians pushed to the periphery of world Culture: she did not give birth to Hero - Motherland ! - so if they are killed by millions, and Russia will not suffer these losses, hence the "oil painting". One Frenchman said:

      If you kill the three hundred best sons of France, she will disappear.

      - How many Russians were killed? - and this process does not stop for a second.
  • Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 February 2020 07: 32
    +2
    • 3
    • 1
    Quote: Arkharov
    Particularly ridiculous is the third point. It may be possible to strengthen (it would be very desirable to look at the Iranian "fighter wing"), and they may also fly out. But how about flying back?

    Yeah, you’ll have a good laugh.
  • Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 February 2020 07: 37
    +1
    • 2
    • 1
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    Regarding the “provocative maneuver”, this can only be believed by people who have no idea how this all happens in practice, and who unconditionally believe the explanations of the Russian Defense Ministry. Experts spat on listening to Konashenkov’s snowstorm. For NON-Specialists - well, at least just ask yourself - how did IL appear in the fire zone? Who gave him the command to land at a time when the Syrian air defense was pounding into the white light? Or in another way - the IL was landing, suddenly F-16 appeared out of nowhere. The Syrians did not know that in their area of ​​fire will be IL? Where is the minimal interaction? Although the second option is generally stupid. In addition, the S-200 missile needs to be highlighted so that it finds a target. In fact, Israeli fighters were already landing at their bases when the Syrians opened fire and fired on everything in a row. It is all a matter of the criminal slovenliness of the Russian commanders and the amazing curvature and squint, as well as the complete lack of professionalism of the Syrian "specialists". But to tell the truth, of course, it was impossible - this would be a complete discredit of the Russian command. As a result, the Israelis did not “seek the truth,” since this made no practical sense — the Russian people would never have been told the truth, and the high command knows perfectly well what was the matter. Political interaction is more important for Israel. At the same time, at his press conference, Konashenkov did not hesitate to go for a direct forgery - he gave out marks of civilian aircraft over Cyprus for marks of Israeli fighters.

    Are you an expert yourself that broadcasts so boldly? Or are you referring to other Israeli specialists?
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko (Alekcandr Sokolenko) 16 February 2020 08: 05
      0
      • 1
      • 1
      Ours did not shake anything, recalled poems: "Guys - all wrong, all wrong, - guys!" - Outside the surrender of the USSR, any explanation of this topic, as well as any other, is naive, and in some places simply - stupid.
  • Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 February 2020 07: 40
    +2
    • 3
    • 1
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    And to stop the shelling of Syria by the Israelis is very simple - to force the Shiite Islamofascists, who loudly proclaim the destruction of Israel as their goal, (IRG and Hezbollah) to leave Syria. Just.

    It’s interesting how you and your American allies would comment, start Russia, according to this logic, to knock out NATO’s presence near its borders
  • Alekcandr Sokolenko (Alekcandr Sokolenko) 16 February 2020 08: 00
    -2
    • 0
    • 2
    The “dome” over the defeated USSR is the indulgence of the Dollar to Judas of Russian nationality, and even then - in places (the last religion of the Third Rome). Why did civilization die? “They killed AIDS.”
  • Tramp1812 Offline
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 08: 25
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    Quote: Port
    Quote: Rogue1812
    legendary Serebryansky Yakov Isaakovich

    This herd of executioners in the photo outweighs all your "heroes", by the way, the photo is incomplete, there are much more "heroes" there.

    Iuppiter iratus ergo nefas. Well, what are you boiling? It is methodologically incorrect to make the brutality of the civil war and the totalitarian regime in the USSR dependent on one or another ethnic community. The Jacobin dictatorship, or mass executions at the Place de la Concorde in Paris, the totalitarian regimes of Pol Pot in Cambodia, Spain from the times of Franco, Portugal - Salazar, Pope Doc in Haiti, Japan - World War II, Germany - Hitler, the cultural revolution in China - these are all links in one chains. In none of the examples of Jews that I cited did it even stand nearby. The totalitarianism of the Stalinist system gave rise to pathological executioners such as Blokhin Vasily and Ezhov Nikolai Ivanovich, Beria and Abakumov, and millions of other people of non-Jewish nationality. You can contrast your own personality with such recognized geniuses of humanity as Landau and Khalatnikova, Kosberg and Gurevich, Ginzburg and Khariton, Joff and Zeldovich, Lavochkin and Mil. I take, I note, only the Russians. Roundedly, out of 900 Nobel Prize winners, about 300 are Jews. Of the 21 Nobel laureates among Russians, even more: of 21 Russians, nine are Jews. 40% of world chess champions, guess who? I can list endlessly. In any branches of science, art, literature. Everywhere. Is it worth it? You still can not convince. And jeans, which were also invented by the Jews, I suppose, wear.
    Jesus, Judah, the Jews - what does this have to do with the delivery of the C-300 complex? Moreover, this purely theological issue has long been resolved by the hierarchs of the Christian faith. Which at the highest level humbly apologized to the Jews for religious persecution. And besides everything else, they stated that Jesus consciously sacrificed himself, fulfilling his destiny for the atonement of the sins of mankind. This is not to say that for billions of believers and unbelievers: Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Muslims, Baha'is, Lamaists, atheists and agnostics, this story is not at all interesting. Or, in your language: "on the drum."
    We are a tiny nation and survived not because, but in spite of. The survival and prosperity of Israel is based on faith in Gd (Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism) and Zionism.
    1. Tania Offline
      Tania 20 February 2020 09: 31
      -2
      • 0
      • 2
      ... Well, again and again: "we are the most," ... and the jeans are right there ... "Don’t make yourself an idol" ... But I can imagine what happened to Russia, do not be in the basement of Ipatiev of your patron, the first one and the one who warned - using the rest for shots !!
      1. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 10: 13
        0
        • 1
        • 1
        ... Ah, and "forbidden" ... aptly because?! ..
      2. Arkharov Offline
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 20 February 2020 13: 46
        +1
        • 1
        • 0
        Would you deign to speak more clearly? In your ignorant and meaningless garbage, is it difficult to understand "who was standing on whom?"
  • gorenina91 Offline
    gorenina91 (Irina) 16 February 2020 08: 32
    +2
    • 3
    • 1
    According to statistics, in the Second World War, only in the ranks of the Red Army took part 500000 Jews, 200000 of whom died in the fighting. 220 thousand Jews were officers, 305 Jews were generals and admirals. The total percentage of draft tension in the Red Army was 24%, among Jews 27%. About 200000 thousand Jews were awarded military orders and medals. The Gold Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union awarded 177 Jews.

    - Here I personally agree with many things ...- from the above ...
    - But personally, I am a specific person and I was always surprised that the exploits performed by the Jews during the Second World War all remained “in sight”, i.e. an exact description of the feat most accomplished by a Jew was always given and an exact account of what was happening (as if every Jew had his own personal "secretary-chronograph") ...
    - But war is war ... many things just remained unclear ...- how many graves of the "Unknown Soldier" (all this speaks for itself) ... - But here everything is clear and precise ... - so much Jews accomplished feats and how they were accomplished, etc ...- and always in detail and scrupulously ... - No, personally, I do not deny and do not at all try to belittle the exploits committed by people of Jewish nationality ... - I’m just struck by the constant " specifics and details "of all these accomplished feats ...
    - Here we take for comparison the “Siberian divisions”, which broke the Germans into the Second World War so much that they made a huge contribution to the turning point of this war, because they were well trained, well armed and well equipped; and also the fact that they were recruited from Siberian regions and had already been soldered in advance by a single "Siberian community" and a single "Siberian way of life", i.e. - it was already prepared in advance, very suitable for war, very valuable human material ... - It is only a pity that these our "Siberian divisions" were so ineptly and bloodyly used and used by our "commander generals" ... - It's a pity ...
    - So ...- and what feats did the Siberians accomplish ??? - Yes, there are a lot of Heroes of the Soviet Union and Knights of other awards (but the Siberians fought not only in the Siberian Divisions, but simply as part of the Red Army) ... - And what ??? - Mostly the lost Siberians ... are mass graves ...- And how did they die and under what circumstances - this is all in “general terms” ... - And not only among Siberians this is ...- and among the other fallen a soldier is all the time ... - How he died, when, under what circumstances ...- everything is very approximately ...
    - But as for the Jews who fought ... - then there are "statistics" and "specifics" ...- always at the highest level ...
    - I don’t want to betray doubts, and I don’t want to offend anyone .. but somehow it all looks ......
    1. Alexzn Offline
      Alexzn (Alexander) 16 February 2020 09: 37
      +1
      • 2
      • 1
      Quote: gorenina91
      According to statistics, in the Second World War, only in the ranks of the Red Army took part 500000 Jews, 200000 of whom died in the fighting. 220 thousand Jews were officers, 305 Jews were generals and admirals. The total percentage of draft tension in the Red Army was 24%, among Jews 27%. About 200000 thousand Jews were awarded military orders and medals. The Gold Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union awarded 177 Jews.

      - Here I personally agree with many things ...- from the above ...
      - But personally, I am a specific person and I was always surprised that the exploits performed by the Jews during the Second World War all remained “in sight”, i.e. an exact description of the feat most accomplished by a Jew was always given and an exact account of what was happening (as if every Jew had his own personal "secretary-chronograph") ...
      - But war is war ... many things just remained unclear ...- how many graves of the "Unknown Soldier" (all this speaks for itself) ... - But here everything is clear and precise ... - so much Jews accomplished feats and how they were accomplished, etc ...- and always in detail and scrupulously ... - No, personally, I do not deny and do not at all try to belittle the exploits committed by people of Jewish nationality ... - I’m just struck by the constant " specifics and details "of all these accomplished feats ...
      - Here we take for comparison the “Siberian divisions”, which broke the Germans into the Second World War so much that they made a huge contribution to the turning point of this war, because they were well trained, well armed and well equipped; and also the fact that they were recruited from Siberian regions and had already been soldered in advance by a single "Siberian community" and a single "Siberian way of life", i.e. - it was already prepared in advance, very suitable for war, very valuable human material ... - It is only a pity that these our "Siberian divisions" were so ineptly and bloodyly used and used by our "commander generals" ... - It's a pity ...
      - So ...- and what feats did the Siberians accomplish ??? - Yes, there are a lot of Heroes of the Soviet Union and Knights of other awards (but the Siberians fought not only in the Siberian Divisions, but simply as part of the Red Army) ... - And what ??? - Mostly the lost Siberians ... are mass graves ...- And how did they die and under what circumstances - this is all in “general terms” ... - And not only among Siberians this is ...- and among the other fallen a soldier is all the time ... - How he died, when, under what circumstances ...- everything is very approximately ...
      - But as for the Jews who fought ... - then there are "statistics" and "specifics" ...- always at the highest level ...
      - I don’t want to betray doubts, and I don’t want to offend anyone .. but somehow it all looks ......

      And what follows from this? Except that:
      1. Siberians poorly honor the memory of their victims
      2. Sibiryakov was not accused of fighting in Tashkent (accordingly, there was no need to prove anything with statistics).
      1. gorenina91 Offline
        gorenina91 (Irina) 16 February 2020 10: 26
        +2
        • 3
        • 1
        And what follows from this? Except that:
        1. Siberians poorly honor the memory of their victims
        2. Sibiryakov was not accused of fighting in Tashkent (accordingly, there was no need to prove anything with statistics).

        - From this it follows that you are raving ... - Once again I explain:
        1. Siberian soldiers are honored both in Siberia and everywhere ... - But there are a lot of fallen unknown .., a lot of graves for the "Unknown Soldier" - and not only the fallen Siberians, but also other soldiers ... - But about the fighters Jews - on the contrary ... - everything is known in detail and "documented" confirmed ... - as if someone specially documented all this and kept a chronology of events ... - That's all, and no more ...
        - And if you accuse the Siberians of the fact that "they fought in Tashkent", then it is precisely the fact that some Americans, the British and the French won the WWII ... - such a "conclusion" immediately suggests itself ...
        1. Tramp1812 Offline
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 11: 08
          0
          • 2
          • 2
          You have raised an interesting question. And the answer to it, as it seems to me, is not as simple and unambiguous as it seems.
          But I will try. First of all, Jews are a very small people, with a tendency characteristic of all small ethnic groups to distinguish "their own". Everywhere. It comes to anecdotal situations. Once, in a conversation with me, the Ossetians quite seriously stated that most of the GSS are, of course, Ossetians. I told this as a joke to my friend the Jew, who immediately reacted, without a shadow of humor, saying that what nonsense: of course the Jews. It would seem that this can exhaust my answer. But it is with respect to Jews that there are nuances. Jews are the only nation in the world that professes Judaism. Due to the loyalty of their religion over two thousand years of Galut and persecution, tons of all kinds of fables have accumulated around Jews. Including about courage, courage, perseverance. And only in a negative way. But this is not so. The natural reaction of the Jews is to refute the prevailing stereotypes. Including - and in part of the participation of Jews in wars. Silence of the role of Jews in participation in the Second World War took place at the state level. Erenburg's Black Book was banned from publication, the nationality of Jewish heroes was not indicated, or it was indicated that they were Russian. As in the case of Admiral Welf Konovalov, or Kunikov, or Masha Bruskina. For attempts to publish a list of Jewish GSS - the initiators even were shot. Oil was added fuel to the publication of the directive A. Zhdanov. about the fact that Jews were awarded limitedly. This was used by opponents of Russia. For example, the whole world knows the story of Pechersky, who was not released to the States at the premiere of a film about him. And after the collapse of the USSR, they rushed to the other extreme: to correct mistakes. And that’s all. And I agree with the post of my fellow tribesman, who correctly writes that other nations did not reproach for participating in the Second World War on the Tashkent front. And the last one. In almost every Jewish family, including mine, one or both parents fought. Therefore, such emotional responses.
          1. Tania Offline
            Tania 20 February 2020 09: 43
            -2
            • 0
            • 2
            ... and I knew families who stayed in Tashkent ... Well, the war happened all around, because it’s against you: so you file this robbery, and it’s not a sin for you to fight !!
  • Vkd dvk Offline
    Vkd dvk (Victor) 16 February 2020 10: 57
    +1
    • 2
    • 1
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.

    About the story. Not in the know, whose initiative was mainly in the creation of the state of Israel? And the change in policy in Khrushchev’s times regarding Israel was caused by the aggressive behavior of this still under-state towards its neighbors. The USSR has always been interested in peace and quiet in the Middle East. Penguins, and not the USSR, pursued a policy of controlled chaos far from its borders, and Israel was that sledgehammer that destroys the world.
    1. Tramp1812 Offline
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 20: 08
      +2
      • 3
      • 1
      Quote: wkd dvk
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.

      About the story. Not in the know, whose initiative was mainly in the creation of the state of Israel? And the change in policy in Khrushchev’s times regarding Israel was caused by the aggressive behavior of this still under-state towards its neighbors. The USSR has always been interested in peace and quiet in the Middle East. Penguins, and not the USSR, pursued a policy of controlled chaos far from its borders, and Israel was that sledgehammer that destroys the world.

      In the know, you are not in the know. And not in the subject. The initiative to rebuild Israel came from an assimilated Hungarian Jew, journalist Theodor Herzl. Who attended the anti-Semitic trial in Paris over the captain - Jew Dreyfus. Herzl is considered the founder of political Zionism. He managed to secure the support of Baron Edmond Rothschild, who, along with the Zionist Fund, financed the purchase of the most dead and abandoned lands in Eretz Yisrael. The creation of Israel was initiated by the Jews themselves, and only Jews. The British supported it at the first stage. Then they changed their minds. The first big Aliya was mainly from Russia. In the United Nations, when voting on the creation of Israel, most countries supported, three votes were given by the USSR, the United States also voted in favor. Stalin had his own interest: to create Israel as, as he put it, "a thorn in the ass of Great Britain." Not broken off. The USSR can be credited with the fact that through Czechoslovakia, by the way, the supply of arms to the young state was exorbitantly expensive. Israel has not received a penny from the USSR or another country. And I received no help. Everyone was sure that the Arabs would tear Israel to dust. And they themselves were sure of it. Gold weapons were received by Golda Meir from American Jews. She very intelligibly explained to the wealthy American Jews who gathered at Kornegi Hall the following. I convey from my own words from memory, but the speech is simply amazing:

      In a few days, a Jewish state will be created that the Arabs will attack. The best of us will die, this is obvious. But it’s also obvious, she continued, that the Jews would not surrender to the mercy of the Jerusalem Mufti. But to win, courage alone is not enough. We need money to purchase weapons. And if I speak now, then this is not tomorrow, but today. The fate of 450 Jews depends on the fate of XNUMX thousand Jews. One does not need to be a prophet to understand that if the Jews of Palestine are destroyed, then soon all Jewry in the world will perish. And our two thousand year old hopes will fall to dust. It is not for you to decide whether we live or die. But it's up to you whether we win or lose.

      According to Golda Meir herself, after her speech in the hall there was grave silence. And she thought she had failed. Only a few minutes later there was a fantastic ovation. Many cried. Checks, an unprecedented case for America, were written out on the spot. Gold needed to raise $ 5 million, she raised 50 ... An amount unprecedented in those days. And where does Stalin or the USSR? In fact, the state of Israel was created in the early twenties of the last century. And his official proclamation was only a formality.
      1. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 46
        -1
        • 0
        • 1
        ... in the twenties ... was created ...

        - Hmm ... under whose patronage ?! Well, then they settled ...
  • Tramp1812 Offline
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 12: 04
    +1
    • 3
    • 2
    Quote: Sapsan136
    Almost the whole world does not agree with your statement, but if you and other Jews are pleased to consider yourself smarter than others (see the cartoon about Mowgli), these are your problems ... Unnamed British literature? !!! I pointed out to you the author, the title of the book, either read before writing your stupid things, or share your tales with grandmothers on the stove in Telaviv, they will understand you ... Literature written in the grandees of the USA is only suitable as toilet paper. .

    It's kind of embarrassing to correct a person with an education like yours. But I’ll take a chance. The reflexive verb "good" is written without a soft sign. And the word "grand" means a title, and not a lump sum payment, which is called a grant. Anyway. And about "almost the whole world", you really should not blame me, "PROFESSOR", exaggerating, taking into account your education, your own significance on a global scale. I allow myself to note that Churchill, explaining the absence of anti-Semitism in Great Britain, said:

    We do not have anti-Semitism. Because we do not think Jews are better and smarter than ourselves.

    Do you think so. In vain. Russians are no worse and no more stupid than any nationality, including Jews. I’m telling you as a Jew.
    Essentially the post: Your sources (with illustrations) are “swell”, my links are “kaka”. The approach is clear. But not correct. The Russian author, from your words, Zhirokhov writes for US grants and his (your unread work is toilet paper). But unnamed British literature (you mentioned not several sources, but one, however, with pictures) - a reliable source. But here's a bad luck, the same Winston Spencer Churchill - the grandson of Sir Churchill wrote a bestseller - the most respected throughout the world - "Six Day War." What, toilet paper too? Or a monograph by the first ambassador of the Russian Federation to Israel A.E. The bovina Five Years Among Jews and Foreign Ministers, where he specifically writes about the defeat of the Arab coalitions in the Six Day War and Doomsday War, was written with US grants. Is the ambassador himself an agent of the Mossad? You may be interested in the two-volume edition of Haim Herzog "The Arab-Israeli Wars." Still, the former chief of the General Staff, they would have caught him by the hand. With a lie. In this book, all tables are attached. And it turns out that you are misleading, and even so emotionally. With gross grammatical errors. And operation "Rimon" put upside down. In that battle, Major General Strelnikov, Mubarak, then the Air Force commander of the ARE warned against raising 24 MiGs against 12 Phantoms. Brother Ivanushka did not obey .... And he received it in full. Don’t worry, Academician. What are your years! You will also see the Arabian Dawn on the Desingof Street in Tel Aviv. But you will not see that it is very likely that you will die with the thought that descendants will see. And they will write me a post.
    1. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 16 February 2020 19: 06
      -1
      • 1
      • 2
      Tramp1812
      In “Rimon”, basically, 3 “Mirages” excelled.
      1. Tramp1812 Offline
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 19: 34
        -1
        • 3
        • 4
        I do not argue, there both Mirages and Phantoms worked perfectly well: each of them fulfilled its role. But as for me, the biggest merit of the Israeli ground-based EW service. The flight commander Kamenev was the first to realize that the goals they were led to were a trap. Having correctly orientated himself, he managed to transmit real data to the earth. Then the connection between Soviet planes and the land was interrupted. In fact, everyone fought alone. And you won’t get so much. According to Israeli data, everything lasted 6 minutes, after which the Soviet pilots began to randomly leave the battle. According to Soviet data, they lasted 10 minutes. But in any case, after the collapse of the USSR, of course, the number of losses was recognized - 5 downed planes. Zhirokhov writes that in the heat of battle, the Israelis rushed in pursuit of the scattering opponents, but Benny Peled’s command followed from the ground, returning all the planes to the bases. It was already politics. And the continuation of this story is commonplace: the Soviet air regiment was immediately recalled to its homeland. In fairness, it should be noted that the Soviet pilots, of course, were framed. None of them, unlike their Israeli counterparts, fought in BV conditions. The element of the Russians is cloudy. Well, plus the lack of combat experience, constraint instructions. Although the Israelites noted courage, mastery of technology. But that was not enough. Plus a clear underestimation of the enemy.
    2. Tania Offline
      Tania 20 February 2020 09: 49
      -2
      • 0
      • 2
      ... "God's chosen"! And ... where is he there to you chap. "good" wrote with soft ........?!
  • salama Offline
    salama (Dmitri) 16 February 2020 14: 43
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    Israel? Jews who suffered? The 8 Lamas who have been burnt also have the courage to bomb someone and crush tanks ... who are crushed and throw bombs? Millionth plane flies to bomb the desert. Adik rolled over in his grave.
    1. Tramp1812 Offline
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 20: 11
      0
      • 3
      • 3
      Well, you give! S-300 are silent, and the Jews are to blame ....
      1. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 52
        -1
        • 0
        • 1
        ... The main villainy is the current -izr. there is to peel the weak, so that it would be disgraceful for the strong ..... but not the current one - you have this in genetics !!

        And do not weakly turn your angry little eye to the neofashists, say !! Weak, what ?!
  • Mister who Offline
    Mister who (Max) 16 February 2020 23: 09
    -1
    • 2
    • 3
    But before they were not afraid in Egypt and Israeli fighters calmly beat what changed, Russia is not the USSR, the shadow of an empire. The USSR, together with the social bloc, occupied 40% of the world in trade, and now only 5%, sort of. For new markets you need to fight in any way, like others, so as not to snap your nose. This is a dirty policy, but you need to play it!
    1. Krasnodar Online
      Krasnodar 17 February 2020 00: 43
      0
      • 3
      • 3
      So before and lost their fighters and air defense fighters - it was just hiding from the people.
  • Radikal Offline
    Radikal 17 February 2020 12: 36
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    Quote: Rogue1812
    Quote: Radikal
    Quote: Rogue1812
    Quote: Radikal
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

    You confuse the concepts a bit - do not mix the whole of Russia with those who are currently “steering” it .... sad

    1. Do you take the liberty of asserting on behalf of Russia that it vitally needs a war with Israel?
    2. I am not a Russian, you know better, of course, but it seems to me that the problem of the war with Israel, Russia is currently less concerned than, say, solving the water supply to Crimea and improving the welfare of the population.
    3. How is Israel threatening Russia and has it ever been threatened?

    I explain to both, or both (for your nicknames I do not see - what gender are you lol ) You are talking about war here, and there you are doing it on your borders. This is the first. Secondly, why does your Benya go to the guarantor every time before striking Syria? Asks permission? They had a good little boob! As for the alleged “necessity” of the war with Israel, you are pedaling this question in your commentary ... sad

    You are not only a radical, but also an extremist. And you take the liberty of expressing your extremist views on behalf of all of Russia. Which is unfortunate.

    You don’t need to translate arrows, if you delve into history, we will see that you yourself have been successfully engaged in extremism-terrorism from time immemorial .... sad
  • Vkd dvk Offline
    Vkd dvk (Victor) 17 February 2020 19: 47
    0
    • 1
    • 1
    Quote: Rogue1812
    Quote: wkd dvk
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.

    About the story. Not in the know, whose initiative was mainly in the creation of the state of Israel? And the change in policy in Khrushchev’s times regarding Israel was caused by the aggressive behavior of this still under-state towards its neighbors. The USSR has always been interested in peace and quiet in the Middle East. Penguins, and not the USSR, pursued a policy of controlled chaos far from its borders, and Israel was that sledgehammer that destroys the world.

    In the know, you are not in the know. And not in the subject. The initiative to rebuild Israel came from an assimilated Hungarian Jew, journalist Theodor Herzl. Who attended the anti-Semitic trial in Paris over the captain - Jew Dreyfus. Herzl is considered the founder of political Zionism. He managed to secure the support of Baron Edmond Rothschild, who, along with the Zionist Fund, financed the purchase of the most dead and abandoned lands in Eretz Yisrael. The creation of Israel was initiated by the Jews themselves, and only Jews. The British supported it at the first stage. Then they changed their minds. The first big Aliya was mainly from Russia. In the United Nations, when voting on the creation of Israel, most countries supported, three votes were given by the USSR, the United States also voted in favor. Stalin had his own interest: to create Israel as, as he put it, "a thorn in the ass of Great Britain." Not broken off. The USSR can be credited with the fact that through Czechoslovakia, by the way, the supply of arms to the young state was exorbitantly expensive. Israel has not received a penny from the USSR or another country. And I received no help. Everyone was sure that the Arabs would tear Israel to dust. And they themselves were sure of it. Gold weapons were received by Golda Meir from American Jews. She very intelligibly explained to the wealthy American Jews who gathered at Kornegi Hall the following. I convey from my own words from memory, but the speech is simply amazing:

    In a few days, a Jewish state will be created that the Arabs will attack. The best of us will die, this is obvious. But it’s also obvious, she continued, that the Jews would not surrender to the mercy of the Jerusalem Mufti. But to win, courage alone is not enough. We need money to purchase weapons. And if I speak now, then this is not tomorrow, but today. The fate of 450 Jews depends on the fate of XNUMX thousand Jews. One does not need to be a prophet to understand that if the Jews of Palestine are destroyed, then soon all Jewry in the world will perish. And our two thousand year old hopes will fall to dust. It is not for you to decide whether we live or die. But it's up to you whether we win or lose.

    According to Golda Meir herself, after her speech in the hall there was grave silence. And she thought she had failed. Only a few minutes later there was a fantastic ovation. Many cried. Checks, an unprecedented case for America, were written out on the spot. Gold needed to raise $ 5 million, she raised 50 ... An amount unprecedented in those days. And where does Stalin or the USSR? In fact, the state of Israel was created in the early twenties of the last century. And his official proclamation was only a formality.

    It’s impossible to think of more garbage. At the initiative of some anonymous Jew, someone will organize and finance the creation of the state. Pisarchukov, inventing ideal humanity, in the communist empire was numerous. And who left documentary marks- 400 years ago, sitting on a cabinet, and dreaming of ..... Tommaso Campanella and his City of the Sun.
    So is your long-spotlight. When the POWER wanted to do something like this, only then did the province go to write.
    1. Tramp1812 Offline
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 17 February 2020 23: 08
      0
      • 1
      • 1
      Quote: wkd dvk
      Quote: Rogue1812
      Quote: wkd dvk
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.

      About the story. Not in the know, whose initiative was mainly in the creation of the state of Israel? And the change in policy in Khrushchev’s times regarding Israel was caused by the aggressive behavior of this still under-state towards its neighbors. The USSR has always been interested in peace and quiet in the Middle East. Penguins, and not the USSR, pursued a policy of controlled chaos far from its borders, and Israel was that sledgehammer that destroys the world.

      In the know, you are not in the know. And not in the subject. The initiative to rebuild Israel came from an assimilated Hungarian Jew, journalist Theodor Herzl. Who attended the anti-Semitic trial in Paris over the captain - Jew Dreyfus. Herzl is considered the founder of political Zionism. He managed to secure the support of Baron Edmond Rothschild, who, along with the Zionist Fund, financed the purchase of the most dead and abandoned lands in Eretz Yisrael. The creation of Israel was initiated by the Jews themselves, and only Jews. The British supported it at the first stage. Then they changed their minds. The first big Aliya was mainly from Russia. At the UN, the majority of countries supported the creation of Israel by voting, the USSR gave three votes, the United States also voted in favor. Stalin had his own interest: to create Israel as, as he put it, "a thorn in the ass of Great Britain." Not broken off. The USSR can be credited with the fact that through Czechoslovakia, by the way, the supply of arms to the young state was exorbitantly expensive. Israel has not received a penny from the USSR or another country. And I received no help. Everyone was sure that the Arabs would tear Israel to dust. And they themselves were sure of it. Gold weapons were received by Golda Meir from American Jews. She very intelligibly explained to the wealthy American Jews gathered at Carnegie Hall the following. I convey from my own words from memory, but the speech is simply amazing:

      In a few days, a Jewish state will be created that the Arabs will attack. The best of us will die, this is obvious. But it’s also obvious, she continued, that the Jews would not surrender to the mercy of the Jerusalem Mufti. But to win, courage alone is not enough. We need money to purchase weapons. And if I speak now, then this is not tomorrow, but today. The fate of 450 Jews depends on the fate of XNUMX thousand Jews. One does not need to be a prophet to understand that if the Jews of Palestine are destroyed, then soon all Jewry in the world will perish. And our two thousand year old hopes will fall to dust. It is not for you to decide whether we live or die. But it's up to you whether we win or lose.

      According to Golda Meir herself, after her speech in the hall there was grave silence. And she thought she had failed. Only a few minutes later there was a fantastic ovation. Many cried. Checks, an unprecedented case for America, were written out on the spot. Gold needed to raise $ 5 million, she raised 50 ... An amount unprecedented in those days. And where does Stalin or the USSR? In fact, the state of Israel was created in the early twenties of the last century. And his official proclamation was only a formality.

      It’s impossible to think of more garbage. At the initiative of some anonymous Jew, someone will organize and finance the creation of the state. Pisarchukov, inventing ideal humanity, in the communist empire was numerous. And who left documentary marks - 400 years ago, sitting on the plinth, and dreaming of ..... Tommaso Campanella and his City of the Sun.
      So is your long-spotlight. When the POWER wanted to do something like this, only then did the province go to write.

      Emotion without argument is not the best way to lead a discussion. Especially if the opponent is not in the subject. As in this case - you. Stalin "combed" in 1948. By this time, the Zionist Foundation, organized by Herzl, had bought up with the money of philanthropists - Nathan Strauss, Lord Montefiore and, of course, Baron Rothschild and other Jews, the land on which Israel now stands.
      Herzl was a secular man, a brilliant journalist and organizer. This is common knowledge. Like the fact that Herzl was at the forefront of the Jewish state. However, a Jew (without pace) Zhvanetsky Mikhail Mikhailovich wrote about the empty dive. I quote literally:

      If one of the debaters is inadequate, then the second is probably the same.

      I finish the argument on this. And then in front of the namesake Michal Mikhalych somehow awkward. I wish you hello. And improve skills.
      1. Tania Offline
        Tania 20 February 2020 10: 24
        -2
        • 0
        • 2
        ... oh, oh, just don’t need Zhvanetsky! I have not heard the worst comedian, I haven’t seen .. I remember how on the "Culture" this one cried: rude, they say, people ... Well, yes, yes ..: the color of the Russian nation that you have destroyed has not yet been restored ... And they also kicked your Dostoevsky: chauvinist, they say; Tolstoy disgusts you: and how, they say, one of the guys was sitting on his knees ... These are at home! WHAT are you doing and not at home? However, you have privatized the entire territory of the planet merciless ...
  • master3 Offline
    master3 (Vitali) 17 February 2020 22: 24
    +3
    • 4
    • 1
    There is a good proverb: “a bad dancer gets in the way”. Either the horizon is incorrect, the Syrians are poorly trained, the Israelis are dishonestly flying, now "the air defense system must be layered," "it is desirable to strengthen it," "requires expensive equipment," etc. Tomorrow, after another successful Israeli attack, there will be another 20 reasons.
    1. Tania Offline
      Tania 20 February 2020 08: 54
      0
      • 1
      • 1
      ... Israel’s successful attack ...

      Hmm .. but why do you need these "successful attacks" on sovereigns ?!
      1. Tramp1812 Offline
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 20 February 2020 09: 28
        0
        • 1
        • 1
        Quote: tania
        ... a successful attack by Israel.
        ... hmm .. but why do you need these “successful attacks” on sovereigns ?!

        So that “SuvIrAns” do not “SuvIrNichalich”.
  • Tania Offline
    Tania 20 February 2020 08: 52
    -1
    • 0
    • 1
    ... I read the "fabrications" of some Nathans and others like them ... MY LORD! Well, after all, wishful thinking is so obvious:

    We are the smartest, greatest, most efficient ...

    And even in the little things - a rogue, after all: "... a reflexive verb ..." and so on ... Well, a man and so on - this verb - dashed off without a soft ...
    1. Tramp1812 Offline
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 20 February 2020 09: 22
      0
      • 1
      • 1
      Quote: tania
      ... I read the "fabrications" of some Nathans and others like them ... MY LORD! Well, after all, wishful thinking is so obvious:

      We are the smartest, greatest, most efficient ...

      And even in the little things - a wicked thing, after all: "... a reflexive verb ..." and so on ... Well, after all, a man and so on - this verb - dashed off without a soft ...

      So this man after remarking "some Nathans and others like them" bothered to fix it. Thanks to us, the Jews, being improved. To the extent of their weak strengths and capabilities.