“Wrong system” air defense: Israel continues to bomb Syria with impunity


In September 2018, as a result of the Israeli pilot’s provocative maneuver, the Russian transport aircraft IL-20 with our troops on board was hit by the Syrian air defense system. The cause of the tragedy that led to the deaths of all Russians was the decision of Tel Aviv to launch an air strike against several targets in Latakia province.


A great public outcry led to the start of Moscow deliveries of Damascus S-300 anti-aircraft systems to Moscow. It was reported that after that the sky over Syria would definitely be taken under the control of Russian air defense systems, and the Israeli air raids would stop. Two years later, it can be stated that this task was never completed. Why did this happen?

The number of IDF air strikes has only recently increased. Most of them achieve the goal, while the Israelis do not suffer losses. Moreover, the Russian-made anti-aircraft systems are seriously affected. For example, on the night of February 6, the S-125M, Buk-M2E air defense systems and the Pantsir-S air defense system owned by the Syrians were damaged. As for the S-300, they continue to remain menacingly silent.

If we put aside emotions, it turns out that there are a whole range of reasons why the promised anti-aircraft dome did not appear over the SAR. And it’s not at all that the Russian air defense systems are “of the wrong system”.

Geopolitics


This is probably the main problem. On the one hand, Russia has allied relations with Syria. On the other hand, they are not ready to fight directly with Israel in the Kremlin over Syria. And it’s good that it’s because it would be a very bad idea. Because of this, Moscow helps Damascus, but without much fanaticism. She also through her fingers looks at the constant attacks of Israeli aircraft against Iranians in the SAR.

Gives some kind of "double-dealing", but such are the realities of modern external policy. In fact, Russian troops organized air defense over their bases in Syria, where they constantly have to fight off UAV raids by pro-Turkish militants.

Yourself all by yourself


Due to the above political attitude, the Syrians and Iranians have to ensure their own security. But this is not all right. Russian-made anti-aircraft systems themselves are a very serious tool, but they are not some kind of absolute “miracle weapon”. For their effective use, a number of conditions must be met.

At firstFirst, you need to deploy an automated radar reconnaissance system, which will quickly issue air defense target designation. That is, we are talking about creating a real network that requires modern and expensive equipment.

Secondly, the air defense system should be layered, consisting of anti-aircraft complexes of various types.

Thirdly, it is advisable to strengthen it with its own aviation fighter wing, which will fly towards Israeli aircraft.

Fourthlyto put it mildly, it will not hurt to deploy an electronic warfare system, without which it is problematic to resist modern aviation.

Fifthly, for the effective operation of these complexes requires a large number of highly qualified personnel.

Has all this been created in Syria in the last two years? Judging by the result, no. Damascus cannot pull all this on its own, and Russia will not fight against Israel instead.

That is why you should not count on the IDF raids stopping. And it’s not at all that our anti-aircraft systems are “of the wrong system”.
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  1. 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 15 February 2020 11: 45
    +5
    Has all this been created in Syria in the last two years? Judging by the result, no. Damascus cannot pull all this on its own, and Russia will not fight against Israel instead.

    Yes, Russia will not fight with Israel for Iranian interests. Everything is very complicated there, mutual interests and contradictions are intertwined into a ball. East, in a word ....
    For those who like to watch technical details, videos from the "younger generation", apparently, the USE does not affect everyone. laughing



    PS I do not give a link to part 1, there is profanity there. winked
  2. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
    Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 15 February 2020 13: 25
    -2
    Regarding the “provocative maneuver”, this can only be believed by people who have no idea how this all happens in practice, and who unconditionally believe the explanations of the Russian Defense Ministry. Experts spat on listening to Konashenkov’s snowstorm. For NON-Specialists - well, at least just ask yourself - how did IL appear in the fire zone? Who gave him the command to land at a time when the Syrian air defense was pounding into the white light? Or in another way - the IL was landing, suddenly F-16 appeared out of nowhere. The Syrians did not know that in their area of ​​fire will be IL? Where is the minimal interaction? Although the second option is generally stupid. In addition, the S-200 missile needs to be highlighted so that it finds a target. In fact, Israeli fighters were already landing at their bases when the Syrians opened fire and fired on everything in a row. It is all a matter of the criminal slovenliness of the Russian commanders and the amazing curvature and squint, as well as the complete lack of professionalism of the Syrian "specialists". But to tell the truth, of course, it was impossible - this would be a complete discredit of the Russian command. As a result, the Israelis did not “seek the truth,” since this made no practical sense — the Russian people would never have been told the truth, and the high command knows perfectly well what was the matter. Political interaction is more important for Israel. At the same time, at his press conference, Konashenkov did not hesitate to go for a direct forgery - he gave out marks of civilian aircraft over Cyprus for marks of Israeli fighters.
    1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 15 February 2020 13: 31
      -7
      And to stop the shelling of Syria by the Israelis is very simple - to force the Shiite Islamofascists, who loudly proclaim the destruction of Israel as their goal, (IRG and Hezbollah) to leave Syria. Just. But alas, neither Russia nor Syria can do this. Therefore, Israel has to act as it does. There is nothing else left. From 1974 to 2013, the Syrian-Israeli border was absolutely calm. Assad knew how the invitation of the Shiite Islamists would end, but he did so. Well, let him now blame himself. And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least.
      1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 15 February 2020 14: 43
        +1
        Natan bruk
        Here is the answer to this lengthy, stupid article.
      2. Kostyar Offline Kostyar
        Kostyar 16 February 2020 10: 21
        0
        And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least.

        Maybe Israel needs the war with Russia least of all ..... It’s not Putin who flies to Israel, how to work, so that)))
      3. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 17 February 2020 15: 07
        0
        Quote: Natan Bruk
        And to stop the shelling of Syria by the Israelis is very simple - to force Shiite Islamofascists

        Firstly, Israel does not touch Israel from Syria. He has a conscious policy of escalating tensions.
        Assad is still not profitable to fight on 3 fronts - Idlib, USA, Israel. Therefore, the Israelis go unpunished.
        But the S-400 completely covers the territory of Israel, and, in principle, can hollow planes directly on take-off - the same preventive measure, destruction before the attack.
  3. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 15 February 2020 14: 41
    -3
    The third point is especially ridiculous. It might be possible to strengthen it (I really want to look at the Iranian "fighter wing"), and it is possible that they will also fly out. But how about flying back?
  4. Port Offline Port
    Port 15 February 2020 16: 32
    +2
    The synagogue, entrenched in the government and the Duma of Russia, is the reason why the Israeli fascists are not touched.
    1. Krasnodar Offline Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 February 2020 13: 33
      0
      The Nazis are legal in Syria - the SSNP party, the second largest after the ruling Ba'ath. Touch Israel? laughing To do this, the Syrian army must be fully restored ... for the next loss to the Israelis.
      1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 17 February 2020 23: 07
        0
        Quote: Krasnodar
        the Syrian army ... for another loss to the Israelis

        The Israelis are no longer the same. When did you climb the land, tanks and infantry for the last time in Lebanon, what happened? Lost 2 tanks, several people, and enthusiasm faded.
        And if Syria will have Iskanders? And will there be a strong rear? Punch to punch, and the Israeli government will fly like plywood over Tel Aviv.
        1. Krasnodar Offline Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 17 February 2020 23: 10
          +2
          The Israelis are no longer the same. When did you climb the land, tanks and infantry for the last time in Lebanon, what happened? Lost 2 tanks, several people, and enthusiasm faded.

          I am a participant in those events - who told you this? laughing

          And if Syria will have Iskanders? And will there be a strong rear? Punch to punch, and the Israeli government will fly like plywood over Tel Aviv.

          Due to the strike by Iskanders on Tel Aviv, it certainly will not fly. It will fly by if, after that, at least one whole residential block remains from Damascus.
          1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
            Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 19 February 2020 13: 49
            0
            Quote: Krasnodar
            It will fly by if, after that, at least one whole residential block remains from Damascus.

            And there is at least one whole block if the PMC of the IG was on the outskirts? And when the IS was pressed, through Israel they were brought to Jordan.
            That's just the point, now Syria has no fear of bombing. All the same, they will not be able to rebuild the economy, as well as Lebanon. And to receive moral satisfaction from the devastation in the Jewish quarters of Jerusalem is always pleasant.
            Do you think the Hamas are bullying in Israel with the goal of destroying something? No, just for fun, brag to the boys.
  5. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 15 February 2020 17: 22
    0
    First, first you need to deploy an automated radar reconnaissance system that will quickly issue air defense target designation. That is, we are talking about creating a real network that requires modern and expensive equipment.

    Secondly, the air defense system should be layered, consisting of anti-aircraft complexes of various types.

    Thirdly, it is advisable to strengthen it with its own aviation fighter wing, which will fly towards Israeli aircraft.

    Fourthly, to put it mildly, it will not hurt to deploy an electronic warfare system, without which it is difficult to resist modern aviation.

    Fifth, for the effective operation of these complexes, a large number of highly qualified personnel are required.

    - Oh, well ...
    - Well, find and put out my comment a year ago, where personally, I have already set out in detail about this ...
    - And personally, I already wrote that this (listed) is clearly not enough ... - Russia in Syria needs to deploy an entire fortified area (if not an entire Russian military district) with armored vehicles (tank and motorized infantry divisions); two or three fighter and bomber regiments with underground hangars for our Russian VKS; with underground fuel storage facilities; with repair and construction divisions, deployed services for setting up maintenance of all kinds of equipment and various military structures; with underground storage facilities and arsenals for storing weapons and ammunition; and of course - with a whole air defense complex, where professionally trained Russian military specialists will conduct round-the-clock combat duty ... - Yes, it’s all expensive, but it’s impossible otherwise ... - and it will then pay off for Russia ... - and create broad prospects for Russia ...
    - Here ... - the only way if Russia is going to achieve something in the Middle. In the East ... - And today, Russia has every chance (under the general guise) to deploy and realize all this ... - Otherwise, Russia will soon have to collect money and leave Syria ...
    - But to the author of the article ... - anyway ... respectman from me and plus ...
  6. Radikal Offline Radikal
    Radikal 15 February 2020 19: 50
    +1
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

    You confuse the concepts a little - you shouldn't confuse all of Russia with those who "rule" it at the present time ... sad
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 20: 20
      0
      Quote: Radikal
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

      You confuse the concepts a little - you shouldn't confuse all of Russia with those who "rule" it at the present time ... sad

      1. Do you take the liberty of asserting on behalf of Russia that it vitally needs a war with Israel?
      2. I am not a Russian, you know better, of course, but it seems to me that the problem of the war with Israel is less of a concern to Russia now than, say, solving the water supply to Crimea and improving the welfare of the population.
      3. How is Israel threatening Russia and has it ever been threatened?
      1. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 08: 59
        -1
        ... Zionist politics - yes, yes, threatened and threatened! Yes, Mr. Chabad ...
        1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 20 February 2020 18: 04
          0
          The entire "Zionist policy" of Israel in relation to the USSR, and then to the Russian Federation, as a legal successor, was reduced to only one thing: "Let my people go!" The USSR was stubborn, the Russian Federation let go. Israel didn't need anything else. There are 160 thousand Jews in Russia today. But in reality - this is an exaggerated figure, since those leaving for permanent residence in Israel retain Russian citizenship. There are no Jews left in the Russian Federation, absolutely from the word. But according to official data, there are 14000 illegal immigrants from Russia in Israel. What have they forgotten with us, eh? And trade turnover and cooperation between Israel and Russia amount to more than 3 billion euros annually, there is a visa-free regime. Many hundreds of thousands of tourists from Russia visit our country every year. Unlike the United States and European countries, Israel did not impose sanctions against the Russian Federation. So, no - it does not threaten. And he never threatened.
    2. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 15 February 2020 20: 42
      -1
      And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.
  7. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 20: 13
    +4
    The author, very substantively, point by point, outlined a number of necessary conditions for the functioning of the S-300. If this is true, then the supply of an air defense complex, and even free of charge - the supply of the Assad regime with expensive scrap metal. That system. The question is logical: what was it supplied for? Moreover, according to the author's version, Russia is not going to fight with Israel. And yet, menacingly silent complexes have been installed. If for the moral support of Assad, it is unconvincing. Even grotesque somewhere. Perhaps there are some secret agreements with Israel and "red lines" are indicated, which it should not cross? Unlikely. Israeli specialists, moreover Russian-speaking, publicly and clearly explained on Israeli television that the S-300 is archaic. And it is amazed at the same time as the fighter is illuminated. Straight on the beam. That is not scary. Initially. And now, with the activation of an ally, albeit not an ally, even a partner of the Russian Federation - Turkey in Syria and Libya, inevitably it seems that, perhaps, the S-300 will be used against Ankara. The author raised an interesting question, I am sure there will be a sufficient number of comments. I would like to see the logical conclusion of the publication and get an answer to the question: why were the S-300s delivered to the territory controlled by Bashar al-Assad?
  8. Port Offline Port
    Port 15 February 2020 20: 50
    0
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    about the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest.

    It’s better to tell how the brave Zionists fought in the 41-45 years, besides the Holocaust, is there anything to be proud of?
    PS We got with your chatter, how terrible you are with the Arabs.
    1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 15 February 2020 21: 04
      -6
      For the illiterate, there is still something to be proud of. By the number of Heroes of the Soviet Union, Jews are in 5th place. Moreover, in absolute terms. If the percentage of the total number is much higher. And they were drafted into the army in exactly the same way as all the others. But people like you surrendered, and in the occupied territories became elders, licked boots for the Germans and helped them catch partisans.
      1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 22: 44
        +3
        Quote: Natan Bruk
        For the illiterate, there is still something to be proud of. By the number of Heroes of the Soviet Union, Jews are in 5th place.

        The leader of the world proletariat V.I. Lenin noted that

        Facts, comrades, this is not only a convincing, but certainly an evidentiary thing.

        According to statistics, in the Second World War, only in the ranks of the Red Army took part 500000 Jews, 200000 of whom died in the fighting. 220 thousand Jews were officers, 305 Jews were generals and admirals. The total percentage of draft tension in the Red Army was 24%, among Jews 27%. About 200000 thousand Jews were awarded military orders and medals. The Gold Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union awarded 177 Jews. Among the most outstanding feat, Marshals Rokossovsky and Zhukov, each independently from each other, singled out the feat of the anti-tanker Jew Dyskin. Dear Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev, for the rest of his life boasted of the feat of the Jew Kunikov Caesar Lvovich, and the most successful and fearless divers were the Jews Bogorad and Fisanovich.
        At the beginning of 1943, in the number of awarded Heroes of the Soviet Union, Jews came in third place. After that, in the same 1943, the secretary of the Central Committee Zhdanov A.S. sent a directive to the troops to reward Jews in limited numbers. For example, tanker Ione Degen was sent by his comrades three times to be awarded the rank of GSS. And three times in the last resort he was denied. Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov, looking through the lists of the fighters submitted to the GSS for the storming of Berlin, personally crossed out all the Jews, saying: "We have already fulfilled the plan for the Jews." The legendary Jew of Pechersky, the leader of the only successful uprising in the Sobibor concentration camp, was sent to the penal battalion. And after a severe injury, he was presented to the Order of the Red Star. So the military commissar struck out the award, replacing it with the medal "For Military Merit". And then they hid in prison as a rootless cosmopolitan. Nevertheless, Jews are currently in fourth place in terms of the number of GSS. And this is in absolute numbers.
      2. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 01
        -2
        ... Nathan, who is "like you"? Throughout the war, your mother took care of you, fed you, and there were conscripts ... Have you heard anything about Kiselev's detachment ?!
    2. Krasnodar Offline Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 February 2020 13: 39
      +2
      Quote: Port

      It’s better to tell how the brave Zionists fought in the 41-45 years, besides the Holocaust, is there anything to be proud of?
      PS We got with your chatter, how terrible you are with the Arabs.

      In 41-45, the Zionists did not have their own army and their own state. )))
      1. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 10: 03
        -2
        ... Zionists in spirit WAS ALWAYS !!
        1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 20 February 2020 18: 11
          0
          Quote: tania
          ... Zionists in spirit - WAS ALWAYS !! ,,

          But this is true. I completely agree. I have always been and remain a Zionist. Convinced, moreover. If you use the Soviet newspeak: I am a terry Zionist. And obscurantism, moreover!
  9. Port Offline Port
    Port 15 February 2020 21: 09
    +2
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    For the illiterate, there is something to be proud of

    There is nothing to be proud of the word at all, all that you have is someone else’s, stolen or stolen, all that you have written through the word is lies and lies, except for Judas. Here the Romans are witnesses, do not get out.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  10. Port Offline Port
    Port 15 February 2020 21: 17
    +1
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    But people like you surrendered, and in the occupied territories became


    These "heroes" of the Soviet Union?
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 22: 55
      +1
      Quote: Port
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      But people like you surrendered, and in the occupied territories became


      These "heroes" of the Soviet Union?

      Why not ? Why did you, for example, the legendary Serebryansky Yakov Isaakovich - the pride of foreign intelligence of Soviet Russia did not please?
      1. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 09
        -2
        ... Well, at the same hour, the information is on the blank ... You are working "promptly" ... Well, after all, the war was organized only against you, as we understand; you, or your ancestors had, have income in this regard - for moral ... - but neither my mother, nor grandmother, who lost their warriors drafted into the Red Army !! .. So why not fight yours, and not serve in the agents ... - Is it weak ?? !! ..
    2. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 16 February 2020 02: 28
      -5
      In the Gulag, pests were re-educated. And about the Heroes of the Soviet Union they wrote to you at the top. These are not the ones that served the Nazis, their boots were licked, and they helped to catch partisans.
      1. Dzafdet Offline Dzafdet
        Dzafdet (Sergei) 17 February 2020 09: 46
        -1
        I read the lists of the repressed in our town in the 1937-1940s. Some peasants, workers, intelligentsia. A pair of priests and that’s all ... Was it necessary to kill them? Jews need it. They staged two revolutions and civil wars in Russia. And now they are full in the manual ...
      2. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 13
        -1
        ... in the Gulag, pests were re-educated ...

        Here it is DAaaaaa !!! He himself served there, about the same thing! Why - not having sat out in the trenches, is already the best variation yet - according to your logic, Monsignor !! !! !!
  11. Radikal Offline Radikal
    Radikal 15 February 2020 22: 27
    +2
    Quote: Rogue1812
    Quote: Radikal
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

    You confuse the concepts a little - you shouldn't confuse all of Russia with those who "rule" it at the present time ... sad

    1. Do you take the liberty of asserting on behalf of Russia that it vitally needs a war with Israel?
    2. I am not a Russian, you know better, of course, but it seems to me that the problem of the war with Israel, Russia is currently less concerned than, say, solving the water supply to Crimea and improving the welfare of the population.
    3. How is Israel threatening Russia and has it ever been threatened?

    I explain to both, or both (for your nicknames I do not see what gender you are. lol ) You are talking about war here, and there you are doing this at your borders. This is the first thing. Secondly, why does your Benya go to the guarantor every time before attacking Syria? Are you asking for permission? They have a good melshboch! As far as the alleged "necessity" of a war with Israel is concerned, you are pedaling this question in your comments ... sad
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 15 February 2020 23: 02
      0
      Quote: Radikal
      Quote: Rogue1812
      Quote: Radikal
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

      You confuse the concepts a little - you shouldn't confuse all of Russia with those who "rule" it at the present time ... sad

      1. Do you take the liberty of asserting on behalf of Russia that it vitally needs a war with Israel?
      2. I am not a Russian, you know better, of course, but it seems to me that the problem of the war with Israel, Russia is currently less concerned than, say, solving the water supply to Crimea and improving the welfare of the population.
      3. How is Israel threatening Russia and has it ever been threatened?

      I explain to both, or both (for your nicknames I do not see - what gender are you lol ) You are talking about war here, and there you are doing this at your borders. This is the first thing. Secondly, why does your Benya go to the guarantor every time before attacking Syria? Are you asking for permission? They have a good melshboch! As far as the alleged "necessity" of a war with Israel is concerned, you are pedaling this question in your comments ... sad

      You are not only a radical, but also an extremist. And you take the liberty of expressing your extremist views on behalf of all of Russia. Which is unfortunate.
      1. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 20
        -1
        ... Already an "extremist" ... Our IL was shot down: there was no investigation, the names of the victims were not given to us; in the morning Netanyahu in the Kremlin, and in the evening they bomb our allies - with regularity; I'm not even talking about the Hanukkahs in the Kremlin, apartments donated to aunts in Israel - on behalf of the RF President, but at my expense ..; pension to all adults. to the population of Izr. - also at my expense - and so on ..; to list - it can be sickening ...
  12. Alex russia Offline Alex russia
    Alex russia (Georges Miloslavsky) 16 February 2020 00: 06
    +2
    Israel is not our enemy, our traditional enemy is Turkey.
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko (Alekcandr Sokolenko) 16 February 2020 08: 19
      +1
      Citizens, keep money in a savings bank, if of course you have it.

      And brains - in the head, and also (of course) - do not look for the enemy far, look behind your back, like Vakula - the Devil, and you will not be mistaken. In the modern world, the main enemy is the inability to recognize the direction and depth of aggression (both from the outside and from the inside).
  13. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 00: 31
    +3
    You can put Israel in its place, and you even need to ... It’s not a great power, but it’s not impudent ... It is another matter that you first need to resolve the issue in Syria with Turkey and the United States, and not wage a war on three fronts ...
    1. Natan bruk Offline Natan bruk
      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 16 February 2020 02: 30
      -1
      In 1967 and 1973 the USSR was already trying to "put Israel in place." Tell how it ended?
      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 02: 46
        +6
        The result was that Israel lost two-thirds of its aircraft ..
        1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 06: 03
          +2
          Quote: Sapsan136
          The result was that Israel lost two-thirds of its aircraft ..

          Let me remind you that the topic of the publication is different: the formidable silence of the S-300 air defense system during Hel Aavir attacks on enemy military targets. Why replace it, and even with the clearly unrealistic need for priority in the destruction by Russia of Turkey, the United States and, of course, Israel? And this despite the fact that Russia has diplomatic relations and economic ties with the United States, Turkey, and Israel.
          Moreover, you are citing untrue data on the alleged losses of Israel in the 1967 and 1973 wars. Only in order to illustrate by the method of Peter the Great, so that, to put it mildly, "everyone's incompetence is visible," I will cite generally accepted data. In 1967, the Arab coalition in the war against Israel lost 100 percent of its aircraft. Israel - 46 aircraft out of 500. That is, less than 10%.
          And here are the data on the Yom Kippur War: Total forces: 375 soldiers at the beginning of the war and 000 by the end, 415 tanks, 000 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, 1700 guns and 3000 aircraft. (Israel)

          General forces: 993 soldiers, 000 tanks, 3630 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, 4000 guns, 1720 aircraft and 480 helicopters. (Arab coalition).

          Losses from 109-120 [10] [11] [12] aircraft and helicopters 15 UAVs [13]

          810 tanks and armored vehicles (irrevocably) [12]

          от 2500-3000[11][14][15][16] погибших.

          from 7500-9000 [11] [14] to 20 [specify (obs.)] [000] wounded
          326-530 prisoners [11] [12] (Israel).

          368-447 aircraft and helicopters
          1775 tanks and armored vehicles (irrevocably) [12]

          from 8500-9000 to 18 dead.
          from 19 - 500 to 19 wounded. (United Arab Forces).
          Israel’s losses in planes and helicopters amounted to less than one third. And this is when the effect of surprise was achieved by Arab opponents, who this time attacked Israel with the help of 18 Arab states + Cuba, North Korea, and Pakistan. And even .... Uganda.
          CONCLUSION: in order not to look ridiculous, do not wishful thinking.
          1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 11: 00
            +4
            Read the British literature about the Israeli Air Force losses, be very surprised, and do not think that someone with a better education than you is stupid, funny ... I advise you to start with the book by Robert Jackson ... "Legendary Fighters", good font, clear and concise exposition, illustrations of aircraft in historical camouflage.
            1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
              Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 11: 29
              0
              Israel has never, in principle, never concealed its losses. Each dead IDF soldier comes home personally from his commander to convey sorrowful news. The name of each deceased is immortalized on a common memorial plaque and is announced throughout the country on the Day of Mourning through the media. Therefore, the losses of Israeli aircraft are known to the last aircraft. The reference to some unnamed "British literature", you see, is unconvincing. In turn, I can recommend a book by Russian author M. Zhirokhov "Wings of Retribution. History of the Israeli Air Force". To start. About your best education: happy for you. I have behind me only the University and the degree of candidate of legal sciences, academic title - associate professor. Therefore, you are at least Ph.D. and a professor. True, it is not entirely clear what can be higher than higher education? Is it perhaps a specialized management structure, such as the Academy of Internal Affairs, or the Academy of the General Staff? I repeat: I'm glad for you. You have better education and the sun shines through the window brighter.
              1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 11: 33
                +3
                Almost the whole world does not agree with your statement, but if you and other Jews are pleased to consider yourself smarter than others (see the cartoon about Mowgli), these are your problems ... Unnamed British literature? !!! I pointed out to you the author, the title of the book, either read before writing your stupid things, or share your tales with grandmothers on the stove in Telaviv, they will understand you ... Literature written in the grandees of the USA is only suitable as toilet paper. .
                1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
                  Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 16 February 2020 19: 20
                  0
                  Sapsan136
                  You remind me of the "academician" from the wonderful film "Give a Book of Complaints", who wrote the "menu" through "and". I wonder what kind of "education is better than yours"? If you don't remember the movie, watch it again.
                  1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 17 February 2020 08: 43
                    +2
                    Technical and military ... Later, for myself, I graduated from the history department ... I doubt that you have a similar one, and whom you remind us can be seen from your rating.
                    1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
                      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 17 February 2020 12: 08
                      -1
                      Sapsan136 My "rating" here is determined by "academicians" like you, and if it were high here, I would be very upset. It means that something in my understanding of the world is completely wrong.
                      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 19 February 2020 10: 48
                        0
                        Oh, you don’t have to think that everything around is a stupid crowd, and you are so smart and special, you remind Novodvorskaya ...
                      2. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
                        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 19 February 2020 12: 27
                        -2
                        I think that you are up to Novodvorskaya ...
                      3. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 19 February 2020 19: 30
                        +2
                        I’m far from an illiterate Makarevich, whose mind was not even enough to graduate from vocational schools and companies, really far, since I have a good education and continue to improve it. For example, last year I got access to working with gas equipment, having passed the exams well ...
                      4. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
                        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 20 February 2020 07: 18
                        -1
                        After leaving school in 1971 he entered the Moscow Architectural Institute, from where he was expelled (officially - “for untimely departure from work at the vegetable base”, in fact - by the closed order of one of the party instances, because of unapproved classes in rock music ), after which he got a job as an architect in the Giproteatr ("State Institute of Theater and Spectacle Design"), where he worked until 1974, in 1979 he was reinstated at the Moscow Architectural Institute at the evening department, graduated in 1977 with a diploma of a graphic artist and architect

                        What to discuss with you at all, if you with your education cannot even find information on the Internet. The dialogue is probably over.
                      5. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 20 February 2020 09: 39
                        +2
                        Well, on the Internet you’re among the gossip ... Your strengths, but for good deeds, and not for the praise of Russophobia patients of foreigners ... By the way, now every drunk blames the KGB for its problems, it’s fashionable ... I remember one such He set fire to the doors of the Russian Federation, in France he received a residence permit like a refugee, but he didn’t get on there, now he’s in prison ... they’re going to deprive him of a residence permit and drive him from France to the neck ... You need to go to Israel why do you travel by strangers countries and insult the local population whose way of life is alien and incomprehensible to you ?! Leave home and you will be happy!
  14. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 16 February 2020 11: 22
    +4
    Cuba fought in Angola, with a limited contingent there ... Although, of course, they fight with aliens Novodvorsky, especially under a dose of American cookies ... As for the battle in which 5 MiG-21s of the USSR Air Force, which Russophobes love to trump, then the battle took place with the enormous numerical advantage of the enemy (12 Mirages + 12 Phantoms) ... MiGs were already running out of fuel, as they were carrying out the task of covering the area and were already with half-empty tanks .. In the battle 1 Mirage was lost, the loss of which Israel He didn’t admit, but they don’t recognize a lot of things .. Including they like silent say that in previous skirmishes these MiGs destroyed 2 Skyhawks + 1 Skyhawks + 1 Phantom of the Israeli Air Force ... Jews are also silent about the battles with the MiG-25 ... They are more profitable to show the F-15 as some kind of superweapon .. In fact, the MiG-25s shot down 2 F-15s, while the USSR lost 2 MiG-25s in battle (this machine was only good at high altitudes, at medium and low altitudes the MiG's speed dropped, but maneuverability remained unimportant. But this is normal for an interceptor and high-altitude reconnaissance, this is not a fighter for gaining air supremacy).
    1. Alexzn Online Alexzn
      Alexzn (Alexander) 17 February 2020 09: 40
      +1
      Quote: Sapsan136
      Cuba fought in Angola, with a limited contingent there ... Although, of course, they fight with aliens Novodvorsky, especially under a dose of American cookies ... As for the battle in which 5 MiG-21s of the USSR Air Force, which Russophobes love to trump, then the battle took place with the enormous numerical advantage of the enemy (12 Mirages + 12 Phantoms) ... MiGs were already running out of fuel, as they were carrying out the task of covering the area and were already with half-empty tanks .. In the battle 1 Mirage was lost, the loss of which Israel He didn’t admit, but they don’t recognize a lot of things .. Including they like silent say that in previous skirmishes these MiGs destroyed 2 Skyhawks + 1 Skyhawks + 1 Phantom of the Israeli Air Force ... Jews are also silent about the battles with the MiG-25 ... They are more profitable to show the F-15 as some kind of superweapon .. In fact, the MiG-25s shot down 2 F-15s, while the USSR lost 2 MiG-25s in battle (this machine was only good at high altitudes, at medium and low altitudes the MiG's speed dropped, but maneuverability remained unimportant. But this is normal for an interceptor and high-altitude reconnaissance, this is not a fighter for gaining air supremacy).

      24 Mig -21 against 4 phantoms and 12 mirages - it is curious. Do you know how to count? A huge advantage? Well, then you generally have myth-making. What are the fights with the MiG-25? What are you talking about?
      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 19 February 2020 10: 49
        0
        I brought the book and the author ... An Englishman cannot be suspected of love for Russia ... So the book is quite adequate ... If you prefer the gossip of the old women on Tel Aviv stoves, your problems ...
        1. Alexzn Online Alexzn
          Alexzn (Alexander) 20 February 2020 20: 24
          0
          Quote: Sapsan136
          I brought the book and the author ... An Englishman cannot be suspected of love for Russia ... So the book is quite adequate ... If you prefer the gossip of the old women on Tel Aviv stoves, your problems ...

          The Rimon operation is described in dozens of books, there are many articles about it, including Wikipedia, and nowhere are they written about the numerical advantage of the Israelis, moreover, the names of Israeli pilots are given. The ratio was 16 to 24, however, all the planes of the Israelis were the next generation.
          I called myth-writing written that the Israelis concealed the loss of aircraft and denied the fact of clashes. Everything you have indicated is well known, in Israel it is generally impossible to hide losses due to the specifics of a country that is small enough and where everything is somehow connected - countrymen, classmates, served together, served reserve service, etc. Losses were hidden only in the course of hostilities, after their end we know them EXACTLY.
          1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 20 February 2020 20: 52
            +2
            The USA generously pays for fairy tales ... here are storytellers and try ...
      2. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 10: 11
        -1
        ... You have "facts", we have "myth-making" ... Haha, once again - ha !! ..
  15. Tania Offline Tania
    Tania 20 February 2020 09: 37
    -1
    ... You are confusing something, little ... Suddenness came just from Israel! However, how quickly they slip the numbers ...
  16. Tania Offline Tania
    Tania 20 February 2020 10: 09
    -1
    ... In where is the organization, tramp! At night, he collected the sources ?!
  • Krasnodar Offline Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 16 February 2020 13: 46
    +3
    Quote: Sapsan136
    The result was that Israel lost two-thirds of its aircraft ..

    A third - and Egypt has gone over to the Americans.
    1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 17 February 2020 08: 41
      +4
      Well, the presence of bad soldiers in Egypt (Arabs are merchants, not military by nature) and rotten politicians are no reason to blame the USSR and the Russian Federation for something.
      1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 17 February 2020 16: 28
        +2
        Quote: Sapsan136
        Well, the presence of bad soldiers in Egypt (Arabs are merchants, not military by nature) and rotten politicians, there is no reason to blame the USSR and the Russian Federation for something

        "Arabs are bad soldiers" is a hackneyed stereotype. Fundamentally wrong.
        The nation that created the "Arab Caliphate" with fire and sword from the sands of Arabia to the Iberian Peninsula, on the one hand - Bukhara and Samarkand, on the other, cannot by definition have a bad army. This has been proven by Iraq in the war with Iran, superior in its main indicators.
        And the events in Syria objectively refute your premise. Also contradict yourself. Moreover, this contradiction is antagonistic in nature. You claim (unproven, moreover) that during the Yom Kippur War, the Arabs destroyed two-thirds of the most advanced combat aircraft and helicopters of the Israeli Air Force. Documentary data, however, indicate that Israel has lost a third of its fleet of combat aircraft. But the very fact that 30% of the ultra-modern aircraft Hal Aavir - the most authoritative in the whole world, was destroyed by the enemy, refutes your arguments about Arab ineptitude. In Afghanistan, under the leadership of terrorist number one - Bin Laden, the Arab mujahideen spoiled a lot of the SA's blood. And in Chechnya, too, were not the last. The operation with the destruction of two twin towers in New York is clearly not the work of Arab traders. It is clear that all this is in the past. Let us ask ourselves the question of today: And with whom the United States, its allies, Russia, Turkey, and the Kurds, have not been able to cope with in Syria for five years now? They are fighting, again, with the Arabs. But you, as I understand it, is not what you wanted to say. The point of the post is that the Jews - soldiers are also not so hot, they just have an unlucky enemy. But this is your fundamental delusion. Israel is superior by orders of magnitude to Arab opponents and not only, primarily in high-tech, the education system, in all other spheres of management. This lag is not in terms of good-bad, but in terms of advanced-backward. Well, and of course, motivation. For Arabs, defeat in the war is just another humiliating slap in the face. Not the World Cup, more serious, of course, but not fatal. And for the Jews, defeat is the ruin of everything. And a return to anecdotes, like: "they are hitting not on the passport, but in the face!" "Jewish collective farmer".
        At one time very sympathetic to Israel, but always betraying him, the King of Jordan Hussein said at a secret meeting with the Israelis: “I know that the IDF can win many more glorious victories. But you thought about what would happen if Israel suffers at least one defeat ? " Jews know perfectly well what will happen. Therefore, the Arab armies, superior in all respects, are beating. And not at all because the Arabs are bad soldiers.
        1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
          Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 19 February 2020 10: 47
          +1
          1) The rating of soldiers of different countries is not in favor of the Arabs
          2) Jews hijacked the newest T-62 from the Arabs at the time, while the Arabs prayed ... Good soldiers fight well, and do not stand on his feet while the enemy steals their tank ... There were bandits in Chechnya who fought well with pregnant women women in the hospital, and when trying to capture the airfield of the helicopter regiment, Basaev and the company were washed by snot-conscripts.
  • Tania Offline Tania
    Tania 20 February 2020 09: 22
    -3
    ... Yes, you are already at peace, the former ... from the USSR ... You write something in the Cyrillic alphabet, nourished by the bread from the advice ... Well, be sure to write though in Hebrew that eh !!
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  • Port Offline Port
    Port 16 February 2020 07: 04
    +2
    Quote: Rogue1812
    legendary Serebryansky Yakov Isaakovich

    This herd of executioners in the photo outweighs all your "heroes". By the way, the photo is not complete there, there are much more "heroes".
  • Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 February 2020 07: 28
    +2
    Quote: Arkharov
    Natan bruk
    Here is the answer to this lengthy, stupid article.

    Who are the judges?
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko (Alekcandr Sokolenko) 16 February 2020 08: 12
      +1
      She is not stupid, she is shamefacedly - pardonable ("we defend", but without fanaticism, fanaticism - only sawing and selling the Motherland) - even Jews, Judas (formally) is an example of patriotism, and Russians were pushed to the periphery of world Culture: the Motherland did not give birth to a Hero ! - so if they are killed by the millions, and Russia will not pull these losses, hence the "oil painting". One Frenchman said:

      If you kill the three hundred best sons of France, she will disappear.

      - How many Russians were killed? - and this process does not stop for a second.
  • Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 February 2020 07: 32
    +2
    Quote: Arkharov
    The third point is especially ridiculous. It might be possible to strengthen it (I really want to look at the Iranian "fighter wing"), and it is possible that they will also fly out. But how about flying back?

    Yeah, you’ll have a good laugh.
  • Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 February 2020 07: 37
    +1
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    Regarding the “provocative maneuver”, this can only be believed by people who have no idea how this all happens in practice, and who unconditionally believe the explanations of the Russian Defense Ministry. Experts spat on listening to Konashenkov’s snowstorm. For NON-Specialists - well, at least just ask yourself - how did IL appear in the fire zone? Who gave him the command to land at a time when the Syrian air defense was pounding into the white light? Or in another way - the IL was landing, suddenly F-16 appeared out of nowhere. The Syrians did not know that in their area of ​​fire will be IL? Where is the minimal interaction? Although the second option is generally stupid. In addition, the S-200 missile needs to be highlighted so that it finds a target. In fact, Israeli fighters were already landing at their bases when the Syrians opened fire and fired on everything in a row. It is all a matter of the criminal slovenliness of the Russian commanders and the amazing curvature and squint, as well as the complete lack of professionalism of the Syrian "specialists". But to tell the truth, of course, it was impossible - this would be a complete discredit of the Russian command. As a result, the Israelis did not “seek the truth,” since this made no practical sense — the Russian people would never have been told the truth, and the high command knows perfectly well what was the matter. Political interaction is more important for Israel. At the same time, at his press conference, Konashenkov did not hesitate to go for a direct forgery - he gave out marks of civilian aircraft over Cyprus for marks of Israeli fighters.

    Are you an expert yourself that broadcasts so boldly? Or are you referring to other Israeli specialists?
    1. Alekcandr Sokolenko (Alekcandr Sokolenko) 16 February 2020 08: 05
      0
      Ours cannot be shaken by anything, I remembered the verses: "Guys - everything is not that, everything is not that, - guys!" - outside the surrender of the USSR, any explanation of this topic, as well as any other, is naive, and in some places simply stupid.
  • Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 February 2020 07: 40
    +2
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    And to stop the shelling of Syria by the Israelis is very simple - to force the Shiite Islamofascists, who loudly proclaim the destruction of Israel as their goal, (IRG and Hezbollah) to leave Syria. Just.

    It’s interesting how you and your American allies would comment, start Russia, according to this logic, to knock out NATO’s presence near its borders
  • Alekcandr Sokolenko (Alekcandr Sokolenko) 16 February 2020 08: 00
    -2
    The "dome" over the defeated USSR is Dollar's condescension to the Judas of Russian nationality, and even then - in some places (the last religion of the Third Rome). Why did civilizations die? - AIDS killed them.
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 08: 25
    0
    Quote: Port
    Quote: Rogue1812
    legendary Serebryansky Yakov Isaakovich

    This herd of executioners in the photo outweighs all your "heroes", by the way, the photo is incomplete, there are much more "heroes" there.

    Iuppiter iratus ergo nefas. Well, what are you boiling? It is methodologically incorrect to make the brutality of the civil war and the totalitarian regime in the USSR dependent on one or another ethnic community. The Jacobin dictatorship, or mass executions at the Place de la Concorde in Paris, the totalitarian regimes of Pol Pot in Cambodia, Spain from the times of Franco, Portugal - Salazar, Pope Doc in Haiti, Japan - World War II, Germany - Hitler, the cultural revolution in China - these are all links in one chains. In none of the examples of Jews that I cited did it even stand nearby. The totalitarianism of the Stalinist system gave rise to pathological executioners such as Blokhin Vasily and Ezhov Nikolai Ivanovich, Beria and Abakumov, and millions of other people of non-Jewish nationality. You can contrast your own personality with such recognized geniuses of humanity as Landau and Khalatnikova, Kosberg and Gurevich, Ginzburg and Khariton, Joff and Zeldovich, Lavochkin and Mil. I take, I note, only the Russians. Roundedly, out of 900 Nobel Prize winners, about 300 are Jews. Of the 21 Nobel laureates among Russians, even more: of 21 Russians, nine are Jews. 40% of world chess champions, guess who? I can list endlessly. In any branches of science, art, literature. Everywhere. Is it worth it? You still can not convince. And jeans, which were also invented by the Jews, I suppose, wear.
    Jesus, Judas, Jews - what does this have to do with the delivery of the C-300 complex? Moreover, this purely theological issue has long been resolved by the hierarchs of the Christian denomination. Who at the highest level humbly apologized to the Jews for the persecution on religious grounds. And among other things, they stated that Jesus deliberately sacrificed himself, fulfilling his destiny to atone for the sins of mankind. I'm not even talking about the fact that for billions of believers and non-believers: Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Muslims, Bahais, Lamaists, atheists and agnostics, this story is not at all interesting. Or, in your language: "on the drum".
    We are a tiny nation and survived not because, but in spite of. The survival and prosperity of Israel is based on faith in Gd (Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism) and Zionism.
    1. Tania Offline Tania
      Tania 20 February 2020 09: 31
      -2
      ... Well, again and again: "we are the most, the most" ... and the jeans are right there ... "Don't make yourself an idol" ... And I imagine what happened to Russia, don't be in Ipatiev's basement your patron, the first one who warned you - who used the rest to shoot !!
      1. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 10: 13
        0
        ... Oh, and "forbidden" ... aptly because how?! ..
      2. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 20 February 2020 13: 46
        +1
        Would you please to express yourself somehow more clearly? In your illiterate and senseless garbage, it is difficult to understand "who stood on whom"?
  • gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 16 February 2020 08: 32
    +2
    According to statistics, in the Second World War, only in the ranks of the Red Army took part 500000 Jews, 200000 of whom died in the fighting. 220 thousand Jews were officers, 305 Jews were generals and admirals. The total percentage of draft tension in the Red Army was 24%, among Jews 27%. About 200000 thousand Jews were awarded military orders and medals. The Gold Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union awarded 177 Jews.

    - Here I personally agree with many things ...- from the above ...
    - But personally, I am a concrete person and I was always surprised that the feats accomplished by Jews during the Second World War, all remained "in sight", ie an accurate description of the most accomplished feat by a Jew is always given and an accurate description of what is happening is given (as if each Jew had his own "secretary-chronograph") ...
    - But war is war ... much just remains unclear ... - how many graves of the "Unknown Soldier" (all this speaks for itself) ... - And here everything is clear and precise ... - so much Jews performed feats and how they were accomplished, etc ... - and always in detail and scrupulously ... - No, personally, I do not deny and do not in the least try to belittle the feats accomplished by people of Jewish nationality ... - I am simply amazed by the constant " the specifics and details of "all these accomplished feats ...
    - For comparison, let's take the "Siberian divisions", which broke the Germans in the Second World War so much that they made a huge contribution to the turning point of this war, because they were well prepared, well armed and well equipped; and also the fact that they were recruited from the Siberian regions and had already been soldered in advance by a single "Siberian community" and a single "Siberian way of life", i.e. - it was already prepared in advance, very suitable for war, very valuable human material ... - It's a pity that our "Siberian divisions" so ineptly and bloody applied and used our "commanders-generals" ... - It's a pity ...
    - So ... - and what feats did the Siberians perform ??? - Yes, there are a lot of Heroes of the Soviet Union and Cavaliers of other awards (and after all, Siberians fought not only in the "Siberian divisions"; but also just in the Red Army) ... - So what ??? - Mostly to the dead Siberians ... - these are mass graves ... - And how they died and under what circumstances - it's all in "general outline" ... - And not only among Siberians ... - and among other fallen a soldier is all the time ... - How he died, when, under what circumstances ... - everything is very approximate ...
    - But as for the Jews who fought ... - then there are "statistics" and "specifics" ... - always at the highest level ...
    - I don’t want to betray doubts, and I don’t want to offend anyone .. but somehow it all looks ......
    1. Alexzn Online Alexzn
      Alexzn (Alexander) 16 February 2020 09: 37
      +1
      Quote: gorenina91
      According to statistics, in the Second World War, only in the ranks of the Red Army took part 500000 Jews, 200000 of whom died in the fighting. 220 thousand Jews were officers, 305 Jews were generals and admirals. The total percentage of draft tension in the Red Army was 24%, among Jews 27%. About 200000 thousand Jews were awarded military orders and medals. The Gold Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union awarded 177 Jews.

      - Here I personally agree with many things ...- from the above ...
      - But personally, I am a concrete person and I was always surprised that the feats accomplished by Jews during the Second World War, all remained "in sight", ie an accurate description of the most accomplished feat by a Jew is always given and an accurate description of what is happening is given (as if each Jew had his own "secretary-chronograph") ...
      - But war is war ... much just remains unclear ... - how many graves of the "Unknown Soldier" (all this speaks for itself) ... - And here everything is clear and precise ... - so much Jews performed feats and how they were accomplished, etc ... - and always in detail and scrupulously ... - No, personally, I do not deny and do not in the least try to belittle the feats accomplished by people of Jewish nationality ... - I am simply amazed by the constant " the specifics and details of "all these accomplished feats ...
      - For comparison, let's take the "Siberian divisions", which broke the Germans in the Second World War so much that they made a huge contribution to the turning point of this war, because they were well prepared, well armed and well equipped; and also the fact that they were recruited from the Siberian regions and had already been soldered in advance by a single "Siberian community" and a single "Siberian way of life", i.e. - it was already prepared in advance, very suitable for war, very valuable human material ... - It's a pity that our "Siberian divisions" so ineptly and bloody applied and used our "commanders-generals" ... - It's a pity ...
      - So ... - and what feats did the Siberians perform ??? - Yes, there are a lot of Heroes of the Soviet Union and Cavaliers of other awards (and after all, Siberians fought not only in the "Siberian divisions"; but also just in the Red Army) ... - So what ??? - Mostly to the dead Siberians ... - these are mass graves ... - And how they died and under what circumstances - it's all in "general outline" ... - And not only among Siberians ... - and among other fallen a soldier is all the time ... - How he died, when, under what circumstances ... - everything is very approximate ...
      - But as for the Jews who fought ... - then there are "statistics" and "specifics" ... - always at the highest level ...
      - I don’t want to betray doubts, and I don’t want to offend anyone .. but somehow it all looks ......

      And what follows from this? Except that:
      1. Siberians poorly honor the memory of their victims
      2. Sibiryakov was not accused of fighting in Tashkent (accordingly, there was no need to prove anything with statistics).
      1. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
        gorenina91 (Irina) 16 February 2020 10: 26
        +2
        And what follows from this? Except that:
        1. Siberians poorly honor the memory of their victims
        2. Sibiryakov was not accused of fighting in Tashkent (accordingly, there was no need to prove anything with statistics).

        - From this it follows that you are raving ... - Once again I explain:
        1. Siberian warriors are honored both in Siberia and everywhere ... - But a lot of the dead are unknown .., there are a lot of graves for the "Unknown Soldier" - and not only for the fallen Siberians, but also for other soldiers ... - But about those who fought Jews - on the contrary ... - everything is known in detail and "documented" is confirmed ... - as if someone specially documented all this and kept a chronology of events ... - That's all, and no more ...
        - And if you accuse the Siberians of "they fought in Tashkent," then it is certain that the WWII was won only by the Americans, the British and the French ... - such a "conclusion" immediately suggests itself ...
        1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
          Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 11: 08
          0
          You have raised an interesting question. And the answer to it, as it seems to me, is not as simple and unambiguous as it seems.
          But I will try. First of all, Jews are a very small people, with a tendency characteristic of all small ethnic groups to single out "their own". Everywhere. Comes to anecdotal situations. Once, in a conversation with me, an Ossetian said in all seriousness that most of the GSS are, of course, Ossetians. I told this as a joke to my Jewish friend, who immediately reacted, without a hint of humor, what nonsense they say: Jews, of course. It would seem that this can exhaust my answer. But it is with regard to the Jews that there are nuances. Jews are the only nation in the world that professes Judaism. Because of the fidelity of their religion over the two thousand years of Galut and persecution, tons of all sorts of fables have accumulated around the Jews. Including about courage, courage, endurance. And only in a negative way. This is not the case. The natural reaction of Jews is to refute the prevailing stereotypes. Including - and in terms of participation of Jews in wars. The suppression of the role of Jews in participation in the Second World War took place at the state level. Ehrenburg's "Black Book" was banned from publication, the nationality of the Jewish heroes was not indicated, or it was indicated that they were Russian. As in the case of Admiral Welf Konovalov, or Kunikov, or Masha Bruskina. For attempts to publish the list of Jews of the SCAC, the initiators were even shot. The publication of the directive of A.S. Zhdanov added fuel to the fire. about the limited reward of Jews. The opponents of Russia took advantage of this. For example, the whole world knows the story of Pechersky, who was not released to the States for the premiere of a film about him. And after the collapse of the USSR, they rushed to the other extreme: to correct mistakes. That's all that surfaced. And I agree with the post of my fellow tribesman, who correctly writes that other peoples did not reproach them for participating in the Second World War on the Tashkent front. And the last thing. In almost every Jewish family, including mine, one or both parents fought. That is why such emotional responses.
          1. Tania Offline Tania
            Tania 20 February 2020 09: 43
            -2
            ... and I knew families who stayed in Tashkent ... Well, the war happened all around, because it’s against you: so you file this robbery, and it’s not a sin for you to fight !!
  • Vkd dvk Offline Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk (Victor) 16 February 2020 10: 57
    +1
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.

    About the story. Not in the know, whose initiative was mainly in the creation of the state of Israel? And the change in policy in Khrushchev’s times regarding Israel was caused by the aggressive behavior of this still under-state towards its neighbors. The USSR has always been interested in peace and quiet in the Middle East. Penguins, and not the USSR, pursued a policy of controlled chaos far from its borders, and Israel was that sledgehammer that destroys the world.
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 20: 08
      +2
      Quote: wkd dvk
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.

      About the story. Not in the know, whose initiative was mainly in the creation of the state of Israel? And the change in policy in Khrushchev’s times regarding Israel was caused by the aggressive behavior of this still under-state towards its neighbors. The USSR has always been interested in peace and quiet in the Middle East. Penguins, and not the USSR, pursued a policy of controlled chaos far from its borders, and Israel was that sledgehammer that destroys the world.

      In the course, you - not in the know. And not in the subject. The initiative to rebuild Israel came from the assimilated Hungarian Jew - journalist Theodor Herzl. Who was present at the Judophobic trial in Paris over the Jewish captain Dreyfus. Herzl is considered the founder of political Zionism. He managed to enlist the support of Baron Edmond Rothschild, who, along with the Zionist fund, financed the purchase of the most ruinous and abandoned lands in Eretz Yisrael. The creation of Israel was initiated by the Jews themselves, and only by the Jews. The British supported at the first stage. Then they changed their minds. The first big Aliya was mainly from Russia. In the UN, when voting, the creation of Israel was supported by the majority of countries, the USSR gave three votes, the USA also voted for. Stalin had his own interest: to create Israel as, in his words, "a pain in the ass of Great Britain." Not broken off. It can be credited to the USSR that through Czechoslovakia, at an exorbitant price, by the way, the supply of weapons to the young state was established. Israel did not receive a penny from the USSR or any other country. And I received no help. Everyone was convinced that the Arabs would grind Israel to dust. And they themselves were sure of it. The money for the weapons was received by Golda Meir from American Jews. She very lucidly explained the following to the wealthy American Jews who had gathered at Cornegie Hall. I convey it in my own words from memory, but the speech is simply amazing:

      In a few days, a Jewish state will be created that the Arabs will attack. The best of us will die, this is obvious. But it’s also obvious, she continued, that the Jews would not surrender to the mercy of the Jerusalem Mufti. But to win, courage alone is not enough. We need money to purchase weapons. And if I speak now, then this is not tomorrow, but today. The fate of 450 Jews depends on the fate of XNUMX thousand Jews. One does not need to be a prophet to understand that if the Jews of Palestine are destroyed, then soon all Jewry in the world will perish. And our two thousand year old hopes will fall to dust. It is not for you to decide whether we live or die. But it's up to you whether we win or lose.

      According to Golda Meir herself, after her speech in the hall there was grave silence. And she thought she had failed. Only a few minutes later there was a fantastic ovation. Many cried. Checks, an unprecedented case for America, were written out on the spot. Gold needed to raise $ 5 million, she raised 50 ... An amount unprecedented in those days. And where does Stalin or the USSR? In fact, the state of Israel was created in the early twenties of the last century. And his official proclamation was only a formality.
      1. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 46
        -1
        ... in the twenties ... was created ...

        - Hmm ... under whose patronage ?! Well, then they settled ...
  • Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
    Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 12: 04
    +1
    Quote: Sapsan136
    Almost the whole world does not agree with your statement, but if you and other Jews are pleased to consider yourself smarter than others (see the cartoon about Mowgli), these are your problems ... Unnamed British literature? !!! I pointed out to you the author, the title of the book, either read before writing your stupid things, or share your tales with grandmothers on the stove in Telaviv, they will understand you ... Literature written in the grandees of the USA is only suitable as toilet paper. .

    It is somehow even embarrassing to correct a person with such an education as yours. But I'll risk it. The reflexive verb "good" is written without a soft sign. And the word "grand" means a title, and not a lump sum, which is called a grant. Anyway. And as for "practically the whole world", don't blame it, "professor", you exaggerate, taking into account your education, your own importance on a planetary scale. Let me say that Churchill, explaining the absence of anti-Semitism in Great Britain, said:

    We do not have anti-Semitism. Because we do not think Jews are better and smarter than ourselves.

    Do you think so. In vain. Russians are no worse and no more stupid than any nationality, including Jews. I’m telling you as a Jew.
    Essentially a post: Your sources (with illustrations) are "tsatsa", my links are "kaka". The approach is clear. But not correct. A Russian author from your words - Zhirokhov writes for grants from the United States and his (the work you have not read is toilet paper). But the unnamed British literature (you did not name several sources, but one, however, with pictures) is a source of trust. But here's the bad luck, the same Winston Spencer Churchill - the grandson of Sir Churchill wrote a bestseller - enjoying authority throughout the world - "The Six Day War." What, toilet paper too? Or the monograph of the first Russian ambassador to Israel A.E. Bovin's "Five Years Among the Jews and the Foreign Ministry", where he specifically writes about the defeat of the Arab coalitions in the "Six Day War" and "The Yom Kippur War" - was written with US grants. Is the ambassador himself a Mossad agent? Perhaps you will be interested in the two-volume edition of Chaim Herzog, "The Arab-Israeli Wars". Still, the former chief of staff, they would have caught him by the hand. With lies, then. All tables are attached in this book. And it turns out that you are misleading, and even so emotionally. With gross grammatical errors. And put Operation Rimon on its head. In that battle, Major General Strelnikov, Mubarak, then the commander of the ARE Air Force warned not to raise 24 MiGs against 12 Phantoms. Brother Ivanushka did not obey .... And he got it in full. Don't worry, Academician. What are your years! You will also see the Arabian dawn on Desingof Street in Tel Aviv. And you will not see that it is very likely that you will die with the thought that the descendants will see. And they'll write me a post.
    1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 16 February 2020 19: 06
      -1
      Tramp1812
      In "Rimon", in general, 3 "Mirages" distinguished themselves.
      1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 19: 34
        -1
        I do not argue, there both "Mirages" and "Phantoms", worked perfectly: each fulfilled its role. But as for me, the biggest credit goes to the Israeli electronic warfare ground service. Flight commander Kamenev was the first to understand that the targets they were led to were a trap. Having correctly oriented himself, he managed to transfer real data to the ground. Then the connection between Soviet aircraft and the ground was interrupted. Virtually everyone fought alone. And you can't fight that much. According to Israeli data, everything lasted 6 minutes, after which the Soviet pilots began to randomly withdraw from the battle. According to Soviet data, they held out for 10 minutes. But in any case, after the collapse of the USSR, of course, the number of losses was recognized - 5 downed aircraft. Zhirokhov writes that, in the excitement of the battle, the Israelis rushed in pursuit of the scattering opponents, but Benny Peled's command followed from the ground, and all the planes returned to their bases. It was already politics. And the continuation of this story is banal: the Soviet air regiment was immediately recalled to its homeland. In fairness, it should be noted that the Soviet pilots, of course, were set up. None of them, unlike their Israeli colleagues, fought in the BV. The element of the Russians is cloudy. Well, plus the lack of combat experience, constraint with instructions. Although the Israelis noted the courage, the possession of technology. But that was not enough. Plus a clear underestimation of the enemy.
    2. Tania Offline Tania
      Tania 20 February 2020 09: 49
      -2
      ... "God's chosen one"! And ... where is he there for you Ch. "good" wrote with a soft ........ ?!
  • salama Offline salama
    salama (Dmitri) 16 February 2020 14: 43
    0
    Israel? Jews who suffered? The 8 Lamas who have been burnt also have the courage to bomb someone and crush tanks ... who are crushed and throw bombs? Millionth plane flies to bomb the desert. Adik rolled over in his grave.
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 16 February 2020 20: 11
      0
      Well, you give! S-300 are silent, and the Jews are to blame ....
      1. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 09: 52
        -1
        ... The main villainy is the current -izr. there is to peel the weak, so that it would be disgraceful for the strong ..... but not the current one - you have this in genetics !!

        And do not weakly turn your angry little eye to the neofashists, say !! Weak, what ?!
  • Mister who Offline Mister who
    Mister who (Max) 16 February 2020 23: 09
    -1
    But before they were not afraid in Egypt and Israeli fighters calmly beat what changed, Russia is not the USSR, the shadow of an empire. The USSR, together with the social bloc, occupied 40% of the world in trade, and now only 5%, sort of. For new markets you need to fight in any way, like others, so as not to snap your nose. This is a dirty policy, but you need to play it!
    1. Krasnodar Offline Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 17 February 2020 00: 43
      0
      So before and lost their fighters and air defense fighters - it was just hiding from the people.
  • Radikal Offline Radikal
    Radikal 17 February 2020 12: 36
    0
    Quote: Rogue1812
    Quote: Radikal
    Quote: Rogue1812
    Quote: Radikal
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    ... And the war with Israel - yes, Russia needs the least ...

    You confuse the concepts a little - you shouldn't confuse all of Russia with those who "rule" it at the present time ... sad

    1. Do you take the liberty of asserting on behalf of Russia that it vitally needs a war with Israel?
    2. I am not a Russian, you know better, of course, but it seems to me that the problem of the war with Israel, Russia is currently less concerned than, say, solving the water supply to Crimea and improving the welfare of the population.
    3. How is Israel threatening Russia and has it ever been threatened?

    I explain to both, or both (for your nicknames I do not see - what gender are you lol ) You are talking about war here, and there you are doing this at your borders. This is the first thing. Secondly, why does your Benya go to the guarantor every time before attacking Syria? Are you asking for permission? They have a good melshboch! As far as the alleged "necessity" of a war with Israel is concerned, you are pedaling this question in your comments ... sad

    You are not only a radical, but also an extremist. And you take the liberty of expressing your extremist views on behalf of all of Russia. Which is unfortunate.

    You don’t need to translate arrows, if you delve into history, we will see that you yourself have been successfully engaged in extremism-terrorism from time immemorial .... sad
  • Vkd dvk Offline Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk (Victor) 17 February 2020 19: 47
    0
    Quote: Rogue1812
    Quote: wkd dvk
    Quote: Natan Bruk
    And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.

    About the story. Not in the know, whose initiative was mainly in the creation of the state of Israel? And the change in policy in Khrushchev’s times regarding Israel was caused by the aggressive behavior of this still under-state towards its neighbors. The USSR has always been interested in peace and quiet in the Middle East. Penguins, and not the USSR, pursued a policy of controlled chaos far from its borders, and Israel was that sledgehammer that destroys the world.

    In the course, you - not in the know. And not in the subject. The initiative to rebuild Israel came from the assimilated Hungarian Jew - journalist Theodor Herzl. Who was present at the Judophobic trial in Paris over the Jewish captain Dreyfus. Herzl is considered the founder of political Zionism. He managed to enlist the support of Baron Edmond Rothschild, who, along with the Zionist fund, financed the purchase of the most ruinous and abandoned lands in Eretz Yisrael. The creation of Israel was initiated by the Jews themselves, and only by the Jews. The British supported at the first stage. Then they changed their minds. The first big Aliya was mainly from Russia. In the UN, when voting, the creation of Israel was supported by the majority of countries, the USSR gave three votes, the USA also voted for. Stalin had his own interest: to create Israel as, in his words, "a pain in the ass of Great Britain." Not broken off. It can be credited to the USSR that through Czechoslovakia, at an exorbitant price, by the way, the supply of weapons to the young state was established. Israel did not receive a penny from the USSR or any other country. And I received no help. Everyone was convinced that the Arabs would grind Israel to dust. And they themselves were sure of it. The money for the weapons was received by Golda Meir from American Jews. She very lucidly explained the following to the wealthy American Jews who had gathered at Cornegie Hall. I convey it in my own words from memory, but the speech is simply amazing:

    In a few days, a Jewish state will be created that the Arabs will attack. The best of us will die, this is obvious. But it’s also obvious, she continued, that the Jews would not surrender to the mercy of the Jerusalem Mufti. But to win, courage alone is not enough. We need money to purchase weapons. And if I speak now, then this is not tomorrow, but today. The fate of 450 Jews depends on the fate of XNUMX thousand Jews. One does not need to be a prophet to understand that if the Jews of Palestine are destroyed, then soon all Jewry in the world will perish. And our two thousand year old hopes will fall to dust. It is not for you to decide whether we live or die. But it's up to you whether we win or lose.

    According to Golda Meir herself, after her speech in the hall there was grave silence. And she thought she had failed. Only a few minutes later there was a fantastic ovation. Many cried. Checks, an unprecedented case for America, were written out on the spot. Gold needed to raise $ 5 million, she raised 50 ... An amount unprecedented in those days. And where does Stalin or the USSR? In fact, the state of Israel was created in the early twenties of the last century. And his official proclamation was only a formality.

    It’s impossible to think of more garbage. At the initiative of some anonymous Jew, someone will organize and finance the creation of the state. Pisarchukov, inventing ideal humanity, in the communist empire was numerous. And who left documentary marks- 400 years ago, sitting on a cabinet, and dreaming of ..... Tommaso Campanella and his City of the Sun.
    So is your long-spotlight. When the POWER wanted to do something like this, only then did the province go to write.
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 17 February 2020 23: 08
      0
      Quote: wkd dvk
      Quote: Rogue1812
      Quote: wkd dvk
      Quote: Natan Bruk
      And, that is, all of Russia needs a war with Israel? You are probably still very young, and not particularly aware of the history of the Arab-Israeli wars, as well as the participation of the USSR. And how it all ended. Take an interest. This is definitely not necessary for Russia. And by the way - you send your son (if you have one) to this alien war to die for the interests of whom it is not clear to whom? You, like the whole people, will definitely not get anything from this war.

      About the story. Not in the know, whose initiative was mainly in the creation of the state of Israel? And the change in policy in Khrushchev’s times regarding Israel was caused by the aggressive behavior of this still under-state towards its neighbors. The USSR has always been interested in peace and quiet in the Middle East. Penguins, and not the USSR, pursued a policy of controlled chaos far from its borders, and Israel was that sledgehammer that destroys the world.

      In the course, you - not in the know. And not in the subject. The initiative to rebuild Israel came from the assimilated Hungarian Jew - journalist Theodor Herzl. Who was present at the Judophobic trial in Paris over the Jewish captain Dreyfus. Herzl is considered the founder of political Zionism. He managed to enlist the support of Baron Edmond Rothschild, who, along with the Zionist fund, financed the purchase of the most ruinous and abandoned lands in Eretz Yisrael. The creation of Israel was initiated by the Jews themselves, and only by the Jews. The British supported at the first stage. Then they changed their minds. The first big Aliya was mainly from Russia. In the UN, when voting, the creation of Israel was supported by the majority of countries, the USSR gave three votes, the USA also voted for. Stalin had his own interest: to create Israel as, in his words, "a pain in Britain's ass." Not broken off. It can be credited to the USSR that through Czechoslovakia, at an exorbitant price, by the way, the supply of weapons to the young state was established. Israel did not receive a penny from the USSR or any other country. And I received no help. Everyone was convinced that the Arabs would grind Israel to dust. And they themselves were sure of it. The money for the weapons was received by Golda Meir from American Jews. She very lucidly explained the following to the wealthy American Jews gathered at Carnegie Hall. I convey it in my own words from memory, but the speech is simply amazing:

      In a few days, a Jewish state will be created that the Arabs will attack. The best of us will die, this is obvious. But it’s also obvious, she continued, that the Jews would not surrender to the mercy of the Jerusalem Mufti. But to win, courage alone is not enough. We need money to purchase weapons. And if I speak now, then this is not tomorrow, but today. The fate of 450 Jews depends on the fate of XNUMX thousand Jews. One does not need to be a prophet to understand that if the Jews of Palestine are destroyed, then soon all Jewry in the world will perish. And our two thousand year old hopes will fall to dust. It is not for you to decide whether we live or die. But it's up to you whether we win or lose.

      According to Golda Meir herself, after her speech in the hall there was grave silence. And she thought she had failed. Only a few minutes later there was a fantastic ovation. Many cried. Checks, an unprecedented case for America, were written out on the spot. Gold needed to raise $ 5 million, she raised 50 ... An amount unprecedented in those days. And where does Stalin or the USSR? In fact, the state of Israel was created in the early twenties of the last century. And his official proclamation was only a formality.

      It’s impossible to think of more garbage. At the initiative of some anonymous Jew, someone will organize and finance the creation of the state. Pisarchukov, inventing ideal humanity, in the communist empire was numerous. And who left documentary marks - 400 years ago, sitting on the plinth, and dreaming of ..... Tommaso Campanella and his City of the Sun.
      So is your long-spotlight. When the POWER wanted to do something like this, only then did the province go to write.

      Emotions, without arguments, are not the best way to conduct a discussion. Especially if the opponent is not in the subject. As in this case - you. Stalin was "combed" in 1948. By this time, the Zionist Fund, organized by Herzl and with the money of philanthropists - Nathan Strauss, Lord Montefiore and, of course, Baron Rothschild and other Jews, the lands on which Israel now stands were bought up.
      Herzl was a secular man, a brilliant journalist and organizer. This is common knowledge. Like the fact that Herzl was at the forefront of the Jewish state. However, a Jew (without pace) Zhvanetsky Mikhail Mikhailovich wrote about the empty dive. I quote literally:

      If one of the debaters is inadequate, then the second is probably the same.

      I finish the argument on this. And then in front of the namesake Michal Mikhalych somehow awkward. I wish you hello. And improve skills.
      1. Tania Offline Tania
        Tania 20 February 2020 10: 24
        -2
        ... oh, oh, just don't need Zhvanetsky! I have never heard of the worst humorist, I have not seen it .. I remember how this one was crying at "Kultura": he was rude, they say, the people ... Well, yes, well, yes ..: the color of the Russian nation that you have destroyed has not yet been restored ... your Dostoevsky: chauvinist, they say; Tolstoy is disgusting to you: and how, they say, one of the guys - sat on his lap ... These are at home! WHAT are you doing and not at home? However, you have privatized the entire territory of the merciless planet ...
  • master3 Offline master3
    master3 (Vitali) 17 February 2020 22: 24
    +3
    There is a good saying "eggs get in the way of a bad dancer". Either the horizon is wrong, now the Syrians are poorly trained, now the Israelis are flying dishonestly, now "the air defense system must be echeloned," "it is desirable to strengthen it," "requires expensive equipment," and so on. Tomorrow, after another successful Israeli attack, there will be 20 more reasons.
    1. Tania Offline Tania
      Tania 20 February 2020 08: 54
      0
      ... Israel’s successful attack ...

      Hmm .., and why do you need these "successful attacks" on the sovereigns ?! ......
      1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
        Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 20 February 2020 09: 28
        0
        Quote: tania
        ... a successful attack by Israel.
        ... hmm .., and why do you need these "successful attacks" on the sovereigns ?! ......

        So that the "suvirans" are not "SuviraNichali".
  • Tania Offline Tania
    Tania 20 February 2020 08: 52
    -1
    ... I read the "fabrications" of some Nathans and others like them ... MY Lord! Well, after all, wishful thinking is so obvious:

    We are the smartest, greatest, most efficient ...

    And even in the smallest things - a trick after all: "... a reflexive verb ..." etc ... Well, a man and so his - this verb - dashed off without a soft ...
    1. Tramp1812 Offline Tramp1812
      Tramp1812 (Tramp 1812) 20 February 2020 09: 22
      0
      Quote: tania
      ... read the "fabrications" of some Nathans and others like them ... MY Lord! Well, after all, wishful thinking is so obvious:

      We are the smartest, greatest, most efficient ...

      And even in the little things - a trick after all: "... a reflexive verb ..." etc ... Well, a man and so his - this verb - dashed off without a soft ...

      So this man, after remarking "some Natans and others like them," bothered to fix it. Thanks to us, Jews, it is improving. To the extent of their weak forces and capabilities.