Union vs USA: Merkel’s visit to Moscow may become historic


The upcoming meeting of German Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin this week has every chance of becoming a historic event. Without exaggeration, she can change the fate of the world. Yes, on the bright holiday of the Nativity of Christ, I so want to dream about something good and bright ... But in this case, it is not just a dream, but rather objective prerequisites for just such a turn.


Recent events in the Middle East have essentially become a feature beyond which all significant geopolitical players will have to make a choice (others will make it for the rest). On the other hand, the American missiles that hit Baghdad are the same notorious last straw, which, quite possibly, overflowed Berlin’s patience, forcing it to radically change its course. In any case, at a time when the world is balancing over the abyss, the head of Germany is not rushing to Washington, but to Moscow ...

According to the information available today, the meeting was initiated by our president. And Frau Merkel, apparently, accepted his invitation without the slightest hesitation! According to the Kremlin’s press service, the main topics of the talks should be the situation in Syria and Libya, and in the Middle East in general - naturally, in the light of the provocative US airstrike. Questions of Ukraine, implementation of the Minsk Agreements, as well as prospects for Russian gas supplies to Europe will not be ignored. Surely, we will talk about the "Nord Stream-2". An interesting list of topics, right? In principle, practically for each of them individually, leaders would have enough telephone conversation to achieve mutual understanding. But taken in combination, they look completely different. And you know why? All the issues mentioned above have one thing in common: the interests of Russia and Germany on them coincide, as a rule, completely. And in almost all cases, they are exactly 100% contrary to the intentions and aspirations of the United States.

Baghdad Fault


The pirate raid of American vultures, carried out by them on January 3 to commit another political assassination, has already "backfired" Berlin in the most unpleasant way. The United States again framed its own NATO allies, as they say, without batting an eye. Jens Stoltenberg today can make as many excuses as he wants, insisting that "this was a decision of Washington, not the North Atlantic Alliance." According to the well-known proverb, the enraged and hungry for revenge, the warriors of Islam, in which case, will not be on a passport, but on a face without a beard. But in Iraq today there are about 120 soldiers of the Bundeswehr, who are staying there as part of the operation to combat ISIS and are engaged in training the local military. Accordingly, killing Iranian and Iraqi militarypolitical leaders, the Americans put their lives on the line, while not even thinking about not only asking Berlin for the operation, but also notifying him of it. It is not surprising that today Germany, at the level of the official representative of the government of the country, Steffen Seibert, has already declared its readiness "to accept any decision of Baghdad" and to carry out the withdrawal of its own military contingent from the country, which showed the door to all members of the "Western Coalition" as soon as possible. Yes, at the same time, both he and the head of the German defense department Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer bitterly complained that such actions "would damage stability" in Iraq, as well as will not contribute to the further fight against terrorism. However, the Germans definitely do not intend to die because of the American foolishness.

Some of the analysts have already suggested that Angela Merkel (and in her person the entire European Union) is turning to Vladimir Putin, hoping that he, as a person who has direct contacts with the Iranian leadership and has a certain influence, will be able to convince Tehran "not to flog a fever", not to make hasty military decisions that threaten irreversible consequences. A flattering version, of course, but not too vital. The willingness of the Iranian side to heed the advice and recommendations coming from Moscow is not as great as the Europeans would like. And, by the way, one of the main "connecting links" between our countries was just Kassem Suleimani who was basely killed on January 3. Proceeding from this, it must be assumed that the intentions of the German leader are much more far-reaching than a simple search for a reliable mediator in a crisis situation. Something needs to be decided at the global level. Berlin, of course, can remove its own soldiers from the Middle East "nacht vaterland". But whether the country will survive the next wave of refugees and migrants who, along the long-beaten path, will rush from there to the well-fed German lands, if the region flares up "like an adult" is a big question. Germany has already cost dearly the flows of "forced migrants", which caused a huge number of problems there, both social and economicand political. She will most likely not be able to “digest” another such "invasion" under any circumstances. So Trump's desire to fan a new "world fire" may well become a verdict for the German state.

“Not very useful sanctions ...”


It was not in vain that the Russian Foreign Ministry commented on these words of their colleague, German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas, with very caustic irony. It’s necessary to show such exceptional caution and correctness, daring even a little, just a little bit to “criticize” the boorish and frankly illegal actions of the United States! Let me remind you that Herr Maas allowed himself to timidly note that the policy of “persuading Iraq with threats, not arguments” is unlikely to “work” after the finally enraged head of the White House threatened Baghdad with “unprecedented sanctions” for the decision to expel American warrior. Do you know what's the funniest thing about this situation? The fact that Germany, in fact, is one to one in the same position as Iraq: the country is full of American military bases, causing persistent irritation and rejection of an increasing number of Germans. The only difference is that Germany was bombed, destroyed and occupied by the United States more than half a century earlier than Iraq. So what signal is Trump sending to the Germans, stating that he does not intend to remove his thugs from the Middle Eastern country under any guise, and at the same time exposing Baghdad a multi-billion dollar bill "for protection" ?! This is after the American invaders had only pumped out oil from the country and removed historical artifacts for absolutely unaccountable sums! I am not even talking about hundreds of thousands (according to some estimates - more than a million!) Peaceful Iraqis killed by the "liberators" ... So, I wonder what awaits the Germans if one day they want the Yankees with their bases, bombs and rockets rolled from their land to hell? Also "unprecedented sanctions" ?! Or are there new bombing strikes on Dresden at once?

Not so long ago, German Deputy Foreign Minister Niels Ahnen spoke much more openly than his own boss, who bluntly pointed out that Europe today, more than ever, needs "mechanisms of protection against US extraterritorial sanctions that do not take into account the strategic interests of the EU." This was said, as you might guess, about the last "run over" of Washington on the construction of "Nord Stream-2". And, by the way, according to the same John Kerry (ex-head of the US State Department), widely quoted by the American media, the EU's retaliatory measures in the form of counter-sanctions against the United States are "only a matter of time." Presumably, the current escalation in the Middle East can speed up the process at times. The Europeans culturally and civilized tried to neutralize Washington's thoughtless attempts to bring Tehran to its knees by bringing down its economy. They tried, they created INSTEX (in which, again, Germany played one of the first violins), persuaded, went for tricks - everything so that only Iran would not get out of the "nuclear deal". So what?! The inadequate Donald turned all their titanic efforts to dust with one missile strike. Today Tehran has already announced its complete renunciation of its nuclear-free status and any obligations in general. The example of Gaddafi, you know, is very memorable ... The Europeans are more and more convinced that all attempts to resolve issues with the United States in an amicable way sooner or later turn into the most severe disappointment. All these years, all of them, including Berlin, dutifully followed the United States in the anti-Russian political "channel". They imposed sanctions on themselves at a loss, lost money, ruined relationships and ruined their own business. Or maybe that's enough ?!

If at the dawn of the “Trump era”, both the newest owner of the White House, and his lunatic team, for the most part consisting of tipuses with obvious manic inclinations like Pompeo, were compared with a flock of elephants frolic in a china shop, now this image no longer reflects reality. Rather, it’s a gang of violent lunatics with torches breaking into the powder warehouse to “anneal” it, and it’s very bright ... A drag organized by Angela Merkel, the former head of the German defense department, who blurted out something about sending German military to the Kerch Strait ships and planes have not been forgotten. “Are you proposing to fight the Russians ?!” I wonder what emotions the chancellor of Washington’s intentions to provide anti-ship missiles and combat drones to Ukraine this year provoke Frau Chancellor? And specifically for use against the Russians! But it is precisely such, word for word, the plans were recently announced by the former US Chargé d'Affaires to the “non-fallow” William Taylor. In public, from the TV screen, completely without repairing or stewing ... They will not calm down until they arrange another war, preferably in Europe! Twice in human history the so-called “Anglo-Saxon world” succeeded with great success. And both times, the British and Yankees pushed just the Germans and Russians against their foreheads, who suffered major human and material losses in world wars, fabulously enriching overseas ghouls. If Russia and Germany, united, put an end to such attempts once and for all, this will truly become the highest manifestation of historical justice.
Used photos: http://www.kremlin.ru/
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  1. steelmaker Online
    steelmaker 7 January 2020 09: 56
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    What Putin is a peacemaker? He can only substitute cheeks for a blow! For this, Merkel flew in to Iran to teach and advise! And why Russia does not adopt the Afghan experience of the United States? Or supply weapons to US enemies for free "FROW" crushes, or worried about their families in the US? USA hates EVERYTHING! Give me a weapon, and in the USA the earth under your feet will burn !!!
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  2. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 7 January 2020 10: 04
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    The union of the Russian Federation with Germany against the USA ... Is this a new joke?
    1. Sake Offline
      Sake (Sake) 11 January 2020 18: 41
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      and the shortest ...
  3. kriten Offline
    kriten (Vladimir) 7 January 2020 10: 31
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    It simply cannot be historical. Merkel has never been independent in politics. Only probing the situation - how much is the GDP ready for? GDP is also not ready for anything serious. And now it’s time to sign a new pact: but now it’s not about the division of Poland, but Ukraine.
  4. wow Offline
    wow 7 January 2020 11: 41
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    The gentlemen above, do not rush to stir up the water in the pool! Not yet evening ...
  5. Vasil K. Offline
    Vasil K. (Vasil K.) 7 January 2020 11: 46
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    The United States destroyed its auto industry in order to tie Germany and Japan economically. There is not even a tendency to get rid of ... Well, I’ve arrived! To talk without the ears of others, and arrived on her weekdays - she has our stupidly supported by the churchmen Julian calendar, another mark in the savagery of the barbarians.
    1. Nick Offline
      Nick (Nikolai) 7 January 2020 13: 42
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      Quote: Vasil K.
      her our stupidly supported by the churchmen Julian calendar, another mark in the savagery of the barbarians.

      It's not for you to judge who the barbarian is. Go peacefully and do not touch the Orthodox Faith.
    2. businessv Offline
      businessv (Vadim) 15 January 2020 15: 46
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      Quote: Vasil K.
      ... our stupidly supported by the clergy Julian calendar, another mark in the savagery of the barbarians.

      And what is barbarism ?! None of the documents began to change either day or month, with the exception of Catholic spiritual holidays and Christmas! Do you think this is normal? If you were born, for example, on June 1, and after a while some of your friends will begin to claim that your birthday is May 19, what will be your reaction? smile
  6. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 7 January 2020 13: 16
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    Germany and the United States - cute scolding, just amuse. These countries have BASIC interests and values ​​coincide. Russia for them outside the brackets. For the USA, Russia is a rival and an enemy; for Germany, a rival and a possible partner. Not more.
    1. businessv Offline
      businessv (Vadim) 7 January 2020 22: 25
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      Quote: AlexZN
      These countries have BASIC interests and values ​​coincide.

      What do they match ?! Mattress bases in Germany are located after and following the end of the 2nd World War and the Germans really do not like it, let me remind you! This is about interests, but as for values, Russia is a capitalist country, so the values ​​are the same for all interested people!
      1. Alexzn Offline
        Alexzn (Alexander) 7 January 2020 23: 17
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        Yes, I don’t like it. While they are. Serious politicians understand that their absence will not like it even more. The well-being of Europe, and especially Germany, is the result of a competent policy of the United States, which solved geostrategic problems and saved Europeans from dirty work. Twice Americans saved Europeans in their European-World Wars. Europeans understand this and pay black ingratitude, which is quite natural. Just Europeans, and especially Germans, believe that they have grown out of short pants. They want not complete, but greater independence.
        Shared values ​​are not capitalism; they are a common history of growing up. Russia did not grow up with the rest of Europe; it cut a window there. Europeans created America, transferring Europe to the New World.
        Interests are easier, there is an obvious discrepancy. Russia is needed as a market and source of raw materials, and not as a member of the family.
        1. isofat Offline
          isofat (Sergei) 7 January 2020 23: 50
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          Quote: AlexZN
          Europeans created America, transferring Europe to the New World.

          Alexznfear God, America was not created by Europeans at all. America lived and flourished before the Europeans appeared there. Europeans robbed and killed America. And they did not transfer Europe there, but Africa, slaves were imported, so to speak. And the state of Lies and Deception, the USA, appeared. If you have a desire, I will continue. I’m not going to persuade you or save you when the bitches collapse beneath you, just don’t fool people with your “fantasies”.
        2. Lusis Offline
          Lusis (lusis) 8 January 2020 22: 39
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          .... Twice the Americans saved the Europeans in their European-World Wars ....

          From whom did they save? First they pushed their foreheads, waited, and then supposedly saved? Once again, from whom and from what were you saved?
        3. businessv Offline
          businessv (Vadim) 10 January 2020 10: 56
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          Quote: AlexZN
          the result of competent US policies that solved geostrategic problems and saved Europeans from dirty work.

          Where did you study, colleague? You have a clear problem with historical facts! The states entered the anti-Hitler coalition only in 1944, when a war was already going on in Europe. Entered in order to have influence in Europe and for nothing more! And if we had not helped them, then we couldn’t have done the landing normally. What kind of "short panties of Germany" are you talking about? smile If Hitler had not moved troops to the USSR, all of Europe would have been him, including England (for him this would have been a walk at all). And the mattresses would have been his best friend, but there is no subjunctive mood in history, so it happened as it happened, but the role that you gave the mattress so generously to them is completely unusual for them! They are only invaders, nothing more!
          1. isofat Offline
            isofat (Sergei) 10 January 2020 17: 38
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  7. Arkharov Offline
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 7 January 2020 13: 40
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    It was not in vain that I assumed that the following articles of the author would be even “cooler”.
    1. commbatant Offline
      commbatant (Sergei) 7 January 2020 20: 32
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      Quote: Arkharov
      It was not in vain that I assumed that the following articles of the author would be even “cooler”.

      When will your read begin? I propose the theme of the return of the Israeli military Golan to the peaceful and laboring people of the SAR ..., I will help with the pictures ...
      1. Arkharov Offline
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 7 January 2020 20: 42
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        commbatant
        AlexZN lucidly explained to you about the Golan. I think there’s no more reason to ask me this question. You and the "peaceful working people of the SAR" received a qualified answer from a person who is much more knowledgeable on this issue. I think you and your friends should be happy. Nobody will say anything new about this to you; please contact the Pope or Sportloto with complaints and suggestions.
        1. commbatant Offline
          commbatant (Sergei) 7 January 2020 21: 16
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          Quote: Arkharov
          commbatant
          To you Alexzn intelligibly about the Golan explained.

          And who is Alexzn? When did he become a source of international law?

          The Fourth Committee of the UN General Assembly, responsible for special political and decolonization issues, on Friday overwhelmingly again voted to adopt a resolution against the Israeli occupation of the Syrian Golan, as has been happening for many years in a row.
          The United States for the first time this year voted in favor of Israel: they usually abstained.
          151 countries supported the project, including Russia, against - traditionally Israel and the USA, 14 states abstained.

          https://aftershock.news/?q=node/702624&full

          Israel’s decision of December 14, 1981 to establish its laws, jurisdiction and government in the occupied Syrian Golan was declared null and void. Membership of the mountain plateau is considered to be the main subject of the Israeli-Syrian conflict, trying to decide which were undertaken before the start of the civil war in Syria.
          Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which in Israel are called Judea and Samaria, appeared after the victory of Israel in the Six Day War of 1967. Settlements are not considered part of Israel either internationally or even domestic law, unlike East Jerusalem or the Golan Heights. The UN considers these territories occupied.

          https://ria.ru/20191204/1561937006.html

          Does AlexZN himself know that he is an international legal body recognized by all countries included in the UN?
          1. Arkharov Offline
            Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 7 January 2020 21: 19
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            commbatant
            Why are you asking us with AlexZN, with manic insistence, to ask an empty question that has nothing to do with us? I wrote to you where you, along with the “working people of the SAR,” need to contact.
            1. commbatant Offline
              commbatant (Sergei) 7 January 2020 21: 23
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              Quote: Arkharov
              Why are you asking us with AlexZN, with manic persistence, to ask a question that has nothing to do with us?

              No need to teach the Russian Federation "intelligence reason", without you figure it out ....
              1. Arkharov Offline
                Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 7 January 2020 21: 26
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                commbatant
                Why did you write this either to the village or to the city? You ask questions yourself, you answer them yourself. Something your thoughts rush about, then the Golan, then someone teaches something to the Russian Federation? What is the relationship?
          2. Alexzn Offline
            Alexzn (Alexander) 8 January 2020 08: 54
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            I want to note that in the question is the word PASS. I specifically answered it - NEVER.
            Does anyone argue that the Golan was occupied? But they are annexed for a long time and nobody is going to give them away. For comparison - Crimea is annexed by Russia and they are not going to return it, from the word - NEVER. At the same time, I can cite UN resolutions on the occupation and annexation of Crimea.
            Clarified the situation for you?
            1. commbatant Offline
              commbatant (Sergei) 8 January 2020 14: 22
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              Quote: AlexZN
              Does anyone argue that the Golan was occupied? But they are annexed for a long time and nobody is going to give them away. For comparison - Crimea is annexed by Russia and they are not going to return it, from the word - NEVER. At the same time, I can cite UN resolutions on the occupation and annexation of Crimea.

              ... a poor comparison, to put it mildly ... The inhabitants of the Golan did not even think of expressing their will to join Israel and reside together with Israeli Jews in one state ....

              UN Security Council Resolution No. 497 - a document initiated on December 17, 1981 at the 2319th meeting of the UN Security Council in connection with the adoption by Israel of the Golan Heights Act.
              The resolution was adopted unanimously.

              UN General Assembly Resolution A / RES / 68/262 on the territorial integrity of Ukraine - a document adopted on March 27, 2014 as a result of an open vote at the 80th plenary meeting of the 68th session of the UN General Assembly. According to the resolution, the UN General Assembly confirms the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders and does not recognize the legality of any change in the status of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the status of the city of Sevastopol, based on the results of the Crimean referendum held on March 16, 2014, since this referendum , according to this resolution, has no legal force.
              Of the 193 UN member countries, 100 voted in favor, 11 voted against, 58 abstained, and 24 did not vote.

              You, an amateur and an "expert" in history, can you tell the kind and gullible forum users the difference between the resolutions adopted by the UN Security Council and the UN General Assembly?
              A small educational program for the "experts" of history and political science:

              UN Security Council.
              This body is considered the most important body because it is responsible for maintaining peace and security throughout the world. The Security Council is entrusted with ensuring or maintaining peace in the world, especially in areas torn by war. This body also serves as the peace police, as they impose appropriate sanctions on members who violate the law. The five permanent members of the UK are the USA, Great Britain, China, France and Russia. There are 125 more permanent members who have only a 2-year term. SC members also have a veto if they do not agree with the proposal of the members.

              UN General Assembly is one of the main bodies of the UN. This body consists of 192 member states. GA is responsible for appointing those who may participate in SC as a non-permanent member. GA is also responsible for the UN budget. And the GA also makes recommendations, called General Assembly resolutions, to various UN bodies and agencies. GA can advise on any topic discussed by the UN, with the exception of peace and security, which is controlled by SC.

              SUMMARY: The UN Security Council is responsible for peace and order, and the UN General Assembly is responsible for budget and recommendations.

              Thus, Israeli Jews did not care about the UN body, whose resolutions are binding on all UN countries, and the Russian Federation on the UN body, whose resolutions are advisory ....
              Besides:

              AN OCCUPATION - temporary occupation by significant military units one warring state of the territory of another warring state and the establishment in this territory of the administrative authority of the highest command authorities of the occupying forces.
              At the same time, the effective exercise of power in the occupied territory by the government of the state to which the territory belongs is terminated. The occupation does not lead to the extension of the sovereignty of the occupying state to the territory occupied by its troops, and the power of the military occupation administration is exercised within the limits established by international law.

              On the territory there is never and never was an occupation military administration of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
              Between Russia and Ukraine there is no, there was (I hope, and will not be) a state of war.
              The Republic of Crimea, after declaring itself an independent state, and holding a referendum on joining the Russian Federation, became the subject of the Russian Federation ....
              So

              Clarified the situation for you?

              - clarified the situation only for Arkharov and Israeli Jews .....
              Israeli Jews love to equate their seizures of the territories of their neighbors with the voluntary accession of peoples to the Russian Federation ....
              Work hard - you and Arkharov ...

              So, return the Golan to the SAR and free the land of Palestine from its settlements, respectively, in favor of the working people of the SAR and Palestine ... especially since even your masters, the Americans themselves, condemned your actions ....
  8. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 7 January 2020 14: 16
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    Also “unprecedented sanctions” ?! Or even new bombing attacks on Dresden?

    The author is even ready to defend Hitler, if only to blame the Americans. Carried away? Well, it would be worthwhile to know that the British were working in Dresden, and the United States bombed transport hubs.
    1. commbatant Offline
      commbatant (Sergei) 8 January 2020 14: 35
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      Quote: AlexZN
      Well, it would be worthwhile to know that the British were working in Dresden, and the United States bombed transport hubs.

      What you know, fortunately, is not the truth.
      Dresden was bombed not only by the British, but even more so by the Americans (by the number of bombers involved anyway) ....

      In the morning flew into the air 311 American B-17 bombersaccompanied by 72 P-51 Mustang fighters, divided into 2 groups.
      The next day, the city was bombed again 211 American bombers dropped 465 tons of high-explosive bombs on the city.
      Dresden. Chronicle of the tragedy (Alexey Denisov)
      Aleksey Denisov's film is dedicated to the 13 events of February 1945 of the year - the bombing of Dresden by the Anglo-American aircraft during the Second World War. This action was interpreted by the Allies as an act of assistance to Soviet troops advancing from the east, ostensibly in confirmation of the Yalta agreements.

      https://topwar.ru/8378-unichtozhenie-drezdena-1945-god.html
  9. bratchanin3 Offline
    bratchanin3 (Gennady) 7 January 2020 15: 27
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    The idea is not new, but very good, but, most importantly, real, but complex. Although the same "torn" the "brothers" from the open from Russia. About 30 years ago, it was absurd to think about it.
    1. commbatant Offline
      commbatant (Sergei) 7 January 2020 20: 36
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      Quote: bratchanin3
      ... the "brothers" were torn from the unbroken from Russia. About 30 years ago, it was absurd to think about it.

      All our "brothers" in the ATS and the USSR are already either in NATO, or dream of getting there, there is not enough money for all the "brothers" to make them at least consolidated ... with such "brothers" and enemies ...
      1. bratchanin3 Offline
        bratchanin3 (Gennady) 13 January 2020 20: 38
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        I commented about Foma, and not about Yaroma, or with the logic of the problem, or just what to write?
        1. commbatant Offline
          commbatant (Sergei) 13 January 2020 23: 02
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          Quote: bratchanin3
          I commented about Foma, and not about Yaroma, or with the logic of the problem, or just what to write?

          I just don’t write anything, unlike you, judging by your comments, you don’t have any logic.
          1. bratchanin3 Offline
            bratchanin3 (Gennady) 15 January 2020 20: 53
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            You still click your teeth for greater persuasiveness, you are an intelligent homespun! Judging by your comments, you have not only no logic, but also little sense. Gibberish alone!
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  11. businessv Offline
    businessv (Vadim) 7 January 2020 22: 18
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    If Russia and Germany, united, put an end to such attempts once and for all, this will truly become the highest manifestation of historical justice.

    Excellent, optimistic, even in some places unnecessarily, article! If there was such a final, then both GDP and Merkel could be erected monuments in life! To do this, we need a simple collective security treaty between the EU and Russia. smile
  12. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 8 January 2020 09: 00
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    Quote: isofat
    fear god

    I am an atheist who knows the story well.
    1. commbatant Offline
      commbatant (Sergei) 8 January 2020 13: 46
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      Quote: AlexZN
      well-versed in history.

      Well, well, here "all" historians, political scientists, military, philosophers, further down the list ...
      In the words of Gleb Zheglov, your number 16 ... stand and shut up, especially regarding the history of the creation of the USA and the settlement of two American continents with "good" people from the "Old World" ....
  13. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 8 January 2020 15: 25
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    Quote: commbatant
    Quote: AlexZN
    Well, it would be worthwhile to know that the British were working in Dresden, and the United States bombed transport hubs.

    What you know, fortunately, is not the truth.
    Dresden was bombed not only by the British, but even more so by the Americans (by the number of bombers involved anyway) ....

    In the morning flew into the air 311 American B-17 bombersaccompanied by 72 P-51 Mustang fighters, divided into 2 groups.
    The next day, the city was bombed again 211 American bombers dropped 465 tons of high-explosive bombs on the city.
    Dresden. Chronicle of the tragedy (Alexey Denisov)
    Aleksey Denisov's film is dedicated to the 13 events of February 1945 of the year - the bombing of Dresden by the Anglo-American aircraft during the Second World War. This action was interpreted by the Allies as an act of assistance to Soviet troops advancing from the east, ostensibly in confirmation of the Yalta agreements.

    https://topwar.ru/8378-unichtozhenie-drezdena-1945-god.html

    Let's not be out of the movie ...
    2/3 of all (2659 tons out of 3900) discharged to Dresden on February 14-15 are the work of the Royal Air Force. They bombed, in fact, the city, the Americans were more engaged in providing, reconnaissance and bombing of railway junctions. The main wave of the British consisted of 700 bombers. It was not an American, but an English response in memory of Coventry. Humiliation for humiliation.
    1. Alexzn Offline
      Alexzn (Alexander) 8 January 2020 15: 33
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      What you know, fortunately, is not the truth.
      Dresden was bombed not only by the British, but even more so by the Americans (by the number of bombers involved anyway) ....

      You watched a movie badly! Quite correct numbers are given there ...
  14. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 8 January 2020 15: 37
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    Quote: commbatant
    Quote: AlexZN
    well-versed in history.

    Well, well, here "all" historians, political scientists, military, philosophers, further down the list ...
    In the words of Gleb Zheglov, your number 16 ... stand and shut up, especially regarding the history of the creation of the USA and the settlement of two American continents with "good" people from the "Old World" ....

    Did I write somewhere about good people from the Old World? It’s strange. Why I didn’t notice it. Do not indicate where?
    I just wrote about the unified roots (civilizational, historical) on both sides of the Atlantic. And about their kindness, slaves, Indians, etc. - This is you comrades, without me thought.
    1. isofat Offline
      isofat (Sergei) 8 January 2020 16: 03
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      Quote: AlexZN
      And about their kindness, slaves, Indians, etc. - This is you, comrades, without me thought.

      In order not to argue once again and not to think of you, please decrypt:

      Quote: AlexZN
      Twice Americans saved Europeans in their European-World Wars.
  15. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 8 January 2020 16: 10
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    Quote: isofat
    Quote: AlexZN
    And about their kindness, slaves, Indians, etc. - This is you comrades, without me thought.

    In order not to argue once again and not to think of you, please decrypt:

    Quote: AlexZN
    Twice Americans saved Europeans in their European-World Wars.

    It is not clear how my first quote is related to the second.
    The second quote does not require decryption, it is self-sufficient.
    1. isofat Offline
      isofat (Sergei) 8 January 2020 16: 39
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      Quote: AlexZN
      The second quote does not require decryption, it is self-sufficient.

      Alexzn, then you're a liar, because the Americans did not save the Europeans in their European-world wars.
      1. Alexzn Offline
        Alexzn (Alexander) 8 January 2020 19: 58
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        It’s strange. You do not know the story, but I am a liar.
        1. isofat Offline
          isofat (Sergei) 8 January 2020 20: 12
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          Alexzn, I don’t know your story, tell me. About the European-World War in more detail. I have not heard of such wars.

          Quote: AlexZN
          Twice Americans saved Europeans in their European-World Wars.
          1. Alexzn Offline
            Alexzn (Alexander) 9 January 2020 08: 39
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            Quote: isofat
            tell me. About the European-World War in more detail. I have not heard of such wars.

            One could guess that this is nothing more than an indication of the source of both world wars.
            1. isofat Offline
              isofat (Sergei) 9 January 2020 16: 40
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              Quote: AlexZN
              One could guess that this is nothing more than an indication of the source of both world wars.

              Alexzn, I have to check your "coordinate system". Sorry.
              So, you introduced the new term -> European-world wars? You! Searched, did not find. Nobody knows about such wars. Why do you reproach me with this ignorance? Like, one could guess. At the same time, you specify that the term you entered is nothing more than an indication. Indication of the source of both world wars. In order not to be unfounded, I quote your phrase with which it all began:

              Quote: AlexZN
              Twice Americans saved Europeans in their European-World Wars.

              Here "- where exactly an indication to the source of world wars? I’m not even talking about the very source of these wars, but it’s not at all ... My untrue friend, you certainly need to check your "coordinate system". Yes.

              PS When communicating with you, I always regret that you cannot use all the features of our language, Russian. Everything that has been said above can be fully fit into a phrase of two, three words ...
        2. isofat Offline
          isofat (Sergei) 8 January 2020 21: 08
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          Quote: AlexZN
          It’s strange. You do not know the story, but I am a liar.

          Quote: AlexZN
          Twice Americans saved Europeans in their European-World Wars.

          Alexzn, tell how the Americans saved the Europeans in their European-world wars.
          PS Sorry to have to remind. Just a pause dragged on.
          1. Alexzn Offline
            Alexzn (Alexander) 8 January 2020 21: 23
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            Let's start with the USSR. Not quite a European country, but participated in the European-world.
            Need to tell how the Americans helped? Look at here.

            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki

            If this is not help, then what is help?
            1. isofat Offline
              isofat (Sergei) 8 January 2020 22: 01
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              I respect Kedmi for his love of his historic homeland, Israel. I respect Wasserman for his courage, he was able to admit that he was wrong and wrote the book "Why Socialism is Better than Capitalism ...". Not so long ago, together, being part of one nation, the USSR, we fought with the Nazis (our fathers and children).
              The next time we argue, don’t manipulate History, please.
              PS It was about salvation peoples. The United States primarily saved its economy. See you.
  16. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 8 January 2020 22: 25
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    Quote: isofat
    I respect Kedmi for his love of his historic homeland, Israel. I respect Wasserman for his courage, he was able to admit that he was wrong and wrote the book "Why Socialism is Better than Capitalism ...". Not so long ago, together, being part of one nation, the USSR, we fought with the Nazis (our fathers and children).
    The next time we argue, don’t manipulate History, please.
    PS It was about salvation peoples. The United States primarily saved its economy. See you.

    Their economy was in excellent condition.
    I did not write WHY, I wrote - saved!
    1. isofat Offline
      isofat (Sergei) 8 January 2020 22: 51
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      Alexznyou feel the difference "save"And"help","salvation"And"help"? From salvation you smoothly move to help, from European peoples to the peoples of the USSR. I do not want your shame and slowly smear you off, and you climb on the rampage. Thank God, I knew many Jews and they are not bad people. You Apparently, they decided to shake my opinion about this nation.
    2. isofat Offline
      isofat (Sergei) 8 January 2020 23: 01
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      The Great Depression (Great Depression) - the global economic crisis that began in October 1929 with the stock market crash in the United States and continued until 1939.

      Alexznwhen did the Second World War begin?
      I'm tired of poking you nose into the nonsense that you write here:

      Quote: AlexZN
      Their economy was in excellent condition.
      1. Alexzn Offline
        Alexzn (Alexander) 9 January 2020 08: 55
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        Quote: isofat
        The Great Depression (Great Depression) - the global economic crisis that began in October 1929 with the stock market crash in the United States and continued until 1939.

        AlexZN, when did the Second World War begin?
        I'm tired of poking you nose into the nonsense that you write here:

        Quote: AlexZN
        Their economy was in excellent condition.

        Once again - their economy was in excellent condition! Sorry, the crisis in its stage of crisis (if you heard about the stages of the crisis) passed (1929-1932), then followed the stage of recovery and recovery. Roosevelt's program was implemented and by 1941 (a formal entry into the World War II), the economy was not just growing, it was growing rapidly! The Americans did not have to participate in that war, moreover, they did not want to! The political elite was divided into two parts; the big one simply wanted to cash in on supplies without the political and especially military involvement of the country in the war. Here Churchill and to a certain extent Stalin tried.
        I'm afraid it’s easier to refer to the source. It is difficult to polemicize if a different level of basic knowledge and different coordinate systems.
        1. isofat Offline
          isofat (Sergei) 9 January 2020 15: 25
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          AlexZN, ok, ok, consider that you were able to convince me, and the US economy was in beautiful condition. I'm under your onslaught, so as not to get bogged down in numbers and graphs, I will retreat. But in the end I must say to you, my biased friend, that immediately after the Second World War, the US economy became more beautiful, three times, and continued to become everything more beautiful и more beautiful.
  17. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 9 January 2020 08: 35
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    Quote: isofat
    Alexznyou feel the difference "save"And"help","salvation"And"help"? From salvation you smoothly move to help, from European peoples to the peoples of the USSR. I do not want your shame and slowly smear you off, and you climb on the rampage. Thank God, I knew many Jews and they are not bad people. You Apparently, they decided to shake my opinion about this nation.

    Juggling. Millions of Soviet citizens survived thanks to HELP, having received food and medicine, millions of soldiers survived, having received their stew, alcohol, planes, tanks, trucks, etc. The help that saved millions is not a salvation.
    Well, to be honest, they saved Western Europe from communism, saved them from hunger and restarted the European economy.
    1. isofat Offline
      isofat (Sergei) 9 January 2020 15: 27
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      Alexznhow much more time you will reproach us with your help, we were able to pay for your help only on August 21, 2006. We do not mind this money, we would give more so that there would be fewer victims. Just do not lie, Mr. liar, that you saved us. You wrote about salvation. Here is the statement, the proof of which you prove, and I convict you of a lie:

      Quote: AlexZN
      Twice Americans saved Europeans in their European-World Wars. Europeans understand this and pay with black ingratitude, which is quite natural.

      Do not replace the concept of "salvation" with the term "help"!
      1. Alexzn Offline
        Alexzn (Alexander) 9 January 2020 17: 39
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        It’s you who are a liar, if you don’t see salvation in someone’s help. Well, I don’t remember reproaching for help ... Here is a story in which there is no help from the allies ... Although ... the allies also excelled in silence and protrusion ...
        PS Let's refrain from level attacks - you are a liar.
        1. isofat Offline
          isofat (Sergei) 9 January 2020 18: 09
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          Quote: AlexZN
          It’s you who are a liar if you don’t see salvation in someone’s help.

          Alexzn, indicate to me your personal account, I will throw off some amount to you, I will help, so to speak. Then I really want to walk with a proud look and call myself your savior.
        2. isofat Offline
          isofat (Sergei) 10 January 2020 02: 50
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          An interview with the future US President, Senator Harry Truman, given to the New York Times on June 24, 1941:

          If we see that Germany wins, then we should help Russia, and if Russia will win, we should help Germany, and let them, therefore, kill each other as much as possible ...
        3. isofat Offline
          isofat (Sergei) 10 January 2020 02: 55
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          The American political scientist and sociologist Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was the US National Security Advisor in 1977-1981, an ardent opponent of the USSR, was not inclined to exaggerate the role of the United States in the Victory:

          It is ironic that the defeat of Nazi Germany raised America's international status, although it did not play a decisive role in the military victory over Hitlerism. The merit of achieving this victory should be recognized by the Stalinist Soviet Union, Hitler’s odious rival.
  18. Alexzn Offline
    Alexzn (Alexander) 9 January 2020 17: 33
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    That immediately after the Second World War, the US economy became even more beautiful, three times, and continued to become more beautiful and more beautiful.

    It has become. Does anyone argue with this? Or do you think I suspected Americans of altruism? When I spoke of salvation, I did not seem to mention angelic intentions ...
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  21. aries2200 Offline
    aries2200 (aries) 13 January 2020 03: 28
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    Merkel’s visit to Moscow may become historic ....

    - the babble of honey plants ... sat and sit deep in the sanction hole. laughing laughing laughing