Technological Amnesia: Both US ships fail tests


The SpaceX Crew Dragon reusable ship on a test bench. Photo: SpaceX


Failures haunt American attempts to return to manned space exploration. Earlier ground testing of SpaceX's Crew Dragon unmanned capsule happened its explosion, which seriously hindered the timing of the project. The day before, due to problems with automation, which we described in detail earlier, unsuccessfully completed its mission to the ISS Starliner Boeing Corporation. Having missed the target orbit and spending too much fuel, he was forced to prematurely return to Earth, landing in the state of New Mexico.

The SpaceX and Boeing projects present a real and direct threat to the Russian “Unions”. American ships are able to take on board more than two times more crew members than an aging, cramped, domestic space veteran. In addition, having acquired two of its own manned spacecraft, NASA will be able to refuse the services of Roscosmos to deliver astronauts to the ISS, which we told earlier. Recall that the cost of one ticket is currently $ 80 million, which will be a tangible loss for the state corporation.

What problems have the Americans encountered that continue to maintain the relevance of our "Unions"?


Reusable Starliner ship after landing in New Mexico. Photo: NASA

In theory, the United States already has a serious scientifictechnical base and experience of our own manned space exploration. Since then, progress has stepped far forward, new technologies and materials have appeared. Why not just revive the past by improving it? It turns out that everything is much more complicated.

Over the past half century, both in the USA and in our country the engineering school has changed, its approaches to solving technical problems, there are no longer those people who implemented these advanced projects for their time. It may seem unbelievable, but many of the most important data the developers kept in their heads. For example, in the nineties, NASA planned to send the Mars Pathfinder mission to Mars and planned to use the achievements of the previous Viking-1 and Viking-2 programs. It turned out that not all information was preserved in the archives. I had to recover data, referring to veterans of the American space industry.


Explosion of SpaceX Crew Dragon's reusable spacecraft in trials

The stable terms “technological amnesia” and “engineering archeology” have already appeared, which testifies to the systemic nature of the problem. Several decades have passed since the Apollo program. The United States first switched to Space Shuttle, and then abandoned them in favor of the Russian Unions. Competencies and experience have been lost in many respects; the reconstruction of technologies is coming with serious difficulties. Attempts to transfer the previous technical solutions to modern tasks are faced with many unexpected obstacles.

Of course, sooner or later the Americans will solve their problems. But until then, our “Unions” remain a reliable and proven “workhorse”.
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  1. Port Offline
    Port 23 December 2019 10: 19
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    It seems that the hegemordor visited the moon only in Isaac Asimov’s fantasies.
  2. Arkharov Offline
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 December 2019 10: 49
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    Well, plus / minus a few months do not solve anything. In principle, a normal process. The future flights of these ships, and there are several more private projects seriously pecking, are not subject to any doubt.
    1. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 December 2019 10: 52
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      Port-astronaut Pavel Vinogradov said that Americans’s stay on the moon in 1969 does not require verification, since there is enough evidence.

      "There are pictures of the Americans landing on a satellite, there are modules. What else can I talk about? Prove, that stupidity is stupidity, the most ungrateful thing, ”said Vinogradov.
      1. Wooh Offline
        Wooh (Barmaley) 24 December 2019 13: 32
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        "There are pictures of the Americans landing on the satellite, there are modules. What else can I talk about? To prove that stupidity is stupidity, the most ungrateful thing," said Vinogradov.

        Where are the modules? If they stood, then the Americans must have shown them. However, they forgot to enter them in the film studio. And yet, there was such an astronaut Alexei Arkhipovich Leonov. He also drowned for the Americans. But if you rephrase the learned owl: "Not Free." Evidence that the Americans were on the moon is sucked out of the finger, but the fact that they were not is complete. Read "PEPELATSY" fly to the moon!

        http://www.free-inform.narod.ru/

        And for the literate for us. wassat
        1. Arkharov Offline
          Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 24 December 2019 16: 33
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          Look, although it’s clear you won’t convince you. For you, this will be the collapse of the picture of the universe that you invented. Although understandable, faith does not require evidence.
          Already modern (2009), taken from a near-moon orbit, photos of the Apollo landing sites:

          http://www.lroc.asu.edu/images/videos
  3. Port Offline
    Port 23 December 2019 12: 16
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    Quote: Arkharov
    "To prove that stupidity is stupidity is the most ungrateful thing," said Vinogradov.

    This is how it was necessary to fly, that the technology of the fly was forgotten, drunk by compass and insole?
    1. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 December 2019 14: 07
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      Did they tell you about the loss of technology on zomboTV? Do you believe everything written on the fence?
      1. isofat Offline
        isofat (Sergei) 23 December 2019 15: 09
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        Rosie's mannequin aboard the Starliner during a test flight that ended on Sunday is in good condition, NASA reported.

        PS This is perhaps the only good news for the United States. Almost a quarter of the 21st century has passed. When, finally ... sad
        1. Arkharov Offline
          Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 December 2019 15: 20
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          And the end, it seems, soon, in the Unions there is simply no one and nowhere to carry, 1-2 of our astronauts a year to the ISS and all? By the way, the main points in the flight worked. It wasn’t wasted at all and the reason was called back during the flight. Unfortunately, either sloppiness, or incompetence of individual performers. It turns out, and it happens there.
          1. isofat Offline
            isofat (Sergei) 23 December 2019 15: 28
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            Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov)According to US media, the main tasks have not been completed. This is not sloppiness and incompetence of individual performers. This is a failure of the USA.
            1. Arkharov Offline
              Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 December 2019 15: 33
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              Do you personally read the US media? And what? And why failure? Do you all want to somehow prove that they have now "all gone"? You see, whether you want it or not, write something here, I'm afraid it will not affect this in future events on this topic. It's about monkeys and a buzzing transformer box. Running monkeys with clubs, knocking on the walls of the transformer booth, "so as not to buzz." And they don’t understand that the booth will still buzz, knock - do not knock.
              1. isofat Offline
                isofat (Sergei) 23 December 2019 16: 08
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                Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov), you cannot prove the success of the USA in space. Monkeys will not help you with this. They are virtual, and the facts are real.
                1. Arkharov Offline
                  Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 December 2019 21: 08
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                  Do not tell, my dear. I’m not going to prove anything to you personally, and this is not necessary (see earlier about the transformer box).
                  1. isofat Offline
                    isofat (Sergei) 23 December 2019 21: 15
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                    Arkharovhow many fallen American missiles can convince you that the "king is naked"?
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                      2. Arkharov Offline
                        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 December 2019 21: 28
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                        You really tired me, it’s painfully boring and predictable. On this,
                        probably the discussion is over, in view of its meaninglessness.
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                      5. Aleksey Glotov Offline
                        Aleksey Glotov (alexey glotov) 25 December 2019 01: 45
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                        Blown away by Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) ... and he started so well.)))
          2. lev1759 Offline
            lev1759 (Eugene) 24 December 2019 18: 56
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            Running monkeys with clubs, knocking on the walls of the transformer booth, "so as not to buzz." And they don’t understand that the booth will still buzz, knock - do not knock.

            But except for the “buzz”, the amers have no figs ... The transformer box stands, buzzes, but there was no voltage at the output either.
      2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline
        Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 24 December 2019 21: 33
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        This sloppiness costs half a billion dollars. Approximately 8-9 Unions. tongue
  • mister-red Offline
    mister-red 23 December 2019 16: 49
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    Quote: Arkharov
    And the end, it seems, soon, in the Unions there is simply no one and nowhere to carry, 1-2 of our astronauts a year to the ISS and all? By the way, the main points in the flight worked. It wasn’t wasted at all and the reason was called back during the flight. Unfortunately, either sloppiness, or incompetence of individual performers. It turns out, and it happens there.

    And before whom they drove, you can ask? The times of the USSR, when they rolled friends from socialist countries for free, do not remember.
    1. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 23 December 2019 21: 13
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      They also drove the Americans, and by no means for free. And then with whom will the Unions fly? How many of our astronauts fly to the ISS per year? You know? And there’s nowhere else and nobody with !!!! Around the Earth, just in circles, like Gagarin? It seems like they don’t fly now. Only fairy tales about space tourism, lunar stations, etc. do not.
      1. mister-red Offline
        mister-red 23 December 2019 22: 33
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        It seems like the Americans just removed from the discussion.
        In fact, pay attention to China - for 3 years no one was sent into space. Honestly, I don’t know the reasons. And they seem to have a lot of money, a strong economy, etc.
      2. maratkoRuEkb Offline
        maratkoRuEkb (Marat) 24 December 2019 08: 02
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        A live crew will not be sent to Krudragon and Starliner until a sufficient number of test launches is made. Any cosmonaut agrees to fly to the Union; this is the most reliable apparatus. In addition, our finalize the new ship Federation. If you were an astronaut personally, what would you fly on? On the Union or Krudragon and Starliner?) I would choose the Union, I really want to live.
        1. Arkharov Offline
          Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 24 December 2019 08: 39
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          Of course, they will do a sufficient number of test launches. I don’t think anyone will rush. But once on any ship for the first time people fly. And in the first Union Mosquitoes flew. At the beginning, in general (and not only at the beginning), anything can be anything, but anyway they go for it.
          1. maratkoRuEkb Offline
            maratkoRuEkb (Marat) 24 December 2019 09: 53
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            Your rhetoric originally sounded like this:

            And then with whom will the Unions fly? How many of our astronauts fly to the ISS per year? You know? And there’s nowhere else and nobody with !!!!

            From your words, it seems that since the United States refused to fly to the Union, all of our space exploration dies like never before))
            Well, in general, the initially manned flight on Dragon was planned in May 2018, and now unmanned test flights have just begun.
            The Boeing planned a manned flight in August 2018, and just as it is testing the ship.
            I just wanted to tell you that you buried our manned astronautics early.
            1. Arkharov Offline
              Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 24 December 2019 10: 27
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              Wonderful breathtaking rhetoric. But you never answered where, with whom, and how many times a year Unions will fly after the failure of the Americans?
              1. maratkoRuEkb Offline
                maratkoRuEkb (Marat) 24 December 2019 10: 34
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                For 20 years, 2 flights of Unions to the ISS are planned, in total 4 Russians and 2 Americans will fly. And what did you want to prove with your question?
                1. Arkharov Offline
                  Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 24 December 2019 11: 09
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                  And in the 21st then alone? This is what I want to say, there is nothing here to mock and rejoice at least some kind of failure over other cosmic powers. They have at least something new, not without problems, but flying. Something really new isn’t really visible yet, and the old stuff inevitably gradually dies.
                  1. isofat Offline
                    isofat (Sergei) 24 December 2019 11: 36
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                    Arkharov, you probably remember the times of the cold war, the confrontation between the USSR and the USA? Now the situation is much worse. Not our weapons are located on the borders of the United States. We do not threaten sanctions to the Americans. So Mr. Arkharov, you’ll excuse me for rejoicing at the failures of the aggressor state.
                    1. Arkharov Offline
                      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 24 December 2019 11: 45
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                      Interestingly, but there are people like you in the States? If there is, and there are a lot of them, then this is bad for both countries and the whole world as a whole.
                      1. isofat Offline
                        isofat (Sergei) 24 December 2019 12: 10
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                        ArkharovWas it me who started a nuclear arms race and dropped two bombs that destroyed two cities of civilians? Moreover, this is only a small part of the list of US crimes.
                  2. maratkoRuEkb Offline
                    maratkoRuEkb (Marat) 24 December 2019 12: 32
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                    You are an interesting character) by hook or by crook trying to whitewash the white gentleman) does he pay you money?)
                    In the year 21, they plan three flights of the Unions, and so what?
                    You are so strange, you write that they have something new, but I told you, they also don’t sit in our place, they are doing the Federation. And do you really not understand that the Unions flying now are not the Unions that flew in the 20th century, they are constantly being modernized and improved. You just need to bark about anything. To call our ships junk is nonsense.
                    Accept the fact that your beloved white gentleman loses in the technological race. They have a crisis in finance, economics, politics, and society. The hegemon is coming soon.
                    1. Arkharov Offline
                      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 24 December 2019 16: 51
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                      Federation has been doing since 2009. Recently, they say, they were actively working on renaming, I think this would greatly help the project. And as for the Unions, even if we assume that you are telling the truth about 3 flights in 21 and that these will be manned flights (I don’t want to check), then these are plans (and are they often fulfilled?), Then let 9 people get somewhere at 21 to fly them? Do we ourselves send 9 people a year to the ISS? Answer me?
                      Well, about this, I have not even heard on Channel 1:

                      Deal with your beloved white master loses in the technological race.

                      Sorry, but is this something completely new? Who are you writing this for?
                      1. maratkoRuEkb Offline
                        maratkoRuEkb (Marat) 25 December 2019 13: 09
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                        Similarly, the Federation is now called the Eagle, you threw the link that the Eagle turned out to be heavy, do not worry, they will finalize and facilitate.
                        You write about the plans of Roscosmos, "are these plans so far (and are they often fulfilled?)" Doubt, so, but let us together doubt the plans of Spaceics and Boeing? Or do gentlemen believe the word? And we do not believe Russian barbarians?)
                        As for 9 people in space: I didn’t say that it would be only Russians, 3 flights of the Soyuz spacecraft are planned for the ISS, crews will be mixed, Americans, Europeans and anyone, I do not mind, let them buy tickets and fly, since you don’t can.
                        Let me name you something that your friends cannot:
                        - nuclear energy - we have the most advanced;
                        - icebreakers - the very best with us;
                        - hypersonic weapons - only with us;
                        - the best air defense - with us;
                        - the best electronic warfare systems - with us;
                        - RD180 rocket engine - buy from us.
                      2. Arkharov Offline
                        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 25 December 2019 14: 09
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                        I'm talking about 21 years old - what kind of Americans are in the Unions? Yes, and about the Europeans strongly doubt it. And besides icebreakers and partially air defense (although really not really tested anywhere), I would not agree with anything on your list. Hypersonic weapons are an absolutely muddy story. And about RD180 you would not recall yesterday, which is bought only for economic reasons, rightly believing that you need to invest only in really new developments. There was absolutely the right temporary solution, and soon it seems that they will cease altogether. And no one needed the icebreakers anymore, so they didn’t build it. I don’t think that an icebreaker is more complicated than a nuclear carrier. They consider it necessary, build, and perhaps not in such a distant time. And what do you say in hundreds, if not thousands of directions? !!!
                      3. isofat Offline
                        isofat (Sergei) 25 December 2019 15: 03
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                        Arkharov, I expect from you a courageous act, the only way I can change my opinion about you for the better. Do not tighten. yes
                      4. maratkoRuEkb Offline
                        maratkoRuEkb (Marat) 25 December 2019 15: 12
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                        I doubt very much that astronauts will be delivered to the ISS in 21 with something other than the Union.
                        You do not know about Russia's achievements in nuclear energy? Well, this is a minus to you. Read, deeply understand and understand something.

                        Hypersonic weapons are an absolutely muddy story.

                        - Well, it’s you who have gone too far, if this is a murky story, then why is the US so fussy? Now the grandmothers are urgently swelling to make their own analogue ... in about 10 years, maybe something will work out. Well, for you to understand: the existing air defense systems cannot intercept a hypersonic missile. Your favorite aircraft carrier prodigies are multiplied by zero with dagger missiles.
                        Something they have malacholny carriers some recently obtained, the same and icebreakers will be in 10 years)))
                        And in other areas we are doing well) the economy is stable, the army is strong, there is work. Huge projects are being carried out ... the Crimean bridge was built, but how much stink was there?
                      5. Arkharov Offline
                        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 25 December 2019 15: 38
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                        All this I word for word, especially about a stable economy, I could (if I had ever turned it on) to listen to channel 1, but they talk about hypersonic weapons better on REN TV. So you should not work hard, better than there, you will not succeed. So let's finish.
                    2. maratkoRuEkb Offline
                      maratkoRuEkb (Marat) 25 December 2019 15: 34
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                      And separately I kick you for the RD-180, which they dared to call -

                      ... yesterday, which is bought only for economic reasons.

                      - they do not have better or cheaper engines. than ours. To create a new engine is more than one year of work; behind the engine is the work of research institutes and factories. This is not for you to rivet phones with rounded corners. Read the engines of yesterday or the day before in the Falcon rocket at the Mask ??
                    3. Arkharov Offline
                      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 25 December 2019 15: 51
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                      What do you not understand the meaning of the read? I just wrote about this to you that there is not the slightest sense for them to develop something similar to the RD-180, with its 30-year-old technologies. Therefore, they buy it purely for economic reasons, so as not to waste money on developing what is more profitable and easier while buy!!!
                    4. isofat Offline
                      isofat (Sergei) 25 December 2019 15: 58
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                      Arkharova it is impossible to win, not because he is "elusive" and nobody needs it, but because even the gods are powerless against stupidity.
            2. Arkharov Offline
              Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 24 December 2019 17: 18
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              More about technological superiority in space, so as not to go far:

              https://topcor.ru/12325-prototip-rossijskogo-pilotiruemogo-korablja-orel-okazalsja-slishkom-tjazhelym.html

              https://topcor.ru/12476-pechalnyj-itog-rakety-semejstva-angara-priznali-besperspektivnymi.html
              1. isofat Offline
                isofat (Sergei) 24 December 2019 18: 26
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                You are like a hurt boy. Explain where the US rockets for flights to the ISS? Where, in the end, is the US cop? We do not need to prove our superiority. I, like, managed to send you a link to the US media. Symbols did not pass all and as a result of 404, I'm sorry if I had to wait.
  • steelmaker Offline
    steelmaker 23 December 2019 17: 04
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    And I am pleased to read such news. It’s just that if the USA succeeds, it will be very difficult for Russia to catch up with current managers. And I want to believe that in space Russia will be "ahead of the rest."
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  • Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 24 December 2019 09: 17
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    They wrote about the same thing about returning steps, mini-shuttles and frequent launches ....
    But the accident somehow ended, for 2-3 years it worked.
    But according to the projects of Roscosmos, everything is more incomprehensible ...
  • Yuri Nemov Offline
    Yuri Nemov (Yuri Nemov) 24 December 2019 12: 29
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    This is called corruption. They stole the budget, now the ships explode and fall. All this is nonsense that in the US private companies are developing these ships. This is a cover from taxpayers so that they shout less about corruption. All work out on budget money.
  • Izzy Gubinstein Offline
    Izzy Gubinstein (Izya Gubinstein) 24 December 2019 13: 21
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    Amazing amersky gadget landed on bags of raisins.
  • cmonman Offline
    cmonman (Garik Mokin) 24 December 2019 17: 15
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    ... constitute a real and direct threat to the Russian Unions.

    Even normal competition in Russia is called a “threat”?
    C'mon, man!
    I would call this not a “threat”, but a “crowding out of business,” because the price for the flight of the 1st astronaut will be cheaper even for Russia. It will be more profitable for her to fly on Amer ships than on her own.

    ... stable terms "technological amnesia" and "engineering archeology" appeared, which testifies to the systemic nature of the problem. Several decades have passed since the Apollo program.

    Author, don't mix Boeing and SpaceX. All of NASA's rocket development documentation was handed over to all private companies wishing to build their own rockets for free. And if the engineers found that these ideas are outdated, they created their own. And new ideas are tested and fly. And like everything new, something is surely not smooth somewhere. But the process is going on ...
    You can sneak about malfunctions or discuss the “cut”, but this is a pug against an elephant - zero attention from NASA, Boeing and SpaceX.
    If not in 2020, then in 2021 there will be no one to fly in the Unions.
  • shadow Offline
    shadow 24 December 2019 21: 58
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    The Americans lost everything, all the originals. What kind of pictures can be discussed then? In addition, neither in 2010 did the Japanese find traces of the Apollo, nor the Chinese on their lunar rover. And in 2012, NASA itself announced that they did not have the technologies that could overcome the belt of Chudakov (Van Allen). Chudakov discovered the radiation belt earlier, but published later. Oh yes. The USSR handed over their empty capsule, which should be with astronauts in it and this transmission was captured in the photo. And so you can continue to believe in a fairy tale about flying to the moon.
    1. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 25 December 2019 07: 10
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      Do not lie.

      http://www.lroc.asu.edu/images/videos
      1. shadow Offline
        shadow 25 December 2019 22: 46
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        And here is RIA Novosti. Please note who they ask and who answers them. This is about not lying.
        By the way, read the whole article. An interesting article, especially the ending.

        https://ria.ru/20060816/52727659.html
    2. Vyacheslav Kolesov (Vyacheslav Kolesov) 3 January 2020 18: 09
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      Well, why .... for analysis, the materials submitted by the Indians (Chandrayaan-1 apparatus), the Japanese (Kaguya apparatus) and the Chinese (Chang'e-2 apparatus) are quite sufficient: all three agencies officially confirmed that they found traces left by the ships "Apollo".
      1. shadow Offline
        shadow 3 January 2020 21: 54
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        Not found. All three confirmed that they were not found. The Americans even tried to make sure that the Chinese lunar rover did not reach the place of their landing.
  • Vyacheslav Kolesov (Vyacheslav Kolesov) 3 January 2020 18: 01
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    Undoubtedly, the problems will be solved only without the participation of business ... to be pioneers in space - the presence of talented designers and engineers and a large number of trial and error that can only be achieved by a state with a strong economy ...
  • av58 Offline
    av58 (Andrei) 5 January 2020 20: 55
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    We have spaceships explode, and the Americans explode. This is a process of cognition and construction, you can’t speed it up. Until the mistakes that must be made are corrected, they will exist. Sooner or later, the Americans will solve their technical problems, and we need to do the same in order not to be caught up.