Chinese media told what the USSR would be like today if it hadn’t disintegrated


The Chinese publication "Phoenix" published material, the author of which by comparing the territory, population, economic and the military power of the Soviet Union and Russia, trying to understand what place the “unique giant” could occupy in the international arena if it hadn’t collapsed in 1991.


After the borders of the USSR were finally formed, its territory occupied an area of ​​22 million square kilometers, which in itself represents a certain degree of military potential and the country's strategic depth.

The territory of today's Russia is also huge: it is 17 million square kilometers, or 76% of the territory of the Soviet Union, but for the most part these are sparsely populated territories of Siberia.

In terms of human potential, the USSR was twice as large as present-day Russia — 270 million people against 140 million. Accordingly, the Soviet Army had almost five million soldiers, and today in the Russian Armed Forces there are about 1 million military personnel.

In addition, present-day Russia is experiencing a demographic crisis, which it has not been able to overcome.

To understand the gap between the economies of the USSR and Russia, it is enough to say that the GDP of the Soviet Union reached 70% of US GDP, while Russia's GDP is only 10%.

After its collapse, the military potential of the Soviet Union was divided between the newly formed states, and although Russia acquired most of it, it is many times less than the power that the USSR possessed.

At the end of the article, the author concludes that if the Soviet Union existed, even if there was no progress in the country, the United States would hardly have begun to provoke it.

The USSR, if preserved, would have remained a power of global importance, with which the United States would continue the struggle for world hegemony.
  • Photos used: https://golospravdy.eu/
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  1. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 28 November 2019 10: 24
    +5
    The main thing is forgotten! The man who would lead the USSR. After all, the USSR did not go to Gorbachev and the EBN after the war and devastation, as after 1921 and 1945. And who would have imagined that these two would voluntarily begin to realize Hitler and Churchill's plans! And Putin has 2 million live questions every year, and at the congress of the EP party he persuades their hospitals to rebuild themselves, without waiting for him to be asked a live broadcast. A SHAME!! In 1924, any other, only he and his protege !!!!!
    1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 28 November 2019 11: 17
      -1
      Do you remember all Yeltsin, but he was in power for only 9 years, and what to do with the remaining 20?
    2. tom44 Offline tom44
      tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 13: 47
      -3
      Quote: steel maker
      And who would have imagined that these two will voluntarily begin to realize the plans of Hitler and Churchill!

      That’s what Hitler and Churchill thought least of all was about the structure of the USSR.

      Quote: steel maker
      In 1924, any other, only he and his protege !!!!!

      Hope the young man fed ...
      You somehow do not understand the structure of the state (Russian) and society.
    3. Sake Offline Sake
      Sake (Sake) 28 November 2019 19: 21
      +1
      If you think the question is, “when he gets married,” then 2 million questions in the giveaway is not such a problem. Another thing is a live discussion with Navalny, for example? I’m sure that during the first 30 minutes Putin would be rolled up under the baseboard!
  2. Afinogen Offline Afinogen
    Afinogen (Afinogen) 28 November 2019 10: 25
    +1
    Well what can I say, just pour salt on the wound. There was a black spot in our history and such a spot that we can’t forget or wash away, and this spot is Gorbachev. While the people rejoiced in life, built up and defended themselves, we got our own Judah from Kiriath (who, as a person, was entrusted with the government). And so he opened the gate from the fortress of the USSR to the enemy. As the ancient proverb says -

    A donkey loaded with gold will take any fortress.

    - Philip II of Macedon. The enemies plundered the state, dismembered and rejoiced at their victory, put a clique at the head of this ruined state, which lives on, bathes in luxury while the people vegetate in poverty (and this is in the richest and largest state on planet Earth). But I think, I'm just sure that Russia - mother will rise, it will be even stronger and richer.
    1. tom44 Offline tom44
      tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 14: 11
      -5
      Quote: Athenogen
      There was a black spot in our history and such a spot that we can’t forget or wash away, and this spot is Gorbachev.

      What is Gorbachev's spot?
      The spot is Trotsky with vice chairman Ulyanov.
      And Dzhugashvili, so this is completely a Friday.
      And Gorbachev, that’s right, a speck.

      Quote: Athenogen
      While the people rejoiced in life, they created and defended themselves ...

      Life in the USSR was rejoiced only by fools.
      Created .... But no one created anything. Primarily. In addition to the German guest workers after the war.
      Then the Germans parted. And gradually there was nothing to eat again.
      And from whom did the USSR defend itself in the 80s? Who attacked him?

      Quote: Athenogen
      And so he opened the gate from the fortress of the USSR to the enemy.

      Would you prefer the entire population of the "USSR fortress" to die out?

      Quote: Athenogen
      The state looted ...

      So not that to rob, the local people had nothing to eat. What kind of world do you live in?

      Quote: Athenogen
      while the people live in poverty

      In fact, Soviet citizens vegetated in poverty. Who had nothing but a bald carpet on the wall of a rented (near the state) apartment, vases of “Czech glass” in the sideboard and trousers wiped on the ass, there was nothing.

      Quote: Athenogen
      and this is in the richest and largest state on planet Earth)

      In terms of wealth, Russia ranks 21st in the world. She is a little richer than Singapore and a little poorer than Israel.
      The United States is 99,3 times richer than Russia.
      Formally, Russia is the largest state in the world. But in fact, 85% of its territory is not suitable for permanent residence of a person (except for indigenous peoples). For normal life in Russia, about 2,56 million square meters remain. km This is slightly more than Algeria, and slightly less than Kazakhstan. And in general, 9th place in the world.
      The United States is 3,7 times larger than Russia (if we compare the areas suitable for permanent residence).
    2. Sake Offline Sake
      Sake (Sake) 28 November 2019 19: 28
      0
      Those who have plundered the country do not need to look far for them; they are still at work, you just have to look through the Forbes list and walk along the hot coast, where all the thieves and bribe takers are. So, the whole problem is in the slavish nature of the robbed people!
      1. tom44 Offline tom44
        tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 20: 04
        -3
        Quote: Sake
        those who plundered the country, they do not have to look far

        Which country was looted? The one that in the 90s drove around the world with outstretched hands, asking for humanitarian aid? Was she looted? Was there anything to rob?

        Quote: Sake
        and walk along the hot coast, where all the thieves and bribe takers are

        In the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation there is an article "Slander," if that.

        Quote: Sake
        So the whole problem is in the slavish nature of the robbed people!

        That mentally slaves is not news. They could not be different, the slave-owning mode of production under "Soviet socialism" in the USSR did not leave them any chances.
        Worse is not this, worse is that they, contrary to the history of planet Earth, consider the slave-owning society to be the most perfect of all existing. And they urge everyone, especially those offended by the mind, to return there. Like, "there was scanty soldering, but at the same time they were all about the same." Exactly so, "scanty equal rations for everyone" and their "justice" looks like.
        1. plabu Offline plabu
          plabu 29 November 2019 11: 19
          0
          Who is calling anyone there? Your nonsense - at least about slave owners, at least about soldering - and comment on it yourself).
          1. tom444 Offline tom444
            tom444 (tom44) 30 November 2019 09: 08
            -1
            Quote: 321
            Their nonsense - at least about slave owners, at least about soldering

            Read books, 321. Engage in self-education. Then maybe something will reach you.
            And having in the base "a short methodological guide to the propagandist of the CPSU district committee" you will not go far. And you won’t get close either. So you will "observe the world" through a hole in the cold "birdhouse".
            1. plabu Offline plabu
              plabu 30 November 2019 10: 32
              +2
              Is that what you wrote about your “base”? Well, it’s your choice, and your attempts to imagine something here, such as the “discoverer” or “inventor” of a new theory about slave owners, are NOT interesting to me at all, I’ll also be discussing here, wait ...), over you even making fun of it is less and less interesting - you are boring, monotonous and predictable) from the commentary to the commentary you all have the same thing - at least about the "birdhouses") or the "brief methodological manual of the propagandist of the CPSU district committee"), well, dream on this topic further , who is to blame for the fact that your dreams and your “argumentation” are further advanced by birdhouses? not able to)))
              PS But books, or rather, they are called differently, I write, and not the first decade, but it has nothing to do with you).
  3. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 28 November 2019 11: 14
    -2
    In terms of human potential, the USSR was twice as large as present-day Russia — 270 million people against 140 million. Accordingly, the Soviet Army had almost five million soldiers, and today in the Russian Armed Forces there are about 1 million military personnel.

    - probably not because the example of the DPRK with its huge army speaks about this. You can probably do now 10 million. Only this is really necessary now, and the example of the “torn” USSR speaks volumes.
  4. tom44 Offline tom44
    tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 13: 36
    -3
    Chinese media told what the USSR would be like today if it hadn’t disintegrated

    Interestingly, writing articles of this kind, do they believe in what they write?
    If yes, then urgently to the doctor.

    The territory of today's Russia is also huge: it is 17 million square kilometers, or 76% of the territory of the Soviet Union, but for the most part these are sparsely populated territories of Siberia.

    Exactly. The enormity of Russia is a fake. Approximately 85% of Russia is unsuitable for permanent residence (except for indigenous peoples).
    - 60% is permafrost.
    - 22% of swamps and wetlands.
    - 4% of the river and lake.
    For normal life, there are about 2,56 million square kilometers. This is a little, a little more than Algeria and a little less than Kazakhstan. Of these, 2,2 million square meters are involved in agricultural turnover. km
    This area also has forests, ravines, deserts, mountains, salt marshes, as well as part of the land being flooded.

    To understand the gap between the economies of the USSR and Russia, it is enough to say that the Soviet Union’s GDP reached 70% of the US GDP, while Russia's GDP is only 10%.

    The USSR’s GDP is taken at the official and virtual rate of the State Bank (67 kopecks per dollar) and all this is supposedly converted into dollars.
    But this is fiction, fake.
    The real dollar exchange rate in the USSR on the black market in the late 80s was from 3 to 5 rubles. for a dollar. Those. an average of 4 rubles. And taking this into account, the USSR's GDP to the US was about 11,5-12%. That already becomes like the truth.
    In addition, measured GDP, this is a stupid occupation for the uneducated. It is necessary to compare the "value of the country", and not its income (GDP). And at the cost of Russia, this is approximately 1,0% of the "value of the United States." Moreover, the "value of the USSR" could not be more than 1,2% of the "value of the United States."

    The USSR, if preserved, would have remained a power of world importance with which the United States would continue the USSR, if preserved, would have remained a power of world importance with which the United States would continue the struggle for world hegemony. .

    The USSR was NEVER a world power; people were simply constantly deceived. And what certainly didn’t exist was the “struggle for world hegemony”. There was no one to fight. It was not even an elephant and Moska, it was an elephant and some kind of flea on the skin of Moska.
    The Bolsheviks at one time were just very lucky (which can not be said about the inhabitants of the USSR) - the Germans started fussing with the Anglo-Saxons for domination in continental Europe. To suppress the Germans, the Anglo-Saxons needed cannon fodder in Europe. Which they purchased from Dzhugashvili.
    Having put 20% (1/5) of the pre-war population of the USSR, the Bolsheviks gained access to German technology and gained German specialists in their hands. Which did to them (the Bolsheviks) everything that they had afterwards (missiles, nuclear weapons, etc.).
    Without all this, the USSR would have bent back in the late 50s. Having briefly outlived its creator (the creator of "Soviet socialism") and the owner.
    Obviously nonviable designs, they die ALWAYS. So it was with the USSR.
    1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
      Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 28 November 2019 15: 06
      +1
      You have an ethnic inferiority syndrome. Large states of world-wide importance do not exist.

      Obviously nonviable designs, they die ALWAYS. So it was with the USSR.

      This non-viable construction survived in the civil war, and grind the strongest army in the world, prevented the United States from turning into the American Empire, squeezing Korea, Cuba, Vietnam and almost all of Asia. Its influence did not allow the British and French empires to recover, while at the same time remaining itself an empire (albeit a socialist one).
      And remember for yourself - as long as you are not an American civil servant, in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo you will only be a client.
      1. tom44 Offline tom44
        tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 15: 34
        -4
        Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
        You have an ethnic inferiority syndrome.

        Or maybe this is your syndrome of false (based on the lies of Sovagitprop) greatness?

        Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
        Large states of world-wide importance do not exist.

        Those. Kazakhstan and Algeria, are these states of global importance?

        Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
        This non-viable design survived in the civil war

        Learn the story, young man. In the years of the massacre organized by the Bolsheviks (they called it the Civil War), the USSR did not even exist.

        Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
        and grind the strongest army in the world

        I almost choked. Whom did the USSR grind there? Is it Reich?
        Are you completely unaware of what is called history? Do you live Soviet tales?

        Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
        prevented the US from becoming an American Empire

        Those. how is it "not given to usa"? What did the USA not give the USSR?
        All that the United States wanted, they got. And they did.

        Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
        squeezing Korea, Cuba, Vietnam and almost all of Asia.

        Did the US want to include Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and Asia? Are you out of your mind? It seems to me that obviously not.

        Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
        By its influence, the British and French empires were not restored

        I almost precipitated. Do you know when and why these empires existed? And why did they fall?
        No, you are clearly inadequate. You are carrying a complete blizzard and a "quick reference guide for the agitator-propagandist of the CPSU district committee.

        Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
        at the same time, he himself remained an empire (albeit a socialist one).

        In fact, the USSR during the period of “Soviet socialism” was a theocratic state (sectarian type, based on the pseudo-religion of Marxism-Leninism), in which the slave-owning mode of production was practiced. Therefore, the "Soviet imperials" (all, including all sorts of marshals and academics) were simply slaves.

        Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
        And remember for yourself - as long as you are not an American civil servant, in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo you will only be a client.

        No, this one is definitely inadequate.
        1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
          Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 28 November 2019 21: 44
          +1
          Quote: tom44
          No, this one is definitely inadequate.

          That is, you are Anglo-Saxon with Irish blood since 1904? Abu Ghraib, Guantanomo, BlackWater - you are admired! Not wow, no, there are only Americans and Papuans-Indians in the world. Which Americans are allowed to shoot for pleasure. And no matter what you think of yourself, it only matters what Sergeant Lindy Ingland thinks of you.
          1. tom444 Offline tom444
            tom444 (tom44) 30 November 2019 09: 16
            -1
            Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
            Abu Ghraib, Guantanomo, BlackWater - you are admired!

            Abu Ghraib, in which province? And Guantanamo?
            Learn to clean your sheds at home first. And only then include hyperopia on glasses.

            Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
            Not wow, no, there are only Americans and Papuans-Indians in the world.

            No, there are friendly Papuans-Indians, but there are hostile ones.
            Whether we want it or not, this is how the modern world works.
            You can, of course, tell each other tales "for multipolarity."
            I even know such "multipolar". One of them, the USSR, collapsed at the end of the last century. And the other, who imagined a lot about himself, was blown away by almost a quarter by the results of 2018. And this is only the beginning, in 2019 the spread of this "multipolar" continued. And now he squeaks, but no one hears and does not want to hear him - as if he himself would not fall under the distribution. If someone does not understand, then this is China, so as not to be confused.

            Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
            And no matter what you think of yourself, it only matters what Sergeant Lindy Ingland thinks of you.

            That's right. The modern world is ruled by the "opinion of the average American." Which is formed by the US elite through the media.
            All other insinuations in this regard, this is either the idiocy of their voicing, or the deliberate manipulation of facts to achieve some of their incomprehensible goals (smoke screen).
            1. plabu Offline plabu
              plabu 30 November 2019 11: 16
              +3
              Quote: tom444
              ... Learn to clean the sheds at home first. And only then include farsightedness on glasses ...

              Have you already cleaned all the sheds in the USA, or where there? If not, then your advice of this kind is of little interest to anyone, although no, I even know one thing when it pulls up, then I will definitely report it)))

              Quote: tom444
              ... No, there are friendly Papuans-Indians, but there are hostile ones. Whether we want it or not, this is how the modern world works. You can, of course, tell each other tales "for multipolarity."
              I even know such "multipolar". One of them, the USSR, collapsed at the end of the last century. And the other, who imagined a lot about himself, was blown away by almost a quarter by the results of 2018. And this is only the beginning, in 2019 the spread of this "multipolar" continued. And now he squeaks, but no one hears and does not want to hear him - as if he himself would not fall under the distribution. If someone does not understand, then this is China, so as not to be confused...

              It was already from you), here is the population of China, after reading your comments, amicably went to drown, wait for the level of world oceans to rise)

              Quote: tom444
              ... The modern world is ruled by the "opinion of the average American." Which is formed by the US elite through the media.
              All other insinuations in this regard, this is either the idiocy of their voicing, or the deliberate manipulation of facts to achieve some of their incomprehensible goals (smoke screen).

              Personally, no one can, and, most importantly, doesn’t want to forbid you to dream about it, but the fact that it has to do with reality is about the same as the statement that “cottage cheese is extracted from dumplings”, and when such “trifles” you embarrassed)))
            2. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
              Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 30 November 2019 14: 41
              +2
              Quote: tom444
              Abu Ghraib, in which province? And Guantanamo?

              So, you live in a region where criminal penalties of up to 50 years for disseminating information that discredits the state are in force. US system. Therefore, Google is not your assistant - it shows how the guards deliver tea to smiling prisoners.
              Therefore, I advise Yandex:

              https://yandex.ru/images/search?

              Democratizers in all its glory.

              Quote: tom444
              No, there are friendly Papuans-Indians, but there are hostile ones.

              There are only one good Papuan Indians - the dead.
              The Mohicans entered into an alliance with the United States, and together with the American army launched a raid on the Iroquois. The campaign was successful, the Iroquois died. The American army, so as not to go twice, killed the Allied Mohicans. And now the northeast of the United States is clear of traces of both the Iroquois and the Mohicans. American blunder!
              As with Iraqi Shiites. They provided assistance to the US Army from 2003 to 2005. And then they asked to return the oil fields of the South to the sovereignty of Iraq - a Shiite prime! And then suddenly ISIS appeared, which, strangely, fought with the Shiites, but did not touch the American army. Under Obama, ISIS became ISIS, and began, in addition to the Shiites, to wet Assad and the Kurds. But not a single shot in the direction of the US Army, Israel, Jordan and Turkey. When Putin intervened, Trump ordered the watering of the IG - Iraqi Indians were no longer needed.
              So, the 44th volume of the Bible of Faith in the USA, you - if you live outside the territory of the North American states - are just unnecessary biological pollution of the planet. 3 million Iraqis have prepared firewood and are waiting for Bush Jr. in hell. There will be no shortage of stokers in his boiler. am
              1. Ravshan Offline Ravshan
                Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 14: 57
                -4
                Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
                ... you live in a region where criminal penalties of up to 50 years for disseminating information discrediting the state are in force. US system.

                And you are a big dreamer.

                Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
                And now the northeast of the United States is clear of traces of both the Iroquois and the Mohicans.

                I am very upset about this. I cry every day.

                Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
                3 million Iraqis have prepared firewood and are waiting for Bush Jr. in hell.

                And for Bush ml I am also very upset.
                Who are you with us?
                Iroquois or Iraqi Shiite? Why are you so alarmed for them?
                1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
                  Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 30 November 2019 18: 39
                  0
                  Nothing bothers me. I already did everything that I and my family needed. House, tree (hundreds of oaks and poplars), son. It is you who are dissatisfied with this world, expect Uncle Sam to come, and weigh all the bad undemocratic (consider - the whole world) lyuley. And somehow your conceit does not include you in a bad non-American world.
      2. Sake Offline Sake
        Sake (Sake) 28 November 2019 20: 09
        +1
        They correctly said that Stalin provoked a civil war on the Korean Peninsula. But what about a hungry paradise in the pressed North and one of the most developed countries - South Korea? What to do with squeezed Cuba, where the paradise island was turned into a poor booth, and who knew what "Russian paradise" is. Written off 30 lard Cuban debt-this is stolen money from the peoples of the USSR! Well, and what benefit did 11 years of butting with the United States in Vietnam bring? And absolutely nothing for the peoples of the USSR, and after the war Vietnam exchanged the USSR / Russia for the USA, that’s such a stew, and Vietnam’s debts were written off and they owe nothing to anyone. All these show-offs on lethargy end with a banal robbery of folk resources!
        1. plabu Offline plabu
          plabu 28 November 2019 20: 32
          +1
          When did you write off the debts of Cuba? And who became the successor of the USSR and in what year? So the rest, well, there you are, including flying by like plywood, this is NOT YOUR long time ago ... also here the peoples wanted to get debts like, shchazz)
          And continue to burn, especially about the fact that we also lit Cuba first and then squeezed it out, it was impressive))))
          1. Sake Offline Sake
            Sake (Sake) 28 November 2019 22: 17
            -1
            Firstly, 29 lards from the 31st were written off by Putin two years ago. Secondly, the Russian Federation is the successor of the RSFSR, but not the USSR. Which of the former Union Republics delegated to the Russian Federation the chair and the place of the USSR in the UN Security Council? Imposter, however.
            1. plabu Offline plabu
              plabu 28 November 2019 22: 23
              0
              You at least tell these your opuses at the UN, no one will laugh there, people are brought up there, but they will think about YOU))))) ....
              And your ignorance of the basics is not interesting to anyone what you think there, or what you personally decided - you are nobody in international politics, so live on with this, even run along the ceiling, and you CAN’t change it ...
              They did not want to take on the debts of the USSR, in any form - now now scratch your chest with a blowtorch)))
              1. Sake Offline Sake
                Sake (Sake) 29 November 2019 12: 55
                -1
                You are a strange type. And who did the debts of the USSR, is it not Moscow? Here is the demand from her! In addition, there were so many USSR assets beyond the hill that it would be enough to cover part of the debts and they flowed smoothly into the pocket of Moscow.
                1. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu 29 November 2019 13: 04
                  -1
                  What am I, I’ll figure it out without your help, but now you’ve already been told everything before, study ...
                  PS When you did these debts, you sat quietly, like a mouse under a broom, but now you’ve become bolder))) Well, you’re cutting the truth, you’re not afraid of anyone - and we’re kind of believing you))) )))
            2. tom44 Offline tom44
              tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 22: 48
              -1
              Quote: Sake
              Secondly, the Russian Federation is the successor of the RSFSR, but not the USSR.

              Still, the USSR.
              But do not confuse the terms "successor" and "heir".

              Quote: Sake
              delegated the chair and the place of the USSR in the UN Security Council?

              In fact, Russia's membership in the UN Security Council is a very difficult issue.
            3. plabu Offline plabu
              plabu 29 November 2019 11: 23
              -1
              And the republic should have asked? ))))) Won't they be so kind -))))) go and learn, it's time to find out at least something for you).
              I would know your address, would send you a New Year's gift under the Christmas tree - a textbook of international law))))))
              1. Sake Offline Sake
                Sake (Sake) 29 November 2019 13: 03
                -3
                The country fell apart (as you know, the fish rots from the head) from dullness, laziness, lies and from the severity of the crimes of Muscovy, there is no need to look for other guilty! You are the same lawyer as the scribbler from Sich who wrote the letter to the Turkish Sultan, and the internationalist from you, like Safronkov at the UN Security Council!
                1. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu 29 November 2019 13: 07
                  0
                  So far, all you know how to do is to be rude, solely because no one will be looking for you)))
                2. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu 29 November 2019 13: 09
                  +1
                  The country fell apart primarily due to the fact that people like you decided that it was time to earn money in an adult way, so you (all) traders and speculators sold it ...
                  1. Sake Offline Sake
                    Sake (Sake) 29 November 2019 20: 17
                    -1
                    Unlike some (they are all around the sun), I have not stolen anything from anyone. Yes, I’m not poor, only this year we collected watermelons and melons from 2000 hectares ... this is a small peak of “communism”, there is processing, there are mills, there is logistics, there is transport, there is real estate ...
                    1. plabu Offline plabu
                      plabu 29 November 2019 22: 55
                      0
                      What are you listing here, what do you have NOW - everything that you have now started once with the fact that you stole from ... it doesn’t matter, of the state, or of someone personally, and the list of those whom you once you can continue the robbery, but why - the main thing is that you and people like you have sold the country ...
                      1. Sake Offline Sake
                        Sake (Sake) 29 November 2019 23: 52
                        -3
                        Your thoughts are typical of a starving man who “dispossessed” prosperous peasants or a “working louse” for whom two cows or as many horses in one yard were considered a crime! Indeed, people do not heal time - it is hereditary or even in genes!
                        As I said, I let that country collapse and I would not lift a finger to defend it! Maxim died, well, to hell with him!
                      2. plabu Offline plabu
                        plabu 30 November 2019 06: 40
                        0
                        Your ideas about my thoughts interest me a little, you have too little knowledge for your opinion to be appreciated at all, but as for your qualities as a “defender,” I already wrote, why should I repeat myself?)
                      3. tom444 Offline tom444
                        tom444 (tom44) 30 November 2019 09: 28
                        -3
                        Quote: Sake
                        thoughts you have a typical starving man

                        I have long written about the "brief methodological manual of the propagandist of the CPSU district committee," which steers this type. Spits on it like a wound.
                        And where did the sectarian of the totalitarian sect of "witnesses of socialism" get his thoughts in his head?

                        Quote: Sake
                        Indeed, people do not heal time - it is hereditary or even in genes!

                        In fact, it is scientifically proven that slavery remains in the genes for about 2 generations after its abolition. The generation is 25 years old. Plus, well-formed 20-year-olds in 1991.
                        Total we receive approximately 2096. Round to 2100
                      4. plabu Offline plabu
                        plabu 30 November 2019 11: 22
                        0
                        Well, the fact that until 2100 few of those present will simply survive and be able to appreciate the whole "depth" of your fabrications - and when was it of interest to you and your colleagues? The main thing for you is to write, i.e. to sketch, but the rest))))
              2. Sake Offline Sake
                Sake (Sake) 29 November 2019 20: 38
                -1
                As for the last point of your whining, I wouldn’t go to defend the fall of the dictatorship commies in the 91st — that’s for sure, but I wouldn’t let my sons and grandchildren defend current criminals in power in the Russian Federation!
                1. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu 29 November 2019 22: 59
                  0
                  It has long been clear that there is no defender from you, no matter what you need to protect, at least a family, at least a state - you cannot ...
                  1. Sake Offline Sake
                    Sake (Sake) 29 November 2019 23: 58
                    -1
                    I didn’t guess, family and state are two different collective farms! The state may or may not even exist (or it may be, but with a different name), and the family is forever! Here you are wrong, as always. There are so many worker-peasant verbal husks in you, you are ready to send the masses to death for the sake of red bullshit, but you yourself will not lie on the embrasure!
                  2. plabu Offline plabu
                    plabu 30 November 2019 06: 41
                    0
                    I already wrote to you, you are not capable of either one or the other, and your ideas about what I am capable of are NOT interesting to me ...
                  3. tom444 Offline tom444
                    tom444 (tom44) 30 November 2019 09: 29
                    -1
                    Quote: Sake
                    There are so many worker-peasant verbal husks in you

                    It is believed that only it is in it.
                  4. plabu Offline plabu
                    plabu 30 November 2019 11: 23
                    0
                    Your opinion is very, very interesting to me))
              3. Sake Offline Sake
                Sake (Sake) 30 November 2019 00: 01
                -1
                You're wrong, I shoot very accurately (from Makar, for example, I can divide the bottle into 4 parts from 40 m) and for myself, I will put down my name!
              4. plabu Offline plabu
                plabu 30 November 2019 06: 50
                0
                And why did you write this, are you a sniper, though not ours ??)))))
                Based on my convictions and Russophobia, I have already given examples to your colleague, you read and read, so brag to your cats for their "achievements", they will be delighted - your "achievements" do not convince me, moreover, they do not bother me, at all ) ..
                And if you didn’t understand before your age that bottle shooting is not the main thing, for what I wrote to you earlier, what to talk with you about, go on, study international law)
              5. tom444 Offline tom444
                tom444 (tom44) 30 November 2019 09: 36
                -1
                Quote: 321
                According to my convictions and Russophobia, I have already given examples to your colleague,

                It seems to mean me.
                However, he does not even know what “Russophobia” and “Anti-Soviet" are.
              6. plabu Offline plabu
                plabu 30 November 2019 10: 22
                0
                You have arrogance - personally try to pass off your conjectures as absolute truth, but you - what the trouble is for people like you (everyone) - you heard a ringing, but you did NOT understand where it was)) - I wrote primarily about shooting at bottles )) of your fellow hobbyist, Russophobia and I deeply care what you (including him) think about it ...
  • Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 28 November 2019 21: 39
    0
    A simple question is why there are no rich countries around the US? Around the USSR / Russia - a bunch, and near the USA - just a scumbag of states?
    The answer is simple - it was dangerous to rob nations near the USSR; they would have entered the orbit of Soviet influence. Therefore, it was allowed Japan and Germany to be not banana-beer republics, but with a developed economy. And the story of Cuba has become a national disgrace for the Americans - instead of a frivolous resort - a hostile INDEPENDENT state.
    True, Trump is now pointing out to Germany-Turkey-Japan their real place: sanctions and billions of fines against the Allies are something new on a global scale.
    1. tom44 Offline tom44
      tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 22: 15
      -1
      Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
      A simple question is why there are no rich countries around the US?

      Have you noticed Canada?

      Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
      Around the USSR / Russia - a bunch

      Where did the bunch come from?
      The country with the richest population of those related to Russia / the USSR is Finland. Starvation by European standards.

      Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
      and near the United States - just a scumbag of states?

      What other flaws? Cuba with Mexico, are these lumps? Until the average Mexican, the average Russian still has to grow and grow. I will not stutter about the Canadians.

      Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
      robbing peoples near the USSR was dangerous; they would have entered the orbit of Soviet influence.

      That's nonsense. Yes, the USSR itself robbed all those whom the Bolshevik hands reached. And above all, the population of the USSR itself.

      Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
      And the story of Cuba has become a national disgrace for the Americans - instead of a frivolous resort - a hostile INDEPENDENT state.

      Americans do not care about the hostility of Cuba. She doesn’t exist at all, this Cuba. Because of the absolute nullity of this "huge state".
      As for the Americans, in the Caribbean, there are enough islands for them to relax.
    2. Sake Offline Sake
      Sake (Sake) 29 November 2019 20: 56
      0
      What poisoned consciousness this Oy has ... or rather, only the cerebellum remained from consciousness there, the rest is drunk and smoked. It was the USSR that plundered peoples, all plowed, mined, riveted for 1,20 rubles. per hour, but from Moscow they gave away everything to savages and cannibals! And if Putin wrote off debts to the blackened brothers for 20 lard yesterday, then last year he gave out 160 lard as much — is this not a robbery of the century ?! He can give away or write off from his pocket, but he has no right to rob the people!
      WITH INDEPENDENCE Cuba is the shortest joke! The USSR plunged the Cubans in such a ... from which they cannot recover until now. The country is an island where the sun shines year-round and the average annual temperature is above 26 ° C, where you can grow three crops a year, and they went hungry ?! Here he is a Russian paradise in life - it is to turn a self-sufficient country - the people into the poor, we must be able to, and we can!
      And yet, those who after the war ended up in the zone of influence of the USSR, all of them became poor and unhappy, those countries and peoples that were influenced by the USA became the most highly developed and richest countries - Japan, Germany, South Korea! Here and count horseradish to the nose (this is not abusive, horseradish is a useful plant)!
  • Sake Offline Sake
    Sake (Sake) 28 November 2019 19: 40
    -1
    I agree with you completely! The USSR could exist - it’s 69 years only on fear and on a mobilization economy, as soon as there was no fear, everything began to crumble, and when this leper colony was also opened, everything fell apart at a fantastic speed. For a long time everything has been known that if a country rests on bayonets, it has no chance of becoming a long-liver.
    1. tom44 Offline tom44
      tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 20: 10
      0
      Quote: Sake
      For a long time everything has been known that if a country rests on bayonets, it has no chance of becoming a long-liver.

      The USSR rested not only on bayonets, but also on scoundrels and fools. There were fewer scoundrels, more fools. But this does not change the essence of the matter.
      The USSR, if desired by Dzhugashvili (he could have built "Soviet socialism" somewhat differently, as Kim had built it in North Korea), could have existed for as long as desired. They would only have to eat each other periodically, as during the years of war, “industrialization” and “collectivization”. But if Dzhugashvili wanted, “socialism” in the USSR could still draw juices from people to this day.
      1. Sake Offline Sake
        Sake (Sake) 28 November 2019 20: 20
        0
        But, as you know, even the most bloodthirsty dictators are mortal! After the dictator, a new team arrives, and if it is not as bloodthirsty as the previous one, it starts to release nuts, which is what happened with us. Well, and then, as I already wrote, along with the loss of fear, the realization comes that the system is a dead-born child, followed by the collapse of the system and the country. In normal countries, a change of power is a completely normal process and this change of elites does not play any role in the daily life of the state, the system works even without a government (in Belgium somehow there was no government for more than a year, in Germany for almost 6 months, etc. .) and these events did not cause a crisis in these countries.
        1. tom44 Offline tom44
          tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 21: 10
          0
          Quote: Sake
          After the dictator, a new team arrives and if it is not as bloodthirsty as the previous one, it starts to release nuts, which is what happened with us.

          Not certainly in that way.
          After the death of Dzhugashvili, high-ranking slaves rebelled and threw off the throne of a new patrician, Khrushchev. And since no one trusted each other in this serpentarium, they decided to increase the number of slave owners in the USSR. Calling them "members of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee." And it was the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, and not the Secretary General of the CPSU alone, who ruled (and owned) the country since then.
          This led to irresponsibility and inconsistency when the right leg did not know what the left hand wants. The Chinese version of collective leadership, when members of the CCP Politburo rule for a limited time, but alone, looks more preferable.
          However, in China, this version of government has already been canceled in favor of Xi's sole government.

          Quote: Sake
          along with the loss of fear, comes the realization that the system is a stillborn child, followed by the collapse of the system and the country.

          This is called the "ripening of internal premises." In fact, all these processes are described by political economy and social studies.

          Quote: Sake
          In normal countries ...

          In highly developed countries. But to achieve this level of development of society and the state, a huge amount of time must pass on the post-Soviet ruins. The Bolsheviks drove Russia almost in the Middle Ages. And the way back to civilization is a very long way.
  • Sake Offline Sake
    Sake (Sake) 28 November 2019 19: 55
    -1
    I agree with you completely!
  • Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 28 November 2019 14: 50
    -1
    If the USSR were intact, now we would have neither the Internet, nor mobile phones; cars would still be waiting in lines of 7-10 years. Music would be played on cassette recorders. Secretary General Mamlyuk Babayev would sit in the Kremlin. No roads, no gas in the villages.
    So the 1989th year would have remained mothballed ...
    1. Sake Offline Sake
      Sake (Sake) 28 November 2019 19: 42
      -5
      I have said more than once that in the USSR there was only sexual intercourse, there was no other. Who else remembers the call points and alyo .. alyo ...
      1. plabu Offline plabu
        plabu 28 November 2019 20: 37
        0
        And who produced you this way, well, at least you could find out something, for example, who, when and where came up with what is now called mobile communications ... learn the equipment ...
        1. Sake Offline Sake
          Sake (Sake) 28 November 2019 22: 23
          -2
          Now tell us a fairy tale about how Popov (or Petrov and Bashirov ...) invented / did mobile communication, but, as usual, it was classified and still has not been declassified.
          1. plabu Offline plabu
            plabu 28 November 2019 22: 28
            0
            not small, you will find it yourself, you haven’t earned a servant yet, and now education is already paid for you))
  • Citizen Mѣshkov (Sergѣi) 30 November 2019 02: 36
    -1
    It’s better to tell what the Russian Empire would be like before liberals and communards destroyed it.
    1. tom444 Offline tom444
      tom444 (tom44) 30 November 2019 09: 43
      -2
      Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
      It’s better to tell what the Russian Empire would be like before liberals and communards destroyed it.

      The Russian Empire was destroyed by Mikhail Romanov. This idiot in a country waging a major war came up with the idiotic idea of ​​playing a revolutionary. He played it, transferring power in the country to the Constituent Assembly, and before it was convened, to the Provisional Government. As a result, the country simply died. She just ceased to exist. Forever and ever.
      The USSR had nothing to do with Russia (which the Bolsheviks have repeatedly declared and actually rigidly implemented). Therefore, the Russian Federation, in fact, the mental heiress of the USSR, although officially only its successor, is a very young state. He is only a little over 100 years old. Childhood.
      1. Citizen Mѣshkov (Sergѣi) 30 November 2019 23: 31
        +4
        I do not agree with your statement. Firstly, the state has already witnessed an anti-monarchist coup, and such coups are not organized in order to bring the next monarch to power. Secondly, Mikhail Alexandrovich at that time did not have the right to the throne, since at a certain time he violated the Law on succession to the throne, secretly marrying in an organic marriage. Thirdly, unfortunately, we do not know all the circumstances of that time, painfully confused and contradictory memories left us with witnesses who themselves were involved in this. One thing can be assured with certainty - there was no voluntary renunciation! After all, signed documents under pressure are illegal!
        1. Ravshan Offline Ravshan
          Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 23: 58
          -5
          Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
          Firstly, the empire has already experienced a state anti-monarchist coup.

          What kind of an anti-monarchist coup is it if the power was transferred by Nicholas, who was persuaded to abandon the throne, to the new autocrat, Mikhail?
          What was anti-monarchical about this?

          Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
          ... and such coups are not organized in order to bring the next monarch to power.

          May be. But in this case, there was no anti-monarchist coup.
          The revolution in Russia, but a bourgeois revolution took place, in the most literal sense of the word, was not done by the Duma.
          Not the Bolsheviks.
          And not even the Germans.
          For some unknown reason, the revolution in Russia was made by Mikhail Romanov, having abandoned the throne and transferred power to the Constituent Assembly, and before it was convened, to the Provisional Government.
          Revolutionary figs, who really doesn’t mind that the Bolsheviks spanked.
          Although, about the "non-Germans" it is not entirely correct, Mikhail Romanov, like all the Romanovs after Peter 3 (and this is still the middle of the 18th century), was German.

          Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
          Mikhail Alexandrovich at that time did not have the right to the throne, since at a certain time he had violated the Law on Succession Successfully secretly marrying in an organic marriage.

          The laws were established by the autocrat Nikolai 2. He deprived Mikhail of his right to the throne. He gave him the throne a little later. He had the right to do so, since he was "the owner of the Russian land."

          Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
          painfully confused and contradictory memories left us witnesses who themselves were involved in this.

          Why do we need evidence?
          There are historical facts. It is necessary to rely on them.

          Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
          One thing can be assured with certainty - there was no voluntary renunciation! After all, signed documents under pressure are illegal!

          Palace coups, and in the case of Nicholas 2, we are dealing with just such, they are generally ALWAYS illegal.
          Yes, and other coups are also questionable in terms of legitimacy.
          Yes, and the revolution is also the same.
          But the winners are not judged.
          1. Citizen Mѣshkov (Sergѣi) 1 December 2019 01: 39
            +4
            I will answer briefly.
            The coup was precisely anti-monarchist, since everyone (from the Duma to the Bolsheviks) demanded the creation of a republic. This is an indisputable fact.
            Mikhail Alexandrovich did not transfer power to the Constituent Assembly, but according to the manifesto announced his intention to create a Constituent Assembly, so that it would choose a form of government. Not forgetting that the coup has already taken place, and this manifesto is only a futile attempt to legitimize, in order to avoid a civil war. But the madman Kerensky neglected this last hope by announcing the creation of a republic.
            Nicholas II, although he was Emperor, but without amending the Basic Laws of the Russian Empire, any actions were illegal. In addition, the question of morganism remained open. And the transfer of the throne could be challenged.
            What evidence and historical facts are you talking about? Is it not about those that are based on the testimony of eyewitnesses to revolutionary events. After all, I wrote about this above that they are confusing and contradictory.
            1. Ravshan Offline Ravshan
              Ravshan (Jamsut) 1 December 2019 02: 08
              -5
              Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
              The coup was precisely anti-monarchist, since everyone (from the Duma to the Bolsheviks) demanded the creation of a republic.

              Who knows what?
              It is important what happened. And there was a transfer of power from one Romanov to another. Within the existing system (autocracy). Given the not entirely voluntary decision of Nicholas, you can still agree to the palace coup. But not more.
              And it was precisely Mikhail who began to marry further, but not Nikolai at all.

              Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
              Mikhail Alexandrovich did not transfer power to the Constituent Assembly, but according to the manifesto, he announced his intention to create a Constituent Assembly so that it would choose a form of government.

              It was he who transferred power to the convened Constituent Assembly. And temporarily, before its convocation, to the Provisional Government.

              Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
              Not forgetting that the coup has already taken place,

              If a coup had already taken place, then he would not have passed anything to anyone. There would be nothing.

              Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
              and this manifesto is only a futile attempt at legitimization in order to avoid a civil war.

              What kind of war? Between whom and by whom?

              Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
              But the madman Kerensky neglected this last hope by announcing the creation of a republic.

              Kerensky could declare anything. The decision on this score was to be taken by the Constituent Assembly. Although there was no doubt about that, it would also declare a Republic.

              Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
              And the transfer of the throne could be challenged.

              We could. But there was no need. Michael actually abandoned the throne. Those. the throne was gone and there was nothing to dispute.

              Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
              Is it not about those that are based on the testimony of eyewitnesses to revolutionary events.

              Of course not. On Wiki lies a copy of the manifesto of Mikhail, you can easily read it. This is an indisputable historical fact.
              1. Citizen Mѣshkov (Sergѣi) 1 December 2019 04: 30
                +4
                Well, you have the knowledge.
                In fact, the coup took place on February 27, 1917. The legitimate imperial government was overthrown, and the self-proclaimed Provisional Committee of the State Duma was formed in its place, usurping power in the country. On March 1, the Petrograd Soviet of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies is formed, which takes over the authority of the All-Russian authority. In fact, these two revolutionary formations, with general agreement, could do without the abdication of the emperor, just as it happened in Germany. But there is no agreement between them, and the Duma leaders were the first to seek the abdication of the deposed emperor in an even attempt to legitimize their Provisional Government. All. The coup has occurred. Then comes the struggle for power, which ultimately leads to a civil war.
                1. Ravshan Offline Ravshan
                  Ravshan (Jamsut) 1 December 2019 12: 15
                  -5
                  Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
                  Well, you have the knowledge.

                  Yes, there really is knowledge.

                  Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
                  In fact, the coup took place on February 27, 1917.

                  I already wrote to you, the maximum that you can recognize those actions is a palace coup. And no more.

                  Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
                  The legitimate imperial government was overthrown, and the self-proclaimed Provisional Committee of the State Duma was formed in its place, usurping power in the country.

                  It is not true.
                  The government remained in place.
                  And power was transferred to the next autocrat, Mikhail.
                  Which already later, in March, made the bourgeois revolution in Russia.
                  You in vain ignore historical facts, trying to tell me fairy tales.

                  Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
                  On March 1, the Petrograd Soviet of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies is formed, which takes over the authority of the All-Russian authority.

                  He could take anything on himself. But who was giving him something?
                  It was an empty talking room that only "adopted resolutions."

                  Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
                  In fact, these two revolutionary formations.

                  What other "revolutionary formations"?
                  The interim government was an absolutely legitimate transitional authority. It was to him that Mikhail transferred the functions of governing the state until the start of the functioning of the Constituent Assembly.
                  The "Petrograd Soviet" was an empty talking room for the outcasts. About which no one knew and no one would ever know if not for Leib Bronstein and the actions in October 1917

                  Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
                  and Duma leaders were the first to seek the abdication of the deposed emperor in a futile attempt to legitimize their Provisional Government.

                  Once again. Nicholas transferred power to another autocrat.
                  Will you finally understand this? OTHER SAMODERZHTSU, his brother, Michael.
                  SELF-SUPPORT in February did not hurt. Do you understand this?
                  The interim government received power (for the transitional period) only in March 1917 from the hands of Mikhail, but not Nikolai.
                  You somehow don’t even know basic things, and when you are explained to them, you cannot understand.

                  Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
                  All. The coup has occurred.

                  Only in your imagination and with the help of your juggling facts.

                  Quote: Citizen Mѣshkov
                  Then comes the struggle for power, which ultimately leads to a civil war.

                  A creeping armed seizure of power by them in October 1917, January 1918 led to the massacre organized by the Bolsheviks. After they dispersed the Constituent Assembly, the masks were dropped and the healthy forces of society entered the battle against the usurpers. But then there were few healthy forces of society in Russia. Russian volunteer army - Russians. Petliurists are Ukrainians. Some national forces in Transcaucasia (Dashnaks, etc.).
                  The same is in Central Asia (basmachi).
                  The Cossacks held steady, but there were few of them, and for this they were later completely eliminated as a people.
                  The Finns and the Balts immediately declared that they were not interested in Russian affairs.
                  As a result, the marginals (Bolsheviks) defeated and captured the country (occupied).
  • DPN Offline DPN
    DPN (DPN) April 7 2020 15: 51
    +1
    The Chinese correctly described, and if you were lucky with a normal person - the Leader, the USA would have come a big Arctic fox!