Spanish war of the USSR: how Russians found themselves on both sides of the barricades

The recent reburial of the remains of dictator Francisco Franco is a worthy occasion to recall the civil war that took place in Spain from 1936 to 1939. Indeed, hundreds of our compatriots valiantly fought on its fields, it was there that for the first time clashed in an open battle with the “brown plague”. However, the truth about the participation of the USSR in Spanish events, like the vast majority of his great deeds of the 30s, today is not only obscured by a huge number of reinforced concrete stamps, reality often corresponding to the least extent, but also mercilessly distorted in some ways.




What really happened under the "cloudless" sky of Seville and Grenada in those legendary days? Against whom and for what did our great-grandfathers fight there? Why did the Soviet Union intervene in this conflict and what did it lead to subsequently?

Encyclopedia of Delusions


In this article, I do not intend to examine in detail the causes and course of the Spanish Civil War. Let the local researchers and historians do this. We will talk about the many myths and misconceptions regarding this event that have accumulated in our country, which, believe me, can really be gathered up for a whole encyclopedia. Of course, we need to start with the fact that the vast majority of our fellow citizens (of those who generally know something about the Spanish conflict of the 30s) are sacredly convinced: on the one hand, some abstract republicans (that is, " good ”), and the fascists who rebelled against them, led by the ominous Franco. Progressive people and communists from around the world (including our country) fought for the Republicans in the ranks of the famous "inter-brigades", and Nazis Germany supported Nazis in company with fascist Italy. To say about such a perception that it is incomplete and schematic is to say nothing. In fact, everything was much more complicated, confusing and multifaceted. First of all, this concerns the real composition of the warring camps. Republicans were represented very motley political by the company - from left and right liberals (who, in fact, through their careless, inconsistent and half-hearted rule and brought the country to a pen, that is, to a military coup), to socialists and communists. As well as the Trotskyists and anarchists. We will have a separate discussion about what exactly this audience was like, but for now we will continue.

It would also be completely wrong to call everyone who fought against the Spanish Republic completely fascists. In the ranks of its opponents, in addition to representatives of the truly fascist "Phalanx", there were plenty, for example, monarchists or those who categorically did not like the attack launched by the left government on the Catholic Church. Do you know, when in 1936 in Madrid, after rumors were spread by some unknown person that “churchmen are feeding poisoned sweets to the children of workers,” local proletarians began to massacre priests and monks. In a country that for a long time was a stronghold of European Catholicism, many experienced a shock that turned into hatred of the authorities that had failed to prevent and stop this massacre. We should not forget about those who were against the conducted by the Republicans economic and social reforms - landlords who were deprived of their land, industrialists and merchants who lost everything they acquired, and other "exploiters of the working people" who were subjected to expropriation. Well, and, of course, about the military, in fact, and who became the main driving force behind the rebellion, as well as the war that followed. These were firmly convinced that only they knew how to arrange Spain - in an army manner, so that no one would dare to utter a word! The 1936 mutiny was far from the first coup staged by the local stripe-mongers. And, by the way, Francisco Franco became the head of the putschists only a couple of months after the events began. This is true, by the way. Let's add to all that has been said also the separatists there, like the Catalans and the Basques (who are not appeasing to this day), who fiercely fought solely for their own, only understandable to them, goals ... And what do we get? Quite right - absolute bedlam and total hell, into which Spain plunged for three whole years.

Condor vs. Interbrigades


Now for international support. Formally, no one intervened in the civil conflict. And in fact? Well, here, as usual, everything was exactly the opposite. The League of Nations, then the counterpart of the current UN (only perhaps a hundred times more infamous), quickly set up a "Committee of Non-Interference in Spanish Affairs" and washed its hands. This, however, did not hinder at all from providing massive financial and, above all, military assistance to the putschists of the Third Reich, Italy and Portugal. Britain and France, together with all the other members of the "world community", pretended that nothing like this was happening. The Americans acted as usual - they adopted the "neutrality law", the Republicans were not sold a single cartridge (although there were corresponding contracts), but the whole war provided the Francoists with fuel and transport. The French generally acted in the most vile manner - first they foiled the arms deliveries promised to the Republic, and then completely imposed a complete embargo on them. In the form of handouts, several planes lounging in the air were sent to Spain, and even without weapons. Interestingly, these cattle remembered their own filth when the Wehrmacht marched through the streets of Paris ?! However, I was distracted. The actions of the "European democracies" with respect to Spain have clearly demonstrated: they will support the most outspoken fascist regimes, at least by untying their hands, exactly as long as they slaughter the communists. There is no doubt that it was precisely in 1936 in Moscow that they completely understood this and since then they did not believe London or Paris a penny.


To stop the “brown plague” that was rolling on the world was real only under the red flag. And precisely for this reason, the Soviet Union could not remain aloof from the Spanish war. The USSR was the only country in the world that provided the Republic with real help and support. Inter-brigades, speak? The ones in which not only the French and Poles fought the putschists (who would have thought!), But even the Austrians, Italians and Germans? It was so. But let's turn to impartial figures. Speaking of about 30 thousand foreign fighters of international brigades (for all the years of the war), some historians bashfully remain silent about 6 thousand deserters and those who were shot by their own comrades-in-arms. The fifth part ... And also that already by 1937, 90% of the personnel of the inter-brigades were Spaniards themselves. The vast majority of volunteers who came to this war for “revolutionary romance” could not stand in its heat for more than 3-4 months, six months at most. For comparison, Germany, which sent the Condor aviation corps of more than 5 people to Spain, added five more warriors to the army of putschists five times as many - 50 in total. Delivered aviation, artillery, tanks, communications. Italy did participate on the side of the Frankists with strengths of 150-200 thousand bayonets. Again, supplying them with airplanes, guns, wedges and all the rest. Even the Portuguese fought against the Republic, at least 20 thousand. From 2 to 4 (according to various sources) thousands of Soviet "military experts" against this background look, it seems, modestly. But only at first glance…

¡No pasarán! in Russian


Pilots and tankers, sailors and gunners - all in Spain, according to reports, fought, as already mentioned, thousands of Soviet troops sent there by Moscow. On a voluntary basis, of course, our people considered going “to beat the fascists” as a high honor that still needed to be earned. The best of the best were selected. The main thing, however, was not this. About 650 combat aircraft, about 350 tanks, torpedo boats, fifteen hundred artillery and mortar barrels, hundreds of thousands of small arms, tons of ammunition, medicine and food, a loan of 85 million dollars - all this the Republic received from the USSR. It was Soviet military aid that helped thwart the fall offensive of the Franco on Madrid in 1936. The deliveries, which were carried out by specialists from the Foreign Department of the NKVD and the Intelligence Service of the Red Army, were carried out by sea, and three of our ships were sunk by Italian submarines. Dozens of ships were detained. Nevertheless, the help, without which the collapse of the Republicans would have come much earlier, came in a flood. And this despite the fact that the Soviet Union in those years itself lived, to put it mildly, not luxuriously. Industrialization was barely completed in the country; the deployment of industry, including the military, formation and strengthening of the army was still in progress. Each cartridge, each rifle (not to mention tanks and fighters) was literally torn off from its own combat power, which could be tested for strength by the enemies of the Soviet Union at any moment. And, nevertheless, today there are clever people trying to argue that the USSR and Stalin personally “did too little” for the Republic, or even “betrayed” it. Here with this nonsense should be dealt with in detail and in detail. Yes, initially Joseph Vissarionovich did not want to interfere in this conflict at all. Why? Yes, because I tried to get from the West every extra year, month, day, to strengthen the power of the country and the army before the great war.


Do not forget that by that time the main, perhaps, threat to the Soviet Union was not Nazi Germany, whose eagle had barely “operated” and was growing deadly claws, and imperial Japan, which had already come close to the borders of the USSR, and had quite specific plans. Samurai climbed two or three years later. Yes, they got it in the teeth, but it was precisely because we were preparing. To get involved in a European swara The leader did not see the point. And only when, as was said above, the same Britain and France very clearly indicated their intentions to support fascism and set it against the “Reds", Stalin decided to fight. At the same time, it seems to me that the desire not only to test the new military in battles played an important role machinery, but also to see what our pilots and tankers are facing in their case against their future opponents. The fact that Joseph Vissarionovich already saw the clash with the Third Reich, I have no doubt for a second. Some people reproach the USSR for the fact that help was supposedly “not entirely disinterested”. They remind of the gold reserves of Spain exported to our country and the like. Well, excuse me ... Joseph Vissarionovich was not engaged in bad charity. He was not inclined to such, and could not, if he wanted to. As I said, Moscow then had every ruble counted. Nobody built a single factory for us, did not put a single machine. Only for currency. We just did what we could. Armed, fought, saved Spanish children. About 3 and a half thousand small republicans were taken to the Soviet Union. And they didn’t just take them out - they created special orphanages for them, where, according to the recollections, the feeding was three times more satisfying than in the “ordinary” ones. Some of the liberal "researchers" are terrified: during the Great Patriotic War, the grown up Spanish immigrants were "driven to the front", where about five hundred of them died heroically. Or maybe they didn’t drive? Maybe it’s just that the children of the heroes of Madrid and Barcelona did not die of honor and gratitude ?!

Trotskyite Front of Spain


Here we come to the most, perhaps, the most mysterious aspect of Soviet participation in Spanish events. And to the most slandered, as usual. It is about confronting our aces of the “invisible war” not only to the Franco and Nazi Abwera, who felt at home in their camp, but also, from a certain moment, entrenched in the republic of Spain to the Trotskyists. Let me remind you that “with respect to the Stalinist USSR, a peaceful solution is impossible”, Lev Davidovich, expelled from sin far from our country, declared back in 1933. Since then, his supporters, both in the Soviet Union and beyond, began to prepare the most real conspiracies with the aim of carrying out a coup. However, realizing that they might not have enough of their own strength to seize power in the USSR, these bastards were preparing alternatives. In short, they can be reduced to the intentions of drawing our country into an armed conflict with Germany or Japan (or better, with both at once!) And ensuring military defeat, again, to take power into their own hands. No, exclusively for the subsequent device of the "world revolution", if you suddenly thought something else! What would end up in reality, a similar scenario for our country, I think, no need to explain. And, nevertheless, there were enough people who wanted to bring it to life at that time. Hence the large-scale lawsuits of 1936-1937, the tough “purges” in the Red Army, the NKVD and the parties that took place in those same years. One of the fronts of the mortal struggle against Trotskyism was Spain. “Stalin’s saboteur No. 1” Pavel Sudoplatov speaks rather sparingly in his memoirs about this period, but he directly indicates that this country has become a “training ground” for the NKVD and an excellent training school.

The whole point here is that, being, at first glance, almost the most “red” of the Republicans, the Trotskyists and their allies, like the anarchists in Spain, most often acted just in the hands of the Francoists. I, it seems, promised to dwell in more detail on the characterization of these comrades? Perhaps the best illustration of their activity is archival photographs of the crushed churches, from which relics (including relics) were thrown onto the streets. As well as pictures of smiling guys posing with hammers in one hand, and in the other with broken heads of statues depicting saints. What reaction do you think caused the peasants brought up in the severe Catholic spirit? But if only the statues had been acted in this way! The bloody terror of the putschists, who shot and hanged their opponents indiscriminately, who wiped entire cities with bombs from the face of the earth, has been written and said a lot. The atrocities committed by the anarchists or Trotskyists from the POUM (Spanish Workers' Party of Marxist Unity) are remembered much less often. But they also put against the wall, without ceremony, the same priests and other "kontrik". But that is not all! With their idiotic agitation, which was based on the thesis that “the victory of the world revolution is more important than the victory over fascism in Spain alone” (Trotsky’s phrase), they decomposed entire military units of the Republic, which were not yet brilliant with discipline. They made a bloody mess in Barcelona, ​​as a result of which the Republicans fought with the Republicans. It cost hundreds of people killed and a foiled attack on the Franco at a strategically most important moment. There are a great many such examples. It all ended up that our NKVD had to liquidate the POUM.



Russians on both sides of the barricades


By the way, it was after Spain that a significant blow was inflicted on another extremely dangerous anti-Soviet organization - the Russian Allied Arms Union. There, with the beginning of this war, they didn’t just stir - they jumped with joy, anticipating a “world crusade against communism”. Well, they jumped ... In September 1937, the NKVD’s disaster agents managed to snatch the head of the ROVS, General Yevgeny Miller, almost from the steps of the organization’s headquarters in Paris and take them to Moscow. Well, shot, of course. So, it’s not even for the White Guard past, but because this figure began to actively seek contacts with representatives of the Wehrmacht and Abwehr. Well, was he awarded the order for such movements? After these events, the ROVS did not break up, but significantly lost ground. As soon as it turned out that the former commander of the Kornilov division, General Nikolai Skoblin, who had actually surrendered Miller to the NKVD, had already been working for Soviet intelligence for a long time, there was utter discord and confusion. Thus, another problem of the USSR was solved. However, to the credit of the white emigrants, it should be noted that on the side of the Republic, they were still fighting more against the fascists in Spain. Than for Franco - about five hundred people. From fifty later they were able to fulfill their cherished desire - to return to the Soviet Union as full citizens. The most interesting thing is that the captain of the army of the Republic was the son of the worst enemy of Soviet power - Boris Savinkov. As far as I know, he fought with dignity ... There were others - those who were called “Rosso Bianca”, or “White Russians”. They came under the banner of Franco, in their hatred of the "Reds", being ready to accept even the Nazis. According to various estimates, there were up to hundreds of such people. After the putschists won the military parade that they organized, they marched through the streets of Madrid in a separate formation under the Russian imperial banner.

The Spanish war really became a great test for many people and things, a huge school for the army and special services of the USSR. Its consequences, mostly hidden from us, have yet to be studied and studied. There is no doubt - Trotsky's death sentence was passed after Spain. In particular, after the tombs of the Trotskyites with Abwehr and other similar offices of the Third Reich began to open during the war there. Subsequently, it was Lev Davidovich’s supporters who would surrender the Gestapo to the French Communists in Paris occupied by the Germans, who supported the USSR ... Perhaps the main aspect in this situation was the fact that for Stalin the necessity of defeating the “fifth column” became clear (this definition, which later became winged, first sounded just in the days of the assault of Madrid in 1936) not during the war, when it was too late to do this, but ahead of time. Which was done by him, however, alas, not to the end. It was after Spain, where the defeat of the Republic was largely due to lack of discipline, unity of command, which reigned in the country as a political discord, Stalin at times tightened demand from "responsible" and "high-ranking", rethought and strengthened the work of special services. The main conclusion from these events for him, of course, was the thesis that a great war was inevitable for the USSR. And that it will be necessary to lead it, most likely, against the entire “Western world”, or at least most of its constituent states. In the future, the actions of the leadership of our country were dictated by the lessons learned in Spain.
45 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.
I have an account? Sign in
  1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 26 October 2019 09: 49
    -2
    Nothing good if the Republicans won, most likely it would not have happened. They fought and destroyed each other even then, and what would happen if they won? Rather, the worst version of the Stalinist Union, with devastation, hunger, the Gulag and all its inherent attributes. Moreover, the "teachers" from the Union there were appropriate and abundant.
    1. Kuzmitsky Offline Kuzmitsky
      Kuzmitsky (Sergei) 26 October 2019 16: 16
      +1
      Of course, the Republican camp was too colorful. After their victory, the civil war would probably have continued, but the winners would have fought among themselves. It would hardly have come to the Gulag, unless, if in the end, the Trotskyists won. In addition, in the event of a Republican victory, the country would probably be occupied by Germany and Italy.

      But all this did not happen, because it could not happen. Strength was on the side of the Francoists, and their victory was a matter of time. Yes, and without the support of the clergy in a Catholic country, you will not go far.
      1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 26 October 2019 16: 54
        -2
        For the most part I agree, only in the Union the Gulag was not organized by the Trotskyists.
        1. Sake Offline Sake
          Sake (Sake) 9 November 2019 09: 20
          -1
          Under Trotsky, the first concentration camps were created around the age of 20 or 22.
          1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
            Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 9 November 2019 10: 06
            -2
            So under Trotsky, or Lenin?

            On August 9, 1918, Lenin wrote in a telegram to the Penza Provincial Executive Committee and Evgenia Bosch: “It is necessary to organize enhanced security from selectively reliable people, to conduct merciless mass terror against the kulaks, priests and White Guards; those who are doubtful should be locked up in a concentration camp outside the city ”(50, 143–144).

            Although, of course, there is one gang-watering can, but can it compare with the Stalinist Gulag?
            1. Sake Offline Sake
              Sake (Sake) 9 November 2019 10: 34
              -2
              Under Stalin, the destruction of peoples took on an industrial character. The NKVD and the courts seized the people, and the GULAG used these masses of the people as slaves at all kinds of construction sites, where death from hunger, disease and cold was considered "natural loss." That was such a bloody statistic.
              1. Ravshan Offline Ravshan
                Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 19: 28
                -3
                Quote: Sake
                And the Gulag used these masses of people as slaves in all kinds of construction sites.

                It was a kind of "strict regime" for Soviet slaves. The life of slaves in the USSR "free" was not much better than in the Gulag.
          2. Ravshan Offline Ravshan
            Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 19: 24
            -2
            Quote: Sake
            Under Trotsky, the first concentration camps were created around the age of 20 or 22.

            This is called "under Ulyanov". There was never a time when something was "under Trotsky" in the USSR (except for a short period of the October coup itself, which was carried out under the leadership of Trotsky, and a short period after him). Usually, when the Bolsheviks (Dzhugashvili's renovationists) wanted to scold the "old Bolsheviks" (these are different Bolsheviks), they mentioned Trotsky, calling the "old Bolsheviks" Trotskyists. Although they were Leninists. But Ulyanov was a sacred cow, so a rigging with Trotsky was used.
    2. Sake Offline Sake
      Sake (Sake) 8 November 2019 20: 15
      -3
      Indeed, they would later realize that they fought on the wrong side, if the Reds defeated and the NKVD began a full-fledged sweep of the "hostile" classes and those who do not sensually show love for the native party of "workers and peasants" or their de obreros y campesinos, but in general, they were lucky then that they defeated the red plague! In addition to the fact that Stalin's falcons, tankers, artillerymen and other "internationalists" (then this parody also overtook the Afghans), the knights commandeered 510 tons of Spanish gold reserves without fear or reproach! This is how the Soviet warriors made friends, to have such friends, no need to have enemies!
      1. plabu Offline plabu
        plabu 10 November 2019 08: 43
        0
        Whoever wrote about the "warrior"))) an Internet warrior, knowledge is close to zero, but ambition ...
        but about gold everything has been written for a long time, learn the materiel)
      2. Ravshan Offline Ravshan
        Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 19: 30
        -3
        Quote: Sake
        In addition to the fact that Stalin's falcons, tankers, artillerymen and other "internationalists"

        Today, such figures in the world are called terrorists and mercenaries. And the laws of many countries to such are very strict.
    3. Ravshan Offline Ravshan
      Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 19: 26
      -4
      Quote: Arkharov
      Nothing good, if the Republicans had won, most likely would not have been.

      The Spaniards were just lucky with Franco. Approximately the same as Chileans with Pinochet.
      Without their victory, these countries would have left about the same tattered rags that remained from Russia after the death of the USSR.
  2. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 27 October 2019 11: 10
    0
    - The author forgot to mention the Moroccans who participated in the war on the side of Franco ...- And quite effectively ...
    - The scoundrel Franco simply "handed over" his proud and independent Spanish women ... - Spanish generals and officers simply turned a blind eye to the mass rapes of Spanish women by these savages ... - well, to the robbery of their own civilian population ...
    1. Sake Offline Sake
      Sake (Sake) 8 November 2019 20: 17
      -2
      What a misfortune, the Soviet warriors got spoiled ladies after the Moroccans .... Morocco, for example, is located 6 km from Spain and was a colony of Spain, and the USSR 5000 km. There is a difference?
      1. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
        gorenina91 (Irina) 9 November 2019 03: 06
        +1
        - Why are you grinding ??? - Which USSR ???
        - Moroccans ganged (raped and robbed) in Spain, during the civil war ... on the side of Franco against the Republicans ...
        1. Sake Offline Sake
          Sake (Sake) 9 November 2019 09: 18
          -4
          And what were the Soviet troops doing there at the same time? They bombed cities and villages in Spain, robbed and killed for the sake of power "workers and peasants" - this is for fools, but in fact for power in Spain. Well, they used senoritas, like the Moroccans! In war, all disgusting occurs on both sides of the front!
          1. plabu Offline plabu
            plabu 9 November 2019 09: 42
            0
            Learn the materiel, your fabrications have little in common with reality ... robbed, raped)) nu-nu ...
            And your nonsense about 510 tons of gold "stolen" and do not try to tell)
            1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
              Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 9 November 2019 10: 11
              -2
              A universally recognized historical fact, a huge number of sources.

              The decision to send gold to the USSR was made by the leaders of the Spanish Republican government - Prime Minister Francisco Largo Caballero and Finance Minister Juan Lopez Negrin in October 1936.

              Protocol No. 44 of the meeting of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks was preserved, from which it follows that

              The USSR "agreed to accept the gold reserve for storage" - as if in response to a request from the Spanish government on October 15, 1936.

              https://little-histories.org/2017/06/15/spain_gold/
              1. plabu Offline plabu
                plabu 9 November 2019 10: 25
                -1
                So stolen or sent by decision of the Spanish government? If by decision, then this is NOT stolen, so I wrote about this ...
                and as if - what is it about?
                1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
                  Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 9 November 2019 10: 33
                  -2
                  No need to engage in verbiage. The end result for Spain, as a country, is the same.
                  1. plabu Offline plabu
                    plabu 9 November 2019 10: 36
                    -1
                    This is not verbiage, it has a completely DIFFERENT name, whether you like it or not - "legal registration, or support".)
                    And questions to the government of Spain, if they, of course, are.
                    1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
                      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 9 November 2019 10: 39
                      -1
                      Is it like asking for troops to enter Afghanistan? The handwriting seems to be the same.
                      1. plabu Offline plabu
                        plabu 9 November 2019 11: 25
                        -1
                        I’m not a specialist in handwriting, so you have to deal with this yourself, but as for jurisprudence, it’s different, so I don’t need to try to hang noodles on my ears, it still won’t work out ...
                      2. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
                        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 9 November 2019 12: 02
                        -2
                        You - that in the form of 123, that 321, all the time trying to "smear" the "not smeared".
                      3. plabu Offline plabu
                        plabu 9 November 2019 12: 30
                        0
                        Well, if you, and not only you, can, why shouldn’t we, or me?) Have you thought about this? I don’t believe that you didn’t think about it, but 123 you ask these questions yourself, I’m NOT him, but when they try to hang noodles on my ears –– about the fact that everything in Spain was held by our bayonets, about that in Spain ours were robbed and everything that moves there was raped - you tell these tales and not only tell others)) and that the gold was communized, this all applies to the same, however, I already wrote about this, there is nothing more to add. ..
            2. Sake Offline Sake
              Sake (Sake) 9 November 2019 10: 51
              -2
              First, the so-called. the government in Spain kept on Russian bayonets (like the Crimea during the capture and the Donbass today) and they clearly could not object to the gene. Orlov (aka Leib Lazarevich Feldbin) and gave the gold for "storage". They obviously did not know the Russian character!
              Secondly, the USSR "did not want", but then nevertheless agreed to accept the gold for STORAGE, this implies its return to the legal government of Spain in a year, 5 years, 30 years or 100. Not returned, it means stolen!
              1. plabu Offline plabu
                plabu 9 November 2019 11: 28
                +1
                When you, and not only you, were embarrassed that the bayonets - as you wrote, later appeared?)
                And as for the legality of the government, not everything is good either, but what about the return of Russian gold, which has gone a lot, how are things going? That's how ours will be returned, so we will start talking, but NOT BEFORE ...
              2. plabu Offline plabu
                plabu 9 November 2019 13: 23
                -1
                ... gold for STORAGE, this implies its return to the legitimate government of Spain, in a year, 5 years, 30 years or 100. They did not return, it means they stole it!

                - didn’t you write earlier?
                So what year a hundred years storage expire, or maybe a hundred and fifty years, you personally attended the signing of the documents?
          2. Sake Offline Sake
            Sake (Sake) 9 November 2019 10: 39
            -4
            In what way, in the USSR they agreed to accept for storage, but did not return, which means it was stolen! Each new government in Spain demanded / is demanding to return the stolen gold coin, but in the USSR, and now in the Russian Federation, they don’t give back their faces with a brick!
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
                Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 9 November 2019 12: 02
                -2
                So, completely agree. But now we are talking about what kind of gold, about Russian in another article. And what is the relationship, you will also make claims to the Malaysians about the invasion of Napoleon?
                1. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu 9 November 2019 12: 20
                  0
                  I agree with what? With the fact that gold was legally obtained in the USSR? Yes, I agree with this, and what does the Malaysians have to do with it?
                  And about the fact that it would be necessary to return the gold, so I already wrote, no one has given us anything and is not going to do it, here’s an example to show, so we’ll think about giving or not giving ...
                  but not before ...
                  1. Arkharov Offline Arkharov
                    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 9 November 2019 12: 25
                    -1
                    Yes, because here it is about Spanish gold, and you are talking about Russian. Therefore, the conditional Malaysians still have something to do with it.

                    ... no one gave us anything ..

                    And "nobody", who is this? "Nobody" is "nobody". To whom do you have claims and what does Spain have to do with it?
                  2. plabu Offline plabu
                    plabu 9 November 2019 12: 35
                    -1
                    I already wrote to your colleague and comrade-in-arms about "reciprocity" - that's when it will apply to us, then we'll talk ONLY then, and about the return of gold from the Republican government of Spain, BUT not earlier ...
                    PS As for who or to whom claims - look at least in Google, but yourself ...
            2. Sake Offline Sake
              Sake (Sake) 9 November 2019 12: 06
              -1
              If Russian gold is gone, you need to look for it and return it, I have no questions for this, but someone else's need to be returned!
              1. plabu Offline plabu
                plabu 9 November 2019 12: 21
                +1
                That you, and not only you, NOT a lawyer, has been clear for a long time, that’s where there is such a rule - MUTUALITY is called, and after observing this we will talk to us ...
                Not before.
                1. Sake Offline Sake
                  Sake (Sake) 9 November 2019 15: 37
                  -2
                  The theft of gold for the first time by the NKVD, its appropriation by the USSR and reciprocity are two mutually exclusive factors. Theft excludes its return to the true owner.
                2. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu 9 November 2019 16: 24
                  0
                  When you master in practice what logical chains are, what a cause-and-effect relationship is - write, then we will continue to communicate, for the eleventh time repeat the same thing - why do I need such "happiness", you have already been written that legal registration there is, no, again - "theft" (((, how many times will you repeat? and who wrote about RETURN not so long ago?)) didn't you?))) and a hundred years, as it was written by you, has not yet expired. ..
                3. Sake Offline Sake
                  Sake (Sake) 9 November 2019 20: 36
                  -2
                  Do not lie! A thief should sit in jail! Crimes have no statute of limitations! A wise guy was found ....
                4. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu 9 November 2019 21: 13
                  +1
                  About lying - look at yourself first)
                  And what do you think is crimes, exactly what is it, and a hater of the USSR-RF?)
                  PS Definitely not dumber than you)
                5. Sake Offline Sake
                  Sake (Sake) 9 November 2019 22: 45
                  -3
                  A mistake, however, I am not a hater of the USSR / RF, I know the history of my relatives, my village, region, Republic, and this does not give me the right to be proud of the Soviet past! I know that lies, hypocrisy, meanness and aggression were the hallmark of the USSR! The current RF is a worthy successor to the "glorious" conquests of the regime, which was up to its nostrils in the people's blood! I am against those who are trying to "launder" the criminal regime from the bloody past, I am against lies and distortion of facts! As V. Astafiev said,

                  He who praises the past war brings the future war closer!

                  For me, this is an important criterion in assessing historical facts.
                6. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu 9 November 2019 23: 48
                  +2
                  How and what you are against can be clearly seen in your comments, at least those that I came across, and "track" someone personally) - why should I?)) So no matter how you try to refute, it's hard to refute yourself - the last example - your comment on the topic "if it were not for the allies, the USSR would have lost the war" - it WOULD have lost more, yes, BUT they would have won anyway - this was my grandfather told me at the time, he was on the front end, not in Iran, spent the whole war.
                  And about your "wash" - you don't even need to try to ascribe to me what was not, I do not need to wash anything, BUT nothing extra is needed either, like your "communed gold" and raped everything that moves there (yeah, schazz - the same grandfather told how and what kind of attempt to offend the locals, they gave it, no one was going to clatter) ...
                  But about the facts you have - so far I haven’t found anything new in those topics where I happened to intersect, everything is already known, but whether you are proud or not proud is up to you, everyone has their own, and as always, there is something to be proud of, in including the USSR, and there are not the best pages of history, and so ALL countries have practically no exceptions, only reasons to NOT be proud may vary somewhat ...

                  ... I know that lies, hypocrisy, meanness and aggression were the hallmark of the USSR! The current RF is a worthy successor to the "glorious" conquests of the regime, which was up to its nostrils in the people's blood! ...

                  - and why so much pathos, tea, not at the rally)) - I have a different opinion on many points, BUT this is my opinion and I'm not going to impose it on anyone ...
                7. Ravshan Offline Ravshan
                  Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 19: 37
                  -5
                  Quote: 321
                  "If it were not for the allies, the USSR would have lost the war" - it WOULD have lost more, yes, but they would have won anyway.

                  You won’t be able to fight without ammunition and food. But all this was not in the USSR.
                  That is why, on September 24.09.1941, 2, the USSR started a war with the Second World War (people forgot to report this), joining WWXNUMX on the side of the Anglo-Saxons. He contracted to drag chestnuts out of the fire for them for a small fraction.

                  Quote: 321
                  this was what my grandfather told me at the time, he was at the front end, and not in Iran, he spent the whole war.

                  Your grandfather could also tell you not such stories.

                  Quote: 321
                  here everyone has his own, and as everywhere practically there is something to be proud of, including the USSR

                  There, the North Koreans are also proud of their regime. And what is good in it and on what is this pride based?
                  That was about the same in the USSR.
                8. plabu Offline plabu
                  plabu 30 November 2019 20: 23
                  0
                  You still did not understand the essence of my post, this does not surprise ...
                  What could the USSR be proud of, I will definitely NOT discuss with you, and your grandfather told you all the dregs that you got infected with all of your dregs from it?
  • plabu Offline plabu
    plabu 12 November 2019 13: 24
    0
    Your sputtering and terry hatred of everything was practically what was and what is, that in the USSR, in the Russian Federation, I personally really care very little :)
  • Ravshan Offline Ravshan
    Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 19: 17
    -5
    Russians on both sides of the barricades

    Once again, the Bolsheviks and Soviet citizens were called Russian. Which they never were.