Missile shield: can the US escape from “Russian hypersound”?

Feverish gestures to create some kind of “reliable protection against hypersonic Russian missiles” have been made by the United States almost since the moment when the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, very clearly and intelligibly explained to our “friends” the inevitable sad prospects for them in the event of a global armed conflict, and accompanied his words with a demonstration of the latest domestic weapons.




Honestly acknowledge that America’s complete inability to protect fellow citizens from the inevitable and crushing blow of retaliation politicians pride, wounded to the limit, does not give: the Pentagon generals the notorious “uniform honor”, ​​and the big-time military industry corporations are afraid of losing their own superprofits. Here they are all together and trying, as best as they can. What is the result of this? I'll tell you now.

Stop the Russian "hypersound"!


As it became known, just recently, a tender ended in Washington, during which the "grandees" of the military-industrial complex there were striving for the right to become the creators of not just a new missile defense system for the United States, but, specifically, a complex designed to protect the country from hypersonic weapons. The results, however, did not surprise anyone, for they were quite predictable. The United States Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense Agency (MDA) has entered into relevant agreements with Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Raytheon. It was they who were entrusted with the “forging” of the very “shield” that should save the United States from the terrifying “Russian hypersound”. Well, or rather, for now to develop projects for such a shield. It was determined, I must say, not in a hurry - the competition for the development of “systems designed to intercept and destroy aerodynamic and aeroballistic targets with hypersonic speed” was announced by the Pentagon Advanced Defense Engineering Agency (DARPA) in conjunction with the same MDA a year ago - in November 2018. Take your time ...

A characteristic feature of the fairly delayed process was that, in fact, the main technical details of the task, that is, specific requirements for equipment and technologythat the Pentagon wished to receive "at the exit" were absent in the open tender documentation as top secret. Only those companies that, having passed the registration and verification to participate in the competition, were allowed to get acquainted with them. In the same way, no details regarding those systems that are selected for subsequent implementation are completely not advertised. Only the names of development corporations and the big names that they have already given to their future offspring are known. So, Boeing, which has been badly battered recently by the hardships that befell his business, will work on the HYVINT system, Raytheon promises to make the American guardians of the sky happy with a certain SM3-HAWK system, and Lockheed Martin promises to take his mind off the riveting of the all-new F-35s and surprise the world with the Valkyrie complex. Everything is loud, everything is secret.

What do we have? There is nothing!


However, some assumptions as to what exactly corporations will do can still be made. It is worth starting from the revelations of none other than Michael Griffin, US Under Secretary of Defense for Research and Development. At the end of last year, this senior Pentagon official openly stated that the United States currently does not have any of the many components necessary to create any kind of effective protection against "hypersound." According to Griffin, the American missile defense does not have, first of all, the main thing - the ability to provide accurate and complete radar coverage of its own borders and territories adjacent to them. The United States simply does not have radars capable of operating in the long-range viewing mode and monitor the space for tens of thousands of kilometers. Given the speed of hypersonic missiles, their later detection is essentially tantamount to a lack of detection, as such. The satellites of the United States military space group also cannot ensure the fulfillment of this task. The same deplorable situation is observed with the means of destruction of enemy missiles. Not gonna get us...

To solve the problem, if we believe the deputy head of the Pentagon "in science", his department is going to by means of placing in low Earth orbit, in fact, an additional network of new generation surveillance satellites. It is also planned to create fundamentally new interceptor missiles capable of destroying hypersonic targets as far away from their own territory as possible, "catching" them on the cruising section of the flight, at the time of reduced maneuverability. Tasks, as we see, are very difficult and hardly solvable “on the fly,” and the US (where rather big) will fly a pretty penny (sorry, cent). According to data leaked out after the tender, each of the corporations mentioned estimated its research work at almost $ 4.5 million. So then the research! And how it comes to practical implementation ... The appetites of Lockheed Martin, who create the “newest fighters”, which are at their own weight in gold, are well known. According to the terms of the competition, finished projects must be submitted to a strict military court no later than the beginning of May next year. There are only very serious doubts about the way it will be.

We built, built ...


The thing is that just two of the three corporations that won the tender - Boeing and Raytheon, have already "created" a missile defense system for the United States! It’s just that these attempts ended in a complete and extremely expensive fiasco. The Pentagon, by the way, announced the complete closure of this project almost simultaneously with the completion of bidding "for hypersound." The most unpleasant thing is that, in the program that turned out to be completely hopeless, at that time 1.2 billion US taxpayers' money had already been swollen, which, of course, no one would return. After all, they all “went into action” - to develop, again, a “new generation” of missile defense. True, designed to withstand "ordinary" ballistic missiles. Today, the United States has 44 silo-based interceptor missiles that cover them from intercontinental hotels, most of them deployed in Alaska. The War Department almost with a knife at the throat shook out Congress funding to increase the number of missile defense systems until 2023 by another two dozen. And I decided, on my own head, that they must be “improved” and “modernized”.

That's just the money, it seems, fell into the wrong hands. As a result, work on the project was discontinued, as well as its financing. As an official reason for making such a decision, the Pentagon put forward simply a pretty cuteness: the technical problems that its developers faced are so serious that they are either "absolutely insurmountable" or ... Their solution will require sums of such orders that they should be read out Congress does not dare even the bravest of the generals. I can’t resist the malicious question: what, in order to bury ourselves in a kind of epic dead end, you certainly had to throw out a billion dollars or more? Previously did not see?

However, evil languages ​​inevitable in this case say that the “latest developments”, which Raytheon and Boeing tried to foist at the Pentagon for crazy money, were simply hopelessly outdated. And this, again, before the first attempt at their practical implementation. As for attracting by the military all the same “geniuses” from all the same corporations to a new project, which, for sure, will prove even more costly ... Well, as they say, the rich have their own quirks. There is a suspicion that the American army will receive protection from hypersound in the same way as new anti-missiles. All that remains for Washington warriors and politicians to recommend is to buy a large batch of Borjomi from their best friends. It will be the most for this case.
Photos used: https://russiancouncil.ru
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  1. Igor Pavlovich Offline
    Igor Pavlovich (Igor Pavlovich) 5 September 2019 08: 31
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    I read the article and remembered the newspapers "Izvestia" and "TRUTH" of the seventies ... The style of presentation is the same ...
  2. Igor Dogadkin Offline
    Igor Dogadkin (Igor Dogadkin) 5 September 2019 09: 20
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    As part of the hypersonic weapon protection system, Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Raytheon received contracts for the development of anti-missile concepts - Valkyrie Interceptor Terminal Hypersonic Defense, Hypervelocity Interceptor Concept for Hypersonic Weapons and SM-3 Hawk, respectively.

    To ensure the possibility of intercepting hypersonic targets at any point on their trajectory, it is enough to equip a conventional anti-missile with a hypersonic accelerator - to put it on the opposite course! And Russia already has such an accelerator ...
    1. Pishenkov Offline
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 5 September 2019 10: 25
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      To ensure the possibility of intercepting hypersonic targets at any point on their trajectory, it is enough to equip a conventional anti-missile hypersonic accelerator.

      Strange ... if everything is so simple, why are our American "partners" so nervous about this? ... Stick on your accelerator on THAAD or Patriot and that's all ... protection from the terrible Russian hypersound is ready ... Apparently, not quite that is the point. Not to mention the fact that the conversion of anti-missiles into hypersonic ones, even at least on a small part of their flight path, is, in fact, the creation of a new missile in general. And I'm already silent about the detection and measurement of a hypersonic target.
      1. Natan bruk Offline
        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 7 September 2019 16: 11
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        And where did you get the idea that they are so nervous? From articles of cheers-patriotic publications? I’m regularly browsing the leading Western media - I don’t see much nervousness. By the way, in their news bulletins Russia is not at all in the first place at all.
        1. Pishenkov Offline
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 September 2019 23: 39
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          ... and I communicate with NATO officers periodically ... And yet you will not believe it - they are nervous ... And how.
          1. Natan bruk Offline
            Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 8 September 2019 23: 49
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            Where exactly do you “communicate” with NATO officers? On your armored sofa? :)))
            1. Pishenkov Offline
              Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 September 2019 23: 52
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              Well ... there are different places, with some friendly families. wink We jump with some parachutes - I, according to old memory, so as not to get out of shape, and they, some who still serve, should have at least 2-3 jumps a year to maintain epaulets and positions ... it turns out that we jump in some places ... Why not talk ... hi
              1. Natan bruk Offline
                Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 9 September 2019 00: 03
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                It’s clear with you :))) Only your imagination is wretched, Stanislavsky does not approve :)))
            2. Natan bruk Offline
              Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 9 September 2019 00: 01
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              Yes, and if you are so iksperd, what is so super-revolutionary in Russian prodigies? Well, by and large? I wrote below, but I repeat - before Russia had no opportunity to give an unacceptable response to the attack? It has always been, the "Perimeter" has long been on duty, no missile defense can save from a retaliatory strike. An opportunity to launch a preventive nuclear strike with impunity? Nothing of the kind either - in the USA there is a similar system - Operation Looking Glass, no С400 / 500/100500 will save from a massive massive strike by the "Tridents." And the American military-industrial complex thanks you very much - you breathed new life into it and opened up unlimited funding. stronger, because, as you know, while a fat dries, a thin one dies.
              1. Pishenkov Offline
                Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 September 2019 10: 36
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                Stanislavsky died a long time ago; he cannot approve anything, nor can he condemn. But you shouldn’t put yourself in his place - not on that scale, as you can see from communication ... If someone else’s life seems to be fantasy, it’s your business, I completely allow you to envy. laughing I’m on my own existence, well, in kind, it’s a sin to complain, thank God ...
                As for wretchedness, it can be attributed to your pearls, such as "iksperd" or "wunderwaffles", which you are clearly proud of. laughing .
                There was no point in your second comment, nor logic. I didn’t understand what you wanted to say with this ... maybe you can boast that you know the names of some missile systems? Then consider what happened ...
                And the US military-industrial complex is characterized by the fact that life in itself by all means breathes in by itself, which, in fact, is the main purpose of its existence, and not at all the defense of the country.
    2. master2 Offline
      master2 (Zhora) 5 September 2019 21: 36
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      ... Russia already has such an accelerator.

      - What channel of TV did they tell you?
      1. Syoma_67 Offline
        Syoma_67 (Semyon) 5 September 2019 21: 40
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        Probably the Star.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. Port Offline
    Port 5 September 2019 14: 10
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    Quote: Igor Pavlovich
    I read the article and remembered the newspaper "Izvestia" and "TRUTH" of the seventies ... The style of presentation is the same ..

    The reader is also not the first freshness ...
  5. Syoma_67 Offline
    Syoma_67 (Semyon) 5 September 2019 21: 20
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    From the word "hypersound" is already really starting to feel sick. And "America in shock," and "Europe in a panic." The tests have not yet passed, but they have already defeated everyone and put them on their knees.
    1. Pishenkov Offline
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 5 September 2019 23: 39
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      ... Syoma! Wake up! Not only were the tests passed, something even already exists in the troops. "Partners" are not idiots, they are not afraid of cartoons, but of what is already in hardware!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Syoma_67 Offline
        Syoma_67 (Semyon) 7 September 2019 18: 35
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        They’re not afraid of cartoons.

        And who told you that they are afraid? Su-57 is also there, and for a long time, already five, excuse me - three, two crashed.
        1. Pishenkov Offline
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 September 2019 23: 42
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          And why did they fly in Zhukovsky 4? Shaw, fixed it already ???
  6. Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 6 September 2019 22: 56
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    And if in a broad sense, both USA and China have already experienced interception of satellites with oncoming hyper-speed. A year ago, USAA had about 100 of these missiles (they wrote). Moreover, in the Military Review, the T / V / S table was given - a hyper missile hyper only in space, during descent, and without much maneuvering (otherwise it will smear from overloads). And for a counter-missile counter-interception, in theory, you don’t have to fly fast - the target itself flies to you.
    1. Syoma_67 Offline
      Syoma_67 (Semyon) 7 September 2019 18: 51
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      And what about the winged X-51A, which on May 1, 2013 in the United States passed successful tests over the Pacific Ocean. As I understand it, work on it has been ongoing since the early 2000s and has not stopped until today. The Boeing X-43 set a speed record of 11 km / h (Max 850 = 9,6 km / s) on November 3,2, 16. That is, I want to say that the United States has been developing this for a long time, and it is not known what they have achieved. At least neither Obama nor Trump did not talk about this on television, unlike GDP.
      1. Pishenkov Offline
        Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 September 2019 11: 20
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        ... and there’s nothing to tell them about. It would have been so told. This is the Cold War - scare with weapons, and not use it.
        And cartoons about superweapons, by the way, are also an American invention. I still remember the cartoons about the Reagan Star Wars program, it was very impressive then ... only it was so cartoons left. And I see, I learned from this GDP, and at the same time I patrolled the Americans, he showed them exactly what really is ... and they know it.
  7. Natan bruk Offline
    Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 7 September 2019 16: 25
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    Patriots are not aware that, by and large, all of these Russian wunderwaffles do not fundamentally change anything. What, Russia did not have an unacceptable response to the attack? There has always been the same “Perimeter”, a mass salvo is impossible to repulse in principle, no air defense. Maybe Russia has the opportunity to deliver a preventive nuclear strike with impunity? Also nothing like that - the Americans have an analogue of the Perimeter, the Operation Looking Glass system, and the same massive response, for example, from the Trident submarines, is also unable to reflect any S-400/500 / 100500. So, in general , nothing has changed dramatically. But this is not known to the patriots, they have already defeated America and are crowing joyfully :)))
    1. Pishenkov Offline
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 September 2019 23: 46
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      Nathan, for a long time there has been no talk of defeating someone or repelling something. This is unrealistic for both sides. Since the days of the USSR yet. There is the concept of "unacceptable losses" in the event of a conflict, and this stops, and this is the whole arms race. Just now, the Russian Federation has taken a more reasonable and cheaper path. The development of missile defense is a dead end, no matter how successful these systems are, the point is that they won’t intercept everything, and this is enough for balance.
      1. Natan bruk Offline
        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 9 September 2019 00: 06
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        And what, before the balance was not? “Unacceptable losses” in the event of a conflict were guaranteed by both parties a long time ago - a massive blow cannot be repelled in principle. So what exactly did these great and terrible prodigies change dramatically?
        1. Pishenkov Offline
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 September 2019 11: 31
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          The new Russian weapons and the actions of the modernized army of the Russian Federation suddenly sharply reminded the United States and some others that they still have to reckon with Russia on the world stage and take into account its interests. And then until about 2010, in the West, everyone simply believed that the Russians had nothing and would not have, except for the weapons systems remaining from the time of the USSR (such as in Ukraine now). They simply waited for all this to become obsolete, decaying, and decommissioned. Well, that is, a maximum of 2020-2030. and that’s all ... you can "bank in full" ... And then suddenly the "hegemons" suddenly threw such troubles. belay
          1. Natan bruk Offline
            Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 9 September 2019 12: 26
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            And, they just waited until 2030, and then they wanted to attack :))) Thanks, laughed. And now the question is - why should the insidious US even attack? Well, for what purpose? Conquer and then feed 146 million beggars? No “resource bases” are worth it even for purely economic reasons. And for the sake of this, start the 3rd world? Moreover, the United States has quite enough of its resources, as well as those that they buy. Oh, these patriots, unconditionally believing in their propaganda ... In fact, they simply fear you, as few adequate Gopniks fear and take all measures to be ready for any development of events. Spoiler - everything has rolled at its current pace after 2014, and NATO has received a powerful incentive to recover from a long gradual degradation.
            1. Pishenkov Offline
              Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 September 2019 12: 58
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              ... no need to attack. And no war is required. You have approximately 3rd grade student associations. Most of the states of the world are today in a strictly subordinate state to other states, while no one was going to attack them ... I don’t quite understand if there is a sense of some dialogue with you, to be honest ...
              1. Natan bruk Offline
                Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 9 September 2019 16: 45
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                I also don’t understand such a dialogue. That is, when there was nothing to answer on a specific question in essence, you incurred some kind of meaningless set of words that had nothing to do with the question asked. That is, they behaved just not as a third-grade student. So they want to attack Russia or not? After all, local alarmists scream endlessly about the sudden disarming strike that NATO is allegedly preparing. Now it turns out that no one is going to attack anyone. Something like a flight of thought of a young child.
                1. Pishenkov Offline
                  Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 September 2019 16: 59
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                  Dear, you have not asked me specific questions before. Perhaps they asked themselves to answer them themselves. Rhetorical, so to speak. There is such a form of presentation; it was taught at the USSR Party Schools. Today they teach in NGOs to hang noodles on the ears of adolescents and demented adults.
                  I personally am not an alarmist, and I personally did not say anything about any blow, especially from NATO. This is no longer the structure that today can strike a state like the Russian Federation. The United States may, but not NATO. And this is not the same thing.
                  If you are really interested in my opinion on the question that has just been asked just now:

                  So do they want to attack Russia or not?

                  My personal opinion is no, in reality they don’t want to. At least it follows from my experience and communication (in which you do not believe laughing ), and based on the fact that in the USA the situation is not controlled by the insane, but, fortunately, it doesn’t seem like that.
                  Arms race, “hybrid conflicts”, wars on foreign territory and / or with the wrong hands, etc. - this is somewhat different. Is such an answer essentially enough?
                  1. Natan bruk Offline
                    Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 9 September 2019 17: 07
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                    No, not enough. This is not an answer at all. Firstly, the USA is exactly NATO, without them it does not have much value. Secondly, what is the point in the arms race, especially those great and terrible wunderwaffles, and spending trillions? Bust the enemy? So who will ruin whom? Will we recall the Cold War and the torn SMRD? And now this is all the more funny. No, of course, you can still lower the retirement age, increase taxes, and strengthen the "optimization" of health care, but as a result of such a policy, the refrigerator will inevitably defeat the television - Russia, after all, is not DPRK, and the consequences for the authorities will be very dire. Yes, and re-read your posts - at first you claimed that Russia really scared and puzzled the United States, now it turns out that no - because no one is going to seriously attack anyone. You have big problems with logical thinking.
                    1. Natan bruk Offline
                      Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 9 September 2019 17: 16
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                      Therefore, my personal conclusion is that all these wunderwaffles do not have practical meaning in the context of the US-Russia confrontation. But they make a lot of sense for the defense industry of both countries in terms of developing funds. Only now, as has already been said - while the fat dries, the thin one dies. The USSR was much thicker than the modern RF, and further cutting the Russian budget for these wunderwaffles and cutting back on social programs will inevitably end in a social explosion, and no Rosguard will help here. Alas, for the current Russian regime - Russia is not North Korea, and will not be.
                      1. Pishenkov Offline
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 September 2019 17: 35
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                        "Wunderwaffles", this is apparently what you have on your tea plate on a good day, when social programs reach you, remaining from spending on weapons. wink A new weapon is needed just to ensure that no one in a dream would ever think of attacking the Russian Federation. And then, in some historical periods, such thoughts have really arisen among the Americans.
                        I don’t even see the point of commenting on the rest ... negative
                      2. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 10 September 2019 11: 25
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                        Have you not yet developed cognitive dissonance? You just claimed that the Americans were not going to attack Russia. I can only ask again - what, before this “new weapon”, Russia had no opportunity to strike back with unacceptable consequences for the enemy? It has always been argued that it has always been, then what does it radically change? Maybe there was an opportunity to launch a preventive strike with impunity? Nothing of the kind, either - a return volley from submarines, for example, by the Tridents, will lead to the same consequences for Russia. Then what's the point? I never heard the answer. Yes, and about the plate, I’m all right with it, because I live in that very damned West. But the Russians are not so rosy - for some reason, they are very complaining about a sharp deterioration in the quality of life - high cost, falling incomes, pension reform, and "optimization" of health care. And why would they be like that? Or is it in no way related to military spending? Maybe because of the sanctions? So it was said that sanctions are a great blessing, and in no case should they be canceled :)))
                      3. Pishenkov Offline
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 10 September 2019 15: 57
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                        After reading the first sentence with the words "cognitive dissonance", I was already tuned in to something serious, but with all that next, you upset me again. recourse Again porridge, dialogue is definitely useless. It's a pity.
                        Incidentally,

                        ... everything is not so rosy - for some reason they are very complaining about a sharp deterioration in the quality of life - high cost, falling incomes, pension reform, "optimization" of health care ...

                        etc. In my opinion, in the West the majority of the population is exactly the same, and they all complain about the same thing. Or do you live in some other West? The problems are the same. Maybe it’s not the expenditures on armaments, but the concept of building a modern society as such? ... And this concept, by the way, came from the West to the new Russia ... Although it’s me, it’s difficult, it’s too much, apparently, you out with the meaning of "cognitive dissonance" has not yet figured out, judging by the above, but I'm here about the concept of social order ...
                      4. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 10 September 2019 18: 18
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                        So instead of a clear answer, you merged again. I live in the very West, only the problems are completely different, because what is available today in Russia has a very distant relation to modern capitalism. So, not at all the same. For example, no “optimization” is taking place here, but what is happening is exactly the opposite. The thing is that it is in Russia that the human person does not have much value, and people in Russia have long been accustomed to this. In the West, a tenth of what the Russian leadership is doing would be enough to fly from its place to the damn mother. But not in Russia. Alas, these are the consequences of a centuries-old slave life. And now in the kitchens they abusively criticize the authorities, and then they run together to vote for EP. “There is no one else”, “if only there was no war”.
                      5. Pishenkov Offline
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 10 September 2019 18: 39
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                        “The same one” - what is your West? If they don’t reduce the number of medical institutions (optimization), they don’t increase their retirement age and there are not enough pensions for what seemed to be the norm 25 years ago, the standard of living does not drop, no? I do not have particularly accurate information on Australia and New Zealand, maybe you are there, but in Europe and America it all happens, and where are you, if you don’t have all this, and everything is “exactly the opposite”? Or maybe you are on Mars and the economic situation on Earth does not concern you ???
                        I myself personally don’t particularly complain about life, thank God, but I can’t help but notice what is happening around me ...
                      6. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 11 September 2019 08: 35
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                        Maybe this is what is happening in the Czech Republic, but in Israel the number of medical facilities is not reduced, but only increased, the quality of service is improved, and if you worked for a long time at normal work and paid to pension funds, you can live quite decently. At least I know for sure that when I retire, I will not be poor.
                      7. Pishenkov Offline
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 11 September 2019 15: 59
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                        I am very happy for Israel, at least someone, apparently, is doing well. But this is a very specific state, which is in a very specific position, both geographic, military-political and economic. And, of course, you can hardly call this Middle Eastern country "West", in the full sense of the word ...
                      8. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 11 September 2019 16: 30
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                        In full - no, of course, but basically, especially in the striking contrasts of life in the surrounding countries - completely. Yes, and I would not compare the life of the average layman in the "real" West and the same in Russia. I visit there quite often; in Russia I was also not so long ago - 2 years ago.
                      9. Pishenkov Offline
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 11 September 2019 16: 47
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                        Compared to the countries around you, even Venezuela can be considered the West. smile But you have your own specific problems there - you live at the front practically, and the neighbors do not like you very much, and all without exception.
                        Comparing the level and way of life of the Russian Federation and Europe, or the same Israel, of course, is impossible, this is a fact. Your system of life and control is nevertheless really closer to the western one. But I personally think that for the Russian Federation, copying the Western model is a dead end. Not because a good or bad country, but simply not that for the so-called Western system. And this “West" itself, in the absence of a counterweight in the form of the USSR, with which it was constantly necessary to compete, began to rapidly degrade. Over the past 30 years, literally before my eyes, the situation has really worsened, and there is no end in sight. It so happened that I lived and worked a lot in the “real West”, and believe me, the problems you described with medicine, living standards, pensions, etc., are everywhere present, this is a global trend. Ruining the social camp, everyone thought that they would live like in the West during its heyday, but in fact it turned out that the standard of living began to be compared, this is a fact, but in another way - it rose slightly in the East, and fell strongly in the West ... And this, as it turns out, no one expected either there or here ...
                      10. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 11 September 2019 17: 26
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                        Regarding “life on the front,” you repeat the common cliches. In fact, this is not at all the case - the vast majority of the population does not feel it at all. There are aggravations with a neighboring terrorist enclave, but, as a rule, after receiving magic pendels, the local bosses will quieten for a long time. Although, of course, there is a specificity associated with military-political features. And about “they strongly dislike” and “everything without exception” is, in general, the same cliches. Well, for example, the world has been with Egypt for half a century, with Jordan for a quarter of a century. There are diplomatic relations, trade, tourism. Many Arab countries, for example, the monarchies of the Gulf, have constant contacts and cooperate with Israel in the fight against terrorism, and have not considered Israel as an enemy, albeit without official diplomatic relations. Actually, there is only one enemy for Israel and the vast majority of Arab countries - Iran and its satellites, such as Syria and Lebanon, which rendered swearing under the rule of Iranian Hezbollah puppets, as well as terrorist organizations supported by Iran. Recently, the Lebanese president himself complained that he was unable to influence it. So, everything is not quite the same as in common cliches. Well, what about the West - last year I dissected for two weeks in Germany and Poland, and somehow I didn’t notice a particular decline in living standards.No, of course, I need to live there to evaluate, but I have enough classmate friends living in Europe and the USA , Canada - and so, judging by the communication with them, Of course, there are problems there - like migrants, for example, but for people with skilled work, the standard of living is high enough, and it’s imperceptible that it drops.
                      11. Pishenkov Offline
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 11 September 2019 21: 10
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                        Noticeable ... ask your friends how they compare life in their countries, say, the beginning of the 90s and now, I think, the difference is visible to everyone. And migrants in Europe are far from the biggest problem. They travel for decades and a total of millions. The last wave was sharply noticeable, but the total number was really little affected. Nobody would have noticed them especially now, had there not been a general decline in the standard of living, and against this background - a massive entry.
                        And about your Arab neighbors - the fact that they communicate with Israel and do business does not mean that they are positive towards him, this is only a forced situation for them in an unpleasant neighborhood. Do not forget that the last train with Soviet coal crossed the border of the USSR and Germany on June 21, 1941 ... and there were also treaties and neighborly relations. yes
                        You, for sure, understand perfectly well that if Israel hadn’t had a mighty defender in the form of the United States, it would have been no longer on the map ...
                      12. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 12 September 2019 11: 15
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                        On the last point - the same widespread stamp. In the 1948 war, no one helped Israel, the only help was the sale of captured German weapons by Czechoslovakia (with the permission of Stalin, of course). But Stalin had his own reasons for this - the confrontation with England in the BV, he counted on the pro-Soviet orientation of Israel. In the 1967 war, the United States helped Israel a little less than nothing. Neither weapons, nor anything else. But the USSR really helped the united slave armies, I’ll remind you that there were 6. There is no need to talk about the 1973 war - the General Staff of the USSR planned it, comprehensively helped during the war itself, and participated quite well - a bunch of military advisers, pilots, air defense calculations, etc. The United States supplied Israel with weapons, but it was certainly no more, and its quality was not better than the Soviet one. Not a single American soldier fought on the side of Israel and there were no advisers there. And the united Arab armies fought against Israel under Soviet leadership, they even did on this occasion something like a common country (UAR). The defeat of Syrian air defense in Lebanon, which defended Palestinian terrorists there during Operation Peace of Galilee, also occurred without any involvement from the United States. So, your statement is only suitable for those who have no idea about the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Comparison with the pre-war period in the USSR is also incorrect - the world has been with Egypt for half a century, and even the rise of Islamists to power for a while did not shake him, and now there’s nothing to talk about - the current government there is working very well with Israel, in particular in the fight against terror in the Sinai. A similar situation is with Jordan, the world with which is already a quarter century. After all, everyone perfectly understands what they lose if the world ends. And I will tell you a secret - for the vast majority of Arabs, the main enemy is not Israel at all, but present-day Iran. The Shiite-Islamic regime there does not suit them at all, but they get along well with Israel today. And we do not need hot love at all, enough peace and business cooperation. As for my friends - they moved to the West, mainly in the late 90s - early 2000, and judging by the communication with them, no deterioration of life happened during this time.
                      13. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 12 September 2019 11: 31
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                        And we don’t need the fervent love of our neighbors - peace and business cooperation are enough.
                      14. Pishenkov Offline
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 12 September 2019 11: 33
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                        I won’t argue about the details of the history of Israel; I, of course, didn’t study it like you did. One remark - the Czechs themselves claim that they didn’t sell weapons to Israel, but donated them for free, not only the German, which was left with a huge amount on their territory, but their own. About everything else:
                        Nathan, I really respect the state of Israel with great respect, I sincerely believe that it is with you that everyone should take an example in the field of squabbles with terrorists, in science, education, medicine and in relation to one’s own history and national interest. You personally clearly love your country and be proud of it, it’s wonderful. But let's still be realistic. Israel itself would cease to exist around the mid-50s, and it is still unknown if all this would not have ended even worse than the Holocaust of the 40s in Germany and the occupied territories. Your "friendly" neighbors are quite capable of this, and now, by the way ...
                        I was born and raised in the USSR, I still love this country, but I adequately assess the fact that it is no longer there, as well as the fact that all this happened for very real and justified reasons. And to blame for this, including us, residents and citizens.
                        Israel, as a government education, without external financial assistance and protection, is not viable, especially where it is located. Do not, even very loving your country, in the name of patriotism bear nonsense. This, by the way, is now very much loved in the Russian Federation, unfortunately ...
                      15. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 12 September 2019 12: 53
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                        Thank you, of course, for your goodwill, but nevertheless, regarding the fate of Israel, you simply persist in your delusions and precisely because of ignorance of its history (although this is understandable - this was especially useless to you). In the mid-50s, almost no one helped Israel, he survived, in general, alone, and then the times were quite difficult. The United States began to help Israel in the early 70's, when they saw that it was necessary to put on this horse. Even if whose help was real until the 70s, it is the help of the world Jewish diaspora. As for the Czechoslovak weapon, it is alleged in our country that the Czechs sold it, and basically it was just captured German, but I won’t argue. In general, I have a similar attitude towards the USSR, although there are grievances - my father told me how his career was cut off during the “doctors' case” and “the fight against rootless cosmopolitans”. Moreover, my grandfather’s brother, a well-known children's writer, Lev Kvitko, was shot along with the rest of the members of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee as the “Agent of the Joint”. This was after he managed to attract millions of dollars from the American and Canadian Jewish diasporas during the war in the USA and Canada during the war. Such was Stalin's gratitude. So, this is still not nonsense, but simply a knowledge of history and today's realities.
                      16. Pishenkov Offline
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 12 September 2019 13: 36
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                        Delirium from a sense of patriotism, I had in mind about the independence of Israel ... And this is not said to be offended. There is an objective reality whether you like it or not, and if you talk nonsense out of patriotism, it’s rather to the detriment of the state itself and its perception from inside and outside, and this, as I said, is not only about Israel. One can and should be proud of real achievements, and your country has enough of them. No need for pride to plunge into fantasies or outright lies. I also often say this to my Russian colleagues ...

                        ... whose help was real until the 70s, it is the help of the world Jewish diaspora.

                        - and this is external assistance, without which Israel would not even exist, the lion's share of which, if not all, comes from the United States. The states themselves are under the control of this very diaspora, at least for the last 100 years. So, the help of the Jewish diaspora is US help. And, apparently, then it is necessary to start at all with the fact that Israel was created artificially and from abroad. An interesting project, but certainly not independent either then or now. Although now it’s generally hard to say if there is any completely independent and independent country in the world.
                        I don’t know the truth about Czechs and weapons, I just say what the other side presents.
                      17. Natan bruk Offline
                        Natan bruk (Natan Bruk) 12 September 2019 14: 48
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                        Nevertheless, one can argue about artificiality - by and large, Israel began to create the first, second and so on waves of Zionists, starting from the end of the 19th century, and by the time the British mandate ended, it was practically created and functioned as a state. Another thing is that in 1948 it was officially recognized by the UN. This, of course, legitimized him, but even if he was unrecognized, he would continue to exist - there are enough unrecognized territories that somehow manage to exist. Of course, the story would be different. And the help of the diaspora is not at all the same as the help of the state to the state. And independence is also a very relative thing. There is also what to understand by it - for example, many fans of the Juche country repeat the mantra about which North Koreans are independent. Just why - from normal human existence in a large concentration camp, being cut off from the outside world? No one disputes that the United States helps Israel a lot, and especially on the diplomatic front. But Israel’s cooperation with the United States is mutually beneficial, it is financial assistance that goes almost all to the army. Another thing is that there are many different private foundations, etc., but this is already called the ability to live. By the way, Egypt and Jordan also receive huge financial assistance from the United States, but how can life “here” and “there” be compared? Money also needs a head. And even if Israel survived in 50-60 years, practically without anyone’s state aid and protection, at the expense of its forces, the help of the diaspora and largely healthy adventurism, today it will survive for sure, even in the case of a hypothetical cooling of relations with the United States. Although this is very unlikely, the same IPAC will never allow this to be done. To summarize, we can only say that you need to have a head on your shoulders and be able to live, and "independence" is a very relative thing and quite illusive.
                      18. Pishenkov Offline
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 12 September 2019 15: 03
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                        Israel began to create the first, second, and so on waves of Zionists, beginning in the late 19th century

                        - created, created, but did not create ... until the question was decided outside ...
                        And I agree with this:

                        ... independence is a very relative thing and quite illusive.